be criminal. >> and good morning. it is wednesday, november 15th. welcome to morning joe. >> you know, actually a lot of that is very accurate. it was a very chaotic campaign and it was, you know, it's so funny, everybody looks back, says this was the machinations were this and that, no, it was a mom and pop operation. there was absolute complete chaos. so when people say, oh, nobody knew who papadopoulos was. it was a little general store. that's why he said they were his top people there. all those clips the attorney general said, steve bennett said, which was chaos and nobody thought that donald trump was going to when, including donald trump. so i think sometimes we re-write things and look back and think

there was some grand master tragedy. this is something america stumbled into. >> exactly. with us on set. are we saying the same thing? veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnacle. politics editor for the daily beast, sam stein, where are you? >> crazy. >> sam, what's the name of that park? >> nathan. >> have you been to nathan? >> not since. >> what do they do at nathan's park? >> they spoke weed. >> special agent. >> i'm going to tell my daughter to come home now. nbc news capitol hill correspondent and the host of. >> laser rock. >> casey d.c. on msnbc. >> good way to wake up, guys. >> i will start, so did you enjoy your time at dartmouth?

>> is that a rhetorical question? it's amazing, it's the best school ever. >> really? >> hanover, i'm one of those parents that get every excuse to visit. very annoying. cowboy for coffee? >> the best school in new hampshire for sure. >> at least. >> all right. enough about nathans park. >> garden. >> oh, it turn noose a guarden, does it? let's start with that testimony on capitol hill featuring tomorrow jeff sessions who once again faced questions about the trump campaign and alleged ties to russia. we will get to what he does and does not remember in just a moment, but first --? wasn't it fascinating actually that jeff sessions actually stepped up yesterday and did what our guest said he might do,

and that is be a part of the justice department that pushes back on the president trying to influence? >> well, that was the notable exchange from that hearing. sessions squared off with members of the house who were asking him to appoint another special counsel to look into allegations related to hillary clinton. here is an exchange between sessions and congressman jim jordan. >> what's it going to take to actually get a special counsel? >> it would take a factual basis that meets a standards of the appointment of a special count is el. >> and it sure looks like the fbi was paying the author of that document and it sure looks like a major political party was working with the federal government to then turn an opposition research document that quoted some national enquirer story to a do you mean to turn it into the fisa court to spy on the president's

campaign. season that all the things we know about james comey, doesn't that warrant naming a second counsel as 23 committee members asked you to do. >> i would say looks shrike not enough to appoint a special counsel. >> wow. >> kind of like what chuck rosenberg said yesterday, he said, you know what, i don't want to be polly annish, but there are a lot of men and women in the justice department. they have been there, they seen political tides come and go, i think they're going to do the right thing and jeff sessions, we're going to criticize him in a minute for forgetting or overlooking another russia meeting, but at the same time, as i pointed out yesterday, when america, when the republic needed jeff sessions to stand up and recuse himself, so justice might have a chance of being blind, he did it. >> he's done it twice now. he's in a terrible position.

he's got a president that's bullying him. you know, through twitter, which is not the best way to communicate with your staff. he's being push and prodded. he's got now the guys on the hill who are pushing against him. and he's done the right thing. he did right thing by recusing himself, he did the right thing by pushing back yesterday. his mandate, attorney general's mandate is taking a an aggressive stance on crime the opioid investigation. if we run away with these things blushed out, that's take i away with what he wanted to achieve. i thought he did a good job yesterday. >> we were talking be every the show, what's the most important story? we can talk about roy moore the polls, the calling, boerne my bernstein or whatever. we could have -- owe bernie bernstein or whatever. we could have talked about -- >> papadopoulos meet something.

>> what itself the most important ting that happened yesterday? >> we're talking about it right now. >> we said we had an attorney general that stepped up and did not look like he was not going to allow, looked like he was not going no allow our president, our republicans in congress turn this justice department into some device for a tyrannical autocrat in the making. >> yeah. we will get to the fact that he's prone to amnesia. we will get to that. >> it's just with his memory. >> on this specific facet of what happened yesterday, this is an attempt, a considered attempt by the president of the united states and allies in the house of representatives yesterday, jim jordan, the guy without a coat from ohio to turn the justice department into just a political property of the president, to inflict politic noose the justice department, which would affect the morale of the justice department. >> it would shatter constitutional norms. again, that's why we are

starting with this, because if he listened to donald trump. >> it would have been telling. >> this would shatter constitutional norms and would be chilling. >> yeah. and this thing is all over a canadian company purchased by the russians. the purchase as it involved the united states was approved by a committee that represented nine different federal agencies of the government. that's some conpier is tracy you hold together. -- conspiracy. nine different agencies. >> president trump has been hammering them calling the uranium modern day watergate. one of fox's leading journalists shepp smith took on the president's statements, calming them inaccurate in a number of way, noting the clinton state department had no power to veto or approve that transaction.

>> even so, the accusation is predicated on the charge that secretary clinton approved the sale. she did not. a committee of nine evaluated the sale. the president approved the sale. the nuclear regulatory commission and others had to offer permits and none of the uranium was exported for use by the u.s. to russia. >> that is your rainium one. >> so this was six minutes of beauty. we will have much more of shepp's surgical debucks of sessions ahead on the show. it's incredible smr shepp undercut this entire conspiracy theory. it is. >> the clown show -- >> it's called this wasn't hillary clinton saying give me mon i will take care of this. >> there were nine different entities.

she had a proxy that signed off on it. it wasn't her that signed off on it. it's difficult how you can orchestrate a conspiracy with nine other agencies. >> there are lot of things to criticize. >> be i the way, this was barack obama's administration, an administration that in many quarters had a hostility towards hillary clinton. in fact, a lot of people very close to the checkpoints as we all know had a hostility towards the clintons and if -- >> i think -- >> it wasn't an inside game, anybody that knows that relationship. >> correct. it's almost silly we are trying to deblunk u bunk it. it's been debunked so many times. to your point there is a propensity to lead us to these conspiracy fevers. whatever you think about jeff sessions, the ability to say we won't devote resources or a hint of that is noble. it reminded me a little bit of

the moment where there was a total different context. obama comes in it's 2009 and there was intense pressure for him to investigate the bush administration. it's torture. >> that is something that is waiting. there is a legitimate case remaining. obama's stance at the time i need the look forward, not backwards, we can't bear the idea of having to have this political seeming investigation so soon into my administration and he moved forward and i just kept thinking about that yesterday as jeff sessions kept talking about clintons. >> and that's what we were discussing yesterday. we just can't start a precedent where presidents come into office and immediately go after their predecessors, where they criminalize politics. yes, there were a lot of things every president i'm sure can go back and investigate from a previous president. why this is so short sided from

the day tradener chief f. he starts this precedent and tells them, listen, you and your father will be investigated by the next democratic president every day. >> if it even gets there. >> oh there is so much to investigate. it will never stop. so this is a president not only do the clintons not want and america doesn't want. this is a president that the trumps should not want. >> if the investigations that are happening right now bear no fruit, which is a stretch. so what exactly did jeff sessions know about any outreach between the trump team and russia? here's what he said last month. >> you don't believe that surrogates from the trump campaign had communications with the russian? >> i did not and i am not aware of anyone else that did. >> since then, it has been revealed that george

papadopoulos met with russians and was seated at the table with jeff sessions and then president trump when he suggested he could coordinate a meeting between trump and president putin. yesterday he told lawmakers he at first had no recollection of that march 2016 meeting with papadopoulos there he is until he saw news reports about it. >> i would like to address the false charges made about my previous testimony. my answers have not changed. i have always told the truth and i have answered every question as i understood them to the best of my recollection as i will continue to do today. i do now recall that the march 2016 meeting at the trump hotel is that mr. ban top lus attepaps attended. i have no clear recall of what he said. after reading my account to the best of my recollection, i

believe i wanted to make clear to him that he was not authorized to represent the campaign with the russian government or any other foreign government for that matter. but i did not recall this event which occurred 18 months before my testimony of a few weeks ago. >> clint, if i'm investigating or if i'm on a presidential campaign, a kid comes up to me and says i want to go to russia. i would say, why don't you just go homestead and take a cold shower and call me in the morning. i'm not exactly sure how you forgive that. >> i don't understand the context of checking with russia. when i look through the papadopoulos scenario, why was one of the first actions of this campaign, he believed he was there to establish a relationship with russia. i see no evidence that they wanted to be aggressive with no other country and sexes can't

recall someone saying maybe we want to set up a meeting with vladimir putin? i would think this would be something that would stick out in your mind and when you're going to testify repeatedly about this issue, you might want to go back through your records, being the attorney general, we tend to stick to evidence and go through records to find that. i can't understand why this comes back to haunt him. now, i realize, i try and give him the benefit of the doubt. this is a chaotic campaign. these principles go into lots of meetings with people they don't know. we have been through this three times on the senate floor. it keeps coming back, every time there is more to talk about from they keep forgetting, casey, this is a guy we would hold time and time again was flying a around the country with donald trump because he kept him calm. he kept him reasoned. he kept him ration rational. have you don jr. communicating with his father. we are looking at this time line bunched up with more and more

events regarding russia and it becomes less and less possible to accept the testimony of these trump administration officials saying they just didn't remember this or that about meetings with russians. >> that's possible and less plausible. the timeline filled in by media organizations. i mean between bob mueller and the washington post and the "new york times," there are suddenly a lot of things that seem to have come to the forefront of a lot of people's memories in this particular instance and i do think we were focusing in on papadopoulos a little bit. i have spoken to jd gordon sitting in between those two men. there are formal requests that were filed. gordon says he claims he stopped those requests and papadopoulos went over his head to other officials.

so the idea that they're downplaying papadopoulos in is up an aggressive way. i think the facts have born out t. reality is different. >> casey, i was debating somebody about this yesterday, that was saying, oh, he was just such, he was a low ranking official. well, at the time that request was made, donald trump was saying he was one of his two foreign policy advisers, which goes back to the fact that this was such a mom and pop operation without their mom that everybody knew everybody there. there was no campaign infrastructure at this point and donald trump told the washington post carter page and george papadopoulos were my two foreign policy advisers. >> they keep dismissing him too as a young foreign volunteer, how old was jared kushner? 35, lix? >> he was gentleman to solve

peace in the middle east. >> and still is. there is some real questions about that in my mind. don't forgive, too, sessions, what a fascinating moment if you are jeff sessions between what's going on, that initial the pushback that he gave i thought was remarkable considering by all accounts, he is somebody that wants to keep his job as attorney general. mitch mcconnell is in another year saying maybe you want to go back to that seat in alabama that uve indicated. the decision-making here from him i think is at very much at a significant pivot point. >> hey, mike, there also is for people that want justice to be served and want the mueller investigation to rock its course, it gets a little confusing at times. are you rooting for sessions to survive? he's not telling the truth. does it seem like he's telling the truth? but donald trump would love an excuse to get rid of jeff sessions. jeff sessions, actually, you said, it was noble yesterday,

also showed a great deal of character when he recuse himself, depoo it the fact donald trump had no respect for the law and wanted him to stay in there. >> no, there are two threads to this story playing out in front of our eyes, part of it played out yesterday. you alluded to one of the threads, the campaign was a total clown show. >> it was. >> for very few people, if any believe they are going to win right up and through including election day. that's the amusing part. >> they were using the campaign to set up future businesses. >> right and the russia deal. >> a money deal t. tragic aspect of that thread is that many people who participated in the cloup show who were total clowns are now a part of the government of the united states of america. that's the tragic part. yesterday we talked about the 36-year-old who you wouldn't hire to do, to present a house

closing is going to be a federal judge for life. >> a federal judge and this papadopoulos. both my brothers are in the foreign policy community. obviously my father. there is incred -- everyone is incredulous at the voids in the state department at this point. the people close to the president even as it started, sean spicer, hope hicks in her 20s, jared, ivanka that came from the fashion industry. >> they're all very nice. >> they're all very nice, if you meet them on the street, they're very nice people. do you want them running the country? you can say okay. really, no? i'm not saying anything mean. >> by the way, she's running around saying i'm going to fix middle east. >> but again, these are the people that the president is bringing into his most private meetings for his most private counsel for guidance. let's just be fair across the board, male or female the people in there are not up to it. not even close. they don't even come from any

type of government experience and they've done nothing but make this president worse. everyone was supposed to be moderating influences, not seeing it. >> let's separate the campaign staff that was brought on board to the family members, from general mattis. general mcmaster. kelly, obviously, a few people in there. >> the people that spend every minute of the day with him, the family members and very young and inexperienced or incredibly morally, i mean, sean spicer could not do his job. he could not tell the truth. >> campaign heads rely on george papadopoulos. who i told you i talked to his

college professor who said he was shocked a. campaign is relying on a state department that has a capable person up top in rex tillerson is having incredible difficulties finding staffing people. there is a staffing issue consistent through the campaign and administration tray they have yet to figure out they need to do differently. >> let's not pick on george papadopoulos. i'm curious, you have brought up jared kushner before. i have spoken with him a lot. i like jared. >> true. >> but any time he tried to explain the history of the middle east, he didn't want to hear it. any time you had other people coming in from the outside saying this is what happened in 1967 and this is how you are going to have to work jordan off of saudi arabia off of lebanon off of egypt, he didn't want to

hear it. he said, i'm tired of the talking. we don't need to read history books. here is a guy, how old is he, 34, 35? he's i'm sure he's great in real estate and everything else. but not so much. >> but the point is that this entire administration has shunned experts and have instead -- if you don't think, by the way, i have to talk to the camera here, if you don't think running washington, d.c. is harder than running a real estate company in new york city, you are out of your mind, you have no idea. why do you think presidents come and go and fail? because it's difficult. it's hard. you have to understand the system the way lbj understood the system. it was a lifetime of work for lyndon johnson, it's a lifetime of work for ronald reagan who was governor of the largest state for eight years and then

ran several times and what's president of the united states and for bill clinton, who was a democratic governor in the state of arkansas and was constantly having to compromise with conservative democrats and republicans, and be i the time he came to walk, he unstood what he had to do to make it work. but there has been this presumption by this crew of running a real estate firm in walk, we can run walk. no, voters for 2018 and 2020. all right. if you wouldn't hire a dentist that went to a good dental school when they were taking out a filling. don't elect people to office that don't know what they are doing you need people that understand how washington works. it's so complicated. it takes a long time to figure out how to run a large state let

alone run a country. they said all of these people that worked in real estate or the fashion industry, oh, we're smarter than everybody else. they have proven by not passing a single piece of legislation and humiliating america across the globe. look at the numbers. >> they got tax reform. >> and how much america is standing in every poll and suddenly having these rookies doesn't seem leak such a good idea anymore. we may actually when we're getting brain surgery, we may need somebody that is a brain surgeon instead of a lumberjack. >> if you are born into privilege and everything is handed to you, why learn if you can beat the system without learning, from their perspective, is, hey, i got the job. i didn't have as to waste this time like you silly fools did, going getting school certification and experience. that's now coming back to haunt them, because they have to do the work in this situation.

they actually have to make these sixes work out. so i think it's just now hitting them. it's a year later. i think they were surprised the first six months they got to job. the second six months how hard it is, the second six months they are figuring out where the exit door is. >> i don't think they expected it. it was their entitlement. >> there is a reason why ceos do so horribly in government. there is a reason why generals other than dwight icep hower do so terribly in government. they're used to following orders. nobody follows orders. the reason dwight eisenhower is so successful. he had to put up with everybody else's bs and quietly take church hymns orders and turn to the other generals and go, oh my god, what are we going to do

here? and ike had to put together the largest military operation i guess in world history and he was balancing egos. that's what this job is you have to be deferential to people with more power. >> a message for roy moore, get oust. senate republicans want nothing to do with the candidate. they are putting their money where mouth is. the latest on that and the latest robo-call that aims to poison the voting pool. >> bernie bernstein if you are watching. >> morning joe will be right back. our plan strengthened your retirement score. so, that goal you've been saving for, you can do it. we can do this? we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement

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. >> if he cares about the values and the people he claims to care about, he should step aside. >> if it's the choice between a democrat and roy moore, i'd choose roy moore.

>> what is your message for roy moore? >> get out. >> where is casey hunt when we need her. you wrote an innocent question and everything would have come pouring out of their mouths. >> i did it, i did it. >> that great. he never talks in that hallway. i try getting him all the time, the fact that he said get out. that's how everybody feels. >> people are losing patience with candidate roy moore ahead their calls for him to step aside. the rnc have cut ties and are scrapping his campaign. this was some of the reaction from the hill yesterday, yesterday attorney general jeff sessions says he believes roy moore's accusers, while the senate majority leader quoted jeff session's option. here's mitch mcconnell yesterday, using senator lisa murkowski's successful 2010 write-in bid in alaska as an

example. >> why didn't she win? she was totally well known and extremely popular and the name being most often discussed may not be available, but the alabamian who would you know fit that standard would be the attorney general, who was totally well known and extremely popular in alabama. >> yeah. which would also allow donald trump to find somebody and fire bob mueller. so. no. >> look at this, the political report now considers the race a tossup. a new poll monday shows moore ahead with a two-point margin of error. there seems to be tricks meant to discred at this time washington post's reporting on allegations involving roy moore and teenage girls. listen to this voicepail a pastor says he received yesterday.

>> this is incredible. c'mon, man. >> that is -- how'd they do that? >> this is insulting. >> bernie bernstein, i j you left school, i'm calming about a -- c'mon. >> was the juice ter going. >> i got a little stain from my matzi ball soup. >> it's ridiculous. >> it's so anti-semitic. so anti-semitic. >> so obvious. >> very good. so the "washington post.

>> it's absurd. >> the "washington post" says the robo-call is not real. they -- really, we're shocked? that was shocking in its own way in its stupidity. joining us from montgomery, alabama is msnbc vaughan hilliard. >> not his real name. >> did you make that up? it could be a wine or a fashion line or a reporter. vaughan, where does the race stand now? >> reporter: good morning, guy, yeah. down the road, roy moore is still campaigning. he was out yesterday in jackson,

alabama, a up to of 5,000 people at a baptist church. photo, this is in context of refuting right after he refuted the allegation, he said, quote, you young people will face the same battles no matter whether it's in schools, your jobs, your government, wherever you go if you take a stand, will you come under persecution. he's making it an us against the world campaign. i want to play you sound from montgomery here. this is somehow day seven. i which i could provide a sexier analysis of the trend line. i think these voices will give a perspective of where republicans are right now. doug jones or roy moore and why? >> i don't know. i wanted to vote for moore, but i'm not so sure any more. >> sometimes you want a leader you accept some problems that they have, i mean, you want a

leader who will lead you out, not necessarily be the best example of the first if line. >> the crowd that roy moore stands up for what he believes, but you know at this point it's hard to say what you do, you know. >> reporter: you guys, that second gentleman you heard from was at a table of 14 men. i went up to that table here and said who here is voting for doug jones? they were all defiant saying they were going to vote more moore. i want to bring that up, it's not dissimilar from what we are hearing from the gop apparatus in the state. outside ofever session, you have the likes of mo brooks, he said, quote, a united states senator from alabama is going to have a huge respect on national public policy issues on the votes cast on the senate floor will determine the future of the country. >> that is my primary focus. essentially they have something to go off here. there is little pushback from inside the republican party.

that's where we are down to, a defiant doug more and a democrat in this race. doug jones had multiple republican ads in it and say don't decency and integrity matter? another republican voting for doug jones, another only to appear in this state is joe biden. doug jones cancelled the fundraiser yesterday to focus more on alabama issues? vaughan, thank you so much, greatly appreciate it. mike, when you look at those voters and they're saying they're not sure what they're going to do, you go back to the 2016 campaign and we had so much 'people that were embarrassed to tell us that they were going to vote for donald trump regardless because they didn't want hillary clinton to be elected. here we are in the reddest of head states. you look at vaughan, nobody told

him. they said, oh, boy, well, i don't know, i'm not sure, the chance is good, i'm saying from my vast experience, if a voter won't tell you they will vote far and they're in a red state, they break red or blue if a blue state smr joe, the numbers in that poll, we can put that up again, no candidate in my memory has undergone such withering criticism and pointed criticism about factual things that occurred and he has a six-point lead. a six-point lead. >> a six-point lead, casey, vaughan said he couldn't find somebody a republican not financial to be voting for him and so i guess casey, the next question is, if he is elected. he has been talking to a lot of republicans up there and talking to republican staff are they

seriously considering not seating him if he is elected next month? >> i think they are still in the election part of this mitch mcconnell laid out yesterday exactly what he is doing. he said i takd to the president i talked to john kelly, mike pence, we are all trying to physical out what to do. they're waiting for president trump, which is why i think the sessions question is interesting, if president trump comes back, he just got back from his trip to asia and says something about what he thinks jeff sessions should do in the context of this race, i think that is potentially explosive. i think beyond that cory gardner called directly for them to eject him from the senate. >> but if he gets out, what happens? republicans saying, get out, get out, he's still on the ballot. people have voted absentee, right? >> getting out would be worst part for the republican party in some ways. >> right. does luther strange start the

process? he could step down, create a new have a kansas the governor would appoint somebody for that seat, that would trigger another special election if theory. there is still a lot behind the scenes there, i feel it's getting to a point where people feel we don't have great options when it comes to this particular election. so then what are they going to be forced to do if the voters in alabama send roy moore to the naat. it's likely they'd have to seat hi him. they tried to not seat someone in 2009 involved in the roy blagojevich scandal. >> he's an american he. >> reporter: he got sent to jail because he was trying to get health care in illinois. don't bring ploich up. >> sorry. aside. >> so the last time that the senate didn't seat somebody was

during the, after the civil war, some confederates, perhaps? >> i believe so. >> i'm making it up. >> reporter: but what the calculation is here and now is they could then potentially vote to eject him from the senate, it would take two-thirds vote, mitch mcconnell wouldn't answer that direct question yesterday. but i bought the to tell you, the atmosphere on this, i think, is really far and away, there are not any cracks in it anymore. republicans are rejecting this man completely and it's partly to do with the climate in which we are living as well. these accusations go well beyond the things we are talking about as sexual harassment spilled out into the open. we are talking about a minor child. >> that makes this story different for sure. capitol hill, itself, is crapling with this issue. there was an emotional hearing

yesterday on the house side where, you know, a republican member of congress related a story where she said she knew a staffer who had gone to the house of the member she worked for to drop off paperwork because he answered the door in a towel. he took off the towel and exposed himself to her. those are the kind of stories we haven't been hearing. it's a problem that's been rampant on capitol hill for a long time. i think the fact that it is happening at the same time as this roy moore story is putting difficulty on republicans. >> can i ask about that testimony? there were two members that supposedly did this, according to testimony yesterday, why didn't she reveal their names? >> so there's two instances of this, joe, there was a democrat that came forward and said i know of two sitting members, one democrat and one republican who have had allegations or review, then there was a republican member bar practice koymstock,

she told the story. she said she didn't know the name of the member in question because it was not told to her when this story was relayed the democrat, jackie spear telling these other stories said that, she told me in an interview, at least in one case the woman was subject to a non-disclosier agreement. if she was going to name the name of this congress person, that would be violating that agreement and potentially the law. and that's one of the problems that i think is going to be in this spotlight in the coming days the process if place right now on capitol hill requires women who want to settle to sign non-disclosure agreements that then prevent them from going to the house ethics committee. prevent these people from being na aimed in public. this is also part, joe, of the broader culture of people are terrified of saying things on capitol hill because this is all about who you know and quite frankly, the levers of power are controlled by men, there is a fear if you come forward and name somebody, you will be

blackballed, kicked out of politics the men will protect themselves, i have talked to a dozen plus women about experiences over the last week, obviously, talking to many of my friends, associates, we talk about this all the time behind the scenes. this is now a conversation that is starting to be had in public, but the fear among people who work in politics and the people who work on the hill is still incredibly high considering in other industries we are seeing people be much more willing to speak out. >> anybody that's worked on the hill, sam, have you worked on the hill? it's just tight, it's such cramped in. >> it's not just people that work in politics, casey, reporters, it's a mix of problems. >> this problem is rampant across every industry. we are seeing that now the hill is a tight coy system, it is very male dominated. >> and power is how things

happ happen. >> and power and hierarchy, we will see these stories come out again and again and again because they're exist. it was a difficult hearing to actually watch, because you get a sense this is just the tip of the iceberg. >> casey hunt, thank you very much for being on this morning, still ahead casey d.c. i should say. >> hold on, alex, c'mon. >> casey d.c., thank you very much. good to have you on. >> laser rock! >> oh, yeah. >> all right. >> morning zoo crew with casey d.c. >> we will wear the shirts. >> i want the shirts. >> i got the shirt. i'm waiting for friday to promote the sunday show. i think it will be a week from this friday sentence are you not here. donny's is very tight. >> oh my, donny. >> i got a tank. >> you got to make sure he's there on that friday. >> he wears the baby gap. >> i think he has to wear the

tank that she got for me. so i think i'll let him. >> still ahead on morning joe, president trump hats hundreds of nominees for judicial and executive branch positions and the spool one of the least diverse in years, like 200 years probably. but least one nominee has a unique hobby. >> oh, that's good, what does he like to do? >> he's a ghost buster. i believe we have some of his footage from home. he loves to hunt. . >> i think donald trump's 36-year-old judicial nominee that's not qualified. >> the one with the fire hose. we'll explain that straight ahead on morning joe.

receiving a not qualified rating from the american bar association, running a highly partisan blog and not disclosing his marriage to a white house lawyer. 36-year-old brett tally was also a member of -- >> he has this going for him. >> okay. he was a member of the tuscaloosa paranormal research group according to a senate judiciary committee questionnaire, which was obtained by "the daily beast." the group, according to its website, searches for the truth of the par anormal existence. >> toughest cases.

also authored many books on the subject. >> he has a cult following. we broke this story. he has a cult following in the literary world. it doesn't make him qualified to be a judge. let me preface that. >> does anything make him qualified to be a judge? anything at all? >> trump's federal judges have received not qualified ratings and also renewed attention of lack of diversity within the trump administration. >> just a little bit. >> involving race and gender. >> we want to level the playing field and are making steps toward that not. >> reverend al sharpton, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, joyce vance.

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how many african-americans touf on your senior staff? >> i do not have a senior staff member at this time that's an african-american. >> of all the u.s. attorneys that have been nominated or confirmed, how many have been african-american? >> one in alabama. >> out of all the special agents in charge of fbi bureaus around the country, how many are african-american? >> i do not know. >> oh, my lord. >> the attorney general on capitol hill when pressed on the growing concern regarding diversity or lack thereof in donald trump's administration. this photo of attorney general jeff sessions, welcoming the newest batch of u.s. attorneys. they're all essentially white men. of donald trump's 480 nominations for judicial and executive branch positions sent to the senate, 387 are men, roughly 81%, according to an analysis by the daily beast. diving deeper, just 21% of donald trump's nominees for

high-ranking cabinet position are women. only 19% of his judicial nominees are women. and just 6%, 3 out of 53, of donald trump's nomination for u.s. attorney are women. that's critical. >> and some of them are ghostbusters. >> because in the future -- and we'll be talking to joyce nance in a second. but people who fill key roles in future department of justice positions usually come from those ranks of being u.s. attorneys. so, we are literally having a generation of women -- >> paving the way for the future for women. >> african-americans, hispanics, people who are not white men to actually be shut out of this process even longer than donald

trump's time in the white house. >> let's bring into the conversation former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, joyce vance and the host of msnbc's politics nation and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. >> i want to go to joyce first. talk about that. talk about how critical it is to make sure you have a diverse pool of men and women of all different backgrounds, very diverse group, to be u.s. attorneys. talk about how future justice departments are filled from the ranks of former u.s. attorneys. >> this is a point i don't think we can put too much emphasis on. this whole idea that a generation of future leaders are groomed when you select u.s. attorneys and when those u.s. attorneys select their criminal chiefs, their civil chiefs, their apell ate chiefs. these people become the next

level of leadership in the justice department. in the obama administration and during the bush administration we saw great gains being made particularly as more women advanced into roles of leadership. now when we have a generation of u.s. attorneys who are largely white, largely male, we'll be impacting the future department for many years to come in terms of who really has the experience to be the next deputy attorney general, the next attorney general and who will fill these other senior roles. >> mika and i started tweeting this out last week because the numbers are so horrific. reverend al, the only thing more difficult than being a white woman getting a nomination from donald trump is being a black woman. because there are zero u.s. attorneys of the 53 that have been black women that have been nominated. >> zero as well as you saw when

congressman richmond questioned the attorney general, he doesn't even have african-americans on his senior staff. looking at the social landscape, you're in a time of the whole rise of women coming forward, the me too movement, showing a whole pattern of sexual harassment across the board in a pattern of civil rights marches and knee-ins. and the government showing no diversity to even have people that have those backgrounds that can understand that. women, african-americans. so it gives a whole real understanding to those of us that look at donald trump saying make america great again meaning that i'm going to exclude women, i'm going to exclude african-americans. when jeff sessions met with civil rights leaders, he didn't even have a black he could bring to the table to make us feel like or to pretend like he had some sensitivity. and you have to remember, joe,

this is following the first two black attorney generals in the history of the country. so, we have eric holder, the first black attorney general, loretta lynch, the first black female attorney general and we go all the way back down to no blacks even in the senior staff at the justice department. and women excluded, and no women nominated for u.s. attorney. >> it's not just there on the judicial side. you look at secretary of states. and you look at condi rice, madeleine albright, other women in republican and democratic administrations that ran the state department, ran u.s. foreign policy. there's absolutely nothing now. how remark wrabl that, you mokn, you go out and talk to women all the time, knowing their value. it looks like the only way, when it comes to government women can do anything is what they did in northern virginia, stand in the

rain and say okay, you aren't going to let women represent this country? then we're not going to let your people represent us. >> and they can do one other thing. and that's run and fill up washington. and that's going to happen. the resisting movement will turn into running and leading. it has to. we have to respond in some way. i'll say this. also, joyce vance, i'm curious. does anybody know -- we know one story of one of these picks for u.s. attorney. it is an absolute joke. >> federal judge. >> completely unqualified. of all these wooem white men we're looking at, are they qualified? i'm worried that it's bad that there's no balance, there's no diversity, but is something more nefarious going on? are these people taking the oath to trump? if you think i'm crazy asking that question, a lot of people have. sam stein has walked the plank for trump. >> i'm sorry if i'm interrupting

you. >> i want to go to joyce. >> we did a separate database about the nominations for specific executive agencies to see if they were conflicted. by conflicted we said did they lobby, take political donations regulated by that agency? of those 380 or so federal nominees, we found that 50%, 50% had some form of conflict. many of them, entire departments were handed over to private industry. >> private industry that was regulated by government. >> correct. in the department of agriculture you had representatives from poultry companies. in hhs it was pharmaceutical companies and so on. the question i would like to bring to joyce, when you have just one subset of minds being put in these positions, whether

it's in a cabinet or whether it's on the judicial branch, you end up lacking a diverse set of opinions that go into judicial re rulings. as you experience this, how does that affect just the day-to-day work basically? >> it really does affect it. people make better decisions about justice, the delivery of justice in our communities when they can take into account the broad views. not just diversity in terms of race or gender but also your socioeconomic status, geographic dispersity. these issues really matter in decision making. mika, to your point, i know some of the u.s. attorneys who have been nominated. they tend to be exceptionally fine people. i don't have that sustained concern that we've heard about some of the judicial appointments when it comes to the u.s. attorneys. what i think is more troubling is having identified this issue of the lack of inclusivity in

the first couple of traunchs of u.s. attorneys who were confirmed the swrus department didn't take any steps to remedy that. in essence, they doubled down, continued it appoint almost exclusively white men to these critical roles. and i think that's difficult to understand why they would do something like that when there are tons of qualified women, african-americans willing to take these jobs. it takes on the face of it something that is very deliberate. >> asking another special counsel to look into allegations relating to hillary clinton. here is an exchange between sessions and congressman jim jordan. >> what's it going to take to actually get a special counsel? >> a factual basis that meets standards of the appointment of a special counsel. >> and it sure looks like the

fbi was paying the author of that document. and it sure looks like a major political party was working with the federal government to then turn in opposition research document, national enquirer story into an intelligence document, take that to the fisa court so they could then get a warrant to spy on -- that's what i'm asking you. doesn't that warrant naming a second special counsel as 20 members of this committee wrote you 3 1/2 months ago, asking you to do? >> i would say looks like isn't enough basis to appoint a special counsel. >> okay. >> asked and answered. clint, he could not have been more dismissive of that attempt to basically puff as much smoke in the direction of this nonstory. it is a nonstory if you look at the cabinet agencies that had to

sign off on this in the obama administration, an administration run by people who didn't really have a lot of good feelings about bill clinton or hillary clinton. >> that's right. i love attorney general sessions face whenever he aengsed that question. he's turning to a republican saying you're wasting my time. i don't need this. it took that congressman several minutes to ask a yes or no question. we don't want the justice department to turn into a political weapon. we see families that govern from the very top that use the justice department as a political weapon against their opponents, future or past. we don't want that in our country. and i admire the attorney general for that. >> there have been two critical times over this first year during the trump administration where he stepped forward and acted as an american first.

that was one. if he continues to have that attitude and doesn't allow the president of the united states to use the justice department to prosecute political enemies. and the second, of course, was when he defied trmp and said i have to recuse myself. we're going to let somebody else decide what we do here. and rod rosenstein did the same thing. regardless of all the problems i've had with rod rosenstein when constitutional norms hung in the balance he did the right thing. let's give credit to where credit is due. those are massive decisions historians will look back on, hopefully, and say when called upon, people stepped up and did the right thing. >> chief correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker and senior writer at politico and co-kaufr of "the playbook, jake sherman. >> peter baker, a lot to sort

through. we have just put a halo over jeff sessions head. now let's knock it off. >> because he doesn't remember much. >> it is really hard to believe that the attorney general could have forgotten a conversation with george -- wait. could he have forgotten? just in the chaos of the campaign. >> no. it was a small held campaign. washington post editorial board and jeff sessions says he forgot that one of those two people that donald trump named as the head of his foreign policy team said that he wanted to go to russia to set up a meeting with putin. >> first of all, your point earlier about his response to jim jordan really points out an interesting dynamic with jeff sessions in washington. you don't see this every day. you have a major figure with two competing narratives going on.

right? one is the guy who seems to be forgetting or perhaps not fully answering questions about his campaign's conduct with russia. the other is the one who is standing up to a president who wants to influence an agency that typically is not influenced by the president when it comes to individual prosecutions like this. these two competing narratives are fascinating to see. interesting to see how long that will persist. he's thinking about appointing special counsel. he also told people he's going to leave that recommendation to the career -- at least the senior prosecutors. we don't know who they are. suggesting he's looking for someone to tell him there may not be something there and he can use that as an excuse not to do it. in terms of forgetting, your point on that, i spent a lot of time in washington, you spent a lot of time in washington. it's not surprising. i've done books where i try to go back and get people to remember but to forget this many

things i think is troubling for many people. he is forgetting everything that seems to be-to-matter on this particular subject, which is such interest to congress and the country. >> i had somebody ask me yesterday in the debate, what turned out to be a debate said, wait, wait. you were in congress. you've been in the public eye 0 20, 25 years. you go into crowds. people are pulling at you. it's easy to forget. i said yeah, it's ease toy forget the thousands and thousands of people. it's ease toy forget. but if somebody says that they want to set up a meeting between vladimir putin and my boss, i don't forget that. >> and also it was a critical issue during the campaign, especially given the rnc platform and various -- >> jake, let me stop you right there. >> that's it. >> you just hit on such an important point. i'm always telling people to go back to look what they were

saying at the time. you really just underlined it. we forget, this was a critical issue during the campaign. so if jeff sessions is asked that question, bells are ringing. go ahead. i'm sorry. you were so brilliant, we had to stop. >> and underline it. >> i've never been so brilliant in three words. it was a critical issue. donald trump during the campaign asked the russians to retrieve hillary clinton's e-mails. i want to make another point on jeff sessions. we saw jim jordan, the leader of the fiery right. he and mark meadows are the two most important conservatives in the house. and you're beginning to see the shine come off of jeff sessions in an important way for conservatives. you could see how this plays out. these are the same people that went after lois lerner, loretta

lynch, eric holder. i'm not saying that jeff sessions is of the same ilk but they are really fiery about the special counsel. having covered these guys for a long time they tend to get their teeth into one issue. when they don't get what they want they keep sinking the teeth deeper, keep pulling at that little string and i'm beginning to think that that's what you're seeing here. >> so, peter, russia on one hand. hillary clinton's e-mails and uranium on the other hand. what's the president's temperature? is he in fever pitch about getting this done? >> he just got back from asia late last night. we've not seen him since he was here in washington. we forgot how much has happened since he's been gone. you're right. etches made a big point of this the last three, four months about why aren't the democrats being prosecuted?

why is my justice department not doing this? they should be doing what's right and proper. presidents rarely say so out loud because it crosses every line we think had been established after watergate about separating law and politics in this way. there are people out there that say there's nothing wrong with that and as head of the judicial branch presidents can direct the justice department. it is very unseemly. >> joyce vance and reverend al sharpton on roy moore in alabama. joyce, go. >> it certainly has been an interesting week in alabama politics. this is a former chief justice of the supreme court. twice he has been removed from

office. both times it was just for an outrageous failure to follow the order of a federal court. roy moore has his own version of the law. what no one really saw coming were these allegations that roy moore was a child molester. we now have two very credible women, the details of their stories really have been -- >> you brought up a good point. he was already just an abominable failure on many levels. i'm curious what you make of this sort of known thing about roy moore never coming out before. >> i saw somebody say this morning this is one of those things that everybody knew about but that you don't talk about. and, mika, we've seen so much of that. we're having this cultural moment where women are finally coming forward. in gadsden, alabama, in 1980s, high school girls didn't come forward. they didn't talk about a

powerful district attorney, later a judge. you can see how this happened. and i think it's good that women are now able to come forward. sad that someone like this served in alabama for so many years. >> for so long in power. reverend al? >> i think it's interesting that we are looking at a man that defied the courts to try to keep the ten commandments in the courthouse and now he's being accused of pedophilia. we're finding out his hometown mall banned him from coming there, he was such of the kind of person that would be chasing women in the hometown mall. this is the guy that wanted to uphold the ten commandments. he needed to read them. and i think what is most striking to me is the silence of the evangelicals, the silence of the conservative christian. >> it continues.

>> that have stood by him. and where are we at in terms of -- >> by the way, these are the same evangelicals that would storm my town hall meetings in the 1990s and say those democrats, they know what bill clinton does to women. they have no shame. they're going straight to hell because power is more important to them than anything else. i heard it a million times if i heard it once. let's fast forward to 2017. they're doing the same thing they attacked democrats for doing in the '90s. >> a man is innocent proven guilty. when you have a pattern there, that is something you can't ignore. when you are claiming moral leadership and you anoint somebody, you lay hands on them and act as though there's something divine there and then this comes out and you say nothing, like you said nothing around the tapes with donald

trump, where is the moral did zblsh and president bill clinton. >> it wasn't even consensual and weren't even adults. >> to that point -- >> we could really talk about -- >> morality is wrong on either side. >> and young women being taken advantage of. >> to that point, moore appeared la of the night at an event and he drew an incredible amount of applause from the crowd there. not unexpectedly. they showed up because he as their fans. ten times he defied court order not allowing for the the implementation of the gay marriage resolution. they're comfortable enough with accusations of child molestation to support this guy but forcefully opposed to the concept of a gay couple getting married. i don't understand. maybe it's because i'm bernie bernstein jew over here.

>> you still have people trying to explain away bill clinton, why liberals gave him a pass in the 1990s. it was a witch hunt. newt gingrich was going after him. jerry falwell was going after him. i still see people trying to defend bill clinton and their lack of action there. you go down to alabama right now. you've got "the washington post," fake news. you've got mitch mcconnell, public enpy number one. this is him going after him. it's the liberal democrats going after him, bernie bernstein going after him. is this the end of the movie about the culture wars that started back in the 1960s? is this where it finally ends,

where a guy accused of being a child molester is embraced by evangelicals because they hate the other side so much? >> it's a stunning dissonance basically. i was on the hill yesterday and many republicans agreed with the idea that they would rather have a democrat for two years, a democr democrat, by the way, who will vote with republicans most of the time because it's a conservative state and he's a conservative democrat, than this guy. a massive, massive split even further with bannon's wing of the party and the establishment wing of the party. on that bernie bernstein thing, i don't think i've heard the end of this. this is anti-semitism. as a jew and as a reporter, like sam, i was -- i had trouble

thinking what i wanted to say in playbook so i said nothing but this is disgusting. >> it's awful. >> we need to get to the bottom of this. it's anti-semitism on the national political stage and it's disgusting. >> peter baker, a poll that came out yesterday has roy moore up by six points after enduring what i think most of us would think are perhaps four or five of the worse days any candidate of the senate has endured for some time. a group of republicans around the table not one of them said they were going to vote for the democrat. >> the bill clinton comparison, people revert to their corners. itf it's our guy, it must be an illegitimate attack. it must be gined up politically,

motivated by people trying to get our side. and i would rather have our side which believes in my position on x issue or y issue than the other guy. and it's striking how we have a hard time as a country evaluating these allegations outside a partisan realm. everything has to be seen through that lens rather than what are the facts, what does this say about a person's character? what does this say about a person who wants to help to lead our country? >> final thoughts, reverend al sharpton? >> we all go to our corners and we've all been guilty of that. there has to be a limit. there has to be boundaries. when you have people distorting the birth of jesus, i mean, they dragged mary and joseph into this to say, to justify him. that's blasphemous. there have to be boundaries because our children are watching. we can't have the moral meter run completely off the scale. >> peter baker, joyce vance.

>> joyce, good luck in alabama. roll tide. >> thanks. >> alabama or auburn in the iron bowl? >> alabama. >> roll tide. >> roll tide. >> the tide rolls. before we go to break we want to circle back to jeff sessions' brushback of house republicans calling for a special counsel probe into the clinton state department. president trump and his allies have been hammering the clinton state department for months, calling the uranium one deal, quote, watergate, modern age. and it's been covered virtually wall to wall on fox news. >> new calls from congress this morning for special counsel to look into the controversial uranium one deal and its ties to the clinton foundation donations. >> look at them laughing. >> former president, hillary clinton, the obama administration are now, now clearly in focus in what appears to be a quid pro quo deal that gave russia ownership of a fifth

of u.s. uranium. >> they lied to us. they said there was nothing to worry about, that the sale of 20% of america's uranium to our enemy, russia, wasn't really a problem. >> how would hillary clinton not know if a russian company was getting 20% of our uranium supply? what was she doing? >> america's national security was severely compromised here. and we had a chance to stop it. and not did we not stop it they made money on it. i don't know any other way to describe this except they sold out our security. >> but yesterday one of fox's leading journalists, shepp smith, took on the allegations and, by extension, his own network. >> uranium one is the name of a south africa based mining company. back in 2007, it merged with eurasia energy based in canada. in 2010, the mining arm of the russian nuclear agency bought

controlling interest in the company. among other places that mining company had operations in wyoming that amounted to what the nrc said was, at the time, about 20% of uranium production capacity in the u.s. here is the accusation. nine people involved in the deal made donations to the clinton foundation totaling more than $140 million. in exchange, secretary of state clinton approved the sale to the russians, a quid pro quo. the accusation first made by peter schweitzer, senior editor at large of the website breitbart in his 2015 book "clinton cash." the next year, candidate trump cited it as an example. >> hillary clinton's state department approved the transfer of 20% of america's uranium holdings to russia while nine

investors in the deal funneled $145 million to the clinton foundation. >> that statement is inaccurate in a number of ways. first, the clinton state department had no power to veto or approve that transaction. it could do neither. here is how it does work. by law, when a foreign company wants to buy anything with potential national security agencies, a committee has to approve it, the committee on foreign investment in the united states. the nine department heads all approved the sale of uranium one. it was unanimous. we don't know definitively whether secretary clinton participated at all directly. further neither secretary clinton nor the committee as a whole could stop any deal of this kind. the committee members evaluate a sale of anything potentially related to national security. by law, if one member objects,

the president and only the president can veto such a transaction. no committee member of the nine objected. the nuclear regulatory commission approved the sale november 24th, 2010, and doing so stated that no uranium produced may be exported. where does the uranium go? eia reports unless special permission is granted by government agency, uranium one sells the uranium it mines in the united states to civilian power reactors in the united states. regarding the donations to the clinton foundation most of those donations were from one man, the founder of the company in canada. he gave $131 million to the clinton foundation but sold his stake in the company back in 2007. that's three years before the uranium russia deal and a year

and a half before hillary clinton became secretary of state. if true, the donation to the clinton foundation from uranium one investors drops to $4 million. the accusation is predicated on the charge that secretary clinton approved the sale. she did not. a committee of nine evaluated the sale. the president approved the sale. regulatory commission had to offer permits and none of the uranium was exported for use by the u.s. to russia. >> boom. check mate. >> you just want to applaud. that's a guy doing his job. you just want to applaud. >> love shepp. >> do other people who spoke out so vehementally on this do a little research or just ignore this because they're embarrassed? >> we'll see. >> do you think jim jordan is embarrassed without his coat.

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we're optimistic that inserting the individual mandate repeal would be help fful, and that's obviously the view of the senate finance committee republicans as well. >> health care is back. that was senate majority leader announcing a plan to include a repeal of the individual mandate to help pay for the senate tax reform bill. it comes just a day after president trump called for the move. senate intelligence and appropriations committees, republican senator james langford of oklahoma. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> glad to be with you. good morning. >> is this going to make it more difficult to get this passed now with the health care element? >> i don't think it will, actually. have you pretty strong agreement among republicans that we don't like the individual mandate. the reason is that it's a tax

put directly on people that can afford it the least. in my state in oklahoma, 81% of the people who pay the individual mandate tax make less than $50,000 a year. this was a tax that intended to push people to buy insurance but it's the people that can afford it the least. >> sam stein? >> two questions actually on the bill. one, as i understand it, the corporate tax cuts in the senate bill will be permanent. >> that's correct. >> but the individual tax cuts will expire after ten years for purposes of satisfying procedural elements that require that you can't have it past ten years. why should corporate tax cuts be permanent but individual tax cuts lapse after ten years? >> very similar to what happened in 2001. in 2011 there was a renewal of

that tax. in 2001 congress did the same thing, through reconciliation. those rates were all extended in 2011 then for the individual. >> you imagine these individual rates will be extended after ten years? >> i would hope that they would, actually. those should stay very consistent. >> which brings to my second question. you warned against concerns about the debt and deficit as recently as your "meet the press" appearance. if the corporate rates remain reduced permanently, how does that satisfy your concerns about rising tee ining debt and defic the ten-year window they'll continue for as far as the eye can see? >> not as recently as "meet the press" but as recently as yesterday i brought this up with my colleagues. it's extremely important we focus in on this. ten years from now we'll have a different look of what's happening and where we are with economic growth, evaluate it and make the decision at that time.

you can't guess what the tax rate is going to be in a couple of years. if you do, you pull back and don't invest. that means jobs don't grow, you don't have growth in the economy and people don't have higher wages. we have to create some kind of currency. we'll evaluate the economy ten years from now. whoever is at the house and the senate at that point and have to evaluate it. we have to have consistent spending or we'll never get on top of the debt and deficit. >> mike? >> repeal of the individual mandate, and the salt aspect, state and local tax revenues, what's the result of that within the senate bill? >> state and local tacks in the senate bill are not agreed to at all. we set those completely aside. the house actually took the state and local tax and said we're not going to agree to state income tax, local taxes but will allow the property tax to be in there. it will be a negotiating point

between the house and senate during the conference committee. would it be possible that it gets included back in that during negotiations? yes, it's entirely possible. we want to be able to set this out as a parameter and be able to -- as far as the politics or economics of the individual mandate it's a little bit of both actually. clearly people around the country that are paying this fine that make less than $50,000 each year, it's economics for them personally. there is a political aspect, as there is with everything in this town, to say we're making progress on the parts that's most toxic to individuals. this does remove the fine for people who can't afford it. >> the estimates are because you will have fewer healthy people in these exchanges because they're not compelled to buy insurance by the mandate that they'll be stuck with sicker

people and insurers will have to raise premiums, estimated by 10%. are you comfortable with a bill that would facilitate a jacking up of premiums by 10% in order to have a permanent corporate tax cut? >> i am looking at all the aspects of it. those estimates of people saying if you don't have the mandate people aren't going to buy the product. people that are getting the subsidies are on the product. they're all receiving that. people that can't afford it, they don't want to also pay the fine. you have to make a decision for both individuals. are we going to talk about for the government as a whole or talk about those individuals that are harmed by this. 81% of people that pay this fine in my state make less than $50,000. they cannot afford the insurance and they can also not afford the fine. they're looking for some way to get insurance and have it, not just have a fine and still have no insurance. >> senator, before you go, we would love to hear your views on the situation with roy moore, especially as new information seems to be developing by the hour. >> right.

obviously, incredibly sad for those girls that were affected during that time period, their families and the nation. people of alabama are having to make a decision on someone who had immoral behavior or someone they don't like their politics on. >> should he step out of the race? >> i do believe that he should, actually, and should give the people of alabama a better choice to be able to go through this next process. i am pleased to be able to see that the nation, though, is talking about moral issues and trying to hold leaders to a higher account. that's a positive thing for our nation. i think that should continue, whether that's in hollywood with all the harassment being exposed now, capitol hill. >> media. >> media, anywhere it may be. if americans hold each other to a higher standard that is helpful to us long term. painful in the process of going through it, but helpful long term. we want to set a higher standards for our kid. >> couldn't agree with you more. hoping this is a transformational moment. senator james langford, thank

you very much. >> thank you. earlier yesterday we previewed that day's hearing on the president's authority to use nuclear weapons. it came as lawmakers, including foreign relations chair bob corker expressed concerns about president trump's ability to launch an unprovoekted attack with little to know oversight. >> we are concerned that the president of the united states is so unstable, so volatile, has a decision making process that he might order a nuclear weapons strike that is wildly out of step with u.s. national security interests. >> when asked if yesterday's hearing was a rebuke on trump, corker, who once warned the president could lead the u.s. on a path to world war iii said it was not. we'll keep our eyes on capitol hill as that story unfolds. [ keyboard clacking ]

[ click ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ clacking continues ] good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours.

you know, mika, i like people who get skieted about what they do, really throw themselves into their job.

future governor of -- >> i think when he comes here he's going to like -- and click his heels. >> right there. i want to see that. >> the heel click this time is the governor-elect of new jersey as excited today as he was on election night? he joins us next.

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well, this is so exciting. >> this is so exciting. >> he did do the leap that you just missed it. >> joining us now, phil murphy, first time on "morning joe," welcome to the show and congratulations. >> thank you very much, i am welcomed to be here. >> you and barnacle have been talking about boston. >> we have them. i was a big fan of mike's. >> you are a mets fan now. >> exactly. >> i have no comment. >> we'll go to a couple of games and it will be okay.

there is a very telling wall street journal editorial a few days ago talking about the flight of capitol from states that have had theirs passed up. illinois and connecticut, which is bleeding capitol everyday. new york and new jersey, what can you do that chris christie and former governors did not do to bring down that tax rate so you will get more people and more business coming into new jersey? >> the big story of our election anding goi going forward is the economy. we said the whole time on the campaign trail, we need a stronger, fairer economy that works for every new jersey family. underneath that it means we have not grown and profound ply unfa and when it works, it works for very few.

>> how do you get new jersey to grow? >> you got to get back to basics. the two big one is innovation and infrastructure economy. the first case that you can make an argument that we were still silicon valley before it was silicon economy. a lot of that edge is gone. we have stopped investing into k-12 and higher infrastructure and etc. >> and because the taxes are too high and energy cost is too high? >> as a democrat and a prerogatiprogres progressi progressive, are you going to have the courage to go to other democrats and say hey, we are not going to attract other good jobs we want to attract unless we make our business environment more increase incentives for others. >> i look at where we have lost

that economy. when those firms have left new jersey, where have they gone to? massachusetts has a booming innovation economy, they are cleaning their clock and they are as expensive and if not more expensive. >> they used to be. i don't think they are anymore. i think massachusetts, based on a lot of metrics. it is expensive to do business and live anywhere in the country. the fact the matter is, they built the economic ecosystem and folks, you know what? i pay a premium to be here and i get funded k-12, best hired education in the world and great location and infrastructure and communities and millennials want to live in. new jersey got dealt that same hand. >> is there any way and again i am not just a singularly focused on tax cutcuts, i am against th tax cuts that washington had in

dc. i am not playing republican here but i will ask one more time, do you think taxes need to be cut in new jersey so people who are making decisions, do i live in new jersey or new york or connecticut. wait a second, jersey is an easy choice. >> you make a fair point. this methodology comes out of washington is unacceptable. the question is specifically is can we deliver real property tax relief for the middle class in new jersey? yes. that starts with not just growing the economy, with under funded public education in the christie's years by over $9 billion. anybody watching pull out your property tax in new jersey on average of 53% of your bill of public education. that's where we can deliver real relief in addition to growing economy. >> if you are sitting out there

in new jersey today, the most important thing to you other than your job, maybe, certainly more important than your job are your children. what can you do differently being done today for k-12 kids. >> new jersey leads the nation per capita and exporting high school seniors and lead the nation if that's not enough. i would like to keep a few of them move. the big move is fully fund public education. new jersey had a landmark school funding formula viewed as a model and blessed by our state of the supreme court, i think the year 2008, the magic to the formula was bomttoms up. it asks of demographic of your kids. what's your household looks like and do you have special education need and etcetera, it built that up to a formula that

all sides, you know, that can work. it is been under funded over the past and by $9 billion. that's the biggest move we can make. we'll be watching and great to have you join in the conversation, thank you very much for being on. >> come back. >> i would like to leap back. >> leap back. >> we expect it. >> we'll talk about the red sox. >> sorry. >> the phillies. >> chaos theory, top official in the trump campaign says there is too much confusion for them to have colluded with russia. plus, jeff sessions shuts do wna fellow republican into investigating in the republicans. >> there is also this. i don't recall that, i do not recall such a conversation. i don't recall ever being made aware of that before. >> in your testimony today, i have stated i don't recall at least 20 times, is that fair to say? >> i have no idea.

>> what's your name, joe? >> i don't recall. >> okay, what will it take to jog jeff session's memory. on that meeting he attended with george papadopoulos, we'll ask the question, "morning joe" will be right back. t now... i really want to know how your coffee is. it's... sfx: (balloon squeals) hahahaha, i had a 2nd balloon goodbye! oof, that milk in your coffee was messing with you, wasn't it? yeah. happens to more people than you think. try lactaid, it's real milk, without that annoying lactose. mmm. good right? yeah. lactaid. it's the milk that doesn't mess with you. at bp's cooper river plant, employees take safety personally - down to each piece of equipment, so they can protect their teammates and the surrounding wetlands, too. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.

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everyday from day one. we were not very effective group, really. >> here is the thing, you don't have to be a successful criminal to be a criminal, you can be a criminal. >> good morning, it is november 15th, welcome to "morning joe." >> actually in light of that, it is very accurate. it was a very chaotic campaign. it is so funny everybody looks back at oh, this and that. no, it was a mom and pop operation, there was absolutely chaos. when people say oh, nobody knew who populoapadopoulos was becau he's a low ranking person. no, it is a general store. donald trump said they were his top people. all the clips of steve bannon

said and the attorney general says. nobody thought donald trump was going to win including donald trump. sometimes we rewrite things and look back at there are some grand strategy. >> what america stumbled into. are we saying the same thing? >> veteran calmness and ou our -- are we saying the same thing? >> we better be. >> sam stein. >> with you are? >> sam, what's the name of the park? >> nathan's -- >> not since i have left. >> what do they do at nathan's park? >> they smoke weed. >> special agent clint walsh. >> yeah, i am going to tell my daughter to come home now and

nbc capitol news and host of msnbc, kasie hunt. it is a kbragreat way to wake u guys. >> did you enjoy your time at dartmouth? >> is that a rhetorical question? >> it is always great up there. >> yeah t ama, it is amazing an best school ever. >> i am kind of one of those parents looking at every excuse to visit. >> got go for breakfast and dirt cowboy. >> the best one in new hampshire for sure at least. [ laughter [ laughter ] >> all right, enough about nathan's park. >> garden. >> it turns into a garden, does it? >> okay, lets start with the testimony on capitol hill. featuring jeff sessions facing

questions of the trump campaign and alleged ties for russia. >> we'll get to what he does. >> was it future casascinating stepped up yesterday and did what he might do and be apart of the justice department that pushes back on the president trying to influence. >> well, that was the notable exchange of the hearing. sessions squared off with members of the house who are asking h i am to appoint another special council to look into allegations relating to hillary clinton. here is an exchange between session and congressman jim jordan. >> what is it going to take to get a special counsel. >> it will take a factual basis, meeting a stance of an appointment of a special counsel. >> it looks like the fbi was paying the author of that document and it sure looks like a major political party was working with the federal

government to turn into opposition research documents that quotes into a nasty story and that i caakes that to the a court. i am asking you, does that warrant in addition to all things that we know of james comey in 2016, does that warrant aiming a second special counsel as 20 members of this here is asking tow do. >> it looks like but not based to appointing a special counsel. >> it is kind of like what chuck roseburg said yesterday. there is a lot of women in the justice department and they have been there for a long time and they see political type come and go. jeff sessions, we are going to criticize him in a minute for forgetting and over looking

another russian meeting. at the same time as i pointed out yesterday, when america and when the republic needed jeff sessions to stand up and recuse himself so justice may have a chance to be blind, he did it. >> yes, he's done it twice. he's got a president that's bullying i am through twitter, which is not the best way to communicate with your staff. he's being pushed and prided and now the guys on the hill who are pushing against him and he's done the right thing. he did the right thing by recusing himself and pushed back yesterday. if the attorney general mandate, he's taken an aggressive stand on crime. the opioid crisis, that's taken away on what he wants to achieve. i thought he did a good job with that. alex alex, mik and i were talking about on the show. we can talk about roy moore and the polls and the calling and

bernie bernstein or whatever and we could have talked about sessions forgetting of papadopoulos meeting. >> what's the most important thing here? >> we are talking about it now. >> right. we all said it at the same time, we had an attorney general stepped up and did not look like he was not going to allow our president, our republicans in congress turn this justice department in to some device for its taran cle. >> we'll get to his memory loss. >> yeah. >> this is an attempt, of the president of the united states and ally, jim jordan, to turn

justice department to just a political property of the president to inflict politics in the justice department which would affect the moral of the justice department. >> it will shatter constitutional norms. yeah, that's why we are starting with this because if he listens donald trump. >> this would shatter constitution norms and it would be chilling. >> this thing is all over, a canadian company purchased by the russians and the purchase as it involves the united states was approved by a committee that represented nine different federal agencies of the government, that's some conspiracy that you hold together. nine different agencies. >> president trump and his allies have been hammering the clinton's state department for month calling the ukrainian one deal gate watergate. it was covered wall to wall on

fox news in their own special way. one of fox's leading journalists, seth smith, taking on the president, calling it in kak rate. inaccurate. >> everyone so the accusation is predicated on the charge that secretary clinton aprovered to sale. . she did not. the president approved the sale. the regulatory commission had to offer permits and none of the uranium was exported for use by the u.s. to russia. that's your uranium one. >> incredible. >> this entire conspiracy. and the clown show. >> again, you had all these agencies that had to sign off on it. it was not hillary clinton

saying give me money, i am going to take care of this. >> there were nine entities and i understand she had a proxy sign off on it. it is difficult to see how you can orchestrate the conspiracy. there are a lot of things to criticize. >> by the way, this was barack obama's administration, an administration that in many quarters had a hostility towards hillary clinton. in fact, a lot of people very close to the clinton as we all know had a hostility towards the clinton. so it was not an inside game for anybody that knows that relationship. it is silly that we are trying to debunk it because it is been debunk it so many times. for whatever you think about jeff sessions, the ability for you to say you know we are not

going to devote researches or time and energy or hint that, it is noble. and reminding a little bit of the moment where obama came in. this is different context. i kept on recalling and obama coming in and it is 2009. there is in intense pressure. now, that's something that's a legitimate case to me that they should investigate. i need to look forward and not backward, we cannot bare the idea of having this investigation so soon in my administration and he moved forward. i kept on thinking about that yesterday as jeff sessions talking about clinton. >> jeff sessions said he did note remember the meeting where a trump campaign adviser pitched a sit down between donald trump and vladimir putin. in retrospect, he does remember at least parts of it. noti

notably the part of collusion. first, bill karen with a check of our forecast. >> lets start with the northeast. thankfully, it will warm enough when the rain moving in. there is no rain and snow to deal with. it is a rainy morning, wisconsin and michigan. and memphis, you could have had a straight shower. this is a cold front and the rain is ahead of it. as we fast forward and pushing it into the ohio valley today. ending in detroit and cincinnati. as we head into the over night hour, it moves to pennsylvania and new york state. new york city is going to have some rain to deal with and some areas in albany new york. notice a little bit of snow. that's up in the ski resort. that's about it. by 5:00 p.m. on thursday, we are watching that rain exiting east.

a lot of travel delays, specific northwest and sections of california. new york city, off to a cold, chilly start. tl rain, this time, tomorrow morning. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. ♪ whoooo.

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welcome back to "morning joe," lets pick up that conversation on jeff sessions yesterday. here is what he said last month. >> you don't believe that sergei from the trump campaign had kmoun kap communication with the russians, is that what you are saying? >> i did not and i am not aware of anyone else that it did. >> it reveals that george papadopoulos met with some

russians and sat at the table with jeff sessions and trump. yesterday's testimony, sessions told lawmakers, he at first had no recollection of that march 2016 meeting with papadopoulos, there he is until he saw news reports about it. >> i would like to address the false charges made about my previous testimony. my answer have not changed, i have always told the truth and i have answered every question as i understood them to the best of my recollection and as i will continue to do today. >> i do now recall that the march 2016 meeting at the trump's hotel that mr. papadopoulos attended but i have no clear recollection of the detail of what he said at that meeting. i believe that i wanted to make clear to him that he was not

authorized to represent the campaign with the russians government or any other foreign government for that matter. i did not recall this event which occurred 18 months before my testimony of a few weeks ago. >> clint, if i am investigating or i am on a presidential campaign and a kid comes up to me and -- i would say why don't you just go home and take a cold shower and call me in the morning. i am not exactly sure how you forget that. >> i don't understand the whole context of connecting with russia. when i looked into the papadopoulosscenario, he blo believed he was there to establish relationships with russia. sessions cannot recall someone saying maybe we want to set up a

meeting with vladimir putin. i would think this is something that stick out in your mind and when you go to the repeatedly about this issue, you may want to go back to records being the attorney general we tend to stick to evidence and go through records. i cannot understand why this comes back to haunt him. i realize and i try to give him the benefit of the doubt. this is a chaos campaign and these principles going through a lot of meetings with people they don't know. we have been through this three times and it keeps oncoming back and every time there is more to talk about. kasey, this w kasie hunt, this was a guy that we have been told many times again was flying around the country with donald trump because he kept him calm and rational. you have don jr. communicating with his father, we are looking at time line that's bunched up and more and more events

regarding russia and it becomes less and less possible to accept the the system of these trump administration officials saying they did not remember this or that about meetings with russians. >> less possible and less plausible, right? the time line that has been filled in by media organizations, i mean between bob mueller and the washington post and new york times, there are suddenly a lot of things that seem to come to the forefront of a lot of people's memories in this particular instance. i do think we were focusing on papadopoulos a little bit. i have spoken to jd gordon and there were formal requests were filed. gordon says he claims to stop the request and papadopoulos went over his head to other officials. they're down playing

papadopoulos in an aggressive way. the facts have since born out that the reality is a little different. >> kasie, i was debating somebody about this yesterday there was saying oh, he was a low ranking official, at the time that request was made, donald trump w, was saying he's one of his two foreign policy advisers. this was such a mom and pop operation without the mom that everybody knew everybody there. there was no campaign infrastructure at this point. donald trump told the washington post, carter page and george papadopoulos already my two foreign advisers. >> they keep on dismising him as a young foreign policy, how old was jared kushner during the campaign? >> he was going to peace in the

middle east. >> and still is. there is some questions in my mind. sessions, what a fascinating moment if you are jeff sessions between what's going on and the push back that he gave, i thought it was remarkable. he's somebody that wants to keep his job as an attorney general. mitch mcconnell, hey, maybe you want to go back to that senate seat in alabama that you vacated. the decision making here from him is at a significant pivot point. >> coming up on "morning joe," roy moore have lost the public backing of senate republicans and now he's losing their money, too. we'll get the latest from the sena senator from alabama next on "morning joe."

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if he cares about the values and people that he claims to care about then he should step aside. >> your message for roy moore, senator? >> get out. >> where is kasie hunt when we

need her? you would have asked an innocent question and everything would come pouring out of their mouth. >> he never talks. i tried to get him going into that door all the time and he just stopped and said "get out." >> republicans are losing pinin patien patiepay patience for roy moore to step aside. these were some reaction fs fro republicans. >> here is mitch mcconnell yesterday using senator lis seo

>> she was well known and totally popular. the name most often being discussed may not be available. the alabama fitting the attorney general and totally well known. >> yeah, which would also allow donald trump to fire and find somebody to fire bob mueller, so no, lets move on. >> look at this, new poll taken on monday showing moore ahead by six points. there seems to be some dirty tricks happening in alabama. the washington post reporting on allegations involving roy moore of a teenage girl. listen to this voice mall. >> hi, this is bernie bernstein, i am a reporter at the washington post calling to find

out if anyone at this address is a female between the ages of 54 to 57 years old willing to make damaging remarks about candidate roy moore for reward of $5,000 and $7,000. >> come on, man, that's cute. >> it is insulting. [ laughter ] >> this is bernstein, i just left school and i am calling about a star. excuse me. [ laughter ] >> oh, i got a little stain on my matzo ball soup. >> it is ridiculous. >> it is so obvious. [ laughter ] >> it is absurd.

>> oh my god. [ laughter ] >> the washington post says the robo call is not real. marty barron says quote, "the call's description of our reporting methods bears no relationship to reality, we are shocked and appalled that anyone would stoop to this level to discredit." >> joining us now is msnbc's vonn hillier, did you make it up? >> vonn, where does the race stand now? >> reporter: good morning guys, washingt down the road, roy moore was still campaigning. he was at a revival at a baptist

church. i want to do this quote to set up what we are talking about here. quote, "this is in context of refuting." "you young people will face the same battle whether it is in school or jobs or government and where ever you go, uyou are goig to take a stand." essentially, he's making it is u.s. against the world campaign. this is day seven and we have been talking to people on the ground. i wish i can provide a sexual analysis but these voices will give a view of where we are now. >> doug jones or roy moore and why? >> i don't know, i wanted to vote for moore but i don't think i will do anymore. >> you want the leader will lead you out but not the best exam e

example. >> i am proud that roy moore is standing up for what he believes but at this point, it is hard to say. >> reporter: that second gentleman was at a table of 14 men. i went up to that table and i said who's here voting for doug jones and they were silent. they're saying they're going to vote for roy moore. i want to bring it up. it is not dissimilar from what we are hearing from the gop apparatus here in the states. you have mo brooks here, he told alex mo, the votes will be casted on the senate floor will determine the fouuture of our country. that's my primary concern and focus. essentially, they have something to go off here. there is little push back from inside the republican party. that's what we are down to, defiant will moore and doug

jones. jones released an ad yesterday had multiple republicans in it. don't decency and integrity matters anymore. the only person nationally joe biden appear ing in the state. >> vonn hillyard, thank you very much. >> coming up, hillary clinton had a clear cut message. we are losing the information war with russia. why three years later was her campaign still vulnerable to it? "morning joe" is coming right back.

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right now it requires for you to file a complaint. you then have another month

where you are subjected to mediation and during that, before you have that mediation, you have to sign a non-disclosure meeting. after that second month, there is a month cooling off period before you can file a complaint. it takes another three months, you have to continue to work in that office in which you were harassed. if you were an intern or a fellow, you are not el availaig this process. the harasser is representing from the house of representat e representatives and the victim has no counsel. the actual agreement may be made in terms of settlements. >> jackie spier speaking yesterday with craig melvin of complicated procedures for filing a sexual harassment complaint. the house of representatives will now require antiharassment

training for members of their staff. the decision of paul ryan. last week, joining us now our new york times reporter, allison. and bill press and former secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs during the obama administration and former editor of time magazine, rick stencle. how does this go from a moment where everybody kind of trans t transmits what's been happening and looking at the reality and concerns of speaking out. how does it become transformational? >> it becomes transformational when people start naming names. the story that we published yesterday, katy rogers and i, we

had someone talking about former congressman gary miller saying she was once a young staffer in hils offi his office and he asked her to twirl in a dress and he likes what he saw and he gave her a raise. there is real stories coming out and it is piling up. when the harvey weinstein victims speaking out and talking about their experiences. in this case, there is a big problem with congress and all interviews i have done, it is clear that sexual harassment is an occupational hazard. there is a system put in place and does not want people to come forward. >> the system is so slanted for the women and the men to come

forward. is anybody changing the system that provides counsel to politicians but not to the person that's coming forward. so there is two bills both in the house and senate that's going to be introduced shortly. she and another senator are essentially channelling se systematic change. they want the office to be different. the republican congressman yesterday during the hearing at the house of administration had where he said the u.s. treasury should not be paying these settlements. you have republicans and democrats saying there needs to be a complete overall of the system. a lot of people say it is taking way too long and most people trying to file a complaint up to three months long and congressman had to work in the office. essentially, there are both lawmakers who are interested in changing this office. i should say in the hearing yesterday, the poeople in the

office says essentially it is functioning perfectly and going the way it is supposed to be going and counsels are there. essentially lawmakers are saying it is unfair. >> the sunlight that's being shun on this issue, it is encredible, houe incredib incredible. the house of representatives, they have a policy to protect the representatives. >> absolutely. by the way, it is almost like duh, there is sexual abuse in capitol hill, i worked in the california state legislature, it was rapid. it is not surprising any time there is men in power who abuse that power whether it is wall street or capitol hill, you will find it.

the system is tilted against the victims is true there and its got to change. i wonder what took them so long. it is all mike in the context of what we are seeing with roy moore. i think one of the biggest things we are saying is donald trump, the ball is in his court. he's the one that can stop roy moore with his own problems, will he be willing to stand up and do it? >> what do you think? >> i don't think he will. >> rick, we had a remarkable moment on capitol hill of something you are writing about and that's it the clinton, the so so-called clinton scandal regarding russia and uranium. we showed seth smith remarkable statement on fox news, what do you know and what are you writing about? >> that was a remarkable statement and he needs to be commended about it. i had a piece how what we saw on

the state department of what russia did. what they did on social media media, and anticipated of what they did in 2016 here. the one person who knew about it and who called me about it even though she was no longer secretary of state was hillary clinton. you got to do something with russia and they are killing us. >> what didn't the obama administration do more from 2013, especially from 2016 about russians of this information? >> we tried. we started the ukrainian task. >> i know mitch mcconnell stood in the way of bipartisan agreement, was barack obama so concerned of being seen as

tipping the scale for hillary clinton, that got the way of executing this s? >> a, i cannot speak for barack obama. remember everybody thought she's going to win. we don't want to tip the scale. as the wikileaks guy were telling donald trump, contesting the election, nobody wanted to do that. russia hand at the state department saw what the russians were doing and active measures that was called during the cold war and they were doing a modern version of it all around the world in crimea. >> let me blow everyone's mind. >> oh my god, you already did. i have to tie everything into a nice little bow. it is not just russian misinformation, although possibly, for instance in alabama after roy moore's accusers come forward, someone went online and we don't know who it was claiming a washington post reporter shopping around thousand dollars gift for these

allegations. it turns out this person is a bot. they are a phony person taking on the pearson occasirsonificat. it allows these types of things to happen. the challenge is not just to stop these but to figure how do we sift through what's clearly bs and propaganda and untrue. >> i agree with you. the problem is media literacy, people cannot distinguish between facts and fiction and we have not equipped to do so. >> they're so good at it and we are not. >> the fiction part. >> i want to go back to before we close this block and back to the topic of sexual harassment,

just watching what's going down with capitol hill of what's going on. we have a situation where realistically from the presidents on down whether it is bill clinton or donald trump, sexual harassment was in the oval office and it was an accepted behavior. we had a situation in our own show and abc news and dealing with that in a public way. are we seeing a situation where this is not talked about and people are trying to think about how to create a safe working environment but certain behaviors are no longer acceptable, anymore? is that where we are going? the stories i am reading which i believer are situations that i have been in. it just sort of how it was 20 years ago. we had to deal with that. >> i think it rarely goes back to two things. one is naming those names, for so long women had to have to deal with sexual harassment but

did not want to actually say who was doing it to them because that person was powerful or that person controls the paycheck or the person was important to the party and they did not believe in. now, we are getting into the point where i know as a reporter, i am starting to hear more names as i do more reporting. that's really going on. the second thing is women is starting the speak up, look, this is not some woman, hysterical his on facebook. this is me and women that you know. we have been dealing with this for years, i cannot name a woman who has not been cat called or told some subjective thing from work and sought back and said okay, i don't want to let go. i know so many women are letting things go at work or at school or on the streets because you don't want to deal with it. as women, there is a feel thag we ha ing that we have to speak up and you have men, after the spoke

up, look, i am a tall, and black man and i was sexually harassed. it is going to change the narrative.memorative. still ahead, a look at the legacy of one of journalism's editors. "morning joe" will bow right back. dad: molly! trash! ( ♪ ) whoo! ( ♪ ) mom: hey, molly? it's time to go! (bell ringing) class, let's turn to page 136,

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it's a remarkable book. >> she's amazing. joining us now, the former editor of "vanity fair," tina brown. she's out with a new book "the vanity fair diaries" which chronicles her eight years as the publication's editor in chief. and "the new yorker" is out with a great write-up of the book, so take a look at that. tina, your career is incredible, and you do so much for women, by the way, women of the world. but this book must have been kind of like a little bit of a journey for you. >> it was such a delight to do this book actually. because it was an escape into this time, the roaring '80s when you were kind of surfing along. media was a much more confident industry. you know, it was a prosperous industry so you were thinking about stories and writing and covers, and you weren't thinking how can we survive. our distribution platform and all these things that just torment us morning, noon and night now. in those days it was have i got

a great cover, have i got a great story, how can i hire this amazing new writer or photographer. it was a joyful time. you realize when you look back, what that was. >> what was it, though, about you and "vanity fair," the combination that created really an earthquake of sorts in the publishing world and in the media world? it was a match made in heaven. >> yeah. i had a vision for a magazine that will be at the front edge of culture. and saw a magazine that would really be a big mix of so many different worlds that were all brought together and tied together by the point of view and the theme, as it were. until that time magazines had been much more vulcanized by this is a political magazine, this is a fashion magazine. in fact the biggest problem i had when i launched it, people kept saying, what is it? is it a fashion magazine? this is a big political piece. this is a crime thing.

there's a big piece in here about van gogh. what is this magazine? i would say it's all of it. we are all of it. we want a magazine that goes high, that goes low, that goes deep, that goes more frothy. >> what was the most difficult story that you ever had to run during your tenure there? >> actually one of the things that was very challenging was we wanted to do a big story about how many people in culture had died of aids, as a matter of fact. at that time people didn't want to have -- their families didn't want to have their photographs used and i wanted to do this celebration of the people that had been lost. and in a sense a piece that said look, look what's happened to our culture. all of these fashion designers and artists and photographers and writers are dying. it's going to change the world. we had a great difficulty in getting people to agree, their families, to say these people died of aids. in their obituaries they talked about he died of a heart attack, of pneumonia, so that was a very

powerful thing that we were able to do. >> you know, in the 20th century, especially the latter half of the 20th century, there were a handful of great editors, newspaper editors, magazine editors. you were one of them. it's my premise that you were one of them because you got what great editors do get, people like to read about people. that's still a truism. but it certainly was then. the years that you were editor of "vanity fair," it was astonishing, every month was astonishi astonishing. >> thank you, mike. you would take a person and through them explore their world so that was the great joy in having a big narrative magazine. you would do a piece about an accused murderer but through the world you could explore the world of newport, the seedy world of all of those rich people pretending to be something they were not and you could go deep into their world.

or doing something like diane fossey, the gorilla lady who was murdered by poachers. we went into the powers trying to stop it and this woman said it was very exciting to take people and explore their world. >> what an incredible time to be an editor of "vanity fair" from '83 to '92, new york in transition. you talk about seedy. the city that nobody could govern in the 1970s, gentrification on the other side of you being the editor in the mid-1990s. but during that time you had -- it was the bonfire of the vanities. plus with these huge characters on this national stage where there was reagan, trump, michael jackson, princess diana, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. >> huge. and i met them all. and what was interesting, as an editor, though, was to always find the person that was behind

these masks. when i interviewed michael jackson, i was stunned because he -- we had heard all these wild, crazy -- he sounded like some loon. then he walks in and he's this kind of shy, very tall, and he talked about how he likes to go to bed and read. new york short stories and michael jackson? i don't get it. but that was actually who he was. he was very eccentric. and you realize that celebrity sometimes makes people so out there that they're in their own little bubbles and makes it very interesting to meet them, though. and meeting clint eastwood and finding he was just a huge ball. he was such a ball. >> after reading donald trump's "the art of the deal" you said it had a, quote, crassness i like, adding in the end the only thing about self-serving books like this is do they capture true voice? there is something about trump's bull blank anyway, it feels,

when you have finished it that you have been nose to nose for four hours with an entertaining con man and i suspect the american public will like nothing better. you wrote that already 30 years before he became president. >> i got his appeal actually. he was brash, he was fun, he was outrageous. who knew. although we did also run a wonderful piece by marie brennan which talked about he had hitler's speeches on his desk and that made a lot of news. >> wow, does that make sense today. so i just want to say meryl streep, i love this. i love meryl streep. this is how she describes it. i remembered why i was afraid of her in those days, speaking of you, and why that energy and imagination turned to making the world better has galvanized so many of us now. a cultural catalyst. she makes things happen. thank god she wrote it all down. hang on, it's a wild ride. tina brown, thank you so much.

>> thank you, tina. >> "the vanity fair diaries." get it. it's a great christmas gift. thanks, tina. >> thanks, mika. >> i like it. i'm taking it. i'm having her sign it. >> you're not going to rewrap this one? >> i usually regift. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. thanks, joe. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. we've got a lot to hit, starting with the roy moore fallout. in the alabama senate race, the rnc finally backing away, as national republican leaders unite against the controversial candidate. >> the allegations are credible. he should step aside. >> the candidate himself staying defiant, blaming the real enemy. >> that's all the press want to talk about. >> darn right. and not just us. a new report reveals the scope of russian interference in elections around the world. meanwhile, investigators in this