the american president talking about human rights, and equal rights, and the first lady going to china and saying, women's rights are human rights. gay rights are human rights. we're always trying to be that moral center, and i think that we've totally come to a place where we're morally bankrupt, to use evan's term, as a country right now because we have a leader that essentially legitimizes human rights violations. >> we're out of time. thanks to you all. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now with katy tur in for chuck. >> hi, nicolle. i'm in d.c. you're so far away. >> i miss you. >> i miss you, too. see you tomorrow. for you at home, if it is monday, more trouble for roy moore. tonight, another woman steps forward with allegations against roy moore. >> this has nothing whatsoever to do with the republicans or the democrats. it has everything to do with mr. moore's sexual assault when i

was a teenager. >> what is the political tipping point? >> i believe the women, yes. plus, backlash from president trump's meeting with putin. >> it certainly shows that the president is -- is gullible to being manipulated by vladimir putin. and at the wall. >> here we currently have a national park on the u.s. side and protected areas on the mexican side as well. >> a unique view on the president's promised wall. this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. good evening. i'm katy tur in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." republicans in washington may have hit their breaking point because a bad situation in alabama just got worse -- much

worse. this afternoon another woman came forward with allegations that roy moore sexually assaulted her when she was a minor. mitch mcconnell is calling for to step down as the republican party's candidate in next month's special election to the u.s. senate. his top deputy, john cornyn, just pulled his endorsement. and senator cory gardner, runs the senate's gop arm says the senate should vote to expel him if he wins. a lot of republicans are suggesting they believe moore's accusers, which raises the question, does the white house? moore's candidacy was rocked by allegations that he initialled sexual contact with minors. he's denied the allegations calling them false, untrue and politically motivated, but more of them are surfacing. this afternoon beverly young nelson alleged moore sexually assaulted her when she was 16 years old. here's part of the statement she

made alongside her lawyer, gloria allred. and we should warn you, what you are about to hear is disturbing and it is graphic. >> mr. moosh reare reached othe began groping me and putting his hands on my breast. i tried to open my car door to leave, but he reached over, and he locked it so i could not get out. i tried fighting him off while yelling at him to stop. but instead of stopping he began squeezing my neck attempting to force my head on to his crotch. i thought that he was going to rape me. i was twisting and i was struggling and i was begging him to stop. at some point -- at some point he gave up. and he then looked at me and he told me -- he said, you're just

a child, and he said, i am the district attorney of the county, and if you tell anyone about this, no one will ever believe you. >> nbc news has not independently confirmed any of the allegations against moore. in a statement today moore accused allred of leading a "witch-hunt" but the floodgates are opening. senate republicans are calling on moore to quit the race including the senate's top republican. >> do you believe these allegations could be true? >> i believe the women, yes. i think he should step aside. >> we had time to look into this, and it seems to me that those allegations have a lot of credibility. and i have not heard a response that has that level of credible. yes. it would be best if he stepped aside. >> it would be better if someone replaced judge moore. better for the state of alabama if a different person steps forward. >> i have to say i think the

accusations have more credibility than the denial. it would be best if moore stepped aside. >> moore responded to mitch mcconnell. the person who should step aside is mitch mcconnell. he has failed conservatives and must be replaces. despite a chorus's republicans urging him to quit moore says he isn't going anywhere and vowing to sue the "washington post" for the story it ran details allegations against him. so here we have a republican candidate for high office who mainstream republicans already thought was unelectable because of his extreme views and extreme rhetoric, refusing to step aside, being abandoned by leaders in his own party, facing mounteding allegations of sexual misconduct just weeks way from an election. this is a scenario the republican party grappled with before. they did not hit their breaking point them. have they hit it now? msnbc's garrett haake is on capitol hill.

my colleague von hilliard is reporting on this story from alabama. von, i want to start with you. you've been talking to voters out there in alabama trying to get a sense where they stand. a local told us that this is a republican town, man. moore could have killed obama, and we wouldn't care. is that generally the sentiment down there? that roy moore can get away with anything, because she a republican and not a democrat? >> reporter: a conversation i had with a gentleman at the convenience store in gallant, the small town. you remember, a lot of parts of alabama including where roy moore is from there in that town, it's rural, sprawling republican, staunch republican. but i want to say, though, we're in birmingham. where we are right now. this is where he's going to have to target doug jones. talking about the democrat in this race. target to ultimately pull this off. he's going to target the millennials. women, targeting the more well educated, because donald trump had just one year ago the

largest victory any republican has ever had inside of alabama. one year later, to pull it off, doug jones, who we haven't heard much from over the last couple days, remained silent, allowed this to go out. we got a statement from the doug jones campaign here just this afternoon saying a we applaud the courage of these women. roy moore will be held accountable by the people of alabama for his actions." we've seen polls over the last 24 hours, some with roy moore up, others have doug jones up in the race. a woman who never voted for a democrat in his life but this situation is different. doug -- roy moore just won, in 2012, won his election by three percentage points over the democrat. that is before any of these allegations ever came forward, obviously. >> vaughan, mitch mcconnell is saying he should step aside as well as others. do alabama voters care what they think? >> reporter: no.

i mean, look at it, a month and a half ago, when $30 million was spent against roy moore and his candidacy and he won by ten points over the sitting republican senator luther strange. really what they're doing at this point is running us against the world mentality. and the gop including seven republican congressmen have not stepped away from roy moore at this point. the governor of alabama just today said at this point, under the facts she's aware of, she would vote for him. in terms of looking inside alabama, he has support he needs structurally to run this race. looking at what his actual messaging is, his wife kayla moore put out a statement today claiming that they have evidence of payments to these accusers. so if they can convince enough republicans in this state that this is a conspiracy, that the man they've known to hold public office for decades now as chief justice and a former candidate himself now potential senator is, in fact, the good man that he has been viewed as being across this state, they have a shot come one month from now, on

december 12. >> and beverly young nelson the allegations are only a couple hours old. we'll see how alabama voters react to that in the comes hours and days. garrett, it doesn't look like roy moore is going to step aside. he's giving no indication that he is going to do that, despite the calls from leaders in the republican party. if he does not, and say hypothetically he does get elected, what recourse do republicans in the senate have when it comes to roy moore? can they unseat him or expel him? >> reporter: yes. republicans have only bad options to contain roy moore at this point. a possibility of a write-in campaign to stop film gettinghi getting elected. it's unclear who could be the write-in candidate to definitely beat him and ensure doug jones doesn't win the seat. if he gets here the senate could refuse to seat him. usually that's done on constitutional grounds.

like if roy moore were separately 20 years old or an election that wasn't constitutionally viable or seat him and vote to expel him. takes a two-thirds vote to expel a senator. it could be done with all of the democrats likely to vote in favor of expulsion and enough republicans who come out and say that moore does not belong here, to reach that number, but, katy, that's so rare. the last time it happened it was in the 1860s. a senator was expelled for confederate sympathies. so, again, republicans have nothing but bad options, and i will say just from talking to senators, very few have wanted to go as far as cory gardner was willing to go and saying that he should be expelled. roy moore sort of, a professional martyr. sticks his finger in the eye of the establishment. he's been thrown off the bench twice. the idea that if he were to win he'd be immediately kicked out is the kind of thing that would probably galvanize some of his supporters in alabama to

continue to stick their thumb in the eye of the establishment, who does not want him here. >> garrett, quickly, mitch mcconnell says he should step aside. any indication he might be lobbying donald trump to get involved in this? >> reporter: it's entirely possible. the white house has said they're sort of staying out of this until the president is back stateside. remember, mitch mcconnell and his allies effectively lobbied donald trump to support luther strange in the first place. whether trump wants to get his hands dirty on this race again -- i don't know. could be a tough call. >> donald trump could have influence down there, as vaughn said. he won that state by a wide margin. let's not forget that back in august of 2015, he had 20,000 people show up for a rally to see him, and that was unheard of for a republican candidate that far away from any sort of primary or caucus. go ahead, garrett, quickly? >> reporter: katy, it wasn't transfer ferable to luther strange.

tweeted about him, campaigned for him and voters preferred moore by i think nine points. >> that's true. >> reporter: tough to see the president getting a second bite of the apple here. >> that is a good point. of course, moore wasn't facing allegations of pedophilia back then. see if that would change something. guys, thank you very much. let's bring in tonight's panel. a "washington post" columnist and deputy editorial page editor, and a chief white house reporter with "the boston herald" and executive director of latino partnership for conservative principles and former chief of the u.s. office of citizenship under president bush. guys, about a year ago, a little more than a year ago, a year and a month ago, the gop faced a pretty similar set of circumstances. donald trump had a, said things on an "access hollywood" tape and then women came out and accused him. by my account back then, 50 republican lawmakers, former and current, either asked for him to

step aside, or said they would not vote for him. things changed, by the time election day came around. if there wasn't a breaking point back then, could there be, a tipping point now, ruth? >> i think there clearly is a tipping point now. so the question is, what is different? one thing that's different is harvey weinstein and all of the discussion of sexual harassment that has come in the interim and so that's one difference. the other difference is, and i'm not supporting this in any way, but they couldn't afford not to back him. he wasn't -- like, perhaps like roy moore, though, really hard to see him persisting here. donald trump wasn't going anywhere. this was their presidential candidate, and so they all had to fall in line. >> roy moore isn't going anywhere and he is their -- >> but they can live without -- they couldn't live without a republican president. couldn't live with a viable

republican presidential nominee. i think the really uncomfortable question that senators have to -- >> but they could a month before the election. they were saying, step aside or i won't vote for you. >> but there wasn't a replacement possibility. there's not really a write-in possibility, but the question for me most interesting what do republican lawmakers, senators, and then what does president trump and the white house, say when the question comes up that you alluded to. why believe these women when you didn't believe those women back a year ago? >> look, i think there is a difference in the sense that this allegation, these allegations are very, very specific. >> they all were against donald trump were very, very specific. a number of them, and they came out and detailed the moments, the circumstances leading up to it. how he behaved afterwards. look at the woman, from, for "people" magazine. they were very specific as well. >> and the allegations, i believe the allegations are serious, it's also about how you respond to them. i'd say the trump campaign and

donald trump responded better. not saying ideal, than roy moore. >> he was lying. said they were lying. he said they were lying and then he would sue. >> apologize for the "access hollywood" tape but not the other. >> said they hadn't done anything -- >> 14-plus women said, both on the record, that he did. >> true. and was he constantly talking to the media? holding press conferences, talking to the media? yes. the case of roy moore only talked to a couple reporters. some answers worded strangely and from him and his spokespeople. i see a slight difference. >> another major difference, we are talking about minors. people who do not, did not have the ability to consent to any of this activity and also talking about somebody, look, for donald trump, a lot of his supporters thought, he's rich, famous, important. maybe women would make false accusations against him. these women have absolutely no incentive to speak out.

they have nothing to gain in this case. >> and he walked, donald trump, walked into -- i don't want to make this about donald trump. but walked into a miss teen universe pageant with girls -- >> if we're going to make it -- >> be clear, he denied everything. >> if we have to make it about donald trump then about many other politicians including bill clinton. >> yes, and they made it about bill clinton. >> and president of the united states -- >> hold on. let's get back to roy moore. beverly nelson, her press conference today clearly rattled a lot of people on capitol hill. mitch mcconnell camous just right after that, i believe, a number of other senate republicans pulled their support. do you think things change now that beverly young nems hlson h come out and said something on the camera? >> if they don't, it's a big thing for the republican party. this is beyond sexual assault, it's moved to that level. at this point i thought republicans had difficulties

last week when the first initial response was, "if the allegations are true he should step down." as if these women had to go beyond what they've done to prove themselves. at least have moved on to say he needs to step down and move forward. >> this is a tough question. what does it say about the republican party that republican voters in alabama might decide that an accused pedophile, accused sexual assaulter, is a better option than a democrat? >> it's a tough question, yes. look, i'm not sure that's the case, and i'm trying to see the polling. polling right now, it's a little all over the place. i did see a poll from emerson college has moore ahead over his opponent by 10%. if they end up giving the victory to roy moore it speaks terribly of voters in alabama. i mean, if you have somebody like that, where you've seen serious allegations where he has

some allegations adequately, i don't know how you can support something like that. >> does it shake your confidence in your party at all? >> not necessarily in my party. again we have to put it in historical context. sadly, it's happened in democrat and republican politics. in the end people are looking at a victory for republicans. in alabama, conservative state, would hate to stay home or vote for the democrat. sadly happens on both sides. if it happens, i think it would be terrible. >> you say it happens on both sides. a democrat accused of pedophilia that has gone on to win an election i don't know about? >> sexual assault, yes, bill clinton. serious allegations. the "new york times" reports there might be discussions to try and get jeff sessions to be appoint thoed back to that see the governor of alabama. if that happens, that opens up a -- positive move for the

president, i guess, because if he removed his a.g. he puts another not accused a.g. in his place. could that work out to the white house's benefit? >> certainly work out to the white house's benefit given the tension between donald trump and jeff sessions that remains at the head of -- him at the head of the justice department, but what a grenade to ask jeff sessions to take, on 3w5his par to get out of this and i would also presuppose roy moore comes, is expelled, and so many steps have to happen before that. >> "new york times" reporting, haven't confirmed that. we've run out of time for the first panel. back to you later in the hour. still ahead, does the president's trust in vladimir putin put future u.s. elections at a greater risk? ♪ video-game dance music

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welcome back to "mtp daily."

as president trump wraps up his long trip to asia, receiving criticism for cozying up to some of the world's authoritarian leaders. former cia director john brennan is questioning whether mr. trump is being manipulated by vladimir putin after the two met briefly on saturday. the white house says the meeting lasted five minutes or less. but afterwards, on air force one, the president once again cast doubt on putin's role in 2016 election meddling. "every time he sees me, he says i didn't do that, and i really believe that when he tells me that. he means it." president trump also called brennan a political hack, asked to clarify the next morning in veet na vietnam, the president has nicer things to say about u.s. intel agencies but still seemed conflicted about russian meddling. >> i believe that he feels that he and russia did not meddle in the election. as to whether or not i believe it or not i'm with our agencies

especially as constituted with their leadership. people don't realize, russia's been very, very heavily sanctioned. they were sanctioned at a very high level, and that took place very recently. it's now time to get back to healing a world that is shaltered and broken. >> and that isn't the -- that isn't the president's only friendly meeting with t controversial leader on this trip alone. also met with philippine leader duterte and spoke warmly about him, despite his reputation for widespread human rights abuses. after the meeting, the president said he had a "great relationship" with duterte. the white house says human rights, "briefly" came up in the context of the country's drug crackdown, but duterte's spokesman denied that. the president got into a little twitter name-calling with north korean leader kim jong-un. we'll dig into all of that when we come back in 60 seconds. the person who opens it.

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do you think he's been punished enough for the russian government punished enough by the united states? >> no. we have to raise the cost to putin for the outrageous behavior he's committed. >> welcome back. that was pennsylvania republican senator pat toomey on "meet the press" yesterday reacting to president trump's meetinging with russian president vladimir putin. joining me now, an nbc news national security analyst, and the former deputy assistant secretary for defense for russia and ukraine. a bit of a russia/ukraine expert we could call you. >> a little bit. i like to say i'm an export on foreign policies towards those two countries. >> good to know. donald trump is talking to vladimir putin. what do you think is going through putin's mind when donald trump comes out and repeats what he told them? >> he's thinking, great. i've got this guy, hook, line and sinker. we, of course, don't know exactly what he has on this guy.

why donald trump seems to be persuaded, you know, against all evidence that russia didn't hack the united states of america. luckily, he doesn't dispute a lot of other things, like russia's occupation, illegal occupation of ukraine. he talks about getting russia out of ukraine, to the credit of the president. he will talk about getting russia out of syria, but doesn't matter. because the macro message is, i trust vladimir putin and we should work with russia, which makes no sense. you need think about interests. not relationships. >> what about when he says they've been sanctioned a lot. but we need to move forward and we need their help when it comes to syria and isis? >> that's saying we need to let them off the hook, because russian behavior has not changed. not in syria, where they continue to support assad who is a, you know, capital human rights abuser. also russia's been complacent in bombing and human rights abuses committed in syria. they continue to, again, as i mentioned, violate ukraine's

sovereignty and continue to be in violation of a bilateral treaty with have with them on nuclear arms. across the board and, of course, don't admit they tried to subvert our elections. there's no need to take them off the hook. in fact, we should probably tighten screws on the sanctions. they're clearly having an impact if you look at the russian press, and i see some of it translated. the russians are nervous, and that's why they're trying really hard to pretend nothing ever happened. >> does it make them more bold in trying to meddle again in 2020, 2018? >> i think that -- well, that's a good question. i think depends on their read of the united states, because i think they understand that congress has their number and congress could, as i mentioned earlier, ratchet up sanctions. >> but the president -- >> the president doesn't. i think they will probably continue to meddle where they can and certainly in 2018, if i were somebody who was strongly outspoken and up for re-election, strongly outspoken

against russia and up for re-election i'd be worried. >> play what john brennan told cnn yesterday. >> i think mr. putin is very clever in terms of playing to mr. trump's interest in being flattered, and also i think mr. trump is, for whatever reason, either intimidated by mr. putin, afraid of what he could do or what might come out as a result of these investigations. >> the former cia director saying that the president of the united states could be afraid of the president of russia. >> he's hinting there. i mean, he's hinting there, sounds to me like -- you know, former cia director brennan is saying, i kind of believe in what the dossier says. >> the russian president has dirt. >> has something. could be not of kind of a salacious nature. it could be financial. but clearly the way the president is behaving is not normal. russia is not -- >> is there any explanation

whatsoever for him to be as friendly as he is to russia? still to this day he is, vladimir putin is -- i think -- the only person other than maybe ivanka that donald trump hasn't said a negative thing about. >> maybe duterte. i don't think he said anything negative about him. >> true. >> it's highly unusual. putin and his government are running counterpolicies across the board. i mentioned a bunch of them. counter to the united states interests. >> did you see the "atlantic" story, trump junior communicating with wikileaks, disseminating info they had on hillary clinton. the fact he's -- wikileaks is widely believed to be working with the russians. julian assange, a puppet of the russians. can that be considered evidence of trump/russia collusion? >> could be. first, of course, you know, the prosecution would have to show evidence that assange is knowingly working for the russian government. that's probably doable. i mean, the guy worked for --

look at the cong olohronology, start off as an arm of russia. once assange started working and there on forward, very much acting in concert with russian interests. never published anything on wikileaks counter to russia. in fact, there's a report out that a bunch of news organizations including bbc gave some information to wikileaks that was from the russian foreign ministry, wanted him to public it and he didn't. >> i suggest you at home check out "the atlantic's" most recent story about don junior and direct messaging with wikileaks and what don junior tweeted out soon after they messaged him. evelyn farkas, thanks for joining us. good to see you in person here in d.c. >> thank you. still ahead, it's lights, camera and political action as "meet the press" kicks off its inaugural film festival today. a sneak peek of one of the

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ahead on "mtp daily," biding time. first, we have the cnbc market wrap. >> hi, katy. stocks closing slightly higher on wall street. the dow gaining 17 points. the s&p up by 2. nasdaq adding 6 points. industrial giant ge fell 8% after issuing weaker than

expected guidance for 2018. the company cut its dividend by 50% saying it will focus on its health care aviation and energy businesses. mattel surging 20% on news hasbro wants to buy it. the deal combines the country's two largest toy manufacturers. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪

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welcome back. tonight "meet the press" hits the big screen for the very first time. in a joint venture with the american film institute, 16 political documentaries will be showcased at the inaugural "meet the press" film festival right here in washington, d.c. why i am here today. and one of the film's featured tonight explores a unique crossing point between texas and mexico. the film ferryman at the wall takes us to big ben national park in texas which has become a focal point for the border security debate, and where the president's proposed border wall would disrupt a decade's-old

partnership between the u.s. and mexico. here is a sneak peek. >> here at big ben, we currently have a national park on the u.s. side and then protected areas on the mexican side as well. in 2013, we were able to open a port of entry here in the park. so visitors that come to big ben can cross into mexico. people go down there expecting it to be like this big commercial port of entry. they're like, it's a rowboat? cool. >> we've got a big line over there. >> recently chuck spoke with the filmmaker behind "ferryman at the wall" and started asking him what drew him to the topic? >> the wall is a big story. still it. at the time we were researching, we made 40 films in our first year. so we constantly have our ear to the ground for a great story and were looking into the wall and found mike davidson, our ferryman. >> looking for a wall story? >> we were looking for a wall

story. want add way in. >> you didn't know -- this wasn't a case that came to you. we want to be a wall story. what are the different ideas? >> yes. this happens to us a lot and a lot of times we don't find the right story have to drop it and move on. in this case we found our ferryman and he operates the international ferry between the united states and mexico, essential lay rowboat. doing it 40 years now. and i just found him to just be an interesting and unique voice that i haven't seen on this debate. but the thing that really got us excited was finding out about the international park, which is something we also feature in the film, which in 1932 was proposed between two parks, one in america, in montana. glacier national park and the other one a sister park in canada and it was passed and we have an international park i didn't even know existed. >> make it make sense? oh. why wouldn't we? thought the same thing.

>> a beautiful utopian idea, you know jand apparently the following year, 193 3shgs the exact same thing was proposed between big bend and its sister park in mexico. and it's been proposed again a couple years later and proposed again and i guess it's still just a work in progress. >> but it is a work in progress. meaning, we obviously still want it to be a park on the u.s. side and the mexicans still want it to be a park on their side. so if it didn't officially become a park, how did, how did what we have become what it is? >> it's an agreement. it's a handshake. it's not formal. so i guess hard geologists aren't cooperating with their geologists financially. they have, a little town there. it is an amazingly charming mexican village so far away from the -- the stuff you hear on tv about, you know, sort of danger around the border and everything else. it's -- it's impossibly

adorable, and a lot of americans go to big bend national park in texas to visit this place in mexico. one of the big features is this village. >> cross over, like, hey -- feels to me like, a quaint version of tijuana. >> the idea is like -- >> more like a village. let's go to a village. tea wan knap its own thing, call it that? >> right. >> this feels like -- the same idea. >> right. that's right. and, you know, they are actually -- i think was four or five hours by road close to the closest other mexican town, population center in mexico. they're pretty isolated. they're nearest population center is big bend. >> so you sead yaid you were lo for a wall story. why? were you trying to debunk -- looking to debunk methology? what was the goal? >> we hear a lot of pundits with very strong opinions on both

sides, right and left. and it gets noisy. the arguments get noisy, and a lot of them, i don't think, i don't know for sure, but a lot of them haven't really seen the -- the border area themselves. you know? i just learned today that big bend national park actually encompasses 13% of the u.s./mexican border. >> not a small chunk. >> not a small chunk of change. >> yeah. >> and so when they're debating here abouts pluses and minuses of the wall i wanted to see for myself what the locals felt. what was actually happening there on the ground. and what i learned was that there isn't a straight line. there isn't an easy way to divide the two nations. there's a lot of cross-culture collaboration. >> the thing i've noticed with the border weekend folks that live on t live on the border they're all new on this issue. as you would expect. i grew up in miami. we had similar debates in the

'70s and '80s about immigration and weirdit. you hear that differently. what about the guy born in mexico, about legal immigration. i'm kind of a hypocrite, some of my family is illegal, too. he seen p seems to be torn. >> robert. one of our three ferryman. total character, mike davidson. he's also a ferryman. ferries on his atvs to give the tours there. he was born in mexico. tells us half of his family i don't mean to get anybody in trouble, but half his family are here questionably, let's say and he is a trump supporter. i don't want to play -- armchair psychologist with the guy, but it seemed to me that he was a person that was just trying to fit in where he was. he was a mexican living in texas. living in a time when there is a lot of noise around this issue,

and maybe it's easier just to sort of adapt and fit in. because i don't know. on a personal level i noticed that maybe he wasn't such a supporter. he wouldn't say that on camera but i had a feeling. >> you get the sense that everybody in these border states, even the ones, no matter which side of the issue they're on, the minute it gets personal, it's suddenly more nuanced? >> that's right. >> for everybody? >> yeah, yeah. it's a good way to put it and what we discovered. the nuance. we suspected there wasn't a black and white. >> "ferryman at the wall." thanks for doing it and hope to see you as the next "meet the press" festival. >> you can't make it tonight, don't worry. a digital film festival online and on demand.

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but who knows what the situation will be? i don't have any idea. i'm in good health, in good shape. knock on wood, as my mother wa say. but i just don't know. honest to god. that's the truth. >> you heard it right there. joe biden is not ruling out a run for the white house in 2020. the former vice president appeared on nbc's "today" show previewing his new book called "promise me dad" focusing on biden's experiences last year and his decision not to seek the presidency after the death of his son beau. we will be right back with more on the future of the democratic party. you don't want to miss this. i can guide you in? no, thanks , santa, i got this. looks a little tight. perfect fit. santa needs an f-150. that's ford, america's best selling brand. hurry in today for 0% financing for 72 months across the full line of ford cars, trucks and suvs! and just announced... get 0 % apr for 72 months plus $1000 cash back!

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welcome back, it's time for the lid. bring back the panel, ruth, kim beryl and alphonso. just played joe biden talking to the "today" show, he's not sure he's going to run, decidely not

closing the door. what do you make of that? >> it's 2017, election will be 2020 and always -- >> start running 1 1/2 years from now. >> as much as joe biden may want to get into race and think he has something to contribute, from what i see, democrats have the same problem as republicans, there's a disconnect between the voters on the ground, everyday lives and establishment. and joe biden, popular as he may be, still seen as part of that establishment. not sure he would have ease letter time generating support he would need for a run than hillary clinton did. >> but joe biden has ties to the obama machine. his vice president and connects with working-class americans. i would say would be attractive candidate for democrats and independents. >> he believes he's more popular with rural voters than donald trump is. >> sure and joe biden will always start talking about

scranton and working-class -- >> rust belt, not rural than donald trump, sorry. >> clearly believes he would have won this election if he had run instead of hillary clinton. clearly a tragic time for him, but it was very painful choice for him not to run. and he clearly at very least wants to remain relevant for the next stretch. and is really, really tempted. >> is it time for the democrats to bring in somebody without any baggage whatsoever, ties to the past? >> not baggage but i think it's important for all parties to really look, to stay relevant, look at younger generation, take a fresh look after election defeats. we're at time when democrats in power can't come up to comprehensive message to sell to voters. listening to the ground can only help the party. >> think about the campaign with

joe biden running against donald trump. last year towards end of the campaign, headline, joe biden talked about having a fist fight with donald trump outside of an auditorium, the school yard. these two men could get into it verbally in a way -- >> these two 70-something men. >> why talking about punching each other when that old rgs number one, but could get into it verbally in ways that hillary clinton could not. >> but problem that democratic party has, consistently moving towards the left, can the new faces connect with average working americans like joe biden could? not so sure. look at other candidates, korey booker, kamala harris or elizabeth warren, do they have a voice that connects with independent voters and working-class americans? i'm not so sure. >> do you think that the democrats -- i mean, do they

have enough of a message for voters for 2018 to flip the house. if they do, what happens? for 2018, we hate trump may be enough of a message. if you flip the house, you have subpoena power and impeachment power. might not be enough. we hate trump might work in 2018, you need more in 2020. >> first time i've heard a republican say this on the record, only off the record. roy moore's chances. if he wins is it better to -- if roy moore runs, better to have him or democrat and jeff flake says a democrat. do you agree? >> reminds me of the general election. i supported donald trump, ended up leaving the ballot blank. encourage people to leave the ballot blank if those are the two choices or write in somebody

else. >> different question right? >> roy moore or democrat, jeff flake said democrat. would you rather have roy moore as u.s. senator or doug jones? >> it's a very difficult question for a conservative. i go back to my decision -- >> okay. put it this way. accused pedophile or doug jones? >> wouldn't have accused pedophile. difficult decision. >> why is it so hard to put politics, party, tribalism aside and say the might not agree with democrat's views but -- >> unfair question. >> is it? that's the race. >> i think a valid vote is go vote. it's important go to the polls and leave the ballot blank, you're sending a message. that's what i did. >> or write somebody in i guess. >> don't have to vote for democrat. >> but question is is it better to have democrat or roy moore? >> not a hard choice and hope if

the shoe were on the other foot and accusations on the other side would say the same thing. it's about america as whole. have we become so partisan and entrenched in our tribes not going to see what's in front of our eyes. accused of horrific things and that should supersede party politics. >> could be that republicans expel him from the senate. a real possibility. new era in politics. >> it could. see if it comes to that. thank you very much for a spirited panel today. wonderful having you all here. we will be right back. i work overtime when i can get it.

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that is all for tonight. chuck will be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hour goes fwi faster when you're in d.c. >> washington is a place with a lot of distraction. >> just have more fun, maybe that's what it is. tonight we have a lot of show to bring you. we begin with the breaking news, something you don't often see, a full-blown republican revolt in the scandal over roy moore exploding to a level rarely seen. big news here is that four days after those allegations first broke in the "washington post," accusing moore of engaging in sexual activity with teena