that he and president xi agreagreed that there would be no freeze for the proposal regarding north korea. what is the president's understanding of what he and xi agreed about that, and does the president stand by that statement yesterday? >> both sides made their position clear. they are different, but we agree that they're going to be different positions and, therefore, it's not going to move forward. >> before the president left for his trip to asia, he was called on the justice department to look into the democrats and that situation as he put it. and days later the attorney general asked special prosecutors to look into the uranium one allegations in the clinton foundation. did the president cross any lines or try to influence the justice department and the attorney general to look into the situation of the democrats? >> the president hasn't directed any investigation or the appointment of a special counsel. he said publicly he hasn't been involved with that and that's

entirely up to the department of justice. brian? >> going back to russia just a bit. when he says he spoke with putin, and he believed he meant what he did. in other words there was no collusion with the government. >> he actually says he believed that putin believed what he says and he wasn't going to get into an argument with that when they had bigger things like north korea and the issues in syria they needed to deal with. >> so the question being, he's always maintained it was the democrats who colluded with russia. is he saying putin exonerated the democrats? >> the president still firmly believes there was collusion with the democrats during this election process. but he's not going to get into the back and forth with a world leader that he needs to work with and wants to work with in order to deal with some of the big and serious things facing our country right now. >> as a new yorker, is president trump concerned that the potential tax increases for hard-working new yorkers who can no longer deduct state and local

taxes might cause an exodus from new york, losing his spot as the u.s. and world financial capital? >> we've addressed this. a very minimum number of people itemize their deductions but i've says a few times today. i feel like a broken record today. the president is focused on the principles he laid out and making sure we get the most tax cuts possible for the people of the middle class and for most americans, and that's what he's been focused on. i'll take one last ye. >> senator johnson, republican, raised some questions about the fairness of the tax proposal, particularly disparity between corporate individuals and the way -- big corporations and regional corporations, the way they're treated as well. what concessions is the white house prepared to make to senator johnson, and if you make concessions to him, are you worried other republicans will demand their own concessions on issues of importance to him and you have this revolving door of senators who want something from you? >> that's for the members of the

senate to work through. not something the president is getting into the necessarily the back and forth of that conversation at this point in time. again, he spoke with senator johnson. he supports the priorities. he wants to work with members of the senate to bring them together to make sure we pass historic tax cuts and tax reform. >> can you offer senator johnson anything when they spoke? >> no, but he did encourage him to get on board and support the tax reform package. >> thanks, guys. we'll be around the rest of the afternoon. >> hi, everyone. sarah huckabee sanders headline right there for you that the president is going to leave it up to the people of alabama to decide whether or not roy moore should represent them in the u.s. senate. reverting back to the if true, then defense of several days ago. well, sexual misconduct is in the center ring of american politics again today. leann tweeden, a radio newscaster who traveled with al franken in 2006 to the meefts

for a uso tour accused him of forcefully kissing her against his will. she also posted a picture of him with his hands over her breasts while she was sleeping. that was 11 years ago. today in a press conference, she explained why she chose to share that story now. >> i was afraid to speak out 11 years ago. i wanted to say something and there were people around me who says you'll get annihilated and you'll never work in this town again. and i was afraid of that. i really was afraid of that. i'm doing it now because it's different. there's strength in numbers. congresswoman jackie spear has come out and she's talking about it now. and when she said she had that experience when she was in her 20s, that was my catalyst to sort of go, if i'm going to tell my story, now is the time. 2017 is not 2006. you know, it's just a different time and maybe i can be somebody's jackie spear and they can tell their story in realtime

and not wait. >> franken issued an apology almost immediately and followed it up with a lengthy statement which, among other thijs, call for an ethics investigation into himself writing, i respect women. i don't respect men who don't and the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed. but i want to say something else. over the last few months, all of uincluding and especially men who respect women have been forced to take a good, hard look at their own actions and think perhaps shamefully, for the first time, about how those actions have affected women. i am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and i will gladly cooperate. franken's actions are reprehensible. a point he doesn't seem to dispute. but his response is in stark contrast to roy moore who today surrounded himself with religious leaders and portrayed himself as the victim of a witch hunt. >> many of you have recognized

that this is an effort by mitch mcconnell and his cronies to steal this election from the people of alabama, and they will not stand for it. they overcame $30 million and voted me in the primary. and now they're trying a different tactic. the other day we got a call from one big magazine that you all recognize if i say the name. i don't want to say it, but they got a call and asked me to step down from the campaign. well, i want to tell you who needs to step down. that's mitch mcconnell. >> there are four new accusers of roy moore, all tell the now familiar story of a man in his early 30s preying on mostly teenage girlgs. one of the new accusers, gena richardson, says she was just 18 years old when moore approached her, asked where she went to

school and for her phone number. when she refused to give him her phone number he call her at her school. she was summoned to the principal's office to take his call and here's how she described it. i says hello and the man on the other line said, gena, this is roy moore. i was like, what. i asked what your doing? she said i'm in trig class. he asked her out and it ended in an unwanted forceful kiss that left her scared. there are now nine women who have accused roy moore of sexual misconduct and president trump is facing mounting pressure to weigh in more forcefully. here's how sarah huckabee sanders responded today. >> the president believes that these allegations are very troubling and should be taken seriously, and he thinks that the people of alabama should make the decision on who their next senator should be. >> that was the sean hannity version of the roy moore answer.

"the washington post" puts the president's political conundrum this way. "there is consensus among senior white house aides that the president is in a bind. if he publicly calls on him to withdraw and moore defurs or worse for trump wins the race nevertheless, the president could suffer another embarrassment in alabama. heaven forbid. yet continued silence from trump may not be tenable. if he were to say he believes the women's accusations, as mcconnell and others have done it would raise comparisons with the sexual harassment accusations that he has faced and denied. let's get to all of the day's news and the president's predictament with our reporters and guests. joining us national political reporter robert costa, also moderator of "washington week" and from "the new york times," nick conforsori, eugene robinson from "the washington post," not just any columnist, a pulitzer prize-winning. john pedoris, prolific tweeter is here. heather mcgee, the president of

demos action and john heilemann, national affairs analyst. my frequent sidekick. i guess not surprising anymore, but striking to see donald trump now pretty far apart from every other republican in washington. i believe maybe ted cruz and rand paul are the only two but every other republican has abandoned the if true, then. mitch mcconnell came out and said, i believe the women. there are now nine women who have accused roy moore of almost idental encounters from the way he stalked the women to the way the actual physical encounters went down. yet the president passing up an opportunity to lead his party to a less dark place and saying, let alabama decide. >> i think that you hit it exactly on the head there. it's because he has these

looming allegations by over a dozen women. he has the "access hollywood" tape. he is sort of part of his brand is no apologies. women are things that, you know, are assets to be collected. and he understands it's off brand for him to side with women who have accused a relatively popular alabaman of assault and molestation. >> but i also think it's off his brand to be a moralizer. like he is the, come on, everybody does it. i'm -- it would be politically correct of me. i'm not saying he's saying this but in his head. an act of political correctness to give into this and be mr. heavy morphality and say roy moore should get out of this. he's in an election. what will happen, it will happen. >> is it even morality. moore is a sexual predator who preyed on teenagers. let's leave morality aside.

we're ten train stops past moral. >> we're talking about -- >> we are now sort of between the gutter and the sewer, right? if you want to stay in the gutter, you'll acknowledge he may actually win. that would be the gutter. the sewer is, let's let that happen. >> look, i am not defending it. what i'm saying is that he is not the person who goes there and says for the sake of the country, for the good of the american people, for our children, we must -- this must happen and he must step aside. that is not his voice. that would be alien to him, false to him, and he doesn't know how to do it. it would be like speaking swahili. >> it's not what he wants to do, but the pressure is going to continue to mount for him to say something. and i think at some point he may have to. i can't imagine what that will be. just to back up for a second, no one should let al franken off

the hook for this, right? that was like awful. a woman is asleep and literally defenseless and he pulls a sort of stunt which is recorded by camera in a way that is clearly meant to humiliate her. that's a bad thing. and there should be an investigation because rarely is there like one incident and one victim. >> and the photo is one thing. what she described as being -- he forced himself on her. forced his tongue into her mouth. she describes it in detail. calls him a fish-lipped guy which is not a compliment. >> he says he doesn't remember it that way. who are you going to give the benefit of the doubt? she's got the picture. >> she also says that after she rebuffed him, he was awful to her. that's the other interesting sociological novelist that they were on this trip.

he demeaned her, ran her down, made fun of her and made her pay for the fact -- he's a friend of mine, by the way. he made an advance that she resisted. he also made her feel small and little and degraded. >> and what she spoke of reminded me of some of the weinstein victims. she was afraid of professional retribution. she suffered the humiliation in the moment and the horror of the act. she was apparently asleep for the photo so that humiliation came later but the third period of humiliation was the fear of professional retribution. he was a powerful person in her industry. >> they owere on this charity tour together like entertaining the troops and he made her feel like crap. this is a bad thing. the whole story, aside from being a story of molestation is a story of kind of low rotten conduct. i see no reason to disbelief any of these details. that's what gives this story its

meat. >> i think the other thing she speaks to is that she wants to be someone who sort of is the light for someone else. she saw some of the members of congress speaking out this week and that gave her courage. my point is, why isn't the same benefit of doubt -- i'm sure she'll appear somewhere on fox news tonight. as we have here, they will believe her. why aren't all conservative hosts able to believe the accounts of nine women who have accused roy moore of sexual harassment and misconduct. >> most republicans seem to believe the women in the case of roy moore. let's separate out two special people. let's separate out these two special team. >> the two arguably most influential -- >> i'm not about to cut them a break. we have a lot of republicans who have -- the if then -- now the president and sean hannity.

they are, obviously, massively influential. i think people are wrong about trump in this case. just in this sense. i don't think it's about the fact he feels somehow like there's some conflict between the fact he has this complicated past or was accused and bragged about sexual assume tault. he thinks if he goes after roy moore he's going to lose and he'll try to force moore out and moore will give him the finger and win the senate seat. he does not want to have been humiliated twice. gone down there, fought for luther strange, lost to roy moore. now stands up, tries to take out roy moore and loses akngain. that's not an excuse. but if you're asking the psychological question, what is it that's keeping trump from speaking out against roy moore it's that trump doesn't want another loss in the loss column and he's afraid that roy moore in alabama is stronger than donald trump. >> i can answer the question why hannity and some of these others are doing this. and you can tell from what roy

moore is doing. ordinarily a republican under attack like this would say this is liberals, democrats. the democrats are going after me. moore is going directly at mcconnell. this is about mcconnell. get mcconnell out of there. >> who is way less popular in alabama than roy moore. >> that is also the brand of sean hannity. >> yes. >> it is not the democrats are secondary. >> let me bring in robert and nick. let me put this in a way it was described by someone. this is ivanka trump's final last and most important test not only as to whether or not she has any influence with her father but even whether they even talk. she says yesterday there's a special place in hell for people who prey on children. unless she doesn't believe the nine women, and she has said she sees no reason to doubt their accounts. how is it possible -- what is she doing there? if she can't walk into the oval office and say, hey, dad, trust

me. you're on the wrong side of this? >> to build on a point john heilemann was making. the president is paying attention to a lot of things. most especially the political dynamics at play in alabama. ms. trump, she is a senior adviser, but just one of many senior advisers in this white house. of course, she is the daughter of the president, and she is a confidante of him. at the same time, the president is not listening to his daughter on all political and policy questions at all times. we saw him break with her on the paris accounts and we've seen him break with her in different instances. it's not just about embarrassment. it's also the president knows alabama. some of the political advisers around him are telling him the alabama republican party is not walk away from moore so it's not going to be easy to get him out even if you try to put your elbow down and get him out. be wary of the political calculation. >> nick, what sort of steps are republicans taking in washington

to try to sort of cordon off the taint of an accused pedophile or a known sexual harasser, someone who sexually assaulted teenage girls? it's obvious the president isn't going to get involved? this is going to be a proxy war between roy moore and alabama republicans and mitch mcconnell and the establishment. where is the cauterizing taking place among national republicans? >> i think the national republicans are trying to burn away every possible bridge they can find. they've cut him off from the party committees that they try to cut off money. the senate leader mitch mcconnell has said he believes the women. asked for him to drop out. roy moore is not their candidate, and he beat them, and he doesn't really need the things they are cutting off from him. so i think in a sense that the white house press secretary is correct.

this is a political decision ultimately, and the people of alabama are going to decide what the right answer is. >> i don't know why that makes me so nervous. everyone is staying put. judging sexual misconduct in the nation's capital in a post "access hollywood" tape world. how having a "grab them in the bleep president" changes the development. also breaking, an exclusive with one of roy moore's latest accusers. and what counts as progress in a republican-controlled washington. a tax reform bill passed the house today but faces an uncertain future in the senate where at least one republican has already defected and another says she has serious reservations. i don't want to sound paranoid, but d'ya think our recent online sales success seems a little... strange? na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast." what if... "people" aren't buying these books online, but "they" are buying them to protect their secrets?!?!

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yesterday we told you one of roy moore's most enthusiastic backers, fox news anchor sean hannity, had given moore 24 hours to provide evidence of his innocence. moore did not provide any such evidence but did send him a letter. it underscored the central pillars of his defense against allegations of sexual misconduct with mostly teenage girls. one only 14 years old. he wrote, are we at a stage in american politics in which false allegations can overcome a public record of 40 years. hannity responded with this -- >> in my opinion, so serious, the people of alabama, they need to know the truth. and they've got to have all the facts that they need. that means the alabama voters can make an educated, informed, inclusive decision for their state when they go to the polls.

>> here's how "the washington post" covered it. sean hannity gave roy moore an ultimatum and then went soft. ouch. our panel is back. let me ask you something. sean hannity spends a lot of time on bill clinton's accusers. juan eata broderick on last night. sean hannity in many hours has spent time on harvey weinstein's accusers. they'll undoubtedly spend time on people accuse of sexual misconduct. >> i'm sure al franken will lead the show tonight. >> why can't anyone -- and i guess it's the same question i have about donald trump. why is someone accused of predatory sexual conduct who say republican, like roy moore or donald trump given the hands-off treatment and everyone who leans left or is a media figure crucified? >> you're asking in the context of fox news or sean hannity or both? >> both. >> sean hannity and fox news are a corrupt enterprise that have

nothing to do with -- all their behavior -- all their behavior is totally predictable. that's what they do every day on every story. this is just a particularly galling, grotesque example. you'd like to think in this realm that we'd not care about tribes, partisan tribes or ideological tribes but the whole fox news empire and its entire reason for being, its profit motive, its business model is built not again on journalism but advancing that agenda. we have tribalanism every area but if fox news is goes all the way to this area where you think it would be the one place it wouldn't be the case. >> the family friendly -- the hypocrisy to me is that, you know, i worked in a republican white house. we relied on fox news for more generous and sort of the benefit of the doubt that we keep talking about we couldn't always get other places. but i never would have fathomed that it would extend to someone

accused of sort of preying in a sexual manner on teenage girls. >> i think it goes broader than fox news. i am never one to take the spotlight off of beating up on fox news' journalism integrity, but we saw that with the white evangelical base that often before was more morallistic about the behavior, the sexual behavior of politicians. a poll out last year from pew -- i'm sorry, pri showed there was a wild swing towards excusing sexual misconduct by politicians after donald trump was revealed with the "access hollywood" tapes. and you know, a lot of evangelicals right now are really soul searching because that's a moral question. >> yeah. >> that's saying the bible said this and suddenly because donald trump, a reality host from new york said differently, i'm going to change what i think the bible says? and that's i think the degree that we've gotten to right now

where we really have to interrogate these labels that we give a lot of meaning to because it's evangelical. it's also a cultural signifier that it seems donald trump has trumped that cultural signifier. >> very much so. >> let me read you something. i want you to read. what has been most distressing is the contortions moore's supporters have put themselves in to try to defend him against the allegations. it would be one thing if they were simply saying they didn't believe the allegations but they're not. they're also given, even if it did happen rationales that suggest pede yeelia is acceptable. i know from the time in my bush white house who were allied with donald trump or working in his white house that it's about the agenda. we're so interested in the agenda. you think trump gives a hoot about the agenda? that's your excuse?

>> i want to talk about the issues, right? what are his issues? is he talking about tax cuts? health care? no. he's talking about biblical morality. that's his issue is transgenderism is coming. we're destroying the moral fiber of the country. the essential message is, it takes a pedophile to stop the moral decay of america. that's the subtext of the idea that, look, if he did it, she was 14. didn't really do it. if he did it look, maybe she was asking for it. who knows what the general thought is, but it is, you know, the situation of the country is so morally powerless that you set a thief to catch a thief. >> i don't want to gloss over this. you're absolutely right. that's their argument. that is the headline. >> he says he didn't do it, right? it's not like he's -- >> he didn't say that. he didn't say he didn't do it. >> even if he did it right?

>> he didn't remember not doing it. >> he didn't generally date teenagers, but -- >> he always got the mother's approval. >> talk about a bargain with the devil. this is a bargain with the devil that's being made here. and it is all about culture and tribalism and us versus them and, if you are on the us side, or what many evangelicals perceive as the us side, then it's okay. you're okay. you're in any circumstance better than those other guys. >> let me bring robert and nick back in on this. robert costa, can you weigh in on whether sean hannity's appearance and his statements last night were noted by the white house? do you have any reporting that suggests they president saw that last night? his position is identical to the one taken by sean hannity last night. >> they were more than noted. sean hannity is widely seen was

in the west wing and beyond the west wing in president trump's circle. someone who talks regularly to the president. sometimes several times a week. they have a close relationship. i've been told the president often watches hannity's program. and in the evening and then calls the host after the show to reflect on politics. and so he is seen in the same way that roger stone and steve bannon and tom barrack are seen as where the president is with his thinking. hannity is one of those seen as a channeler of the president. and this time, it is says the president does share hannity's view that the alabama voters should decide. this comes as he's getting pressure from ivanka trump and others. >> nick, can you weigh in on sort of where this ranks in terms of white house staff morale killers. i mean, i had heard that the low point for this staff was post-charlottesville. that was when the most number of people considered leaving to save their own personal/professional

reputation. then during the haste day fight the president had and john kelly got involved in with a gold star widow. that was a second dramatic dip in morale for the white house staff. i'm told today that some of the same things that "the washington post" has reported in the great piece by robert costa's colleagues that the president's in a bind. he simply can't be out on a limb because of the accusations against him. >> that's probably true to some extent. look. the accusations against roy moore are a step beyond. they involve children. the accusations against president trump are mostly from women who are a bit older than that. but, look, a person who has gone to work for president trump has made their peace with the idea he is credibly accused of sexual assault and was caught on tape bragging about it. if you've already made that deal and decided you can overlook that or believe it's unimportant or don't believe the accusers or can brush it off for some reason, it doesn't seem like a

huge step to go where the president is going on roy moore right now. >> can you just sort of speak to this compartmentalization they're all doing? >> i think -- yes. look, there's this compartmentalization is the order of the day in washington on all of these fronts at this point. the only way you can survive right now -- >> but if you are on the national security team, you are so worried about north korea. >> mike anton is the spokesman of the -- >> i know mike. >> wrote a piece before the election called the flight 93 election that said trump's crazy. the plane -- america's flight 93 is going down. put him behind the, you know, the wheel, i think -- >> cockpit. >> maybe he can like save us because only a lunatic can do something about the insane situation the united states is in. that's the ultimate trump theory which is america is in such

desperate shape that, again, just like roy moore is the guy who can save our -- us from total -- >> moral decay? >> like sodom and gomorrah, trump is the only person who can save america from this nosedive into a field in pennsylvania, which was a disgust analogy and horrifying and terrible, but it gives you a sense of the mind-set of a true trumpkin inside the white house. i don't mean like the republican republicans like who are, what the hell am i doing here because this is what i do for a living? >> i guess we keep asking if anybody is going to leave. obviously not. if they didn't after charlottesville. if they didn't offer up after an eight-day fight with a gold star widow. why would they after not calling for a pedophile to get out. >> we always talk about when are these people leaving? the people who are there like the power of being in the government. >> bingo. >> they like the power of being in the white house. this idea that they're always

making these difficult decisions to stay, they relish it. they may tell friends they're having a hard time but they like the power. >> they play this game and the reason they're so entertaining to cover is because whenever there is a debacle, they burn up the phone lines saying i'm part of the solution. i wasn't for that. i argued for something totally different. so i completely agree with your analysis. but they do, in terms of their external relations, seek to have it both ways. >> that's true. they do. but they're still there. >> not the first time we've seen that on a white house staff. >> i don't remember that on the white house staff i worked in. >> really? >> nobody ever saw it and tried to have it both ways? >> like think of george stephanopoulos' book about working in the first term of the clinton administration? it was about how he's like everything is crazy and everything is going terribly,

but, my god, like i'm working in the white house. this is the greatest thing ever. and it was a real reflection of that heavy experience. you were at the center of the universe. >> let me address your question. people didn't get on the phone and say i'm not part of the horrific response to katrina. i was part of the problem. people didn't say i'm not part of what's going badly in terms of the public support for the iraq war. people didn't get on the phone -- >> i've never covered an administration where i've nod not had people in the white house who called up and tried to distance themselves from things their boss was doing they didn't like. who would call up and say, you know, i'm not with the boss on this. i'm trying my best. i'm trying to make out, but karl has the president doing x, y and z. i'd rather have him -- >> and you just named the one that i think people would -- >> we have to sneak in one more break. when we come back, republicans

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i want to let everybody know coming up, we're going to have an nbc news exclusive interview with one of roy moore's latest accusers coming forward to share her story for the first time. now take a look at how some trump and clinton voters in north carolina describe the president's first year in office in just one word. >> chaotic. >> chaotic. >> chaotic. >> chaotic. >> embarrassing. >> nightmare. >> unpresidential. >> embarrassing. >> dangerous. >> these harsh views could be because the president's agenda has been largely dead on arrival on capitol hill. it makes today's gop victory on tax reform notable and perhaps fleeting. let's get right to garrett haake on capitol hill. the gop, house gop leaders,

reason to celebrate today but it could be a fleeting victory with republican senators coming out against it and more than a few wild cards, right? >> that's right. once again, the ball is in the senate's court. it's anybody's guess what they'll do with it. the mark-sup is going on behind me. there was this palpable sense of relief today after the vote. republicans were shaking hands. they were taking pictures with the president, of course, before the vote. this real sense they've gotten some momentum here, gotten something done. once again, walk a couple hundred yards to the other side and in the senate, this debate about the inclusion of the individual mandate repeal. johnson is upset about some of the business tax provisions. this process will almost certainly slow down on the senate side. it's a question of if they have

enough moment oum to push it through. >> garrett haake, thank you. john, what is the process for getting something meaningful done on tax reform? >> i think it's pretty good except for the question of whether some of the republicans, including the possible new republican roy moore comes to town with an interesting in screwing mcconnell and trump if he thinks trump is insufficiently supportive of him. and you have these weird cases. john mccain who is, obviously, not in great shape. jeff flake and bob corker both whom are not going to run again. i don't know -- wouldn't be a deeply personal act to destroy a bill. but they have no loyalty to the party now or to the president. and if they think that they can -- if they feel that they don't like some provisions of the bill, why do they vote for it? >> the president and the party obviously don't feel like they have any loyalty to them. they're going to vote their conscience.

>> it would be weird for jeff flake not to vote for the tax reform bill. having says that, jeff flake's political career in washington is basically over. and he has a different set of calculations. >> this isn't just actually, you know, an interfamily spat. this is a tax bill that's enormously unpopular, right? less than 1 out of every 4 americans actually supports this bill, and it's obvious why. it's a huge giveaway to healthy people at a time people see the rich are getting richer. might increase taxes. now the senate is going to do something unpopular which is go after obamacare. we've done something to deserve our taxpayer money for a day. the only people it's popular with are the republican donors whom chris collins, congressman from new york, said basically republican donors are saying if you don't cut my taxes, which is

what i send you there to do. this is an unpopular agenda at a time of record inequality. >> george w. bush passed his tax cut with -- max baucusbaucus, his partner i congress. i have to disagree with shawn. i don't like to disagree with john about republicans because he knows them better than i do but i look at jeff flake and think -- jeff flake is a guy who doesn't want a giant government and doesn't like big deficits. he's now liberated politically. i think on principle you look at this bill and say giant tax breaks for rich people and a huge ballooning $1.5 trillion. a giant expansion of the deficit. for people like if you put together the deficit hawks who genuinely have always been worried about deficits, good reasons to vote against it. if you put those people, that category of people, it's not a

huge number, but it's enough. in a 50/50 senate where you have to get just 50, you talk about those people plus now the people who have objection on the health care thing. i thought the tax cut bill, i thought before they added the health care issue into it, i thought it had a decent chance of flying through. >> i disagree with that. >> democrats were making no headway against it. >> let me let you respond. >> the obamacare mandate, which is the only thing that would be removed from this bill, is unpopular. obamacare, as a term may now be popular but mandate is unpopular -- >> but kicking 13 million people off health care because of rising premiums -- >> they're not kicking them off the rolls. you are not -- you are making it no longer a matter of a penalty they have to pay if they don't go into the system. >> 13 million fewer people with insurance. >> sit down and talk to a tax accountant who really knows the tax code, somebody who really knows it and they'll all tell

you -- >> i even talked to my accountant. >> this cannot end well. you cannot do this to the tax codes in like a month and a half and expect there not to be all sorts of unintended consequences. >> let me ask you something. does the trump base give a damn about tax reform? >> that's the question republicans are facing in congress. they spent a decade talking as if mainstream republicans following the reagan model pushing for low taxes. they aren't sure if they want grievance plus tax cuts. they don't know how to handle it in the same way trump does, the president does. they're moving forward with their traditional agenda. democrats i'm talking to are salivating at the chance to run against republicans as the party of wall street. >> nick, let me get you in on this question of, you know, two americas, two republican parties, two agend as. i've spent a lot of time with

jump voters. they talk about nafta. they don't like the premiums they pay but they don't want obamacare to go away. they working class voters who do not stand to gain much in this republican tax reform bill. could you sort of give me the brief sort of republican on republican tension in terms of crafting tax legislation that does anything for republicans who are struggling more than the president is with the trump base voters? >> if you can find me five trump voters who put tax reform as the number one issue for which they voted for donald trump, i'll give you 100 bucks. it has nothing to do with why they voted for him, and it's not, as john pointed out, it's not a tax reform bill. and the tell is the inher tense tax. getting rid of the inheritance tax has nothing to do with making it more simple. it's allowing welalthy people t pass on their assets to their

soon to be welalthy kids. it is true the mandate is not popular but the way this works for tax reform or the tax cut, i should say, is that it gets rid of subsidies by getting rid of the mandate, and i don't believe getting rid of subsidies is going to end up being popular. >> we'll see about that. the mandate is unpopular. we know that. it polls unpopular no matter how you slice it. and the fact of the matter if the republican party is not a tax-cutting party, then it literally has no definition. it was two things. >> oh, that's going to be it? you think the pedophile killed the party? >> it was the party of law and order and smaller government and low taxes. >> john, they won. john, they won. >> they won --

>> i think the republican party you remember still exists? >> no, i'm saying this is the real testament. donald trump thinks it's exists. i think the real test -- >> real test in -- >> john and i are like bruce willis in "the sixth sense." we're dead. we just don't know it. when we come back, an exclusive interview interview with one of the women accusing roy moore of sexual misconduct. that's next. i accept i don't conquer

the mountain like i used to. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but whatever trail i take, i go for my best. so if there's something better than warfarin, i'll go for that too. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve

or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily... ...and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i'm still going for my best. and for eliquis ask your doctor about eliquis. ♪ one of roy moore's accusers is speaking out today in an exclusive interview with nbc news. tina johnson is one of the nine women who have come forward to accuse moore of sexual misconduct. according to johnson, moore groped her while he was her attorney in a custody case 26 years ago. here she shares her memory of the encounter in vivid detail. >> as soon as we hit the door,

he was real flirtatious, coming on -- the whole time. he was in there forever, it seems. i was scared to say anything about it to him negative. i was afraid of the outcome of the custody. so i just -- went with the flow. and let him flirt, and he just constantly commenting on my looks, and how pretty i was and asked how old i was, and he was kind of surprised i was 20-something, god, i don't remember how old i was, but he was kind of -- got quiet a little bit and then -- you don't look that old, but -- and then he just proceeded to ask me out, and i told him i was married. and he just -- continued flirting. talking about my eyes.

how pretty i was. the whole scene was bizarre. just so bizarre. it was -- asking me about my children, how old they were. they had nothing to do with that. and i had two small children with my husband then. just bizarre. the whole -- he was hyper -- just really -- it was weird. very uncomfortable. and then -- we eventually got up to leave, and as we did, when i -- my mother went first and then when i got up and went out he grabbed my behind. just -- hard. i was in shock, and i was so humiliated and, sickening. i didn't do anything, and that's what i regret. i just got out of there.

speeded up a little bit and got out of there as quick as i could. he grabbed it so hard it was almost like fondling, i mean it was such a hard -- i could even feel the indents of his fingers. you sgloe it was a graknow? it was grab. and i was so humiliated and sickening. that's what i regret. i just got out of there. speeded up a little bit and got out of there as quick as i could and then he went on to montgomery. i -- i just hated it. i didn't, you know -- you couldn't say anything. who's going to believe you when -- >> so what if he did it. they wouldn't have cared. they don't care if he touch as 14-year-old. they don't care. >> that was tina johnson. she is the ninth woman to come forward and accuse roy moore of

sexual misconduct. the rest of that interview will be seen on "nbc nightly news" tonight and she will appear tomorrow morning on "megyn kelly today." i want to end where we started, with al franken's -- not accuser. the victim. he's not denying what she accuses him of. what both women seem to have in common, in the moment, some sort of paralysis that is a result of the shame, the shock, and the horror that they'd been violated. >> that is the absolute norm, and it's because of a culture of power and toxic masculinity. because of the kind of reaction that roy moore is having. because of the kind of reaction that harvey weinstein has had, frankly, the clinton machine had around his accusers. the idea is, attacks woman.

and give wen have so rarely seen the kind of accountability we are just now seeing, post-harvey weinstein hv. we did not see accountability with the man sitting in the white house right now. there is no reason why women ho have had their first instinct to be i'm going to continue to risk everything to speak out in a system that's stacked against me, and what's so powerful about this need-to moment is exactly what was said. that there is strength in numbers. that there is a sense that you're seeing powerful men be held accountability. yu obviously not the most powerful man in the free world and that is painful to millions of women, but it has changed that calculus and i hope it continues to gene, all of these women coming out. i think one of the silver linings, if you will, has been that for the most part, women, and now men also, understand that -- that there's no -- there's no gain for these women.

there's no glory in coming out and telling your story. >> exactly. yes. >> and we're not saying in the history of time no one has ever told -- i'm just say, the vast majority of women deserve the benefit of the doubt, and do you think we'll ever get to a point where the president says, i believe the women? >> no. and i just don't think that's donald trump. i don't think -- >> even those nine women. >> i don't think he'll actually get there. he'll have a lot of pressure to get there. certainly in this case. i think he probably won't. and i don't know if he's ever going to address the subject, because what standing does donald trump have to address, you know, sexual harassment and sexual assault, except do say, i'm sorry. and he's never going to say that. >> nick, can you weigh in? there's irony that this moment -- we lost nick. heilemann, you'll always do. just kidding. my first choice. trying to work more people in. can you weigh in on the irony we're having a me, too moment

with the president and -- >> there may be, when the history is written, there may be a causal relationship to it, that heather talked about that. talked about the pain. obviously women are a rising political power in our country. they have been the majority of voters for a long time, but things are obviously changing in a good way. slowly, too slowly, but they're changing in a good way and i think some of what's happening here is, there is this residual pain for donald trump having not had to pay an electoral price, despite being an admitted grabber and all of that stuff, it's still out there, and as the tectonic plates are shifting, the resistance movement led by a lot of women. the women's march. all the stuff that happened in the wake of trump's election, this is maybe one of those artifacts or results that's a positive element of the backlash to donald trump, especially among bringing out a more activist, more empowered, forceful, vocal set of women in

the frill sphere. >> apolitical sphere and social sfooenchts and pa. >> part of the conversation, vast majority of men don't do this. vast majority of congress -- there is a problem but not the majority of men or women who are victims, but shining a light on it at this moment in a disproportionate moment even if it is certainly seems to be the right medicine. >> there needs to be a general long-term reckoning that something happened in this country in the late 1990s when there was a decision made by one of the two major political parties to close ranks against somebody who was credibly accused not only of sexual misconduct in the workplace but other sexual peccadillos and they closed ranks -- you know, in his favor on the grounds that this was a political assault against him, and we had some kind of a delay. talking about bill clinton. there was -- >> well, he was impeached and saved because no democrat broke ranks to vote against him.

and my -- i think that something happened where it's -- some kind of justice was delayed. there was some change in the atmosphere in the american culture that, that led -- first of all, made it possible for donald trump to be elected. clinton softens the ground for trump. but i think something -- something was delayed. >> all right. we're going to -- >> before clinton? >> there is -- this is a conversation with no end point. we'll keep it going. my thanks to are, gene, heather, john, that's it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" stats right now with the fabulous katy tur in for chuck. >> if it is thursday, a democratic senator is the latest powerful man to be accused of sexual misconduct. >> tonight, senator al franken is accused of forcibly kissing and groping a woman in 2006. >> i'm doing it now, because it's different. there's strength in