turbulence we're talking about crashing. when you have a president that every day figures out how he's going to cause trauma, we are in for more than a bumpy ride. we better look at the pilot. >> unfortunately, i agree with you. my thanks to evan, megan, mark, the rev al sharpton, robert, that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" starts right now. hi, chuck. >> hi, nicolle. i hope the weekend can actually -- >> be a weekend? >> for sure. >> have a good one. >> you, too. if it's friday when two presidents took aim at this president, was he listening? good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington and welcome to "mtp daily." it's been a difficult week for a lot of folks in this country. watching a grieving military family become a political football. pretty disgusting. seems we should expect more from

our elected leaders, expect more from the dignity of america's highest office and we should expect more from those who serve that office and all federal offices. especially when it involves grieving military families. more and more feels as if we expect less and less from our democratic system. especially when it leads to the ugliness and gridlock seen this week. during this week of broken politics and crumbling civility we saw alarm bells sounded in a remarkable way. what felt like a coordinated rebuke of this country's current leadership, that point was made using the power of the ex-presidency as president bush did. it was made combining the power of the ex-presidency with the passions of the campaign trail, as president obama did. it was made by a war hero's rallying cry as he's battling a grave illness, as senator mccain did. or you might even say it was made using humor as a vehicle, very serious commentary about the president's behavior as

speaker ryan did, all in the last week. some of that made it clear they were talking about trumpism. some didn't have to. either way, you cannot ignore the warnings they send. for presidents bush and obama and senator mccain, they all spoke in different places and under different circumstances, but they all spoke from the same place about the direction of american politics as it stands right now. >> we've got folks who are deliberately trying to make folks angry. to demonize people who have different ideas. >> some half-baked spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems. >> bigotry seems emboldened. our politics seem more vulnerable to conspiracy theories. and outright fabrication. >> they all spoke from the same place about the lack of morality in american politics. >> bullying and prejudice in our

public life sets a national tone. provides permission for cruelty and bigotry and compromises the more's education of children. the only way to pass along civic values is to first live up to them. >> why are we deliberately trying to misunderstand each other? and be cruel to each other? and put each other down? that -- that's not who we are. >> we have a moral obligation to continue in our just cause and we would bring more than shame on ourselves if we don't. >> and they all spoke from the same place about perhaps most important the lack of american leadership from the top on down. >> we know that when we lose sight of our ideals it is not democracy that has failed. it is the failure of those charged with preserving and protecting democracy. >> we will not thrive in a world where our leadership and ideals

are absent. we wouldn't deserve to. >> if you have to win a campaign by dividing people, you're not going to be able to govern them. you won't be able to unite them later. >> for the record, a spokesperson for president bush says he was not criticizing mr. trump and mccain said he didn't mention president trump because it's the system that's probroke. a little cover to play these down from the ex presidents. >> our understanding those comments were not directed towards the president and in fact when these two individuals both past presidents have criticized the president they've done so by name and very rarely do it without being pretty direct as both of them tend to be. so we'll take them at their word that these actions and comments weren't directed towards the president. >> joined now by nbc news presidential historian michael

boesch lo beschloss. my producer, she put it better than anybody. the ex-presidents broke the code. >> they did break the code. >> they broke the code. >> you know, i think we have to pause for a moment and say how historic this was this week. you've got five living ex-presidents, two of them said, were pretty rough on the current incumbent. you never see that. look at the last 70 years. jimmy carter and the early 1980s was privately grieved over the fact ronald reagan was trying to overturn a lot of what he'd done in office. said almost nothing in public. that's the way it is usually done. the code has been broken. you have to sassume like an intervention by people felt there was nothing else to change it. >> interesting way to put it. intervention. i don't think either one of them -- john mccain spoke before we knew this -- this incident, i

don't know what else -- i can't -- i don't have a good way are describing it, because it's so stomach turning. >> right. >> we politicize this. but both bush and obama used the word "cruel." i think president bush usualed casual cruelty. i think president obama just used cruelty. that's what this whole thing has felt like. >> when in history do are have an ex-president having the groubds to talk -- i know sarah huckabee sanders today said -- >> taking them at their word. >> not about donald trump. let's be real. this was about donald trump. >> the environment. >> the environment he's created and the person he is in lead with. when would have have een the last 70, 80 years ex presidents to have the grounds that they should say something like that. >> but does it matter? i say that because president trump's campaign was running against both bush and obama. ran against bush in the

primaries and bush-ism and obama and obama-ism in the general. so -- we all, i think, know president trump pretty well. look at, criticizing me. >> of course. >> they created these problems that i'm left with. that's how he probably is taking this. >> and will probably say if he ever has to, where this is a badge of pride, shows i'm draining the swamp. shows that -- >> his 37% will say, right on. >> a sign he's doing what he was elected to do. all true. so immediately i don't think we're going to see a drop in his poll ratings next week because barack obama and george w. bush criticized him think ways, but looking ahead a couple of years, it is likely, if donald trump runs as a republican in 2020, which i think is still an open question, it's not impossible he might choose to go independent if he wants to run for re-election. this begins to late the predicate for a john kasich or someone like that to run against

donald trump. >> you're assuming trump-ism loses the civil war in the republican party, though. it could -- they become the republican party and the republican party as you know it becomes a third party. >> or this is 1912. william howard taft, orthodox republican and t.r., theodore roosevelt runs as a progressive. donald trump may feel it's to his advantage to. >> closest of an ex-president so worked up they basically torpedo their successor, which is what t.r. did. >> so upset he ran against the income dent president taft, look what he said against taft, put in the shade by what george w. bush said about donald trump and the people around him and perhaps the environment he's encouraging right now. so looking at any recent historical standard, what we heard yesterday was groundbreaking. >> i guess the last thing i would ask on this front is --

this president doesn't meet with historians in the same way previous presidents do. >> correct. >> do you have a sense that -- does -- does he have a sense of american history? >> no sign of it yet and i've looked hard. >> he says he doesn't read book. i think on one occasion looked at documentaries on video. there is -- >> doesn't read biographies of former presidencies? prior presidents reading this one, this one, this one. >> i would think is a good thing. past presidents guide you. a precedence. a portrait of andrew jackson on the wall of the oval office mainly from steve bannon. i think donald trump knows andrew jackson is on the 20 dollar bill. not sure how much else he knows about andrew jackson aside from the fact he fought against elites and broke a lot of china. small c china. >> well, big c china is on the

docket later this month. michael beschloss, leave it there. thanks. as they say in humor, there's truth. which is what makes last night's roast of president trump by house speaker paul ryan all the more interesting, given this conversation. >> enough with the applause. all right? you sound like the cabinet when donald trump walks in the room. [ laughter ] i know last year that donald trump offended some people. i know his comments according to critics went too far. some said it was unbecoming of a public figure and that his comments were offensive. well -- thank god he's learned his lesson. [ laughter ] >> every morning i wake up in my office and i scroll twitter to see which tweets i'll have to pretend i did not see later on. and when you read the papers tomorrow everyone will report this differently. breitbart's leading with, "ryan slams the president amongst liberal elet's."

"new york times" reporting, "ryan defends the president in a state hillary won." and the president will tweet, "300,000 at smith dinner cheer, mention of my name." >> so add serious and you have the comedy there, but the message may be the same. bring in tonight's panel. michael steele, press secretary for former house speaker john boehner. andrew sullivan, pioneering political blogger writing for "new york" magazine and kimberly adkins for the "boston herald." andrew, you normally sum up a mess like this week in words. but how unprecedented is it to you, obama, bush, mccain, and in a different way paul ryan, all in the same week. this doesn't feel like a coincidence. >> no. it feels like responsible people attempting to notify the world that we do live in an emergency with this president. the vulgarity, the cheapness.

the -- the hostilities of the constitution. all of it is creating a crisis in this country. and it's spawning also its opposite. spawning the kind of tribalism on the left, too. >> yes. >> which is driving the two groups further and further apart and the ability for us to talk to one another with any civility at all, even one to empathize with the other and think about where they're coming from is being vanished. it's vanishing on college campuses, vanishing in the white house, vanishing on twitter, now a massive intimidation machine for people who dare to question the group belief. it's -- it's thuggery and it's a real threat to the norms that make liberty and democracy possibly. >> you worked closely with paul ryan during the vice presidential campaign of 2012. he is hesitant on going public

criticizing the president trump. wasn't hesitant criticizing candidate trump. should we read more into this than humor? >> i think the way to look at this is the massive amount of frustration among republicans on capitol hill. this was a really big, good week for republicans on capitol hill. senate passage of a budget. leading the, paving the way for tax reform. it's a really big deal. this is supposed to be the president's top domestic priority. instead of celebrating that victory, or encouraging republican senators or working on recalcitrant republican senators or getting to work on the next stage of this policy priority, he's in this hopeless, revolting back and forth with the family of a, a slain serviceman and it's awful. >> nobody could take the high ground on this. i was thinking about it, in another era, a congresswoman simply called the chief of staff, heads up. that call didn't work. or by now we would have found out that the president had already called her again to say,

i can't believe -- nobody's taking the high ground. >> it's extraordinary. seems particularly from the white house this insistence their view of this were correct and that seems to be the overall goal here as opposed to remembering that this is about a gold star family. not just one. four gold star families. >> i want to put it up that photo again. this is a pregnant widow. >> yes. >> on that casket, and we -- turned her into a political football. >> it was the most heartbreaking thing. that's honestly, chuck, that video of her grieving over her husband's casket would have been the turning point of this whole conversation and the fact it wasn't is extraordinary. >> andrew, you brought up the point. i do believe that president trump and the congresswoman truly believe what they believe in this. and that's what's scary. they are asoviet unisuming the about the other, automatically. >> seems proving to me that trump tried. just not good at that kind of see.

we see it in every other context and again, you're right. there could have been decent ways to keep quiet, to recommend this and talk about this going up the chain of command. and for a president -- ultimately the president doesn't matter because ultimately he is the head of all this. it's up to him to let things go. >> i was going to say. people say this, you know, a president, hey, remember -- criticizing, president obama needs to go more than 50% of the way when you reach out. presidents have to go more than 50% of the way. no. that's the job of the president. you have to always take the high ground. >> the president is the one figure in our system that's supposed to unite us. even superficially with civility and the usual -- >> even fake it. >> even the nonsense, to say, what we now have is very tribalized society with the president, the top of the tree, actually attempting to divide it further. >> and a whittling away of the

idea there can be facts, universally agreed upon facts of what happened and he's waging all-out assault on that. i was struck by what former president bush said about our children. decades after, the president was always one of the most admired men in america. >> whoever the president s. and number two first lady. >> exactly. >> or sometimes that would be number one, if a president got a little unpopular. >> bough how do you go a child today say the president is worthy of emulation, a role model for you when he ceaselessly carelessly and carefully misleads the country again and again and again? >> i just had hoped that the president or someone in the white house would have urged the president to look at a video of george w. bush at ground zero with his arm around the first responder speaking through a megaphone or after the space shuttle exploded, some moment in the nation's history when the nation needed healing, putting aside everything else and

focusing on that. i still hope someone in the white house does that. i know that's not his strong point but he's got to learn to do something like that. >> he is so psychologically damaged, this man, he's incapable of seeing any situation and seeing another person, from the -- >> let me ask ayou about john kelly. anyone with experiences with general kelly know of him somebody extraordinarily reticent seeing his son used as a political football. it was extraordinary to me he did that. i was surprised that general kelly -- did it surprise some of you? >> of course. i mean, it was -- in a shocking week, one of the most surprising things. >> because you know him, too. we all know of this. >> it's powerful, and it's -- that's the kind of grief and the kind of sacrifice in his life, his career, is the sort of thing we should aspire to. that we should teach children if you live your life right you can ascend to these heights and do great things for your country

and i was struck by his statements about the lack of honor, the lack of award forselves to our country today. >> the president put it out there first. the president mentioned general kelly's son in a radio address first, one of the reasons why general kel hi to go out. >> no, no, no. forced out. no doubt. >> i think he -- he's, along with many other people, who come into contact with trump is, lessles lesser at the end of the week than the beginning. up next, steve bannon's request for a new republican senate and a new republican party. be right back.

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welcome back. in the wake of the hv harvey weinstein, "meet the press" reached out to any u.s. senator with the #metoo stories, comfortable sharing with viewers. senators mccaskill, has rono,

warren add heitkamp had stories to share, powerful example of the prevalence of sexual harass innocent our society. >> when i started out at attorney general, one of the most significant things i wanted to do, change the dynamic of domestic violence and i had an vent speaking, a retired officer talking about what happens to women and what happens when there's violence in the home, and amp i got done, this very, very much older law enforcement official came up to me and pretty much but his finger in my face and said, listen here, men will always beat their wives and you can't stop them. >> i was a very young state legislator in my 20s, i was single and nervous about getting my first bill out of committee. so i cautiously approached the dias, went up to speak to the powerful speaker of the missouri

house of representatives and explained to him the bill i had, and did he have advice for me on how to get it out of committee, and he looked at me and paused and said, did you bring your knee pads? >> usually the males are doing this to women. they should know that this is not appreciated. it's not cute. it's not fun. >> the first women who started the metoo campaign were incredibly brave and inspired the next wave, and in turn, they inspired the next wave and the next wave and the next wave. that's how we make real change. >> much more of those senators powerful stories this sunday on "meet the press." also have exclusive interviews with the senate democratic leader chuck schumer and republican senator lindsey graham. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." we'll be back with more on "mtp daily" in 60 seconds. is that the work of wizards?

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welcome back. steve bannon is on a crusade against the republican establishment. you may have heard about it's declaring war on incumbent republicans and any senator who backs mitch mcconnell as majority leader, he's against them. >> it's an open revolt and it should be. these people hold you in total contempt. their contempt for president trump, their disrespect for president trump, their back biting, back stabbing, bickering. they have sewn the whirlwind. sewnwind and they're going to reap they when wind. >> and president trump first backed bannon's war on gop leaders shucked it, standing shoulder to shoulder with mitch mcconnell and saying he may try

to stop bannon. and called three incumbent republican senators bannon already name checked offering his support if they receive primary challenges. of course, president trump's support didn't keep an appointed incumbent, senator luther strange from losing to a bannon backed roy moore in alabama last month. joining me to talk about how senate politics is shaping up, charlie cook. heavy friday. >> thank you p. >> all right. is his a historical precedence, you sort of have a party in power but having a civil war like this? i'm thinking sort of the democrats in the south in the earth '70s, sort of the -- anything like this? >> i think this is new and the think to remember is that stephen ban' objectives and president trump's objectives are not necessarily the same thing. steve bannon wants to blow up the republican party, wants to drive out the globalists, the

establishment, and put in populists and nationalists. for president trump, the goal, govern the next three or seven years, and i suspect that one of the topics at lunch monday between senator mcconnell and president trump was, senator mcconnell explaining, you may not like us. you might not regret if any of us individually lose re-election, but we are what's between you and impeachment. and that -- losing the majority in the house means handing democrats subpoena power and we're impeachment -- you know, that -- >> wow. you think that the best strategy for mitch mcconnell and paul ryan right now, to keep trump on the sidelines. don't let him get involved play the i card. guys, we're what's standing between you and getting ousted? >> the thing is -- >> that make as dangerous 2018 message? >> beats the alternative. the thing is president trump i think is of limited value with

people that are essentially establishment people. luther strange didn't benefit at all from president trump's endor endorsement. and a trump candidate and non-trump candidate and president trump endorsed the non-trump candidate. >> he endorsed the wrong candidate and his people knew it it just didn't work. it's different from criticizing jeff flake. criticizing dean heller, and now with the bob corker retirement from tennessee, suddenly there's a plausible third seat for democrats to pick up. >> and curious. what steve bannon is doing here with the senate map, which was taking a map that seemed unnavigable for the democrats in the majority, is it possible he's opened up multiple paths here? i look at a state like nebraska. you can't go too far in one direction. a state that will snap back. >> it is. although i don't see the

nebraska, the wyoming, mississippi. i mean -- >> right. >> to me it's nevada. it's arizona, and maybe tennessee. >> alabama at all, by the way? >> skeptical. the fox poll had 42-42. other polls single digits. i think roy moore is the most, the weakest imaginable republican candidate. >> right. >> having said that, it's still alabama. >> right. >> and i think doug james -- doug jones is a pretty good candidate, but close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. i think democrats will get close. whether they can actually win or not, to me the plausible path is tennessee. if phil run. he's really looking at it, i hear. >> big picture, does this drive some republican senators into retirement? that would be the other -- we don't know, and senator corker insists that isn't the reason. i think there's ample evidence he was thinking about this regardless, but he was going to

face a tough primary? >> the thing is, i don't see -- if i put a gun at your head and said, name me the third most likely republican incumbent to lose reelection in any way, shape or form next year, and the after flake and heller -- >> you start -- i don't believe in texas. >> yeah. >> doesn't do t. amend wicker's not -- >> it was tennessee. tennessee with -- >> yeah. the thing is, to me, it's more, if you're a republican member, do i really want to stay here and put up with this anymore? >> what you're seeing in the house is that a trickle? a trickle turning into a steady stream of retirements? i mean -- t. berry struck me, congressman from central ohio, columbus. more of the john kasich school of republicanism, he's bailing to go take another job. how many members are looking for

other work? >> a few. pat teaberry, i think the world of him. the guy the gop triplets. >> you're saying -- >> i've had through going through college -- the thing is he really wanted to run for the u.s. senate and decided, this isn't the right year. >> not the right year. this is not the right year, and -- and -- so i think -- everybody's, going to think what's best for me? because -- things in the republican party are not going -- quite right. ever seen a party in power, members all worry more about themselves surviving a national election? rare. isn't it? >> yeah. but i don't want to sound -- the thing is they feel cut loose. they all feel they're a part of a team, and -- or if they do -- you know, our team is getting undercut day in, day out. >> by the head coach. >> right, right. and mcconnell has to be just

incredibly frustrated. >> charlie cook. always fun. coming up, are we wired for war? can the great conflicts in american history teach us a better way forward? well, documentary film legend ken burns joins me his with insight. this is me

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places where it's been cool, and we've got to go where the enemy takes us. >> welcome back. that was senator lindsey graham after his meeting this amp with defense secretary james mattis. mattis on the hill, tensions increased what exactly happened during @that ambush in niger where four u.s. service member can killed. going to hans nichols. seems the meetings were right after john mccain threatened subpoenas. trying to privately reassure these folks without publicly telling us what's going on. >> reporter: two stories and sort of two missions for mattis, two separate inquiries for mccain. one, the day-to-day what actually happened in niger. there's still a great deal of confusion and frankly mattis might not be able to summon the fact to adequately explain them to mccain. the confusion on the battlefield. the bigger picture, mccain and graham, chuck, realizing this is

part of a greater war and want to know the targeting, what the rules of engagement are. those special forces in niger are basically there on that 2001 authorization for use of military force for a conflict in afghanistan. that's the way the conversation has changed. pretty dramatically by members of the president's own party on capitol hill. chuck? >> hans, i appreciate that. that is something actually i think that's going to come up sunday since i have lindsey graham on 'mae"meet the press." see you then. thanks. up next, my conversation with ken burns. why do you put up with it? believe it or not you actually like what you do. even love it. and today, you can do things you never could before. you're working in millions of places at once with iot sensors. analyzing social data on the cloud to create new designs. and using blockchain to help prevent fraud. so get back to it and do the best work of your life.

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welcome back. more than 40 years since the fall of saigon and americans are struggling to grasp the impact of the vietnam war. recently i talked to a documentary, ten parts, trying to tell the whole story from the colonial period to veterans

coping with their experience after the fighting stopped. not just veterans, on the american side. veterans on the vietnamese side as well. i started asking what the war in vietnam means to americans today. >> the most important event in american history since the second world war. so it is informed so much of how we are now. you could say a good deal of the divisions and the hyperpartisanship we experience today was borne out of those divisions and hyperpartisanship of the vietnam era, but also a thing in which people have, left right, have put themselves in these hardened silos of center based on arguments, not facts. we've enjoyed 40 years, more than 40 years, of extraordinary scholarship about the war that's upended almost everything you think you know. i had to lose all of my baggage in one of the great professional humiliations i've ever had. >> interesting thing to say. because -- >> i grew up in a college town. a high draft number. war and anti-war thing were big,

front and center in my lie gr e growing up and almost everything i thought i knew was wrong. if i asked who the leader of the enemy was you'd say ho chi minh. 1959, marginalized remains the symbol of the revolution to his people and to the world, but there's a hard-liner who's running thing, calling the shots. by '64, ho ob stains on a vote, doesn't agree on an offensive this is planning and plan the tet offensive, big disaster as well and plans the '72 easter disaster, big disaster as well. we don't know his name. our government -- i have a tape of mcnamara saying his name in a conversation, goes right over johnson. johnson doesn't -- early '66. first time he hits the radar screen at least of the higher echelons. imagine if we can't get that straight in our own retelling. not blaming readers, how much more is unknown? >> how would you, if doing civil

war -- the civil war series today, having this fight about confederate memorials. how would you address it? have you thought about it? >> think about it all the time every day. it mains me. the axian in the case of the civil war. exact opposite. we lived until i suggest my series and other things with birth of a nation and gone with the wind, as a generally accepted version of what happened in the civil war, which was that in both films makes the ku klux klan the first domestic terrorist organization the heroes. it's upside-down backwards history and it was time to do that. end of the civil war series, 27 years old now -- >> amazing to me. >> there is a professor -- >> haven't aged a day. >> i feel i have. a professor barbara fields from columbia university says the civil war is still going on. not only still going on, it can still be lost.

regrettably. >> ever resolve that? talking resolve wars? haven't resolved this. >> the question of race. monuments, it's a big deal and have to understand it. first thing is just check the date whf that monument went up. if it's the 1880s and '90s, take it down. south and my heritage, remember in an 1861 9 million in the south. 4 million are slaves. they are not interested nor are their descendants in monuments to the confederacy a disloyal thing. remember, the confederacy is responsible for more loyal american deaths than hitler or toecho. we're celebrating who our government considered traitors. never recognized united states of america. the official name of the united states government what we call the civil war was the war of rebellion. suppressing a rebellion. so there's lots of monuments put's them and at that point the dixie flag, not the flag of the confederacy but one battle flag of northern virginia went into

mississippi. then it went into all of the other flags in the south in 1954. what happened in 1954, chuck, that would have caused them -- to have a reactive thing to suggest -- >> supreme court decision. >> supreme court decision that triggered the white supremacists. this is not talking about taking away our heritage. as americans we need to stop the dialectic about it and realize we can expand. charleston understands this. this was this lily white city that was tourism for the antebellum stuff, included african-americans, thriving as ever pull. pull back the camera, we're not cutting out of your history but just a positive includes others. don't want to portray blacks as passive bystanders to the civil war but active dedicated self-sek fising soldiers in another war of self-liberation. it's a good story. add it on as in the vietnam war. why just americans arguing with each other about what really

happened? ask a north vietnamese soldier, civilian, hear from a vietcong guerrilla? >> then you humanize everybody, what happens then? >> i hope somewhere along the line, i don't think it will happen, skip to the middle of episode ten and get to the reconciliation part right way. you know what i mean? what you want to have happen. what you want. you study war so that maybe against the huge rush of human nature, that we would actually stop and say we're not going to do this. let's figure out a way to solve it short of the, the firing of guns. >> that was part of my conversation with ken burns. we got into a lot more depth on his 18-hour documentary, the vietnam war and talked about what projects he working on next and what projects i want to work on next. hear the entire conversation on

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welcome back. tonight iobsessed with lack of love shown to a group of men play for a team used to be called the colt 45s.

you may know them as the astros. last night the team of my child hd and my father's beat the cubs winning the national league pennant world series for the dodgers. 29 years. who will they play? right now the new york yankees lead the astros three games to two. game six tonight. everyone apparently in the media just assumes the yankees will win. more than that, the media is dying for a yankees/dodgers world series. you want to know why? the astros -- one. yankees/dodgers has memories. mickey mantle, jackie robinson, whitey ford. sammy koufax. reggie jackson, cheated in the world series, steve garvey. the astros, haven't even won a world series game. yankees/dodgers has star power. new york, l.a., east coast, west coast. biggest tv market. second biggest tv market. houston, number ten.

but, please, give the' stros some love. down 3-2, but nine other teams came back from 3-2 and worse in the playoffs. before we start hearing competing versions of "new york, new york" or "i love la" wait for the games to be played. a famous yankee once said, it ain't over til it's over.

♪ welcome back, time for the panel that's back, michael steele, kimberly atkins. you brought up earlier, hey this week the republicans should have been happy, right, because of tax reform. but there is another issue here that i think will derail tax reform, and that's health care. i guess i'm curious, michael steele, can the party move on with tax reform with this in limbo? >> yes, look, i was there for --

i don't know 54 of the 67 votes to repeal, partially repeal, de-fund, replace, obamacare. we need a pause. we need a time for the impact of what the president is doing to begin to be understood properly. we need a time for people to find areas of probably at this point bipartisan agreement on the path forward on health care. and that can best be acome plished out of the spotlight. you need these conversations not to be center stage in order for them to be successful. >> michael is talking about what i call normal dysfunction, andrew, i don't know if normal dysfunction works in washington anymore. >> yeah. you talk about the tax cuts. and i ask myself, you know, jobless employment claims were the lowest since 1973. there is some argument for a stimulus or for increasing the debt when you are in a hole. when you are actually the labor

market is at its peak, what exactly is the argument for these tax cuts? what is it? is it we want to increase social inequality in this country? we're giving all the more money to the top 1% as if that's going to help the society keep together. is it we don't have a big enough debt? they're doing it because it's something to, do there is no argument. no rational. it's a symbol for the republicans to say we can do something, even though it will greatly damage the social exact of this country and will explode the debt, something they were incredibly engaged on only until yesterday. >> i could not disagree gree more. i think if you talk to families across the country, middle class families are hurting, they have doing more with less. they haven't gotten a real raise in ten years. the some amount of relief. >> what about the extreme wealthy? >> we need to increase jobs and middle class families is the

only thing that will get the economy -- >> it's imploekd. they are not. >> that's an excellent description of the unified framework. >> it is almost directed and benefits will go to the top 2 as if. >> you are talking the individual side, not the corporate side only. >> do you genuinely believe? >> i believe in doubling the stand deduction, increasing the tax credit, giving companies paying the highest tax rate in the world a lower tax rate to try to bring jobs back to this country and increase the wages of people that work here, i think that's a good thing. >> i will pause, for one reason, you described a narrowing version that's not the larger plan. he just described the only version i think has a shot at passing, targeted middle cut tax cut, corporate rates comes down a bit, they wash their hands and walk away. >> oh, yes. tax reform. >> you were debating it's a larger thing, i don't know they can do it.

>> broad tax reform is one of the toughest things to do politically. >> as we found out. >> the benefits, if we're talking about the benefit toss wealthy individuals, we're talking going from 39% to 35%. >> state tax is no small thing. >> that's a little different for most small businesses and farms. >> for a minute, we were talking about intangible things and tangible. snug more tangible than the american people is health care. they understand a sick person and having medical bills pile up mean much more than the estate taxes will help them or not. that's why i find it extraordinary this short-term fix to shore up the health care market is something that is probably the politically toughest thing for lawmakers to do right now. there what's the penalty if they don't do this? >> people's health care. >> the republican party own breaking health care? >> no, because the system that currently exists was created by obamacare. >> you think you canclaim blame the democrats, not the republicans? >> it should be people if part

fear health and security because of the economic insecurity and getting them a little extra money so they don't feel like they're paycheck to paycheck, worried about breaking a leg and not paying hospital bills will help. >> if people were proposing a real middle class tax cut or increase in the itc, that is one thing, that is not what is being proposed. >> all right. i have to pause. here's the problem, we don't have the details. that's something we're all missing. all right. we'll be right back. ( ♪ ) ♪ one is the only number

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in case you missed it, it was 44 years ago today that president nixon set into motion what became known as the saturday night massacre. and if i had more time, i'd lead you through it, but basically with the firing of an independence council. that's all we have tonight. we will be back on monday and if it's sunday it's "meet the press." "the beat" with ari. >> no, sir, we will watch on sunday. thank you, chuck. it is friday night the news coming out of the white house is a red alert moment. this is not atweets or feud, trump's chief of staff john kelly was busted for misleading claims and your government responded by saying he cannot be questioned because he is a general. >> you want to go after general kelly, that's up to you, but i think if you want to get into a debate with a four-star marine general,