and my -- i think that something happened where it's -- some kind of justice was delayed. there was some change in the atmosphere in the american culture that, that led -- first of all, made it possible for donald trump to be elected. clinton softens the ground for trump. but i think something -- something was delayed. >> all right. we're going to -- >> before clinton? >> there is -- this is a conversation with no end point. we'll keep it going. my thanks to are, gene, heather, john, that's it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" stats right now with the fabulous katy tur in for chuck. >> if it is thursday, a democratic senator is the latest powerful man to be accused of sexual misconduct. >> tonight, senator al franken is accused of forcibly kissing and groping a woman in 2006. >> i'm doing it now, because it's different. there's strength in numbers.

congresswoman jackie speier has come out. >> it doesn't matter when it happened. it matters that it did happen. plus, roy moore says allegations against him are purely political. >> this is an effort by mcconnell and his cronies to steal this election from the people of alabama. >> we'll talk to gloria allred, the attorney for one of judge moore's accusers. and -- in focus. a stinging review of president trump. even from his own voters. >> that one fooled. >> loose cannon. >> crazy. >> this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. good evening. i'm katy tur in new york if nor chuck todd and welcome to "mtp daily." the country is facing a moral crisis. and some might say it is about

time. women have arguably never felt freer in blowing the whistle on predatory or inappropriate behavior and the political leaders are reeling because of it. right now both sides of the aisle are confronting two very different crises, and two very different kinds of explosive allegations. senate republicans are desperately trying to figure out how to deal with an increasingly toxic situation in alabama. as moore accusers come forward with allegations that senate candidate roy moore pursued them when they were teenagers. national republican leaders say moore's accusers should be believed, and he should quit the race. but we have not heard that from president trump. he has his own history involving allegations of sexual assault. this afternoon the white house said he believes that if the allegations against moore are true, moore should quit. which begs the question -- what further proof does he need? even his own daughter says she believes moore's accusers.

despite that, white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders was clear that he's not calling for moore to get out. >> ivanka trump says that she has no reason not to believe the women that have come forward. does the president disagree with her position? >> look, the president's not disagreeing with anybody. he's saying he finds the allegations to be extremely troubling. he doesn't know more than you do other than this should be taken very serious land the people of alabama should be the ones to make the decision whether or not to support roy moore. >> moore denies he's about theed inappropriately and speaking earlier at an event, he dug in. >> this is an effort by mitch mcconnell and his cronies to steel this election from the people of alabama, and they will not stand for. i want to tell you who needs to step down. that's mitch mcconnell. >> meanwhile, democrats are

reeling, because senator al franken today was accused of kissing a woman without her consent while they were on a usa tour. l leeann tweeden toasted this on the website showing franken seemingly groping her while she was sleeping. she sfopoke to soupporter s suph that photo. >> the fact he thought he could get away with it, that it was okay, and that it was funny. nothing like that is ever funny. is it funny if he does that to your sister, your daughter, your wife? that's just -- all of those things -- >> guys, moore and franken are facing two very different sets of allegations. they're two very different people with two very different reactions to their accusers. and they're from two very different states, and two very different political

circumstances. representing two very different parties. but the leaders of those parties now have to figure out the same thing. what do they do? calling for an ethics investigation into franken's conduct coming from the senate's top republican mitch mcconnell. its top democrat, chuck schumer. even franken's senate colleague in minnesota. democrat amy klobuchar. franken welcomes an investigation. roy moore seized on the allegations against franken. slamming mitch mcconnell for seemingly not calling on franken to quit, what mcconnell is calling on roy moore to do, along with pretty much everyone else in the gop leadership. everyone, that is, except for the president. let's bring in a couple nbc news colleagues. kasie hunt, capitol hill correspondent, coving all the franken developments today and von hilliard covering the moore campaign in montgomery, alabama. >> kasie, franken released two

statements today. the first made it seem as if he might have seemed this would blow over. is is that a correct reading? >> reporter: i'm not sure if he necessarily thought it would blow over, although perhaps i'm overestimating what they might interpret the climate to be, but the first statement was very short. it did say he was sorry. it said that he remembered the incident with leeann tweeden differently than she did and also said that the picture you showed was intended to be funny, and that, i think is what a lot of people viewed as problematic. so he put out a second much lengthier statement just about 90 minutes afterward, part of that focused on the photo and he said, "i don't know what was in my head when i took that picture and it doesn't matter. there's no excuse. i look at it now and i feel disgusted with myself. it isn't funny. it's completely inappropriate. it's obvious how leeann would feel violated why in picture and

what's more how millions of other women would feel violated by it as well." that was an attempt to grapple a little with the damage he did in putting out the first version of this statement, and, you know, it's clear that democrats don't know how to handle this particularly. senator cloklobuchar, you mentioned, normally walks past our cameras when leaving the capitol. she went out of her way, winding through the capitol visitors's center, a mammoth underground building, to escape the cameras and drove away quickly when approached by one of our reporters. chuck schumer was supposed to have a press conference today at 12:30. that was canceled. obviously they've all come out saying they will support this ethics committee investigation, but we've not seen al franken today. he didn't vote on the senate floor today either. so you sort of laid out clearly the differences between these two cases, but, you know, it's

very clear to me through the reporting that i have been doing over the last week or two, and all of the women that i have talked to is that this is not a partisan issue. this is something that occurs for women in all walks of political life. regardless of which side of the aisle they stand on, and, you know that can quickly get lost when we start to talk about leadership of one party or the other -- clearly we can judge and report on what those people do and how they handle these allegations differently, but the fundamental change that we're seaing here is that women across the board are feeling freer to speak out, and you heard that from leeann today in her press conference saying 11 years ago, she was told, in the same circle at al franken. saying you'll never work in the town again. she works in los angeles. never work, kind of like the

hollywood entertainment business again. she was never a woman with a career in politics. a powerful career in broadcasting and now felt able to take on this powerful man in politics. we still do not have a lot of women here in washington willing to publicly say the things that have happened to them and i've been on the receiving end of stories from both parties and there is a reason for that, and it has to do with how many women are in positions of power here in washington. >> and we'll see if that changes with these revelations, or as more revelations come forward about people across the spectrum. vaughn, senator franken's response is a lot different than roy moore. he's apologized, welcomes an investigation. still that picture of him groping, a tweet, in. moore, on the other hand, has not apologized at all. is attacking the accusers saying that they are a bunch of politically motivated liars.

what is going to happen next? in alabama? >> reporter: katy, we need to be very clear. this is my eighth day on the ground. eight days ago the "washington post" first published those allegations and eight days without roy moore being able to answer the simple question, have you ever touched, kissed or dated a teenaged girl. eight days later, roy moore has still not been able to answer that. he just left a press conference here one hour ago in birmingham. reporters attempted to ask these questions yet again, but instead of returning a political campaign, he is essentially running a campaign here in alabama to delegitimize these women accusers. it's important, katy, to name these nine names. before i do that, we have made an earnest attempt to talk with roy moore about these allegations. myself, and nbc to sit down and have that conversation, roy moore has yet to do that. he hasn't done an interview for a week ever since the sean hannity interview. at the press conference he said a reporter hasn't tried to ask

him a policy question is flat out false. roy moore has nod made this campaign about issues. we're four weeks away. he hasn't had a conversation about the economy, about the military. just a press conference with about 20 people in in cthey talked about gay terrorists, anti-republicans like mccain and romney. you have debbie wesson gibson, beverly young nelson, tina harvey johnson, kelly harrison thorpe. gina richardson, becky gray. katy, for eight days we've tried to ask roy moore about these specific allegations and other women and roy moore, u.s. senate candidate from alabama refused to answer that. >> vaughn hilliard, you're right. a simple question and he hasn't given a simple answer about it. thank you. go to our panel. democratic pollster and msnbc news political analyst, also a national political reporter at politico and susan del percio is

with us. susan, watching your face as vaughn was talking and you looked disgusted. >> well, of course. the whole story is disgusting, and it's interesting, vaughn mentioned that roy moore wanted to talk about policy. let's not forget that three, four weeks ago when he was in washington, d.c., he wouldn't take any questions then on his record, because it is so atrocious. so now that we have these allegations, it's not surprising he has nothing to say. but these women have gone through so much, and continue to go through so much. every time their names are read and i understand why, why von did vaughn did it, it is them having to go through not only their experience, but the current experience in their hometowns, and that is really difficult and one of the things that will probably lead to a change, probably in some form of voter turnout among women in alabama. >> remember, it's a small town. people know who these women are. >> exactly. they know who their children are. >> on the record.

they know their families, kids, all that. the white house today had a press briefing. sarah huckabee sanders saying that donald trump isn't going to weigh in on this. that this is, should be up to the alabama voters. is that problematic for the leader of the republican party? not weigh in on, on a candidate inappropriately accused of touching children? >> short answer, yes. long answer, the white house has been trying to distance itself from this story for a long time and were happy to have president trump in a different continent entirely, different time zone entirely when all of this was breaking but they're trying not to be caught up in this. the entire rest of the republican party distanced itself far more from roy moore than the white house and president trump has. he has not gone on-camera to talk about it. he's avoiding questions. the reality, he doesn't want to infuriate his base around a lot of moore voters of trump voters. >> is it that or has his own accusers, problematic to say i believe these accusers and you

should believe mine? >> of course. that's one of the reason the president doesn't want to answer the questions or be in the same room when the questions are talked about. the white house doesn't want this to become a white house story and are trying to be as non-controversial as possible saying, let's move on from this. >> and an alabama senate poll has jones, the democrat, up 50%. moore at 42%. an eight-point spread there. how can you have it both ways, though if you're the white house? they, on the one hand say they don't dispute what ivanka said. she believes the accusers, but they're not going to weigh in? >> be careful about what ivanka said. she chose her words carefully. she said, i have no reason to doubt what these women are saying. she didn't say she believes them. >> are you saying she's somehow -- >> choosing words carefully. then you have to answer the question, why don't you believe the people, the women, who said they were groped, kissed, against their will, in exactly

the fashion that donald trump described on that tape, and i think she doesn't want to answer that question. >> what is your reaction to senator franken? >> first, obviously, when the news came out, pretty stubbed. i don't know him extremely well. i've met him a couple of times. i think the second statement, he's done something very few men in this situation have done. the vast majority, the dispute, quibble, argue with the women about it. he pretty much took full responsibility. admitted what he had done. the words susan used to describe it, embarrassed and disgusted in himself and will cooperate fully, and in an ethics investigation. >> took two times to get there. >> absolutely. >> if it was artwork, shouldn't say that, but wasn't a photograph, would he have been this -- >> i said, the second statement. so i agree with you but i think we're operating in an environment, where the white house is being very careful.

they know women are going to be believed. if any statement comes out that provokes those accusers to come out and speak again, i believe those women would get a very different hearing in this environment than they did in october of 2016. >> and some still filing a lawsuit. still out there. >> right. >> what happens to prank franke though? you have the picture, shows him acting inappropriately. a photo all over social media and newscasts. never going to go away. can he survive this with an apologetic statement and then a -- an ethics investigation? >> well, look -- >> should he survive this? >> i don't know whether he should or not. only because -- you know, he's been elected by the people of minnesota. senate has an ethics process for any kind of violation of -- of certain rules and regulations or laws. right somewhere we can all agree behavior is despicable. no question about that. i think there's probably a

bigger pot boiling in washington as kasy talked about in her reporting beneath the surface here that this story is much bigger than al franken. today it's all about al franken, but what we've seen across this country, and this is the benefit of #metoo. women are feeling stronger, more comfortable in speaking out about this. people, i think men and women, are believing them more. than they had been before. i think that's positive. whether he can survive it, i don't know. i think it's going to depend on how quickly they get into this hearing and whattals happens. >> they had the investigation. either more women potentially could show up. one -- and then something to go forward on. or we just have the evidence sits in front of us. so the investigation itself, i don't know what it's going to do. where it differs so much from the roy moore scenario, he was elected without his voters knowing about this. this came up after he was ele

elected. whereas, roy moore can be elected in alabama aeveryone knowing exactly about the accusations made. >> >> moore is seizing on the franken allegation. in a tweet, basically going after mitch mcconnell in the tweet saying when al franken is accused, mitch says let's investigation. in alabama, zero allegations, 100% rejected, moore talking, mitch, moore must quit immediately or be expelled. does he have any leg to stand on with this? >> obviously going against mitch mcconnell for plilt purpoolitic purposes. reality, there is a photo of al franken before he was a senate, we don't have that of roy moore but we have women going on the record using their names. and the yearbook, gloria allred has, with the signature of roy moore. he's playing a political game and doing whatever he can to rile up supporters against the establishment. he's not actually having a

conversation about sexual assault. >> both accusations are awful. remember, roy moore is accused of touching a child inappropriately. and multiple women, girls, teenagers, say he acted inappropriately towards them. guys, stick around. we're going to come back to you later in the hour. up next, we'll hear from one of roy moore's accusers. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program,

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welcome back. a total of nine women made various sexual assault charges. roy moore denies all of them. this woman spoke to nbc news in an exclusive interview today. >> went to his office to sign

custody papers and as soon as we got to the door he was real flirtatious, coming on the whole time, and we were in there forever it seems. and then -- we -- eventually got up to leave, and as we did, when i -- my mother went first and then when i got up and went out he grabbed my behind. just -- hard. that's what he'd done. >> much more on this exclusive, of this exclusive interview tonight on "nbc nightly news." plus tina johnson live tomorrow on "megyn kelly today." we'll be right back with attorney gloria allred who is representing wuone of the other moore accusers. (♪) it all starts with a wish. the lincoln wish list event is here.

sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down and a complementary first months payment. as you know, the "washington post" has brought some scurrilous, false, charges -- not charges, allegations -- when i have infatically denied time and time again. they're not only untrue but they

have no evidence to support them. >> welcome back. alabama republican senate candidate roy moore once again denying allegations of sexual misconduct but it's not just the six women who have spoken to the "washington post." a total of nine women made various accusations against moore, and he denies them all. joining me now is gloria allred, the attorney for beverly young nelson. one of those women accusing judge moore. gloria, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you for inviting me. >> good to have you. roy's lawyer is questioning the authenticity of the signature in your client's yearbook. how did you in fact authenticate it was roy moore's signature? >> well, we're not going comment on that. accept to say that we have offered to have an independent expert examine the yearbook and that signature and the remainder of his writing in addition to

his signature, in the event that the senate select committee on ethics or the senate judiciary committee, katy, agrees to have the hearing we requested. wherein our client can take the oath and swear to tell the ru truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help her god and allow herself to be cross-examined by any member of the senate committee or committees that choose to have a hearing. in addition we would like those -- here those committees to subpoena roy moore to also do the same and answer questions -- >> he's not a senator right now. . that's correct. he's not a senator. he's seeking to be a senator. i spoke to a former united states senator. actually yesterday. and i asked the senator whether or not the committees could have a hearing even though he is not yet a senator, and may never be

a senator. and this particular, former united states senator said, absolutely. of course, they could have a hearing. this is politics. they can do whatever they want to do. so, yes, they could have a hearing. i've asked them to do that within two weeks. that was two weeks from -- last monday of this week. if they don't have a hearing, then i will have more to say about our plan b. at that time. at this point, i have no reason to believe that that -- what he wrote in the yearbook is anything but his signature. >> does your client, beverly nelson, remember him signing it? >> she remembers -- well, she remembers being with him. it was on the counter. she alleges that he took it, that he signed it and she was thrilled that he had signed it, because, as far as she knew, he

was a d.a. and that was an important position, so she saw him sign it? >> i don't believe at the time she had a clue whether he was an assistant d.a. or a d.a., but he signed it, she took it. as far as she knows, i mean, there's no reason for her to think it's anybody's but his signature. >> but did she see him sign it? >> you know, i don't -- i haven't asked her if she saw him, but we did describe what happened that evening in question. that what she alleges was that she put it on the counter. that i think he asked to sign -- or that he did sign it. that's all. >> i ask this, because it seems you're not 100% sure that it is his signature, and if you're not 100% sure that it is his signature, why would you show it at a press conference? >> well, why would -- you know, why does anybody doubt that it is his signature? >> well, roy moore's campaign and roy moore himself is saying

it's not his signature. >> well, he has a motive to say that 3. and let him prove that it's not. we have offered to provide it to an independent expert at the hearing, which would be held in washington, and they -- we have allowed it to be examined. >> have you gotten any response? >> the truth out there -- they have not provided me any evidence to suggest that it is not his signature. all they've done is make this bold assertion that it's not, but they have not provided any evidence whatsoever to -- support their assertion. of course they have a motive to make that assertion, because he is denying -- first he denied even knowing her. then he compounded that, or confused that whole issue by saying something to the effect that, oh.

well, she appeared before him in a divorce case. and apparently that does not appear to be accurate either. >> when you say it doesn't appear to be accurate, so he did not preside over her divorce case? he did not? >> well -- to the best of my knowledge, at this point, and i will say that i have spoken to her attorney, and her attorney, meaning her attorney at the time of the divorce, has asserted that, not only did she not appear at a hearing before judge moore, but there was no hearing in the case. it was set for hearing, before another judge, or by another judge, but the case was ultimately dismissed, and there was no hearing. that -- and this attorney for her, asserted that he doesn't

think beverly even knew who the judge was. >> are you saying that roy moore signed -- >> a dismissal order. >> signed the documents but she never saw him or appeared in front of him? before him? >> yes. because what happened, katy, was, that her attorney filed for a dismissal of the case, because the parties had reconciled. so there was no hearing, because in alabama, when that happens, no hearing is necessary, and what happened was, judge moore signed the order of dismissal. under alabama rules, i am told, it is not necessary if the case is dismissed for there to be a hearing, and for the parties to present themselves at the hearing. >> if independent analysis shows that is not his signature, does that disprove your client's

allegations? >> no. it doesn't. and that's a hypothetical, that i have no reason to believe what happened. that it is not his signature, but, again, we're -- happy to present it to an independent examiner. >> why would you not do it outside of a, outside of a senate committee? why would you just not hand it over to an independent operator who can have that examined? why does it have to go before the senate? that doesn't really make sense to me, or anybody in the house? >> well, it does make sense to me. that all evidence that supports or disputes her claims be presented to a senate hearing where the parties testify under oath. i think everyone should ask roy moore, are you willing to testify under oath at a senate

hearing? are you going to ask for that hearing to be held as i have requested? so that you can testify under oath? and be cross-examined. >> seems there's a bit of a standoff. the roy moore campaign -- there's a standoff i don't see being resolved soon. roy moore wants you to hand over the year boosbook to examine th signature. you want him to appear before a congressional committee. i don't see that happening. seems we'll be in the same spot a week from now, ms. allred. >> you know, i don't know what it feels like but i can tell you, this is the plan, and we think he should accept our challenge to appear before a senate hearing. there is talk that if he is elected, and i don't know if it's true, that the senate ethics committee would then have a hearing. and as i say, i'm led to understand that this could hatch even before he's elected. so right now he's made two

claims, katy. one, apparently, and reportedly, that she appeared before him. that appears not to be the case. so we've knocked down that, what i'll call, complete red herring, and now i think you should have to explain, why did he say that if, in fact, the record does not support that? what did he base that claim on? because according to her attorney at the time it never happened. and so now we go to the signature issue. we're willing to have it examined, and now let's see if the senate is going to conduct that hearing. that's important. we need -- you know, even as important as -- >> glorria -- >> maybe nmore important, whethr he's going to testify under oath. >> gloria allred, thank you for joining us. we appreciate your time. >> thank you. still ahead, one year later, are we seeing signs of buyers' remorse from some trump voters? keep it here. .

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still ahead, voters in north carolina, democrats and republicans told us what they think of president trump.

♪ we are the driven... the dedicated... the overachievers. we know our best investment is in ourselves. we don't take no for an answer. we fight for what we want. even for the things that were once a given. going to college... buying a home... and not being in debt for it for the rest of our lives. but we're only as strong as our community. who inspires and pushes us to go further than we could ever go alone. sofi. get there sooner. welcome back. north carolina voted for president trump in 2016. but a year later, voters there have some harsh words of his performance so far. peter hart, democratic from "wall street journal" polling

team asked a group of voters for a word or phrase to describe the president, and here's what 12 north carolinians said last night. >> incompetent. >> babbling fool. >> child-like. >> troubled. >> loose cannon. >> despicable. >> bold. >> immature narcissist. >> crazy. >> embarrassing. >> ignorant. >> fights back. >> of the 12 people in that focus group, five were trump voters, but even though those trump supporters say they're disappointed in the president's behave are and lack of accomplishments, none are ready to pull their support. >> still optimistic. still have a lot of time to prove something. still better than having a career politician in there, but he has had a hard road, because everybody hates him. not just the democrats, and not just the republicans. >> you've been pretty tough on him, too. >> yeah. i expect a lot out of him. >> joining me now, the man

behind interviews, peter hart. conducted that focus group on behalf of emory university. thanks for being here. >> thanks, katy. >> i want to play a little more sound from your focus group last night. listen. >> i thought his ideas appealed to me, since he's been in there he's embarrassed me by his behavior. >> how? >> he behaves unpresidential. i can't imagine how they let him build a country club lit alone be in one because we don't behave that way. >> he doesn't facilitate working together. he comes out with grandiose ideas with no follow-through. >> these are trump voters. for that woman to say i don't know how they let him build a country club let alone be in one, but surprisingly they're still optimistic? >> the optimistic part is they look at the economy, see things improved on that front, but on

the personal front after a year, this is a man that's in terrible trouble and in terrible trouble for one reason. he's brought it on himself. he's his own worst enemy. and that's become the major problem. the tweeting has just driven these people nuts. >> is it just the tweeting or is it everything? >> it is everything. it is a sense that, not only the language, the way in which he goes after everybody. it is the sense that he has no allies. when they talk about what they like about other presidents, they say, well, i like the humor of reagan. i like the way that lincoln united the country. i like the sense of competence that -- that obama brought. so each of these presidents have something, but with donald trump at this stage of the game, they just have so much -- so many questions about who he is and more importantly, does he get

the grandeur of the office? can he translate this? >> struck by donald trump making most things all about himself, saying, me, me, me a lot. talk about himself in third person. did that strike them? >> oh, it did. it hit them very hard, and, again, as you play that marvellous clip of annie, she talks in such personal terms. i said, why did you vote for him? >> she said, i had hope. i felt he could be presidential, and everything that she cease, as you can say, didn't come across to her. it just wasn't there, and the other respondents who voted for him haven't given up on him, but they say he has to learn, he has to change. he has to be different. and it's not based on the russian probe. it is really based on the basis of how he's acting and how he's behaving.

>> hmm. you also asked about roy moore. i know they're not alabama voters, but certainly has built up a national profile. listen to what your respondents said. >> unbelievable. >> trouble. >> scum. >> scapegoat. democrat playbook. >> disgusting. >> needs to step asirchltde. >> pedophile. >> a new poll from fox saying roy moore has 42%. jones 50% among alabama voters. what do you make of that? >> obviously, things have changed, and everything's upside-down. we're a ways away from the election. so it's too hard to say how it will play out, but what you can see from these north carolina voters, they look and they say, why is this man on the ballot? and a lot of them didn't know anything about roy moore, and that's important to recognize. that not everybody is there, but certainly in alabama, it's a

cause that people start to say, this isn't our kind of candidate, and can you see it and you can feel it. >> peter hart, we appreciate it. thanks for being here and nice job with that focus group. got interesting answers. >> thanks, katy. we'll be right back. how do you chase what you love with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis? do what i did. ask your doctor about humira. it's proven to help relieve pain and protect joints from further irreversible damage in many adults.

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republicans took a big step forward today in achieving one of their big legislative goals. this afternoon the house passed its version of the tax bill by a vote of 227-205. no democrats voted in support of the bill, and 13 house republicans voted against it. the majority of whom had voiced concerns about the elimination of state and local tax deductions. the senate, of course, has a different tax bill with its own slew of challenges. senate republicans have complicated matters by inserting language into their tax bill that would repeal obamacare's individual mandate. and don't forget if a tax bill does pass the senate, it sets up a conference committee where the two chambers would have to work out their differences. we'll be right back. you nervous? ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth.

if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. welcome back. it is time for "the lid." the panel is back with us, joel benson, gabe -- i'm not going to

get your name right. d'b d'benedeti, and susan del percio. guys, gloria allred was on with me a moment ago and it seemed she had a difficult time answ answering what should be a very simple question. are you 100% sure that the signature in that yearbook is roy moore's signature. and it should be easy, because if you're going to bring a piece oe of evidence out and you're not sure about it, you could possibly throw not only your victim's testimony or accusations into question, but everybody's. >> it absolutely is a very different -- difficult proposition there. and, you know, when we look at "the washington post" stories that came out, they were documented. they were thoroughly vetted. and they had to be, because they knew it had to stand up to a certain scrutiny. in this case, you have an attorney representing a client that really only has to have a good faith basis to believe her and bringing her forward and that her story was there. so i think you raise a very good point about why would you jeopardize everything else? >> but i don't know why we would

dismiss this as some kind of strategic move on her part. she may very well know it. i don't think she has to say it right now. you've got roy moore himself saying, well, this might be a forgery. i'm sorry, if you're in your 30s and you signed a 16 or 17-year-old's yearbook, you would know it. and he's not saying, this is a forgery. >> and you woulds s also know i you did not sign a 16 or 17-year-old's yearbook. >> if you never signed it, you would know it. you would say, i've never signed a kid's yearbook. >> that is a good point. i'm a little thrown off about why she's calling for the senate to have a hearing where they both testify under oath and they can hand over the yearbook in order to get an independent analysis. it feels like it's just muddying the waters. >> well, but, again, i feel like there could be some strategy and game playing. she would love to get roy moore under oath before she goes to trial, why not? >> of course. >> so i think there's some tactical play you have to put into context there. he's avoiding everything and

she's trying to figure out a way to get another lead headline out of it. >> and while she's not coming at this from a purely political perspective, let's be real, that moore is not going to agree to this no matter what, under almost any circumstances. so now she and the accusers and even moore's political opponents get to say, what is he hiding? why won't he agree to do this? >> so what happens? he gets elected and the senate has to make a choice whether or not they want to expel him. at the same time, there's an ethics investigation going on to alfranken. this is a very hairy time for everyone in that chamber. >> i'm not conceding that roy moore will win, but if it does go there, that's a very interesting problem. because unlike al franken, the voters of alabama know about these allegations. they will have known about them for over a month before they go vote. so to say that, for the senate to say, basically, your votes don't matter, plays right into that bannon wing of the system is rigged against you, it does a

horrible thing to the political process. and i just don't know if that's worth it, to really undermine our system that way, within our country. >> but, he could -- he could still win p. i mean, he could still win. >> he could. and again, i'm questioning, is it the right thing to -- the people of alabama know about these allegations. they will still make a decision. if they decide to vote for him and he is elected, how do you tell them that they don't get to -- the right to decide? what's next? what's the next standard? and because there are no charges brought, we can say, yes -- >> but where does the bar go? we -- montana elected a congressman who body slammed a reporter. i mean, what is -- at what point is there a standard for who can serve in the united states congress? >> the standard is simple. if the crime that you are accused of or convicted of doesn't prevent you from running for office, because there are some that are and some that don't, then you --

>> there should be a basic level of decency. >> well, there's no decency in washington anymore. let's put i tht that way. you can't rely on that. >> but if we're thinking about the individual incentives of the actual republican lawmakers who will be voting on this, the reality here is that the vast majority of them or at least the ones in power have said, if he comes to town, we are not going to seat him, we're going to expel him. do we really expect them to go back on their word now? >> hold on -- >> yeah, the access "access hol tape. >> yeah, i'm not saying that they won't, but i'm saying they will have toll think very seriously about the political ramifications of this. a lot of them have said that they're very worried about what seating roy moore could do to them in 2018 -- >> are you confident, though, that they're not going to look at the political map and say, hey, we have a better chance now of getting our agenda put through -- >> i think there's a more immediate concern here. you're talking about it from an electoral perspective. we talked earlier about what could be percolating in washington. this isn't going to be the last we hear, the al franken story is

not going to be the last we hear, as women are feeling confident and that they are going to be believed when they speak up. i suspect this isn't the end of what will percolate. so you can have that wing -- >> as rachel maddow will say, watch this space. joel, gabe, susan, guys, thank you very much. and we will be right back. every day, on every street, in every town, across america. small businesses show their love to you. with some friendly advice, a genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town... well, your town.

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that is all for us tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. "the beat with ari melber"

starts right now. >> hi, katy. >> tonight, we are starting with several developing story. a bipartisan call for new evidence from jared kushner in the russia probe. that's developing tonight. and also, a new allegation of inappropriate conduct alleged against senator al franken, with his accuser speaking out and also today accepting his apology. we have more on each of those stories. but we begin now with the nine women accusing alabama republican roy moore of misconduct. their accusations have compelled most politicians to pick sides here. many alabama republicans standing by moore. most washington republicans turning on him. and yet, the normally outspoken president trump, who, let's remember, sounds off on controversies ranging from nfl protests to white supremacy rallies, who has now had a week to assess this controversy relating to allegations of pedophilia, donald trump, that once-loud figure, has turned