president trump is closer to his promised tax cuts. the house passed its bill, senators are primed to vote on theirs. but when it's all over, you may actually end up paying more. an those annoying targeted ads that keep popping up on your phones. you might want to start paying attention. your next job could depend on it. good afternoon, i'm ali velshi. >> and i'm stephanie ruhle. president trump is back from his big trip to asia and defending his relationship with china and sexual harassment allegations

now plague a sitting democrat in the senate and a maverick republican campaigning to join the club. >> but none of that is derailing gop efforts in congress to rework the tax code in time for the christmas holiday, which is where we start. so after passing a tax bill in the house this week, republicans in the senate are ready to vote on their bill after thanksgiving. while the bills do differ, they both dream up all kinds of accounting shenanigans to come under a $1.5 trillion price tag. that's important because that's the maximum amount a republican tax overhaul can add to the deficit over the next ten years without causing republicans to have to reach across the aisle for democratic support because they need more votes. now, one new controversial amendment repealing the obamacare individual mandate. that would free up $338 billion, which would help pay for these tax cuts. but it could also push 13 million americans off health

insurance and increase premiums by 10% a year versus what would have happened under current law. just as controversial, sunsetting almost all of the personal income tax cuts promised by president trump and the gop so that they expire in 2026. now they expire, but the corporate tax cuts, huh-uh. this makes them permanent. >> i need to really focus on that. the sunsetting, because these are deductions. these are things that are truly meant to help people. cutting income rates, child tax credit, doubling the standard deduction. these things are going to go away in eight years. the gop says don't worry, they won't expire. >> what congress would actually take away your tax cuts. but this is where it becomes a problem. >> who knows where we'll be in eight years. who knows who's going to be in power. so these are the provisions that matter most to every american, and suddenly we're going to say bye-bye in eight years. >> now let's talk about the actual impact it has on people.

let's go to people making 20,000 to $30,000 a year. under an estimate from the joint center for taxation. >> jct. >> congress is sort of score keeper of the impact of these tax bills. it says that those people are going to start seeing higher taxes in 2021. by 2027, taxes will go up for everyone making $75,000 and under. so i want to show this to you a different way. these bars represent the percentage change in after tax income by 2027 based on this bill. take a look at the right side. that's the part where you make lots of money, over $1 million. you're seeing an increase in your after-tax income. look at the lds. 10 to twep20, 20 to 30, 30 to 40 to 50 all see an decrease in air after tax income. a vast majority of lower and

middle income parents are going to see tax hikes. put that aside. parents makes me think of kids and students. remember, you're getting rid of the deduction you get for student debt. no longer can parents deduct what do you call it, ali. >> tuition. >> you can't deduct tuition. these are things that matter. come on now. >> we're going to keep on talking about all of the things that are affected in this for the next few minutes because it really is kind of important. let's talk about how many of these tax cuts affect certain groups of people. >> listen, when it comes to these tax plans, there are many, many -- well, the republicans' message is always the same. big tax cuts across the board benefit all americans, especially those in the middle class. well, here's orrin hatch earlier this week praising the analysis of the first version of the tax bill to come out of the senate. please look at this. >> the joint committee on taxation, a nonpartisan congressional score keeper, has concluded that not only does the bill maintain the current level of progressivity in the tax code

but that the largest tax cuts in terms of percentage of income will go to middle income earners. >> come on, republicans in congress say their tax plans are progressive. in other words, the more money you make, the more taxes you should pay. but for facts sake, their plans are the definition of regress e regressive. the republican tax plan is being sold as a boon for the middle class, not the rich. sweeping tax cuts that they say will provide relief to those who need it most. the joint committee on taxation released analysis of the senate bill that seems to prove their point. but the numbers, they tell a very different story. the jct analysis specifically looks at something called percent change in tax liabilities. that's how much less americans would pay in taxes relative to their household income. under the new plan compared to current law. but that metric is very

misleading because it inflates the benefits to lower income taxpayers. we should be measuring the change americans would see in their after-tax incomes. lucky for us, david cayman, a to tax professor did just that and factored in the estate tax which benefits the rich. he found in the first version of the senate bill, americans making between $40,000 and $200,000 would see similar benefits in 2027, about an average 1% increase to their incomes after taxes. but the clear winners would be those who make between $500,000 and $1 million a year. their after-tax incomes would increase by 2.5% on average. and those making more than $1 million a year would still see a bigger benefit than anyone in the middle class would. now, let's talk real money. cayman estimates households making between $40,000 and $50,000 a year would see an average cut of $480 to their tax

bills. but households making more than 20 times that, a million dollars and up would see an average tax cut of 100 times larger, around $50,000 on average. so how does this tax plan geared towards the middle class? well, it's not. it is a tax plan for millionaires. if that is the bill republicans want, they should just sell it for what it is. but please, do not try to mislead us with funny math. >> all right, now we did that based on the first version of it. it changed a little bit. but it's still the same concept. the idea is that by coming in at this $1.5 trillion tax bill, the law would trigger immediate spending cuts. now, remember, spending cuts tend to go to people who are middle income or low income workers. so, for instance, there will be a $25 billion annual cut to medicare. >> a year, a year. $25 billion. listen, republicans have not

been consistent on how they're going to pay for these big cuts. paul ryan has targeted entitlements like medicare, like medicaid, social security programs. this is what's stunning. there are huge swaths of our population who are dependent on that money to survive. so when we talk about eliminating the estate tax, that is eliminating the estate tax for the richest of the rich people. when income inequality is our problem and that is only going to exacerbate it, you're going to get rid of programs that keep people alive. >> if you agree this shouldn't be an estate tax, just don't say it's a middle class thing, it's not. paul ryan in the house when it was passed had a sign next to him $182. if you take that medicare -- if you take the obamacare mandate out, people are going to pay more for their insurance. if you cut medicaid by $25 billion a year, people will pay

more on all sorts of fronts. so don't fall for this whole idea because somebody gives you a number of what you're going to save, that's how much more munne you you'll have at the ending of the year. >> and we appreciate getting these cuts done, but please be transparent about it so we know what we get. >> and there are a number of priorities that are in this bill that are not exactly what republicans say they should be. that is all to say that for republicans, the end game of a tax overhaul is big cuts for u.s. corporations. some say everything else be damned. all of the tax bills in congress now slash corporate rates from a 35% statutory rate down to 20%. now, polling suggests that most americans are not in favor of cutting corporate taxes. that's why if president trump and the gop can say they're delivering something for the middle class or for middle class americans or for lots of middle class americans, that makes the sell job of this tax bill much easier.

but stephanie, their cuts prove small for middle class americans or worse, they expire after a time. big business cuts, corporate tax cuts, when do they expire again, i'm not sure if i remember. >> right after never. they're permanent. and we have to point out while corporations will say their tax code is complicated, they hate that they have to have it set up the way they do, the biggest issues that plague the united states are not a high corporate tax rate. it's failing education, it's student debt, it's health care, it's infrastructure. >> worker participation. >> this isn't targeting that. when you have to ask yourself does corporate tax cut put more money in my pocket, does it put more workers to work? guess what, bank of america merrill lynch did a survey this summer. they asked over 300 executives at big-time corporations what they would use the money for. are you ready for what they said? exactly what wall street analysts like. pay down debt, buy back stock and spend on mergers. a, b, c, none of which help workers and none of which get

people paid more. >> and we have studies that show this. that doesn't mean we're against tax cuts. i think everybody should pay less tax. >> and i think the tax code for corporations is too complicated. >> so here's where it comes down, where the rubber hits the road, sherrod brown and orrin hatch were ending up in a debate about this. >> a debate? >> let's listen. >> before we go home, let's acknowledge this tax cut is not really for the middle class, it's for the rich. the whole thing about higher wanlz, it's a good selling point, but companies don't just give away higher wages just because they have more money. corporations are sitting on a lot of money now, a lot of profits now. i don't see wages going up. >> i get sick and tired of it. true, it's a nice political play but it's not true. >> with all due respect i get sick of the richest people getting richer and richer and richer. >> regular order. >> we do a tax cut -- >> regular order!

>> how many times do we do this before we learn this? >> i'll tell you why they're so fired up. ali, tax reform happens once every 30 years. this stuff counts. when you say you're going to lower the corporate tax rate and get rid of the loopholes, i'm still looking for all those loopholes. >> at 35%, that's the statutory rate. we know that the average that companies pay is 18.6%. so if you go down to 20% as the statutory rate and you don't close a lot of loopholes, and we know that's happening, what are companies actually going to pay? regular working americans are still going to pay a lot. >> coming up -- >> i just like the gavel idea. >> ali and i debate president trump's nominee for health and human services secretary. should someone so close to the drug industry be in charge of bringing drug prices down? >> good question, we'll talk about it. and digital marketers already targeting your phone with location-based ads. they're annoying, but the next

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welcome back. the dumbarton bridge at that time -- digital marketing world has figured out sending things based on your location. it sets up a target zone for your ads. >> you may have seen these ads pop up on your phone as you pass by a store front. it is now being used by recruiters wanting to target certain people with job openings. tom costello reports. >> reporter: mid-morning at johns hopkins all children's hospital in st. pete -- >> i'm going to listen to your heart, okay? >> reporter: ashley shepherd is making the e.r. rounds. >> when's the last time you had a treatment? >> reporter: aas a specially trained pediatric physician's

assistant, ashley is in high demand across the country but there's a reason she ended up here. the hospital was targeting her phone. >> i kept seeing john hopkins all children showing up so i started investigating more and seeing what opportunities they had available. >> reporter: every time ashley drove to her old job in dallas, help wanted ads would pop up. jo johns hopkins is using geof geofencing technology, targeting cell phones in zip codes with pediatric hospitals, in seattle, chicago, boston, ohio, and texas. kind of like those online shopping ads that keep following you. pediatric nurse practitioners, this is on somebody's facebook page? >> absolutely. we specifically targeted them around whatever profile they set up online. >> reporter: including linkedin

and facebook. they were the top two social networks used for recruiting job candidates. for johns hopkins, the strategy is working. in april they have 35 p.a. and nurse practitioner openings but with the targeted ads, they have hired 18 candidates with 100 more in the pipeline. >> we have to go after them. we can't wait for them to come find us. >> reporter: right now there are 6.1 million job openings in the u.s. in 2016, 46% of employers reported difficulty filling their empty positions. that's up from 32% in 2015. but recruiting people from a distance could help bring those numbers back down. >> i think that discovering jobs online is the future, and i think that location-based advertisement is an enhancement to that. >> reporter: paul knight is a digital marketing expert whose company uses geofencing technology. he's seen it go from the retail space to job recruiting. placing an ad for a few dollars

is more cost effective. >> it costs a lot of money for companies to hire a recruiter to go out and manually find those people. they could simply run advertisements that explain the benefits of working for their company. >> reporter: anyone can opt out of getting the ads, but a lot of folks are okay with sharing their whereabouts in order to receive targeted information. >> did it ever feel a little spooky that you keep getting these pop-up ads? >> i didn't find it spooky at all. some people think that this is weird that it's following you around or knows my location. >> reporter: but ashley says it led to a great job just a few miles from the beach. tom costello, st. petersburg. >> i don't mind that. i think that's one of those things, there's a lot of creepy stuff about your phone and following you around, but it is kind of neat if it does help people get jobs. the trucking industry is using it to find truckers because that's an industry where there's a lot of shortage of people.

the u.s. army is using it to attract recruits. west point is using it as well to get students. i don't know, what do you think? i don't mind it. >> social media is where we get all of our content at this point. 72% of hires in 2016 originated from online job searches, networking sites, social media. >> versus the old way of job referrals and knowing somebody. >> the classified ads. so now you're -- this trend is following going where people are. now, do i like seeing on my facebook feed that i need botox, get rid of my belly fat and teeth whitening? not so much. >> you've been on my facebook feed again. that's not yours. coming up, a federal consumer watchdog who made a name for himself taking on the financial industry to the chagrin of republicans on the hill. well, he's calling it quits. all right, stephanie and i will debate president trump's nominee for health and human services secretary. should someone who's so close to the drug industry be the one to lead the charge to bring down

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okay. welcome back. this week president trump announced his nominee for replace former health and human services secretary tom price. alex azar was the deputy secretary of hhs under president george w. bush, and more recently, he served as president of lilly usa, the largest division of eli lilly. certainly he has the resume to do the job, but for a guy with such strong ties to the prescription drug industry, should he be the point man to the president will call upon to lower drug prices? >> i happen to think that the pharmaceutical industry is one of the least transparent, most complex, and most expensive part of our very expensive health care system. when you look at all those single payer systems around the

world or even just universal systems that are not single payer, they have got drug prices under control. even the president has identified this as one of the biggest problems. in my opinion, this is opening up the door and getting the lion inside. this guy is from the pharmaceutical industry. i get the argument that he knows what the industry is about, but these people have had chances to solve this problem and that industry has not done it. >> but ali, what did you expect? already there's been a lot of criticism, this guy doesn't like obamacare. this guy was part of the bush administration. then you had obama as president. obama wasn't going to have him as part of his administration. and then he went and worked and was part of eli lilly. i'm not saying he's great, he's super, but my goodness, what did you expect? he didn't like obamacare, he understands government, he understands the industry, he's an obvious pick. >> he's also on the board of a group that was lobbying for this, as you have pointed out so many times, wisely so, the pharma industry has lobbied more than anybody else this past year. so we'll have to wait and see.

>> trump said he was going to drain the swamp. i'm not saying yahoo, i'm say are you surprised? >> i'm saying we might have just populated the swamp a little more. a new development at the consumer financial protection board, richard cordray announced this week he's going to step down later this month, seven months before his term is up. cordray has been a lightning rod for president trump and republicans who oppose his agency's work. the cfpb was created after the financial crisis under the dodd-frank law to get aggressive with predatory lenders. the agency secured $12 billion in refunds and cancelled debts for 29 million consumers, but this fall congress killed the cfpb's arbitration rule which lets consumers join class action lawsuits against financial institutions. >> we can't be surprised. listen, trump administration is all about deregulation, that's not what the cfpb does. we can only hope mick mulvaney

who looks like he'll take this over, you need to look out for the little guy. >> that's it for us. thank you for watching. that does it for "velshi & ruhle." you can catch us together every weekday at 11:00 a.m. >> you can find me at 9:00 a.m. and this guy -- >> at 3:00 p.m. have a great weekend. >> see ya. s. this is the j.d. power award for dependability. now i want you to give it to the friend that you think is most dependable. ohhhh. ughh. wow. that's just not fair. does she have to? she doesn't have to! oh, i don't? no, but it's a tough choice, isn't it? yes. well luckily, chevy makes it a little easier. cause it's the only brand to earn j.d. power dependability awards for cars, trucks and suvs - two years in a row. that's amazing. chevy's a name you can trust! do you have the coverage you need? open enrollment ends december 7th. don't put it off 'til later. now's the time to get on a path that could be right for you...

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good day, everyone, i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it's 1:00 in the east, 10:00 a.m. out west and here's what's happening. a battle of morality in the bible belt. a prominent pastor goes to alabama and speaks out against roy moore. >> even before these allegations made national headlines, it was clear that moore's policy agenda endangered the children of alabama. >> his evangelical swipe at the senate candidate coming after a loud show of moore s