employee who did it on the em employee's last day, and we are conducting a full internal revi review. and thank you for joining us from our headquarters in new york, i'm ali velshi in for a ailing brian williams. thank you. chuck schumer, the top democrat in the united states senate is going to be joining us here live for the interview tonight. i'm very much looking forward to that. a and in 2014, a longstanding well respected democrat senator from iowa, tom harkin retire and eventually his seat went to republican joni ernst, but because everybody knew that 2014 would be a good year for the republicans and the republicas s knew that tom harkin's senate seat was a good chance at a republican peckup in 2014, it end ended up being a big and aggressive primary fought on the republican side to see who would

be the republican competing for that seat that year. and joni ernst ended up winning the seat, and one of the people that she ran against in the senate seat primary in 2014 was a locally well known conservative radio host. and in march 2014, during that primary, that talk show host did an interview with the radio iowa and the content of the interview stuck out at the time and i will explain why, but it sticks out a lot now in retrospect three years later given with what ultimately became of that candidate. now, i say it stuck out a little bit at the time because at the time of this radio interview in 2014, russia had just invaded ukraine. they'd taken crimea from ukraine. and at that time, 2014 in mainstream american politics, nobody in either major party was particularly soft on russia, but particularly in a republican primary in a state like iowa,

you'd actually expect all the candidates to be pretty aggressively hawkish on russia, particularly after russia had just invaded one of their neighbors. but it was interesting. in that senate primary, that republican senate primary in 2014, this one primary candidate, the local talk radio host, he really went the other way. he called himself a former pentagon expert on russia and he told radio iowa that, quote, pushing the russians out of crimea is not a realistic option. he said, quote, i think a lot of people, i'm not sure they understand the history of russia. you go back, you know, 1,500 years to the foundation of the russian empire. it actually started in ukraine and was evolved out of that. this whole issue is about as russian as it gets, meaning russia should be allowed to take parts of ukraine. that's russia's business, not anybody else's. and this candidate apparently felt pretty passionately about it. he went on in some detail,

saying, quote, crimea is mostly russia speakers -- i think he means russian speakers. crimea is mostly russian speakers. ukraine has been part of the russian sphere of influence for centuries, i really think this is just the flexing of muscles and the expansion of the russian empire. this is really historically the kind of thing russia ought to be able to do. what did he call it? the expansion of the russian empire back to more traditional historic borders. why not reestablish the russian empire. right? besides, if we did want to raise a stink about it, there's no reason to think we'd have any

power to do so anyway. he said, quote, economic and diplomatic sanctions won't work against russia. so let russia have it. i mean, so that stuck out a little bit, right, in 2014. that's an unusually pro-russia, detailed, pro-russia stance to be taking in american politics in a republican primary in 2014, this is not at a time when the attitudes toward russia had a big spotlight on them in mainstream american politics. so that interview stood out a little bit, but ultimately, e doubt that interview had much to do it when that candidate lost that senate primary, but he did lose that senate primary and in the end, joni ernst ended up winning that seat in the senate. and that radio talk show host who had given that really pro russia interview to let them to

keep ukraine, because it is p t pretty much theirs anyway went back to being a radio a talk show host in 2014. he billed himself as an expert on the soviet military operations. he went back to being a radio talk show host, and his name is sam clovis, and he lost that primary in 2014. in 2015, he started to run rick perry's iowa campaign and that ended up to be a short job. and then in 2016, he ended up joining the donald trump for president campaign. sam clovis was the co-chair for the trump campaign, and top policy official, and weird are russia stuff kept following him around. when "the wall street journal" reported earlier in the year about a republican operative peter smith with the effort to contact foreign hackers and specifically russian hackers to try to get hillary clinton's

e-mail, he claimed that he was working with retired general mike flynn from the campaign and he described mike flynn as not only aware of, but supportive of trying to find the russian hackers to obtain stolen docume documents from the democrats. but in contact with the contact with flynn, he was also in contact with sam clovis from the trump campaign on that operation are. now, as far as i know, sam clovis has never had to answer any questions as to his alleged role in peter smith's project to try to work with the russians to help trump and hurt clinton during the campaign, but, like i say, weird russia stuff follows sam clovis around. sam clovis is also credited, if that's the right word, with bringing on to the trump campaign, carter page, who traveled to moscow during the campaign, who said he informed attorney general jeff sessions he was going to moscow during the campaign.

carter page also turns up in the indictment of a russian spy ring that was discovered operating out of new york city russian bank branch. sam clovis is credited with bringing carter page on to the trump campaign and also credited with bringing on to the campaign george papadopoulos, who has now become quite famous for lying with the fbi about his contacts with russia during the trump campaign. in the plea agreement revealed by a federal judge on monday, it was apparently sam clovis who was george papadopoulos' supervisor who told him he was doing great work when he initiated and maintained contact with russian resources. when george papadopoulos suggested that there be an off-the-record meeting between trump campaign personnel and russian officials up to and including people from putin's

office, sam clovis is reportedly the campaign supervisor who encouraged george papadopoulos to take that trip. well, now we've learned that clovis has not only spoken to investigators on the russia investigation, we've learned that sam clovis is also now reportedly testified to the grand jury in the mueller investigation. now, this happened while sam clovis was working in the trump administration. and apparently tonight he remains the white house liaison to the u.s. department of agriculture, which is apparently a job. despite his ongoing white house role, abc news reports tonight that the white house had no idea that this senior figure from the trump campaign, national co-chair of the trump campaign, the top policy official on the trump campaign, this guy who is currently an administration official working for the trump administration, apparently the white house had no idea that he testified to the grand jury until they read about it in the

press this week, which presumably means they have not been advised as to whether or not sam clovis sought immunity in exchange for his grand jury testimony. and just based on that plea agreement that's just been unsealed regarding george papadopoulos, i mean, clovis as papadopoulos's campaign supervisor, he has obvious exposure to matters that the special counsel is investigating. for example in the plea agreement, papadopoulos said that he was advised by his russian contacts that they had dirt on hillary clinton and that they had thousands of e-mails. it doesn't say anywhere in the plea agreement whether or not papadopoulos tried to obtain that dirt from the russians or those thousands of e-mails. it also doesn't say in the plea agreement if he told his superiors on the trump campaign that the russians told him they had dirt on clinton and thousands of e-mails. it doesn't say whether he ever tried to arrange any exchange or delivery of information from his russian sources up the chain of

command on the trump campaign. but we do know that sam clovis was his campaign supervisor and we do know from the plea agreement and papadopoulos's guilty plea that he did have those conversations with the russians and he was in frequent contact with the trump campaign, including his supervisor, sam clovis, about the fact that he was talking to the russians. so, i mean, you want to ask, right, you want to ask what, you know, what papadopoulos's supervisor heard from george. hey, what did george tell you about his russia contacts? his supervisor was sam clovis and sam clovis was due to be in a senate nomination hearing, one week from today, because the trump administration nominated him to be the top scientist in that department, despite he is not a sicientist.

at that hearing, democrats already started to signal they had things to ask him about besides his lack of scientific credentials and his potential role at the department of agriculture. senator patrick leahy, a quote, member of the agricultural committee said he planned to ask sam clovis about the efforts of george papadopoulos to the acquire stolen e-mails from the russians. of course you would ask him that under oath in front of the united states senates about this the kid who, hey, he just reported to the trump cam tain and plead guilty under the mueller investigation. can we ask you what he was going to tell you? and knowing that is the character of the nomination next week and apparently the news that he started to talk to mueller's investigation, and to the grand jury without ever notify i notifying the white house that he was doing so, today, clovis's nomination for the agricultural

job was yanked. i will post the old interview from iowa tonight at mad doe. -- maddow.com. sam clovis representing himself as a pentagon expert on russia and on the soviet military. that was how he portrayed himself in iowa in 2014 when he was running for senate. but the collapse of his nomination and these revelations about clovis' involvement with the special counsel's office and the grand jury, that's just one of like a million fascinating things that happened today. this is one of those days when any one of these things would have been a blockbuster story. today we have the court hearing for campaign manager paul manafort and rick gates. at least until next week, we know that manafort and gates will be continued to be confined to their homes.

we didn't know this before now, but apparently not just manafort, but both of them are subjected to electron theic monitoring devices while they are being held in their homes. and rick gates now, he does have a lawyer. manafort's associate rick gates was represented by a public defender at the initial ar arrest and court hearing. he has now picked up expensive lawyers of his own, like paul manafort has. i have to tell you, paul manafort's expensive lawyers appear to be having some trouble already in this case. the judge today harshly criticized paul manafort's lawyer for having spoken to reporters on the courthouse steps after monday's indictment. she asked, in fact, for arguments from the prosecution and the from the defense as to whether she should institute a gag order now that prevents either side from making any

further statements outside of the courtroom, because she was so annoy ed of what he said to e reporters on monday. gates' lawyers and manafort's lawyers both submitted requests to the court today that the terms of confinement for manafort and gates be loosened. there again, problems for manafort's lawyer. the judge criticized manafort's lawyer for submitting his argument that his house arrest should be loosened and criticized him for not submitting that argument as a formal motion to the court. so manafort's lawyer today had to issue an apology in court for the inappropriate form of his application on his client's behalf. the judge appeared to not be impressed by the apology, told him to turn around and refile in proper form tonight. okay. we got to see today filings that included repeated misspellings of the word cypress.

remember how he had all of those accounts in cypress and the words there on the left-hand side of the screen, cypress and that is the ending of the country ends in u-s and that is the way that manafort's lawyer spelled it throughout the brief. c-y-p-r-e-s-s is the tree, and cyprus is where your client held the millions of dollars without telling the irs. tree-trouble. tree-trouble. the judge today indicated that the trial for manafort and gates may start in april. she also indicated she's not inclined to release either manafort or gates from home confinement or lower the terms of their bail or set them free from their electronic monitoring devices. the judge said in court today that their charges are significant, their ties abroad are significant and she said, quote, i have concerns about flight.

shortly after that court hearing broke up today, cnn broke this news about senior white house adviser and presidential son-in-law jared kushner that he has turned over documents to special counsel robert mueller's office. we don't know if jared kushner has testified to mueller's inquiry but according to cnn, mueller's investigators have expressed interest in kushner as part of its probe into meddling including potential obstruction of justice in the firing fbi director james comey and also sources telling cnn that, quote, others have asked about jared cu kushner's role in firing james comey." and also, a statement was issued from donald trump jr. at trump tower with a meeting involving donald, jr., and paul manafort and a whole bunch of russian, and also, cnn asked about

circumstances surrounding the e departure of other white house aides. why those would be related to obstruction of justice or any other potential criminal matter, i don't know. but they're asking about jared and other people leaving the white house? no idea what any of that is about. but if cnn's right and those inquiries are being made by the special counsel's office, that would indicate at the very least that mueller's investigators aren't just looking at things that happened during the campaign. they really are pursuing matters that occurred after the inauguration once trump was sworn in, actions by white house officials. and they're not just looking at people who used to be white house officials and they're now gone, they're looking at people who are currently in senior positions in the trump administration. and that brings us to what i think is probably the biggest uh-oh in the news today for the trump administration, which is attorney general jeff sessions. part of the reason that presidential son-in-law jared kushner has been in interest in

terms of the potential contacts between the trump campaign and russia is because kushner has appare apparently tried to conceal those ties, conceal a number of contact contacts he had with are russian officials, his still-unexplained-meeting with an ambassador close to putin. he left all those contacts with russian officials off his security clearance. attorney general jeff sessions, he was also secretive and concealing about his own meetings with russians and about his knowledge of other trump campaign officials meeting are russians. but the problem for jeff sessions is that unlike jared kushner, he didn't just do it on a security clearance application. jeff sessions did it repeatedly under oath. >> if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the trump campaign communicated with the russian government in the course

of this campaign, what will you do? >> senator franken, i'm not aware of any of those activities. i have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and i did not have communications with the russians and i'm unable to comment on it. >> that was under oath. then senator jeff sessions during his confirmation hearings to become attorney general telling the senate he didn't have communications with russians during the campaign. it was later reported that senator sessions did have communications with russians during the campaign. when that emerged in march, senator sessions at first continued to deny it, then he admitted it while recusing himself while overseeing any justice department matters involving the campaign but still insisted these meetings that he did take with russians that he'd forgotten about, he still insisted they weren't about the campaign. >> let me be clear -- i never had meetings with russian

operatives or russian intermediaries about the trump campaign. >> senator sessions later appeared before the senate intelligence committee and whittled that denial down a little further, admitting, okay, he might have had conversations with russians in which they did discuss the campaign but when he was meeting with russians and talking about the campaign with them, he wasn't talking about russians interfering in the campaign. >> i have never met with or had any conversation with any russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election in the united states. further, i have no knowledge of any such conversations by anyone connected to the trump campaign. >> that, too, was under oath. now, though, in the plea agreement just unsealed involving trump campaign adviser george papadopoulos, the government asserts and papadopoulos affirms that it's

true that not only did he as part of the trump campaign have contacts with the russian government while he was working with the campaign, those conversations really were about the russians interfering in the campaign. by collecting dirt on hillary clinton and obtaining thousands of e-mail. papadopoulos asserts in a meeting during the campaign, which is pictured on the president's instagram account, papadopoulos told that national security meeting at which trump was present, and it was a group being chaired by jeff sessions, papadopoulos says he told that meeting that day that he was in contact with the russian government and was in a position to link the trump campaign up with the putin government, including for high-level meeting. the attorney general was there

for that meeting, clearly. you see him on the left side of your screen. he said papadopoulos did raise that issue that that meeting with jeff sessions there but nevertheless repeatedly under oath, including just a couple of weeks ago, sessions insisted that nothing like that ever happened. he never heard of it happening and it certainly didn't involve him. >> was that what you're saying that you don't believe that surrogates from the trump campaign had communications with the russians, is that what you're saying? >> i did not and i'm not aware of anyone else that did. and i don't believe it happened but -- >> and you don't believe it now. >> i don't believe it happened. >> okay, so -- >> whatever you think of the power of the united states congress and specifically the united states senate and whatever you think of how they are doing their jobs right now, the senate does confirm people for major jobs in any administration and that means that they get people under oath answering questions, and that means that they get the people back to answer further questions when they need to. senator al franken sent jeff sessions an eight-page letter

today having him explain an alarming pattern of the nation's top law enforcement officer apparently failed to tell the truth about the trump's contact with agents of russia. and senator leahy said "attorney general sessions needs to come back before the senate judiciary committee. the description of the march 2016 trump campaign meeting contained in unsealed documents is impossible to reconcile with the attorney general's appearance before the judiciary committee just two weeks ago. he now needs to come back before the committee in person and under oath to explain why he cannot seem to provide truthful, complete answers to these important and relevant questions. i have to be honest with you. when i think about public service jobs being a united states senator mostly does not sound like a fun job, but right now democratic senators are absolutely pinning the attorney general to the wall on this. and he appears unable to get away from them. and as such, that is starting to

feel like a pretty powerful job, to be a u.s. senator in this context. top democrat in the u.s. senate, chuck schumer joins us live coming up. ♪ ♪ for those who know what they're really building. always unstoppable. we create machines that make every experience more intense and real. with intel core processors and geforce gtx graphics so powerful they can redefine reality.

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joining us now for the interview tonight is the top democrat in the united states senate, senator chuck schumer of new york. thank you for being here. >> good evening. good to be here. >> a whole bunch of things i want to ask you about. >> oh yes. >> you're in my clutches. i want to ask you about the republican tax plan that was unveil ed unveiled today and the context that the president sipgled you out for in the wake of the t terror attack in new york this week and i want to ask you about something that has been unfolding over to the course of the day which is a couple of senators in your caucus and a kocoup ol of senators as well expressing real concern about the attorney general.

senator sessions said that he came under fire about the subject of russia in his confirmation hearing. senators leahy and franken from minnesota say they want jeff sessions to clarify what they say are false statements from him in the campaign. >> from what i've seen, i saw it in the car when i got off the plane. it seems serious. i think they are exactly right. senator sessions should come back before them. they had asked him questions in the past, and they were not sure they got straight answer, and now it seems that some of the facts that the we have seen, seem to make it more serious. he has an obligation to come back. >> he has, and his answers on this matter have evolved over time. initially, he said that he personally had no contacts with the russians in the campaign. >> right. >> and he later admitted that is

true, but they were not discussions about the campaign and maybe they were discussions about the campaign, but not interference, and then he elaborated and saying that he knew of nobody having contacts with the russians and that is false in terms of what other people were admitted and it was false under oath. >> yes, it is serious stuff. >> what is the remedy when an official like the attorney general -- >> well, perm ri is a very careful standard, but it is something that would be looked at. i have not seen, but i have heard second-hand what has been reported, but i want to see all of the facts before coming to the judgment, but it is serious enough to see a cursory description of what he talked the about. i agree with franken and leahy that he has to come back. >> what is your reaction no the unveiling of the guilty plea of the other trump officials? >> obviously, when donald trump says collusion with russia is or is fake news, it is clear ly no. here you have one of the best prosecutors in the land who has

shown at least the campaign official involved with russia. heavy indictments of top campaign officials with all kinds of financial problem, a sond so this is serious, and so, look, this is going to have to go forward unimpeded and no one, no one should put any barriers in mueller's way whether it be shutting the investigation down which would be horrible, and curtailing his funding or diverting him to something that is not what he wants to do. he ought to have complete freedom, and if god forbid he is interfered with, i think that the congress has to come together together. it is going to be the ultimate test of our republican colleagues, because rule of law is paramount in america. and interference with mueller's investigation would violate that principle because no person, even the president of the united states, is not above the law. >> we're seeing a real concerted

full court press on the part of the conservative media, and not just on -- with our friends at the fox news channel but also in "the wall street journal" editorial page, "new york post" and a lot of murdoch properties -- >> but the hard right, as usual, they are well organized and they all sing from the same hymnal. i don't know how that happens but they do. they are one, trying to divert attention away from the investigation. that's futile. this is a serious investigation with indictments behind them and real facts behind the investigation by a professional prosecutor. they are not going to be able to do that. the second may be to try to steer things off course. that would be -- if there were actions by the president, anyone in the administration, even the congress to steer things off course, that would be really serious. >> do you believe if the president took action to fire robert mueller or to otherwise try to impede the investigation or block -- or knock it off course, do you have confidence that your republican colleagues in the senate would stand -- >> they're very afraid of the

hard right but this is so serious and i've talked to some of my colleagues privately, that i'm hopeful that they would join us and we could by law set up an independent counsel law and restore mueller to the job. >> there are reports tonight from the associated press that the mueller investigation -- and again the mueller investigation is not very leaky and reports don't always -- >> he's such a pro. no one even knew about a lot of this stuff until it happened. he's a pro all the way through. they can't say a bad thing about him. >> well, they do. >> they can't say a legitimate bad thing about him. >> the associated press tonight reports an emerging target of the investigation or focus of the investigation may be not just people associated with the trump campaign but people who they may have on the hook for violations of the foreign agent registration act, including prominent democratic firm the podesta group and the mercury

group, led by a former republican congressman named vin weber. if the mueller effort is going to start really going after people for foreign agent registration and it is going to start ensnaring lobbying groups and other people well outside the trump campaign, is that an appropriate use of -- >> well, i'm not going to speculate until i would see more facts. >> okay. >> you don't know what the relationships are, the interlocking relationships. maybe it is related, maybe it isn't related. i think it's safe not to comment on this until you saw some real facts. >> let me ask you about the popular perception that whatever people think of the mueller investigation and however safe we think it is -- >> i saw a poll today that the public thinks he's doing the right thing. it's 2-1 it said in the newspaper. >> there is an increasingly widespread perception and reporting that the congressional

investigations are off course, that both in the house and in the senate things have become partisan, divided, no hope for any real investigation and let alone a bipartisan investigation. >> i talk at length to the mark warner and to adam shif, and if they feel that it does go off course, and they feel that they have some success to steer it back to course, and the things that has done this week looking at the social media and the russian involvement in social media was a positive step in revealing some of the bad things going on. >> do you think that in the intelligence committee or the judiciary committee in the senate that we may end up with the democratic reports and the republican reports -- >> i hope not. look, both republican leaders have gone off course at times but then -- and particularly in the senate, warner has brought them back.

so i think we have to have a little patience. is it going as smoothly or as quickly as i would like? no. but would i write it off and say, oh, it's going to be hopeless? no. >> i know you want to talk about taxes. >> yes, i do! >> i can see it in your eyes. i also want to ask you about this fight that the president picked with you on a very auspicious occasion this week. we'll be right back with chuck schumer. top democrat in the united states senate. stay with us. ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. (dad) she's all yours. (vo) but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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>> the bill is so warped toward the wealthy and big corporations and they want to do so much,

it's greed, that they have real trouble and they're stuck. on the one hand to pay for the tax breaks for the wealthiest and the biggest corporations who doesn't pay a 35% actual tax. the top thousand i believe it is pay 16%. >> hmm. >> but that they are stuck. they have to eliminate deductions that the middle class needs. that's very unpopular and it's unpopular particularly in their district, sort of middle class, upper middle class suburban districts. if they eliminate them, the deficit goes up and there are a handful of republicans still in the senate who believe in reducing the deficit. the hard right, total phoniness and fraudulent and we are against the deficits when president obama wants to spend money, but now huge tax cuts to raise the deficits much greater, and that is perfectly okay.

>> do you think that -- >> i think that they have a rough road to hoe and we will stop them for two reasons, rachel. one, we have two big problems in america. one is income mall distribution and the top is earning so much, and he this is going to make it even worse, even worse, and second, the only way that we can get the middle-class people and the people trying to get into the middle-class out of doing better and keeping those who are there in it, and getting those up is government. it is education. it is road building, and it is scientific research, and if you create deficits like this, it is all going to be decimated and they might have to cut medicare and medicaid. >> and so when you say that they are not going to be able to pass it, they could pass it with their own votes. >> and they could, and yes, they have rejected any bipartisanship, and we could do some bipartisan thing, and they have rejected it completely. >> no democratic involvement in the bill at all? >> no, the bipartisan view is to

get into the closed room and come up with a bell and say, you support it. and that is bipartisanship and i will say one other thing, they are so embarrassed about the bill, and the hard right which is running the show for the first time is so far away from what americans want, and that is why health care failed and hopefully that is why this is going to fail. so what they are wanting to do is to rush it through and not one hearing on the major, major bill to affect the whole economic system or the tax code, and no the discussion, and no analysis by the outside experts and introduced it today and start marking it up and doing the amendments monday. they are afraid, and embarrassed. i called this the bill a dead fish.

the more it's in the sun, the more it stinks. they don't want people to know about it. >> are there red state democrats or conservative democrats who are potentially going to vote for this thing? >> we had 45 democrats sign a letter that said we had three principles, very simple, easy principles. no tax breaks to the 1%, don't blow a huge hole in the deficit and don't do reconciliation, do it bipartisan. 45 signed. there were three who didn't. but if you listen to those three and what they say, they agree with our principles. they just didn't want to sign the letter. >> these heitkamp and donnelly and manchin. >> it was our unity that helped sink it. >> a new york question here. i think new york is a particularly important state when thinking about the politics -- >> absolutely. >> -- of this tax plan. there are nine republican senators from new york. new york is the kind of states, blue state, that will be particularly hurt by these taxes. >> and places with relatively high housing costs.

>> yes, and those tend to be the republican districts. and peter king to his ever la lasting credit has taken this on and his district will be killed. the fellow out there on the first district lee zeldin, and he is a trump guy, but he has opposed this because he knows what it will do to his district. and i went around the state and i don't like the do it, but i named names, congressman so and so would be betraying new york to go for this and going for the hard right people, and 7 of the 9 people voted against the budget. and so i have called the governors, democratic governors of the eight or the nine other states, california, colorado and virginia, pennsylvania, and where you have a lot of the districts, and asked them to do the same. and they are in the process of doing it. so the republicans, particularly those from the suburban districts, and particularly those who tend to be a little

bit more mainstream and not hard, hard right, they are squirming, and they are going to be damned ooet wear i. if they vote against it, they will be having their right wing leadership mad at them, but if they vote for it, they face real electoral problem, because they are going to be hurting their constituents in a big and real way. so i think that we have a good shot. a good chance of defeating it, and i hope for the sake of the country and forget the politics that we defeat it. because it will blow a hole in the deficit for a decade and it would not do anything that we need to do to rebuild the country, and make the income distribution worse. taking the money away from the middle-class people and giving it away to the wealthiest and -- one more thing, this myth that if if you give them tax breaks they will create jobs, that is bull. they are not going to do that and stock buybacks and the corporate salaries, and the

higher end corporate salaries and the dividends and they don't use it for jobs. it is a smith. this is the one ing this that i am fighting hard in this job and i'm enjoying it. i did not know that i would enjoy it as much as i would, but they have a machine and the think tanks a and the professors and they perpetrate utter bull. so this even with the mainstream newspaper, maybe it will create jobs, but it won't. it won't. >> senator schumer, i have one more thing to ask you about. stay right there. now i'm fired up about taxes. we'll be right back with senator chuck schumer of new york.

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whstuff happens. old shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. joining us once again is top democrat in the united states senate, senator chuck schumer of new york. thank you for being here tonight. i want to ask you about the president's reaction after the terror attack this week in new york. obviously -- >> oh yes. >> this attack on tuesday, eight people died, 11 people

hospitalized. the president responded to it in part and quite quickly by criticizing you and by essentially saying it's your fault because of immigration policies you supported in the past. i don't want to do balls and strikes on immigration policy on this because i don't think it's appropriate but what did you expect from the president? did that behavior surprise you? >> no. because what i said -- i said he ought to stop tweeting and start leading. contrast him with george bush. i opposed on most policies. after 9/11 he called senator clinton and myself to the white house. how can we work together? we put a picture online of us at ground zero. look at what trump does. makes it political. we don't know the names of the dead and he is already trying to gain political points. it is so demeaning to this country and, you know, it doesn't bother me. i stick by my values. there are times online he's flattered me. there are times online he's

called me names. doesn't bother me. you stick to your values and that is fine but so bad for the country. so bad for the country that in times of tragedy he seeks to -- political advantage and he had to back off. the spokesperson, i tweeted back at him i think in a good way. not nasty. he didn't tweet back because i think he knew. and then his spokesperson said, oh no. he wasn't saying senator schumer's responsible. he had to back off and yet this morning interestingly enough not only did "the new york times" liberal and "the washington post" moderate but "wall street journal" editorial page criticized him for what he said about me. >> do you feel like the norms that the president has broken and feel like they're reparable? >> well, americans -- with him? i thought after three months maybe he'd learn. i'm having my doubts about that. really am. i think he's incorrigible.

forget my thing that he did, but just over and over and over again. what i worry about aside from the policies of this hard right movement that so hurts the middle-class. we have norms in the country and we have laws, but we have norms that we have obeyed for centuries, and he is breaking them. whether they can be repaired again is a very good question. he is doing real damage to those norms which are so fundamental to the democracy. >> sen or the chuck schumer, the top democrat in the united states senate and thank you for being here tonight and spending this much time, and so as the tax bills goes forward i will tell that you are fired up about it. >> i am fired up. >> and keep us apprised of how this is going to continue. >> and please, we need the viewers to call their congress members, and compared what we have done in the streets combi e combined with your unity in the

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quick update to a story that we brought at the top of the show regarding attorney general jeff sessions and the new questions about his repeated denials that he was aware of any contacts between the trump campaign and russian officials in the campaign. those questions have put the attorney general in a very difficult position. now that the trump campaign foreign policy adviser papadopoulos said he met with officials in the campaign and he later lied to the fbi about it. tonight, carter page who also served as a foreign policy adviser on the trump campaign, he tells nbc news in an e-mail tonight that during the presidential campaign in june of last year he says he informed now attorney general then senator jeff sessions that he carter page was making a trip to russia during the campaign. page tells nbc news, quote, back

in june 2016, i mentioned in passing that i happened to be planning to give a speech at a university in moscow. now, a source familiar with the conversation says page told the house intelligence committee in closed testimony today that he shook jeff sessions' hand, told him he was on the trump team and he told him that he was heading to russia. according to the source, sessions did not respond and moved on to the next person but this is yet another instance in which jeff sessions appears to have been told about contacts between the trump campaign and russia, contact that is he inequivocally and without condition denied under oath. we'll see you tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. i rearranged my schedule to make sure to be here tomorrow night live to host the show because -- >> great. >> because, of course, tomorrow night was going to be when the it