church services in a small texas town. the victims ranging in age from 18 months to the 77 years old. the gunman is dead. officials are left searching for answers. >> it's a senseless crime but we can tell you that there was a domestic situation going on within this family. the suspect's mother-in-law attended this church. we know that he had made threat -- threatening -- she had received threatening texts from him. >> too soon with two of the deadliest mass shootings in american history just in the past month. gun control advocates say it is time to get serious about tougher laws. president trump says no. >> this isn't a guns situation. i mean we could go into it but it's a little bit soon to go into it. this is a mental health problem at the highest level. it's a very vet sad event. it's a -- these are great people and a very, very sad event.

but that's the way i view it. >> coming up, we will speak with captain mark kelly, the the husband of former congresswoman gabriel giffords. and the russia connection. nbc news has learned federal investigators have enough evidence to charge former national security adviser michael flynn and his son who worked for him while leaked documents show president trump's commerce secretary may have misled commerce about his business ties to vladimir putin's powerful son-in-law. ross on cnbc today. >> there's nothing wrong with it at all. i think it's just an example of the press trying to find anything they can however remote or silly to attack the president and somehow link him to russia. this is nonsense. and good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitch in washington.

new details on the church shooting in texas. 26 people are dead. according to a county sheriff at least a dozen of those victims are children inincluding an 18mond old child and 20 others are injured after a gunman identified by police as devin patrick kelley opened fire sunday inside a sutherland springs church in a small town 30 miles east of san antonio. texans with family members trapped in the carnage describing is the scene just after the incident unfolded. >> we were waiting to see what's going to happen with my grandson. we just found out one of my gand daughters is not going to make it. >> my god. >> i had four grandchildren and my daughter-in-law were inside the church. at this time, we don't know which hospital one of my granddaughters and my daughter-in-law was taken to. church was like a family. it's like losing several members of your family. >> is this a church you regularly go to? >> yes, ma'am, we've been attending this church for over ten years. >> what is this church like?

what does it mean to you? what are the people like go ahead? >> it's a baptist church and everybody's really friendly. we do things together. >> moments ago an official with the texas department of public safety took us through the events immediately after the church shooting. >> we know that a local residents that lives across the street from the church heard what was going on. he armed himself with an ar assault rifle and engaged the suspect. they engaged in gunfire here at the church. we know that the suspect was shot. when he dropped his assault rifle, jumped in his ford expedition and fled the scene, this good samaritan our texas hero flagged down another young man from texas and jumped in his vehicle and they pursued the suspect. they will -- we know during that pursuit, the suspect used his

cell phone to notify his father that he had been shot and didn't think he was going to make it. >> today, investigators are working both at the crime scene and at the gunman's last known residence just 35 miles to the north of where the killings took place. local authorities they will us the shooter's-in-laws did frequent the church but not at sunday's service. they arrived later in the day and spoke with investigators. the big questions right now, the motive behind this latest mass shooting and his criminal history. kelley had been discharged from the air force after being convicted of bad conduct and jailed for assaulting his wife and child. joining me ayman mohyeldin in suggester springs and justice correspondent pete williams in our washington bureau. a man, what do we need to know about this? >> reporter: we had a very thorough press conference from members of the atf, fbi as well as the texas department of public safety. perhaps the most powerful point of that press conference came at

the very end when the pastor and his wife frank and sherry pomeroy spoke to the media with a powerful message. keep in mind, they are the -- frank is the pastor here at this church. he was actually not at yesterday's service. he was out of the state. so too was his wife. unfortunately, and tragically, their 14-year-old daughter and nap bell was in fact here. she has been confirmed as one of the victims. they addressed that today saying that they did not want to just focus on her tragedy. they wanted to make sure that her tragedy doesn't overshadow all the victims that were killed in this attack. we learned more today, we had been reporting that the victim's ages vary from 5 to 72. authorities clarified those were the ages of those who survived the tragedy of those who were killed included a child as young as 1 months old all the way up to 77 years old. and it included two families that were multigenerational. the holcombe family, joe and

clarice holcombe lost eight members of their family including their grandchildren, their daughter-in-law as well as her three children all of them killed in this tragedy as well as we heard from another family, the ward family that confirmed they too had three grandchildren shot and killed. one of them receiving five gunshot wounds being treated at an area hospital. we're told had to go back into surgery today and is in stable condition. we're learning more about the victims and it is absolutely heart breaking to hear these accounts because as everyone has told us throughout the past 24 hours, this was a very close knit community, a community about 400 or so residents. everybody knew somebody who went to this church and that is what has made it so hard for this community to try to deal with this tragedy this massacre that happened at the church behind me yesterday, andrea. >> a man, it is so heart breaking and in fact, you

referenced the pastor frank and annan bell his wife pomeroy who lost their 14-year-old daughter. this is annabelle pomeroy speaking just moments ago. >> we lost more than belle yesterday. and one thing that gives me a sliver of encouragement is the fact that belle was surrounded yesterday by her church family that she loved fiercely. and vice versa. our clurnl was not comprised of members or parishioners. we were a very close family. we ate together. we lavender together. we cried together. and we worshipped together. >> that was sherry pomeroy. i misspoke. their daughter annabelle or known as belle, 14-year-old child, died. just unspeakable. pete williams, i don't know how many times you and i have talked about these mat shootings, mother emmanuel church, las vegas, this, sandy springs.

what i don't understand is the texas laws that applied to his purchase of an assault weapon having been jailed for assault on his wife and child. having been. >> it's not the texas law that counts here. >> federal law then. >> it's federal law. so the govern has said that he doesn't qualify for a texas gun permit but that would be only if he wanted to carry the gun in public. so that's not the factor here. it's whether he was qualified under federal law. we know that he was court-martialed in 2012, a general court-martial which is the military equivalent i've felony. for assaulting his wife and child. now, under federal law, you can't own a gun if you've been convicted of domestic violence or a felony. so there's several questions here, andrea, we still don't know the answer to and it's going to take awhile to work. number one, was the informs i have just told you in the system that the fbi would have checked when he bought this assault

rifle just last year in san antonio? that's question one. was the information there. question two, if it was there was it collected by the fbi, did they actually look at it and thirdly, if they did, is it 100% clear and i must say the answer at this point is not clear, that those factors would have disqualified him from owning a gun. let me explain that if i may. all that's in his military record is that he was guilty of violating article 128 of the uniform code of military justice. it just says assault. there is no domestic violence count in the military law system. that's the first problem. the second problem is, is it 100% clear that a general court-martial conviction counts as a felony for the purpose of not being able to buy a gun and there again, the answer is ambiguous. so all this has to be worked out to see whether the current gun law would have, should have stopped him from buying this

gun. >> pete, thanks for all of that. the clarifications and what we still don't know and miguel alma gear you were also at the news conference. let's talk about what we know about potential threats threws against his in-laws, as well. text messages. >> reporter: yeah, good afternoon. we were told at the press conference that the suspect had exchanged some text messages with miss former mother-in-law. it's believed investigators said he knew she may attend the church on a fairly regular basis. she was not inside the church since the shooting but has since spoken to investigates are. they say the motive has not been determined but there seems to be some sort of family link, history to this church. we know at this hour just over my shoulder the fbi continues to go over the scene. they are walking shoulder to shoulder down this main street where the shooting occurred. we know hundreds of shots were fired. they are likely looking for more bullet casings as they continue

to examine the scene. >> miguel almaguer, thank you. johnnie langendorf was one of the individual who's pursued devin kelley on sunday. he jumped into his car with the individual who fired on kelley to craig melvin this morning. >> i'm trying to keep the gentleman next to me calm. i'm talking to dispatch and doing about 95 miles an hour down this road keeping up with this guy till he finally kind of -- he lost control on his own and hit the bar ditch and at that time, i parked the truck as close as i felt comfortable. me and the other gentleman got behind it. and the other gentleman drew his rifle on him. told the shooter to get out. he never got out. about then track was coming. so i went from behind the truck to go and stop traffic just in case there was any exchange of gunfire. so no one else would get hurt. >> and extraordinary. joining me by phone from sutherland springs commissioner skip hey jack who was at the

press conference moments ago. first of all, commissioner, our condolences for what your community, this extended family as pastor pom mer roy's wife sherry said is suffering grievously from today. i'm so sorry. >> thank you so much. thank you. we're going to need a lot of prayers and support for the families and their -- and the victims. i appreciate the condolences. >> i mean, do you know yet -- we just heard from johnnie langendorf, incredibly that he jumped in the car and chased after. he said to craig melvin he doesn't know whether one of the shots from their car felled him or whether it was a self-inflicted wound. i guess that's still being determined? >> yeah, there should be an occupies performed here soon to make that determination. >> what else can you explain

about texas or federal gun law or whether the military records had been properly put into the system? should he have had that weapon? >> i don't know. i don't know all the details yet. i don't -- i don't speculate on anything. i go strictly by facts. >> i understand. >> i'm -- i wish he wouldn't have it had for sure. until we know all the fantastics on the purchase and everything else, i can't make a comment on that. >> so what is your main, your main focus right now aside obviously from healing the community and making sure that everyone feels as safe as they can after this tragedy in. >> we're trying to create a fund-raiser for all the victims and their families to help compensate for the enormous expenses they're about to

endure. especially you know, the families with multiple members so we're having an emergency board meeting here soon to have the counties establish a fund-raising site for people to denate to help defray the cost. >> well -- >> my focus now, i need to help these people. you know, they're dealing with all the pain and sorrow and the heart ache. and the financial stress hasn't hit them yet. i want to try to prevent that and the county does. that's my focus right now anyway. >> and some of these families have so many family members who were affected, were killed or injured. and as soon as you know, we'll, of course, be in touch so we can put that on our website and help out any way we can. but also, you must have known people in this congregation, sir. >> unfortunately, i knew several

of the victims. >> i am so sorry. >> just heart wrenching. yeah, it's just -- just a very, very sad scenario. >> well, commissioner hajek, i'm so sorry, sorry for your loss, your community. our hearts are all with you. hearts and prayers. >> thank you very much. yeah, it's going to be a long process, but we're going to do everything we can to support the community and try to get some normalcy back in their lives. >> well, thank you. thank you, and obviously, we are focused on this to try to explain it and try to understand it better. thank you very much for being with us today. >> right. i would appreciate it if i could contact you once we set up that account. >> absolutely, please do. >> if you all could let people know where they could donate at. >> we are with you. >> thank you very much. >> we will be in touch.

and what can we say? coming up next, the latest on the president's response and his 12-day trip through asia. he learned of this in tokyo. he's wrapping up his visit to japan going on to south korea. we'll have a lot more coming up. stay with us.

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president trump in asia, the first day of his trip pressing

japan's prime minister to ramp up his country's military defenses against north korea. >> i will say if i could just take a piece of the prime minister's answer. he will shoot them out of the sky when he completes the purchase of lots of additional military equipment from the united states. he will easily shoot them out of the sky. the prime minister of japan is going to be purchasing massive apartments of military equipment as he should. and we make the best military equipment by far. >> joining me now is nbc senior national security analyst michael leiter, the former director of the national counter-terrorism center. great to see you. is the president pressing japan first of all on trade issues but on the military side to buy more defenses. japan has struggled with this over the years. they're changing their constitution in fact. >> they have all know abe has been pretty strong for several years trying to expand japanese

authority and capability for military restricted by world war ii. so i think this is largely in line with what president abe has been trying to develop. and certainly the idea of a regional ballistic missile defense system both based in south korea, u.s. naval war ships and japan is consistent with our and japanese goals. >> and aegis as well as offshore. >> that's right. it's a critical piece. >> the president also defending his rhetoric, his harsh rhetoric against north korea which has unsettled a lot of people in the region as he's heading to south korea today within hours, in fact. lester holt sat down with south korea's new foreign minister and asked about how this is all going down with south korea. let's play that. >> as president trump some of his more provocative statements have they raise the level of anxiety in this country. >> yes, i think, yes, to a certain extent. >> president trump will get to see this huge city of seoul and

see what is at risk if there is war. is it important for him to come here to see that? do you think it might change his opinions? >> oh, i think it's always an eye opening experience to go to where things are happening and when we talk of the north korean missile and nuclear threat, this is the frontline. this is ground zero row when we discuss this challenge which is now global security challenge that all around the globe are concerned. so i think it would be hugely helpful. i think it will open his eyes. >> now, while this is all happening, major tectonic change in saudi arabia. so many things happening this weekend. saudis influenced prime minister hariri to resign in lebanon as part of their pushback against the iranian influence in the

lebanese government. the heir an apparent, the crown prince arrests all of these fellow princes, his cousins on alleged corruption charges. he basically consolidates power including over the national security. >> absolutely. >> the national guard which is the first time that's happened. >> absolutely. >> what does that tell you. >> don't forget the saudi shootdown of an iranian supported missile out of yemen over riyadh, the capital. so what we see. >> and a very suspicious helicopter crash, maybe suspicious maybe not which is a former heir presumptive to the throne killed. >> i think what makes this one thing is clear. muhammad bin salomon it, the crown prince, is exerting his authority in numerous ways. the exact motivation for that gets more copply indicated. i really think that the crackdown we saw over the weekend with the arrests both on the security side and simply the very wealthy and really large number, this does serve two simultaneous purposes for him. one it is that consolidation of

power. second, there are some very legitimate anti-corruption needs and in doing this, it does appeal to in many ways his most important base outside of the royal family and that's the youth of saudi arabia who have consistently been unhappy with their opportunities. now, his excursions internationally and national security, those i think he really has an even rockier road. what is going on in yemen has been a real conveying mayor r meyer for the saudis. >> and against qatar. >> the qatar black aid has been really mixed results if any and you have increasing tensions after this missile shot with iran. so he is balancing many international forces which may overwhelm him. >> now, one quick point, jared kushner was just there a weak and a half ago and very close to him. after the summit, president trump very close to him. they visited back and forth. president trumping calling king salman from air force one on his way to tokyo.

there is a big trump connection. one of those arrested is a rival of president trump's wal lead. >> there's a big u.s. connection to saudi arabia. many of those people invited for the investment conference and the rebuilding american companies. the relationship, of course, between the u.s. the obama administration, bush administration going back well beyond that. this is still a key strategic ally for the united states. our ability to influence both the internal and external actions of the kingdom i think are limited. but i think it's still critically important we have these deep political and business ties and we doll applaud them when there's a liberalization, whether it's women driving 0 other pieces which muhammad bin salomon has been a driving force behind. >> that goes all the way back to president roosevelt and king saad as it was created. michael great to see you. >> coming up, remembering the victims of the sutherland springs church shooting. a live report from texas. stay with us.

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i've cried so much, i don't even have any tears left. >> i mean, the guy only brought us closer by doing this and we're more un flied now. it gives us reason to bring us more together. we will grow stronger and we will defeat this. >> resilience, heart broken and still in shock, residents of the small town of sutherland springs, texas trying to come to grips with sunday morning's church massacre killing at least 26 people. nearly half of the victims children. injuring dozens more. katie beckwith me now from university hospital in san antonio with the latest on the victims. katie, what more do we know about the status of the patients? you've got 5-year-old rye land ward shot multiple times. many other members of his family dead. >> reporter: that's right, andrea. so many of these families are grieving. there are still many clinging to hope hoping that they are going to have a recovery, a miracle something happen inside this hospital over the next few

hours. there are six patients, six shooting victims that remain here at university hospital. three of them are children. and one of them as you said is ryland ward, the 5-year-old shot five times in that church, rushed here to the hospital last night and given emergency surgery. his grandmother reported this morning that he was in stable condition but that was before he went into his second surgery. so we know a lot of people here are praying for those children as theys are fragile at this time and the trauma surgeons have been working throughout the night to try and save them. we learn this had morning one child here at the hospital was unable to be saved and died in the hospital last night. on a lighter note here at the hospital, they are having a blood drive. there are long lines of people giving blood, trying to help these victims in the hospital lobby. they are urging anyone who is able and maybe has a connection 0 this community to come and to donate. it looks as though people are doing that. later this afternoon, we're expected to hear from one of those surgeons that has been treating the children in the

trauma center throughout the night. we expect to have more specifics on their conditions then. andrea? >> catie beck, thanks so much for really that sad update. joining me now former nasa astronaut and navy pilot mark kelly, co-founder of gifford's courage to fight gun violence with his wife gabby giffords. mark, we have to stop meeting this way. what can we say? tell us about the laws that apply here. i talked to pete williams earlier. it's still unclear not only the texas law but the federal law and how it all interacts with the fact he had been court-martialed and convicted of what is the equivalent of a felony but that may not translate from military justice into the civilian law. >> yeah, andrea. first of all, thanks for having me on. our military justice system is a justice system that sits you know on its own. and the laws in the military don't always mirror what is true

in the civilian world. if you're arrested for domestic violence, if you're convicted of domestic violence, even dis demeanor domestic violence under the civilian system, you're not allowed to buy or possession a firearm. that's not necessarily true we're learning over the last 24 hours under the ucnj. it looks like he was discharged under a bad conduct discharge which is not the same and not as severe as a dishonorable discharge. so perhaps he was able to legally purchase and possess these firearms. and let me point out that you're laws matter. and we see time and time again especially in mass shootings there is often a component of domestic violence. so we really need to take a close look at the ucmj and see if we can tighten these laws to prevent the next or a future situation like this from occurring. >> would the assault weapon ban

that is expired maybe in 2004, would that assault weapon ban have prevented him from buying this weapon? >> it may have. i mean, we've got to see exactly where he purchased this ar-15-like rifle, this ruger semi-automatic assault wifl. you know, these weapons are incredibly powerful designed to kill a lot of people in a very short period of time which as we can see is what happened here in sutherland springs. i think our nation needs a conversation at the highest level. we need leadership on this issue. we need to discuss you know what type of weapons should be allowed in civilian hands. especially in the hands of people that you know have a previous criminal record like we saw in this case. but you know, it's going to take some leadership. i saw what the president said from japan.

he said this isn't a gun issue. i saw what governor abbott said. govern abbott talked a lot about what we should be doing. we should be hugging our kids, what the red cross is doing, what the community, the law enforcement is doing in sutherland springs. what i didn't hear from him was what he is going to do. that's leadership to acknowledge we have a problem which i think you know we do in this country. we've got a lot of gun violence. we had 35,000 people die from a gunshot wound last year. that's an incredible number. we really can do better than that, but it takes strong leadership. and especially leadership at the top. >> and i know that you and gabby are not -- you have guns. you have used guns. you lived in texas especially when you were in nasa and when gabby was being rehabbed. so this is not a cultural debate over whether or not guns should be legal but the president

saying that i think that this is a mental health problem, not a gun problem is really what a lot of people are focusing on. >> yeah, they are. to some extent i guess we should always be focused on mental illness but other countries have mental illness, as well. i think you know all industrialized countries have issues with mental illness but they don't have gun violence at the rates that we have here in the united states, 15 to 20 times the death rate from gun violence in any other industrialized country as you said, i'm a gun owner and served in the military. not when i was at nasa but in the neighbor i lived about an hour from sutherland springs from that church in texas. i'm somebody who understands texas really well. and i understand our gun laws. it's really interesting, you know we often talk about now is not the time to talk about to discuss this. well, okay, for a second let's forget about sutherland springs and go back to what happened in

las vegas. las vegas we had the worst mass shooting in our nation's history. it was five weeks ago. so maybe now is the time. you want to talk about leadership? the state of massachusetts already passed and the republican lieutenant governor signed into law a ban on bump stocks. last friday. that's leadership. the gun violence, the death rate from gun violence in the state of massachusetts is three people per 100,000 per year. in texas, that rate is 12, in louisiana, it's 20. it's very obvious for anybody that understands anything about math that our gun laws do matter. and we need to have a discussion about our laws and we need to improve them in the states that have very weak gun laws, and texas a place where i called home for more than half of my life, is a you know, a state that needs to take a serious look at its gun laws. >> and not just talk about changing the visa programs when one incident happens rather than

doing nothing when others happen. thank you very much. thanks, mark kelly. great to see you. >> thank you for having me on. >> you bet. and coming up, former white house chief of staff andy card joining us to talk about how president trump is handling a critical moment. stay with us. an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.

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to asia clouded by another deadly mass shooting here at home. joining me now chris jansing traveling with the president in japan, andy card former chief of staff under president george w. bush. welcome both. chris, the president's reactions clearly he's not talking about gun laws and not talking about changing any other kind of laws as he did after new york. or manhattan. but he's reverting to what he said after las vegas and now after texas. >> reporter: yeah, striking difference, right? because here he said essentially what he said after las vegas which is that this is a mental health problem. he called the gunman in this case somebody who was a very deranged individual. and in fact, said that it might be even deadlier if he had not been confronted by somebody else who was carrying a gun. then we saw the texas attorney general who came out and said maybe we need to arm and train people in small churches everywhere.

contrast that with a very specific set of policy changes that he talked about involving immigration when we saw that it was someone from uzbekistan who was here on a visa, he talked about stepping up restrictions on people coming in to this country once again even escalating it from where he has found it before. and in the meantime, even as these conversations are going on, andrea, you have his counselor, kellyanne conway on television this morning blaming democrats for politicizing this. she said it's not the time and it's not the time to be talking about when we are mourning the dead. so once again, you find yourself in this situation where there is this had consistency on the republican side on the nra that this is not a problem that can be legislated away even though the president himself has rolled back some of the restrictions on mental health restrictions for getting guns that were put into place in the obama era for

people who get social security benefits because of mental health reasons. those where is done away with under this president. and you have senators like chris murphy from connecticut who have been extremely critical. so once again, wading into this but very clearly saying he's not looking for any changes and certainly not any tightening of the gun laws andrea. >> thanks to you, chris. and andy card, we also have a terrible incident an assault on rand paul. senator paul now more seriously injured according to his staff than originally thought. broken ribs, very painful. bruised lungs from the rib injury. do we know anything more about this? he's not going to be able to return to work for a while. >> i don't know anything more about it. i have heard it's not likely he's able to return to work in the short term anyway. i think he'll be pretty actively engaged in what's going to be happening in congress. he's got strong views and not afraid to bring them up. i don't think he's going to be silent. i don't think he will be missing. i think he may not be present in

congress as they deliberate for the next few weeks but he'll be there for the important action. there's not a doubt in my mind. our prayers are with him. i tell you, the situation in texas does have all of us thinking very seriously about policy but most importantly remembering that we want to be supportive of the families that have suffered so much and what a tragedy for that beautiful small community in texas. >> an unspeakable tragedy and just to point out that rand paul's assailant according to local authorities, is a neighbor, a fellow doctor in a gated community. so this is a personal dispute of some bizarre sort. we don't know yet. >> civil dialogue has been strained and we've got to get back to the point where we can discuss our differences without exhorting to violence. >> i want to ask you about a new book out about the bushes which quotes george herbert walker bush as describing president trump, then candidate trump when the interview was done as a

below ha blow hard and saying i don't like him and george w. bush being a little bit less explicit but also saying that he believes that the president, that you can either exploit the anger incite it or come up with ideas to deal with it. both bushes indicating the bush family which you know so well are disapproving president trump. >> first of all, my understanding is both of those interviews were done well before election day. i think the interview with the first president bush george h.w. bush was done in may. and jep bush had just withdrawn from the candidacy to win the republican nomination and donald trump was on the path to winning that nomination. and i can understand why president bush would say what he said. i also will say this. he has great respect for the office of the presidency. and he called donald trump when he was elected president. i think he may have been the first former president to call

donald trump and congratulate him on his victory. i know that he really does recognize that the respect for the oval office and respect for the presidency is very important. and george h.w. bush is about the most respectful person i know. he shows respect for the office of the president even though he may not think that donald trump would have been the best president. there's not a doubt in my mind he thought jeb would be the best president. >> andy card, thanks so much. we'll have a lot more on the investigation into russia. we'll be right back. ♪ everyone deserves attention, whether you've saved a lot or just a little. at pnc investments, we believe you're more than just a number. so we provide personal financial advice for every retirement investor. let's take a look at some numbers:

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former trump campaign chairman paul manafort and his associate, rick gates, will remain under house arrest following their indictments last week. they both appeared in u.s. district court in d.c. this morning after the special counsel's office charged them on counts ranging from conspiracy to money laundering last week. nbc is reporting according to several sources associated with michael flynn and his son worked for him, both are under fire. federal investigates have enough evidence to file charges in that investigation. is this a pressure tactic? joining me nbc news carol lee and john mclaughlin, former kri

acting director. carol, this is part of your reporting. you're on the team that came up with all of this information with michael flynn. what's going on here? >> what's happening is the pressure is increasing on michael flynn, that the special counsel is sort of squeezing him. and there's a couple things going on here. they're using his son, michael g. flynn, as a way to apply further pressure on former national security adviser, but then when we've talked to people about this, the investigation is not just looking at what we would think in terms of, you know, did he lie to the fbi? did he properly file as a foreign agent or disclose -- have disclosures with contacts with foreign officials? it's also looking at his time inside the white house as national security adviser and whether there was anything untoward that happened during those 24 days, specifically as it relates to turkey. >> wow. >> so, there's a number of ways

in which this can go. and i think we haven't seen publicly any charges in this investigation into these two, but that could mean someone is talking about cooperating, already cooperating or, you know, they're playing this game of trying to get to that space. >> when you're talking about the national security adviser, even for 28 days he was the adviser during the tradition, he had all these meetings with the russians had he not properly disclosed and he had that critical meeting with people interested in, perhaps, apprehending and extraditing the cleric in pennsylvania, who is the opponent and suspect by erdogan, even though he denies is against the failed coup against erdogan. >> this is a big deal, andrea, for a couple of reasons. first, if this all works out as

carol's reporting has indicated, this will be moving in closer to the president. so far, people like manafort, papadopoulos and so forth were important but on the fringes of the government. they were not in the government. so, flynn was sitting right there in the midst of all these national security decisions. and in addition to the discussion that occurred over this cleric who lives somewhere in pennsylvania and is suspected by erdogan, i think it was director woolsey, former cia director woolsey, who reported in a meeting it sounded as though they were talking of forcibly removing him from the united states and what would amount to, in my old world, a covert operation. so, that would be way beyond the pail in terms of what a national security adviser or one intending to be would ever contemplate doing. >> it was right after that woolsey precipitously quit

transition. >> one other thing about the issue, what we know investigators are looking at is once michael flynn got in the white house, did he use his position as national security adviser to push for, somehow, the return of goulen to turkey under the hopes if he was successful, he would receive millions of dollars. >> in fact, erdogan repeatedly pressed the previous administration, joe biden to his face told him in public he couldn't do this, it wasn't legal to supplant what the justice department could do. >> this picked up after the turkey coup attempt. but erdogan were at some point allies. prior to that coup they turned against each other and erdogan has been on his case all that time. >> and we didn't get to it but we referred to it earlier, wilbur ross now being accused. he denies of having failed to disclose connections to putin's son-in-law. i think you have your work cut

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that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show online at facebook and twitter. craig picks up coverage from sutherland springs, texas. >> good afternoon, craig melvin in sutherland springs. in is a tiny town that now has

the distinction to being home to the worst church shooting in u.s. history. the worst mass shooting in texas history. right now, and i don't know if you can see it behind me, but i'm going to turn and describe the scene for you. i think we have some vehicles blocking the view. there are fbi agents, roughly a dozen or so of them, that have just been walking from the front of that church down to the end of the street. they are continuing to look for shell casings. authorities say the gunman fired hundreds of rounds inside that church shortly after 11:00 a.m. sunday morning. here's what else we know right now. authorities say the suspect who killed 26 and wounded 20 others did have a connection to first baptist church. they say it was some sort of, quote, domestic situation with his in-laws. authorities say he sent his mother-in-law threatening text messages. authorities also confirming there is video from inside the