have worn the uniform. our friend did not know we were going to do that tonight but i'll deal with him. that is our broadcast for tonight and for the week. thanks for being with us. good night from msnbc news in new york. msnbc takes you behind the walls into prisons into a word of chaos and danger. now the scenes you've never seen. "lockup: raw." prison might be hell, but for some it's especially so. >> i wouldn't last five minutes on the main line. >> why? >> well, because they don't like cops. >> or first time offender. >> they asked me who i run with,

i run with teachers. >> and it cob even worse for the sex offender. >> i was burned with hot water with baby oil and hair grease. that's a permanent scar forever. >> most of the prisons we profile on lockup are maximum security prisons. hard core places with rapists and murders. but sometimes we come into a fish out of water, guy next door, we ask the question how did this guy end up here. this is california state prison corcoran. a maximum security prison that has housed some of the nation's in fa miss criminals, including charles mason and the founder of the mexican mafia. despite its reputation, violence

doesn't come naturally to everyone here. >> i don't see myself as being liked by many of the people here. but what i saw here longer was i here really thin line between them and me. >> before he was an inmate stef fan was a lie brayer and. >> i'm here basically because i'm an alcoholic. and done a lot of drugs, too, drugs are part of my story. >> his drug use resulted in a six-year sentence for crimes including burglary. >> at that time i had been married, not very long, my wife was pregnant. and the fact that i couldn't stop drinking and i couldn't stop using, it was very difficult to deal with the shame and the guilt of all that. >> par o0 and his wife eventual separated but he landed in prison for breaking into her

home for getting drugs. >> i had no defense. i said, yes, i did go in and take the credit cards. and the reason i took the credit cards is wisely enough my wife canceled mine. >> stefan was a very relatable guy to us who were in lock up. well educated man and expressed himself so eloquently. i think he was a cautionary tale because his crimes were committed because of substance abuse, and i think most of us know people who have similar issues, but there was staefan trying to nerve ga trying to navigate through an extremely violent world. >> i wasn't saying i was an exemplarry sit ten by any means, but i had no idea it could get this bad. >> and that's what i -- (whistle blowing). >> in the middle of interviewing

stefan, alarm went off, and the protocol at the prison is all inmates had to get down on their stomachs and all personnel and staff remain standing. >> false alarm. >> it was a little sad actually watching stefan on the ground because we were in the midst of having this great conversation almost, and he started to think of himself i think as a regular guy back out on the street. and suddenly it was very clear, no, he's an inmate, and he has to get down on the ground like all the other inmates, get dirty, until he is told he can get back up. >> go ahead. >> how long did it take you to get used to doing that? >> well, when i was in jamestown i gt a lot of practice, the yard goes down a lot. so glad that happened for you

guys. >> and so i made a little joke with him because i could feel his embarrassment and i wanted to try to lighten it up a little bit. >> did you arrange for that, stefan? >> i can't say that i did. >> okay. all right. that was a lot of fun. okay. where was i? >> he went on to tell us that in order to survive in corcoran, he had to understand it. >> you know, at the beginning when i was facing the 41 months i thought how in the hell am i going to make it? i didn't see myself as being a part of this community. it is a community, no matter how dysfunctional it is or bizarre and ridiculous and stupid. because it is very stupid. there is a lot of rules here that are enforced by inmates. >> many of those inmate enforced rules evolve around racial

politics. >> a lot of people here have affiliation with gangs. they ask me who do i run with, i run with teachers and librarians usually. and when i find them i'll run with them. but i haven't found too many of them yet. >> paro must also deal with racial politics in his prison job as a housing clerk. >> i'm in the program office. i got a message that you had called over here. >> usually i come in the morning and see who has paroled, and any beds open. i have 109 up. 242 open. those are open since yesterday. i kind of look at those and see who we have waiting and place them. it's a bit of a puzzle because we have to house according to their ethnicity, gang affiliation, and medical needs. >> stefan had a job that afforded him a certain amount of information about the various inmates on the yard. so he really had to walk a tight

rope between doing his job, correctly t and a piece tg the various inmate groups on the yard, particularly the white group. >> naturally, your own people have expectations of you that are greater than somebody else on the yard, different races and affiliations. so if you have information, you do go to your people first. the clerks in the past i know have had a lot of run ins, beat up for things they have done, things they have not done, things they have said. my boss asks me all the time, at least three or four times a week, kind of jokingly, but not really, i see you didn't get beat up today. and i say to him, you know, that really isn't that funny. but i said to him the other day you know that upsets me when you say that because it could happen. >> thank you. >> but paro has seen his share of violence at corcoran.

when he arrived he was determined to avoid trouble but told by other inmates that he would eventually be tested. and if he didn't fight back, his time here would be a lot worse. >> so i fought. and that was pretty much the first fight i've ever been in in my life. i couldn't walk very well for about three or four weeks. i had black eyes for about six weeks. i thought it was hell. and it was. >> you eventually just start living. you start doing all these activities. you wash your clothes. you make the ritual of having coffee, just like you did out there, you know. you don't have the option to go to starbucks. you get followgers out of the c. i think one of the interesting things is i woke up to is that's

what life is. here or elsewhere. so you better get something out of it. so if i can actually enjoy making coffee here in corcoran surrounded by a lot of loud people and a lot of other discomfort, then i'm going to come out a lot better for it when i get out there. if i'm going to live through this, and i have a son so i better live through this, i have to do something, no matter how difficult it is, you reach down anyou fin metal that you didn't know you had. that's what prison is all about, really. it's finding strength that you never thought you had. >> coming up -- >> i went up to the bars and splash they hit me with baby oil and hair grease, got on my stomach, and burnt my back too. >> a sex offender learns one personality trait can run into problems. >> i had excessive talking going on and on at times.

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in prison nicknames are there also. when we first meet an inmate, finding out inmate is part of the routine. >> i need your first and last name. >> douglas. >> and what sur nickname? >> what is my nickname? bozo the clown. >> why? >> i don't know. i think because it was alex said i didn't have any hair. >> one day i was having a conversation with him and he told me that he had one time worked at a circus and that was his favorite job which is kind of iconic considering his nickname being bozo and wild laugh. out of no where you would hear him laugh. >> other than his hairline,

douglas bozo whit low had little in common with his name sake and his crime was no laughing matter. when we met him he was in his 13th year of 65 year sentence for rape and criminal confinement. and when we saw his scars, it was evident that his status as a sex offender had made his time in prison anything but a circus. >> i was burned with hot water out of a hot pot with baby oil and hair grease and got on my arm and stomach. it burnt my stomach. it burnt my back, too. and i healed up pretty good. but that's a permanent scar forever. >> wit low claimed to not know who attacked him but offered multiple possibilities for why it happened. >> whit low constantly changed his story about what happened and why he was attacked. at one point he told us it was because he was actually defending a nurse who was the actual intended victim of this

attack. >> someone threatened a gun, nurse [ bleep ], so i didn't want the nurse hurt so i said throw it on me. >> another time he told us it was just an accident that it occurred. and at one time he even admitted that someone purposely tried to hurt him. >> i walked up to the bars because i thought someone said bozo, because that's what the guys call me, and i walked up to the bars and splash they hit me with greece that burnt my arm. and i couldn't see who it was. and i'm not the type that would tattle-tail on somebody anyone. >> he acknowledged what might be his biggest problem in prison. >> most of it biggest percent is how much i talk around the guys. one of the problems and issues i had was talking a lot, excessive talking going on and on at

times. >> not only was he a sex offender, he was a sex offender that constantly talked about his crime and even his current behavior, which was disturbing, he talked about it to anybody who would listen. and this provoked the other inmates, in effect, to attack him. >> what did you feel? i know it's a stupid question. but what do you remember feeling? >> it was very painful. there was a lot of pain. but it was nothing like the pain i went through for a charge why i'm in here for the last 13 years. >> whit low was also insist tenths that he was not a rapist but just an exhibitionist. but at times he seemed unsure himself. >> how many? i don't know. i think three or four misdemeanors of this same thing. so it looked like i was showing a pattern of stalking woman and then raped this woman, but, no i

did not. and i learned my lesson to respect women and don't do that. and now as a christian i couldn't unless we were married. >> and he had recent run ups but to prisons. >> i have to do 50 years for rape charge i didn't do. so of course i was mad about that more than nguyen anybody. anyone out there seeing this. >> he tended to blame other people for his problems. but the fact of the matter was he was exposing himself to nurses and to people. and then he would talk about it. which in a way it's an a front to most inmates. >> the exposures i know for a fact that were forced upon me to be in my cell nude. my clothes were either stolen or getting loss. but the problem started to be fixed and i'm proud of staff it's getting to continue to be correctsed. >> we were trying to do an interview and he would keep

going, and the manner in which he spoke and conducted himself, it was just draining. it was absolutely draining. it was hard to keep him focused. >> you can see i was dressed for you when you came. i don't have any other clothes in here. see, there is no sheets, i got one blanket. i don't have any clothes, but that is not something i'm worried about because the lord, in his words says we don't have to worry about clothes, he'll worry about that for me, and i'll do the best i can. and that's what i do. i wouldn't disrespect you like that. i love you. >> coming up. >> when i was arrested he took me down to my jail, you know, where i worked. >> an ex-cop lands in one of america's toughest prisons. >> i'm old school. and it's very difficult. very, very difficult.

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when we met ar mon, he was recovering from shoulder surgery but that didn't ease the pain of 26 year in law enforcement. >> i was ploeted to lieutenant in 1984. what happened? >> why are you here? >> good question. >> after retiring, tianao and a group of friend started a charitable organization, they raised over $3 million but then questions arose where the money went. >> to make the long story short the judge said everything we raised was fraud, even though we could show we gave away to hospitals, easter basket drives,

no, it's all fraud money. so because it's all fraud, the $3.5 million is all income and by the way you owe several million tax on that. >> after donating only # $0,000 out of the $3.5 million he raised he was sentenced to almost 18 years in prison for fraud and embezzlement. >> it's one of those things that in the beginning it seems surreal, and as you go through it, you start to devise ways to cope, or go crazy, you know. i mean, i've, it's no secret, i'm not ashamed to say, i thought of killing myself in the beginning. i didn't know if i could get through this. when i an arrested they took me down to my jail where i had worked. i have guys that were working for me putting handcuffs on me. and they felt terrible. i mean, i had one guy tell me it's like putting handcuffs on my brother. >> the jury that convicted him believed he used millions of

dollars he raised not to help others but to live a life of luxury purchasing boats and houses. it's a little different than today. >> you have a cement floor, four walls, stainless steel tie locality. two people in here. have you to go rest room in here. and everything is so -- i wasn't brought up that way. i'm from the old school and it's very difficult. very, very difficult. >> not only was he former law enforcement, he still carried himself like a cop. and here he was incarcerated in a pretty hard core prison. and i could see he really lnt come to terms with the fact that he was once a law enforcement agent and now he was an inmate. he still obviously struggled with that fact. he was lucky he was put in a

protective custody unit because otherwise he would be in grave danger. >> i wouldn't probably last five minutes on the main line. >> why? >> well, they don't like cops. you know, or ex-cops. >> he says if nothing else, his experience here have seen who he arrested in a new life. >> i've been dealing with these people for many years. and there are a lot of them that aren't, you know, there is a perception, unfortunately by the majority of our society that everybody is in prison is really a bad person. and that's not the case. my heartaches for some of these young tears you see come in here, 22 years old that are facing life sentences because of a stupid mistake. i mean, you just wonder how is this 22-year-old kid going to get through to age 65, 70, 75,

80, and this is it. there is no more than this. this is all there is for him. i mean, you can't help but have some empathy for that guy. >> how is your shoulder doing? >> it's a little sore. i have it in a sling. it gets too stiff. >> for all these years, for 26 years in law enforcement, i have a very good friend of mine that's retired captain. we write. and i was telling him, you know, it's like that whole point in my life has been for knot because they took my retirement badge, id card. you know, i used to win gold medals at the police olympics and those are gone. it guts you is what it does. it just guts you. and you try and hold that in as best you can. >> my name is richard lui owe in new york city in new york city. we are taking you live to donald

trump fourth stop on five country trip through asia. 12 days. now going to be both the president of vietnam and president trump taking to the microphones to speak. we will listen in to see what their comments are right now. >> ladies and gentlemen, members of the media, president quang and president trump are now hosting a press briefing to announce their talks. may i invite president quang to deliver his remarks. >> your excellency donald trump, president of united states of america, ladies and gentlemen, members of the media, president trump and i have had fruitful talks about the em battled relations and regional and

international relations of mutual interest. we both share the views that the relations delivering benefits to both countries. during president trump's state visit to vietnam, vietnam and the united states issued a joint statement pledging to further deepen the vietnam/united states comprehensive partnership on the basis of mutual respect for each other's independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and political systems. within the visits framework, the two sides reach important agreements on economy and trade. addressing legacy issues, we'll see higher priority, and we are committed to collaborate ab tively on this matter.

vietnam highly values the united states's decision to cooperate with vietnam on clean up at the air base after the two countries successfully concluded the clean up project at dano airport. the president and i discussed regional and international issues of mutual interest. we agreed to strengthen our close coordination at regional and international forums to contribute to the peace and stability in the region and the world at large. we also agreed on the importance of the united states strategic partnership. we believe that the development of the vietnam/u.s. relations would not only benefit each

country, but also contribute to strengthening u.s. relations. for stability and collaboration in the u.s., pacific, and the world. the president visit to vietnam marks a milestone in vietnam/u.s. relations creating strong momentum for the effective and stable development of the bilateral comprehensive partnership. i wish president trump and members of the u.s. delegation a successful visit. and i hope that you will have good impressions of our country and our people. i sincerely thank mr. president personally and the american people for the warm friendship towards our country and people. and i appreciate the great efforts to develop vietnam/u.s.

by lateran relations. i'd also like to think american and vietnamese reporters who are here today. thank you very much. thank you. may i now invite mr. donald trump president of the united states to deliver his remarks. >> thank you very much president quang. and thank you for your tremendous hospitality during my first visit to vietnam. it is a pleasure to be with you right here in hanoi. on behalf of the entire american delegation, i want to thank the vietnamese people for their warm welcome. and to re-affirm the strong friendship and growing partnership between our two nations. travelers from all around the world, including many americans, come to vietnam each year to admire your magnificent limestone mountains, cycle

through your many winding hillsides, or women in the majestic halong bay. your nation's magnificence brings people in the great beauty and splendor of your wonderful country. over the last two decades we have come together to find common purpose and common interest. and that's at is ppening. it is those crucial bonds we are lear to do today. in may they transferred u.s. cutter morgan thal to the people and country of vietnam. named for u.s. treasury secretary henry morgan thal junior, this vessel once paroled the coast of vietnam during the vietnam war. today the same vessel a gift between partners is sailing the

waters of the pacific on its way to patrol these coasts for the people of vietnam. this month we mark veterans day in the united states. and out of war and conflict, we have achieved a deep friendship, partnership, and we have achieved peace. bound by common experience our veterans laid the foundation between our nations. our decades humanitarian efforts with the vietnamese people and government to account for and recover personnel still missing, so important to us, from the war, these horrors of this horrendous war, we want our service members support, and we give total support to the families, and we strengthen the foundation of our comprehensive partnership. that is so important to us. in the spirit of our friendship,

i want to congratulate president quang for hosting a very successful apec leaders meeting this week in da nang. congratulations. you did a fantastic job. thank you. as i stated in my address to the apec ceo summit on friday, the united states is committed to a free and open indo-pacific where strong independent nations respect each other sovereignty, uphold the rule of law, and advance responsible commerce. we want our partners in the indo-pacific to be proud and self reliant. not proxies or satellites. we look forward to achieving a bilateral trade agreement with partners who abide by the principles of fair and reciprocal trade. two very important words. fair and reciprocal. it hasn't been that way for the united states almost at all.

and we are changing that and we are changing it rapidly. for trade to work, all countries must play by the rules. i am encouraged that vietnam has recently become the fastest growing export to the united states. mr. president, i applaud your efforts to implement economic reforms and increase vietnam's trade and investment in all directions. the united states is enthusiastic about reforms that promote economic prosperity for all vietnamese citizens, as we look to your growing middle class as a key market for american goods and services. we just had a great discussion about american goods and services coming in to vietnam. two-way street. i am confident that american energy, agricultural, financial services, aviation, digital commerce, and defense products are able to meet all of your

many commercial needs. and in fact not only meet them, but what we do is better than anybody else. moving forward, i welcome vietnam's commitment to eliminating trade barriers for u.s. agricultural products. it's very important. we must ensure that american farmers in all american companies especially those in digital services and ecommerce can compete on a level playing field and we look forward to working with you to combat predatory and unfair trade practices in the region. on security issues we continue to work with our vietnamese partners and with partners across the region on a range of challenges including counter terrorism, human and drug trafficking, cyber crime and disease prevention. later today i'll travel to the philippines where ile discuss many of these issues at the u.s.

acn summit and east asia sum mitt. the summit is going to be something i think very, very special. i'll look forward to attending. we will also discuss the growing threat from north korea. as i said in my speech to the republish of national assembly, all responsible nations must act now to ensure that north korea's rogue regime stops threatening the world with unthinkable loss of life. safety and security are goals that should unite all civilized nations. we want progress. not provocation. we have been provoked. the world has been provoked. we don't want that. we want stability, not chaos. and we want peace, not war. mr. president, thank you for being such a gracious host during my time right here in vietnam.

i toured areas of vietnam, and it is magnificent what's happening. over the past two decades our nations have continued to grow closer in advancing our shared interests. the history of our two nations reveals the possibilities for peace and progress in our world. moving forward as partners, we will achieve great prosperity and success for the american people and for the vietnamese people. i thank you very much. thank you. >> translator: thank you very much, mr. president donald trump. now the floor is open to your questions. president quang, from vietnam news agency, can you elaborate on the progress in the vietnam/u.s. relations over the

past years? >> translator: well, the reporters, over the past year the u.s. vietnam relations have made very strong progress in all areas, diplomacy, economy, trade, science and technology, health, humanitarian areas and people to people exchange. and in particular high level contacts meetings and exchange of delegations on the basis of the comprehensive partnership have produced meaningful results. and among them, the visit to the united states in may this year, and the state visit to vietnam honorable president donald trump, and the very first year of his term of office are the

highlights. meetings between leaders of vietnam and the president during his visit are very useful. and the meetings give us the opportunity to understand each other better and to work together on areas of mutual interest. the substantive and effect five growth of the comprehensive partnership between the two countries have been, and will be, delivering benefits to our people and contributing to the maintenance of peace, stability, and pros expert in the worperit. thank you. >> from vtv i have another question for president chuaquan.

can you provide your assessment and outlook for the u.s. vietnam? >> thank you for your question. during the talks with the president we acknowledged there is still much room for further expansion of the relations. and we discussed ways and means to further strengthen the corporation in a more substantive manner in the time to come. and the two sides also pledged to increase contacts and dialogues, especially the high level meetings through bilateral visits and meetings. at the sidelines that the regional and international forums. the two sides will also promote the momentum for development of the economic trade and relations on the basis of mutual interest, minimize the trade disputes, and will continue to effectively

implement the economic and trade graem grae agreements that we have signed. we will also strengthen science and environment, climate change, and expanding people to people exchange. for the enhanced, comprehensive partnership, the interests of the two people's and for the benefit of peace, stability, cooperation, and development in the region and the world. thank you. >> well, thank you. >> john roberts of fox, please. >> thank you, mr. president. and if i can throw a little bit of a change-up here i'll ask both leaders a question as

opposed to one. >> okay. >> mr. president to you first if we can from hanoi to da nang, you talked about your discussions with vladimir putin and received further from him he did not meddle in the election. >> that is true. >> in your statement when you said when he tells me that, i believe that he means it. that was taken in some circles, including senator john mccain to think that you believe he is saying he did not interfere in the election. could you once and for all definitively, sir, yes or no, say whether or not you believe that president putin and or russia interfered in the election? >> what i said today i'm surprise there is any conflict on this. what i said there is i believe he believes that and that's very important for somebody to belief. i believe that he feels that he and russia did not meddle in the election. as to whether or not i believe it or not, i'm with our agencies especially as currently constituted with leadership, i

bloo eve in our intel agencies, our intelligence agencies. i've worked with them very strongly. there weren't 17 as was previously reported. there were actually 4. but tle were saying there were 17. there was actually four. but as currently led by fine people, i believe very much in our intelligence agencies. now, at the same time, i want to be able, because i think it's very important, to get along with russia, to get along with china, to get along with vietnam, to get along with lots of countries, because we have a lot of things we have to solve. and frankly russia and china in particular can help us with the north korea problem which is one of our truly great problems. so i'm not looking to stand and start arguing with somebody when there are reporters all around and cameras recording and seeing our conversation. i think it was very obvious to everybody. i believe that president putin

really feels, and he feels strongly that he did not meddle in our election. what he believes is what he believes. what i believe is that we have to get to work. and i think everybody understood this that heard the answer. we have to get to work to solve syria, to solve north korea. to solve ukraine. to solve terrorism. and, you know, people don't realize, russia has been very, very heavily sanctioned. they were sanctioned at a very high level. and that took place very recently. it's now time to get back to healing a world that is shattered and broken. those are very important things. and i feel that having russia in a friendly posture as opposed to always fighting with them is an asset to the world and an asset to our country not a liability. and by the way hillary clinton had the reset button. she wanted to get back together with russia. she even spelled reset wrong.

that's how it started. then it got worse. president obama wanted to get along with russia but the chemistry wasn't there. getting along with other nations is a good thing. not a bad thing. believe me, it's a good thing, not a bad thing. >> okay. president quang if i can ask a question of you. there are some people who believe vietnam can make an effective facilitator in bringing the united states and north korea together to at least lay the ground work potentially for negotiations. what do you believe vietnam could bring to the table in that regard? >> translator: on north korea issue, vietnam is committed to seriously observing all the relevant resolution of the unsc,

and we support the denuclear ages of the korean peninsula and do our utmost and do whatever we can to contribute to the denuclearization of the korean peninsula. thank you. >> translator: well, thank you president quang. you tweeted this morning about trying to be friends with kim jong-un. is that a possibility? and for president quang can you comment on the president's offer to do the dispute? >> steve, i think anything is a possibility. strange things happen in life. that might be a strange thing to happen, but it's certainly a

possibility. if that did happen, it would a good thing for, i can tell you for north korea, but also be good for lots of other places and good for the world. so certainly it is something that could happen. i don't know that it will, but it would be very, very nice if it did. >> translator: with regard to the south china sea issue, i have shared my thoughts with president donald trump on the recent developments in this area. and it is our policy to settle disputes in the south china sea through peaceful negotiations. and with respect for diplomatic and legal process in accordance

with international law, including the 1982 u.n. convention on the law of the sea. thank you very much. thank you president quang and president donald trump we have come to the end of the press briefing today. thank you all very much for your participation. >> okay. president trump there as well as the president of vietnam, president quang, just doing what's called two and two. kelly o'donnell white house responsibility is there traveling with the president of the united states. and we did have a couple of news there kelly and there of course is the reflex that president trump had on his comments about his meeting with vladimir putin. that stood out, did it not? >> reporter: there has been such a lingering question about trying to get to the heart of what president trump himself believes about the culpability

of vladimir putin personally and more broadly the russian government in interference during the 2016 campaign from cyber hacking, to the social media accounts that have been tied to return sources. tan what president trump continues to try to do is separate sort of his desire to turn the page and say that he won't weigh in specifically on whether or not putin in his mind is responsible. but to say that putin believes he is not responsible. at the same time, some more nuances where president trump stood up for the intelligence agencies of his administration, after he had called the previous administration's leaders of the cia, fbi and director of national intelligence political hacks assigning political motives to their assessments about russia's involvement. so there is a lot to unpack there. and yet there is still not clarity. president trump also making a point which can be seen especially while he's out of the country for the use of some sort

of olive branch toward russia in order to get russia's help on syria and north korea. president trump keeps leaning heavily on the fact that he does not want to antagonize vladimir putin at a time when he's trying to get his cooperation. he also referenced sanctions saying that effectively russia has been punished. so we got some new in sight from the president but we really didn't resolve the underlying question of who was responsible, according to the president's own thinking. >> white house correspondent there in vietnam. thank you so much kelly o'donnell. thank you for being with us on press coverage. we return to regular tv programming after this. then we could get a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey, welcome back. this guy... right? yes. ellen. that's my robe. you could save seven hundred eighty two dollars when liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.

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. the majority of the maximum security inmates we meet might describe prison as hell. but at indiana state prison we encountered a pair of old-timers who figured out how to make the best of it. >> what are you doing there? >> sitting here on prime time

living on air of prayer, that's all i'm doing. >> steve robins was serving 90 years for murder but he had a sense of an eye when it came to color. >> this is cyrilian blue, very beautiful color. you see i had to use it sparingly. the sky, all right, creativity i got, no problems. this is all paint. this is not acrylics. you know, you have to let this dry, that's at least how i do it, i don't try to put too much on the paint because i want to control it. >> darrel mayhem serving several years for fraud had a different hobby. >> i'm making a bird house right now. i also do chess sets.

when i was in florida i worked in a hobby craft shop and we had ban sau bandsaws that we could cut regular wood with. here we don't. we have pop cal sticks and i buy them and cut the ends up, good old elmers glue, and this is my saw which happens to be the bottle of a pringles can. it's not sharp. it won't cut a person but it will cut the sticks. that's the only tool i use to make these. you can see why if takes eight to nine months to make one. >> why do you do this darrel? >> just to pastime, basically. >> there is a farm house right here. give you a rough draft.

okay. a little dimensions to it so i know where i'm at. art is my sanity and salvation. that's what keeps me stable. >> i come up with all kind of ideas. you have two of these like a little protection vent that's keeping rain out of the chimney. i found this out in the yard but it reminded me of air conditioner, that trips everyone out, they like my little grill, so he can grill his worms, i guess. >> can you get the exclusive of looking inside with the fireplace and light switch and plug in outlets are. and this won't be seen once this is completed. i put those in because right now people see it in progress. i figure i can give them something to look at. >> what i'm doing now is putting grass in here.

i'm using yellow ochre and crescent green is a soft green color. separate this here. give it just a little distance. it doesn't take that long, other than that much time to get it going. but once you get in there, it's like the rest of these paintings, get the first stage of painting in, then you let it dry, then you repeat the process. and that's what it's about. >> well, the bird house the top part is about done. everybody kept saying where is the bird going to get in? so i decided i would go ahead and stop all the questions and add the international sym billion for a bird house. >> starving artists for real. yeah, believe me. no one is knocking my door down for work. average person here can't afford my services. i do the two things. i got a letter for two parts

more. but i sent a painting to her, rather, and i got to respond, but i'm looking for help, as always, but you never know how things may turn around. >> fortunately we have a exhibit coming up inane, hopefully we'll get the exposure we need. highlight this grill. that's what i'm trying to get is public support. there you go. now, a robin original. for msnbc. is there a check with this here? >> it's a masterpiece.

/. msnbc takes you behind the world of prisons into a world of chaos and danger now the scenes you've never seen. lockup: raw. in a life full of restrictions, we have seen inmates take control of whatever they can. despite the consequences. >> he wants this and he wants it now. well, he's not going to get it now. come on