let me get the final seconds to eli. you covered the white house. any images surprise you at his point? >> not surprising. i can imagine the reaction to the segment we just did being a big shrug. they don't care. look at this, think the president is strong with his base. whether it looks like populism, it's in the eye of the beholder. his brand is "the apprentice" it's sort of baked into his identity. we're not in that world. >> not normal anymore. my thaurnnks to you all. that does it for "deadline: white house". i'm nicolle wallace. if it's friday, this is not a moment -- it's a movement. tonight, the president won't talk about roy moore but he has plenty to say about the al franken accusations. why? >> roy moore's allegations are eight days old.

plus, the investigation zeroing in on the president's inner circle. and the white house is pushing for a christmas miracle. can the president sign the tax bill by the holiday? >> i'm hopeful people can work it out and everybody, even the democrats will want to vote for it. >> this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. good friday evening. i'm peter alexander in washington for my friend chuck todd. welcome to "mtp daily." if the week proved anything, it's a battle for the moral high ground, neither side can say they have it. some realized that today, some obviously don't or perhaps don't want to. president trump remained silent about the allegations facing republican roy moore bought quickly jumped on allegations facing the democrat al franken. he called the senator, al frankenstein and suggested franken is a hypocrite for past

statements ar sexual harassments and the need to respect women. yes, this is the same president who's faced multiple allegations of misconduct, and who was caught on tape bragging about groping women and using his own celebrity to get away with it, and, yes, this is salts the same president breaking with leaders in his own party calling for moore to quit. moore denied ales ales allegati sexually harassed women who were teens when he was in his 30s. this about mr. trump's accusations. >> is it also fair to address misconduct made against roy moore by a dozen women? >> the american people spoke loud and clear when they elected this president.

>> how is this different? >> in one case specifically senator franken admitted wrongdoing and the president hasn't. a very clear distinction. >> is this a conversation about sexual allegations for this white house via al franken -- >> it's an uncomfortable conversation for the country. >> meanwhile, moore's side dug in further today. >> so let me set the record straight. even after all of the attacks against me, against my family, against the foundation and now against my husband, he will not step down. >> and in a sign of how tribal our politics have become, this afternoon alabama's republican governor kay ivey told reporters she believes moore's accusers, but she's voting for him anyway. >> we need to have a republican in the united states senate to vote on the things like supreme court justices, other

appointments that the senate has to confirm and make major decisions. and so that's -- that's what i plan to do is vote for the republican nominee roy moore. >> kay ivey this afternoon. democrats, meanwhile, taken plenty of shots at roy moore and at the president. the firestorm engulfing senator franken has them reels as well after a news anchor shared this photo saying franken kissed and groped her while sleeping during a uso tour in 2006. franken has since apologized and welcomed a senate ethics investigation into it. his actions reopened deep wounds inside the democratic party. specifically over its handling of past sexual assault allegations against former president bill clinton. democratic senator kirsten gillibrand told the "new york times" she believes bill clinton should have resigned overish the lewinsky affair. remember, gillibrand currently holds the senate seat in new

york vacated by hillary clinton. one of the clintons' closest confidants is livid with senator gillibrand calling her a hypocrite for accepting endorsements and money for the clintons over the years. here's gillibrand in an interview airing this sunday responding to those criticisms. >> ridiculous. and he's wrong. bill clinton did very important things for this country. but my point is about this conversation we are having today, and that we need to have the highest standards for elected leaders and have to change what's happening throughout society, and we have to allow people to tell their stories. that is what this is all about and why the me, too campaign is as powerful and important as it is. >> ultimately, your dilemma. from both sides, if neither has the moral high ground, they are both targets.

from mons gum from montgomery and from tlim. start with you, garrett haake. do establishment republicans have any real options left to try to stop roy moore? >> reporter: honestly, they don't. today's announcement by the governor not only would she not delay the election, do anything to push it back but in fact would vote for roy moore closed one of the doors for washington republicans to alter the trajectory of this race. earlier this week the alabama republican be party said they would continue to support roy moore, and moore himself says he won't step aside. republicans in d.c. are essentially left with the prospect of a democrat winning that seat or girding for roy moore to show up in the senate and deciding then what to do with this person who almost to an individual senator they have said does not belong here. >> and vaughn, racking up alabama miles. posing this question to you. there today, heard the alabama

gerch e governor saying she believes moorp accusers but will vote for him anyway. is that a shot in the arm? how is that viewed across that state? >> reporter: peter, it's interesting she's really the first major republican we've heard make that argument. we heard it one year ago in donald trump's candidacy among republican, hold your nose and vote for the party. essentially, hold on to the senate majority. too important of a seat to be too concerned about an individual's morals. the republican party in alabama much more focused on denying the allegations in the moore campaign, much more on delegitimizing the accusations in the first place. the question in alabama heading into the final three weeks, how many republicans can they get to pull the governor ivey approach, hold your nose and veote for th republican as well as making the case roy moore is telling the truth. i talked to multiple women at the rally you saw. about 50 women stood on the

steps beside her this afternoon and i talked to multiple of them after the event. my main question we continue and should push with these individuals is, why do you not believe these women? wipe do you not believe the accusations that have come forward and inkritrigued by the responses. they believed it's the democrats, the swamp, essentially a conspiracy tangled nine different women living in different parts of the state. some, very faith-based, believing the devil is behind this effort to defeat roy moore, a man they've known 30 years to be a good christian man and that's the man they want to vote for on december 12. >> complicating this on the hill. democrats hit the gas. thought he had republicans on defense. then allegations within the last 24 hours plus about al franken. what is the reaction you're hearing from democrats now as they tree to by to balance the with roy moore with outrage of

wurn one of their own? >> reporter: al franken made it easier tore colleagues admitting to the allegation against him, apologizing for the it and saying he would submit to willingly an ethics investigation into his behavior, giving democrats the opportunity to say we support an ethics investigation and are against his behavior. they are trying to make what is now one alleged act perpetrated by al franken and vaughn said nine accusers now in alabama that the judge there is, the ex-judge there, is refusing to acknowledge at all's they're in a tough spot recognizing there are both sides-ism being done here. leaning into the ethics investigation, a natural response for democrats to say we have a process for this. we're going to go through it. >> vaughn and garrett, gentlemen, thank you. now we visit with both as the story develops. appears to be going nowhere anytime fast. the "new york times" op-ed

columnist michelle goldberg joins us written this week on democrats coming to terms with wrongdoings by member of this own party and david french, senior fellow at the national review institute. thank you both. david, starred with you if i can. the president does not have the moral high ground on the issue of groping and allegations of misconduct. why go after senator franken? >> it's just partisan politics. he is very good at sending red meat to the partisan base. multiple polling show his partisan base doesn't believe the women who have accused president trump of sexual misconduct. just flat out don't believe it. for him, in his mind, there's no down side here. whereas, the reality, he's got every bit the same problem that many other of these powerful men have with multiple credible allegations, but, again when his base flat out doesn't believe it at all, he sees no down side. that's him fighting, standing up

for team red. >> michelle, kind of struck limping lim listening to the briefing. sarah huckabee suggested president trump shouldn't be investigated, because he denied the allegations against him. but franken should be because he fessed up to them? >> you could say neither side has the moral high ground. i argue the democrats, while imperfect, have the high ground. look at the difference to a very different set of allegations. i would be the first to condemn what al frank didn't in the photograph and said i'm not sure he should survive in the senate because of it, but it's nowhere on the scale of what either trump or roy moore have been credibly accused of, yet democrats have not sought to demean and defame his accuser. they've all joined to condemn what he's done and he has admitted it, apologized in no uncertain terms and is now submitting himself to an ethics

process. that's very different than what we see on the other side. >> david, do the democrats have the moral high ground? >> i'm going to dispute that. i'm not going to compare what al franken is accused of to what roy moore is accuseds of. keep something in mind here. the democrats could replace al franken with another democrat easily. there's no net loss to the party, to the causes. i mean, we're talking about here, who's going to go first on showing real principle other than sort of putting out, having this competition on who's going to have the better public statement? the public statements don't really matter. it's the actual action. that's what matters here. and when we have a party that says, you know, we won't even lose a seat, a net loss of a seat here. we're just going to -- but we're going to hold off. sorry. that doesn't impress me. his apologies came after many years when he could have apologized to this accuser in private, for year after year

after year and didn't. i'm not seeing a lot of moral high ground here. >> suggesting democrats may have the moral ground given the way they handle theed al franken, but you wrote bill clinton didn't have a place in decent society and wrote al franken should go. do democrats need to purge their party in effect right now? >> understand, i said, it would be fair if people conclude that because of juanita broaddrick's allegations they decide bill clinton no longer has a place in society. i think the party is purging itself. that's what you're seeing in response to some extent to the, you know, horror and trauma of -- >> what should happen to al franken? >> i've said i think that he should probably resign, even though i would really mourn him going from the senate, because i think he's a great senator, and has done a lot of good for women. you know, precisely because i just don't sort of think that

this party that is mostly a party of women should have to explain away this sort of behavior, should have to submit to this kind of, what about-ism. my feeling is cauterize the wound, and kind of send a message we do believe that groping women is disqualifying. but at the same time -- but i still, despite -- so i think that, but i would still really push back hard against any attempt to draw false equivalencies. >> so, david, to be clear, is forcing moore to quit a must nor republicans right now? >> i think moore, if elected, should be expelled. that man has no business in american government, period, end of discussion. i mean, look, i believe the guy was unfit on multiple grounds before these allegations. now he's -- >> allegations. now he's -- >> the president said leave it to the voters of alabama? >> i know the president set that and i profoundly disagree.

as i said, he is a person not fit to be in american government, period. and republicans have to stop acting as if they give up one junior senate seat for a partial term in alabama somebody's going to throw them into the "hunger games." our politics are not that high stakes and somebody has to go first on showing principle, because we're stuck in this loop that says, you go first. no. you go first. we're waiting for somebody to have some more's backbone here. >> is this a dangerous course? expel roy moore if he become as senator, taking us down a course, who know what's could happen in the future? >> takes us down a course the answer to who know what's could happen in the future is more character and integrity. if we can't stand up to a person more likely than not a child abuser, who can we stan up to? what happens next, after somebody shows principle and moral courage is something good. >> michelle, i was struck by listening to kay ivey, alabama republican governor saying she believes roy moore's accuser but

would still vote for him anyway, because among other things the supreme court potential decisions. justices, may have to select in the future. is that how tribal our politics has become at this point, and what do you make of her comments today? >> to be honest, i kind of want to defend voting on partisan lines, because, of course, that's how tribal our politics are. and most of the time, it's a good calculation that the character of the party in power is more important than the character of your individual member of congress. i mean, i would like to think that any one of us would drop a line at pedophilia, but short of that -- you know, i do think that all of this, you know, you need to put principle above partisanship. partisanship is also a kind of principle. you know? so in a way, i understand the republicans who have a hard time disavowing moore. i just -- again, i think that there's something very

instructive in the different place where is these two parties are willing to draw the line. >> david, are you in agreement? how partisan our politics have become now? should doug jones win this to say something about character? or should the republican win this, roy moore, to demonstrate partisan politics matters and you have to support the person who backs your principles and positions? >> i would like to see anybody draw a line before i judge if that line is correct. i haven't seen anyone draw a line yet. i would say that what we have, it is true partisanship can be a kind of principle. what we have in this country is not the positive sort of partisanship. we have negative partisanship. where we are driving more my hatred of the other than even by the ideas that our side puts out. that is deeply cancerous and destructive. not just to our politics but also to our culture, and it is very important to preserve integrity, respect for women and, of course, respect for children in our culture. putting aside politics. so the stakes here i believe are

beyond senator balances. >> good luck trying to explain this to america's children right now. thank you both. appreciate your time. thanks so much. >> thank you. we'll be back with news of another politician who's out in the wake of sexual misconduct allegations. also, if it's sunday, we're going to delve deep into this defining moment in politics, and culture. we'll talk to democratic congresswoman debbie dingle and republican congresswoman barbara comstock and joined by roy moore supporter. co-chair of donald trump's campaign, carey cooper. that's this sunday. chuck will be back, and we'll be right back with more "mtp daily." that's the new man, huh? yup. getting kinda' close to my ride. wow... now, that's how you make a first impression. they're going to love you... that's ford, america's best-selling brand. hurry in today for 0% financing for 72 months across the full line of ford cars, trucks and suvs! and just announced...get 0% apr for 72 months

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1234r50. welcome back. last week we told you about the cascade of sexual misconduct allegations against politicians that are now rocking governments at both the state and local levels. there are at least 14 different state and local governments where harassment occurred

allegedly and now the state party chairmanen in at least one state is filing allegations against him. florida democratic party chairman stephen bittle resigning today, just one day after politico reported that six former florida democratic party staffers and consultants complained of demeaning behavior. apologizing to all who felt uncomfortable during my tenure at the democratic party. we'll be right back. and this moment in politics have both parties reeling. more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. (clapping) and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. ( ♪ ) because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest. evenyou or joints. something for your heart...

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conversation, sarah huckabee sanders acknowledged. i want your sense of it, if i can. president trump on the receiving side of sexual assault, sexual harassment, multiple allegations, attacks al franken. doesn't attack roy moore. what do we make of this selective outrage? what do we do with that from the president of the united states? >> unfortunate. he's not just the president of united states. a big deal in terms of understanding the impact he has on kids growing up in the society, each watching. also the leader of the united states. it's a problem in politics generally with the culture in politics. the president needs to stand up and say, this is wrong. yes, it's going to put him in an uncomfortable situation but it doesn't excuse him. >> where the president is most vulnerable, joshua? i travelled with him in asia, didn't get a question. i wanted to pose the question what do you say to american men right now in this country who are trying to -- clearly, a lot

of allegations again powerful men in this country. what do you say about what's right and wrong and what appropriate behavior is? he doesn't have credibility in the kwais of a lot of people in in area? >> wise what sarah huckabee sanders said. the president is leaving this to alabamians to decide. right. the "access hollywood" tape is not distant history. the idea he would be able so what roy moore did was wrong, but what i did on tape was okay, that doesn't wash. i think it's great we have more people having this conversation. even al franken saying he's willing to submit to an investigation, but i don't worry so much about the president's role. because of social media, the people who have been affected by sexual harassment didn't need to wait for congress to do anything. #metoo spread organically. we might be in a different day, where the public can say whether or not our gridlocked log jammed congress is ready to do anything, we don't really care. we're on twitter, talking amongst ourselves and you have to follow our lead instead of us

yours. might be a good thing. >> ruth what do you think? sarah huckabee sanders, i was struck by her saying, well, al franken acknowledged what he did. the president denied it, so he's off the hook. >> so we bullied our way and kind of bravadoed -- not a verb. >> we allow it. >> so we can get away with it, and he denied it, case closed. case not closed, by the way, in my view, because we heard the president on tape talking about the way he behaved towards women. then we heard from a number of women on the record describing how he behaved towards them in a way that exactly echoed what he said on tape. why shouldn't we believe them? just because the president denied it? that's not a convincing explanation. i didn't think her explanation, by the way, about why he was, how he was going to leave it to the people of alabama might have been the best possible answer under these uncomfortable circumstances. but excuse me. if he thinks it should be left to the people of alabama, why

was he in there campaigning for a particular primary candidate? he didn't think that should be left to the people of alabama? >> tip the scales -- >> why this one? i was yelling at me tv a while today, i have to say i. trust you have an opinion on al franken. and broadly, about the idea talking about tribalism here now. you understand why americans are so cynical, skeptical of the way politics works when you hear from the republican governor of alabama, i believe the accusers but support this guy because republicans need their policies and need an extra vote in washington. >> at some point republicans need to figure out this is about more than just one election. it's about more than just even two elections. this is about the heart and sol soul of the republican party and movement. >> the establishment. >> heard from mitch mcconnell, yes, got to get out. the republican party, there are divisions within that party. your party. >> and again comes back to the president. leader of the party whether people like it or not and people assume what he says and does is

proxy for the republican party. if the republican party is serious about its brand and serious about building a long-term electoral map that works, then the president's the only one that really can tlaept view. >> and does roy moore give nmor cover here? >> no. no. >> i found this challenging. forced to judge the seriousness of these allegations. this one's worse than another. this is pedophilia, basically going out with young women, doing things with teenagers. right? the circumstances. this is now what we're debating in some ways? >> first of all, the al franken thing doesn't give roy moore any cover. i think roy moore has forgotten if he wants to win and be a senator, he will be part of a deliberative party where he is equal. and the support like the governor of alabama said, appointing federal judges, i

believe in roy moore's case more of a judeo-christian bent. if roy moore wants what he wants, he's not the big dog, is part of a group and needs to be able to make friends. have other senators saying, yeah. i'm with that. he's making enemies and not even there yet. i don't know if the campaign is mindful of that. i don't know if they're playing the long game. if they really want to accomplish his agenda, the fact that al franken is dealing with this -- is accused of this needs to be democrat wialt with for s. roy moore says he didn't do it. might be focusing on winning and not legislating. people supporting him, he's not making a good first impression. >> joshua, i don't think roy moore is thinking about going to the senate to legislate. not in there with lamar alexander and patty murray coming up with a health care plan. he's voting on federal judges who he wouldn't listen to when they ordered him to stop misbehaving on the alabama supreme court.

come on. >> if he wants to be an effective senator. >> he's not there to be an effective senator. there to be a big, loud blowhard. >> a fire brand. >> yeah. >> i agree. >> imagine if not answering questions inality a alitabama, of question once in washington? and al franken. a different opinion whether franken should go? >> i respectfully disagree with michelle and i think we are actually in a situation where it's very important to make distinctions among different degrees of perpetrators here. some conduct is worse than others. roy moore's, i'm not even going to say alleged conduct. i believe the women. roy moore's conduct is worth than al franken's conduct. the consequences, you know, in the criminal law, consequences, everybody doesn't get the death penalty for every crime. everybody should not get the dealt penalty for the sin and wrong of sexual harassment. we don't -- we don't know enough

at this point that he did enough bad things that he should leave. even if it would be more convenient for democrats if he did. >> making for heavy thanksgiving conversation. stay with us. stick with us if you can. right here coming up, howed ba is the mueller probe becoming for this white house? some new details are ahead. hey, man. oh!

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investigation, including special counsel mueller issuing a subpoena to the trump campaign and news a key figure in that donald trump campaign may be ready to talk. we'll be right back.

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i just was thinking, you know, i should, when i ask you, is ambassador kisliak in the room? before i get started here. any russians? anybody been to russia? [ laughter ] got a cousin in russia or something. >> welcome back nap was attorney general jeff sessions earlier today as you saw joking about the russia investigation at the very same time the special counsel's probe seems to be heating up. we learned today that robert mueller's team may soon hear from a potential key player, the man who helped arrange that meeting between the president's son, donald trump jr. and a

group of russians. his name is robert goldstone, publicist with ties to a prominent augs oligarch, helped set up that meeting at trump tower that became the focus of mueller's investigation, at least one of them, and whether the trump team colluded with russians. a source close to goldstone says he's ready to speak with mueller. goldstone's attorney says nothing is presently scheduled and declined to comment further. at the same time, we now know that robert mueller's team issued a subpoena to the trump campaign for more campaign records. related to russia. according to a source with firsthand noknowledge of this matter. the "wall street journal report"ed it caught the campaign by surprise. former attorney general anne millgram is here to break this down. nice to see you. appreciate you being here. >> thank you. >> i want a sense. a couple weeks back an explosive day. george papadopoulos, name is challenging enough. we learned about paul manafort.

about his deputy, protege here and then silence for the last several week. what do you read from that? >> into the silence? >> yes. >> nothing at all. in the course of a very big investigation, something like this where we know that there are a bunch of different areas they're looking at. we know they're looking at, for example, michael flynn and ties with turkey. we know there are issues surrounding obviously now manafort and gates and papadopoulos. we know there are a lot of other questions raised about this meeting with trump junior, kushner and the russian lawyer. and are moving methodically through it, as cases become ripe they're going to charge them, but it's not unusual to have silence like this. >> you talk about the methodiccal nature of this, think highly of robert mueller, worked with him in the past. the way it was initially against manafort, gates and

papadopoulos, this was mueller sending a message of sorts. did you read that as that? >> no. i mean, i really read it as bob mueller doing his job and being sort of matter of fact about they were looking at these folks. they came to a point they believed they could charge manafort and gates and had a full understanding what had happened, walked in and charged them. what i thought was really interesting, as you reported, the papadopoulos plea, 2001. a lot of piecing are there in that tell us mueller knows more than he put -- >> the term to lying to feds. >> the crime papadopoulos pled guilty to. in the statement of that crime, hints ar conversations about, with the russians about getting dirt on hillary clinton's campaign, and so there are sort of things dotted through that statement that i think are really interesting, because it tells us mueller knows more and that that's where at least a part of the investigation is going. >> talk about the newest information. the news we're learning now. these new subpoenas issued for

more campaign documents or records. talk to me about the significance of that and opening to investigators? >> the subpoenas, a matter of course, you would issue subpoenas on these documents. even if lawyers are complying. so i want to make sure it's clear some of this is traditional in an investigation. even a lawyer who is crying with an investigation, a subpoena is a legal document from the grand jury saying you must turn over these things, and it lists specifically what you're looking for. that's the only way someone like the mueller -- prosecutors on the mueller team will know all of that information has been gone through with a fine-tooth comb making sure they get it all out. it could mean, of course, they believe they haven't gone everything. someone disclosed an e-mail or document that hadn't already been turned over and got suspicious. could truly be in the normal course of business. i always do an investigation. >> and willing to speak to

investigators, robert goldstone? interesting? >> of particular interest. we know a lot about that meeting. >> one little voice to weigh on this exactly he said/she said? >> we know in that room, have acknowledgement from trump junior they went in believing there might be dirt on the clinton campaign and that he talked about russian adoptions of course related to the sanctions the u.s. issued against russia. it is very interesting, i think to have more voices telling us what happened in that room, because that is going to be one of the central questions about, there's a high-level meeting. jared kushner is there. trump junior there, manafort there. a number of folks on the russian side and are they actually discussing or is there promise made related to the e-mails? or the sanctions? what transpired? weya narrator in the room and ty cobb, works for the white house, expecting the first round

of interviews to wrap up near thanksgiving. shortly after thanksgiving pup said in the break, this is the first round of interviews. this is the conversation started a couple months ago. should we expect the president of the unite will be interviewed by robert mueller's team? >> very likely he will be. at this point, a lot of indications there were communications with the russian government and not that trump himself was having those communications but that there were communications. and at some point we do know that trump fired comey, and there are, that he publicly stated it related to the russia, it was connected to the russia question. i think to close -- what mueller was impaneled to do. investigate whether the president and campaign had connections to the russian government and wethd werther -- whether the russians interfered with the election? . >> the likelihood of charges? >> very high. very high. >> appreciate your time today. we'll be right back with a senate shouting match, that's after this break here on "mtp

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i come from the poor people. and i've been here working my whole stirnkin' career for peope who don't have a chance, and i really resent anybody saying that i'm just doing this for the rich. >> that's not true. >> all due respect, i get sick and tired -- >> regular order! order! >> we do attack -- >> regular order!

>> middle class -- >> regular order! >> and over and over again. >> and how many time doss we do this before we learn this? welcome back. washington at work, you can see there, things got heated last night as the debate over taxes de1r0volved into a shouting mat. that argument you saw, benefiting from the republican tax bill. the wealthy or middle class. republicans claim the tax overhaul will drastically cut taxes for the middle class. democrats, vrof course, disagre. the house passed its version yesterday along party lines. nbc news analysis shows the trump family can save nearly $1 billion if it becomes law. hoping to have a tax bill on the president's desk by the end of the year. we'll be right back. yeah, they saved us a ton, which gave us a little wiggle room in our budget.

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like the sound effects? right. welcome back. time for "the lid." bring in the panel. thanks for sticking with us. ask you about what our last guest said to us how she expects the president will be interviewed as part of this investigation into russia potential collusion at some point? >> addressing the problem of the slow news day. when the president gets -- look, this whole thing has always been the challenge of this investigation. the drip, drip, drip element of this and always seems to be something new. always on a friday, by the way. we'll see. when that happens, big news. >> and bottom line? go ahead, hard to imagine that not happening as a matter of diligence. you're going to need to -- if you are investigating the issue of a collusion in the russia campaign and bop mueller you don't want to interview him now before the gather all of your facts, but you definitely don't want to -- even if you're going to close up shop with not another indictment in the works, you don't want to look like you

haven't done your due diligence. we will all go berserk when it happens, a big moment, but in and of itself it won't be. it actually will an an indication, if anything, he's coming to the end of his investigation. >> certain because that would be after you have all your ducks in a row. hope hicks is the closest one to the president who is not a trump is expected to be interviewed by robert mueller's team very soon. >> recall the last time a president was interviewed by special counsel, it did not go so well. >> that's for sure with bill clinton. go ahead, joshua. >> i would like to see jeff sessions in the administration not joke about this. the thing he said to the federalist society, that just -- i don't know if somebody should tap him and say this is a serious matter, the american people take it seriously. especially the story has shifted. >> exactly. you should just play it cool. >> i'm with -- i was thinking maybe i'm getting humor impaired

because it's been a long week because i was a little bit offended by that. to take the other approach and do something really unusual, which is defend the attorney general, maybe he was a little bit making fun not of the issue of the russia investigation but making fun of himself. he kind of had a tough week with his recall of russia. >> he's not that funny. that's the thing, he's not a joke smith. >> and the reason this may ring hollow, we're a week away from the president meeting with vladimir putin where he says he takes vladimir putin's side over the intelligence community. >> i withdraw my support for the attorney general and go back -- >> that was quick. >> and return to my lack of humor. >> let me ask you about taxes if i can. obviously a big win, perhaps the biggest moment for house republicans to this point. paul ryan, a big moment for him, of course, the house version of the tax bill passing now. we saw that fiery exchange among some senators on this topic right now. does this get passed?

>> i think it does. i'm optimistic. obviously there's a lot of different things that need to get resolved still, right. the big question do they leave obamacare, the appeal of the individual mandate. >> is that good, the senate, tom cotton pushing this. >> the house side it's not included right now. it's like rolling a grenade into an already very volatile situation. >> it's a good way to get legislation passed. >> you think about it, you have all these interest groups that didn't care about the tax legislation, the insurers, the doctors, we don't like this thing. why bring them into the fight? >> if you're susan collins, lisa murkowski, you have yet another reason to be skeptical about whatever is happening in the tax plan. >> the dynamic was difficult to start with. >> does this give moderates -- scare off republican moderates right now? >> there's plenty to scare off. we've seen some republicans scared off from part of this, the vote in the house, with not being able to deduct state and local taxes. all the house republicans who voted against it were in new york, new jersey, and california

where state taxes are a thing. bringing obamacare into this adds another thing for someone to like or not like. just yesterday and many of the people who commented to us were like my student loans, my donation to my local npr station, state and local taxes. my business. there are all these little paces that can potentially have people scared, and i'm wondering whether or not the larger argument about the tax plan being good for the american people is strong enough so that those moderates -- the people on the fence don't start calling the lawmakers and saying on further review you need to vote no. i don't know if the case is strong enough. >> is this a bill for the middle class? is the middle class the winner? corporations clearly obviously are big winners. >> i do not think the middle class is a winner and i think the really interesting question, republicans have convinced themselves and maybe they're right, that they're desperate this tax bill be passed because if they don't pass this they will have done nothing except forget justice done that they

won't be able to show anything to voters because lord knows it's not going to be a lot of legislation passing next year. so it's a terrible outcome for them if they don't get it passed. i'm wondering if it's terrible for them also for the reasons joshua is saying if they do get it passed because look at the joint committee on taxation run by congress. its fundamental conclusions are this measure is skewed significantly towards the wealthy. that is a pretty good thing for democrats to be able to run on even in the event this tax bill gets passed. >> what's the pushback on that? >> there's a lot of middle class tax relief in the bill. the challenge -- >> phases out? >> again, to make the budget numbers work, they had to do that. i don't think anybody expects those tax cuts are going away in seven years. then we have a deficit problem. >> i agree with you, no one expects those tax cuts going away in which case they are

telling the american people this will cost $1.5 trillion and closer to $2 trillion plus. be honest with the american people about what it's going to cost. >> one of the other challenges and you are illustrating this. tax reform is not something the american people have a visceral connection to. think about the roy moore scandal. the people who support roy moore, despite what they're learning about him, feel something for him that ties them to him as their candidate. i don't know what the american people feel about the tax plan. we felt something strong about infrastructure. i'd like the airports to run better. when the details come out, it falls apart. >> last thought there. thank you. up next an unbelievable commuting fail.

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"in case you missed it" there are plenty of reasons public transportation is great, right, but plenty of reasons it's not so good. if you take public transportation chances are you've dealt with train delays, rising fares, track fires, broken air conditioning, overcrowded cars and once or twice rats. that's just the nature of the beast. you've probably never gotten an apology for never of this. in case you missed it there is reason to be jealous of commuters in tokyo . a japanese rail company apologized for the severe inconvenience imposed after one of its trains left ahead of schedule. get this, the 9:44 train left 20

seconds early. the trains are timed to the second, so if you're feeling sorry for passengers who may have missed the train, don't worry about it. the next train was four short minutes later. we'll be back on monday with more "mtp daily." "the beat" with ari melber starts now. we begin with many important stories. there's breaking news on jared kushner and the russia probe including ken delaney and also new poll numbers that are in some ways surprising later in the show. we have comedian and activist d.l. hughly. donald trump weighing in on allegations of sexual misconduct, but not the allegations against roy moore, not the allegations against donald trump himself. no, he is weighing in only on allegations against senator al franken. this is trump's eighth day without d