john heilemann and contributor mike barnacle. johnny deutsche is here, commentator susan persio. and carole lee joe and mika have day off. roy moore faces sex misconduct and a growing number of republicans calm-to-have him step aside a. woman claims in 1979, moore, then a 32-year-old assistant district attorney had a sexual encounter with a woman when she was only 14-years-old. lee corfman tells the "post" she and her mother were sitting outside the courtroom, moore struck up a conversation and offered to watch the girl while her mother went in for a custody hearing. one of the reporters told our katy tur what allegedly happened next. >> reporter: after the mother went if, he got her phone

number, picked her up and took her to his home in the woods, twice did that. the first time there was kissing and then the second time, he took off her clothes. he took off his own clothes. he touched her over her bra and underwear and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear. >> nbc news has not independently verified these accusations, corfman never filed a lifl suit. we should know the age of consent then is now 16-years-old, she was 14. three other women between the ages of 16 and 18 at the time told the "post" they, too, were pursued by moore. he never forced them into any sort of relationship or sexual contact. the "post" indicates the "post" did not seek them out. poor calls the report completely

false and a desperate political attack. he says it is no surprise, with just over four weeks we maining, in a case in the u.s. senate with national implications that the democratic campaign would come up with these allegations. he responded i don't have night saying. -- and here is what we have been hearing from republicans on capitol hill, including senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell. . >> it is a devastating, nasty story. if the revelations, if that's true, that i don't believe there would be any place for him in the u.s. naat. >> it's very, very disturbing,

what i've read about. i'll have more to say about it i'm sure after i learn more. >> obviously, what i've heard, it's incredible, very serious. >> if there is any shred of truth to these stories, he ought to step avoid and now. >> would he be fit to serve in the senate, if this is true? >> no, no, no, if there is any sled of trutshred of truth, he o step aside immediately. >> most couched it, if the allegations are true. senator john mccain was much more forceful and definitive. he said -- so aagain, nicole, your old boss john mccain stepping forward when a lot haven't. >> that clause, if true, let's stipulate. we have four women open the record. their stories are corroborated by women at the time they told

friends, she told her mother a couple of years later. what should republican, what should decent people be saying today? >> i think every republican there went out to do the right thing. they intended to say and do the right thing. but by saying if the allegations are true, when women, many, many, years later, put their names in the paper, no woman wants to be dragged into a sexual assault, a sexual harassment story, so the fact that and i really i think it's ignorance, not malice, but every time i hear "if they're true." this is the kind of detailed journalism that the first harvey weinstein stories included, no one said, if they're true. >> that's exactly the question, nicole. the question isn't posed to senators, do you believe the allegations? the question ought to be posed, do you believe these women? that's the question? >> four women put their name on a story 30 years later with absolutely nothing to gain. >> susan, the reaction from the

moore campaign is instructive. we heard, we will get into it with local alabama republicans, which is consider the source. this is the liberal media, instead of considering the allegations, consider who is presents these allegations in the wall poshington post. >> the question is do you believe these women, as nicole said, they put their names out there. the other question of course is what else will we see in the next couple of weeks, this type of thing as we saw in the weinstein, more women tend to come out. so it will be an avalanche thing. i think at this point it's up to mitch mcconnell to say i'm no longer putting funding into this race until we see, you know, if he wants to do the wait and see report, at least he can now hold back funding. >> here's a sad probable lot to this story, if no other women come forward and this continues as is, he'll get elected. that's the tragic part. i believe the republican

congressmen punched out a reporter on national television. i generally believe the passion and the ignorance to keep the status quo as it is when it comes to race, when it comes to a guy who has gone up and said homosexuality should be against the law. i genuinely believe we are still at a state in this country where he will get elected. >> that is tragic. >> is that the lesson from donald trump as he powered through the ""access hollywood"" tape, go through it, people will rally around you, maybe you will come out of it? >> it certainly was the case for donald trump. for roy moore, it's another question. one of the things that happened as in virginia and new jersey and other places is democrats were kind of on the fence about the question that they were going down to make a push in alabama. if you see republicans running away from moore, if the part abandons him in terms of it support and money, if democrats make a push there with their candidate who is not a bad

candidate for alabama, this race can get pretty tight, very fast. i understand donny's point, there are a lot of places where republicans in red countries are unacceptable and survived. i don't know whether given the climate and the focus on these issues, this race could with just a little bit of the right kind of chips fall the right way, this race could end up being a race, they could win a month from now, if it happens, it will be the biggest most dramatic political manifestation of this moment right now we are living through with respect to these issues. >> it will test conservative media, too. the first media outlet to surround him is breitbart. they said the only won that would be illegal is molesting a 14-year-old. you saw on fox news, he had a lot of defenders. this will test the conservative media outlets that defend someone like roy moore is known to be a pedophile if you don't

believe the women, that has to be reliving some of their worst moments. two, it's going to test whether or not this toxic slogan of fake media has made people -- fake news has made people immune to facts. >> you have a uniquely receptive audience in the state of alabama and this is going to be a real test for that. >> how about that lovely state auditor with the bible defense, was that the most amazing? you have it, that's, i'm sorry, i'm here to tease it up. >> i was talking about this earlier, daniel dale is a washington correspondent for the toronto "star." a reporter compiling a reaction to moore from public figures in alabama. among them, marion care david hall said it was 40 years ago, i really don't see the relevance of it. he was 32, she was supposedly 14. she's not saying that anything happened other than they kissed. actually, that's not true. >> that's not true. >> there was genevaia signman,

saying, other than being an under aged person, he didn't force himself. i know that's bad enough, if he withdraws, it's five weeks to the election. >> that would concede it to the democrat. he later added, while he doesn't believe the allegations are true, if they are true, he said it's not forcible rape adding i know that 14-year-olds done make good decisions. >> how about 30-year-old hemen? >> has the politics so corrupted people that the defense of the tribe supersedes a 14-year-old girl saying she was raped? is that where we are? >> that's where we are. >> 14. >> i would have a question that i would like to pose for all the good people, enormous numbers of good people in alabama, birmingham, alabama, if a 32-year-old man came into your driveway to ping up your daughter, what would your reaction be? >> it would shoot them. >> covington, county republican

chairman women blocker tells dale, quote, there is no option to support the jones, the democratic nominee. when you do that, you are supporting the entire democrat party and state auditor said, quote. >> this is the worst. >> take joseph and mary, mary was a teenager and joseph was an adult carpenter, they became parents of jesus, that's not a parody, that's not the onioning i'm not making that up. >> that is an actual quote from a republican official in the state of alabama? what's happening to us? we set this backdrop against louis c.k. stuff, all the things we are hearing, what's happened to us? where are we going in is there such deviancy that lives in so many men, are we still in a world as we saw those defenses that the humanity is sucked out of so many people? my daughter is 14-years-old. she's a little girl. you have to picture it. if you knee 14-year-old, pick

that, now visually pick this 32-year-old slime bag attorney actually coddling up to her, just play that movie out in your head. >> he picked her up at a custody hearing of all things. >> we only have a huge following in alabama, we are the number one. >> by far. >> if you have kids, look at your children, man. >> you know, there is obviously a larger issue with everyone that's gone on recently over the past few years, can you almost hear the nuts and bolts of the under straur u structure of our culture loosening as everything becomes more permissible. everything becomes more public. the longer it's public, it becomes in an odd way sort of acceptab acceptable. >> how do we get to the stage electing a democrat is worse tan electing a deviant? >> so right now, moore appears

to have a six-point lead. it puts moore at 48 and doug jones the democrat at 42. senator luther strategy who moore defeated in the prime area, senator lisa murkowski won after a successful write-in bid said she has spo ento strange about that point when asked if he should run as a write-in candidate, richard shelby said he'd support him, to which strange respond, thank you. it is too late to take moore's name off the december 7th ballot. if he steps aside, any votes will not be certified, as far as switching candidates, there was such a case in new jersey into 2002. you remember a democratic senator tried to pull out of the race, torricelli. democrats went to court to replace him with frank lautenberg. lautenberg went on to easily win that election.

>> this brings us back to politics here, right. this is a six-point race. that's not that far outside. in alabama, you go back to tuesday night, wednesday, howard dean saying this is a race democrats can win a. winnable race, tough before the write in. i'll say as we head into 2018, you got a todd aiken six here where this will have reverbations outside of alabama. we may have the horror of roy moore winning this race, now you will have republicans all over the country in districts not alabama in suburban districts asked the question over and over again, what do you think about roy moore? are you on roy moore's side? >> do you believe the women? >> this is going to be another, just from the suburban districts

where republicans are in a bad w way. again this is todd aiken times five. the way the current electoral landscape looks where democrats can easily win. this will be a issue they will be dealing with, toxic issue, all thanks to steve bannon who brought us roy moore in the first place. so this has wide broad reverb racing over the next 12 months. >> the worst thing that can happen is roy moore win, this is the party of pedophiles, the party of physical abusers, so you make him one of the posterboys, short sided, obviously, the republicans want him in there. i think it's a move. >> carolele lee, john raises the point this was a candidate in roy moore, not a beloved one let's say by members of the senate up there currently. so if you talk to people, we

heard the if true clause, but do you think the drum beat will get so big that he will have to drop out of the race or some people, conservatives, if he won he ought to be expelled from the senate. that was on background reporting from senators, himself. >> reporter: i think you are right, willie, either way you seen the republicans, including the leadership who really don't have any interest in having roy moore in the senate. if you step back, this was already how they felt when he won the primary this has fueled that, i think you are going to see. i think it depends in part on how roy moore responds in the coming hours and days. does he come out and address it? does he answer questions about this? and does anything he say, you know, hold any weight? can it be believable.

but you are absolutely right in the sense, i think you will increasingly see republicans just taking a step back from him. >> nicole, before we go to break, i want to under line again, you seen from become become republicans some muddying of the waters here, she was supposedly 14. >> no, she was 14, it was 1979 all they did is kiss. >> se said the quote in the story, i just wanted it to end. >> i just wanted it to end and by the way, there is a whole another layer we will talk about later her life was altered by this day. >> every woman's life is altered. they never get those years back. >> so these comments about consider the woman, the source, the washington post, it's repulsive to dismiss a woman's allegations that way. >> i don't know what to use other than deprav, the depravity of anyone defending him, or

circleing the wagons and make this a fake news story is appalling. this isn't about the media. this is about four women going about their lives in alabama t. quotes in this story are unbelievable. someone had to take his mask off. that was one of the accusers, to see the minutes after this story broke, they say the only legal problem he has is the 14-year-old. no the problem he has is he's an an pam, he's an animal and republicans are waiting to see if it's true. >> and some are invoking jesus christ as a comparison to excuse his behavior. still ahead, a new report says the president sees himself as almost keenly power, which he is describing with increasing bluntness. >> explains a lot. >> plus the president hammers his two most recent predecessors, barack obama and president george w. bush. his vice president is taking a different approach. mike pence's role in washington

and who he is talking to outside washington. you are watching morning joe. we'll be right back. us. it's what this country is made of. but right now, our bond is fraying. how do we get back to "us"? the y fills the gaps. and bridges our divides. donate to your local y today. because where there's a y, there's an us. here's the story of green mountain coffee roasters sumatra reserve. let's go to sumatra. the coffee here is amazing. because the volcanic soil is amazing. so we give farmers like win more plants. to grow more delicious coffee. which helps provide for win's family. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters.

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. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it will be a cold day, wind chill in the teens they say, in the teens. so joe was writing this morning in the "washington post" it proves it. american politics are a disaster.

this has been a pipe dream for too long, it's been a pipe party, it's never worked with a candidate that has a chance to win. is it different? is it getting different? >> i spent the last weekend out with the trump voters, the democrats who had voted for trump in pennsylvania and ohio and they're still enthusiastic about him but as much as they love him, you look at the 67% of the country that's appalled by him and repelled by him. i do think, i've never been a fan, a proponent, a believer that a third party can do anything other than serve as sa spoiler for the party with which he or she is most aligned. i think we're in this moment. mike and i were talking about

the book "the unwinder" by george packer, we are unravelled, we are unwound, we need to be updated and could unwound. i think as we sort of all are on our knees, there is an openness to something different. but it would have to be built around competent not ideology. i think something that repels people is this tribalism, the defending of the indefensible because they're in your tribe. i think a third party movement would have to be based around that which is competent, not ideological and that which is grass roots. >> we saw that. >> every other area of our life, we have more choices than ever before, we grew up with six tvs, there used to be two peanut butters, now there are 100. >> that's not a good thing, standing there for like an hour. >> this is the only area in modern western civilization that has not eva fld to kind of more choices. we still live in this a or b world and we are not in an a or

b world. so i don't have a prescription, but i do not, it's not mirror who we are anymore. which is take one, take the other or go home. >> but in new york, syracuse the fifth largest city, elected mayor on tuesday that did not come from a major party, who ran as an independent with 54% of the vote. as a matter of fact, he came from a prominent republican family, but the fact that he was able to get 54% of the vote in a democratic city and now goes in as an independent, it does show on the grass roots level with the right candidate, people are open to it. so we are starting to see a little break here and there. >> john, if you look at last year, donald trump is not a republican. he was a vetting candidate who ran, bernie sanders isn't a democrat. in fact, he's not a democrat, he's an independent, that spirit is there. the question is can you run without the party apparatus and win on the national level? >> the answer is no, to donny os

point, we don't have a free market in politics, i was a big advocate somehow we can get an independent presidential candidate the reality is the parties have such a vice-like grip over basic fundamental infrastructure, like ballot access, the people that go around start this movement. you go state by state. the parties are profoundly corrupt. they have so much control over you keeping those third party out that it just, it's almost insupperable barrier to that happening, even though it's clear there is a huge appetite for something different. the thing about trump, the republican party are in a period of terminal breakdown. you are more likely to see the parties dissolve and rebuild themselves rather than like a third alternative, but the democratic republican parties can look different 20 years from now than today. >> carole has a new piece from

nbcnews.com, pence creates his own president's club and talks with biden and cheney, he details how they maintain contact with his predecessors, pence spoo exto former vice president on the phone at least monthly, he's had numerous conversations with former vice president dig cheney, including at least one meeting in his west wing office, according to people close to each of them this vice president's club is a contrast to the bitter breakdown between trump and barack obama. notable distance from george w. bush a fellow republican. obama and trump have fought spoken to each other or communicated privately in anyway since the inauguration. according to people familiar with the matter. so care, what are these conversations like? mike pence picks up the phone, he calls joe biden, what do they talk about? >> reporter: yeah, it's interesting, it's both ways. sometimes joe biden will pick up

the phone and call mike pence or mike pence will call joe biden. they talk about a number of things. one thing we learned that was interesting that joe biden will do, he'll call mike pence any time he is meilutyting with a foreign leader or taking a trip overseas and say, hey, is there anything that i should know or i want you to know that i'm taking this trip. do you want me to bring any messages? what's the status of things? and similarly, and then joe biden will call him back after these discussions and give him a readout of what his discussions entailed. and then mike pence will call joe biden, if he's before all of his foreign trips and basically say, you know, what's the deal? who are these leaders? what should i know? you know joe biden, he loves this, a lot of these foreign leaders are people that he's spent a lot of time with as vice president while he was in the senate. so he has a lot to say. he offers his advice. they also talk about what it's like to be vice president. what that role is like, you know

the interplay between congress and the white house and a number of things and similarly, those are conversations that pence has had with dig cheney. >> thank you, you've had conversations with joe pence, how do you think they are, two or three hours? >> the biggest issue mike pence, he is used to say, joe, joe, i got to go. as carole points out, this began because of vice president's affinity for cooperation throughout his career, his love of politics, but his larger love of the country, the united states of america. >> talking about biden here? >> yeah, joe biden. this began immediately after the election, he contacted mike pence, anything you need, i'm here. >> i spoke to someone close to biden and said if he's healthy, he's going for it if 2020. >> well, we'll see. >> a long ways off, we'll see coming up, after the allegations of roy moore, should they be

concerned about steve bannon supporting the mid-terms? morning joe is coming right back, yes, says nicole. accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth. if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know

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so willie had to run across the street to help out another program. so john and i have the reigns now, put on your seatbelt. >> like dora the explorer this morning, we're in trouble. >> you're in trouble. the "wall street journal" is digging deeper into the big issue hanging over michael flynn's head, his work on behalf of the turkey government. special counsel john mueller is investigating an alleged plan involving the former white house national security adviser to forcibly remove a muslim cleric in the u.s. and deliver him to turkey. under the alleged proposal, flynn and his son michael flynn, jr., were to be paid as much as $15 million for delivering the cleric to president erdogan who views the cleric as a political enemy. >> there is an incredible story. it's incredible on a number of levels. let's focus on the main ways it's incredible. flynn was at that point the

incoming national security adviser in the president's transition, he had been working for turkey previously. there is issues around that whether he was registered, a foreign lobbyist, et cetera. this takes it to a different level, $15 million, the deal that the mueller is investigating, is that flynn was going to be involved in kidnapping someone and putting him on a plane and putting him in a turkish prison. this is the incoming national security adviser. so it's an extraordinary thing, unprecedented in the anals of american history, if true, also as it happens it is the thing over which donald trump and jim comey were having the discussions that ended up getting jim comey fired can't you just let michael flynn go? i want to ask carole lee, what do you know about this story? >> we know nbc reported on sunday that michael flynn, the special counsel was looking into whether michael flynn had cut some sort of deal with the

government of turkey in the weeks before entering the white house under which he would somehow orchestrate this return to turkey this cleric on exchange for millions of dollars and you know this is obviously that would be highly illegal to do, for any government official to do. so the other piece of it is that we know that michael flynn's son works worked very close with him in his business and his lobbying firm is also being looked at for this and what his potential involvement is in any sort of deal like this. >> mike the flynn element of the mueller investigation obviously flynn has been along with paul manafort, the people of the highest level who have the most legal vulnerability, this is now another track of that investigation that mueller is pursuing, it appears, where do you see, how much trouble do you think flynn could ultimately be if any of these things are true or toledo to indictments?

how much do you think it can be true for donald trump? >> the edges of this story have been out there for months. basically a kidnapping, a legal endigs to take someone from pennsylvania to turkey as you put it into a turkish prison. the ultimate mystery, i think, the a lot of people, is what happened to mike flynn, in iraq and afghanistan, working for stan mcchrystal, he was a superstar. and something along the way, something clearly happened. nobody really knows, or i have not heard any definitive explanation of what happened. but now, he's clearly in a bind because i'm told and i think all the people have been told they have the goods on mike flynn's son as well as with mike flynn. so if you are general flynn, you are confronted with the possibility that your son your youngest son will go to jail for any number of charges perhaps,

what do you do? do you cut a deal to save your son? that's -- >> half of him the movie apocalypse now, marlon brando, somewhere along the line he snapped. i think he is a precursor to come. i don't know if we can imagine what mueller will come up with flynn but the entire cast of nefarious characters. you have people starting in the white house, they've operated above the law in their own universe, now you have a special prosecutor who can go anywhere he wants. i think the stories that will be coming out in the months and years to come are imaginations, our imaginations can't take us there. there are going to be these tales of corruption, these tales of evil. these tales of twisted behavior that we can't even fathom. this is one little example of things to come. >> you have to look at it from a national security perspective. let's not forgive, turkey is one of the most critical allies we have in that region, they were undergoing a coup, which is why

in theory flynn wanted to return this person. >> and he wanted to be high with erdogan to begin with. >> correct. >> that puts our own troops in doonger. >> that puts our position in the mill -- this is the incoming national security adviser. i think there is a lot more that can turn up under that mind of thinking. >> i think the fact that you've got three families with two generations ensnard in basically what sounds like mob activity. you have kushner a son-in-law to the president. you got flip jr. working for his father under scrutiny apparently enough to indict both of them and you got manafort and his son-in-law involved. one former diplomat and republicans described the whole enterprise as something he sees in corrupt companies in africa. the whole thing a corrupt money laundering, pay for play scam. >> one of the interesting threads of this story beneath the surface of all of these stories the stories you just mentioned, it's pretty clear to a lot of people that none of the

people involved the manaforts, the flynns, they never thought donald trump was going to win. >> yes, a great point. >> they never thought he was going to win. they were going to cash in. >> allison, one last thing i keep saying over and over again. i was talking on your show yesterday, this investigation is not winding down. this investigation is metasthesizeing. it is getting harmer, more encompassing, everyone thinks the investigation is in its final days, we are seeing indictments. guys, this will go on for months, strap in it's going to be going on for a long time. >> on that note, we should note a spokesman declined, add to the story mr. flynn and mr. frin jr., coming up, steve bannon talks about the first executive decision he made on the trump campaign, jeremy peters joins us with more on his sit down with the president's chief strategist. morning joe is coming right back. usaa to me means

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. >> joining us from capitol hill now, national politico reporter jonathan swann, tell us donald trump's government of when we return. >> that sounds exactly right. >> reporter: there has been a lot of remarkable scenes so far in this trump administration, but we reported on axios a scene in late june, donald trump hosted a group of native american tribal leaders to the white house. they're sitting in the roosevelt room. they've come to give him a slide show presentation to show him about the land that they oversee and the fact that they can't get at their energy resources and donald trump interrupts them and says, guys, what do you feed? what do you need? the problem is there are all these regulations that prevent us from getting energy out on the ground. guys, i'm the president now, just do it, just do it. they sort of, there was a sort of silence in the room.

they look around. somebody turns around, says to the white house count sell, can we just do that? and the president, one of the other officials in the room steps in and sort of interprets the trump speak and says, no, no, no, we're working on the regulation, trump says, no, no, no, no, i don't think you guys are hearing me, just do it. the chinese don't ask the questions, the saudis don't ask the questions, what are they going to do once you deck it up, they can't make you put it pack in. so it was this sort of surreal conversation, the meeting ends, trump says, so should we all go and take a photo now? they went and took a photo. >> i really love this story. because it's fought about an issue that's going to like grind washington to a halt. but it's a wonderful window into how he rolls. >> for 40 years as a professional, donald trump was used to saying, just do it, dig that hole over there, fire that

person over there. >> it's what people love. >> that's the way he's operated. he thinks he can operate in this new capacity. it's a different job. >> jonathan, i want to ask you, think about this in a broader sense, right? everybody has remarks for the whole trump administration that trump does not kind of respect the norms and traditions hand the in some ways he sees himself as not constrained by oh, the independence of the judiciary, or the quasi-defense of the fbi or doj. you would think after several months in office, he might be starting to get the hang of it and realize the president isn't only n omnipotent. are there other ones beyond that vivid one you just gave? >> reporter: yeah, look at the way he views the senate, for example. he wants to proceed up the legislative filibuster.

he sees, he views the senate and mitch mcconnell as an archaic institution. he doesn't understand the rules. he basically wants to blow up anything in his path between him and what he wants. people ae assumed as you said early in the administration, there will be a learning curve. he will adjust to walk. it is the opposite, he is getting more and more frustrated with these constraints and is publicly airing them, he is now say, it's a real frustration that i'm paraphrasing control the department of justice and use it to go after my political enemies, that's something he effectively said out loud on twitter. as we look into next year i think particularly if tax reform and which is obviously his next big congressional initiative, if that falters, where is he going to do with the unilateral power of the presidency? he has already shown he likes executive actions after criticizing obama for them. what is he going to do with

these big trade deals? there is a lot of legal authority whether he can withdraw from nafta? i think we will see pa lot more of this next year. >> you set this up perfectly. senate republican versus revealed their plan for tax reform, a top priority for president trump after several failed attempts to pass legislation on other issues. the senate proposal differs in several key ways introduced by the house last week. first, it would delay a cut of the corporate tax rate into the year 2019 the house version would institute the capping immediately, second it would double the state tax chem shun to a maximum 11 million and keep the current in place for any states exceeding that amount and third the senate bill contains a seven-brack tax structure for individuals while the house bill contains only four. speaker paul ryan had this to say about the differences. >> yes, the senate bill will be different than the house bill, that's the legislative process,

what's encouraging in all of this is just as we discussed at the front end of this process, we have a frame that we established with the white house and the senate and these bills are house will pass its bill. the senate will pass its bill and then we will get together and reconcile the differences which is the legislative process, and that's how this process will continue. >> how a bill become as law, from paul ryan. and house republicans move their bill out of the ways and means committee yesterday and plan a vote on their tax plan next week. senate side. gop can only lose two seats secure the votes needed to pass a tax bill. gary cohn and steve mnuchin are touting the gop plan to cut taxes for businesses. >> you, i imagine, are the point man for big ceos. you come from their world. they know you. what are you hearing? >> the most excited group out there, big ceos about our tax plan. they all tell me how excited

they are to get a tax plan that makes the united states competitive. >> do you still believe in trickle-down economics? >> i do, and, again, i think one of the big incentives on the corporate rate is at a 20% rate. companies are going to be incented to reinvest those profits as opposed to dividending them out. >> not true. >> jonathan swan, clearly the communicators have not gotten to either of those men to tell them you sell a tax consult to the american public by telling the american public how it helps them. >> i sent the gary cohn clip to a senior white house official when it broke yesterday, and their response was very sarcastically, on message. >> exactly! that was my thought. >> two ironies about this, the gop tax plan is that, number one, we live in a world now where we're getting 3% gdp growth, lowest unemployment, stock market booming. i'm not sure even if the real

world the absolute need. from a political point of view, gop, we're putting everything on this. we get this, we won. be careful what you wish for. if i was crafting a democratic message going forward, this goes through, 1% of the people got 80% of the benefits. guess what? the corporations won. you lost. to me, you know, be careful what you wish for, because they get this on a lapel pin and i will go to work on it in a big way. >> not only that, face it. there's a lot of swing districts in california, new york, pennsylvania, that this -- no matter what form of this plan comes out, so far, it's going to hurt a lot of people running for re-election, and that is going to put the house up in play. >> nicolle, you just came back from pennsylvania. you just came back from an area where they bought donald trump a year ago. >> erie, pa, yeah. >> and just saw the gary cohn clip. what if you go back to pennsylvania, show the gary cohn clip when they know the republican proposal and the

house tax plan, state and local income tax deduction, gone. medical expense deduction, gone. student loan deduction, gone. what's the reaction going to be out there? >> listen, it's so off trump brand it's remarkable. what cohn and mnuchin just said is so off brand for the trump base. i can't believe i'm about to say this. this is where they're going to miss steve bannon. >> carol lee -- >> i mean -- >> we're going to pretend you didn't say that. >> steve bannon, carol, this is the political reality -- steve bannon understood what the trump base needed to hear about any policy and what they're waiting for and i talked to them last weekend, they're not waiting for a corporate tax cut. waiting for us to get out of nafta. they wanted isolationism. they're not waiting for what gary cohn and steve mnuchin are promising. >> reporter: definitely not. they are waiting for something that follows through on what the president, president trump, promised during the campaign. the things you mentioned. getting out of these trade

deals. doing things that would benefit the middle class, or the workers who voted for president trump. they're not looking for this sort of corporate tax reform that the president's economic advisors are out there talking about. but, look, so if -- if congress manages to pass something and that republicans are able to thread the needle and reconcile the two bills as paul ryan was talking about, you know, then that's -- that doesn't end their political headache that actually starts a whole new one and potentially worse one because they'll have to explain this, and then there's going to be people who aren't benefiting from it, and they'll be stories like that out there, and that will all be in the leadup to the 2018 elections. >> carol lee, thank you. jonathan swan of axios, we'll watch your twitter feed all day for updates on this story. thank you as well. coming up, republicans tell roy moore to step aside if the allegations about him touching a

17 girl are true. we'll talk about the implications for the republican party, plus go live to vietnam for the asian-pacific economic summit where president trump may run into vladimir putin. "morning joe" is coming right back. he trash? (sigh) ( ♪ ) dad: molly! trash! ( ♪ ) whoo! ( ♪ ) mom: hey, molly? it's time to go! (bell ringing) class, let's turn to page 136,

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we make sure you're in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. -♪ a little bit o' soul, yeah welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday, november 10th. i'm nicolle wallace alongside

national foreign affairs analyst msnbc john heilemann, holding down the fort for joe and mika who have the morning off and willie ran across the street for his moonlighting gig. buckle in. also with us, mike barnicle, donny deutsch is here, susan del percio is here. former advisers to president george w. bush, our friend mark mckinnon and white house reporter for "usa today" heidi presbella is here. roy moore of alabama is facing allegations of sexual misconduct and a growing number of republicans are calling for him to step aside if the reports are true. in a new "washington post" report a woman claims that in 1979, moore, then a 32-year-old assistant dont'a hightow distri a sexual affair with her. she and her mother were sitting outside a courtroom. moore approached them, struck up a conversation and offered to watch the girl while her mother

went inside for a custody hearing. one of the "washington post" reporters who broke the story told our katy tur what allegedly happened next. >> after the mother went in, he got her phone number and subsequently picked her up around the corner from her house. drove her about 30 minutes away to his home in the woods twice did that. the first time, there was kissing and then the second time he took off her clothes. he took off his own clothes. he touched her over her bra and underwear, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear. >> nbc news has not independently verified these accusations. corfman never filed a civil suit. she was 16 years old, she was 14. three other women between the ages of 16 and 18 at the time

tell "the post" they, too, were molested by moore. the women did not seek them out and that the paper contacted each of the women separately. the senate candidate now 70 years old denies the allegations, calling the "post" report completely false and a desperate political attack. moore's campaign says, "it is no surprise with just over four weeks remaining in a race for the u.s. senate with national implications that the democratic party and the country's most liberal newspaper would come up with a fabrication of this kind." president trump responded to the allegations overnight. the white house saying, "like most americans, the president believes we cannot allow a mere allegation in this case, one from many years ago, to destroy a person's life. however, the president also believes that if the allegations are true, judge moore will do the right thing and step aside." here's what we've heard from republicans on capitol hill, including senate majority leader

mitch mcconnell. >> if these allegations are true, roy moore should step aside. for all the obvious reasons. very disturbing allegations. >> well, it's a devastating, nasty story. if the revelations, if that's true, i don't believe there would be any place for him in the u.s. senate. >> it's very, very disturbing, what i read about i'll have more to say about it after i learn more frchlts they're true? step aside. >> obviously what i've heard, i haven't read them, are very serious f. there is any shred of truth to these stories, he ought to step aside, now. >> reporter: would he be fit to serve in the senate if this was true? >> no. no. no. if there's any shred of truth, he ought to step aside immediately. >> while most republican officials couch their statements with, "if these allegations are true," senator john mccain was much more definitive saying in a statement, "the allegations against roy moore are deeply

disturbing and disqualifying. he should immediately step aside and allow the people of alabama to elect a candidate they can be proud of." then there's the reaction from some alabama officials. daniel dale, washington kornt for the "toronto store," among them marion county republican chair david hall told dale, it was 40 years ago. i don't see the relevance. he was 32, she was supposedly 14. she's not saying anything happened other than they kissed. not true. geneva republican chairman who told dale, other than being with an underaged person, he really didn't force himself. i know that's bad enough, but i don't know. if he withdraws it's five weeks to the election. that would concede it to the democrat. he later added that while he doesn't believe the allegations are true, if they are true, he won't support moore. still, he said, it's not forcible rape. he said, it's not forcible rape.

wow. adding, i know that 14-year-olds don't make good decisions. covington county republican chairman william blocker tells dale there is no option to support doug jones. the democratic nominee. when you do that, you're supporting the entire democratic party. and state auditor jim ziegler said, "take joseph and mary. mary was a teenager and joseph was an adult carpenter. they became the parents of jesus." heidi pressbella, how are we at a place where it's worst to have a democrat than a pedophile in the u.s. senate? >> you know it would seem that, nichole, the evidence is in, and these lawmakers are still saying, if true. so they have chosen, it appears, to, again, disbelieve the women. and as a matter of fact, it is too late most likely to get roy moore off the ballot. so the decision that seems to be being made here seeing here in realtime or at the local party

letter and to some extent the national level is to cast their lot with roy moore and just this morning, as a matter of fact, i saw roy moore actually fund-raising off of this. casting himself as the victim of a vicious smear campaign. i think we have every indication of what route is going to be taken, and that the party is going to give itself a lot of leeway to just say this is a he said/she said, knowing that it is -- this is a critical, critical race. why? because right now there are only really two seats that democrats could put in play, in nevada and arizona. if this goes to a democrat, it could actually tip the balance of the senate. so it seems they are going to be all-in with roy moore, at least at this point, unless moore comes out, but right now it's easy to do that, because they can just disbelieve the women. >> let's not paint all republicans with such a broad brush. "the national review" has an

editorial saying roy moore should drop out. i think all republicans we showed intended to say the right thing and the decent thing but in this climate, once a woman puts her name on the record in a story, it is true. that is where we are. so by saying -- i mean, these were named women in this story and they're the victims. not roy moore or fake media. but where do you think the republican party needs to go here? >> where john mccain has gone. god bless john mccain. we've become a party of donald trump and roy moore. >> sure we're at the bottom? >> i don't know how -- >> i'm going to write it down. >> i think what's definitely going to happen in alabama is roy moore is not going to get off the ballot. he's going to run. he's either going to win or split the ballot with a write-in and the democrat will win. that's the outcome of the alabama situation. i want to disagree with my friend john a little about an independent candidacy. i think it will happen in 2020. all compassionate, conservative

republicans are not going to run with donald trump. they're going to go run as an independent kacandidacy, and an establish republican ticket, democrat as a vp is a strong ticket. >> my friend mark where we used to be. used to be on the same page. i watched mark, try to wage this fight for a candidate. so far with utter futility i have learned from your futility, it's a futile effort. you continue to wage the good fight. good luck, if you can win that battle, that's great. susan, ask you this it question again. mark's a nominal semihemidemi republican but you are an actual republican. >> a real republican. >> right now your party seems to be divided over the question of pedophilia. by its standard bearer in the alabama senate race. explain to me how a, your party, can be a plausible party in american life, if there is a

question over whether a pedophile can be the standard bearer for one of the 100 seats in the united states senate? >> simply point, they cannot, and it will start with the first thing we have to see senator mcconnell come out and say i will no longer fund roy moore. i said earlier last hour that the question should be posed, do you believe these women? now i think slightly different. it's saying, are you calling these women liars? because, really, nicolle was right in her intro. these women, they put their name out there. they are to be believed. now it's up to the senators. do you want to call them a liar? if not, then call out roy moore. >> i understand that point. this is, i think, the biggest point of the show, way beyond politics and i want to hear, again, nicolle, you were so passionate and articulate in the first hour and i want to hear from heidi. explain to men, so it's not a he said/she said, what it's like, when a woman does come forward, what she is putting on the line, because i don't think the

average guy, oh, well, she said that. anybody could say anything. >> yeah. >> i don't think the average guy understands the point that you were really making that when a woman does come forward, almost that in and of itself, when four of them do, and, you know, heidi, please, articulate to any man out there that doesn't understand why that's not an allegation at that point, because what they're putting on the line. >> well, because they're understanding what is going to happen to their reputation and how their reputation, critics will try to tear apart everything about them, and as a matter of fact, apparently, at least one of these women, preemptively put information out there about herself knowing that this is what would happen to her and knowing all of these years that ultimately this is what would happen to her, but also at this point, realizing this is a critical point for the country and that she just couldn't keep it inside anymore, but knowing that as a person, and in terms of her family, that they might suffer, and that -- in a

personal sense, she has no reason to want to put herself out there like that, to be torn apart, and -- and put in the middle of a big political fight. >> let me just say -- i have never been in this circumstance but have covered the cosby accusers, we've all lived through the weinstein accusers and when you see -- there is no glory for a woman. i mean it is -- it is reliving the most humiliating, the most debasing moments, days or hours of a woman's life, to put this in the newspaper attached to her name, and as heidi says, the story is in exquisite piece of journalism, because whoever did these interviews got these women to understand not just the -- the risks they were taking to their own reputations. the risk they were taking that they wouldn't be believed, i think to retraumatize the women is to say, if true. to retraumatize the women is to say, if this costs him the election. i mean, yes, it's true, because no woman lies about being sexually molested as

14-year-old, or being taken advantage of, and it was -- >> again, these are women not even for money or lawsuits. >> no up side. >> if they only had something to lose. these women are coming from small communities. not movie stars. >> and it's not one. >> these are women going to the supermarket every day. some of their children are in school. real risks they're putting out. >> especially in a place like alabama. >> exactly. >> and against roy moore. >> not to take anything away, the actresses that came out were brave and brilliant and are our heroes. gwyneth paltrow has an oscar, a job a career and a lot of wealth. the victims in this story, and i'm sure she would agree and most women took great risk. >> even for them it took 30 years. >> it is harder when you have nothing to gain, everything to lose. to see people on television say, oh, if true. it's true. >> or that happened a long time ago. >> even worse. >> michael, let me ask you this question. so we've now had a president over the course of the last ten

months who invoked fake news over and over again on a variety of fronts. usually anything he doesn't agree with or in anyway critical of him is fake news. right? a lot of republicans have sort of sat quietly by and sometimes joined the chorus of fake news. it's convenient. they like to attack the liberal media. now we're in a place, seems like, this may not be the end point but a dramatic moment where the fake news toxins seeped out from the would us into the whole party where you have roy moore essentially saying, here's a woman accusing me of pedophilia. it's fake news. and there are a bunch of republicans who either are joining that chorus, or sort of going to go along with it, tacitly. is this not like one of the most pernicious ways in which the fake news chorus is going to infect our politics in a way that really becomes like kind of morally repulsive? >> well, to the question you just posed, one of the most effective things, perhaps the only effective thing that donald trump has done is to brand fake

news on to the stamp of this country and a lot of people buy it, but we're talking about roy moore and all of the other stories that, the -- you know, the comedians on the front page of the paper, the people of power on the front pages of the paper, who abuse and harass a woman. we're talking about it in the context of either politics or entertainment, or, you know, license to, you know, do something wrong with women, bad with women. but out there in country, when you get ay way from this table, it's bigger than that. >> yeah. >> and it's -- it's this. it's -- growing up. the bar of tolerance and acceptability was here and then when i was 25, it lowered to here. and now the bar of acceptance and tolerance is down here. now it's roy moore, and now it's, if the allegations are true. not, do you believe the woman. do you look at these women, these women did not come forward to score political points, to

defeat a candidate. they came forward for various reasons, out of humiliation, out of living with the humiliation for 20, 30, 40 years. that's where it is on a human level. in all due deference about some third-party candidate now has a better shot in 2020. it's about what's happening to our culture? slowly but surely. >> rotting. >> in front of our eyes. >> i have to just say, this is about women, they're the victims and they're the heroes but also about men. i mean, 99% of men don't do any of this. i mean -- you know, there's no one else we know of in the u.s. senate, no other republicans accused of anything like this. so they malign themselves by standing with roy moore. >> yes. >> okay. this -- this -- we're -- >> you're going to turn us to dictators? >> we're going to come back to this story again. another big story to kind about here relates to another thing beyond anyone's comprehension. this past sunday nbc news had

fresh reporting. bob mueller has enough evidence to bring charges in the michael flynn investigation, coincides with reporting this morning from the "wall street journal," which says that according to people familiar with the investigation, mueller is investigating an alleged plan involving former white house national security adviser michael flynn to forcibly remove a muslim cleric living in the united states and deliver him to turkey. under the alleged proposal, michael flynn and his son junior, paid $15 million for delivering this cleric to president erdogan. the bureau asked at least four individuals about a meeting in mid-december at the 21 club here in new york city, flynn and the turkish government representatives discussed removing the cleric. by i say removing, kidnapping the cleric. those discussions allegedly involved the possibility of transporting him on a private jet to a turkish prison island according to one of the people that spoke to the fbi. a spokesman for mueller declined

to comment and for mr. flynn and flynn jr. we discussed this a little earlier today. i amgasted by this story as i am about the story of roy moore. make this as clear as possible. punitive, national security adviser of the united states of america, in the transition, before he was about to become the national security adviser was allegedly plotting to kidnap an muslim cleric from america to put him in a turkish prisonwhat mueller is investigating. i wondered your thoughts? i believe nothing on this order, strange things. >> as we said earlier, could the bar get any lower? this is an astonishing development, the sort of thing you read either in fiction or a third world authoritarian government. so -- i mean, and it just testifies to how broad the net's

going and how deep it goes, and as you've said all along, john, this is not the middle or the end but the beginning of a net that is really getting wide and bad. >> and i want to ask you, heidi, this investigation obviously has a lot of legs. michael flynn has been at center of it pretty much from the very beginning. what are you hearing up on capitol hill and elsewhere about how people see mueller's focus on a number of tracks on the flynn investigation and what it might mean for donald trump? >> just making it harder to not face the facts that now have two people with paul manafort and michael flynn now who may have been essentially acting as foreign agents while they were on the campaign, and at a time when the president is trying to -- or this is a president, rather, who came in promising to drain the swamp. this is kind of like the very bottom of what you would expect to find at the washington swamp. and i just think it's going

to -- even if this is totally unrelated to the trumps, and let's say they knew nothing about it, at a minimum, it goes to what kind of vetting was going on in this campaign, and that will be questions as well about what the trumps at least knew about it, even if they weren't part of it. >> i feel we're into, in borne territory now. >> i said that last hour. >> a trump ultimatum. you know? >> the competent jason borne. the flynns were not good at borne-ism. >> absolutely incredible. >> and somehow will lead back to russia. >> of course it is. >> to heidi's point, though, about vetting a campaign is a vitticcal point, when you look at the nominees for many, many posts. that trump proposed. when you look at the campaign people, who were attracted to the trump campaign and worked in the trump campaign. who would hire them? >> well, nobody. we actually -- that's not a joke. nobody. and i think that steve bannon in the interview with jeremy peters

we'll look at later said it was an island of misfit toys. the people on the campaign, part of the misfits on the island with the other toys sdroib one anoth describe one another. >> bears saying again. michael flynn, national portfolio spent most of the time on the plane with donald trump throughout the campaign in 2015. he was the guy trump loved having around, he was close to. and in parallel with that, he's engaged in trying to engineer, apparently, at least mueller is investigating the possibility, that he was engaged in, creating a kidnapping and rendition plot for this muslim cleric living here in the united states. i find it extraordinary. and remember, one of the things trump and jim comey talked about before jim comey was fired the notion of trump saying to comey, michael flynn is a good guy. let's not investigate him. couldn't you let this go? flynn's a good dude. >> right. >> exactly. and it's worth pointing out that

nbc's investigative unit has a lot of this reporting on sunday other folk, catching up to that bob mueller's investigators have had enough information on mike flynn and his son to bring charges, if and when they are ready. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i think he showed his contempt for really the trump movement in those actions. so, yes. mitch mcconnell has to go. >> do you think mitch mcconnell will be majority leader at this time next year? >> i absolutely do not. >> is that your personal mission to make that not happen? >> not my personal mission but an objective, i have an objective mitch mcconnell will not be majority leader and it will be done before this time next year. >> steve bannon outlines his insurgency. an interview with the "new york times." we'll talk to jeremy peters, we just saw there conducting that interview but first live to vietnam where president trump arrived overnight for an economic summit. will he rub elbows with president putin? you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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. the current trade imbalance is not acceptable. i do not blame china or any other country of which there are many for taking advantage of the united states on trade. if their representatives are able to get away with it, they are just doing their jobs. i wish previous administrations in my country saw what was happening, and did something about it. i am always going to put america first. the same way that i expect all of you in this room to put your countries first. that was president trump speaking at the apec summit in vietnam early this morning, but looming over the president's

visit is a possible meeting with russian president vladimir putin. joining us from vietnam with a little audio delay nbc news national correspondent peter alexander. peter what is the white house saying about the prospects of that, i guess is polocide with vladimir putin? >> reporter: yes. nicolle, good morning to you. eke here in danang. the president heading over any minute for what will be a world dinner with the economic summit. the first time that presidents trump and vladimir putin have been in the same place at the same time in four months. the president on air force one as he headed over to asia for this trip hinted at the idea that he and putin would meet, but today we're hearing from sarah huckabee sanders, who in fact, is disputing that idea. here's specifically what she said. there is no formal meeting or anything scheduled for them. now they're going to be in the same place. will they bump into each other and say hello?

possible and likely. in terms of a scheduled, formal meeting, there's not one on the calendar and we don't anticipate that there will be one. obviously, this comes against the backdrop of the investigation back home into russia's interference, their meddling in the 2016 election. secretary of state rex tillerson yesterday telling us there would be no reason for the presidents to meet, unless the u.s. felt confident there was something substantive to talk about specifically on ukraine and on syria. there are new reports today that the u.s. and russia are nearing a deal on how to resolve the syrian civil war. specifically, differences on what the future of bashar al assad should be. remember when they met, presidents putin and trump, met in hamburg many months ago. one sitdown, the president assured by have have that they didn't interfere in the election and then that dinner, where the president, president trump, walk over to president putin and the two men visited for an extended period of time with no american translator, only a russian

translator. we'll watch that closely. another piece of suspense, whether president trump will make a fashion statement. apec statement, world leaders donned matching jackets, shirts or ponchos, your old boss president bush did. will he join in that tradition tonight? america will be waiting to see. >> i want to see that. >> nbc's peter alexander, you are absolutely right. air force one, during the bush presidency, was obviously a lot of serious things happen on that plane. one of the funniest things that happened was they would unveil that year's outfit for the apec summit, and i know that bush always, who was a good sport. i think every world lead hear this in common. those outfits are not anything you would reach into your closet and pick out by choice. it's out of respect for a custom. >> we'll be looking forward to this. i can't wait to see donald trump in one of these outfits.

>> clinton, that was classic. i think that was indonesia. >> the other thing about the meeting, why on earth would president trump meet with vladimir putin right now? >> he always does. i guess, let me put it the other way. why wouldn't he? he always does. >> he likes vladimir putin a lot. >> he's had harsher things to say about jeff sessions than vladimir putin. why would he not meet with him? >> because it doesn't look good. >> before we get to such a meeting we should remember what we just saw on a clip. we saw the sitting president of the united states being critical of the united states government and past presidents. something that has never occurred on foreign soil, never occurred in my lifetime. i don't know about you. i have no memory of it and the same president assuming office junked the tpp, the trans-pacific partnership because it was crafted by he who must not be named, and by junking that, gave up all effort of trade. never before. >> american leadership, on foreign soil. >> not the first time on this trip. >> the second or third time i believe he's trashed previous

administrations on this trip. >> so it's no mystery, then, i guess, why bob corker, chairman of the senate foreign relations committee is holding a meeting to discuss all of this. coming up, steve bannon weighs in on mitch mcconnell, the news media, the russia probe and much, much more. the "new york times" jeremy peter join us us with major takeaways from his one-on-one with the far right fire brand. "morning joe" will be right back.

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i think the collusion thing is, i've said from day one is a joke. i was there. we couldn't collude. we had a tough time colluding between the trump campaign, pennsylvania and the rnc. right? all of our stuff is a ground game. look, have marginal guys and they were definitely margin's people early on in the campaign. it was an island of misfit toys. >> manafort wasn't marginal, though. >> he'll have his day in court, to -- but, you know, it should not be lost on you my first executive decision was a talk with jared and the president manafort had to go. >> you fired him?

>> yeah. >> what did happen between manafort and the trump campaign and russia? >> i have no idea, and it's not relevant. >> hillary clinton and the -- >> not relevant in did it change the outcome of the election. >> steve bannon saying he knows the russians are "bad guys" and the russia investigation is nothing but "fake news." bring together jeremy peters, conducting that wide-ranging and ex-ent interview with steve bannon and host of the podcast with friends like these, crooked media. jeremy, fantastic. well shot in addition to compelling on a variety of levels. >> thank you. >> we gave a couple highlights. i want you to talk in a wide-ranging way, you hit the whole gamut here of what we got on the record from mr. bannon yesterday. >> we thought it was an intri e intriguing idea to have steve bannon come inside the headquarters of the opposition

party. right? >> fake news central. >> how did that happen, by the way? >> it was his idea. i proposed the interview. we had had a podcast set up for a while and i said i'll come to you. he said no. why don't i come to the "new york times"? steve is, as you know, a creature of the media. almost more than she a creature of politics. so he understands the importance not just of getting his message out on avenues like breitbart but in coming to the "new york times," talking to charlie rose on "60 minutes." much as he rales the political establishment, he is trying to rip apart the republican party and displace leadership at the top. >> you have a long relationship with him and he's been talking to you a long time, from back before a lot of people didn't really know who steve bannon was. >> that's right. >> how does he -- do you think he's at this moment -- we'll play more of interview in second, but do you think he's

happ happier? he seems happier than when trapped in that place called 1600 pennsylvania avenue? >> yes. he says he's got his hands on his weapons, so to speak. he sees breitbart and the money soon at his disposal if it's not already from donors like the mercers to attack the political establishment, the republican leadership and he is much freer to do that outside the white house. >> he's not of bureaucracy? >> no, a destroyer, disrupter. he doesn't work inside institutions, he tears them down. >> does he view any of these things as his personal failings? does he take responsibility for roy moore? his hand-picked candidate jncht. >> i very heard him putting any distance between he and roy moore and i think they have to

answer to that. >> the mercers have to answer to that. a pedophile they funded. >> and in the "access hollywood" tape, a coincidence that the "washington post" broke both of these stories? no more than the "washington post" is a good newspaper. right? good reporters. he's not just not taking responsibility but actively continuing to -- provide cover. >> we want to watch more of that. jeremy also talked about president trump's appeal with white nationalists. >> 100% and by the way, they realized they think the only way to run is by spearing you to be a massage niflisogynistmisogyni >> they're touting his name, saying, heil trump! >> nobody cares. no meaningful purpose. they're so tiny and irrelevant. >> heidi?

>> jeremy, it's become a washington parlor game here guessing about how much bannon is actually still in touch with trump. did he allude to that at all? secondly, i'm curious what he actually thinks of this tax cut discussion. what we know from bannon is that he was actually reportedly a little bit in favor of the whole tax the rich approach and then you have folks like ann coulter saying this is for wall street. i'm kwhurs curious what he thin big tax cut, corporate tax cut? >> asked about that before. didn't come up in think podcast but i asked how is president trump, this economic populist, going to sell this tax cut to a working class base that basically voted for trump as a rejection of the davos class of the elite, the wall street? and bannon said to me, well, look, you'll remember reading reports that i was in favor of top tax bracket over 40%. he does believe in that.

you know, i think that that's going to be the trick here. is selling this tax cut as something more than just a corporate giveaway. >> and i want to ask you this. big setup on this question. you've got -- first you've got roy moore, who's a steve bannon guy. you had ed gillespie, last weekend, bannon saying, hey, ed gillespie is running on the trump agenda. soon as he lost, threw him under the bus. oh, he didn't embrace the trump agenda enough. got him claiming in previous interviews he was the one that kept chris christie from getting a job on-of-in the administration. a lot of people saying that's not true. and responsible for firing paul manafort. not sure there's evidence that that's true. like a free-style anihilist. he also says to jeremy that he is predicting mitch mcconnell will be gone. no majority leader, and that he is -- kind of his personal

mission. how does the republican party deal with this guy and the fact that he remains close to donald trump? >> i think the republican party is in trouble. we can talk about this all day. the operative word you used is nihilist. you can't deal with somebody who doesn't care about hostages. he has no investment in any of this. also the problem with dealing with trump. that trump has no interest behind, besides his own immediate, like, personal enrichment or personality, ego enrichment. i think bannon is similar in that he just wants to burn it all down. some people just want to watch the world burn. i think the good news is that, that is of limited use in bidding a real movement. you guys were talking about third-party candidates and independent candidates earlier. something that happened tuesday i don't think is getting enough attention is the democratic socialists of america, higher office holdings increased by 71%. won in places like upstate new

york in duluth, minnesota, won in buffalo. won in virginia. and that's the kind of, like, ground-level building of a party that really counts. you guys all know this. >> steve bannon's legacy. allow the democratic party to rebuild itself. >> and the democratic socialists of america to become a major party. >> and the democratic socialists, degenerates end up doing -- thank you, steve bannon. >> i think it's not because he's sinister, eli said it yesterday. he's an incompetent boob not good at this. thank you, we'll be watching this on msnbc.com. and still ahead this morning, the president's former bodyguard gives his insight into some of the most salacious allegations in the trump dossier. we're back in a moment. business is in my blood. i'm the daughter of two entrepreneurs and had a front-row seat to the excitement and demands that come with running a company. as a business owner myself, i know that the challenges are

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veterans pledged an oath to support and defend the constitution. they put the country's interests ahead of their own. now they've returned to a

country ripped apart by partisanship. supporting this new generation who run for office, pledge to work together and get things done regardless of their party. we help level the playing field who don't have deep pockets or special access. these are lifelong commitments. these veterans are answering the call to serve again. the military continues to be the most trusted institution in america. congress is among the least trusted. ahead, we'll talk to a former marine whose new mission is to get more veterans elected to capitol hill. "morning joe" is coming right back. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira,

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coupled with the crept state of our politics, it's the perfect time for our next guest. joining us now is a veteran of the u.s. marine corps who served in iraq, co-founder and ceo of the newly launched organization withhonor.org which supports the next generation of veterans running for office. thank you very much for being here. i love that this is really o e oh people talk about post partisanship. you're putting it into action. you back democrats and republicans. >> we like to say we're a cross-partisan organization. it was actually founded by veterans. we launched yesterday. our mission is to elect the next generation of veterans running for office so they can fix our broken politics. it's no surprise that dysfunction in congress and

partisanship is at record high. veteran representation in congress might be near a record low. >> why is that? >> i think two things. one, there are fewer americans that serve in uniform now. the biggest factor, and we're seeing this with next generation vets running across the united states, over 100 of them, republicans, democrats, independents. the barriers to entry are ridiculous right now because of the cost. the cost of elections by elections has gone up by over 5x in 20 years. some of these young men and women are not affluent, not part of the political class. that creates just an incredible impediment. what we're doing with with honor, we're selecting the most capable and competitive 25 to 35 cross partisan next generation vets. they served after 9/11 for the most part and putting strategic national resources behind them for 2018. >> rye, talk about what benefits veterans, especially veterans who have come out of a tour,

multiple tours in iraq and afghanistan, what benefits they bring to public office in terms of discipline, unit cohesion, pride. >> i saw this firsthand with my own service in iraq. you learn how to put the country first. you know what service means, what it means to serve something that's larger than yourself. that's really important. it's part of the reason why we don't -- our screen for candidates doesn't look at policy. it looks at character and really specific character. we have a pledge actually on our website with honor.org which is values based. three primary values, integrity, civility and courage. that includes the courage to work across the aisle and do really concrete things like co-sponsor a piece of legislation each year, meet with somebody from the other side, build a coalition. you need a coalition. >> talk about the demographics of your squad, your platoon, your company.

>> americans from all walks of life. one of our advisory board members, next generation veteran named elliot ackerman, served in the marines, just awarded national book award finalist. he used to refer to this as the school of the nation. the marines i served with came from all walks of life. a lot of them, i didn't know what party they were in. if i do know what party they were in, i didn't care. we focus on getting things done, and that's the power of this. no one individual -- it's impossible for a single individual to fix something as messed up as congress. but if you can actually build a coalition, and it's not a huge number -- if you can get 30, 40 of these individuals -- and it's possible. there are already some that are in there, some of whom i know and served with, you can get at critical marks you can start turning the page on things. our country needs this. >> smart strategists in both parties will be actively recruiting veterans. the way people feel about

politics, they're looking for people like veterans, people who put country first, serve a cause greater than yourself. in terms of what voters are looking for, putting aside the barrier for entry, that's exactly what they want to see. >> i think voters are also sick of the partisanship. ten years ago i saw the number of unaffiliated americans was 30%. now it's as high as 40%. >> largest growing political party. >> we're not asking you to drop your label. we're saying, we're backing real republicans, real democrats, if there are some independents that can run and be competitive, it's extremely hard because of the cost, but we'd be there for them. that es are people that will put the country first. >> let me ask you this question, kind of a hard question. you look at the polling. people say the military veterans are the most respected, et cetera. the institution we respect most, veterans have high levels of respect.

people want to put their hand on the heart and give you guys a moment at athletic events and so on. yet, in fact, a lot of that respect doesn't really translate into support. we see what happens to veterans who come back. they don't get the kind of support for ptsd and other things. a lot of times it doesn't translate into concrete action. how do you take the notional support for veterans and turn it into votes? that seems like a real barrier. a lot of people want to put their hand over their heart but don't want to really do anything for veterans or be concrete about it. >> it's a serious issue. we have a concrete way they can actually contribute. go on our website and contribute. this is a startup organization. we're just getting off the ground. we've got a group of great americans involved, some of the next generation veterans, some of our most respected senior leaders, admiral michael mullen, secretary of state robert gates. >> as a man who put country first and you heard the stories we're talking about, senatorial

candidate being accused of being a pedophile, former national security adviser being accused of kidnapping. as a person who has wrapped themselves in a flag to protect it, your gut reaction this morning? >> i can't even follow the news stream it's so intense these days. >> join the club. >> you're all living it. it points to a degradation of values. we are losing our rudder. joe scarborough wrote this op ed yesterday. this is larger than any single individual, this polarization. it's not sustainable for our country. but we can do something about it and we can support some of these individuals who are sacrificing a lot to run. they really are. a lot of them have young kids, they've served, they spend 14, 15 hours on the phone dialing for dollars. why are they doing it? why are they doing it? one word, service. >> service and they just might save our country. the organization is withhonor.org, rye barcoff

thanks. allegations roy moore molested a 14-year-old gir. we'll have the reaction. we'll talk to republican congressman scott taylor of virginia. he's a veteran and he has no problem saying that tuesday's election was a referendum on donald trump. we'll get willie back for the top of the hour thank god. "morning joe" comes right back. no, thanks , santa, i got this. looks a little tight. perfect fit. santa needs an f-150. that's ford, america's best selling brand. hurry in today for 0% financing for 72 months across the full line of ford cars, trucks and suvs! and just announced... get 0 % apr for 72 months plus $1000 cash back! take advantage of these exclusive holiday offers during the ford year end sales event. the markets change... at t. rowe price... our disciplined approach remains. global markets may be uncertain... but you can feel confident in our investment experience around the world.

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that report the truth. if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. good morning. it's friday, november 10th.

i'm here alongside the host of msnbc's deadline white house, making a rarerly morning -- >> it's not that rare. i'm always up at this hour. >> former kmurn cases director for george w. bush the great nicolle wallace. national affairs analyst for msnbc and nbc john heilemann. msnbc contributor mike barnicle. donny deutsch is here, susan del pers i don't. nbc news national political reporter carol lee. roy moore of alabama facing allegations of sexual misconduct. a growing number of republicans calling for him to step aside they say in the reports are true. in a new "washington post" story a woman claims in 1979, moore, a 32-year-old district attorney had a sexual encounter with a woman when she was only 14 years old. she tells the post she and her mother were sitting outside a courtroom when moore approached them, struck up a conversation

and offered to watch the girl while her mom went inside for a child custody hearing. one of the reporters who broke the story told our katy tur what allegedly happened next. >> after the mother went in, he got her phone number and subsequently picked her up around the corner from her house, drove her about 30 minutes away to his home in the woods, twice did that. the first time there was kissing and then the second time he took off her clothes, he took off his own clothes, he touched her over her bra and underwear and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear. >> nbc news has not independently verified these accusations. she never filed a police report and has not filed a civil suit. the age of consent in alabama was then and is now 16 years old. again, she was 14. three other women who were between the ages of 16 and 18 at the time tell the post they, too, were pursued by moore but

he never forced them in any sort of relationship or sexual contact. the post indicates that the women did not seek them out and that the paper contacted each of them separately. the senate candidate now 70 years old denies the allegations, calling the report, quote, completely false and a desperate political attack. moore's campaign says, quote, it is no surprise with just over four weeks remaining in a race for the u.s. senate with national implications that the democratic party and the country's most liberal newspaper would come up with a fabrication of this kind. president trump responded to the allegations overnight, the white house saying, quote, like most americans the president believes we cannot allow a mere allegation, in this case one from many years ago, to destroy a person's life. however, the president also believes if these allegations are true, judge moore will do the right thing and step aside. here is what we've been hearing from republicans on capitol hill including senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. >> if these allegations are

true, roy moore should step aside for all the obvious reasons. very disturbing allegation. >> it's a devastating nasty story. if the revelations -- if that's true, i don't believe there would be anyplace for him in the u.s. senate. >> it's very, very disturbing what i read about. i'll have more to say about it i'm sure after i learn more. >> obviously from what i've heard of them, it's very serious. >> if there is any shred of truth, he ought to step aside. >> would he be fit to serve in the senate if this is true? >> no, no, no. if there's any shred of truth, he ought to step aside. >> while many coach their statements with "if the allegations are true" senator john mccain is much more forceful and definitive. he said, quote, the allegations against roy moore are deeply disturbing and disqualifying.

he should immediately step aside and allow the people of alabama to elect a candidate they can be proud of. let's stimulapulate. we have four women on the record. they told friends, told her mother a couple years later. what should republicans and decent people be saying today? >> i think every republican there went out to do the right thing. they intended to say and do the right thing. but by saying "if the allegations are true" when women many, many years later put their names in the paper -- no woman wants to be dragged into a sexual assault, sexual harassment story. so the fact that -- and i really think it's ignorance, not malice. every time i hear "if they're true," this is the kind of detail journalism that the first harvey weinstein stories included, and no one said "if they're true." >> that's exactly the question,

nicole. the question isn't posed to senators, do you believe the allegations. the question that's posed, do you believe these women? that's the question. >> four women put their name on the story 30 years later with absolutely nothing to gain. >> susan, the reaction from the moore campaign is instructive and we'll get into it from some local alabama republicans which is consider the source. this is the liberal media. instead of considering the allegations, consider who is presenting these allegations. >> the question has to be asked, do you believe these women. it's really that simple. if you do believe them and, as nicole said, they put their names out there. the other question is, of course, what else are we going to see in the next couple weeks. this type of thing as we saw with weinstein, more women tend to come out. it will be an avalanche thing. i think at this point it's up to mitch mcconnell to say i'm no longer putting funding into this race until we see -- if he wants to do the wait-and-see approach,

at least for now he can hold back funding. >> here is the sad part of the story. if no other women come forward and this continues as is, he'll get elect dollar. that's the tragic part of the republican party in alabama. the same way we have republican congressman punched out a reporter on national television, i genuinely believe that the passion and the ignorance to keep the status quo as it is when it comes to race, when it comes to a guy who has gone up and said homosexuality should be against the law, i genuinely believe we are still at a state in this country where he will get elected. that is tragic. >> isn't that the lesson from donald trump as he powered through the "access hollywood" tape. go through it, the people who support you will rally around you and maybe you'll come out of it. >> certainly was the case for donald trump. whether it's the case for roy moore is another question. that race was getting closer. one of the things that happened as a result of what happened in virginia and new jersey and other places on tuesday,

democrats were on the fence about whether to go down and try to make a push in alabama. if you see republicans running away from moore. if the party abandons him in terms of support and money. if democrats decide to go down and make a push with the candidate who is not a bad candidate for alabama, this race can get pretty tight pretty fast. i understand done any's point. there have been a lot of places where republicans in red parts of the country have done things unacceptable and still survived. i don't know in this race given the climate right now and the focus on these issues, this race could, with just a little bit of the right kind of -- the chips falling just the right way, this race could end up being a race the democrats could win a month from now. if it happens, it will be the biggest most dramatic political manifestation. >> it's going to test conservative media, too. the first conservative media outlet to circle around him was breitbart. they said of all the

allegations, the only one would be illegal would be molesting a 14-year-old. you saw on fox news he had a lot of defenders. this is going to test two things, one, the depths and depravity of conservative media who defend roy moore who is known to be a pedophile unless you don't believe these women reliving their worst moments. two, it's going to test whether this toxic slogan of feake news has made people immune to facts. >> you have a uniquely receptive audience in the state of alabama. >> how about the lovely state auditor with the bible defense -- >> let's just -- >> i'm here to tee it up. >> donny just mentioned this. daniel dale for the toronto star, compiling reaction from more republican figures in alabama. among them, marion county republican chair david hall who told dale, quote, it was 40

years ago, i really don't see the relevance of it. she was 32. she was supposedly 14. she's not saying anything that happened other than they kissed. actually that's not true. geneva county republican chairman who told dale, quote, other than being with an under age person, he didn't really force himself. if he withdraws, it's five weeks to the election, that would concede it to the democrat. he later added while he doesn't believe the allegations are true, if they are true, he won't support moore. still he said it's not forcible rape, adding i know that 14-year-olds don't make good decisions. >> how about 30-year-old men? >> the politics have so corrupted people that the defense of the tribe super seeds a 14-year-old girl saying she was raped? is that where we are? >> that's where we are. >> 14! >> i have a question i would like to pose for all the good

people, enormous numbers of good people in dothan, alabama, birmingham, if a 32-year-old man came into your driveway to pick up your 14-year-old daughter, what would your reaction be? >> they would shoot them. >> this is instructive how this is playing. covington county republican chairman william block card tells dale, quote, there is no option to support doug jones, the democratic nominee. when you do that you are supporting the entire democrat party. state auditor jim zeigler -- >> this is what i was talking about. >> take joseph and mary. mary was a teenager and joseph was an adult carpenter. they became parents of jesus. that's not a parody, that's mott the on i don't know, not making that up. that is an actual quote from a republican official in the state of alabama. >> what's happening to us? we set this backdrop, we see the louis ck stuff. what's happening to us? where are we going?

is there such dooef yapt see that lives inside so many men and we still as we saw those defenses, that the humanity is sucked out. >> obviously such a larger issue here with everything that's gone on recently over the past few years. you can almost hear the nuts and bolts of the under sfruk tour of our culture loosening as everything becomes more permissible, everything becomes more public and the longer it's public it becomes in an odd way sort of acceptable. you just roll with it. >> how is it possible that you get to this stage where electing a democrat is worse than electing a deviant? >> still ahead on "morning joe," as joe writes in "the washington post," tuesday's election proves it, american politics are a disast disaster. our table has thoughts on that next on "morning joe." it naturally begins to change,

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joe was writing this morning in "the washington post," tuesday's election proves it, american politics are a disaster. he writes it might be comforting to believe that tuesday's election was a political primal scream. some may conclude that a democratic sweep will follow along with the impeachment of trump. that ignores the more profound meaning. just how unmoored american politics have become in the 21st century. even if tuesday's election be lynns the long process of removing the president from office, americans will be left with the cycle -- break apart the two-party duopoly that's kept us too directionless for too long. this idea of a third party, system is broken, going to run a third party. never worked with a candidate

who has a chance to win really. is it different this time? is it getting different? >> i spent the weekend last weekend out with the trump voters, the democrats who voted for trump in pennsylvania and ohio. they're still enthusiastic about him. as much as they love him, look at 7% of the country that's appalled by him and repelled by him. i do think -- i've never been a fan, never been a proponent or believer that a third party can do anything other than serve as a spoiler for the party with whom he or she is most aligned. i think we're in this moment. mike and i were talking about the book "the unwinding" about how we're unraveling. we are unraveled. we're unwound. the book needs to be updated and called "unwound." we are all on our knees. there is an openness to something different. but it would have to be built around competence, not ideology. i think part of what repels people is this tribalism we've been talking about and the depraved defending of the

indefensible because they're in your transcribe. i think a third party movement would have to be based around that, that's not ideological and grassroots. >> in every other area of our life we have more choices than ever before. we grew up with six tv channels. there used toub two peanut butters. >> that's not a good thing here. you stand there for like an hour. >> this is the only area in modern western civilization that has not evolved to kind of more choices. we still live in this a or b world, and we are not in an a or b world. i don't have the prescription, but it's not mirror who we are anymore which is just take one or take the other and go home. >> in new york, syracuse, the fifth largest city, elected mayor on tuesday that did not come from a major party who ran as and independent with 54% of the vote. as a matter of fact, he came from a prominent republican

family. but the fact that he was able to get 54% of the vote in a democratic kratic city and now goes in as an independent does show i think with everything that nicole lied out especially on the grassroots level with the right candidate, people are open to it. we are starting to see a little bit of a break here. >> john, if you look at last year, donald trump is not really a republican. he's an independent candidate. bernie sanders is not a democrat. he's an independent. that spirit is there. the question is can you run without the party apparatus and win on a national level. >> the answer is no to that question. part of the thing to donny's point, we don't have a free market politician. i was a big advocate of the notion that we could get an independent presidential candidate and there could be a third party or an independent movement. the reality is -- the parties have such a vice-like grip over basic fundamental infrastructure ballot access. the people who tried to go around and start this movement realize you take millions of

dollars, go state by state and the parties are profoundly corrupt and have so much control over keeping those a third party out that it just -- it's almost a barrier to that happening even though it's clear there's a huge appetite for something different. the point about trump is the parties as currently constituted are in a period of -- especially the republican party, in a period of terminal breakdown. you're more likely to see the parties dissolve and rebuild themselves rather than like a third alternative. the democratic and republican parties can look different 20 years from now than they do today. >> coming up, republican congressman scott taylor joins the conversation with his party's plan to bounce back after suffering the big losses in tuesday's elections. as you can clearly see,

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welcome back to "morning joe." i'm nicolle wallace alongside john heilemann. we've lost willie again to his other show. >> what happens? >> you don't want to know. >> he doesn't like you. >> i know, but he just left. >> if you were not here, he would be here.

>> he's in high demand. hardest working man in north korea. >> he's at "good morning america," right? >> all of us are back, joining us now, member of the house appropriations committee, retired navy s.e.a.l. and iraq war veteran scott taylor of virginia. you were the first person i saw sort of speaking truth to the world about what tuesday night's election results meant, not just for the country but for the republican party. what kind of feedback have you had since those comments? >> good morning. great to be with you. thank you for having me. it's been fine. honestly a lot of people saw what i saw, of course, certainly in virginia. the feedback has been fine. it's been great. it's been, hey, thanks for telling the truth. it is something that from our party we have to have some self reflection and get lessons learned out of tuesday night and move forward. the american people are a little tired of the tone. i would definitely submit

there's some pretty bad tone from both sides, but it's important to speak the truth. no question about it. >> congressman, you talk about speaking truth. the president's former chief adviser steve bannon isn't having any part of it. he thinks the republican party needs to be purged of mitch mccome and all its establishment figures. i think there are a lot of people, non-practicing republicans is how i describe myself, who welcome your comments. you've got a fight on your hands against trump and trumpism. >> i've been very clear -- i support the president, but not blindly. i think it's important to -- when you do agree, you say you agree. you defend the policies. when you don't, you say you don't. with all due respect to mr. bannon, i understand the frustration because, look, i'm in the house, we've been productive. we have 278 bills sitting in the senate. i understand the frustration. however, i believe in addition not subtraction in terms of politics.

i believe as a republican that we should come together to get things done in a unified way as opposed to being divisive. >> congressman, you had a past life prior to politics. i notice the lapel pin that you're wearing. you were a member of the united states navy whichever one knows today, marine corps birthday works under the marines. only kidding. >> happy birthday marines. >> you were a navy s.e.a.l. wondering about the cosmetics of politician and how it affected you. you come from a place where there's unit discipline, you issue commands, follow commands. it's pretty direct, the language. have you gotten used to the language of politics where it's always couched -- not your language, i'm talking specifically people with the charges yesterday against ray moore they say, well, if those charges are true. the language is couched. your language is not couched. how long does it take you to get used to the language of

politics? >> well, that's a good question. i've been involved now for several years. i spent two terms in the statehouse as well. i've been sort of exposed to it, if you will. myself, personally, i've wanted to be direct and as honest and tell it like it is, and i'll continue to do that. i think it's important that we do that, you're right, from my previous background, no one in my previous teams had any problem with saying exactly what was on their mind. so you're right. but i think it's important to do so. i think the american people want that. i think they want authenticity. i think they want to know what you believe, where you stand and where you don't. that's what i've always tried to do and i will continue to do. >> congressman, we've been talking a lot about ray moore this morning and the allegations against him. i want to know what you make of what you read in "the washington post." do you believe those allegations, and assuming that you do, what do you think that the senate candidate down there in alabama should do?

>> well, i'm not privy to all the details. i've certain li seen it on the periphery. i think people are innocent until they're proven guilty for sure. but at the same time those charges are pretty serious. what i heard about the defense from other folks defending it, it's astounding. i think it's indefensible, completely indefensible. again, the guy is innocent until proven guilty. like you said, if those charges have any merit to them, it's a horrible and despicable and indefensible. >> congressman, donny deutsche. when you say on the until proven guilty, that supp poses that four separate women with nothing to gain and everything to lose are coming forward and lying. so nicole's issue and heidi's issue and all the women on the panel is no, it's not a question of the it's true. it is true if they're coming forward in this way. other than senator john mccain,

yourself and all of your colleagues are hedging in a way that the women, particularly in this panel say, no, there is no hedging here. >> hold on a second now. i'm not hedging anything. what i'm saying to you is, this is the first time i heard there's four women. i'm not privy to all the details. i'm not hedging anything. like i said, i don't know all the situation. but if there's any merit to them, it's indefensible. no question about that. we shouldn't do anything that would pre vent victims from coming forward and speaking out. no question about that. i'm just not privy to all the details. >> congressman, you said you're comfortable disagreeing with the president. where do you see the republican party today? can you talk about where you disagree with the president? how do you see the future of the republican party in the ekt in year or so and where do you see the conflict with the president? >> sure. i agree with a lot of the policies. but i think it is important to me to say where you disagree. look, everybody on that panel

right now, i know you don't have anybody in you lives that you agree with 100% of the time. no one does. it's important to say that. i disagree with some of the rhetoric, the divisive rhetoric. i'm someone who believes in addition instead of subtraction. i believe leading has purpose in moving forward, not dividing them. i don't agree with a lot of the rhetoric. that's probably the biggest thing i disagree with. i think virginians spoke and they agree with me in terms of the tone. that's probably on both sides. >> congressman scott taylor, thank you so much for joining us. >> pleasure being here, thank you. breaking news. he wore the shirt. president trump has arrived at the ap peck gala dinner where he'll dine with regional leaders. >> that's disappointing. that's not even particularly floor rid or embarrassing. >> he doesn't pick it. >> i know. this is disappointing. i wanted him to be more --

>> that looks like something he'd wear. >> on a regular basis. >> mckinnon has that shirt. >> mckinnon has that shirt. >> we should find some of the old footage of baem and bush. they had far worse outfits. >> that looks like just a pair of purple pajamas. >> there's bush. that is a fashion miss. >> i want to see bill clinton. >> go to the picture of trump. as a guy, people come to me for style tips. >> do they really? >> they stop me on the street everywhere. >> that color on him, donald, melania, that works, my son. >> mccoin none, you would wear that, right? >> every one of us is getting the hook right now. mark mckinnon, thank you so much. up next, exclusive reporting from nbc news. we learned today of an alleged plot where michael flynn considered orchestrating the

return to turkey of a chief rival of turkey's president in exchange -- >> kidnapping -- >> that would be it. for millions of dollars. details on a second turk as well. keep it here on "morning joe." david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is

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into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. nchts we're back. at the table author and columnist for the "new york daily news" mike lupica and columnist for "the daily beast" margaret carlson. >> thank you for being here. >> lupica, this is the day, what do you think? what say you? >> what a great question. >> i've been listening to the whole show, and people in washington now attaching if to judge roy moore, this pious

bindle stiff. read the story in "the washington post" and tell me we still have to couch this in the language of a courtroom and give this man the pre assumsumption innocence. >> republicans think the if construction helps them. we are of our day. but it doesn't. it makes them sound like they're giving roy moore the benefit of the doubt when the benefit of the doubt has left him because of four women and 30 other corroborators. >> here is the problem with politics and politicians in this whole thing, and we've seen it evidenced in the past 12 to 24 hours. if you go to a normal human being and ask the question, do you believe these women, do you think these women are lying? those are the questions you ask. we pose the questions in terms of politician on the subject, judge roy moore. when you understand where these women live, where they come from, to come forward is an

incredible act of courage -- >> in alabama, look how governor bentley went on for so long. look at the speaker of the alabama senate who had 23 counts -- indictment against him and was not only re-elected but re-elected majority leader of the senate. this is what you're up against, the power in alabama, a woman to come forward is so courageous. >> we've all worked in journali journalism. >> he's read it though. >> if judge roy moore believes this is fake news and garbage, i have an idea for him. sue "the washington post." sue them. say that you've been defamed. except at that point a little thing called disclosure comes into play and if there are these four women, you think there are not more? >> margaret, there's a turn here, to go to your column.

you wrote about tuesday's results and a particular race in nassau county. there's been a lot of focus on whip and how important women were to what happened in virginia and a lot of other places. we'll talk about that in general, but tieing it to this, it seems this roy moore thing is the exact thing that could cause a problem for republicans in suburban districts all next year. you remember todd akin and how republicans had an answer for todd akin. they'll be talking about roy moore. for a lot of suburban women, this is a thing that's not so good. >> they'll have to get a little more human about it, like a normal person's reaction, not a politici politician's reaction. nassau county by population is the size of new hampshire, the 12th small estate. the idea that somebody from the school board who is on the city council, but nonetheless won against an establishment republican, a democrat hasn't won nassau county executive for 30 years, no woman has ever won

it. jack martin has had all the fund-raising apparatus, all the establishment cred, and she ran simply on, it's not working here. there's a lot of corruption here. there's a corruption tax which we which we forget about. stadiums that are built, property assessments that aren't right. all the things that most of the people who were in the republican party were behind bars so they can't run. but this is why she won and this is why the suburbs are non-fertile ground for republicans going forward. >> going to be a killing field i think. >> in 2009, westchester county, nassau county flipped republican. it was a precursor, exact same thing happened which was unheard of this time around. earlier this week nbc news reported that bob mueller has enough evidence to bring charges in the michael flynn investigation. now according to four people

familiar with the investigation, mueller was investigating whether the former white house national security adviser met with turkish officials after the election where he'd be paid to remove a muslim cleric living in the u.s. and deliver him to turkey, meaning flynn would be secretly carrying out a directive from turkey while in the white house. three people familiar with the probe tell nbc news that the fate of a second turk was also allegedly discussed. this man is facing federal charges in the southern district of new york and was being prosecut prosecuted and ended up being fired by president trump. >> i'm on this story all day. as outrageous as the roy moore story. i want to say it again. incoming national security adviser for the united states of america was engaged, according to this, if true -- i'll use the if true in this case -- in a kidnapping plot where he was going to be paid $15 million to kidnap someone, put them on a plane and engage in a rendition

and stick him in a turkish prison. that person was about to be a national security adviser of the united states. i want to ask you because you've known a couple of those. condi rice, can you imagine her ever doing that? or anyone else in administration in history? >> sally yates went to the white house and said mike flynn can be the subject of plaque male. we always presumed it was by the russianless. >> if you took that script to the studio. >> it sounds like "the blacklis blacklist". >> who are these people? mike asked about about flynn. what happened to him? >> remember the white house counsel asked sally united states why is the department of justice interested in our staffing of the white house? that was the reaction. >> now you have your answer. up next, the ceo of at&t says he has no plans to sell cnn and is ready to fight the trump

administration in court over the mega merger with time warner. we'll have the latest developments next. ♪ what do you want this holiday to smell like? balsam fir? fresh cinnamon? or for something really special... ...'new car smell'. [smelling] don't mind if i do... ♪ ring in the holidays with buick. hurry in to your buick dealer and get 17 percent below msrp on almost every 20-17 sedan model. that's nearly 7-4 hundred on this lacrosse. hurry, offer ends november 14. eight hundred dollars when wet switched our auto and home insurance. with liberty, we could afford a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey. oh. that's my robe. is it? you could save seven hundred eighty two dollars when liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.

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at&t ceo is speaking out about the company's now public feud with the trump administration over its attempt to buy time warner. let's bring in cnbc's dominic

chu. >> randall stephen son basically spoke on the record at yesterday's conference and said he was never told that the price tag of getting his pending acquisition of time warner past federal regulators was to sell cnn. he also said he never offered to sell cnn. meanwhile, a government official familiar with those on going discussions tells us at cnbc that stephen son did, in fact, offer to sell cnn to appease regulators and the justice department is still looking at a possible combination or some kind of sale of the turner-related assets at time warper or directv or some combination. stephen son claims this deal doesn't hurt competition or comers in either way. meanwhile, according to an official in the chinese ministry of finance, the country will look to allow foreign companies

to take bigger stakes in companies. it's now capped at 49%, but likely raised to 51%. no timetable was given. separately we all know there are around 37 major deals inked by u.s. and china during president trump's trip through asia. he's pushing individual trade agreements as opposed to the larger multinational rp deals. disney found footing, and this is interesting, it said it's going to price its not-yet-released streaming video service that competes be w netflix, price it sub stamly below netflix. ceo bob eiger made the comments adding that disney's movie library, as it gets bigger, the price will be adjusted. interesting for me as a "star wars" fan, they'll launch a new trilogy completely separate from the skywalker story lines. >> my house spends a lot on

disney movies, too. mike lupica, final thoughts? >> this cnn thing, this is a shakedown. this is what authoritarian governments do, try to marj lies the press. this falls into this. >> the head of the antitrust division said this was a fine merger, it's vertical, there were no issues. no u he's got the job and he's agreeing with trump and it's basically trump doesn't like jeff zucker at cnn and he thinks he's king and he's declared the merger shouldn't go through. >> mike lupica and margaret carlson, thank you both. from star trek to the simpson's, a lot of attempts to humanize the almighty. >> bruce, i'm god. >> not what you expected, huh? i picked a look you could understand. >> oh, don't gravel. one thing i can't stand is people gofling. >> excuse me. i'd like to ask a question. what does god need with a

starship. >> sometimes even i'd rather be watching football. >> there's a deeper discussion, people, about the human compulsion to fashion god in our own image. it's the subject of a compellin. joe and mika talk to the author next on "morning joe." [ keyboard clacking ] [ click ] [ keyboard clacking ]

[ clacking continues ] good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth. if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons.

and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. hesumatra reserve told in the time it takes to brew your cup. let's go to sumatra. where's sumatra? good question. this is win. and that's win's goat, adi. the coffee here is amazing. because the volcanic soil is amazing. making the coffee erupt with flavor. so we give farmers like win more plants. to grow more delicious coffee. that erupts with even more flavor. which helps provide for win's family. and adi the goat's family too. because his kids eat a lot. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters. packed with goodness. the updates you made to your plan strengthened your retirement score. so, that goal you've been saving for, you can do it. we can do this? we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools

are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. nana, let's do this! aye aye, captain! ♪ and as you go through life -whoo! -♪ tryin' to reach your goal joining us now, professor at the university of california riverside, well-known scholar of religion and best-selling author, rissa issan. he writes this, the very prosperous, through which the concept of god arose in human evolution compel us, consciously or not, to fashion god in our own image. in fact, the entire history of human spirituality can be viewed as one long interconnected, ever evolving and remarkably cohesive effort to make sense of the divine by giving it our emotions

and personalities, by ascribing it our traits and our desires. by providing it with our strengths and our weaknesses. even our own bodies, in short, by making god us. that's incredible. we're going to try and talk about god in a short segment here on "morning joe." joe, why don't you start us off? >> so you say we're hard wired to make god in our own image. you also though, you bring up that monothism, the belief in only one god, has only been with us for 3,000 years. can you explain that development? and are we also hard wired to keep it simple when it comes to god, just one god? >> it's really fascinating about religions is, you know, we can trace religious expression back hundreds of thousands of years but over those hundreds of thousands of years the belief in one god is barely 3,000 years old. by the way, it's not that belief

in one god didn't arise occasionally, it did, it's just when it did arise, it was immediately rejected and partly it's because while we're comfortable with contradictory attributes and emotions in us, we're not that comfortable with it in god. it doesn't make sense for the ancient mind to think of a god that is both good and bad, responsible for light and darkness. we prefer every, you know, a bunch of different gods each with a singular trait. it took a long time for the human mind to actually be able to reconcile with this idea of a single one god. >> so how would you define faith, faith in god, faith in -- >> you know, that's my favorite question. i'm so glad you said that. because i often say religion and faith are not the same thing. faith is fundamentally an emotion. like love or any other emotion. it's not rational, it's a choice

more than anything else. religion is the language that we use to express our faith. they're not the same thing. >> we all, a lot of us here, have children who are getting questions. i have young children. and they think of god as a bearded man in the sky who has a plan for people and is making decisions and control things down beneath them. and it's interesting in the book you sort of trace your own religious journey through god as that kind of child up through christianity and your muslim faith. how did your view of god change and where is it now? >> you know, what's funny is we're actually, it turns out, the evidence indicates, that we're born with that view. we're born sort of compelled to think of god in these terms, as a kind of person who watches over us who looks down on us, and i think what happens is that as we grow older, most of us continue to hold on to that image. by the way, whether we believe in god or not, when you ask an atheist, his view on what god is, he starts to usually

describe himself. and what i'm saying is we need to ward that off. we need to dehumanize god not just have a more deeper spirituality but in order to sort of release some of the conflicts that we have with these absolutist conceptions of what god is, what god loves, et cetera, which is just what we love and hate. >> how does this continue? >> well, the argument at the end of the book is for a pan threeistic view of god, a conception of god as animating all of creation. you know, what i often say is that god is all and all is god. you can't really differentiate between creator and creation. i think that's a better way of thinking about god. because if i see god in you, if i see god in you, it makes it impossible for me to dehumanize people, to devalue them as -- as creatures of god. >> i wonder if you found across

societies that influence is sort of often the enemy of the concept of god. the more affluent we become as a society, the more arrogant we become as a society. the more self-fulfilled we become as a society. i'm wondering if times like these where there seems to be chaos and consternation, if that might not bring more americans back to the idea of focusing on god, whether your concept of god which is more traditional or your concept with god. >> there are two interesting trends taking place in human religiosity. the first, which we talk about a lot, is the rise of the so-called nons, right, the nonaffiliated. these are people who refuse to accept any kind of religious identity but who also don't call themselves atheists. it's the old, you know, i'm

spiritual but not religious thing. i think part of the reason why that's growing so fast is for a lot of people religion has become corrupted by politics mostly. the other really interesting trend is the way we identify ourselves in religious collectives is starting to change. it used to be that it was just like you and your church. that was your community. the people around you, inside this building. but because of the internet and because of new ways of communicating with other people, now we're seeing new expressions of religiosity pop up on the internet, on the web, you know, people -- you might have more in common with somebody in indonesia than you have in common with somebody in your own church. it's hard to know where this is going but to me it's all really fascinating, what's happening with human spirituality right now. >> and the new book is "god, a human history." ressa aslan, thank you. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. >> hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, a lot to talk

about. starting with more trouble for the gop. alabama republican senate candidate roy moore firing back after a report that he allegedly sexually approached a 14-year-old girl decades ago. his potential d.c. colleagues distancing themselves quickly. >> you got to step aside. >> i don't believe they'll be any place for him in the u.s. senate. >> if it's true, step aside. >> shocking new details from the other investigation looking into whether mike flynn and his son were offered millions of dollars to forcibly remove a muslim cleric from the united states and deliver him to the turkish president. this as top trump aide steven miller gets grilled. and one step closer. senate republicans release their tax plan setting the stage for a major showdown. >> we look forward to getting this to the president and signing this. >> we've got to begin this morning with the stunning sexual allegations against alabama senate candidate roy moore.