we're out of time. i could talk to my friends here forever. my thanks to katy tur, jeremy peter, elise and brett. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" starts now. hi, chuck. i stole katy tur. so jealous she does nor shyour stole her for mine. >> islet you do on days that are notmo monday. >> thank you, nicolle. if it's wednesday, more answers from roy moore. at least we expect some any minute now. tonight, the roy moore campaign sunder more pressure. will they relent, or will the gop? and where does the president stand? with stell don't know. >> should roy moore resign, mr. president? plus, how health care is getting tangled up in the

republican tax plan. >> didn't have the votes, and now this kind of hail mary pass. >> finally, from refugee to mayor-elect. we'll bring you the fascinating story of one of the country's newest politicians. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." we are standing by for a press conference from an adviser for alabama republican senate candidate roy moore. supposed to take place in a few moments from now in birmingham. the moore campaign says that this person will be speaking on the recent allegations of sexual misconduct against judge moore. allegations moore denied and we are watching this. i think at this point, let's find out what we're going to hear at this press conference. here it is. >> -- campaign so you can expect most anything to come out but we

can't just stand by idly and let these charges go without answers. a lot of people told us different things about these stories and we're checking them all out. we can tell you we have information we're going to share with you today and we know you'll share it with those folks you're communicating with about some of these charges. i am bill armstead, chairman of the campaign for judge moore and want to introduce philip dreggy, consequently campaign for justice moore campaign back in 2000. he's an attorney and i'd like to turn this over there mr. dreggy and he'll make some comments. >> appreciate y'all being here today. this is very important, of course in respect have been have serious, serious allegations and we really appreciate the media and what you do to help get the word out and spread the truth. as an aside i've known judge moore 24 years. when he's allegations came out within the last week it was

incredibly, incredibly painful for him, his wife, hi mom, his grandchildren. and in these cases when it's true, it's horrible for the person making the allegations. but when the allegations are made and it's not true it's also horrible for the person who those allegations are directed against. back in 2000, judge moore asked me to be campaign manager, campaign chairman and one of the greatest honors and will be one of the greatest honors of my life. during that time and afterwards asked me to be his attorney. i was one of the attorneys that represented him in the ten commandments case. as you know, some other cases over the last 20 years, and i've traveled with judge moore all over the state, in different states across the nation. i've been with him in probably over 100 different meetings, and been around probably in excess of 10,000 different ladies in judge moore's presence and not

once, not one time, have i ever seen him act even remotely inappropriately against or toward any woman. not when they were walking away, not when he and i were in private afterwards. that's the man i know and have known the last 24 hours. now, the allegations that have come out, i hope you understand, it takes time to work through this. we don't have a $20 million budget as a campaign. it takes time and we want to be correct. make sure when we say something, it's proper. okay? we're still working through some things but there are some things you ought to know and we want to make you aware of. during the press conference ms. nelson and gloria allred had on monday they both said that ms. nelson after the allegations had never seen nor had any contact with judge moore. as it turns out, in 1999, ms. nelson file add divorce action

against her then husband mr. harris. guess who that case was before? it was filed in etowah county and the judge assigned was roy moore, circuit judge of etowah county. there was contact. judge moore signed an order in that case as well and we'll talk about that in a minute. we've also had a manned writing expert looking at the evidence that was submitted. you may remember on monday ms. nelson and ms. allred in support really the only piece of evidence they had in addition to the allegations was yearbook, where they claimed it had been sign and look back what they said. everything on that page they said was written by judge moore. judge moore not only denied everything she said before and flatly denies that, and he says, it's not true. we have a handwriting expert, pardon me, that's looking at those, but here's the problem. a handwriting expert can't look

at copy on the internet. right? they've got to look at an original. so right now trent garmin, an attorney, has sent, or is sending a letter to gloria allred demanding the yearbook be wee leased. we'll send it to a mutual custodian who will keep chain of custody and our professional expert will examine it and find out, is it genuine? or is it a fraud? a couple things also you need to know. i won't go into everything on that paper, because, again, we need to have our handwrite be expert draw conclusions. i'm not going to draw them today or make allegations we can't support with an expert. a couple things you need to look at. look at the 1977 after merry christmas, look at the two 7s and look below at the '77. i want to ask you, do you think it was written by the same person? i want you to look at old hickory house, which they say judge moore wrote. judge moore says no way in the world that's his handwriting.

and i want you to look at it. look at the other writing of his and make your own determination. that's what our expert will be but for now, you all take a look. use your judgment. and finally, after judge moore's signature it has the initials capital d, period, a, period. i told you about that '99 divorce action. judge moore looked at that d.a., after his signature, alleged he was the district attorney. he wasn't. he was the assistant district attorney but judge moore says he can't remember ever signing his name with d.a. after it but had seen it before. you know where he had seen it? when he was on the bench, his assistant, whose initials are capital d period, a period, delbert adams, would stamp his name and put capital d period, a period, that's exactly how the signature appearsen 0 the divorce degree that judge moore signed dismissing the divorce action with ms. nelson.

knowing these things, i've got a question, gloria allred and ms. nelson. do you still hold that everything written in that yearbook was written by judge moore? or was it written by somebody else? that's not an allegation. that's a question. finally, we demand that you immediately release the yearbook to a neutral custodian so that our expert, you can send your expert as well, if you'd like to, so that our expert can look at it. not a copy on the internet. the actual document so we can see the lettering. we can see the ink on the page. we can see the indentations and we can see how old is that ink? is it 40 years old? or is it a week old? release the year booshg so we can determine, is it genuine, or a fraud. thank you very much. >> mr. dreggy what do you say to the -- >> i have information that i'll be happy to pass out to you guys. we have -- first of all, you probably have seen a lot of this on the internet. >> please, step up to the mike.

>> probably seen a lot of this on the internet. this, these are copies of what was shown by mrs. allred. i'll let you all pass them out, if that's okay. also, what we have here is a copy of the divorce papers. not the entire thing. it shows the top page and so important we show the final page which has judge moore's signature on it. with the d.a. >> sir, two quick questions. >> we have the -- roy moore signature here. the d.a., added by his assistant. the same d.a. initials. that are written on the yearbook. >> sir, does judge moore plan to testify under oath like -- >> i'll be glad to pass these on this side. since this is a legal matter, legal expert has spoken -- >> why won't you answer any

questions? >> thank you very much. >> why won't you answer any questions? >> why were you on "hannity" sir? >> all right. you've just heard there, and if you're a bit confused, it's one of the five accuser -- there's been five accusers against roy moore. the fifth one they targeted in this press conference that you heard from the person that is representing judge moore, apparently as his attorney there, and as campaign chair and the accuser that showed the year boos yearbook with gloria allred. the most important thing is what you didn't hear. you didn't hear a single denial or single attempt trying to explain away the initial four allegations that came in the original "washington post." they obviously feel fairly confident about whatever that gloria allred mess was the other day, but on the initial issue of the 14-year-old, that was not talked about, not touched in any way, shape or form, which, of course, it's been that allegation that has led to most

of the republican party fleeing. let me bring in tonight's panel. national reporter for the netanyahu. daniel pletka, vice president of the american enterprise institute and maria theresa kamarch and also an msnbc contributor. welcome all. yep ea yamiche, interesting what they did and didn't talk ab's obviously, they're very focused on the most recent allegation. and i think also because gloria allred is involved almost allows it to be tabloidish. >> and they can point to that one and have a probable reliability bringing in a handwrite be expert, attack whether or not he wrote this. they are essentially feel going about this, as you said. what's really important on the other issues especially that 14-year-old girl you heard from the lawyers, not, oh, he didn't do this, well, i had permission of their mothers. well in some cultures women --

this is something that's okay. and then, that's what caused mitch mcconnell to say i believe the women and call for his resignation. not because of what gloria allred said but all the other women. it might help him in the race. >> i got the impression this wa was the campaign holding supporters talking points? >> absolutely. >> there's no official lawsuit filed. trust me. they want to demand that yearbook. gloria allred will demand discovery. right? they would love to put roy moore under oath. i'm getting they won't put him under oath either? >> no. but this turned into a little bit of a circus and i think roy moore is happy to see that happen, because it brings discredit and questions and furthers his narrative, that the media is out to get him. that the republican party is out to get him, because he's a maverick. because he sees someone who's going to upend the establishment and status quo. sort of the bannon-ite approach to politics in america is, let's burn everything and have a dumpster fire and elect me.

>> yeah. that -- i don't know what to add to that. it does feel like that. >> what's interesting, since the beginning of these allegations he has taken every single opportunity to do a fund-raising appeal. rye after the allegations came in, on a fund-raising appeal. his lawyer said, so sorry, can't do the full extent of this campaign and actually look into this because we don't have $20 million. that's a fund-raising appeal and what makes this despicable. they're not taking any sort of ownership, and same time they are trying to appeal as you're saying to his base and saying, look, leave this alone. come out and vote. >> look, the pressure that got put on the moore campaign today, amped up even more. the nrsc, republican arm released a poll. wouldn't say which pollster, because no pollster wants to be caught pulling for the establishment on this one now. claimed a double-dump it lead for the democrat, yamiche,

however, roy moore got one piece of help today. the president spoke and never talked about it. >> that -- that could help him, but in reality i think donald trump, one, of course, we remember did not endorse him. he won without donald trump's support. will donald trump pulling away support now, it's memorable and it's something we should obviously note about president trump, he didn't say anything, but also wasn't integral to his campaign. that's interesting to me. i also think when we think about how this goes forward, there's a cultural aspect to this. making arguments and saying, well, there was mary and joseph. there's this idea that, in their fund-raising campaigns saying this is a war and essentially the enemy is the media. that's in line with donald trump. an idea that donald trump is best when he's doing these cultural wars and i think roy moore is being in ways smart for him to use this in a cultural way saying look at all the other countries. just today with ali velshi.

that exchange was -- >> with the lawyer there, the same lawyer, and he went on the air and essentially said, well, your background, and apparently referring to the fact that ali was originally born in kenya and there has been -- had arranged marriages in kenya before. i mean, you're one of the world. traveled well. >> i am. last time i was on the show i called roy moore a scumbag, which i stand by and i think these people agree about that. i got a phone call from someone calling me an australia epithet, as if somehow this was going to cut me to the core. a notion of america against the rest of the world that infuses this bannonite wing of the party that is so corrosive and so un-american, it's really incredible. >> completely unpatriotic. the fact he went out and started to find allies by people he believes, and perpetuating stereotypes part of the danger. more so, the fact, get back to this, it was a 14-year-old.

who gets banned from a mall? >> and again, look -- i want to go back to -- they want to focus on gloria allred, accuse egg. i understand she has a reputation for basically, oh, there's cameras over there? let me see if i can find a client and go do that. i'll tell you, if she's, fake this or this is a fraud accusation, you're really doing a disservice to the four women who clearly weren't comfortable speaking out and wanted to -- i mean, i certainly -- you know, you have harmed these four women if they do that, yamiche. >> i've also reported on sexual harassment on capitol hill. the people are very -- as a reporter, you're very careful that the "washington post," they are very careful the way they put this story together. might have had way more women moop knows. my story published yesterday, we had more women to put in the story but you have to button down and bullet-proof your

story. in gloria allred has somebody that's project lent it completely taints what these other people have said, gives a talking point to others to say this is a war on the media and means it's a, helping roy moore because he can make that argument. >> sadly, also feeding into the same narrative that many women say has taken place for years. this is what happens. victims get attacked, and that's why they don't speak out. >> and make no mistake that is exactly what they doing. they were attacking the victim, in this one instance. the 14-year-old -- >> which is important. that they only have one they even feel comfortable pushing back on. >> but does this surprise anybody that gloria allred would be involved in somebody unscrupulous, camera hungry, not have fact checked and could undermine the entire question? it doesn't surprise me in the least. having watched her career. >> no. i mean, it's -- >> no, no. >> i don't disagree with any of that, but at the same time, our politics and conversations are becoming more machiavellian. is she a plant?

could easily be -- that's a problem. what they just did is created doubt on one case. that taints everything. >> again they didn't file any suits. what suit have they filed? no legal -- gloria allred's client has -- she has no duty to do anything there. you have an issue, go ahead, file the suit. >> they're afraid of that. >> then he would -- you don't want discovery. do you? >> in my interviews i did with dozens of women what i found that scared them the most apart from the repercussions of actually being the face of sexual harassment on capitol hill, they didn't think people would believe this. this could go to the actual cher, if this woman's lying, the next woman, another woman who has actually been attacked won't be believed because number five wasn't believed. that enmoos numbers seven, eight and nine won't be believed. it's a real disservice if this woman is actually wrong. the flip side, if she's telling the truth, they went and attacked the woman and were skillful in doing it because they have everyone wondering,

maybe they're lying. maybe she's wrong. >> like, we've hire add handwriting expert, but we can't use this handwriting expert on the internet. >> yeah. >> minor correction. the lawyer that spoke with ali velshi, it was not the same lawyer. they happen to really look alike, for what it's worth on that. go down to alabama now. colleague von hilliard is there in montgomery, there the last week or so. okay, vaughn, can you clarify anything? does the moore campaign claim they filed a suit? they keep referring to a case? and yet -- there doesn't seem to be one here. this was -- obviously, alleging a pushback against one accuser but not the other four? >> reporter: yeah. it's official, right before that press conference started, no such word of an actual case or a legal filing. threatening two different publications. aol.com as well as the

"washington post." knot nothing in the form of that. right behind where that press conference took place in birmingham 21 kms members are meeting and having a discussion over potentially removing roy moore as a candidate from the republican party. this is, i want to be up front. this is unlikely to happen from the committee members we talked to, but this is a conversation that is taking place. pretty much if you're looking at the alabama gop apparatus and one way to stop roy moore, make the case this is it. it's coming down to that's unlikely to happen and what it's alabama gop is left with, how do they fund this? back this up? out supported by mitch mcconnell 5-1. a month and a half ago. 11-1 may be a different scenario under the circumstances we're looking at now. >> and is there a -- i mean, is there a faction of the alabama

republican party that does want him out? and what is the argument, what is their plan b if they pull their essential support or pull the nomination? >> reporter: so if they pull the nomination, how it would work from that point, the party contends that the secretary of state would then nullify a roy moore victory. because those ballots have already been printed, with roy moore's name on it, the secretary of state would then nullify the race and potentially another special election would take place. but, again, this 21 committee member, talked to rnc committeeman reynolds over the weekend. he was specific. the only person that will take himself out of the race is roy moore. another committeewoman said they would not allow a nameless, faceless group of people to take away from the voters wanted and said you can think whatever you want of the man and believe the allegations to be true, but they're not going to allow 21 individuals, part of this gop apparatus, to take those -- votes away. you know? about 700,000 people vote add month and a half ago that came

out for that runoff. >> curious. does the alabama republican party, are they operating with any official guidance from the president or not? >> reporter: i will say, though, you know, with the rnc pulling out, 11 operatives as well as a joint fund-raising agreement. donald trump that oversees the republican party. i've been reminded over and over by rnc committeemen and women that donald trump oversees the rnc. it's his. that decision, we don't have reporting independently, but that decision, surprised if it didn't come without the approval of the white house, chuck. >> it's a fair point. the president himself has not said anything,ened many people believe the only remote chance they have of getting roy moore to get out is to get the president to personally call him and do it. all right. we shall see. vaughn hilliard, back to work. panel, stick around. much more. latest on the republican tax plan. that's now including a little health care. that in a moment as well.

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welcome back. we'll get to all of the roy moore developments coming up, but folks, last year, heck, the last eight years taught us anything it's that health care is a radioactive issue in american politics. hard stop. senate republicans have taken their tax bill and turned it into a health care bill. or at least partially. by inserting language repealing the obamacare original mandate. >> we're optimistic that inserting the individual mandate

repeal would be helpful. >> i think now is a good time to repeal bad policy. i've always felt the individual mandate is not working the way we all, you know, envisioned. >> always said if we can get it in there without imperilling the bill, it's a good thing. >> the mandate will go sooner or later. might as well get rid of it now. >> i want to get rid of the individual mandate any way i k. already seeing some members balk. a at the new health plan. senator ron johnson's wisconsin put on the a statement before we went on the air saying he's opposing the package saying he thought the process as offensive because he didn't believe there was enough input from senators. frankly, a similar argument he gave over health care. then repealing the individual mandate helping the gop solve one problem. a math issue fop avoid filibusters, because it frees up nearly $340 billion, which they can use to help pay for the tax cuts and keep it within the

parameters that, again, avoids having to deal with some 60 vote threshold on this bill. but worsens another problem for them. the politics of it. because the number of insured is likely going to plummet by at least 13 million people, according to congressional budget office, because the assumption is many of these people if though don't have to buy it may not buy it. they don't buy it, average premiums go up and estimate by at least 10%. so folks, probably not going to see many democrats for blue or red states support the tax plan now. now that it's become a health care bill, guess what? the dead base won't like it if they do that. so politically, as the gop, will they regret this decision even if it helps them pass it? joining me, republican senator john kennedy of louisiana. senator kennedy, we heard new there on the mandate. first of all, thanks for coming on, sir. >> you bet, chuck. >> get to the roy moore questio out of the way. i don't know what you heard but they're pushing back against one

accuser but still have no answers for the initial four accusers. where are you on this? and do you think if he does win the election the u.s. senate should eat him? >> if mr. moore did what's been alleged, he ought to step aside. now, first, the people of alabama get to have a say. if mr. moore wins the election, i anticipate that someone in the senate will file an ethics charge. at that point there will be an investigation. the facts will be presented to us, and the senate will vote, and i don't want to prejudge those facts. i want to see what the people of alabama do. >> i'm curious. you know, the state of louisiana went through this. your republican party went through a similar situation had you a nominee many people thought was a bit too toxic to win, and lo and behold, he

couldn't win. it's the person you replaced in the u.s. senate, of course, david bitter. >> right. >> if you could have a few minutes with roy moore, how would you share the david bitter story with him? >> well, if i had a few minutes with mr. moore, i would tell him to tell the truth. just look the american people and the people of alabama in the eye, and tell the truth, and if it's -- if it's the truth, then -- then be prepared to be accountable for it. and i understand his position is that's what he's doing. the problem is that for him, his accusers disagree. and i've said it day one, i'll say it again. if the allegations are true, he ought to step down. but there will be, if he is elected, and we have to wait and see what the people of alabama want to do. i mean, they have a say in this, after all. i suspect based on what i've heard on the floor of the senate

that an ethics charge would be brought. the matters would be investigated. the facts would be presented, and then we'll have facts on which to make a judgment. >> do you think judge moore's accuser are credible? >> i don't want to get into credibility. i want to wait until there's a full investigation, and then i'll make a judgment about the facts and the credibility at that time. >> all right. let me ask you about the tax plan and a couple things about it. number one, you heard senator johnson. he's against it. he doesn't like the process. is he -- doesn't like two things about it. he thinks it's -- it's -- it weighs too heavily on the side of big corporations versus big businesses and doesn't like the process. does he have a fair point on the process? >> well, this is what i would say to my friend ron, and any fellow senators. you know -- follow your heart. but -- take your brain with you.

this is a solid bill. it -- it helps businesses. for example, right now a marge's tax rate pays about 50% in taxes because of double taxation. this bill reduces those taxes to 40%. pass through, reduces taxes from 39% to 32%. on the personal side according to the committee, if you make betweens 20ds,000 and $30,000 a year you'll get roughly a 10% tax cut. $50,000 to $70,000, 7%. a million or more 5%. now, i believe -- i believe that people can spend their money, the money they earn, all things being equal, better than government can and i think that the problem with -- we tried everything, chuck, with this economy. everything, to get it moving. we tried monetary policy. lowering interest rates. we tried stimulus spending.

we've done quantitative easing out the wazzu. we tried everything but reforming the tax code. i think it will work. i think this will add half a point, maybe a point, to gross domestic product. i think you'll see foreign investment, foreign direct investment go up by 50%. i think it will work. i know others disagree with me. >> two criticisms this bill will get politically. one, corporations get a permanent tax cut. individuals only a ten-year one. tough thing to defend on the campaign trail. >> i don't like that. i don't like that. i'm still looking for a way to make it all permanent. the problem, of course, is how to pay for it, and the last eight years, the deficit, the national debt's, gone up $8 trillion or $9 trillion. i'd love to cut trillions of taxes and not have to worry about the debt, but we do. what we're trying to do is strike a balance between cutting taxes so we can move the economy

again, while at the same time being mindful of the fact that we owe $20 trillion and we've got to pay it back. >> you're saying you're being mindful of it, but this bill, bu the numbers, increases the debt by at least $1.5 trillion over ten years. i understand there's the -- >> that's the -- >> dynamic scoring you're expecting, never seen something like that. you really believe we're going to make up $2 trillion in revenue for a $1.5 trillion down payment? >> i don't think there's any reputable economist out there who can look you in the eye with a straight face and say that tax cuts don't have an impact on economic growth. even the democrats believe in this curve. they may disagree with republicans about the optimal point on the mark crocro curve, this is america, you believe what you want, but their

position is -- >> that's true -- >> that tax cuts have absolutely zero impact on economic growth. and that's nonsense. look, the more you tax something, the less you give of it. >> i understand. let me ask it this way, senator. >> okay. >> no. let me ask you this way. >> you go ahead. >> do you believe this tax bill will lower the deficit in the ten-year period? and static scoring, it's going to increase it, 1.5 trillion? you believe -- >> i do. i do. >> and at the end of ten years our debt will be lower, not higher? >> i do. if we can achieve an average ofs 2.4% growth, we'll run a circlist and i remind you, chuck, before 2008, average gdp in america was 3.1%. so 2.4, 2.5%, we're not talking about a home run here. we're talking about a single.

>> all right. last question. health care politically has been very difficult. for you guys to deal with. >> uh-huh. >> why add it to the tax bill when you can see politically the public doesn't want you guys messing with health care like this right now? >> well, you're talking about the mandate. and the mandate in context of tax reform is not health care. it's tax. all we're doing is repealing the fines. in my state, for example, 135,000 people pay the fine rather than buy the insurance. out of that 135,000 people, 80% make less than $50,000. 50% make less thanes 25ds,000. $25,000. i don't think we ought to punish people for not buying health insurance they can't afford and that's all this bill will do is say, look, we're not going to fine you anymore if you can't afford the health insurance. >> you do know the impact could be raising premiums on everybody else? >> i don't concede that. number one that assumes that we

don't do anything about health care in the first or second quarter of 2018. now, i know we failed twice. we're going to try a third time. >> fair enough. >> try a third time and maybe a fourth and a fifth and that also assumes that lamar alexander's bill doesn't pass. i'm not telling you i'm for lamar's bill. i'm still looking at it, but you're assuming i don't think you're making this allegation, but some have said, oh, you don't care about some losing health insurance. of course go. of course we do. and we need to be given an opportunity to address that, and we will in 2018. look, if it were up to me, chuck, i know we got to go. i wouldn't go home for thanksgiving. i think we ought to vote next week, even if we have to vote thanksgiving day and move on. >> i'll be in town. happy to cover that. i promise. i like to get my turkey in but i'd cover that. i promise you. senator, thanks for coming up. >> you bet, man. coming up after the break,

we'll going to talk with senator susan collins, not happy about the inclusion of the mandate into this tax bill. we'll be right back. ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪

all right. let me bring in another republican senator. susan collins of maine. one of the pivotal three no stleets took down the obamacare repeal. so it won't surprise many that she's a bit of a skeptic of this idea of throwing in the individual mandate. senator collins, welcome to the show. >> thanks so much, chuck. >> all right. i have to say, considering -- talk policy here in a minute, but the political backdrop on health care this year, whether you followed the election returns in your home state, with the decision by your voters to expand medicaid, or what we saw in virginia, number one issue was health care, even though none of the candidates were debating it, do you believe politically this is a good idea for the republican party to lump a major piece of the health care legislation into the tax legislation? >> i don't think it's a good idea from either a political or

a policy perspective. health care is such a complex issue, and to pull one section out of the affordable care act without any kind of replacement such as an auto enrollment, bill cassidy suggested earlier this year, and put it into a very complex tax bill does not make sense. >> what do you say you heard senator kennedy's -- i don't know if you heard senator kennedy's argument. his argument, in his state 80% of the folks pay the fine. middle to lower income, and it's -- might at well serve as a tax break for them. what do you say to that? >> well, that's true in my state as well. 80% of those who pay the fine earn under $50,000 a year. but what i would take a look at is what the increase in premiums

as a result of ending the individual mandate would do to the tax rethree of would be provided to middle income people under this bill, and the fact is that it more than cancels it out, and that's why i think that if we're going to go this route, it's so important that we pass the bill authored by senators alexander and murray which have co-sponsored, which would actually decrease premiums by about 20%. >> so if that bill got passed, you would support the -- you would tacitly support repeal of the mandate? >> well, i'm not going to make a final decision on the tax bill until i look at all of the provisions. >> sure. >> for example, i'm very concerned about the deduction being eliminated for state and local taxes. >> right. >> that's a real issue as far as middle income tax relief. >> what about college tuition? what about -- there's a lot of

these deductions they're getting rid of. college tuition seems like another one that frankly is a bigger hit to some of the northeastern states as well? >> well, there's so many provisions, and the fact is this bill is still a moving target. for example, the house eliminated the medical expense deduction for people who have extraordinarily high medical costs. that's back in. in the senate version, i'm pleased to say, but this really is still not a final product, but one of the other problems about including some part of the affordable care act repeal without any replacement in this bill is it guarantees that we will not get a bipartisan bill, and my goal would be to have a bipartisan bill. >> it sounds like -- you're a much harder senator to get to yes on the tax bill if this repeal of the mandate is in there? is that fair to say? >> that's fair to say, but i do

want to make clear that i'd support tax reductions and tax reform. we have haven't overhauled the tax code since 1986 and we do need to provide tax relief to boost our economy and help our working families. >> i want to ask you one roy moore question. i know earlier you were asked about the idea of expulsion. and you seemed to be -- a little leery that -- that is something that -- i mean, do you think that this u.s. senate, if the voters of alabama send roy moore to the senate, knowing everything that's out there now, do you think you guys -- do you think -- you should expel -- do you think you should expel him, and do you think you will? >> first let me say that i've never supported roy moore, even before all of the allegations of sexual abuse. >> right. >> because of his having twice been removed from the supreme

court in alabama. but i recognize that this is a decision for alabama voters to make. and as i look at the case law and the constitution, there are no grounds for refusing to seat him. the only way you can do that is if he does not meet the constitutional requirements which he clearly does. the issue of whether the ethics committee could hold an investigation that might lead to an expulsion resolution is a whole other issue, and i think we're getting way ahead of of ourselves. >> yes. i think -- let's let the voters, probably let the voters have their say first and then we'll figure it out. >> exactly. exactly. >> senator susan collins, republican from maine. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. appreciate it. >> than, chuck. we'll be right back with new breaking news out of alabama. another new accuser is stepping forward. this one, the first one, making accusation against judge moore

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a little more breaking news as the roy moore campaign tries to rebut allegations of one of the charges against their candidate. since we've been on the air, a consortium of alabama newspapers just posted this story featuring also from two more women giving the number to seven.

a gadsden woman say moore groped her. a second woman in the story. kelly harrison thorp, who says moore asked her out when working as a waitress at the age of 17 and, of course, he was in his 30ss. we're reaching out to the moor campaign to see if they have comment on these allegations. so far denied any inappropriate behavior or sexual misconduct and have a specific denial and accusation at what accuser. again, nothing to rebut any of the other accusers. we'll be right back with more on this story. (♪) it all starts with a wish. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down

and a complementary first months payment. accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth. if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together

and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. welcome back. our panel is back. literally, here you have the moore campaign all fired up, trying to rebut one, and trying to make gloria allred the story.

politically i understand why they're doing it. this is why i think the republican party is not walking away from him. they're fleeing. >> so the question really is actually about the republican party. and those who are pushing roy moore to stay in this race. notwithstanding the fact before we finish, there will be another accuser out there. for me, this reminds me of the tea party democrats that got elected. in indiana, in delaware. >> the tea party democrats? like they won because of the bad -- >> they won because there was a bad republican nominee. i'm sorry. that's what they are. these are people who would not have otherwise won their seat. if the establishment republican had been allowed to remain in the race. it is a democracy. people can run and they should run and there should be ideological competition in the parties. there's no monopoly. but you knlts help but think there's an agenda to destroy the republican party. >> by who? who is -- i guess, is it bannon?

mcconnell? bannon would say it's mcconnell. >> to me it is those who stand behind people like roy moore. because they are so unbelievably damaging. not just to the individual or the democracy. >> this is a story about the republican base. if the voters are saying that we're still standing behind roy moore, it shouldn't be republican leader shift to say we know best what our voters, we know more than our voters. i've talked to so many women, if i have to go there, back to the "access hollywood" tape. running about women accusing then candidate trump of acting sexually inappropriately and the voters either shrugged their shoulders or told me, my husband has said worse. i've dealt with this my whole life. women should deal with this. it is not just about the republican party. it is about what society is dealing with and in their own

homes. >> this goes to, you know, gary was unacceptable. bill clinton was acceptable. >> the slope has been -- >> but i think the challenge, this is a perfect example of when you try to lecture officials, you want them to have leadership and moral ethics. it is really difficult for the republican party to back roy moore. i think we are having a moral reckoning as a country. the voters, yes, they can choose their individuals but the republican party, the leadership keeps moving the moral goalposts and people say it's not so bad. >> not to use the tried and true rebuttal but this ship sailed with bill clinton when he had sex with an intern under his desk in the oval office. >> i would say the difference between two is that that was consensual.

>> a 21-year-old? >> she was 23. >> if she were your daughter, you wouldn't be saying that, i can tell you that. >> the difference is it was consensual. these women came out and said i was assaulted by the nominee at the time. that's the difference. >> i think a lot of, i think this is why we're where we're at. people get into their corners based on the political ideology of the person accused. in today's magazine, basically, introducing this idea, okay. what if democrats were in this situation? do we know 100% that they would throw this guy overboard? >> i think what we saw with weinstein. >> he is not an elected official. he was not a deciding vote in the united states senate. >> i think as a reporter, i think parties still want to support -- >> they want to protect their own. but i think at the end of the

day, it comes down the to the voters. i don't know if donald trump had been a democrat, if he would have been elected with the "access hollywood" tape. i don't know that. and i'm still wrapping my brain around it as a report he. i went to ohio and pennsylvania. it felt more cultural. like i am used to this in my own home. i am used to as a woman men touching my body in ways i don't want to and i won't hold donald trump to a different standard. >> thank you. all spirited roundtable. we'll be right back. ♪ what i got's full stock

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that's all we have for tonight. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. so many directions you can go. >> we have a lot coming out of that unusual press conference. thank you. breaking right now, two new accusers stepping out against roy moore as his campaign hold as press conference, rebutting just one of the seven accounts against him. >> and tonight, the state of alabama's largest news publisher has a brand new report with a sixth woman accusing roy moore of groping her. tina johnson alleging this occurred in 1991. she said she was 28 at the time and married at the time. a new report reports a new second accuser who says when she was 17 years old and moore was in his 30s, moore asked her out and she recounts that he told her he went out with girls her age a