repealing and replacing obamacare four times, they need a win on tax reform to show they can govern. >> all right. thanks, to kristen welker. >> that does it for us on this morning. have a great weekend, everyone, morning joe starts right now. all right. members of the ethics committee are quickly becoming some of the busiest lawmakers on capitol hill. senator al franken is apologizing after an accusation he kissed and groped a woman in 2006. there is senator bob menendez who dodged a conviction and faces more at home. roy moore is slipping spoert in alabama t. porte is all but gone if washington. we'll get the very latest on all of that and major developments surrounding michael flynn and jared kushner. that's all straight ahead on the friday morning. good morning, everyone.

welcome to morning joe. it's to have 17th. joe is on assignment this morning. with us we have national analyst for msnbc john heilemann. donny deutsche is here and republican strategist and political competenttator -- what? >> viewers want to know why you do that? >> because you are reprehensible in some ways. i like to feel it when i say it. >> what are the ways i'm reprehensive? >> the question is, in what ways are you not reprehensive. >> within are you donny and it's fun. >> tell the people, it's fun, it's not true hatred. >> i know. >> disgust, repulsive. >> we need to analyze. susan dell vdell persio is here and host of casey d.c., the rock

casey hunt on msnbc. i love i. very god, willie, well done. thank you for doing that. >> wolfman. >> that was good. >> i was expecting it from heilemann, i'm confused. >> i knew he would step up. >> there is so much to start with. let's start with the alabama senate race which will go on as manned december 12th. the governor saying yesterday she will not move the day election. it means the republican nominee roy moore has a little over three weeks to make up ground on democrat doug jones, if the new fox news poll is accurate t. poll shows jones leading moore by 8 points among likely voters in the state. 78% of republican likely voters say they would vote for moore, while 13% say they'd vote for jones. jones is doing considerably well among women voters. 58% of women said they will vote for jones.

only 32% say they'd vote for moore. also, 69% of women voters under 45 and 51% of women over 45 said they will back jones in next month's election. when likely voters were asked ability moral character. 56% said jones had a strong moral character. 41% said roy moore and 40% said luther strange had strong moral character. yesterday white house press secretary sarah huckaby sanders said that president trump found the allegations troubling but repeatedly said trump would leave the decision to support moore up to alabama voters. >> the president believes that these allegation are very troubling and should be taken seriously. he thinks that the people of alabama should 345ik i make the decision on who their -- should make the decision on who their next senator should be. that's the decision the people

of bam pam need to make. not the president. these are something that should be taken very seriously and the people of alabama should be the ones to make the decision on whether or not to support roy moore t. president supported the decision by the rnc to withdraw resource from this race but feels it's up to the people of alabama to make the decision. as i said, the president said this is a decision for the people of alabama to make, not one for him to make. >> and, of course, president trump left on twitter quickly to go after al franken. we will talk about that in a moment, still has not personally spoken about roy moore. covering the race, msnbc's vaughan hilliard. vaughan, this is a regular thing we are doing every morning. we have a fnew poll out. roy moore's hardened supporters are sticking by his side. what does it look like on the ground? >> reporter: willie, i think we need to be clear and look at the race.

this is day number nine since those allegations came out t. first ones in the washington post. i think it needs to be repeated over and over now that roy moore is running a campaign that is not focused on politics and is not focused on issues, but focused on delegitimizing thiin avations about these issues. they say he has not been asked. and roy moore has not answered the semple question, have you ever touched, killsed or dated a teenage girl? he was again asked yesterday at a press conference up in birmingham, where there is about 20 faith leaders that came up and spoke on his defense as well as what were they doing? delegitimizing women and talking about issues like gay terrorists and those that partake in it. they mentioned one speaker mentioned ungodly republicans

like john mccain and mitt romney. once roy moore bought the to the microphone. he spoke about 60 seconds and said this is all untrue and we're here to take down mitch mcconnell. when it came down to the questions, it's about these allegations, what did he do? he walked down the hallway, refusing to answer. this is a man now running a campaign. he saet it up. it's us versus the forces of evil. this is what the alabama voters are having to decide. whether the man is the roy moore they believe to be or will they side with mitch mcconnell tope swamp the voices of evil. >> so as you point out they don't believe the allegations are true because they consider the source. they come from the liberal media and the washington establishm t

establishment. given the construct they've put out there. what has been the reaction to the press at his events? has his supporters reacted to you? have some of the pastors commented to you? >> reporter: the pastors yesterday were particularly upset with the line of questioning that took place after. when it comes down to the supporters, i was with them at this church two nights ago, it was interesting the response afterwards, people were saying thank you for coming. most people we talked to, these were staunch republicans, acknowledging they don't know the facts of the situation. they say they want to believe the roy moore they've phone since the '70s and ''80s. one woman is praying about it. she having a difficult time. she doesn't know if she will go to the polls. these were nine women with specific accounts that are spread out across the state. many are in their 50s and 60s that go back with very specific allegations that he has not directly refuted, besides

painting that wide stroke of them not being true. i say it's been nine days since he's had that opportunity, willie. this is a man who has 27 days left unwilling to answer those specifics. >> vaughan, thanks, so much. donny, there is a jeremy peters piece in the "new york times," it reads, there was a time when the question to disown a candidate accused of sexually abusing a 14-year-old girl was fairly straight forward. we are living in a parallel universe, again for the people that support roy moore, it's not about these accusations, they don't believe the accusations due, to the source. they believe they're democratic operatives, these women or pushed out there by democratic operatives and the establishment. this is protecting the tribe at all costs, even if it means questioning the veracity of stories put forth by a large number of women. >> the source is not the post t. source is nine women, some of

the vote worries have fought voted for trump, not political. who have nothing to lose, everything -- everything to lose, nothing to gain. i don't know if they painted these men and women of faith literally coming on and calling the communist democrats and the evil left wing. this is a man accused by nine women of underage po leftation. underage molestation. it's stunning, it's frightening. where are with e? where have we come? >> we are in strange times. >> to contextualize this party. we used to be a party that protected the weak. protected children. are we going to try to protect the environment with the e, protect consumers with regulation, try and protect

elephants from being slaughtered. every evil thing you can be doing. every bad guy, good guy. you watch the goose stepping in south korea, in north korea, those are the bad guys. i was watches yesterday, these people, we're becoming the bad guys. and all i ask is the people of alabama find out who you are. the people will brand you the party of the pedophile. >> so are we here, susan, though, to broaden the conversation and to be as honest as possible. i think it's really hard these days to have an honest conversation about sexual ha ralsment, no matter what you say, and i'm finding myself in a lot of private conversations with people on both sides of this and it is a mind field. >> i will say, didn't this start long before even bill clinton but i will say it was with bill

clinton in many ways who can i say sexually harassed an intern in the white house? >> according to kristen guild brand the senator from new york can you say that this is on the record. >> this isn't roy moore in alabama places where republicans are. this has been happening for decades, it's been accepted as a norm. >> these are underage children, though, it's all horrible. these are under aged children we are talking about. >> absolutely. we can draw that line for sure. >> that would be a crime on every level. but aren't we here because norms have been accepted that have been beyond the pale for a very long time? >> we are. we are also at an interesting point. now these women came forward and guess what, every woman that's coming forward the presumption is we believe them. >> it didn't used to be. >> it never was that way. listening to especially the al franken comments, more of the work place kind of sexual

harassment versus the molestation comments or concerned. how many pats on the bum did i get or colleague, how many times did we hear, stay away from this one? it was a matter of a little survival. it's not necessarily i'm making a me too comment. it was just the way it was send and no one wanted to rock the boat. i think we are still going to see issues in washington, especially women are scared to come forward, because there are so many other implications. you don't want to be the one to take down your party, for example. >> i think so. >> women are feeling safe now. and that is probably one of the more significant things that we're seeing. >> if it goes in the right direction and if this continues to be an honest conversation to this next story now, al franken, where yesterday morning a radio news anchor accused the democratic senator of force ply kissing and groping her, we got

a tip that the story was about to break from roger stone, the former campaign adviser to donald trump. although he's banned from twitter. it's al franken's time in the barrel. franken next in a long list of democrats to be accused of grabby behavior. how did he know that? that was posted around 1:00 a.m. hours before the franken allegations broke. how did he know that? we have much more on that coincidence to this story in just a moment. but first the accusation. lee anne tweeden says it happened in 2006 during a rehearsal on tour overseas with the uso. >> he just smashed his lips against my face. he stuck his tongue in my mouth so fast and all i can remember is that his lips were really wet

and it was slimy. i remember i pushed him off with my hands and i just remember i almost punched him. because every time i see him now my hands clinch into fists. i'm sure that's probably why. i said if you ever do that to me again,ly not be so nice about it the second time and i just walked out away from him and i walked out and i just wanted to find a bathroom and i just wanted to rinse my mouth out. >> tweeden then released this photograph yesterday showing franken grabbing her in the chest while she slept. initially franken released a short statement saying he remembers the rehearsal differently. zplmplts

. >> tweeden said yesterday she accepts senator franken's apology. in a second statement, franken said he would cooperate with an ethics investigation. that's what many democrats called for yesterday. here now are some other reactions. >> the statement that al made i think an inappropriate statement. he's asking for an investigation on himself. and this committee is very, very competent and very food. >> sexual harassment is inappropriate in every circumstance in every way, whomever is involved.

>> the behavior is unacceptable. i think the idea of having the ethics commission take it up, that's what you have an ethics committee for and i'm happy that he has said, you know, i'll cooperate. >> president trump also weighed in on twitter last night writing, the al franken stein picture is really bad, speaks a thousand words. where do his hands go in pictures, 2, 3, 4, and 5 and 6 while she sleeps. i don't know, maybe che tell us in the tapes from ""access hollywood." " . >> the leslie stall references a 1995 article about a discussion between "saturday night live" writers, franken suggests a joke about a scenario where staal is

assaulted. he says the joke was never intended to air on television. what are you hearing on the hill? >> this is a situation where you showed some democrats on camera talking about this for the most part. i would say there were a lot of people that were running away from the cameras, democrats who don't want to talk about this. but i do think that there is a sense that, you know, this is not -- there is a certain level of your honor surprise i think that the overall sexual harassment story reaching capitol hill. we have been talking about this for last week-and-a-half. jackie spear who franken's accuser referenced in her press conference has come forward and said, look, this is a huge problem. she told her own me too story. i think it's important to remember, too, susan touched on this earlier in the conversation, there are lot of women who are afraid to name names in the context of capitol hill and politics, because of

the -- it's the way the town is. it's a small town, your reputation is everything. they don't want to say anything, they're afraid they'll never work in politics again. lee anne tweeden gave voice to that. she said 12 years ago i could never tell this story, i could never work in the town again. she and al franken were working. and she is in a position of power, whose job is not contingent on a future politician deciding to hire her on a staff or for a campaign. she is able to come out and tell this story, i think for every story like this, where somebody is willing to say it, it seems to me dozens of women. i have talked to quite a few of them over the course of the last week or so who have stories to tell and are afraid to tell them. i have to tell you, this is not a partisan problem. that one thing, you saw the president tweeting about this, he said the people of alabama need to make up their minds, hasn't said a

word. people quickly take this and make it about the party of whomever is in question. it is not about partisan politics and the bad behavior of men, to a long spectrum and varying degrees. >> that is why people around washington campaigns are so afraid to say anything is because they know it will get politicized immediately. whether that will change in light of how clearly we are in a significant cultural moment. so far, it's not changing in my conversations. people are still afraid. >> i think it's about the bad behavior of men and the evolving strength of women to own their voices and to feel comfortable talking about something that used to be in the shadows about something 245 that would get them attacked. now it's something that makes them a part of a bigger movement. something transformational. i think this is a perilous time for this movement that needs to go back in the right direction. back now to the roger stone part

of the story. as we mentioned the former campaign adviser is banned from twitter. yesterday, in an account connected to him, posted roger stone says it's al franken's time in the barrel. franken next in a long list of democrats to be accused of grabby behavior. that was posted hours before the franken allegations broke. incidentally, time in the barrel is the same language stone used to reference john podesta's leaked e-mails in the 2016 race before wikileaks released those e-mails. john heilman, i mean, there's, i'm just not going to play the game. what's going on? >> i have no idea. i don't know. >> does it seem strange that he -- >> you know, i have no idea. look, roger stone is a guy with lots of connections in the media. these stories are being pursued across the world of politics. >> how do you know? >> the stories are being pursued

by a lot of people. >> a lot of opposition research being done? >> i don't know, i have no answer to the question. i know people plugged into medium politics are hearing a lot of gossip about a lot of people being pursued. i can't speculate on how roger stone may end. >> i want to ask susan and mika and casey's question, any of this behavior against women is reprehensible and unacceptable. that's a given. you use the word degrees. this is not partisan. because this is going to continue to happen. every guy is going to what in my life did i ever attribute -- do we have to separate and stop to put degrees, the difference, both reprehensible but degrees of somebody who nine women come forward, molested, underage children, versus someone forced the kiss on a woman. both bad, please, i don't want letters that in anyway i'm marginalizing what happened with

al franken. but do we have to somehow start to delineate the behavior as we would with bullying or lying or any other bad behavior or versus one person who comes forward, apologizes? or put nit one bucket? i'm asking you guys? >> well, there's laws, first of all, from a moral -- but to talk about the degrees, it also means we have to recognize when women are coming forward, there are often reasons why women wait so long, because of their careers, like in the al franken case or they're young and the time they grow up older they don't want to put their children through, it sometimes takes time t. best thing, women come forward, especially if it's women period. >> we are in an amazing moment. >> i guess what i'm saying, those degrees are already determined. we know that someone. >> right now we're in the media, we're putting those guys in the same bucket now the same story, men behaving terribly.

>> the public reacts. i think the public absolutely does react different will i to a child molester than to someone who is caught trying to forcibly kiss somebody. i mean. >> both bad, because i'm going to get letters about this. >> both are bad. i would argue, what would we make the case of al franken if there wasn't that photo? would it have been treated the same exact way, he was an elected official, would it have been a part of the work plates place? that's why i think his first statement is it was a part of a skit, dancing around. but the photo is so damming and you know look at the front page of the tabloids in new york. it's all over the place. >> that does make a difference when we look at the accused. more importantly how the public reacts to it, i think. >> it's such a sensitive -- >> it is. >> it's so argument -- we have to talk about it.

it's so hard to talk about. >> hold on, casey. hold that thought. some conservative voices are pumping the brakes. i think i'm going to ask you a really tough question before lumping in the allegations against senator franken with those brought against alabama senate candidate roy moore. fox's bret hume tweeted out, franklin has basically admitted what his accuseers said and apologized. a big difference for moore. >> that in response to a twheet asked hume why he did not seem as eager to declare him guilty as he had with moore. conservative commenttator amanda carpenter tweeted out what does the city ethics committee have to investigate about franken? we have the story, the po no and an apology and contributor charlie sax, with all of the republicans pounding al franken to resign because of this story, it really does open up the question of well, then what about donald trump? if we believe all the other

women in all the other cases, why do we not believe women who accused him? it's a very good question. and then in the middle of all of this, there's a lot of generational changes happening here, really good for women t. women's movement has produced incredible results, including this moment, where women are speaking out, are there times, i'm not going to ask you the question. i'm going to stay this, that we have to look at what the goal is here. what's the goal? what are we trying to do? because i think the goal is to shine the light on really bad behavior, really perform, really scary moments for women that derail their careers and we need to create an environment where everyone feels safe. where this behavior is shunned, where it's unwelcomed and prevented. so, is the goal to bring people

down based on politics or hate? there are cases that are proven where there are subtlements, where there is evidence and the sexual predator has been brought down, harvey weinstein, there are cases where the predator flourished and continued to be the president of the united states. i'm talking about bill clinton, where the women were attacked, where they were settled with and their lives were ruined, monica lewinsky and forever stamped with a scarlet letter. you know, this is what we have been dealing with on both sides of the aisle. what's the goal? we have a friend of the show who is no longer on this show because of his behavior that he admit itself and he apologizes for al franken apologizes. i'm not being ideological or siding with anybody. i believe the women. but what are we doing with these apologies? >> the ultimate goal, do we accept the first thing and that's what the settlements were

originally about, scare people, men into not having the behavior. >> they end up feeling victimized, their voices were taken away and non-disclosures are a way of victimizing women who do we want? >> now we're into the next step. we want women to speak out so men know that we're going to speak out and they will not behave that way and following that after probably a generation of fear, honestly, is that we see that they simply do not behave like that, because they know it's not acceptable. >> who is the judge the jury and the cops in all these cases? because right now, if the story is big enough and flies enough the career is over. >> well, i think it's not. the judge and jury becomes the american public, what they're willing to tolerate. what they're not. now the fact is, let's not forget, especially when it comes to politic, 51% of this country, women voters. we have a say. we are using, starting to use the voice. and not to get too kind of

catchy here. it's about knowing your value, what you have been talking about. it's about saying, it's okay. i have the right to be in the work place. >> own it, in the moment. in the moment. >> that's the goal t. goal is to signal to men that the boys club is closed. >> it's over. >> you cannot do this. you can't get away with it any more. >> the it's a reality, do we bring people down one by one or the ones that want to address their behavior, do we bring them to the table? >> i think the public has a pretty good sense of where those lines are and will play out. there will be casualties that could happen to willie's point. net, net, nebraska a. new generation of men behaviorally will have a clip in their brain for the right moment in time. >> here's the tough question then. do you worry? do you know? do you feel that the way you were around -- >> every man. >> hold on, the way you were around women 30 years ago is a little different, donny, than the way you are now? >> a million percent.

>> exactly. >> a million percent. >> so should you be brought down for the way you were 30 years ago, i want to know? >> every incident, should i be brought down if i try to kiss a woman? should my life end if i did that 30 years ago, i hope not. i think everything is contextualized. in my case, a man chasing under age children, everything has to be contextualized and every man i know probably if their entire life was being filmed, not physically forced has done an inappropriate thing in the work place. >> what is happening now, you talk about enduring those pats on the butt itself. >> oh my gosh. >> i got cupped. >> the women coming out now and bravely speaking out, things are uncomfortable they had to swallow and live with they are doing it so my daughter doesn't get matted on the butt. i am so grateful people like you are coming out and saying that.

my daughter will not endure these comments, those looks, the behavior. >> and everyone's son will be brought up not to do it. that's equally important. >> that's what the goal is. we just want to keep in mind there we will go for a great moment we want, case years hold that thought. we have the jared kushner news we want to get to. susan mentioned the interview senator gillibrand gave. when asked by the "new york times" that bill clinton should have resigned after his relationship with monica lewinsky was revealed, the new york democrat and i completely agree and i felt this in the moment, said, yes. i think that is the appropriate response. i don't know why women in the white house and in washington did not think that in the moment. adding quote, that's me, not her, that things have gains today and i think under shows

circumstances, i think in light of this conversation, we should have a very different conversation about president trump, and a very different conversation about allegations against him. thank you, kiersten gillibrand. she has a long-standing tie with the clinton, once occupys the seat once held by hillary clinton. i think the days of tip-toeing around the clintons are over. i'm fine with it. >> thank goodness bob mueller may be learning a lot more about michael flynn and his ties to turkey a. turkish businessman accused of money laundering is cooperating with federal prosecutors. we'll have the latest on that. you are watching morning joe. we'll be right back. from the moment you decide to move your money

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many. >> we have been talk act this for the entire break. casey hunt you wanted to chime

in, take it away. >> i was just listening to what donny's initial question about, how do we physical out, how do we sort through the degrees of this. i just, i think the answer to that question is that the most important thing to remember is this is a new context to consider this range of acts and the difference mika said earlier women now feel empowered to speak up. we never really talked about the monica lewinsky scandal at the time in the context of work place power dynamics and the fact that, you know what do you do to a certain extent when your extraordinarily powerful boss makes a suggestion that perhaps you should enjoy each other's time after hours. do you fear retribution? it's a complicated dynamic. that's one we are now considering, i think more wildly. i think the reality is, i don't want to compare this to the supreme court analogy, it's pornography when you see it. we've all endorsed pats or

touching that seems questionable. i think there is also a very clear difference between, you know, making a mistake and there existing and being a pattern of harassment, what lee anne described with al franken, we're focused on the photo, on the one incident. keep in mind, she describes this as a two-week tour, so this incident occurs. she feels violated. then she is sitting next to him day after day after day where she feels continually harassed by him. they end the trip with him taking this photograph. that's a pattern of harassment. i think it clearly scarred her. i think for a lot of us. we have instances of things, we have ignored, laughered off. there are also times where you know the difference and you know, hey, i'm being harassed over a period of time. those are the kind of #metoo stories we are hearing. donny, we will see where this franken story evolves, if it evolves. because the reality is for men who have a repeated pattern and

you know potentially, look at harvey weinstein, now you look at the pictures of those graphics of how many women endured this, that should matter to us, too. people make mistakes. >> that hams. forgiveness is an important i think quall. but serial creation is something that i think the silence allow thad to go on. >> that seems to be what's fundamentally changing here. >> donny. >> the net, net, knelt, of all of there is, is that we are going through c change as a culture, who we are and how we behave and men entering the work place will be thinking different. men who have spent their lives in the work place are reflecting. the challenge going forward in the work place, ironically, companies are spending billions of dollars to socially lube brick the work place -- lubricate and putting in massage

table itself to make it is, against that back drop, how do sexes behave? it will take a few years to sort this out. it is very paperful for any woman who has had to endure anything. >> it does. >> the one thing i think everything that's happening needs to happen. i think the women finally need to be believed. i think the behavior needs to be shined. what i am confathused about is t to do. what is done with these apologies? when someone like al franken completely admits to it. where do we go from there. >> mark halperin admits to it. wants to go further. but there is nothing happening. >> i'm not siding only, and, by the way, don't send me techs pill la pillageing me for taking sides, i'm trying to have an honest conversation and women we need to step up. we are strong. we have voices.

let's use them fairly. there are men, there are predators who we have given a pass to who we never should have. whether it's for politics the good of whatever, we never should have and we did. we are now not giving a pass anymore. but what about the men who are coming to the table and talking about what their behavior was about, why they did it, what the timing was, what the environment was who the managers were, who enabled this behavior, who promoted them for it? who rewarded them for it. this is a conversation that some men are ready to have, are we going to have it? i challenge us. casey hunt, thank you very much. coming up, the latest on the investigation into former national security adviser michael flynn and his connections to turkey. we will tell you who is prosecuting with prosecutors. morning joe will be right back.

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let's bring in nbc news national political reporter carole league. carole is a part of the reporting team that broke this next story regarding president trump's former national security adviser michael flynn's alleged ties to turkey. nbc news has learned that 33-year-old turkish businessman, a dual turkish-iranian national

in federal custody in an international money laundering case, involving iran and has close ties to turkish president erdogan is now cooperating with federal prosecutors and legal experts tell nbc that the prosecution may be using zarrab to look further into turkey and flynn. it comes on the heels of nbc news' report last week that special counsel robert mueller is investigating an alleged bribery scheme between the turkish government and flynn and his son michael flynn jr., reportedly set up after last year's election. in the deem the flynns would get about $15 million. in return, use their influence to have a muslim cleric living in the u.s. who erdogan views as his main political rival september back to turkey. in addition to having the charges against zarrab dropped. erdogan has been pushing to have

those charges dropped for a while, reportedly asking vice president joe biden last year. careful i carole, give us more of a sense of your reporting here. this is incredible. >> reporter: yeah, it's really significant for a couple of reasons, one is this individual's closeness to president erdogan as you mentioned and we know that robert mueller is looking into michael flynn's ties to turkey. so any information that this individual would have about michael flip's ties to turkey, any knowledge of any business dealings that he had, any, you know, ways in which he lobbied, and then secondly, he was allegedly a part of this deal this $15 million deal we reported open last week, where it wasn't just this cleric. it was that returned to turkey, it was in exchange for this $15 million. michael flynn would help you get this man freed somehow. so the fact that he is

cooperating with federal authorities is significant. it's something that president erdogan had been hoping to avoid. he was obsessed with this case in the way he's obsessed with the gulen case and he repeatedly asked u.s. officials to drop the charges to free this man, who has been in custody for over a year now so we don't know exactly what investigators are learning, but he could be professionally a significant person to get information about michael flynn. >> carole, try to layout. it seems as though michael flynn's criminal vulnerability, exposure seems to be growing. he seems to be growing and new fronts are opening up. talk about mueller's game here. >> reporter: sure. >> what can bob muler do with that? and where does he take that vulnerability on the flynn side

to try to move his, advance this investigation on other fronts? >> reporter: well, if you look at all the pieces that robert mueller has on, in terms of flynn, we know that the investigators have enough to bring charges in the investigation into flynn and his son. if you know that michael flynn was not north coming about his contacts with foreign officials, particularly russians. we know he did not disclose certain things on his security clearance, contacts with foreign officials. we know that he did not register as a foreign agent with for lobbying, for the benefit of turkey, so there is that piece. now we learn there is this front looking deep near his ties into turkey and whether or not there was this meeting at the 21 club in december of 2016, where he agreed to use his position inside the white house to benefit a foreign deposit. >> that is significant. >> that shows how much pressure robert mueller is trying to

bring on to michael flynn, potentially to flip him to talk about other individuals, whether it's the president or, you know the president's son or son-in-law, and then have you the piece of michael flynn jr., which is when you bring a child into this, typically a parent/child relationship, if your child is under fire, you might be more inclined to cave and cooperate to help save your child, so there is a number of different ways you can see pressure, robert mueller trying to put pleasure e pressure on michael flynn. >> jared kushner is up against a new deadline, politico reports the chairman and ranking member of the senate judiciary committee have written a letter asking for missing documents related to russia and wikileaks in 2016. the letters from grassley and feinstein states the production of the documents relate related to the document appears to be incomplete t. senators st. other witness versus handed over

documents on which kushner was copied but never turned in, himself. they pointed to two xhls, the 2016 e-mail communication to kushner, concerning wikileaks that he forwarded to another campaign official and documents quote, russian back door ov overture and dinner invite that he failed to hand over. kushner responded, quote, we provided the judiciary committee with all relevant documents that had to do with mr. kushner's calls, contacts or meetings with respect to the requests. here's what kushner said outside the white house in july after meeting with staff and senate intel committee. >> since the first questions were raised in march, i have been consistent in saying that i was eager to share any information i have with the investigating bodies, and i've done so today. the record and documents i have voluntarily provided will show that all of my actions were

proper and occurred in the normal course of events of a very unique campaign. >> this is not jared kushner's first time for a do-over on documents he was asked to provide. he had to file a number of forms after he failed to disclose a number of assets. he added more than 100 foreign contacts that had been omitted. so, carol lee, this is a pattern not just for jared kushner, by the way, but for people who may have forgotten meetings they had with ambassadors of russia, for example, but jared kushner keeps having to go back and revise what he gives to these intel committees in terms of contacts with russia and now wikileaks. >> you can sense some of the frustration, and it was significant that this was the democrat and the republican on this committee sending this letter. you can see, clearly, they have gotten other documents from other people they've asked for them and are seeing that jared kushner left out certain

e-mails, and they would be very significant e-mails and documents. so they're basically saying you have ten days, essentially, to come back and provide us with these documents that we know you have. jared kushner's lawyer said, we'll consider additional requests, but this seemed to be a pattern, and you can see how investigators on the hill are getting increasingly frustrated with that. >> all right, nbc news national political reporter carol lee, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, we'll talk to democratic congressman tim ryan who says he is disgusted by the tax bill passed in the house yesterday. plus congressman john delaney, the financial services committee. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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coming up, democratic senator al franken accused of groping and forcibly kissing a

woman against her will in 2006. now lawmakers and franken himself are calling for an ethics investigation. plus new polling shows senate candidate roy moore trailing his democratic opponent among likely voters, but moore, among his strongest supporters, remain defiant. and a small win after the house passed its tax reform bill. now they just have to get some skeptical republican senators on board. we'll go live to the white house. "morning joe" is coming right back. (♪) it all starts with a wish. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down and a complementary first months payment. what if we could keep more amof what we earn?d.

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and for a limited time, get a camera included and installed at no additional cost. that's a $449.00 value, installed, for just $49.00. accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth. if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress

once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. the updates you made to your plan strengthened your retirement score. so, that goal you've been saving for, you can do it. we can do this? we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. nana, let's do this! aye aye, captain! ♪ and as you go through life -whoo! -♪ tryin' to reach your goal

these allegations are very troubling and should be taken seriously, and he thinks that the people of alabama should make the decision on who their next senator should be. that's also something in a decision that the people of alabama need to make, not the president, whether or not they want roy moore to support them in the senate. but these are something that should be taken very seriously and the people of alabama should be the ones to make the decision on whether or not to support roy moore. the president supported the decision by the rnc to withdraw resources from this race, but feels it's up to the people of alabama to make the decision. look, as i've said, the president believes this is a decision for the people of alabama to make, not one for him to make. >> president trump finds the allegations against alabama senate candidate roy moore troubling, but he'll leave the decision about whether to support moore up to alabama voters, as you just heard. how long can sarah sanders do

that? 27 days? can she really do that every day? >> i think she's determined. i think she's just going to keep doing that. >> but do you think the president can hold back from commenting for 27 days. >> it will be really hard. >> his little hands right there, he could just tweet. he was very quick to tweet about the allegations against senator al franken. welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday, november 17. joe is on assignment. he'll be back on monday. this has been an incredible conversation, a really important one, and i've been on the edge of my seat for an hour because it's a difficult conversation to have. and sometimes no matter what you say, it makes someone so angry, but i'm still glad we're having it. with us we have national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc don heilman. johnny deutsch is with us and he is not reprehensible.

political commentator susan delsosio and politicist gene moore. alabama's governor kay ivey said yesterday she will not move the date of the election. it means that republican nominee roy moore has a little over three weeks to make ground on candidate doug jones if the poll is accurate. the poll shows jones leading by eight points. 78% unlikely voters say they will vote for moore while 13% said they would vote for jones. 58% of women said they would vote for jones, only 32% said they would vote for moore.

also 69% of women over 45 said they will back jones in next month's election. >> when likely voters were asked about moral character, 56% said jones has a strong moral character, 41% say roy moore does, and 40% say luther strange, the man defeated in the republican primary, has more character. if doug jones wins this election, it will be because women turned and voted for him and stepped up and said, we're not going to put up with what roy moore has done in the past. but you still have 53% of men saying they will vote for roy moore even given all we've heard and all we've learned about him. >> the best thing that can happen for the republicans is if doug jones wins. if moore becomes the poster boy for the republican party, what they stand for, what they believe, i would be loving to do any campaigns for any democratic candidate and use him as the poster. >> some national republicans said that out loud. they said, i would rather have a

democrat hold that seat than have that man in the senate. >> almost every republican has said that in private. >> if you look at next year's senate map, the republicans are poised to pick up a couple more seats. we also have to hold onto nevada and arizona. you put roy moore in there, we are changing things -- we're going from 48/52 to -- >> to the predator of little kids. john heilman, is it better for the party if roy moore loses? >> oh, yeah, for sure. >> he's all two-word answers. >> for sure it's better for the party. the republican party suffered a lot when todd aiken was around and everybody in the party had to answer for his comments about rape and about consent. this is a situation where democrats will rightly hang roy moore around the republican party's neck if he ends up winning this race and ends up at the united states senate.

he's someone who is going to torment the leaders of the party if he's a senator, so he's going to be difficult to work with, he's going to be -- he's going to do nothing constructive for the party if he wins and he's going to do a huge number of destructive things politically for the party if he's sitting there in the united states senate. i would think that everybody in the republican party right now, if they lose this race, and jones ends up as the democratic senator, you're going to run this race again in two years, whoever the republican who runs against jones in 2020 is going to be the favorite in that race because of alabama politics. you can tolerate a democrat for two years. what you can't tolerate is having roy moore represent -- be a seated united states senator, someone who is a credibly accused pedophile that again, as i say, every republican who is u up for election is going to have to answer the roy moore question over and over again throughout 2018. that is not good for the republican party. >> again, he is an accused

pedophile, and nobody at this table or in the press is the judge, jury or cop in this case, but you have a story that is sourced time and time and time again. there is woman after woman who has spoken out and put her face to the words. there is background information that is reported in terms of this man being banned from a mall and calling a school and trying to pick up a girl. this is all information that is out in the public for the public to decide upon, even though the judge, the jury and the cops have not been involved. and that's what makes this dicey, when you get to other stories. because some of them look a little bit different but involve some of the same issues. we're going to turn now to the al franken story where yesterday morning a radio news anchor accused the democratic senator of forcibly kissing and groping her a decade ago. we actually got an early tip on the story that it was about to break. from roger stone, the former campaign adviser to donald trump. although he's banned from twitter, an account connected to

him posted, quote, roger stone says it's al franken's time in the barrel. franken is next in the long list of democrats to be accused of grabby behavior. that was posted around 1:00 a.m., hours before the franken allegations broke. incidentally, time in the barrel is the same language stone used to reference john podesta's leaked e-mails in the 2016 race before wikileaks released those e-mails. oh, my lord. now to the accusation itself. lu ann tweeden said it happened in 2006 before franken was a senator during a rehearse when they were both on tour overseas with the uso. >> he just mashed his lips against my face and he stuck his tongue in my mouth so fast. and all i can remember is that his lips were really wet and it was slimy.

i pushed him off with my hands, and i almost punched him. every time i see him now my hands clench into fists, and i'm sure that's probably why. and i said, if you ever do that to me again, i'm not going to be so nice about it the second time, and i just walked out away from him and i just topwanted t find a bathroom and rinse my mouth out. >> tweeden released this photograph yesterday showing franken grabbing her chest while she slept on that tour. frank ren released a short statement saying, i remember it differently. i send my sincerest apologies to leeann. as to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn't. i shouldn't have done it. he later said, i don't know what was in my head when i took that fi picture, and it doesn't matter. there's no excuse. i look at it now and i feel disgusted with myself. it isn't funny.

it's completely inappropriate. then franken said he would cooperate with an ethics commission. senator klobuchar said, the ethics committee must open an investigation. senator guillenbrand said i strongly condemn this behavior and the senate ethics committee needs to investigate. and senator schumer said, i hope and expect that the ethics committee will fully investigate this troubling incident. >> the allegations are horrible and he admits to it. i want to know what happened and why. president trump weighed in on twitter last night, writing, the al frankenstein picture is really bad. it speaks a thousand words.

where do his hands go in pictures 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 while she sleeps? the president's comment about leslie stahl appears to address a discussion about franken writers where franken suggests a joke of a scenario where stahl is assaulted. franken said, the extremely dark joke was never intended to air on television. >> i want to talk about trump's reaction. here's what i think is going to be fascinated to watch. obvious obviously countless women came forward with alleges about trump before he was elected. the same way rose gauer and

ashley judd have come out, and i wonder if women will say, you know what? i'm not afraid. >> look at papers and look at twitter and look at the wire feed, and it's not only the big celebrated cases about people who are famous across the country that we talk about here, but everywhere in the country on lower levels of state legislatures everywhere, this is coming out. so i do think that, assuming there are other women who have something to say about president trump, i think they'll come out. >> and there is a change in the environment. look at the way donald trump attacked his accusers when he was running for president. he hasn't yet attacked the accusers against roy moore which shows he is actually concerned about something because this is not a man who generally holds his twitter thumbs, if you will. >> yeah. >> so i think coming out in this environment, if there are women to come out, just like there may be more women to come out again

to al franken. unfortunately, i think we're in an environment that at the end of this year, we may hear about two or three other high-powered business executives or elected officials that this is going to break. >> what time is it? >> exactly. >> we were having a very delicate conversation the first hour about all men. just about every man i know has to look in the mirror and at different moments in time have asked women out. 50% of this country has had relationships in the workplace. where is the line? how do we start -- the harvey weinsteins, the animals, the beasts, the pedophiles versus misbehavior in the workplace. you all grew up in newsrooms. >> it was a different time when i started in news. i don't think this is rocket science. there are some things that are clearly beyond the pale. you don't touch people without their consent. you don't kiss people uninvited in that sort of way. and i don't think that was like

that complicated back then. i think we should have known. and there was a certain -- you know, in your work setting, but certainly in work settings -- a newspaper i worked at before "the post" and early days at "the post," there were men who would say things that we would now consider wildly inappropriate. but in today's context -- okay, we would say that was not good, but we would put it in the prior context. and there are some things we just -- the context hasn't changed, right? so i think we can make those distinctions. we just have to get the stories out and we have to talk about it, and it's a difficult conversation for some people. there are people we really love and respect who will be in that

scenario. >> it doesn't have to be touching or even a comment. it can be implied that someone who is above you or someone who perhaps can help your career says, let's go grab a drink, is this a woman might say to herself, you know what? maybe it's in my best interest to go have that drink and who knows where that leads. ne in other words, it's not like the old times, let me grab your butt in the office, but if someone asks you out, you may be coerced in some way because if i don't go have that drink, i'll be shunned. >> it's abuse of power. >> at the same time, colleagues go out and have drinks. >> that's what i mean, it's a very complicated thing. >> it is complicated, but you kind of know when you feel if you're being set up or not. if you are, you take appropriate actions whether you're a man or a woman. let's face it, in the workplace now, you see more men and women.

when we go back in context if you talk about 30 years ago versus today, there are a lot of women who are peers with men, not necessarily the secretarial role or the odd woman who is kind of climbing up the ladder. so i think it is on women, too, that it's okay to go have a drink with a colleague, whether it's a male or a female. if you're uncomfortable doing it, don't do it. if you feel like you're jeopardized, most companies do have resources for you. the problem is the u.s. government does not have a resource for young women to go to. >> at the "washington post" since' been there, we've always had glass offices. we've always had see-through offices. i think it's a good idea. >> can i take that a step further? i'm not sure it's okay to go have drinks. i think we're at a point in time where we need to look at work as a place for professional behavior. for example, glass offices. yeah, that's a good idea.

how about leaving the office door open, especially when you're meeting with an underling. at the doctor's office, there is always a nurse in the room. there is a reason for that. >> every corporation now that is putting bars into workplaces -- >> i know they're trying to be a social experiment and millennials have sleep pods where they end up having sex. i've literally heard about that and it's ridiculous. but maybe we need to dial back. maybe drinks in the evening with a male in a senior position who is much older than you is not a good idea. maybe he shouldn't ask and maybe she shouldn't go. maybe it's lunch, maybe it's coffee, maybe it's a meeting in the office with the door open. why do we all have to go out to dinner at night with members of the opposite sex when we're working with them? why is that a norm? >> if i'm a woman and i'm in a company and there's an important meeting and i'm not going to go because i'm a woman -- >> no, no, no. men don't need to ask for

drinks, okay? >> i'll go to any restaurant tonight and there's tables of three or four guys who work together and liquor on the table. >> that's a problem. >> but it's reality. >> there is a certain totally legitimate kind of institutional and organizational bonding that takes place in successful organizations. >> off site. people hug trees together. but the answer is it's not going to not happen. >> we can hug trees, just not each other, okay? still ahead on "morning joe," this. >> we have tried this before and many of you were here. president bush did this. he said, we're going to cut taxes for the wealthy. it's going to lead to growth, wages are are going to go up. we had the most stagnant decade of growth since the great depression, and it ended in a complete economic collapse. this is a conard.

this economic philosophy stinks. it doesn't work and it hammers working class people. >> congressman tim ryan had some kind of strong words for the senate tax proposal. we'll get the latest reporting from the white house. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ it's a lot easier to make decisions when you know what comes next. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira, we make sure you're in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money

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house republicans successfully passed their tax reform bill yesterday, but there is still a major hurdle ahead, the united states senate. kristen welker is here. kristen, good morning. what is the white house saying about the chances for this? >> reporter: the white house is optimistic, there is no doubt about that. they say the president is going to be on the front lines of this battle, working the phones, reaching out to lawmakers who are skeptical, including senator ron johnson who says right now he is a "no" vote on this. part of the challenge is the messaging and the sense that this bill, the one that passed in the house, the one that is being looked at in the senate,

could potentially help the wealthy while hurting the middle class. the republicans say that's not the case. but the reality is that's the challenge they're dealing with. and complicating their messaging an nbc news analysis that president trump, who has not yet released his tax returns, he would benefit from that tax bill. $20 million he could savor and his heirs could save up to $1.1 billion. the president tweeting about this this morning, no surprise. let's take a look at some of his tweets. writing, great numbers on stocks and the economy. if we get tax cuts and reform, we'll really see some great results. the second one, if democrats were not such obstructionists and understood the power of lower taxes, we would be able to get many of their ideas into the

bill. he's really trying to get democrats on board with the senate tax proposal, and they were saying, hey, we're open to potentially trying to find some type of compromise. the fact that republicans have inserted that language that would repeal the obamacare individual mandate is going to make it a much tougher sell. there is no doubt the highest hurdle remains in the senate, willie. >> kristen welker at the white house for us. let's bring in democratic senator tim ryan. we just heard a little of your impassioned speech on the house floor about this $1.1 billion tax cut by republicans in the house. you said this is a conard, this stinks, this doesn't work. it hammers working class people. the only place this is going to create a job is in beijing, china. what would this plan, if it passes through the senate, mean to a family working in youngstown, ohio, for example, in your district? >> well, they're each going to

be saddled with about $20,000 more in debt. there are two big winners here, willie, it's corporate america, who has been doing really, really well over the last few years, profits are up, and the chinese government. because it's 1.5 trillion, but then we borrow that with interest over 10 years. it's going to be more like $2.3 trillion that we will borrow primarily from the chinese and maybe the saudi arabians. that's debt that's going to go on to the family in akron, ohio or youngstown, ohio. they're going to be forced to pay it. all the while the benefits for corporate america with the corporate tax, for example, is made permanent, and any slight benefit that may go to a working class family is gone after just a year or two and millions of american working class families are going to see a tax increase. if you look at the deductions, for example, student loan deduction, gone. medical health care deduction

for health care costs, gone. if you're a graduate student, you're going to see 300 to 400% increase in your tax bill, and as i said in the speech on the house floor, the salt in the wound is that they keep the deduction that allows a corporation to deduct the expenses and write off the expenses for moving jobs from the united states to other countries. in this day and age, after what president trump campaigned on in places like ohio, michigan and wisconsin, this is a joke that they would keep that in there, and the american people are finding out the true colors of this president, and i will tell you last week when i was back home and did a lot of events over veterans day, the shine is off the apple with president trump. a lot of people are having buyer's remorse. a lot of working class people that i met who are democrats crossed over, voted for trump, are having buyer's remorse, and i think as they see this tax cut unfold, it's going to be even more so. >> so congressman, as you listen to your colleague paul ryan talk

through and defend this bill, he basically gives the argument for supply side economics, that this will grow that family you're talking about in youngstown, ohio, will benefit from the growth. a high tide raises boats. what do you think of his comment? >> as i said, it's a conard. it's baseless. president bush said he was going to do the same thing. he was going to cut taxes for the wealthiest people in the country and that was going to somehow trickle down to the communities that had been left behind by globalization. that decade had the slowest growth of any decade going all the way back to the great depression and it ended in economic collapse in 2007, '08 and '09 that we in some ways are still digging our way out of. that economic theory is a joke. it just doesn't work. there is absolutely no evidence that supply side economics works. you have to have investments back into the people of the

country. what supply side economics has done is it's not only concentrated wealth, but it's concentrated opportunity. so people in many large swaths of the united states lack the opportunity to work their way out of their current economic situation or have more stability in the situation that they're currently in. that's the problem with this economic system. first and foremost, it doesn't work, and the wealthiest people in the country -- we don't hate them because they're wealthy, but we can't afford to go to china and borrow 2.3 million people not to put back in the country but to give the wealthiest people. this economic theory just doesn't work. >> congressman, gene robinson here. what's the recourse now? it got through the house. it's going to come up in the senate. what can democrats do, and especially democrats in the house. you guys lost, basically. how are you going to affect what happens going forward?

>> well, you got to get the message out to put heat on those three, four, five senators that may be swing votes for this, and i think talking about borrowing this money from china, talking about going $2.3 trillion more in debt, talking about the imbalance -- and when you talk about the debt, you hope you're appealing to a bob corker. you hope you're appealing to a jeff flake. jeff flake clearly, when i got to congress, he was the most conservative guy in congress, now they're running him out of the party. but i actually think he is -- he has a lot of integrity when it comes to issues about balancing the budget and about debt and deficits, and if he knows that this is going to cost us $2.3 trillion with the tea that we borrow from china, you hope he can hold the line on it. that's our only hope at this point. >> congressman, before you go, your comments, your reaction to the allegations and the apology by senator al franken on the sex

sexual harrassment story. >> very disappointed, and i'm disgusted with everything that's going on. the only point i'd really like to make is that we're hearing a lot about hollywood, we're hearing a lot about the united states congress. this is something that happens all over the country in communities all over the country, and it needs to be dealt with in a very, very serious way. you know, kudos to these women for having the courage to step up, and mika, kudos to you for really providing a lot of support for them as they speak up. but let's remember, this isn't just in the halls of congress or in the most powerful places in hollywood. this is happening everywhere in the country. >> congressman tim ryan, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thanks, congressman. coming up, nbc news learns about a property in panama bearing donald trump's name that insiders claim may have attracted dirty money. chief correspondent richard

engel joins the conversation next.

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36 past the hour. joining us now live from panama city, panama, nbc news chief

correspondent richard engel. richard, you've been looking into donald trump's business ventures overseas, a building that they say attracted dirty money. >> reporter: that's right, i'm in panama city with an investigation we've been working on for months since the collapse of reuters. the president doesn't own the building, he just licenses his name, and he's been paid over the years millions to do that. and our reporting shows that the building, like others in this city, has been a magnet for suspicious business activity. trump ocean club soars over the pacific and panama city. it's also where criminals, everywhere from russian gangsters to money launderers for latin money cartels hold their cash. alex was one of the brokers.

you came in with hundreds of buyers. >> yes. >> did the trump organization want to know who these buyers were, where the money was coming from? >> no, not that i'm aware of. not at all. >> reporter: he is now a fugitive wanted for fraud. we agreed to disguise his appearance because he fears for his safety. he said he sold units, no questions asked, to buyers including guzman in custody in the united states convicted of launderring millions of dollars. president trump was involved in the panama project, though not directly in sales. she featured in its promotions. our investigation reveals several of ventura's brokers and buyers also had ties to russian organized crime. documents from the panama office show units were bought from anonymous shell companies,

hiding who knows what. and that, a former panamanian prosecutor told us drew in people with a criminal history. patrick ally is a co-founder and global witness. >> a responsible businessman should want to know where the money is coming from. if that businessman is now president of the united states, that's of interest. >> a statement said, the trump organization was not the owner, developer or seller of the trump ocean club panama project and that he had no relationship with ventura or the allegations against him. we also asked ivanka trump for comment, but her team referred us back to this statement. i believe this is a picture of you with president trump. >> yes. that's mar-a-lago. >> you were a guest at the party, they hosted you at

mar-a-lago -- >> yes. there was a lot of people, but i was one of them. >> reporter: the trump organization is now distancing themselves from a project that earned him millions but involved a dubious cast of characters. financial documents indicate the president is still making money from this building. the trump organization maintains that since it never owned the building, wasn't involved in sales, just had a licensing agreement that it can't be held responsible for what went on here. but legal experts we've spoken to say that may not be the case, that if a company deliberately turns a blind eye to suspicious activity, to potential criminal activity, that could be enough to raise a case. mika, back to you. >> richard engel, thank you very much. we'll be looking for more of your reporting on assignment with richard engel. it airs at 9:00 eastern right here on msnbc. todd heilman, it seems like there is a lot of following of the money that can be done as it

relates to trump towers and buildings around the world. >> i think it was one of the stories that was least well covered in the course of the presidential campaign and the story that, if you look at kind of the personnel that bob mueller has put together, a lot of those people are highly trained at following money, and not just to russia but to other places. dark money, dirty money, there is a whole world of that, a whole second financial system. i think that one of the things they're examining very closely is the way in which trump's business operations are tied into that whole world. >> that's the way this ends. that's the way this ends. just look at his properties. it's all -- not all -- the amount of laundering, the russian money. this might be a different instance, it is a licensing deal and whatnot. if you look at the tediousness with which they went through following the money with manafort, that would be

scarring. that's where this all ends. >> let's not forget, licensing agreements also have moral clauses. so if trump wants to step aside from this deal, he can and actually have a legal out. but again we're going to see he's more about the money. >> it's so interesting because president trump wants very much hillary clinton to be investigated. i think that he might want to think twice about that, because wow, this could be a long run of investigations. beware of special prosecutors in the presidency. >> don't sell yourself short. >> banks would not lend him money to build, so he was getting the money somewhere. next on "morning joe." [ applause ] >> that was house republicans cheering the passage of their tax bill yesterday. you can only imagine what the reaction will be if president trump actually signs that proposal into law.

democratic congressman john delaney who is already running for president in 2020 is about to stop that from happening. he joins us next on "morning joe." it can detect a threat using ai, and respond 60 times faster. it lets you know where your data lives, down to the very server. it keeps your insights from prying eyes, so they're used by no one else but you. it. is. the cloud. the ibm cloud.

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one year after helping elect him to the presidency, voters in the battleground state of north carolina is having second thoughts. a north carolina newspaper delivered harsh reviews since president trump took office. among the group, five voted for trump. here's what two of them had to say. >> he appealed to me. since he's been in there, he's embarrassed me by his behavior.

he behaves unpresidential. >> i can't imagine how they let him build a club, let alone be in there. >> he has all these grand ideas and there's no follow-through. >> despite trump's behavior and lack of accomplishment, they say, none of the five trump voters would rule out supporting him again. >> i'm still optimistic. he still has a lot of time to prove something. i would still rather have a career politician in there. he's had a harder road because everybody hates him, not just the democrats. >> but you've been pretty tough on him, too. >> i expect a lot out of him. >> member of the house committee and financial services, democratic congressman john delaney in maryland. he is already running for his party's presidential nomination. welcome. >> glad to have you. >> good to be here.

>> i want to talk about the tax bill that passed yesterday in just a second, but i think people would hear he's already in the presidential race. you actually got in this summer, in early august. >> yes. >> what is your message or what should be the national message of democrats, one that didn't work for hillary clinton last year running against donald trump? >> i think we should be the party that wants to return civility to politics, wants to bring back special service, and wants to bring the country back together and start focusing on things we agree on. we always talk to things we don't agree on. >> what's an example of that? >> the infrastructure. the country broadly agrees we need much more agreement in infrastructure. it will create jobs, it will improve the lives of citizens. that's what we should be focused on. but we're not doing that. we continue talking about these

divisive issues. that's an example of things we should be doing. >> what about divisive issues? are you talking about social issues? you don't think we should go so hard left on those or not put them out front? >> i think the problem with the democratic party is we're often a thousand flowers blooming. we have a lot of issues we care about, but in the end it's about equal pay and opportunity for their children. >> we just heard your colleague, congressman ryan, ripping the tax bill to shreds. what do you object to in the bill? >> i think obviously the bill disproportionately is an advantage for wealthy americans. the thing i object to in the bill is it's not solving the principal problem in the country right now. the principal problem right now is we're not investing in infrastructure and human capital. they're using a strategy that was employed 40 by ronald reagan and vic

bradley. right now we have no shortage of capital invested in this economy. our economy has been cut in half. we haven't invested in human capital. there are 7 million jobs backgr business. isn't lowering the corporate tax rate a good ideas for companies that then hire more people and that's a way to grow the economy? >> it is, but it should be done -- right now the rpt co-tax rate on average that we pay in this country is very consistent with our competitors. we talk about 35%. in fact, on average, they pay in the low 20s. so the way to get the corporate tax rate down is to eliminate deductio deductions, not to just cut the rate. it clearly would be better to have the corporate tax rate lower. if you ask ceos what's the issue they're facing, it's not the tax code. it's the shortage of workers, the skills gap, the fact the public schools aren't producing kids that have the skills they need. these are the central issues. what we should be doing as part of tax reform is not try to solve a problem that existed 40

years ago when, in fact, the marginal tax rates were really high and there were a lot of tax shelters. what people were doing is investing in non-economic investments and capital wasn't flowing efficiency. we should be using our tax code to encourage the behavior we need to grow our economy, more int infrastructu infrastructure, more human capital. that's what you need to create based on technological development. >> watching that focus group, the trump voters who seemed really broken, just totally depressed and disappointed. and yet they still might support him again. >> yeah. >> what does that say about the democratic party and about who even potentially could be an inspirational figure? >> it says we're not speaking to the american people about what they care about. i think what the american people

are dying for is someone to bring us together, to bring competence to government, focus on some of the things we agree on, and to really be almost with a singular focus on the things that move most americans which is their job, their pay and opportunity for the children. every time we're not talking about -- >> it's not happening right now, is it? i can't -- i couldn't believe what i watched there. it was the saddest thing i've ever seen. >> but it's moving. they were sold the con. you can see the realization -- >> there's nowhere to go. >> what you heard is they were upset with the behavior more than anything else. they're still hopeful for some new ideas. what i would ask you, running for president, we talk about this country, but what about the party itself? how do you bring the democratic party behind you from the different factions? >> i think the voters often decide this. i think the voters are in different places than where party leadership is. some of the things i talk about running for president, the first hundred days only doing things on a bipartisan basis, having

the president go to congress once a quarter and debate the congress, just like the prime minister does in great britain, three hours prime time television, to get to the truth. talking about the country, half the people are not entirely wrong about what they believe. that's the leadership the country is looking for and that's the kind of leadership i think the president should be providing. that's the kind of leadership i think could get the democratic party back in a position where we're winning elections. look at virginia. ralph northam was true to who he is, authentic to the kind of human being he is and the voters embraced. this is a huge opportunity for the democratic party to conduct themselves in the way the american people looking for. >> congressman john delaney, thanks for being on the show. >> thank you. we continue our conversation on sexual harassment in the wake of allegations against a growing list of prominent men of which senator al franken is the

latest. the senate judiciary committee is trying to get russia-related documents from jared kushner. we'll tell you what documents senators say are missing. "morning joe" is coming right back. to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. -♪ a little bit o' soul, yeah

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al franken is apologizing after accusations he kissed and groped a woman in 2006. senator bob menendez dodged a conviction and roy moore got slipping support in alabama and support is all but gone in washington. we'll get the very latest on all of that and some major developments surrounding michael flynn and jared kushner. that's all straight ahead on this friday morning. good morning everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it's november 17th, joe is on assignment this morning. with us we have national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc john heilemann. donny deutsch is here and republican strategist and political commentator -- >> once and for all. viewers want to know why you do that? does she hate you? >> because you're reprehensible in some ways and i like to just sort of feel it when i say it. >> okay. what are the ways i'm

reprehensible. >> the question is in what ways are you not reprehensible. >> just when you're donny, it's fun. >> tell them it's fun, not real hatred. >> we need to analyze. susan del pers i don't is here and in washington nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of -- >> dckc/dc. >> willie, well done. thank you for doing that. >> wolfman jack. >> that was good. i was expecting it from heilemann. >> i knew willie would step up. >> there is so much to talk about, let's start with the alabama senate race which will go on as planned on december 12th. alabama's governor kay ivy saying yesterday she will not move the date of the election. it means that republican nominee

roy moore has little over three weeks to make up ground on democrat doug jones. if the new folks news poll is accurate, it shows jones leading moore by eight points among likely voters in the state. 78% of republican likely voters say they would vote for moore, while 13% say they'd vote for jones. jones is doing considerably well among women voters, 58% of women said they will vote for jones. only 32% say they'd vote for moo moore. also, 69% of women voters under 45 say they will back jones in next month' election. when likely voters were asked about moral character, 56% said jones had a strong moral character. 41% said roy moore and 40% said luther strange had strong moral

character. yesterday white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders says president trump found the allegations troubling, but repeatedly said trump would leave the decision to support moore up to alabama voters. >> the president believes that these allegations are very troubling and should be taken seriously. he thinks that the people of alabama should make the decision on who their next senator should be. that's also something in a decision that the people of alabama need to make, not the president, whether or not they want roy moore to support them in the senate. these are something that should be taken very seriously and the people of alabama should be the ones to make the decision on whether or not to support roy moore. the president supported the decision by rnc to withdraw resources from this race, but feels it's up to the people of alabama to make the decision. look, as i've said, the president believes this is a decision for the people of alabama to make, not one for him to make. >> of course, president trump

leapt on to twitter to go after al franken when that photo came out yesterday, but still has not personally spoken about roy moore. joining us now from montgomery, alabama, covering the race, msnbc's von hilliard. this is a regular thing we're doing every morning. we have a new poll out that shows eight-point lead for doug jones, a fox news poll. still roy moore's hardened supporters are sticking by him. what's it look like on the ground? >> reporter: i think we need to be clear and take a step back. this is day nine since the allegations came out, the first ones in "the washington post." i think it needs to be repeated over and over now that roy moore is running a campaign not focused on politics and not focused on issues, but on delegitimizing the accusations of these women. he said yesterday that the press has not asked him a question about actual issues, about the military, the economy. and i think we need to be clear that we have made those attempts. roy moore has not done an interview with the media since that hannity interview, and he

has not answered the simple question, have you ever touched, kissed or dated a teenage girl. he was again asked yesterday at a press conference in birmingham where there was about 20 people that came up, faith leaders that came up and spoke on his defense as well as trying to -- what were they doing? delegitimizing the women. they also were talking about issues such as gay terrorists and homosexual sodomy will bake down those who partake in it. some mentioned ungodly republicans like john mccain and mitt romney. once roy moore got to the microphone, he spoke for about 60 seconds, said we're here to take down mitch mcconnell, that this is all untrue. then he followed up by taking questions, but, of course, when it came down to what the questions were, it's about these allegations and whether he's actually ever touched a teenage girl. what did he do? walked down the hallway refusing to answer. this is a man running a campaign, he set it up, it's us against the forces of evil. roy moore has called it the

forces of evil. this is what the alabama voters are looking at and having to decide, whether the man they've known for several decades is the roy moore they believe him to be or will they side with mitch mcconnell, the swamp, the media, the, quote, forces of evil. >> there's a jeremy peters piece that reads, there was a time when disowning a candidate accused of sexually abuses a 14-year-old girl was fairly straight pour ward. we're living in a parallel universe, for the people who support roy moore, it's not about the accusations, they don't believe the accusations based on the source. they believe they're democratic operatives or pushed out by democratic operatives. this is protecting the tribe at all costs even if it means questioning -- >> the source, let's be clear, is not "the washington post." the source was nine women, nine women, some voted for trump, not

political, nothing to gain and everything to lose by coming forward, everything to lose. the level of evil -- i would ask everybody at home to watch, i don't know if they're playing the clips of the rally, the fire and brimstone of these men and women of faith, literally coming on and calling the communist democrats and the evil left wing. this is a man that's been accused by nine women of underage molestation, underage molestation, underage molestation. it's stunning, it's frightening. where is the evil -- where are we? where have we come? >> we're in strange times. >> where are we. to context lies this party -- we used to be a country that protected the weak, protected children. we're going to try and protect the environment with the epa, try to protect consumers with regulation, try and protect people with health care, try and protect elephants from being

slaughtered. every evil thing you can be doing, every bad guy, good guy -- you watch the goose stepping in south korea and go those are the bad guys. i was watching yesterday these people, we're becoming the bad guys. all i ask is that people of alabama make a decision of who you are. if the republicans can't find the moral compass, find the political compass because you, people will brand you the party of the pedophile. you will be the party of the pedophile. >> are we here, susan, to sort of broaden the conversation and be as honest as possible? i think it's really hard these days to have anonymous conversations about sexual harassment. no matter what you say -- i'm finding myself in a lot of private conversations with people on both sides of this and it is a minefield. i will say, didn't this start long before even bill clinton, but i will say with bill clinton in many ways, who, can i say,

sexually harassed an intern in the white house. >> according to kristen gillibrand, senator from new york, you absolutely can say that. >> to be fair this isn't roy moore, republican alabama -- this is what happens in places where republicans are. this has been happening for decades, it's been accepted as a norm. >> these are underage children. it's all horrible. these are underage children. >> absolutely. we can draw that line for sure. that would be a crime, that would be a crime on every level. but aren't we here because norms have been accepted that have been beyond the pale for a very long time? >> we are, but we're at a really interesting point because now these women came forward. guess what? every woman who is coming forward, the presumption is we believe them. >> never used to be that way. >> it never was that way. listening to especially the al franken comments, more of the workplace kind of sexual harassment versus the

molestation comments or concerns, one thing i started to realize is how many pats on the bum did i get or how many times did we hear stay away from this one. it was just the norm. it was a matter of a little bit of sur vooifl. it's not that i'm making a me-to comment. but it was just the way it was accepted and no one wanted to rock the boat. i think we're still going to see some issues in washington, especially women who are scared to come forward because there's so many other implications. you don't want to be the one to take down your party, for example. women are feeling safe now, and that is probably one of the more significant things that we're seeing in this climate. >> still ahead on "morning joe," president trump hasn't said much or really anything about the roy moore scandal, but he sure was quick to tweet about al franken. we'll break down that story which somehow roger stone knew was coming before anybody else. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we want to turn to another big story this morning. yesterday a radio news anchor accused democratic senator al franken of forcibly kissing and groping her a decade ago. we actually got an early tip that the story was about to break from roger stone, the former campaign advisor to donald trump. although he's banned from twitter, an account connected to him say, quote, roger stone said it's al franken's time in the barrel. franken next in a long list of democrats to be accused of grabby behavior. how did he know that? that was posted around 1:00 a.m., hours before the franken allegations broke. how did he know that? >> we'll have much more on that coincidence to this story in

just a moment. first, the accusation. lee ann tweeden said it happened in 2006 during a reversal when they were both on tour overseas with the uso. >> he mashed his lips against my face and stuck his tongue in my mouth so fast. all i can remember is his lips were really wet and it was slimy. i remember i pushed him off with my hands. i rememberi almost punched him. because every time i see him my hands clench into fists. i'm sure that's why. i said if you ever do that to me again, i'm not going to be so nice about it the second time, and i just walked out away from him. and i walked out. i want to find a bathroom and i wanted to rinse my mouth out. >> tweeden released this photograph yesterday showing franken grabbinger in the chest while she slemt. initially franken released a short statement saying he remembers the rehearsal differently adding, quote, i

send my sen seerest apologies to leeann. the photo was intended to be funny, but it wasn't. in a second longer statement he wrote, quote, i don't know what was in my head when i took that picture. it doesn't matter. there's no excuse. i look at it now and feel disgusted with myself. it isn't funny, completely inappropriate. >> tweeden said yesterday she accepts senator franken's apology. in his second statement franken said he would gladly cooperate with an investigation. fellow senator amy klobuchar said this should not have happened, i strongly condemn this behavior and the senate ethics committee must open an investigation. senate majority leader chuck schumer said sexual harassment is no appropriate and should

never be tolerated. here are some other reactions. >> the statement that al made, i think is an appropriate statement. he's asking for an vangs on himself. >> sexual harassment is inappropriate in every circumstance in every way, whomever is involved. >> the behavior is unacceptable. i think the idea of having the ethics commission take it up is -- that's what you have an ethics committee for. and i'm happy that he has said, yeah, i'll cooperate. >> president trump also weighed in on twitter last night writing, the al franken stein picture is really bad, speaks a thousand words. where do his hands go in pictures two, three, four, five and six while she sleeps? i don't know, maybe he could tell us in the tapes we got from "access hollywood." to think just last week he was lecturing anyone who would listen about sexual harassment and respect for him.

lesley stahl tape? the president's comment about lesley stahl appears to reference a 1995 "new york magazine" article about a discussion between "saturday night live" writers where franken suggests a joke about a scenario where stahl is assaulted. in his book, franken says the extremely dark joke was never intended to air on television. kasie hunt, what are you hearing on the hill? >> mika, this is a situation where you showed some democrats on camera talking about this for the most part. i would say there were a lot of people running away from the cameras, democrats who don't want to talk about this. but i do think that there is a sense that, you know, this is not -- there's a certain level of unsurprise i think that the overall sexual harassment story is reaching capitol hill. we've been talking about this for the last week and a half.

jackie speier who franken's accuser referenced in her press conference has come for ard and said this is a huge problem. she told her own me-too story. susan touched on this earlier in the conversation, there are a lot of women who are afraid to name names in the context of capitol hill and politics because of the -- it's the way the town is. it's a small town, your reputation is everything. they don't want to say anything because they're afraid they'll never work in politics again. lee ann tweeden gave voice to that when she said ten years ago i felt i could never tell the story because i was told i'd never work in this job again. now she's in a position of power, whose job is not contingent on a future politician deciding to hire her on a staff or for a campaign. she is able to come out and tell this story. i think for every story like this where somebody is willing to come out and say it, there are -- it seems to me dozens of

women. i have talked to quite a few of them over the course of the last week or so who has stories to tell and who are afraid to tell them. i have to tell you, this is not a partisan problem. that's one thing, you saw the president tweeting about this. on the other hand, when it comes to roy moore, he said the people of alabama need to make up their minds, hasn't said a word. people take this and make this about a party. this is not about partisan politics. this is about the bad behavior of men, wide spectrum and to varying degrees. the reason women are so afraid to say anything because they know it's going to get politicized immediately. whether that will change, clearly we're in a significant cultural moment. so far it's not changing in my conversation. people are still afraid. >> i think it's about the bad behavior of men, but the evolving strength of women to own their voices and to feel

comfortable talking about something that used to be in the shadows, about something that would get them attacked. now it's something that makes them part of a bigger movement, something potentially transformational. i think this is a very perilous time for this movement that needs to go in the right direction. back now to the roger stone part of the story. as we mentioned, the former trump campaign adviser is banned from twitter. yesterday an account connected to him posted what roger stone saying it's al franken's time in the barrel. franken next in a long list of democrats to be accused of grabby behavior. that was posted around 1:00 a.m., hours before the allegations broke. incidentally "time in the barrel" is the same language stone used to reference john podesta's leaked e-mails in the 2016 race before wikileaks released those e-mails. john heilemann, i'm just not --

i'm not going to play the coincidence game. what's going on? >> i have no idea. >> does it seem to be -- >> right now -- i have no idea. roger stone is a guy that has a lot of connections in the media. these stories are being pursued across the world of politics. >> how would he know? >> the stories pursued by a lot of people, a lot of gossip going around. >> a lot of opposition research being done? >> again, i have no idea. i don't know the answer to the question. i know people plugged into the world of media and politics are hearing a lot of gossip about a lot of people being pursued. >> i want to ask susan and mika and casey this question. any of this behavior against women is hep ensable and unacceptable. that's a given. you use the word degrees, and this is not partisan. this is going to continue to happen. every guy is going, okay, what in my life did i ever -- do we

have to separate and start to put degrees -- the difference, both reprehensible, but degrees of somebody who nine women come forward, molested underage children or somebody who forced a kiss on the woman. both bad. i don't want letters that i'm mar marginalizing what happened with al franken. do we need to delineate the behavior, very surs one person that comes forward and i apologize. do we put it all in one bucket. i'm asking you guys. >> there are laws. to talk about the degrees, it also means we have to recognize when women are coming forward. there are often reasons why we wait -- women wait so long, because of their careers, like in the al franken case or because they're young and by the time they get older and grow up in the towns and don't want to put their children through it,

so it sometimes takes time. the best thing, the most important thing as women come forward -- >> we're in an amazing moment right now. >> i guess what i'm saying is those degrees are already determined. >> they're not. because right now we in the media are putting those guys in the same bucket, the same story, men behaving terribly. >> i think the public absolutely does react differently to a child molester than someone caught trying to forcibly kiss somebody. >> both bad. i'm going to get letters about this. i know i am. >> both are bad. i would argue what would we make of the case of al franken if there wasn't the photo? would it have been treated the same exact way because he was an elected official? would it have been part of the workplace. that's what i think his first statement was the way it was, is because he said it was part of a skit he was dancing around.

but the photo was so damning, and you look at the front page of the tabloids in new york, it's all over the place. that does make a difference, and more importantly how the public reacts to it. >> such a sensitive -- it's so hard to even -- it's so hard to talk about. >> some conservative voices are pumping the brakes. i think i'm going to ask you a really tough question, before lumping in the allegations against senator franken with those brought against alabama senate candidate roy moore. fox's brit human has said franken basically admitted what his accuser said and apologized, big difference from moore. that in response for a tweet that asked human why he didn't seem eager to find franken guilty as he did with moore. amanda carpenter said what does the senate investigation committee have to investigate.

we have the story, a photo and an apology. this from msnbc contributor charlie sykes, with all the republicans pounding al franken to resign because of the story, it really does open up the question of, well, then, what about donald trump? if we believe all the other women in all the other cases, why do we not believe women who accused him? it's a very good question. and then in the middle of all of this, there's a lot of generational changes happening here, really good for women. the women's movement has produced incredible results including this moment where women are speaking out. are there times -- i'm not going to ask you the question. i'm just going to say this. that we have to look at what the goal is here. what's the goal? what are we trying to do? i think the goal is to shine the light on really bad behavior, really poor form, really scary

moments for women that derail their careers, and we need to create an environment where everyone feels safe, where this behavior is shunned, where it's unwelcome and where it's prevent ed. is the goal to bring people down based on politics or hate? there are cases that are proven, where there are settlements, where there's evidence, and the sexual predator has been brought down. harvey weinstein. there are cases where the predator flour risched and continued to be the president of the united states. talking about bill clinton where the woman were attacked, where they were settled with and their lives were ruined. monica lewinsky and forever stamped with a scarlet letter. this is what we've been dealing with on both sides of the aisle. what's the goal. we have a friend of the show who is no longer on the show because of this behavior, that he admits

and he apologizes for. al franken apologizeds. i'm not being ideological or siding with anybody. i believe the women. but what are we doing with these apologies? >> i think the ultimate goal is -- it's twofold. >> do we accept them? >> that's what the settlements were originally about, was to scare people, men -- >> women ended up feeling victimized because of those settleme settlements, now non-disclosures are being considered a way of victimizing women. what do we want? >> we're into the next step. we want women to speak out so men know we're going to speak out and they will not behave that way. following that, after probably a generation of fear honestly, is that we see they simply don't behave because they know it's not acceptable. >> who is the judge, the jury and the cops in all these cases. right now if the story is big

enough and flies enough, the career is over. >> what they're willing to tolerate and what they're not. let's not forget, especially when it comes to politics, 51% of this country, women voters, we have a say, and we're starting to use the voice, and it's -- not to get catchy here, it's about knowing your value, exactly what you've been talking about, by saying it's okay, i have the right to be in a workplace. >> own it, in the moment. in the moment. >> the goal is to signal to men that the boys club is closed, that you cannot do this. you can't get away with it anymore. >> in that reality, do we bring people down one by one, or the ones that want to address their behavior, do we bring them to the table? >> i think the public has a pretty good sense. there will be casualties. to willie's point, net, net, net, a new generation of men behaviorally will have a chip in

their brain. >> shear the tough question then, do you worry, do you know, do you feel that the way you were around -- >> every man, every man -- >> hold on. the way you were around women 30 years ago is a little different, don any, than the way you are now? >> a million percent. >> should you be brought down for the way you were 30 years ago, i want to know? >> should i be brought down if i tried to kiss a woman? should my life end because i did that 30 years ago? i hope not. i think in my case, a lifetime feminism and blah, blah, blah, loving women and elevating women versus a man who for his entire lifetime was chasing underage children. >> there's a difference. >> every man, if their entire life was being filmed, has done an inappropriate thing in the workplace. >> what's happening now, susan, you talked about having to endure the pats on the butt, the

women coming out. >> oh, my gosh, i got cupped. >> women talking about things they're uncomfortable with, they're doing because my daughter doesn't have to get patted on the butt. i'm so greateful for that. my daughter will not endure those comments, those looks, that behavior. >> a great moment in time. >> and everyone's son will be brought up not to do it. that's equally as important. >> that segment went about four times longer than we planned. we will continue to talk about this in the days and weeks to come. it's such an important conversation. up next, "new york times" columnist brett stephens joins the table. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪

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the "wall street journal" is reporting there was a subpoena issued to president trump's campaign requesting russia related documents from a dozen top officials in october. the subpoena is the special council's first official order for information from the campaign. meanwhile, there are new developments this morning concierge michael flynn and jared kushner. joining us, columnist for "the new york times," brett stephens, political correspondent covering national security and foreign policy, natasha bertrand. and msnbc justice and security analyst matthew miller. matt, let's start with you. what is hoping to be obtained, what has not been brought out? >> i think what we see here is you have to start with the fact that mueller's team requested

these documents from the campaign months ago and presumably some had been turned over. last month they decided to go a step further and issue a subpoena which, if you don't return documents under a subpoena, you can be charged with obstruction of justice. what that usually means is they don't trust that they were getting everything they were supposed to get based on voluntary requests. you can see kauai they would think that. you saw jared kushner omit a number of meetings with russians, not turning over all the documents. you've seen repeated lie after lie after lie and omission after omission by everyone on the team. mueller decided, look, we're not going to trust your word on this matter. we'll send a subpoena and if you don't comply, i can charge you with a crime for failure to do so. >> i'll ask eegt of you to chime in, matt or natasha. are we at the point where where

you forget to plug in certain things and it's fair game that he might have, or where it looks like he's willfully withheld documents that are pertinent? >> it would seem this way if this were the first time it happened. he has had to update security clearance four times. this has clearly become a pattern and i think that's the reason why chuck grassley and dianne feinstein found the need to braft this letter out to every reporter, to really put jared kushner on notice, if this happens again, it's really not going to be okay. >> matt? >> look, you might get the benefit of the doubt the first time you fail to remember something, the first time you don't disclose a meeting. you don't get it on the second time, don't get it on the third time, certainly not on the fourth time. that's where we're at with jared kushner. it's the same standard that flies to jeff sessions. you might give him the benefit of the doubt the first time. on the fourth occasion of failing to disclose a meeting

with russian officials, no one is going to trust that was anything but intentional. >> disclosure requirements are incredibly onerous when you go to work in government. >> what do you mean onerous? >> incredibly extensive. every single contact you've had. kushner has a case where when you're on the campaign and meeting literally hundreds of people a day, it's quite possible. your life is different than the way most of us lead it. own the other hand, a party that screamed bloody murder ability the clinton's campaign's failure to release e-mails, ought to subject itself to exactly the same standard. the defense consistently provided for kushner is either that disclosure requirements are too onerous or it's an honest mistake. either hold him to an excruciating standard or not.

that's the standard to which they held the clintons. >> seems like that argument can be held about every conversation we've had this morning, including sexual harassment. >> i think the problem for kushner is the things he's failed to disclose, it's not that there may be onerous requirements, but if the thing you're leaking out of your documents are the things that are controversial and at issue, that becomes the problem. >> natasha, think about all the things happening now, think about the kushner issue, the don junior issue, there's what's happening with mike flynn, obviously the manafort indictment. these are -- they're building up towards the pinnacle here which is obviously the person who sits in the oval office. talk about how you think it is that mueller is building by putting each one of these people in increasing degrees of legal jeopardy. what's the end game there and what are the next phases as he gets closer and closer to the gentleman behind that big desk.

>> he's clearly trying to get to the people who he thinks is most legally vulnerable. he wants to do that because he wants more information about what actually happened during the campaign. it's clear that the white house and the trump administration is not going to be forthcoming about all the contacts they have with russia during the election. it's made very clear by the fact there's this drip drip constantly. every week we learn about a new e-mail. george papadopoulos came out of nowhere. i think mueller's strategy is to really scare these people into giving him more information about what he really wants to know which is russia's interference in the election and whether or not the campaign colluded with moscow to undermine clinton. in terms of the end 'em ga, mueller is going to have to prevent his findings to congress. it's unclear whether he'll have to go after these individual people and leave it at that or find some conspiracy he can present which would put the president in legal jeopardy.

in terms of whether or not he's going to interview trump himself, experts i've spoken to said it would be very, very surprising if he did not. >> matt miller, i'm curious about michael flynn, every day there's a different angle to this story about him. he did offer -- didn't he offer himself up in exchange for immunity. what is the story with flynn at this point? what is the big question. what is it that he could potentially reveal. >> i think prosecutors are putting as much pressure on him as possible, not just because of the criminal liability he has which could relate to the scheme, a kidnapping or expedition scheme where he might have been willing to take $15 million from the turkish government. it could be his contacts with russian officials. it all goes to his relationship with the president. they want to get flynn for his own criminal liability, but also because he is one of the central witnesses against the president of the united states. maybe for something that happened during the campaign, but certainly for the one thing we know trump is under

investigation for personally, and that's obstruction of justice. his initial acts in the obstruction of justice case all started after the sally yates warning about michael flynn that the white house ignored. it was the day after that warning that donald trump first met with jim comey and asked him for a loyalty pledge, a few weeks after when he met with comey and asked him to back off the flynn investigation. flynn is central to the case against the president himself. that's why i think you see mueller coming down on him as hard as he is. >> one last provocative question for brett who has a column -- >> as i do twice a week. >> this particular column which makes the claim that, in your words, not mine, steve bannon is bad for the juice. let's describe why that might be true? >> in the jewish political world, there is a corner of it which has consistently cheered the trump administration and people like steve bannon, a segment of the alt right, the

breitbart right, being so pro israel that that is enough to cover for the white nationalist, borderline neo-nazi associations of prominent people in breitbart, like their former tech editor, milo june nap laos. it's important to point out even if bannon considers himself a pro israel figure, you can't be a pro israel figure because you see them as a white ethno nationalist state holding out against is its neighbors. support has to be predicated on the fact that it's a state that brings together a jewish identity but a liberal democratic identity that respects the rights of all its citizens. some jews, i think it's dangerous for american jews to affiliate with that brand of alt right politics which otherwise engages in just the kind of c conspiracy theories, globalism, the corporatist media, international bankers which always finds a way, i don't know how, at getting back at those,

quote, unquote, ruthless cosmopolitans whose identity is well known to a lot of people. >> we'll be reading brett's new column in "the new york times." matt miller, thank you very much. >> they say i'm bad for the jews sometimes. i'm jewish, which is not a complimentary. >> you're bad for everyone. >> that makes me feel better. >> i can't give a snide comment about you. i'm giving you a stay. up next, new comments this morning from treasury secretary steve mnuchin on tax reform. please, please, i hope it comes with photos. but does he have anything to say about the criticism over this photo with him and his wife and the money. >> my god. >> look at that. >> keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ video-game dance music

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new comments from the treasury secretary on the republican's tax reform bill. cnbc's sara eisen joins us live from the new york stock exchange. >> treasury secretary steven mnuchin is feeling good this morning, telling cnbc, we have every reason to think tax reform will go to the president's desk before christmas. that's his new time line. they want to get this bill done before the end of the year. now, i will say that the treasury secretary has made some ambitious targets on dates before. remember in march he said tax reform would pass by august. that didn't happen. but we did get a big milestone yesterday when the house passed

their version of the bill, now of course as you know goes to the senate which is due to vote on their version of the bill a little after thanksgiving. there are some key differences and one that we are watching carefully is how the debate is going to play out over salt, the state and local income tax deduction, that goes away completely in the senate. in the house, you can keep a $10,000 property deduction. also the individual cuts expire after a few years in the senate. so they'll have to reconcile the differences after the votes, but clearly they've got some momentum out there. he didn't address the photo that you mentioned, the bond villain photo. but he did say that the millionaires are going to bear the brunt of the tax burden in this plan. i think it was her outfit which caused the viral photo. anyway, beyond the tax reform, i do want to also mention media speculation is hot in terms of m & a. we have learned here at cnbc two more suitors are emerging for --

to buy a majority of the business of 21st century fox and that includes comcast, our parent company, which owns nbc universal, and verizon. this is after cnbc's david faber reported last week walt disney was in talks to buy a majority of 21st century fox. the upshot, it does look like rue put murdoch's media conglomerate is in play. and there are a number of interested parties. not talking about fox news and fox business and fox sports, more the entertainment studio, the international assets, mika, and some of the other cable tv stations. >> all right, cnbc's sara eisen, fascinating. thank you very much. as we go to break, a look at some of the stories expected to pick up steam today. among them, the mounting worries on wall street over a slide in nfl viewership. president trump has been hot on that issue and we'll see if he has anything to add. much more "morning joe" in just a moment. to most, he's phil mickelson pro golfer.

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openness between the genders. >> right. >> but at the same time understand the atrocities that have happened over the years and how do we behave better without throwing the baby out with the bath water. >> i feel like we've got to be able to have the conversation honestly without people running to their corners and taking sides and attacking. you know, i said a few things this morning and i went on twitter and everybody's like, you're mike pence. i'm like, no, i'm just introducing ideas into the conversation. >> i know mike pence. you are no mike pence. >> but there's this lurch in this specific area of conversation on this topic to one side or the other, which is not good for anybody. and not good for making a better safer working environment, where men are part of the equation. just as much as women. men are required to take responsibility. but we have to talk to men and get them to talk back to us in order for this to happen. and it's hard to have it.

final thoughts, it doesn't have to be about this. >> just donald trump does a lot of things that are inconsistent, hypocritical. the notion he refuses to comment on roy moore and then immediately jumps all over the al franken news on twitter just strikes me as just ill lus strawtive of just incredible -- let's just call it historic inconsistency. >> many problems. brett. >> i think judgment and understanding different degrees of bad behavior is going to be very important -- >> and that's hard. >> and it's hard but if this is all we learn about al franken, there's a universe of difference between him and harvey weinstein or him and a -- >> roy moore. >> roy moore, so off with all their heads approach i think -- i fear backfires and is unjust. that being said, let's restore the concept of gentlemanliness to the center of male behavior. >> i love it. there's a lot out this morning on the russia investigation and different angles there. natasha, where do you see it going next? >> i'm curious to see how trump

reacts as to the investigation closing in on people like hicks, flynn. is he going to try to muddy the water saying russia didn't really interfere in the election, is he going to kind of rile up support in his base so he has that buffer in case it does get dangerously close to him. >> and how far does that oath go that those are willing to take. that does it for us this morning. what a week? happy friday. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> what a week indeed. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, disturbing allegations against senator al franken. globe i groping, kissing and a crude picture right there. >> i was angry. anger was like kind of my first response. like belittled. ashamed. >> president trump weighing in, slamming franken. while staying mum on roy moore. but with less than one month until a special election, new polls show the republican candidate losing ground. and moore refusing to bow out. >> this