with russian during the campaign. meanwhile, misconduct scandals facing politicians. taking to twitter to attack al franken while remaining silent when it comes to ray moore. the president's response now by new scrutiny over allegations that he himself faces. we'll start though this hour with those new developments in the russia investigation. the attorney for donald trump junior confirming to nbc news just a short time ago the president's son did attend a dinner last year with russian banker and putin ally alexander torsion who has been accused of links to organized crimes, allegations that he denies. torsion is the same russian banker outreach to the trump campaign was not disclosed by jared kushner to senate investigators.

joining me now nbc national security reporter. former counsel to the house judiciary committee and karen greenberg. >>. ken, start us utout here. what else around this story can you fill in for us? >> good afternoon, richard. well this is coming into context as you said of the disclosure by the senate judiciary committee that will was a russian backdoor overture. that's the term they use. that went to jared kushner and that he didn't disclose it to them. now we know because jared kushner attorney released a statement don't meet with this guy, let's pass on the meeting with alexander torsion deputy head of the russian bank but also ties to organized crime. so jared kushner says don't take the meeting but whsomehow ends at the dinner, may 2016, middle

of the campaign. now torsion had previously said he dined with donald trump junior. lawyer tells them today they in fact didn't share a table. they were at the same dinner, separate tables, met, lawyer told me they talked about guns, not about politics. but regardless, you know, what this is is another meeting between a senior russian with ties to vladimir putin and a member of the trump campaign at a time when all these links are under great scrutiny, richard. >> can any understanding or indication about that meeting at the dinner being the compromise to the outreach, since the outreach it appears based on our reporting that jared kushner is saying he said no. do not have this meeting. do you understand whether that's a compromise, if you will? >> not only do we not understand it, congressional investigators don't understand it. and they want to know the answer to that very question, richard. there is very little information about how this meeting came to be, how donald trump junior and this man were in the same room,

after jared kushner said don't meet with the guy. and that is it i think a subject of investigation going forward. >> julian, what do you think legally here, what does this mean for jared kushner? what does this mean for the investigation? >> well, it means a lot of things. for jared kushner he's in dangerous perjury territory. because he was asked by the senate committee if he was aware of various contacts that occurred between russian associates and the trump campaign and he said he was not aware. we learned earlier this week that he ws was aware of wikileaks contacts between wikileaks and donald trump junior. he had the forwarded emails and didn't disclose those. he was also asked about in general contacts in the campaign. he didn't disclose this attempt at a backdoor meeting. and to the very good description provided reason apparently to the publiced report that jared kushner declined to set up a meeting between donald trump and this russian banker who is linked to organized crime was

because they couldn't validate the closeness of the association to putin. so for kushner, he's in dangerous territory in terms of being asked to disclose these contacts, wikileaks, didn't disclose, that's bad fr him in perjury context. in terms of the russian investigation, "the washington post" earlier this week published 31 known contacts between russian government and associates and the trump campaign. so we know there was repeated contact. we know there was a receptivity on the part of the trump campaign, donald trump junior taking the june 9th, 2016 at trump tower. donald trump junior eagerly looking for wikileaks dirt on clinton. then this meeting that we now know that donald trump junior had in louisville. the papadopoulos information that got to papadopoulos in

march of 2016. so we know not only were there lots of contact at multiple different levels at which these incidents that i'm describing are some of those attempted contacts, we know the trump campaign was eagerly looking for information coming from the russians that would be dirt on hillary clinton. and we know that the trump campaign, whether it's jared kushner not disclosing his contacts with the russians on his security clearance forms, whether jared kushner was trying to set up the secret back channels in soviet compound, we know flynn, we know all of the lies about it. so you are repeated contacts and receptivity on the part of trump campaign and preeted false statements by trump campaign associates about all of this. so this is a scandal that is getting worse not better for the trump team. >> karen, we have the attorney

general this week remembering to remember. will we see jared kushner being asked to remember to remember in this particular situation in terms of disclosure in terms of the outreach by this banker? is that what is next? and add in the mueller angle to this, what he's seeing as this is unfolding in front of him. >> yeah, i think we are entering new territory in terms of the details, if not the over all structure. i think we have been waiting for a while to see some focus on jared kushner, and i think we are seeing it. but the patterns here are very clear. the trump administration and the people that they are using to get closer and closer to the trump campaign from the past and the trump presidency now are individuals who are going to defy the time line that the prosecutors are laying out. who are going to omit things from memory like jeff sessions has, like so many others has, and who are going to basically dare either the senate and or

mueller's investigation to come up with proof that what they say isn't true. and so it's really become a cat and mouse game. and we are seeing more and more of it. we know the narratives now. we know there are pieces that are financial, that are pieces that look like direct collusion. but i this i we are at the very g beginning of this story. >> i want to move over to luke harding speaking to one of my colleagues has a new book called "collusion" this is what he said about that issue. >> in plain side. when you have donald trump on the campaign trail saying russian if you are listening find the emails that are not there. but also a long history of engagement. trump first visited moscow in 1987. who invited him? they are interested in

exploiting that. >> so, ken, what are you hearing, as you follow this investigation in terms of how this is all coming together? because you continually report new details each and every week that add to these questions. are we at a pivot point that is greater than you thought we might be at this point? >> no. but i should say i agree with what luke harding was saying there. a lot of this was in plain sight. donald trump didn't make any secret he was modern history, democrat or republican, that was on ts table. what hasn't been proven though is donald trump intentionally colluded with the russians to interfere in the election. tan that is still a matter of investigation. and mueller is methodically going about his business of trying to get witnesses to tell what they know about that, when it's paul manafort or michael flynn and whoever else under

scrutiny, and whether the president obstructed justice. but in terms of this fundamental question what did donald trump know, did he cooperate or collude with the russians, that is it still unanswered. >> what i want you to address is, are any one of the congressional investigations now going to say we must have an open hearing with jared kushner? >> that could be. we don't know about the latter part of that question. i think at some point there will be public hearings. but i think while it's true there is no dispositive final question on the question of collusion, that's different by saying there is no evidence of collusion. i think there is evidence of collusion. we know the russians attempted on multiple fronts to get through to the trump campaign. we know some of those attempts were successful. papadopoulos and donald trump junior being just two examples. and we know the state of mind of many of the trump campaign officials which was that they were eagerly willing to take disparaging information about

hillary clinton from wikileaks that was the major channel for the russian government. so you put all those pieces together, i think we can no longer say there is no evidence of collusion. it may not be dispositive as to whether the president was personally involved. but i think the idea that there is no evidence of collusion at this point i think we can put that to the side. i think there is evidence. >> karen, 15 seconds. >> i think we know that there is some form of collusion, but we don't know how deep it goes. we think we know, but we actually don't know. and i think we have to wait for the story to play out. we need to let mueller do his job, with i hich is to go from outside and inside. and piece by piece looks like he might get there, but again we don't know what's going to be dispositive and we have to keep that in mind. >> we are watching every single character involved in this investigation, both from the congress as well as mueller's team. thank you very much. great reporting that we follow.

thank you all. i appreciate it. >> thanks for having us. still ahead with growing number of allegations against senate candidate ray moore, his opponent, well, if you look at the polls, he's in the need. what democrat doug jones is saying. we are live in alabama after the break. >> i thought ray moore was disqualified long before this came up. anybody that gets removed from office twice because you violate the rule of law, anybody that takes a million dollars from a charity the way he's done and use his own personal agenda, that was long before that. i thought that way all along.

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we are going to turn now to alabama with some numbers that sum up that state's special election. 24. that's the number. and the number of days until voters there will elect their next senator. nine, that's the number of women now accusing the republican candidate ray moore of sexual misconduct. the number eight, that's the lead that democrat doug jones now holds over moore in the latest fox news poll from thursday. 51, the razor thin majority they will hold in the senate if jones goes onto win next month. numb number one in my mind, live in birmingham, rodriguez, as we look at this, because you are on number one, one of the questions out there was how will the religious, the faith community side on the democrat or republican con date here?

and i'm going to read one of the headlines from the local paper there. some alabama pastors stand behind ray moore sight, quote, war on men. maya? >> you know, we have seen this not just in the state but again within the religious community here especially the evangelical community here, this is a state divided in this race, clearly. obviously the allegations against moore are quite troubling. a lot of people who are on one side, again, faith based leaders who met this morning here in bim sayi birmingham saying they cannot support ray moore who he has denied. some saying they will support him. again, earlier this morning we had republicans meet for a prayer breakfast down in huntsville, they came out saying they were looking at the bigger picture here, supporting moore based on his stand on other issues like the budget, like the debt, the deficit.

border control. but, again, you had those faith leaders that a couple hours after that event came out and said there is no way they can support moore aside from the allegations also based on issues regarding obamacare and minimum wage. now, his opponent doug jones was out today. moore did not have any events scheduled this weekend. but jones did. he was out here in birmingham. take a listen to what he had to say. >> this race, there could not be greater contrast. and this was long before things started unraveling last week. the differences between me and ray moore could not be greater. and that's because i am not someone who wants to divide this state. i'm someone who wants to unify this state. >> and by the way richard there were some financial implications in all of this. because jones campaign is basically been benefiting from moore's trouble. since news of this scandal broke his campaign has been raising

about $250,000 a day. richard? >> hand democrat out spending a republican in that state, that would be certainly a headline. as you have been watching the democrat doug jones, the question is the coalition, maya, what are you seeing in terms of the focus there? would it be similar to virginia when we look at men, millennials, minorities? >> definitely have obviously more women sort of in favor of jones at this point. but again you have the moore campaign coming out yesterday with their own set of women. women for moore saying listen we are backing him too. of course they have had those polls came out you mentioned the fox news poll. really hard to tell. it all depends whether people are being truthful when they are being polled. so we'll have to wait until election day to see where all of those votes fall. richard? >> all right. in the eye of the storm for us, maya rodriguez in alabama. thank you. let's bring in our reporters and

mark stern. good afternoon to all three of you. and i'm going to start with you, andrew, on this. are the numbers real in this polling? mable folks aren't saying what they think. >> yeah, certainly. ray moore isn't going anywhere. if we know anything from his career in public life, he's defiant and not going to back down to this sort of political pressure t senate republicans are actively searching for a viable write in challenger. key word is viable. because if you split up the republican vote in a way that ray moore gets 30% and republican challenger gets less than 20%, handing the election to doug jones democrat. that's not something republicans want save for maybe flake, he told me he would choose any democrat over ray moore. that's the poll numbers you are seeing out of alabama reflecting. >> republicans endorsing the democrat candidate certainly at

a water shed moment. i want to bring up another head line from "washington post" and this is to you, eric. this is from friday. it says bannon's season of war on our establishment may backfire with first battle. i'll pull one quote. it says when you are building a political movement you have to have early victories and show that you can win. so eric that is the question i was talking about deck cratic coalition, is it more about the republican coalition, are women voting for the republican speculate? >> i think the outcome on the senate race will handle suburban mainstream republicans. ray moore has a lot of the republican party which he can count on and these people will show up to the polls december. they are very mad. how many of the mainstream republicans are either going to stay home or cross over and vote

for judge jones because they don't like what they are seeing in ray moore? >> but also this other con stit sency to be watched certainly in alabama, mark, that is the african-american vote roughly about 1 in 4 voters. saw increase from '08, decrease from '08 when we have the obama election and large number show up. what do you think is going to happen in the next 24 days before we get to election day? >> well, look, democrats in alabama obviously want to repeat the playbook from virginia in which there was a huge wave of black voters who came out to the polls and said enough with republican rule. we can't stand this. we are voting for democrats. it was an under reported story but a lot of democratic operate tichs took note and strong hope in alabama and on national level that the black voters will turn out in alabama in unprecedented numbers. now a few hiccups here. the first is that alabama has extremely restrictive voter id

laws. and when alabama first passed these laws, the state actually shut down dmv in predominantly black neighborhoods, a court said suppress black vote. ilg it's still difficult to cast a vote, especially if you are poor. so some potential suppression as democrats put it of the black vote. and also going to be depress turnout that we have seen in states with large black population since the obama elections. we know obama rode a waive of minority voters, brought a lot of people of color out to the polls who don't normally make a practice of voting. so the big question here is whether those people who voted for obama in '08 and 2012 but stayed home in 2016 will decide we are drawing a line just like black voters in virginia did. we'll turn out in droves and really make our voices heard again. >> as we look at the flip side

of the aisle here, there is it also al franken and the senator from minnesota here is the question, andrew. and that is because there has been some headlines saying the democrats for large part have missed opportunity to dru a line in the sand when it comes to sexual harassment. this is our panelist mark head line. what do you make of that? >> they are trying to maintain their credibility on issue that they feel they have more wiggle room on than republicans. it's this issue of sexual assault and harassment. i've heard from a lot of democrats on capitol hill that it wouldn't be much of a risk for al franken to step a side politically because you have a democratic in minnesota that could a point another democrat. then another election wouldn't be until 2020 for that seat. so you could ride out the political wave that would come as a result of this. so, again, a lot of people,

folks like mark on the panel, are urging democrats to take a line in the sand here and urge al franken to step aside especially because the political ramifications will be i guess few and far between to come for democrats. >> mark, will that solve that very question that the democrats have lost an opportunity here? >> well, i frankly think that the window for franken to resign has pretty much closed. i think there was a day or so when democrats could have spoken with one voice and retained their moral authority on this issue. and said we are going to set a precedent. and even if this was the best case scenario for franken, just a disgusting frat boy joke, it's completely unacceptable to us and call on him to step down. that's not what the democrat party said. well, we'll refer it to the ethics committee. we are troubled by it. we'll see what facts come to light. that is a punt. that is hedging. and i think that it forced democrats to seed a lot of the

moral high ground and make it more difficult for democrats to sort of create this rallying cry against ray moore in the coming weeks because republicans will liens that with, you know, what about al franken, what about this issue in your own backyard? and i do nt think the democrats yet have a strong rely. >> and what about kirsten gillibrand talking about hitting out against democrats, a real surprise for some folks she's coming after bill clinton? >> well, it is a surprise somewhat. but it's given the amount of attention being paid to sexual harassment and sexual assaults against women in the workplace. it's really not all that surprising. >> all right. i appreciate all three of you. thank you. >> still ahead for you the politics of misconduct. how recent scandals are reviving questions about how the handling the accusations against former bill clinton have been.

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and welcome back. new york senator gillibrand making waves after telling "new york times" he should have resigned after the lewandowski scandal. sat down with gillibrand and in

an exclusive one on one interview about the senator's controversial remarks. take a listen. >> there are some people worked for the clintons over the years essentially questioning your loyalty. there was a tweet saying the senate vote today keep president clinton but that's not enough for you gillibrand over 20 years, hippocrit. interesting strategy for 2020 primaries best of luck. what do you say to that? >> ridiculous and he's wrong. bill clinton did important things for this country. but my point is conversation we are having today. and we need to have highest standards for elected leaders and change what's happening throughout society. and we have to allow people to tell their stories that is what this is all about. and that's why the me too campaign is as powerful and important as it is. >> there is it a lot more to that. you can see the discussion, sit down, exclusive interview ton ckdc tomorrow night at 7 to

9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc and they talk about that topic and much more. let's bring in georgetown university. christen is a former congressional chief of staff. and has been leading the charge for congress to confront its sexual harassment problem. let's start with this first, what do you know of conversations what has been said by senator gillibrand in the past and why do you think she may have decided to now speak out in such force? >> well, i mean i think it's obvious that we've reached a point in this country where a lot of us are grappling with behaviors that might have been excused or defended in the past, and we have reached a point where i think we are acknowledging that there has to be a more stereo tolerance policy going forward, at least that's where i hope that we get in the world of politics and capitol hill. so i think it's only natural for ta lot of people to be kind of rethinking some of these issues and some of these behaviors

given the point we are in the country right now. >> do you think that president bill clinton should have resigned? do you agree with the senator? >> honestly, i kind of agree with the senators in terms of what her focus is now, which is moving forward, how do we create a better workplace, a better environment for the people in this world now, that's really what i've been focused on with my efforts. >>en an as you know congress so well, christen, and talking about the senate specifically, and the actions that they have taken just within the last couple of weeks. do you think that's a major accomplishment for the campaign and the push that you've been a part of for so long? >> yes, i mean, we were thrilled to see the senate and house move so quickly to make sexual harassment training mandatory. nice to see this being done in a bipartisan really a nonpartisan way which i think is so important in terms of tackling this issue. but clearly first step. great first step. i'm glad that it happened so quickly. but so much more that needs to be done. >> you know the rules very well

in congress when it comes to issues of sexual harassment and wide widely documented within the last couple of weeks again. that the rules are lax compared to mainstream sexual harassment ethics rules, rules on ethics, excuse me. >> yeah, i think a lot of people were surprised for example there was no mandatory sex you'll harassment training on capitol hill like in so many other work polices. and that's one of my goals really is i care deeply about the institution of congress, i spent 20 years working there. i care deeply about the people who are still there and who will come after. and i want to see congress leading by example. i want to see them kind of setting the standard on these issues instead of lagging behind. so i think it's really important for the institution to keep moving forward. >> compared to the quote mainstream, where is congress when it comes to rules, 50% there? 40%? >> i don't know if i can set a number. i think we are moving in the right direction. but clearly more that needs to be done in terms of reforming it

the process through which these complaints are dealt w and we've asked for some specific reforms in the letter that we sent which by the way was signed by 1,500 former staffers which indicates right there what a big problem we all know this to be. >> as you know, the senate has 20% women. it shouldn't be only up to the members of congress, the members of the senate that are women. do we need to have more men speaking up on this in very forward ways and taking on leadership roles? >> well, sure, it helps to have support on this issue wherever it comes from. it should be coming from men and women and both sides of the aisle. i don't think it should make a difference in that sense. but we also, i think, it's important to have more women in leadership roles on capitol hill, whether that's at the staff or member level. you know, it continues to be sort of a man's world and it continues to be challenging for women in that environment to be treated equally and taken seriously. and so that's one reason why i think a lot of these behaviors were shrugged off or laughed off

for so long. because women don't want to be seen as troublemakers. they don't want to stick out and look like they can't hack it in that world. >> and now they are being heard, christen, so that is good. >> i hope so. >> thank you so much for your time. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. we'll be right back. my mom's pain from

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passing tax overhaul bill. and an according to an analysis. that plan would save president trump and his family over $1 billion. and sexual conduct remains an issue as senator al franken comes clean and ray moore remains steadfast against allegations against him. and president trump returns to past times attacking hillary clinton. in a tweet this morning wrote crooked hillary clinton is the worst and biggest loser of all time. she can't stop which is good for the republican party t hillary clinton get on with your life and give it another try in three years. president also reversing course on his administration's controversial decision to allow big game hunters to import the body parts of elephants killed in zimbabwe. some of the political headlines that david has been watching

he's a writer for president obama and the book. and liberty fares, and senior for rand paul, former u.s. attorney from alabama, and jim nul, staff writer at slate. now there is only three of you up there, but there are really four of them here, i think. there you go. okay. let's start with this, then, if we can, david, issue of the tax plan. and the headlines that have been coming out. i'll bring up one poll in terms of the approval rating of it, it is now 25% of approving of the tax plan, 52% not approving. is this going to make it through when kopg comes back? >> i have no idea if it's going to make it through. i do think one of the things we saw during the obama years was tax cuts for the wealthy became extremely unpopular. and as you pointed out in your introduction, this is a tax plan

based around tax cuts for the wealthy. if you think the biggest challenges facing america is that donald trump doesn't have enough money, you are going to love this tax bill. if you don't think that's the biggest challenge facing america, you probably won't approve of it. and so i think whether it passes or doesn't pass this is just a political and moral disaster for the republican party right now. and it comes on the heels of the other one which was their health care repeal attempt. >> brine aan darling, one of th issues brought in, and that's the mandate, and once you brip in health care which the republicans have not succeeded with in the past, once you bring in the original mandate and try to appeal that, are you adding in ha complexity to this debate not needed, a tax plan already having so many issues that p.m. of the voters that brought donald trump into office will not like? you are adding another one into that pot of i don't like. >> i think you might be right. it is adding something in that's a little bit controversial and don't have directly anything to

do with tax reform. but ultimately i think republicans understand they have to get this tax reform, has to get passed, bill has to pass, they need to have one accomplishment, one legislative accomplishment walking out of this year, walking into the elections next fall. and if the economy continues to do well, i think republicans will get a lot of credit for lowering the corporate tax rate, and setting up a corporate environment that's frndly to corporations, keeping their businesses in the united states, not relocating overseas. there are clearly some problems with this plan. one big problem is the fact that not everybody in the middle class will get a tax cut. and i do think the obamacare is kind of the curveball. but the reason why they put the obamacare repealing the mandate in there is it pays for other tax cuts. so yes complicates it a little bit but ultimately might help get it passed. >> i'm going to stay on the story line that it may not help. jim over at slate, everybody has to file tax return. not everybody is necessarily

debating the issue about health care as prompt continentinently. you change taxes everybody will talk about that, and ts the risk is much higher. agree? >> i think everyone has a stake in taxes maybe wasn't true in health care. and one thing i notice this week is democrats have been having trouble come forward, and sure enough you had this happening and a big awakening trying to fight the bill. you had the ranking member ron wyden all of sudden saying this is health care bill. so democrats think this is an opportunity to mobilize people and draw attention to more problematic areas they see in the bill. >> i'll shift to the other big topic and that's related to sexual harassment coming out of the election in alabama and our

expert from alabama joyce vance being a former u.s. attorney from alabama. what are you watching on the ground? we were getting a report from our myra rodriguez who was saying just look at the fundraising, right now it looks like doug jones could potentially and is very probable he'll out spend ray moore. is that going to be the key issue in alabama to winning here? >> so it seems from the numbers we are seeing this morning, that jones, the deck cramocrat is ou spending ray moore the republican. which would be unusual in any other race in alabama. but typically ray moore when he runs does not seem to attract the high fundraising numbers and engage in the big spending that many alabama republicans use. the real issue in this race will be whether alabama republicans, whether moore's die hard

supporters will support him to the last, or alabama will begin to replace their concerns about party with their concerns about country. this morning we heard governor kay ivey reiterate the fact although she believes his accusers she will vote for him because she wants to see the republicans hold the majority in the senate. >> sorry to interrupt. do you believe most women believe that, that's going to be the mentality of many women there in alabama? >> there are a couple of issues that are in play here. i think that's one of them. this desire to see the republican party because of its policies, because of judges remain in power. the abortion issue is also under current. moore is anti-an abortion. doug jones says he supports women's choice. and that matters. >> we also brought in al franken into the topic of sexual

harassment. will that reason nate in alabama and has the senator handled the issue well? >> i think al franken second apology where he said he was disgusted and a shamed by his own behavior, i think that was the right thing to do. i think it was disgusting and shame full behavior in that picture. i'll say i don't think it makes sense to having this discussion of ray moore who is serial sexual predator at best, very likely a ped fiophile in the sa conversation as al franken. i think this is certain moment. and we should be thinking about doing this in a responsible way. so to me what ray moore stands accused of doing and what al franken did while totally unseepable, those are two different things, and we should keep that in mind and shouldn't let people conflate those because it makes the politics a little easier. >> thank you, i owe you all another one. i'm in a tight show today.

but i appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> next, what's behind the controversial fbi report claiming black activists groups pose a danger to police? . are you on medicare? do you have the coverage you need? open enrollment ends december 7th. don't put it off 'til later. now's the time to get on a path that could be right for you... with unitedhealthcare medicare solutions. call today to learn about the kinds of coverage we offer,

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russia was the focus of tuesday's house judiciary committee with jeff sessions and they questioned him about a fbi report. that report claiming a new movement of black identity extremists are targeting law enforcement. take a listen. >> black identity extremists likely motivated to tart law enforcement officers. i believe earlier you said were not familiar with the report, is that correct. >> well i haven't read it. >> is there a term or a report on white identity extremists? you mentioned you were familiar with black people who identify with their racial identity? >> yes -- but it is not coming to me at this moment. >> would you consider black lives matter an identity extremist group. >> i am not able on that. i have not so declared it, i would like to know what you will do to essentially roll back what

is listed in this report? because it is not accurate. sir? >> we will look at the report. i actually would be interested in reading it. >> joining me now is executive editor for news at foreign policy who helped break this story in october. sharon wine burger and founder of jen why not, jamara burly. thank you for being here. as you listen to the excerpts here, sharon, of the way the attorney general was associated, relating and answering the questions here, again when we're looking the black identity extremists, what did you take away. he appeared to smile or smirk at one point. >> it is just shocking. i mean this is a report that was issued in august by the fbi counter-terrorism domestic unit. and it was identifying what they said was an entirely new domestic terrorist threat. so to hear sessions say that he has not heard of it or has not looked at the report just is

very disingenuous at best. when we first saw this report we were shocked. >> jamira, your reaction? >> i mean, what is extremely disturbing about jeff session and the fbi rhetoric around this idea of black identity extremist is it continues to highlight white americans disdain with black people demanding equal due which is protection under the law, access to resources and the ability to freely move throu throughout society without being victimed and instead this -- it demeans our movement and to villianize our lead nerz a way that i is counter productive to move in a right direction. >> your perception of when the attorney general was asked by congress woman bass there, what about the kkk. what about skinheads. what about neo-nazis, do you have -- and i'm paraphrasing, a

white identity extremist list in process or the idea thereoff. >> and that is what is disturbing. there have been fbi reports on the threat of white supremacists, but we know that the kkk exists, we know that white sum recommend assy exists. the term black identity extremist is made there is no such group in the united states and didn't exist before the fbi and it came out of thin air. i think a former fbi agent that we interviewed said it best, it is a category for black people who scare them. this is lumping together a lot of different groups that have no other connection other than the fact that they are black. that just makes no sense whatsoever. >> and jamira, and you are a student of history, does this remind you of j. edgar hoover and his target of civil rights groups. >> again it continues to undermine and decriminalized the

movement. and that is when jfk and fred hampton was assassinated by police and this is not new. and white men continue to be the -- pose the biggest threat to americans every day. it is documented and verified they are more likely to burn down churches, more likely to commit mass murder and shooting and so jeff sessions reality and his assessment on these people is both lacking in facts and reality. >> 30 seconds to you sharon, when asked again during this testimony, the attorney general said i have no senior member in my staff that is african-american. what do you make of that. >> that is precisely the problem. whatever boardroom the fbi employees were sitting in that came up with the idea that black i.d. extremists, had there been one person that was black in

that room that would have happened. >> and we need to make sure that young people and people of disers backgrounds will be around to -- around conversations to make our community safer. >> thank you for that great conversation. appreciate it. much more in our next hour. stick around. that's the new man, huh? yup. getting kinda' close to my ride. wow... now, that's how you make a first impression. they're going to love you... that's ford, america's best-selling brand. hurry in today for 0% financing for 72 months across the full line of ford cars, trucks and suvs! and just announced...get 0% apr for 72 months plus $1000 cash back! take advantage of these exclusive holiday offers during the ford year end sales event.

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hello, i'm richard lui on this saturday. thanks for joining us at msnbc headquarters here in new york city.

we'll start this afternoon hour in alabama. there the fight over who will be the next u.s. senator from that state entering the final stretch. big conversation there in the state as well as nationally. now the heart of the campaign questions about this man -- surrounding the republican nominee roy moore and allegations of sexual misconduct with young women including some underage. mia rodriguez joins us live from birmingham. and mia, there was that key gathering this morning and you were monitoring it and it was a republican prayer breakfast there in huntsville for supporters of roy moore. what was the tone there and what came out it. >> reporter: well for one thing, they plan to vote for moore. that is the main juxtaposition that you saw here today. you had this huge support at this republican men's club prayer breakfast down in huntsville and basically the men there saying they were supporting moore because of what they call the bigger picture,