ask your health care provider if you're tresiba® ready. covered by most insurance and medicare plans. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ that's it for me this hour on msnbc live. i'll be back next weekend. now stay tuned for "a.m. joy" because it starts right now. >> i think what i said from day one is a joke. we had a tough time colluding between the trump campaign and pennsylvania and the rnc. all this stuff is a ground game. we have some marginal guys and there were definitely marginal guys during the campaign. it was a land of misfit toys.

>> duterte is a man that trump seems to admire. first here at home, new additions in the russian probe seem to put out from allies that people in the trump campaign were nothing but coffee boys. we now know george papadopoulos, who trump calls a low-level volunteer, edited a policy speech that trump gave in april of 2016, according to the "new york times." papadopoulos was also in regular contact with campaign aide steven miller when he was told that the russians had dirt on hillary clinton in the form of e-mails. papadopoulos pleaded guilty for lying to the fbi and faces prison time. another figure, carter page, repeatedly told campaign staffers about his meetings with high-ranking russian officials. as the investigations creep

closer to trump's inner circle, miller, now a white house senior policy adviser, has reportedly spoken to the special counsel's office. and when trump was in russia for the beauty pageant, supposedly a trump body guard offered trump five women, which he turned down. the russian aides are getting closer to donald trump, but it appears they were made up entirely of coffee boys. my panel is here. marcia guessen, author of "the future is history."

the white house team's defense has been that each of these people in return, including paul manafort who was campaign chairman, were simply marginal to the campaign. were they coordinating this from inside the white house? do you have any idea how they came up with this idea because it seems ridiculous on the surface. >> when it comes to paul manafort calling him a figure is absolutely ridiculous. he had the campaign for quite some time and before that he was key player in the campaign. with someone like george papadopoulos, their case is a little bit easier, because technically they were correct. he was a minor figure while some people in the campaign were a joke. having said that, the degree in which the trump campaign was run in a bush league fashion, it made it possible for people like papadopoulos to worm their way into coordinating with people in the top brass of the campaign.

>> but when people have worked on campaigns, i've worked on a couple campaigns, the foreign policy advisory committee doesn't necessarily sit down with the candidate. this is a committee that's putting down the policy papers, their work ends up in the speeches. they don't have to be in day-to-day contact. in the case of papadopoulos, the e-mails he sent to steven miller who i don't think they would argue is a trump figure. mr. papadopoulos e-mailed mr. miller, then a senior policy adviser to the campaign, saying mr. trump had an open invitation from mr. putin to visit russia. he had some interesting invitations coming from moscow about a trip when the time is right. you're right, it would be hard for an aka coffee boy to offer that access. >> exacti inly as you mentionede

junior staff had very high level of access. we saw that translate into the higher office as well where john kelly arriving as chief of staff, pretty much anybody was able to walk into the oval office and get a white house meeting and make themselves heard by donald trump. this is something that the kgb looked for these specific people in order to get access to the white house. now we're going to see how far this goes. i think the broader concept of the asian trip in which donald trump sat down with putin and had the one on one meetings and he said, oh, i know we have to understand because of the mueller investigation why it is donald trump is never going to insult putin. he's probably the only person he will never insult in this world and why it is that he's so ready to believe anything that putin and russia say. that's at the core of the american public wanting to understand what the collusion is.

because this is an unprecedented friendliness and being cozy with not just russia but an actual adversary. >> you've called it up, so let me go ahead and play what you're talking about. donald trump, while he's on this trip to asia, he was asked about russian interference in the election. here he is trying to square the discrepancy between whether or not the american intelligence agencies who work for trump are right or whether putin is right when he denies that he interfered in our election. here's donald trump. >> as to whether i believe it or not, i'm with our agencies, especially as currently st constituted with our leadership. i believe in our intel agencies, our intelligence agencies. i've worked with them very strongly. there weren't 17 as previously reported. there were actually four. they were saying there was 17, there was actually four. but as currently led by fine

people, i believe, very much in our intelligence agencies. >> the little numbers discrepancy he's trying to do there is there's the cia, the nsa, there's a director of national intelligence and under the director of national intelligence, there are other agencies. sees trying to reduce the number of agencies in the federal government that all agree that vladimir putin's kremlin was involved in our election. but here's what he believes vladimir putin said. >> what i said there is i believe he believes that, and that's very important for someone to believe. i believe he believes that he and russia did not meddle in the election. >> marcia, i feel like something all of these people have in common, whether it's carter page, george papadopoulos and donald trump is this faith in vladimir putin. all of them believe they can sit down with vladimir putin, get

him to sit in a room with donald trump, that all he says is authentic and someone they're very clearly eager to work with. is that sort of what putin's upper hand here was, that he had so many people eager to be friendly with him? >> i think you're right to say the word "eager." i don't think this has anything to do with authenticity. i don't think anybody, including donald trump, is actually thinking putin is telling the truth, right? we're not talking about collusion here. he supposedly asked putin about meddling in the election. meddling in the election is not in question, right? the intelligence agencies agreed he meddled in the election. reporters have shown that russia meddled in the election. this has been shown without a shadow of a doubt unlike collusion, which i don't know whether that can be proved or not. so when trump says that putin didn't meddle and he believes

putin, he's really talking about power, right? he thinks that putin has the power to claim that he didn't meddle in the election even though it is obviously not true. just as trump lies to show power, so he sees putin lying to show power, and he sort of acknowledges that power, and he gives him more power than he's giving to american intelligence agencies. >> also, if there is a quid pro quo that one can surmise from what we know so far in the russia investigation, it does feel like on the russian side of that alleged potential transaction, sanctions were at the core of it. this is donald trump talking about sanctions. it feels like all of these meetings somehow got back to this idea of undoing the sanctions against russia. this is donald trump, president of the united states, talking about those sanctions. here he is. >> and, you know, people don't realize, russia has been very, very heavily sanctioned. they were sanctioned at a very

high level. and that took place very recently. it's now time to get back to healing a world that is shattered and broken. >> and you're reporting more of these whether they want to call them low-level people or not, it feels like the offer that maybe they were attempting to put on the table was the openness on changing or getting rid of these sanctions. >> what's interesting is trump's first meeting with vladimir putin, his second meeting he had at the g-20 during that dinner, he said later on that putin actually mentioned the sanctions. he said they talked about adoptions and it was very interesting. then we found out they had this meeting at trump tower where they talked about adoptions, which is another code word for the campaign. it seems they were offering dirt on hillary clinton as some kind of promise or commitment that the white house would then look

into removing the sanctions because that's the number one goal of vladimir putin. he hates the sanctions, he's been trying to undo them since 2012, and he did ban americans from adopting russian children in retaliation for those sanctions. that's a huge priority for him and it makes total sense of why this would be on the top of his list to reach out to the campaign and find out what their reaction would be. >> you're calling him low level, but he's there trying to broker a meeting with vladimir putin. we're learning that the reason he was willing to lie to the fbi and go to prison was his loyalty to donald trump. it does feel like that's what we're pushing toward, right, a quid pro quo. we'll overlook sanctions again and we'll take whatever help you can give us on hillary clinton. >> right, and there's certainly a lot of sketchy and rough putin individuals in the trump world in the last two years or so. but when it comes to the president of the united states

himself, there seems to be a ritual of people setting their hair on fire when he comes out and publicly says essentially he believes vladimir putin and not the american intelligence agencies. i got to tell you, it would actually be news if he came out and said the opposite, he believed an american intelligence apparatus and not vladimir putin and the kremlin. this has been his tune for over a year now, and it's a point of pride, almost, for him. it's not intellectually discerning what is actually going on in this particular case, it's the president not willing to back down on anything. on this point he just happens to deal with the kremlin. >> and the kremlin in turkey and other autocontractratic regimes. he agrees with him that he should be our friend, you have michael flynn and his son perhaps even organizing a kidnapping in order to help out. the turkish government now being

investigated for that. so this idea they are low-level nobodies, no, these are people who cultivated a similar mindset and a similar way of viewing donald trump. >> you sign up for a campaign because you believe what the candidate says and what they stand for. donald trump is pretty basic, actually. it's a very basic, straightforward assessment of who he is. he likes strong menme. he wants to be around people who can project power. he does not have the the depth that we've seen in previous administrations of understanding intellectually what rule of law means, how the constitution works. he's made several statements about regret that the d.o.j. can't get involved in the way he would like them to in various operations, and that is interesting that he is ending his asia trip with duterte, who is somebody who has disregarded rule of law and had his police kill thousands of his own citizens without any trial. this is the type of energy and

power and idea that trump is going to come back to the united states with. >> absolutely. thank you, two. tasha and masha will be back. and their names rhyme. trump has a conflict of interest. but of course! more on that after the break. we've got auto insurance, homeowners insurance. had an accident with a vehicle, i actually called usaa before we called the police. usaa was there hands-on very quick very prompt. i feel like we're being handled as people that actually have a genuine need. we're the webber family and we are usaa members for life. usaa, get your insurance quote today.

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duterte routinely kisses his female supporters, once calling the pope a son of a [ bleep ], all of which has earned him the reputation of trump of the east. currently this man is leading in the polls by 11 points, so he's probably going to get elected president tomorrow. which isn't just terrifying for the philippines, because it means that in just a year's time, we could be treated to this as an official state visit.

>> today donald trump landed in manila where he met another of his strongman idols, philipine president robert duterte. he praised duterte's fight on drugs. it is unclear whether trump will bring up any human rights questions with duterte, but it also brings up questions about the trump tower he loves to brag about in manila. kurt, i'll start with you. usa today wrote this about donald trump back in may. president trump makes more money when he embraces regimes that violate human rights. from the philippines to china to turkey to saudi arabia, the president's admiration of authoritarian rulers is bad for the oppressed but good for his

wallet. what they're talking about is the manila deal which is supposed to open this year. it gives duterte leverage over trump. he also stands to profit more from the extrajudicial killings he uses as the power to endorse him. in other words, wiping people out in parts of the philippines allows duterte to say, we're a safe place to do business. your thoughts. >> the arrangement in the philippines is the greatest overlooked scandal of many of the trump administration. you have a situation right now that is an absolute violation of the constitution. you know, we have the special envoy to washington from the philippines is a man named jose antonio. the business partner of donald trump at trump towers century city, which is the philippines property, is jose antonio. the same man who was representing the philippines to

the american government is writing checks every year. he's already paid $2 million to the trump family. when this place opens, he's going to be writing 25% of the revenue of this building is going to be going into the pockets of the trump family. during the campaign, don jr. and eric went out there. they were hanging out with jose antonio. you had ivanka who was selling her jewelry and is going to be selling her jewelry in this building. you have a situation here -- you know, this is straight out of what hamilton wrote in federalist 68 about the dangers of foreign influence in the american government. you have a direct violation of the emollients clause. you have the president getting millions from a foreign government and the republican party doesn't care. they have become a lawless organization.

they're two steps from being a racketeering enterprise. so when you have a situation where duterte, who has compared himself to hitler, who in his december 2nd phone call with donald trump, you know, donald trump supposedly told him you're handling the drug dealing -- your drug problems the right way, killing people, i mean, donald trump, if he says president duterte, we stand against what you're doing, we're standing against your mass murder, then what's going to happen? duterte will say, well, my representative to washington is no longer going to pay you millions of dollars. it's the greatest outrage i have ever seen in government. >> and that is because donald trump doesn't own the trump towers in manila. it's a licensing deal with his name on it. he just gets paid to call them trump towers. at the same time, as kurt just mentioned, you have duterte

using death squads to kill people, apparently planting drugs on them and claiming self-defense. sometimes he's done the killing himself just to show people it should be done. and yet john kelly, general john kelly who is the white house chief of staff, had a conversation with reporters in which he was asked whether the trump administration would stand up against duterte human abuses. he said, i don't know if i'm going to do that. >> we're almost making it sound like trump is beholden to the philippines because it's a profit-making relationship for him. trump was just last week talking about the american law enforcement system being the laughingstock of the world, and i think what he means is that he would like the american law enforcement system to work more like the system in the

philippines, which couldn't be called a law enforcement system because it has nothing to do with law. it has to do with delegating violence to law enforcement agents and encouraging it. something they do in a coded way but duterte does it openly. to trump, the philippines is perfection. it's a perfect way of making money and a perfect way of asserting power. >> all the haters and rofools realize having a relationship with russia, blah, blah, blah. overall he's not just trying to get americans to be more comfortable with the idea of being friendly with auto krakt

regi -- autocratic regimes? >> i think if donald trump had his druthers, we would be in a situation where he had direct command of justice institutions, that he ran an autocratic regime. i have known donald trump since 1987, and everything in this man's character is driven by the self and the ego. i want command, i want competence, i want money. if you are not my ally, then you are my enemy. if he can't have things his way, then he's upset. so he is greatly drawn to -- he is greatly going to be supportive of duterte because duterte has said nice things about him, and he runs a government the way donald trump wants to. when he talks about russia and putin, russia is waging a cyberwar against western

democracies. every other democracy, all of our allies, are talking about it. many of them have been subjected to the same things that we were. and trump is saying, oh, let's have a good relationship. you don't try to have a good relationship with a country that is engaged in a war against you. and that is something that is fundamentally just incomprehensible here, is that -- and mosha made a great point. there is a huge difference between collusion and what russia is doing. collusion is now a different topic. but whether or not russia is undermining global democracy is without question. >> yeah. i think we're out of time. i wanted to ask mo shrks orkmo can be very brief, those who notice this switch in democracy, what can be done about it? >> pay attention to judicial appointments.

what kurt was just talking about is trump's very clear desire to control the judiciary, to make it a part of the executive branch. his judicial appointments, which are speeding through the senate, are an. >> pay attention, i think, is the mosh word for the day. thank you both. really reesht it. meanwhile, here's how donald trump responded to apparently being insulted by the person he called little rocket man. he tweeted, why would kim jong-un insult me by calling me old when i would never call him short and fat. oh, well, i try so hard to be his friend and maybe someday that will happen. we'll follow the money, coming up.

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. if we shot something out of the sky the other day in saudi arabia, as you saw, and that was a very rapidly moving missile shot out of the sky. that was a needle in the sky and it was hit immediately and exploded without damage. >> this week in asia, donald trump repeatedly praised saudi arabia's use of an american-made missile defense system to destroy a rocket apparently

launched from yemen. trump is never short of praise for the u.s. ally in the gulf and what saudi arabia's crown prince calls a crackdown on corruption and what his critics call an attempt to consolidate power by arresting his rivals. for that, trump tweeted, i have great confidence in king salman and the crown prince of saudi arabia. they know exactly what they are doing. some of those they are harshly treating have been milking their country for years. i'm going to start with you, amon, on this, it struck a lot of people as sort of odd timing. was the timing coincidental to the fact you did have the very good friends of that regime, jared kushner, apparently spending quite a bit of time with the crown prince of saudi arabia and had just been there about ten days before? are those two things

coincidental or not? >> i think it's safe to say it caught everyone by surprise, and certainly a lot of people i've spoken to in the gulf did not see it coming. but what they have seen is this consistent pattern by the crown prince of saudi arabia moving more and more in this direction. he had been moved from deputy crown prince to crown prince. he had been in charge of more issues involving the kingdom including security, the war, the defense in yemen. so if people were predicting some kind of consolidation of power might happen, how it was fwg to look like still up in the air but we got an answer in the past couple weeks. >> interestingly, to your point, blair, they were probably given some kinds of heads up. no, or maybe they didn't know who exactly the individuals they were going after, the crown prince was going after, who they were going to be. but it's hard to imagine that

with the close relationship the saudis have established with the trump administration, with jared kushner especially, the fact he's been there three times alone. the united states probably gave a wink and a nod for this consolidation of power and it's certainly something the young crown prince would need from the united states if he is, at some point, to move into the line of being the king of that country which there is a lot of speculation that something could happen. >> and i think that is the key. this is a very close ally to the united states, that oral relationship sort of making itself a public offering. donald trump said publicly he would like that to be on the new york stock exchange. trump took an unannounced trip to saudi arabia on october 25th to the 28th accompanied by security adviser dina powell and jason greenblatt. in your article in the "washington post" you wrote, it was probably no accident that last month, jared kushner made a

personal visit to riyadh. the two princes are said to have stayed up until nearly 4 a.m. several nights, swapping stories and planning strategy. do you think this is proper from the united states? >> i think it's appalling that jared kushner, who has a related relationship with the president, goes to saudi arabia. it doesn't say dina powell was there through the night talking to him. very disturbing he would get the go-ahead. there are a few different models they can choose. right now they'll choose the chinese model. they're getting a signal from the united states, that's okay with us. that's a big mistake for us, it's a big mistake for the region. >> i will say nbc news was give ayn statement regarding the

kushner visit that officials told the two men to discuss and broker an agreement between the israelis and the palestinians, and discussed kushing iranian and hezbollah aggression against israel. the saudi regime is sort of acting in ways that are more putinlike. you've written quite a bit -- you are very conversant with the region. would you describe that as sort of an accurate assessment of what's happening inside saudi arabia? >> i would say yes, and it's a balkanization of the middle east. this crown prince has been moving in a very aggressive way for, i would say, the last year or so. look at his track record. basically we have a war in yemen that is becoming a human catastrophe with people who are dying of color for the first time. he imposes a blockade on them. then he is proposing a blockade

on his neighbors. he basically lost the war in syria. iran won that war. he lost influence in iraq, and now he's trying to use the lebanese, the prime minister who is detain ing in his own countr, forcing him to resign and making a conflict in lebanon. who is that embodiment of basically american nepotism. we don't know if he talked about the peace process. he doesn't care about the peace process. not only that, whatever meeting he had with the palestinians, they came out saying, he's repeating the same talking

points. what we're seeing, and this is a disturbing pattern, we're seeing an on-lined pencil man, desired among the emirates and the israelis. the lebanese are actually preparing for some kind of aggression. we know the leader of hezbollah gave a talk on television. he said they're ready for any sort of eventuality. he said the special 4forces are back in lebanon. the prime minister took him back. he's almost begging him, come back. we know the saudis who forced him to arrest is not the do i understand of language that

bolynese politicians would not use. if you're speaking with a texas accent, it does not work. so we're seeing the bullying of this young prince trying to assert. there's no way he can make economic c economical reform and political reform. we don't need another country that is basically another failed straight, and this is what we're seeing. >> amon, we've been talking today. in the trump administration, there seems to be several places in the world, we just talked about the philippines, where there seems to be from the optics of it, this conflict between the united states, being promoted in theory, and the financial interests of the trump administration seemed to dovetail. in the philippines, he's got a different list whchlt it comes

right-hand man. he met in south korea to pitch the grand reimagining of the tower. kusher also made deals in cutter. cutter wound up finding itself on the wrong side of the united states and riyadh, so the question is whether or not those interests dovetail. we did attempt to get some answers from the white house just about the kush near visit. s we asked, what was donald trump doing in saudi arabia? was 666 fifth avenue discussed with any saudi official during the visit?

has jared received any assistance or financing in the sale of the building? does he have any contacts with regard to the sale of the building? we've not been able to get answers to these questions from the white house. do you have a feeling any of these issues were discussed? >> it's unfair to answer. people are a cutely aware of how that would play out. they could get with an american like jared kushner. if down the line he was going to use them to bail out personal life. there are so many red flags with the way this trump administration is carrying out businesses. and because there are so many

business ties at gulf states, including the island emirates where trump has golf resorts. there is a ranking listing to new york. it doesn't have to be as clear as him sitting across the table saying, do this for us, we'll do this for you. but the fact is the saudis speak trump's language and down the road is where we'll have to watch very carefully to see if there is a quid pro quo of sorts either for the trump family, the kushner family, or in the long run, for the u.s. >> you wrote that donald trump is america's sylvilvio berlusco. is that somebody that they would, then, just in terms of the history and the way saudi

arabia deals with foreign leaders, they could -- this is a sort of operation that they thrive on. >> what's the. however, trump is going ahead with that. so my prediction, exactly like i predicted trump's victory in 2015, let's go to this. all these tweets are a mass distraction because the issue is corruption. he even bragged after the election that said, wow, someone from the emirate went with him and said, i bridge you for $200.

what we know? we cannot return anything because you weren't here. we don't know anything, but this is what we need to focus on as americans. >> jennifer rubien will be back in the next hour. thank you very much. appreciate it. coming up in the next hour, the conservative media ties itself in knots trying to defend roy moore. donna brazil will be here to discuss her explosive new book on the 2018 election. my experience with usaa has been excellent.

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well, tuesday was a very good night for democrats. joining me now to discuss the future of virginia is virginia's lieutenant governor-elect, justin fairfax.

>> god bless you. thank you for having us on. >> congratulations. the victory was pretty sweeping. >> it was. >> i was asking you during the break. there were some outstanding assembly seats. where does that stand? >> there are three races outstanding. we have some great democratic candidates who showed up. one is only 12 votes separating the two candidates. >> right. >> we will know ability more later. it was an incredible night. >> as of now you are ahead 49-48. >> that's correct. >> your victory was not without controversy. >> no. >> a lot of black people were tweeting, we need to know what's happening in fairfax. >> right. >> but there was also some controversy ahead of time. you were left off of some of the flyers that ralph northam put out. >> right. >> doug wilder went so far as to endorse northam and to complain that they were trying to hide you, the only black candidate for statewide office under a bushel. what did you think of that? >> first as regards governor doug wilder, he is a political

hero and i was honored to have his support in this election. of course, it was historic for many reasons. this is only the second time an african-american has been elected to statewide office in the history of virginia. i follow in incredible footsteps. i think every time there was an issue and we were -- whether us being left off or someone attacking us, i think we rose above it. and i think that's why we got, you know, 1.36 million votes. >> yeah. >> in that election, the most ever for lieutenant governor. i think we're entering a new era of politics. new era of hope. people are tired of politics and the attack. people had a choice on tuesday. it was trying to take us down a dark political road. people chose hope over fear. they voted their aspirations and not anxieties. i think that's why we ended up sweeping all three statewide races and making some history. incredible diversity now in our general assembly.

>> yeah. there were some pretty historical races. african-american women 91%. i'm sure that didn't hurt you. >> absolutely. >> do you think what happened in charlottesville wound up influencing the election? i mean, gillespie ran on a neoconfederate platform? >> right. right. >> do you think that was the difference? charlottesville made the difference? >> i think it brought the choices of this election into very specific relief. it showed people that they could choose either darkness over light and what they chose was the bright light of hope. charlottesville really was an opportunity for people to see what the choices were that were at stake on tuesday. the whole ticket campaigned on that same kind of platform. i'm so excited that virginians are leading the way. as i said on election night, virginia is the match that sparks the wildfire of progressive change all across the country, and that's because people really are in a place where they want to choose more

hopeful politics. they want people who are helping us to rise to the better angels of our nature and i'm so excited about this new era in the commonwealth and really the country. >> they certainly got somebody positive in you, sir. justin fairfax, the new lieutenant governor elect. congratulations. >> thank you so much, joy. thanks for all the great work you do. we look for a bright new era in this country. >> i really appreciate this. up next, shawn hannity defends roy moore. on another note completely not positive. ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. (dad) she's all yours. (vo) but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

money managers are pretty much the same. all but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. i've been investigated more than any other person in this country. to think that grown women would wait 40 years to come before -- right before an election to bring charges is absolutely unbelievable. >> wow. on saturday during this very show alabama senate candidate

roy moore made his first public appearance since allegations first reported in the washington post said he had sexual encounter with a 14-year-old girl 40 years ago when he was 32. he denied the claims. he said that comments we aired live. fox did not take moores comments live mentioning the story once and only very briefly that hour and emphasizing charges that old are difficult to prove. this should come as no surprise. fox has been twisting itself into pretzels trying to be able to defend a predator of teens. on fridayperiod on shawn hannity's radio program to insist that as the father of a daughter and grandfather to granddaughters he did, indeed, care about young ladies and then came this. >> would it be unusual for you as a 32-year-old guy to have

dated a woman as young as 17? >> not generally, no, if i did, you know, i'm not going to dispute anything, but i don't remember anything like that. >> but you don't specifically remember having any girlfriend that was in her late teens even at that time? >> i don't remember that, and i don't remember ever dating any girl without the permission of her mother. >> back with me is the washington post jennifer reuben. jonathan capeheart also of the washington post, gabriel and eric bullard of shared blue. i'm going to you first, eric. you had shawn hannity really doing his best to try to rehabilitate judge moore. he had a twitter meltdown going after cnn's jake tapper over the weekend on friday because the tweets have since been deleted. he was essentially trying to say that he didn't justify a relationship with an under age child calling jay tapper fake jake because essentially on his

tv show he had appeared to kind of justify what happened. what's going on at fox? is there a fear of boycotts happening? why do you think he's being so sensitive but also still defending roy moore? >> yeah, he's trying to split this in a weird way. being sensitive is being kind. so he -- i think he's afraid of what happened to bill o'reilly. he's afraid of what happened to glen beck. glen beck called barack obama a racist. he lost his show. bill o'reilly was the sexual predator at fox news and he lost his show. activists have gone after hannity in the past, but they haven't had a real clear attack line like glen beck and bill o'reil o'reilly. shawn hannity defends pedophilia is an attack line. if you go to advertisers with that, you will get a response. it's difficult for advertisers to say, we're okay with this. we like shawn. we like his environment. he can see the writing on the

wall. this is dangerous territory for him. fox news is always going to defend -- fox news mirrors the republican party. today the republican party is this heartless kind of soulless enterprise under trump and that's what fox is. so people who expected to have any kind of shame or any kind of decency or to step forward and say, you know, roy moore, you crossed a line, we're not going to find it. we're simply not going to find it. that's not their goal at this point. >> to that point on advertisers, advertisers had begun to distance themselves from the hannity show because of their moore coverage according to heal. judge janine piro is being more explicit in trying to defend roy moore. here she is doing that. >> how can this guy and if the allegations are true, i mean, i spent my career going after sexual predators and pedophiles, trust me, but right now it's 40

years later. i doubt there could ever even be a charge filed here. the guy has been investigated a million times, roy moore, apparently more than any other candidate in alabama. is the republican party destroying themselves or didn't they do enough vetting of moore? >> at fox one would think it would not be that hard to get all of the on air talent to understand the simple equation sexual encounter with a child is a crime and one shouldn't try to defend it. you do still have hosts really trying to find a way to defend moore. what do you think is going on there? >> from what i hear from my sources inside fox is that the network is leaderless at this point. really i think the best way for your viewers to think about fox news is that the executive producer, the person who runs fox news is actually donald trump but inside the network there's no -- there's no boss who has the stature and the

credibility that roger ales did to get all of the hosts in line. what you have are people programming their shows with what they think donald trump would want them to see on their shows. so you kind of have this muddled mixed message back in the roger ales days the network would operate in lock step. this roy moore story is one example. you have large portions of the network ignoring it, trying not to cover it. then you have hosts like hannity and pirro doubling down on it. ultimately this is another example of the network in service of donald trump. >> let me turn to my washington post panel that's here at the table. jonathan, the other person who may want to say his programming fox news is breitbart because they have to compete with breitbart's media operation and messaging, which is a lot more unabashed about slavishly being

devoted to donald trump. they might be on equal footing. here's steve bannon which he apparently does while watching cnn and this show sometimes. >> oh. >> talking about roy moore and who he thinks is out to get roy moore. >> this is about destroying roy moore. you know why they want to destroy roy moore? they want to destroy anybody that will step up and speak in your behalf. you know what our response is? bring it. bring it. you have not seen anything yet. you think we're going to back down one inch, you are dead wrong, folks. paul singer, write this down, and you and these republican scum bags, and that's what you are, you operatives, and here's the good news, folks, we know your names and more importantly, folks, we know your clients. >> paul singer is the person who had the washington free beacon, the investor behind the

washington free beacon. they paid for the stories. >> singer is saying, bring it, stephen? fine. i'm ready for it. steve bannon is saying people are going after roy moore because he's speaking on your behalf. old men who have dates with teenage girls, is that who they're defending? >> this whole thing is so other worldly that the republican party i thought i knew, the republican party that told me at least for three decades who they were, evangelicals, god fearing, upright, moral, all of those things is now suddenly thrown out the window with the election of donald trump as president and now people who are twisting themselves, as you said, into

pr pretzels, as you say, in the washington post story it says he would pick up the dates from around the corner where she lives. if it's a true southern gentleman, ripping the bell. it's one more piece of evidence of just how far the republican party has gotten away from the republican party. >> there's a story that people who worked with roy moore knew that he was -- frequently would date teenagers and that he was known to hang around like, you know, i don't know, places where teenagers would hang out. >> football games. >> he'd troll football games looking for dates. the other thing that's weird because if the point here, jennifer, is the point that we must have roy moore because we must maintain the senate

majority. the senate majority leader. he had some choice words for him on that radio show yesterday. here that is. >> mitch mcconnell, you're like a deer that's been shot. you're just going to bleed out, brother. you're just going to bleed out. i've got you, okay? you're done. you think you're going to do that and bail on this guy? it's the republican establishment. it's going to be proven and we're coming after you. >> that's the mentality of things that are going on. you have a republican party that's devolved into true tribalism. whatever they have to do, lie, cover up, violate their own oaths they hope to because the tribe is everything.

that majority is more important than keeping a child molester out of the capitol. the second thing that's going on is bannon is trying to remake the party in his image. >> yeah. >> he wants them all to be as crazy as it is. this is an ego trip for him. this is an ego trip for the president. punish their allies. what would they do with a majority? they can't legislate. this is all about their eeg go. the delay that andrew bright bark claims is being charged with sexual harassment. gabe, i want to talk about the other things going on out there because you have fox attempting to have a merm ger with sky. that's happening at the same

time this is happening. you have donald trump, apparently his administration, trying to push to intervene in the at&t time warner american ger. >> so you have both two things happening -- >> rupert mourdock is in a vulnerable position at this point. they don't have the scale that their competitors do that have merged with these giant telecommunications companies. in the case of time warner, with the at&t merger it would allow them to reach their customers on mobile platforms, in their homes, and so a conneding tie mu reporting, he said that he was going to work behind the scenes to block that teal. what they've talked about is they see this deal, the justice department's 180 as calling it a favor on behalf of rupert

mourdock that we shut point out they tried to buy time warner. this is a case where hue -- this relationship perhaps will provide business dividends to rupert mourdock if trump can stop this merger. >> eric, our previous guests, they are talking about state runnemede yeah, you will support the president, whoever the party wants. you will not speak ill or report negatively on the president or we will stop you from doing business. this sounds like what they've done for sinclair broadcasting. on the flip side what have they

done? >> own sinclair. >> all immediate consolidation deals are good if sinclair is behind it. then they do 180, media consolidation is not good. we need cnn to have a new owner. yeah, this is putin, this is kremlin, this is authoritarianism. this is why fox news should not be seen as a media operation. their only purpose is tribalism. fox news in 20 years has gone through many incore nations. if you want back through, the florida re/count and now we're seeing completely der5i8d.

>> yeah. it is remarkable to woch. ever never and robert. thank you. we appreciate you guys. more "a.m. joy" after the break.

given these circumstances do you think republican candidates should vote for doug jones, the republican dant? >> jeb, i think he should step aside. lisa murkowski is urging somebody down there to do that. you know, people of alabama have to figure it out. i would hope they would say, no, this is not acceptable. maybe the party will do it. pressure is mounting. we'll see what happens. this morning republican officials like governor kasich

are weighing in on the allegations. they' moore has denied the allegations but pressure is mounting for him to drop out of the race. our panel is back. e.j., i'll go to you first and let you respond. mark short was on me"meet the press" with chuck today. take a lissin ompt. >> is this senate eat that important? >> there is nothing more than pedophilia. >> having said that, we have to afford him the chance to defend himself. >> how would he be proven guilty, e.j.? it's 40 years ago. >> the dishardening thing.

>> any charge made against the republican -- a republican has to go through some elaborate litigation before anybody on the republican side can believe it. and mitt romney, who earlier in his career cozied up to donald trump said it pretty fladly, in elections innocent until proven guilty is not necessarily the standard. you showed that clip from john kasich. john kasich is and was a very important conservative republican, and he still is, but because the party has gone so off the edge he looks like a liberal statesman now. john kasich is not a liberal. >> no. >> but the party is in a very strange place and the most disturbing thing is there were people actually saying better going to a 14-year-old.

that is how tribal our politics has become. that should scare everybody. >> people like pat toomey. he considered jennifer to be an ordinary republican. chuck todd is trying to ask him about the allegations against roy moore and here is what happened. take a listen. >> >> reporter: you've said 40-year-old accusation twice. why does that matter? >> it matters because it just raises the question about the credibility. i have said i don't find the denial terribly credible, but when someone waits 40 years before they make an ak cue si sayings, there seems to be enough there. >> larry craig had to resign. >> right. >> because he touched another man's foot in a bathroom and there was no way to proof that he had even intended to do

anything, right? >> right. >> i find that incredible that you have ordinary -- >> there are multi-posted that. only four women but 30 witnesses. do we need 60 or 80 or 100? what's the magic number that's going to convince these people? and the notion that a child who is molested has the obligation to come forward -- >> at 14! >> -- at 14 is beyond offensive. to hear mark short saying relations between an adult and a child are terrible but on the other hand, there's sex reform. this is the mentality. it's sick. they are going to humiliate themselves and the party if they

stick with this guy. >> you have a poll out. it has doug jones up, which i haven't seen before. i think i had seen them tied. this has doug jones at 48-44. is it unrealistic to think that in a place like today, it's still not repeatable, is it possible to even think that a democrat could win that race? >> in the age of trump, all things are possible. so, you know, doug jones could pull this out, but the thing that keeps holding me back is it's alabama and you've got elected officials on the record saying we'll stick with him and invoking this. >> and taking away her virgin mary status, that's what they're trying to say. >> right. and adding on something that jennifer said, there were 30 witnesses in the washington post

story. the other thing that should not be discounted and more important, the four women are on the record. they've put their names out there. >> that's right. >> who cares that it's 40 years later. they are stepping forward now. how many stars are always complaining they, some republicans say unnamed sources. the sources are -- >> on the record. >> -- still out there. >> the woman is a trump voter. donald trump was quoted in "the hill" as calling the former leaders of the intelligence community, hacks. give me a break, they're hacks. you have brennan, clapper and comey, former head of the fbi. comey has been proven to be a liar and proven now to be a leaker essentially still battling and having never said a cross word.

john brennan responded. >> he said political hacks because he was trying to delegitimize what was done. they did not write that. it was written by the professional law enforcement officers of this great country. secondly, i feel very honored and considering the source, i consider that criticism a badge of honor. i found it particularly reprehensible that on veterans day that donald trump would attack and impugn the integrity of jim clapper who served? the soil. can you imagine a democratic senate doing that on foreign soil, on foreign soil. >> this is why that back balk this morning that donald trump did how he didn't say he didn't

believe putin. he believes that putin believes he didn't hack the election really meant nothing. that was not the only thing he said. he called comey, brennan and whatever. so the fact that he called them hacks, brennan made a really good point. he said, we didn't write the assessment. these were career intelligence agency officials who spent a long time investigates this and they concluded that this happened. and i would also note, this is not the first time russia has meddled in an election. they used the template that they did in ukraine for the american election. it did it very, very successfully. trump is trying to create a distinction between vladimir putin and some rogue hackers. he's trying to make the opinion that putin didn't call for it.

>> it is frequentishly horrifying that he could say i believe that putin believes it. >> his explanation, his cover up is astounding because he is saying that vladimir putin doesn't run russia. he's saying this was some lark. >> it was the infamous 400 pound man. imagine john f. kennedy saying nikita khrushchev said there weren't any missiles in russia. what in the world would we have done? >> he believes -- i have to make one more turn back to alabama. i have to go back one more time. we don't talk enough about the judiciary. donald trump has named a 36-year-old man. the american bar association says he's unqualified and he's a blogger and he has pledged his

support. >> this person should not be on the bench. this person has not tried a case. this person is testimony personally unfit to be in the judiciary in a lifetime appointment. this is what republicans are voting for. can you imagine what would have happened if obama or "w" or clinton or ragan or anybody had do that. >> well, it came up in page. >> you wrote "one nation after trump." i'm going to leave it to you to discuss. how does any of this get fixed? there will not always be a donald trump in the white house and at some point american leadership around the world will have to be restored that he has thrown away. the american judiciary will have to recover from having real hacks on it. the american intelligence community will have to have a

few future relationship. >> we saw in the elections last tuesday what happens when people who know this is wrong or bad for the country start mobilizing. that's a first step. i think the second step is represent cabs taublicans looki happened last tuesday saying we can't leave our party like this. this is not in the long-term interest of our voting. there are a lot of people around the world who understand that a majority of americans now, a vast majority of americans don't agree with donald trump. i think we're going to lose some ground here in the trump years that will get you farther away. that will take the -- we just have to acknowledge that a lot of damage is being done to our country and standing in the

world. >> indeed. thank you guys very much. appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, donna brazile joins me live. you do not want to miss it. mike and i are both veterans, both served in the navy. i do outrank my husband, not just being in the military, but at home. she thinks she's the boss. she only had me by one grade. we bought our first home together in 2010. his family had used another insurance product but i was like well i've had usaa for a while, why don't we call and check the rates? it was an instant savings and i should've changed a long time ago.

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if the democratic party is looking to send thank you cards for its big virginia victories, the exit polls make it pretty clear who should be at the top of their list, black women. who lent 91% of their support to ralph northam. and with the win at democrats' backs after tuesday's election results, a focus on the key constituencies could help them drop a blueprint for winning strategy in 2018. emphasis on could because as my

next guest observed in the new book, reflecting on the 2016 election, the democratic party has snatched victory from defeat. donna br donna brazile. author of "hacks." >> it is a great joy to be here on "a.m. joy." >> i appreciate you coming. african-american voters really delivered in virginia, really delivered in new jersey. you write in your book that in the 2016 election robby mook and the campaign didn't want to spend more money in getting the obama coalition out? is that a fair assessment? in their opinion the african-american vote was very important. >> it was extremely important. they understood that we had to not just mobilize the obama coalition but we had to ensure that they got out and several of them in 2012. i want to applaud me and my

colleagues who went out there last year to work on the campaign. the clinton campaign was focused on 270 electoral votes, but as chair of the democratic party, i was focused on electing democrats up and down the ticket. from the courthouse all the way to the white house. one of the reasons why i said early on in the book, they thought giving the dnc chair $2 million for 10 weeks, that's not enough money, joy. i knew we needed more money to invest in down ballot races. >> you had real challenges and you wrote infamous character brandon who was sort of the minder from the clinton campaign who was there to sort of watch over you even though you were the chairman. you write in the book in one of the more evocative passages, there are a lot of them, that essentially your requests for money were being denied. you were getting frustrated. this is what you're telling brooklyn, trying to get yourself

heard. you never give me any money to do my damn job. from this time on we're keeping the money raised. patsy is keeping her money. >> yeah. you can imagine when i made those comments i was frustrated. donald trump went into a black community and said what the hell do you have to lose? joy, in my mind i thought health care, voting rights, gay rights. i thought about all of the great progress the president had made on the economy, all of the great progress the president had made on climate reform. my job as the chair of the democratic party was to advocate on behalf of democrats up and down the ticket. while brooklyn had a certain amount of control over the dnc, i did not want anyone to control the chair of the party for obvious reasons. i am a nonpaid volunteer helping hillary clinton and democrats up and down the ticket. that was my job. >> yeah. you also write in the book about

clinton and black voters, all the data showed that 1% or fewer of black folk supported donald trump so that vote seemed to brooklyn to be in the bag for hillary. no need to spend any money to court it. i knew that was true but there's a difference in telling a pollster you support it and getting them out the door. are you accusing the clinton campaign in dropping the black vote and that's why she didn't prevail? >> i'm one of a few people in the country, there are a lot more out there, i understand how to get out the vote. that is what i was trained to do. that's what i know how to do. i can't go out there, joy, and tell members of your family, even members of my family, let alone people that don't look like us that i need their support, i need their support, i have no literature or material. as chair of the party i thought get literature and material in the hands of people that would support hillary.

>> madam chair, we don't hear anything in our language. we don't have any material. my job was to advocate for those voters who wanted to help hillary clinton win and that's what i tried to do. >> i want to switch to this question that obviously this is the opening gamut of the book. the piece in "politico" that talks about whether you and bernie thought the election was rigged. you believe it was not. there were several pages in which you say having looked at the election, you did not find any evidence that it was rigged. there was no rigging. but there have been excerpts that have been posted and headlines that suggest that you do, that you do believe that the primary -- once and for all, in your view were the primaries rigged against bernie sanders? >> i said in my book, no, i found no evidence that the process was rigged, however, what i did find disturbed me. i said it was not illegal, because it's not illegal to set up joint fundraising agreements,

but it was unethical in my judgment to have a process by which in exchange for bailing a democratic party out, we were broke. secretary clinton said that earlier this year, we were broke but you know what, the democratic party should not be under the control of any candidate until that nomination process is over. and so i went to bernie with my findings and i told him what i had thought and he accepted it because clearly i got a chance over the next few months to work with bernie and others, including supporters of martin o'malley and the other candidates, to get out the vote for hillary clinton. >> i'll read that pass. he said bernie had legitimate reasons to complain about the wikileaks. i had been totally forthcoming. overall the game was not rigged against him. at issue was this joint fundraising agreement that hillary clinton signed in 2015 essentially gave her ultimately control of the party but only if she became the nominee. didn't all three democratic

candidates sign jfas. if she had a jfa that would kick in and bernie had one, too, and o'malley had one, too, then how was that even unfair to bernie sanders? >> first of all, it was unfair to have a memorandum of understanding, this was an addendum to the joint fundraising agreement. this addendum to the joint fundraising agreement gave them control over three departments. i found more evidence even with those three departments. research, checks, coms and fundraising. they found no evidence in the primary process. having your research starting in late fall of 2015, i know they were focused on republicans. i found evidence that they were focused on bernie sanders. the evidence i did find i brought it to light, including my own dnc e-mails. i mean, look, i had a dnc account, too, that was hacked. >> evidence of what? i think the question is -- and i

have talked to some former clinton staffers who their expression is essentially, look, this was a joint project together to elect hillary clinton and they are expecting that, you know, it's sort of hurtful to sort of portray them as having sort of cheated against bernie sanders when all the rules were four years earlier and he knew what they were and he played by them. >> joy, remember, i'm on the rules committee. i can tell you as a member of the rules committee, we did nothing to prevent anyone to run. bernie sanders could run and we allowed him to run. here's where i take issue with anybody who is unfamiliar with the addendum that was written. >> i'm going to ask you to hold that answer until the other side of the break. we're going to pay for all of this and then when we come back we're going to have you finish that. coming up, we'll talk more alabama and virginia. we'll be right back. hey, man. oh!

nice man cave! nacho? [ train whistle blows ] what?! -stop it! -mm-hmm. we've been saving a lot of money ever since we switched to progressive. this bar is legit. and now we get an even bigger discount from bundling home and auto. i can get used to this. it might take a minute. -swing and a miss! -slam dunk! touchdown! together: sports! they told me i should talk about something that's going on in the world, politics, something -- a hot topic. well, here's the thing. i don't really pay attention to the news or anything.

all my news comes from the beauty shop, okay? when i get my hair done, i find out what's going on in the world, and we've been talking about a lot of different stuff. they were talking about in the beauty shop the other day about donald trump. dang, who is doing donald trump's wigs? his hair is off the chain. his hair is looking so good since he became the president. what kind of glue is he using? because when the wind blow it doesn't move or nothing. that's good hair right there! >> last night nbc "saturday night live" was hosted by tiffany haddish. she became the 12th woman to host the broadcast. the show had fun with the democratic party's stodgy factor despite their wins in tuesday's election. >> we love our fresh new ideas delivered by fresh new faces like me, nancy pelosi. >> and me, dianne feinstein. >> and me, chuck schumer. >> also tim kane. >> and i'm team player donna

brazile. >> next, the real donna brazile and what's next for the democrats. >> we're back. >> i will destroy all of this. even though geico has been- ohhh. ooh ohh here we go, here we go. you got cut off there, what were you saying? oooo. oh no no. maybe that geico has been proudly serving the military for over 75 years? is that what you wanted to say? mhmmm. i have to say, you seemed a lot chattier on tv. geico. proudly serving the military for over 75 years. you ok back there, buddy? i've always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free. it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. try super poligrip free.

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in a new book donna brazile recalls the moment hillary clinton's fainting spell prompted her to consider invoking a rail to allow the chair to replace a disabled nominee. only one choice to make, i thought about joe biden, well now after sitting out the election in 2016, politico is reporting that biden is thinking about -- joe biden as the perfect nominee for 2020. donna back with us. i want to finish off with this question, the question is, if there was a joint fund-raising equipment that hillary clinton signed and martin o'malley had one and bernie sanders had one, how can it be unethical even if

they all had the same access to the same thing? it. >> was an addendum to the joint fund-raising agreement that went into effect before the primary was over and lasted until the election was over. >> you can send us a copy of that? >> absolutely. if you impede the ability of a chair of a national political party, in my judgment, of doing her job in order to win elections up and down the ballot your money should not determine or dictate where the chair of the party determined and dictate where the money is needed. >> that i think if you read the book and go through your book the sense i get of it, is that you didn't feel that the primary was rigged against bernie sanders, you felt that brooklyn, that clinton campaign essentially rigged the game against you, against the chair of the dnc? >> what my argument in the book on this issue of the resource is that it impeded our ability to do our job as the party.

the party's job is not just to elect the president, which we supported 100%, but also, democrats up and down the ballot. if you're a democrat -- i've been accused, saw this last week, donna sent money to chicago, yes, i did. you know why? the dnc could send robo calls, resources into chicago. i wanted to make sure the vote was getting -- was going to get out all across the country, not just in the battleground states but expansion states. if tammy duckworth said send me robo calls, i did. if karen carter peterson in louisiana said send me posters, everything jamie harrison in south carolina i helped. when i go to bed at night that bothers me sometimes, i can't sleep at night because donnie fowler jr. one of my staffers said they need 150,000 more in michigan. i said i don't have it. ed rendell needed 300,000 in pennsylvania. i didn't have it. i had to raise it. j.k. butterfield said there's

something wrong in north carolina i need more resources. my job as chair i heard from everybody in battleground states, nonbattle ground states and when the chair of the party has to go up to brooklyn to get money and then to get them to approve even my press releases this mou, which i did not blow up, i felt that, you know, hillary clinton didn't deserve this. this was an agreement between the dnc staff, who by the way was no longer on staff and robby mook who was and i honored and respected robby mook not destroying that agreement. >> sounds like what you're saying robby mook you blame the clinton campaign manager and debbie wasserman-schultz for an agreement that tied your hands. >> i think in the future we should never have a separate agreement -- i know the dnc was broke, i know that we still had a debt to you pay off, i know that, you know, president obama was committed to helping them pay that debt down, along with vice president biden, but hillary clinton she stepped up, she stepped up to help us raise money and as a result of that,

the campaign put the dnc on a starvation diet before i became chair. all i said when i became chair is fine, i'll live by this agreement, he i'm not going to blow it up, which i had to pay a lot of people until the end of the year, i wasn't getting paid, i was a volunteer. if i raise my own money and thank god to organized labor and many others who stepped up to me, no one should tell me how to spend it. i'm raising it on behalf of the democratic national committee. >> i'll combine these two. number one, joe biden now thinking about running. the -- feels like there is a civil war in the democratic party that will not end. the primary that will never end. >> it's going to end. >> do you feel you have contributed to that by writing this book in. >> no. i hope i contribute to the healing of our party. i want us to run campaigns in all 50 states, and if my book allows us to run campaigns in all 50 states great. if my book allows us to invest in candidates in down ball lat races in kansas, georgia, montana, great. if my book tells the american

people we should not allow foreign government to meddle in our election affairs and donald trump should not call this a hoax, but we were under attack, great. >> yes or no question, should joe biden run? >> it's up to joe biden. >> more "am joy" after the break. not just being in the military, but at home. she thinks she's the boss. she only had me by one grade. we bought our first home together in 2010. his family had used another insurance product but i was like well i've had usaa for a while, why don't we call and check the rates? it was an instant savings and i should've changed a long time ago. there's no point in looking elsewhere really. we're the tenneys and we're usaa members for life. usaa. get your insurance quote today. the market.redict but through good times and bad... ...at t. rowe price... ...we've helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence.

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♪ ♪ that does it for me today. we will be back next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. for the latest news we will go over to alex witt while i jump on facebook live with donna brazile. what's happening? >> can i just start with the lead here, which is your hair and how fabulous it is. >> thank you. >> i love it, joy reed. >> the amazing cocoa for doing it, the great look, thank you very much. >> yeah. it looks great. as was your entire conversation with donna brazile. we look forward to your facebook live. thank you for the handoff. >> thank you. >> good day to all of you. alex witt at nbc west coast headquarters in los angeles. high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. in the west and here's what's happening, shock poll. new numbers out in the last hour