breakfast in huntsville, where we saw the theme attics of how roy moore was wrapping the issue of religion into his campaign and those who might support him. and then there's the energy for the democrat and the amount of money that he is getting day by day. >> reporter: this is a state right now that is divided. now, divided in whose direction, we won't know for sure until the special election in december. but yes, there were several elements even at play today. you mentioned the republican prayer breakfast. what's clear from that breakfast is that at least at the local and state level, there are republicans that are going out and saying they will support roy moore in this election, that they are looking at sort of this bigger picture, issues like the budget and taxes and that that is what they are choosing to focus on during this special election. then you have this other side, these religious leaders come out today, holding a news conference and basically denouncing roy moore, saying there was no way they could support him based on

the allegations of sexual misconduct, allegations that moore has denied, but still you have nine women that have come forward with allegations. and the religious leaders are saying they believe these women, that they are taking these seriously. take a listen to what both sides had to say today. >> roy moore is going to vote right. we need to make sure that we keep the big picture in our minds as we vote on december 12th. and the big picture is, who's going to do the right things in washington, d.c. for our country, and who's going to do the wrong things? >> even before these allegations made national headlines it was clear that moore's policy agenda endangered the children of alabama. and in many ways, he was not living up to christian values before these allegations. >> now, moore has basically been laying low this weekend. he had no scheduled campaign

events. his opponent doug jones, the democrat, did. he had one today in birmingham. you mentioned momentum and he certainly has financial momentum, jones that is, at this point. because since news of the scandal broke, he's raised about $250,000 a day. richard? >> question might be there, foot soldiers. who you are seeing on the streets based on all the money. that normally translates to more efforts, more door to door, more advertisements in what the democrat and doug jones might be doing, this as the republican is on his heels. what have you seen? >> reporter: we've certainly seen a lot of ads on tv for doug jones. i personal have not seen any for moore. we've seen signs on lawns for jones. i counted at least a half dozen running through this neighborhood. i have yet to see any for moore. now, whether that translates into votes on december 12th is really the big question here.

>> what are some of the messaging? what's the messaging you're hearing from the doug jones commercials? what are they touching on? are they looking at a national local view, or a local local view? >> basically what they're talking about is trying to represent alabama in the best way possible at the national level. i mean, at this point, jones is not necessarily shying away from what's happening with moore's troubles, but he's really trying to focus on what he plans to do for alabama. that's based on sort of the advertising at his campaign events that he's been having, but of course he has alluded to the troubles that moore is having. and of course talking about today specifically, how he wants to be the best representative for every man, woman, and he said specifically, child. >> interesting. very interesting. maya rodriguez there for us in alabama, thanks so much. also part of this discussion, as maya was indicating, the national view, and president trump on twitter, blasting the democrat, al franken, who is

facing his own sexual misconduct scandal, but not addressing what's happening with roy moore. the white house encouraging an ethics investigation into the senator's actions while deflecting similar comments against president trump. here's how sarah sanders explains the difference. >> i think in one case specifically, searnator franken has admitted wrongdoing and the president hasn't. i think that's a very clear distinction. chief white house colon interesting thing about this, and i want to go down to what maya was reporting on what she's seeing on the airwaves. the democrat is using a local and national -- or i should say state national perspective. would it be better just to stay on local issues? >> i think state/local helps

doug jones. i think doug jones and the democratic party frankly have a chance to reintroduce themselves to the people of alabama who are not intending to be democrats. i think he has a great opportunity. but i also have to respond to what sarah sanders said, because a, it's so cynical, and b, it's such a lie. because the president did, in fact, admit to groping, grabbing, et cetera. he told us on the "access hollywood" tape, when you're a star, you can just do whatever you want, you can grab them by the you know what. it's so incredible that the president's shamelessness is going to -- is being used as a defense. and al franken is going before a senate ethics committee, which he has asked for. the president doesn't ask for it, al franken has asked for it. >> and he called it locker room

talk and he was talking about kissing women -- >> without permission. >> without permission, in that tape. kevin, this is that dynamic. and sarah huckabee sanders, put in that position, having to defend that very difficult question. did they handle it in the right way? how could they have done it better here? >> well, look, i think people watching at home know it isn't a democrat problem, it's not a republican problem, it's an american problem. i think what we're seeing with roy moore and al franken is that this is part of a broader cultural problem, and it's not a democrat problem, it's not a republican problem. institutions at every level, whether it's at the education level in the private sector or in the political sphere, have to help people. they can't hurt people. when you look at the courage of people coming forward and what happens what that might mean for change. already in the halls of congress we're seeing legislation from both democrats and republicans that could impact that.

kirsten gillibrand, democrat from new york has introduce legislation that would make mandatory the sexual harassment training. and there's a line in the republican-controlled tax plan that would make it no longer possible for folks to write as a tax write-off, their non-disclosure agreements, their ndas for sexual harassment cases. think about that for a second. right now, folks can write off their nda disclosures for sexual harassment cases. so all of this, i think, is part of a broader national conversation that has impacted every single sector outside of politics, inside of politics, and these are the conversations that are being had. >> the narratives keep on growing in number and great detail. and to you, eugene, on this, i want to go back to alabama for a second. as we look at some of the groups that will be key. one might also say that becoming more overlapping or more

complex. when you look at the divide, there's not only the issue of millennial voters, there's the issue of single women and how they're voting as well as suburban women, and how they're voting. there's also a quarter of the population african american, and how they will vote and whether we will see the same sort of energy that came through in 2008 for president obama in that space. >> absolutely. but we need to be cautious in looking at these approval polls to determine how people will perform in the end. a week before president donald trump was voted -- elected should we say obviously -- about 33% of american women approved of him, based on the reports and all of the things that were being made public regarding sexual assault and sexual harassment allegations. but ultimately, 41% of these women ended up choosing donald trump to be their president. so it's possible that people who may not approve of roy moore may still vote for him.

we see that example exemplified most prominently perhaps through the governor of alabama. because tribalism to some people is what will ultimately decide what people want to do in this election. for some people, roy moore is simply not a democrat and for them that makes him the best candidate regardless of the allegations that he's facing. >> a lot to talk about and reflect on. so therefore, if governor ivy comes out and says, look at the national picture, look at the voice our state can hold. look at the importance of maintaining a majority in the senate. look at potentially the issue of the next supreme court nominee. this is also important to us and doggone it, alabama, you're part of this discussion. this is why you need to do roy moore, despite the issues on the allegations related to young girls and roy moore. >> and these nine women are not important to the discussion. i was actually shocked by what the governor said. she had been critical of roy

moore, richard. i really didn't expect that. it was such a cynical thing to come out and say, but this is what we've gotten to with this base of the republican party. it's as though abortion is the primary -- is the only issue, actually. and the integrity of young girls doesn't matter. it's very disturbing. i do want to say one thing to kevin. i agree with pretty much everything he said, but we cannot equate what al franken is accused of, with what roy moore is accused of. >> no, i'm not equating it, and i hear you loud and clear on that. >> okay, good. it's on all sides. it's weinstein, it's spacey. we've got our liberals. but al franken doesn't belong quite there. >> and let's not forget about the $15 million that lawmakers in congress have paid off for their own ndas. this is a widespread problem and

i hear you loud and clear on your point. >> 260 cases related to the $15 million, right? >> how are we not entitled to know the names of those people who, you know, who have been paid for, whose wrongdoing has been paid for. it's unbelievable to me. >> go ahead. >> i think related to that, what's really interesting about the whole roy moore candidacy. even if he's victorious in december, this isn't over. and it's not over because the conversation about sexual harassment, as we just noted, is really kicking up in congress. there's this "me too" congress bill. so whether or not he is able to convince alabama voters that he has their best interest in mind. it's a little irrelevant. because this is a national conversation and people beyond alabama are going to be looking at all lawmakers, including roy moore, if elected, to see how they will best protect american citizens in this area. >> it is national, it is local, it is hyperlocal. kevin, eugene, joan, really

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what i ask, is ambassador kislyak in the room? before i get started here. [ laughter ] any russians?

[ applause ] anybody been to russia? got a cousin in russia or something? so, anyway -- >> yeah, attorney general jeff sessions, having a bit of a laugh there, joking about the russia investigation. and the quip came just days after sessions told a congressional hearing his memory had been refreshed and that he did, in fact, recall a campaign staffer offering to set up a meeting with vladimir putin. this as nbc reports jared kushner failed to disclose that a putin ally, accused of having ties to organized crime, also reached out to the trump campaign in the days leading up to the 2016 election. the senate judiciary committee also alleges kushner withheld an

e-mail he was sent by donald junior about contact with wikileaks. back with us, kevin surely, eugene scott. start with you, matt, on this very topic. why is the attorney general telling jokes about what is at this moment, the most important topic being discussed in the beltway? >> i guess he thinks that the russians interfering in our election and the attorney general of the united states not telling the truth about it to the congress in sworn testimony is somehow funny. i thought it was a telling moment, not just for the attorney general, but for all the conservative lawyers in that room who were really laughing it up, having a good time. listen, this is a serious matter, the fact that everyone in the trump orbit, from the vice president, to the attorney general, to the president's son, to the president's son-in-law, can't seem to tell the truth about contacts with the russian

government, with russian intermediaries. they didn't tell the truth during the campaign and they continue to not tell the trouth in testimony to congress or when they talk to the media. it's an ongoing problem that the administration doesn't seem to take seriously. >> and a person that's not smiling, and we have not seen smile, at least in video that we have been playing here, kevin, is jared kushner. and now we add another element onto it through the nbc reporting that you're aware of, that he failed to disclose that he had an outreach from a putin ally. that ally saying, hey, we would like to, or i would like to meet with donald trump at that point. again, congress will be saying, where were you on this? you did not disclose it. you seemed to forget that we were asking you what pieces of contact you've had with anybody from russia. >> regardless of what you think of jared kushner or attorney general jeff sessions, i think there's no question that russia

meddled into the 2016 election and they did it not just with republicans, they also infiltrated democrats and the privacy sector. look at silicon valley. at the end of the day, what the conversation has to shift to once this investigation has concluded, or even while it's ongoing, is how the united states is going to better protect itself ahead of the 2018 mid terms. there was like 20-something election systems that the russians tried to penetrate in the 2016 election. and so when the intelligence community is saying that russia has had this impact, not just in the political sphere, but also in the private sector, also in silicon valley, how are we as a country better protecting yourself from that happening again? and this is going to continue on. obviously the case that is filed against paul manafort, that is scheduled for the spring. so this is going to be something that the administration is going to have to talk about for quite some time to come. >> and build on that, eugene,

because as we go through the holiday season, come january, we'll be right in the middle of 2018, of the midterm elections. is there any talk across the many states, or in the very hallowed halls there of the hill, about this concern about more meddling and what might be done in defense of that? >> absolutely. as we clearly communicated that, this is something that people in the intelligence community fear will happen again in 2018. and i don't think people understand the magnitude of just what was involved. i mean, literally twitter accounts and bots and trolls were created that gave american voters false information about how to vote. there was some serious, real tampering in this election and maybe it's a joke or a laughing matter when you were on the winning side of things, but the reality is, this is not about a partisan or the political side you're on. this is about america versus a foreign power trying to

interfere in our election. and there are certainly, in congress, concerns on both sides of the aisle, what could happen in 2018 and 2020 if this is not addressed appropriately and it's really difficult to give this the attention that it needs when people at the top levels of government think it's a laughing matter. >> the top level also of silicon valley. it's not just the administration that needs to play ball, it's business leaders that need to play ball as well. and to be more forth coming about the business dealings they had with russians, particularly in disclosing their business contacts. look at facebook. what were -- i mean, when ads are being sold in rubles, they need to be disclosing that. that needs to be led to change. they need to follow the same reporting requirements that political ads taken out in newspapers need to follow. >> they are saying, as all three of you know very well, the heads of twitter, facebook, as well as google, that they will self-police. and at this moment, the discussions, despite the

testimony on the hill, that all three of you have been following, that there's still a question whether each side actually understands each other's language. right? >> they don't. >> does silicon valley understand d.c. and does d.c. understand what silicon valley is saying? they are culturally very different. are we going to see something happen? >> culturally, they're very different. silicon valley spends a lot of money to try and understand d.c. i think there's a question going forward of whether they need to be regulated or whether they can do it on their own. but give them credit for making some changes, trying. the same hearings that jeff sessions was joking about, where he didn't tell the truth about his russian contacts. he was asked, what is the justice department doing? what is the trump administration doing to block, to prevent russian interference in the next elections, in 2018 or 2020? and his answer was, i'm not aware of anything. so there's a real lack of any effort on behalf of the trump

administration to do anything to block future russian interference. maybe it's apathy, maybe it's because they hope to benefit from it again. >> mark zuckerberg didn't show up to the hearing. >> and that's concerning to all of the secretaries of state across the country, who when they gathered, said that is one of the major issues they're worried about. they're the ones that have to deal with it on a state by state level. gotta leave it there, thank you. trophy trouble. the president changes his tune on a decision to allow big-game trophies in the u.s. next the backlash he faces from conservationists.

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welcome back. president trump faces new fall-out following his administration's latest decision about the environment. the president announcing he will put on hold the controversial policy change that would have allowed big game hunters to bring animals killed in africa back to the united states. nbc's tom costello has more on what's driving the president's decision. >> reporter: the tweet came overnight, after hearing the roar from animal rights advocates, president trump weighed in on the department of the interior's controversial decision to allow elephants and lions to be brought out of africa as trophies.

the president tweeting, put big game trophy decision on hold until such time as i review all conservation facts. >> having elephants and lions is a huge driver to the economy. there are millions and millions of people from all over the world who go to africa to see these animals alive. >> reporter: now if the administration ends up easing restrictions, conservationists say it's a huge step backwards. >> we're essentially rolling account the red carpet for the next walter palmer. >> reporter: in 2015, dr. walter palmer killed cecil the lion in zimbabwe, a beloved symbol of that country's wildlife who was being studied by researchers at oxford. heart broken, he said, if i had known this lion had a name or was property to the country or or a study, obviously i would not have taken it. but dr. palmer faced fury at home and was forced to close his dental practice for two months. his vacation home, vandalized.

in 2016, the obama administration listed the lion as threatened and barred americans from bringing them back as trophies after africa lost 43% of its lions in the previous two decades. but the u.s. fish & wildlife service disagreed earlier on friday, saying the killing of trophy animals in zimbabwe will enhance the survival of the african elephant, arguing the country uses the money to step up conservation efforts. this morning, the big debate, will the dollars spent to hunt these majestic animals help save the species, or is it all an excuse to put a trophy on a wall? now to headlines we're following on msnbc. u.s. ambassador to the u.n., nikki haley, said russia is not interested in common ground with the other 14 members of the security council. this afternoon it voted extending the mandate for investigating -- or rather vetoed the move to extend the

ban of chemical weapons in syria. the trump administration says that palestinians must begin peace negotiations with israel, or the plo office in washington will be closed. the law bars a plo office if the palestinians urge prosecution of israelis in the international criminal court. in september, palestinian president mahmoud abbas called for the icc to investigate and prosecute israeli officials for their alleged involvement in settlements and crimes. former lebanese prime minister saad hariri said he's going back to lebanon in the next few days for that country's independence day. today he met with french president emmanuel macron after being in saudi arabia for two weeks. hariri said he'll talk about the resignation when he's in lebanon. he resigned two weeks ago. tomorrow, zimbabwe president robert mugabe will meet with the army commander who put him under house arrest. this according to zimbabwe's

state-run television station. it will be their second meeting president protesters are demanding mugabe's resignation. and next year's winter olympics will have a country competing for the very first time. nigeria. three women will be winter olympians, competing in bobsledding. we'll be right back. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything so we know how to cover almost anything. even a "red-hot mascot." [mascot] hey-oooo! whoop, whoop! [crowd 1] hey, you're on fire! [mascot] you bet i am! [crowd 2] dude, you're on fire! [mascot] oh, yeah! [crowd 3] no, you're on fire! look behind you. [mascot] i'm cool. i'm cool. [burke] that's one way to fire up the crowd. but we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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now to alabama. in the wake of allegations of sexual misconduct swirling around roy moore, that's the

state's republican governor now saying she sees no reason why the senate special election should not proceed as planned next month. moore remains, meanwhile, defiant. rejecting any accusation of impropriety. and many of his supporters have tried to discredit "the washington post," which first reported on this story. joining me now, reporter for the montgomery advertiser and joan walsh, msnbc analyst. you can probably sit around wondering, had it been reported not by "the washington post" but perhaps by the montgomery advertiser, or any other of the state's great papers, would it have made a large difference right now? >> you know, the impact those women's stories have come out and there's been nothing reported to -- at this point, to really question the facts of those stories. honestly, you know, that "washington post" story was one

of the most solidly reported things i've personally ever seen. if one of the local media had gotten it, i'm sure you would be seeing the same pushback, no matter who got the story. >> so at the moment, it is certainly being used by those who would be critical of doug jones and questioning the validity of that report, that's the argument, right? this is "washington post," outsiders, now coming after us here in the state. >> that's right. it's an old argument here in alabama. i will say that, you know, when that "washington post" story came out, that did create quite a stir in alabama. what seemed to be really decisive with a number of republicans was the public press conference by beverly nelson on monday. a lot of republicans i spoke with, in the wake of that press conference where nelson alleged that moore attacked her when she was 16. a lot of republicans i spoke with said that really moved them

towards seriously believing these allegations. >> joan, i want to get your reflection again on that outside/inside argument, not from here, not of alabama. and vaughn hillyard, an nbc reporter had this discussion with a resident of alabama. let's play that first and then get your thoughts. >> i think at a young age, she may have pushed the issue and she got probably rejected and now she's saying something that really i don't think happened. >> do you think that these women are telling the truth? >> i think that they're out for money. i think they're being pushed by the other people to say things that is not true. >> who are these other people? >> i just -- i wouldn't really like to say that on tv. i think luther strange is behind a lot of this and i just don't trust him. >> so there's the idea of the

establishment, then you have bannon on the other side that has been part of this very debate. >> well, yes. i was surprised to hear her say luther strange and not doug jones, so that's interesting in itself, richard. i think that's interesting too, "the post" story was so airtight, and then alabama media has picked up on it, done further reporting, found more women. so it's not just these outsiders who have come in to judge alabama. there are lots of good reporters in alabama who have added to the story. you know, now that we have nine women, i think that woman, i don't want to say she's a minority, but i think she might be. there's a huge gender gap in support for doug jones over roy moore. women are overwhelmingly supporting doug jones and a lot of people doesn't expect that.

so i think women in general are taking this seriously, including some republican women. >> it would be interesting to see what millennial women think in this case too. when you put the two sets together, let's go to the ground there, and because, brian, you're there reporting, any sense of that question that joan is bringing up? >> yeah, i do agree with that. i think there's a generational divide here. you definitely see among some of the younger women in the state a lot more concern about this story. but i would say, even before these allegations surfaced, moore historically did very poorly with suburban women. you look in 2012, he lost traditionally republican counties like mobile and madison county, mostly because of that female vote. he does extremely well among male voters, but he's never -- again, he's always lagged with the women voters. even if the allegations weren't

out there, he would have an issue reaching out to the women voters. >> 30 seconds to you, joan. i think there's 24 days left. what are you watching? >> i'm watching what they each do with ads. i'm watching the ground game. i think that, you know, the jones campaign is trying to tell outside voters, please don't come down here, please don't drive your car with your new york plates down here. you want to send money, that's great. we need this to be an alabama push and i think that it's possible that he could do it. i really think it's possible. >> and to you, brian, 30 seconds. we've heard about how the democrat, doug jones, has been raising $250,000 a day. what about on the other side, are we hearing a roy moore surge in fundraising? >> we haven't heard anything yet. but i should point out that roy doesn't really need to raise a lot of money. his base is extraordinarily loyal to him. he knows where they are.

so even if he's at a disadvantage in the cash race, that doesn't mean you should count him out by any means. >> brian and joan, thank you. $15 million in taxpayer money went towards sexual harassment settlements on the hill. what's being done now to change the disturbing culture within congress. we'll talk with new york congressman lee zelden about his decision to vote against the house tax bill.

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will republicans be able to meet president trump's christmas deadline for a tax reform bill? that's the big question on the hill at the moment. the house passed their plan on thursday with only republican votes. the house bill will mean tax cuts on average for all income groups in 2018. but according to the tax policy center, the biggest benefits would go to businesses and wealthy americans. the senate is still working on its version, which includes a provision to repeal obamacare's individual mandate. at least five republican senators are already voicing skepticism or saying they will not support it overall. ron johnson, saying i'm not going to do this.

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find out how at sanfranciscodignity.com. before the break, two plans to cut taxes. the house plan right now is the only one that has been scored by the cbo, with a deficit potentially adding to the deficit of some $1.5 trillion. joining me now, lee zeldin, a member of both the affairs and

financial services committee. congressman, thank you for joining us. you've heard the numbers about the addition that will be added to the country's debt and the deficit that will be resultant of the house plan. you said no, do you not house plan. what was missing for you specifically? >> well, i just had too many constituents who would see their taxes go up. i am all for passing a great bill that's going to provide tax relief for our country. be able to grow our economy. i want my constituents to save more of their paycheck, save more for retirement. for a lot of other districts and states around the country, it's a great bill for other members as i looked for their members but for my district, too many paying more. >> what did you tell speaker ryan? >> one of my main concerns, if not my main concern, it's not the only one, is with regard to state and local tax deduction.

states like new york, by eliminating state and local tax deduction you're taking more money from a place like new york to pay for deeper tax cuts elsewhe elsewhere. others claim they're subsidizing new york, but new york, for example, is a net contributor. both tax policy and spending policy. we spend, send more to walk than get back in return and that's with the deduction. when i look at the numbers, take away the s.a.l.t. deduction, it was problem, by the way, on the house side, there was a $10,000 property tax deduction cap. better than the full elimination still on the senate side. for me it wasn't enough progress. when you look apartment eliminating s.a.l.t. and other dynamics of the plan, too many people aren't seeing tax relief. >> one of the elements at the plan across the way there for you, the senate plan, they will satisfy your concern, but in addition to that there will be the elimoningation of obamacare

and the mandate. helping balance the book adding some $330 billion over the next years back on the revenue side. would you go with the senate plan right now as it stands? >> well, no. actually, the senate bill while it has some good elements in it, both versions have, house and senate side, have good components to it. the senate bill brings back the medical expense deduction, for example. it has a higher mortgage interest deduction cap. that's good. but the senate side proposes to fully eliminate state and local tax deduction. while there are good elements in both, i don't support either bill in its current form. >> i want to move on to the other issue, which you've been watching on the hill, and been looking through what you've been saying, what, oh, what, should be done with this al franken guy is one of the things you tweeted. also said, it's about that time for that creepy roy moore dude

to exit stage left. so you've been fairly equal regardless of politics that you do not like this issue related to sexual harassment or sexual assault, again,apologizes. roy moore saying i don't believe this happened. i don't recall. >> right. >> so the question to you is, the difference in the way they're responding, do you accept that difference? >> well, i mean, i believe that roy moore was preying upon young teenage girls. so i have a problem with that. i hahave 11-year-old girls at home. regardless in my situation having young girls or not, when you're a grown man in your 30s preying on young teenage girls that's a problem. i think it's better to own up to what actually took place, even if -- by the way, there are

allegations, parts of allegation as, maybe he has strong exception with based on what happened or might be new allegations that come up we can take exception to, but i've seen enough to believe that he was preying upon young teenage girls for me. >> appreciate you taking the time, sir on this saturday. congressman lee zeldin of new york. and joe biden would best trump in a 2020 president's race. hinted at the possibility of a run which would be his third attempt at the presidency, but would a 77-year-old candidate be able to capture the millennial vote? one of the questions folks are asking. demographic projections show millennials are posed to be the biggest group voting surpassing baby boomers for the first time raising questions for both parties but especially democrats as the average age of democrats in the house currently at 72. average age for republicans a

much younger 48. look at this full screen and nearly 60% of eligible voters are comprised of millennials, people are color and single women and the question is, does biden represent them? joining me now, liz mare, republican strategist and founder of the make america awesome super parque and josh schwerin, communications director and former national spokesman for hillary clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. josh, will millennials vote for joe biden? >> i think so, if he decides to run i think he would get a lot of their votes. >> why? >> first of all i hesitate to put too much stock in polls for 2020. they're three years away. millennials are looking for someone whospeak for the issues they're concerned about and whoever runs for our party will have the benefit of running

against donald trump, historically popular across the board even more so with younger voters. the benefit any democrat would have. >> how are you evaluating here, liz, where millennial voters will be in 2020 as they look at theirs decision between a donald trump, most probably, and potentially a joe biden? >> look, i mean i do think it's very early and hard to project looking three years out how a president's race will play out and which voters go in which direction. young voter, goes to the benefit of any democrat out there, the younger people. and people seized on a very old democratic party that's trying to pick up votes from very young people. that may be fine. we've had plenty of instances where lots of younger voters have been supportive of older candidates. may not seem totally logical to the rest of us, but it is how they vote and something i would

keep in the back of my mind, though. with biden, always found him to be a very relatable personable guy. as josh says, very authentic and i think he's somebody who can bring a lot of voters onboard purely because of that and i don't think age is necessarily such a factor for him. where age becomes an issue and maybe become an issue with regard to millennials in particular it running a president's campaign and hillary clinton demonstrated this to a certain degree unfortunately, you have to be able to keep up a really steady pace with extreme stam ma and in a position to be out on the trail 24/7, performingality a sort of a-plus level all the time. not sow say something older can't do that. i worked for john mccain in 2008. pretty good at doing that and he's an old guy, too. it's tougher for people as they get older. there are reasons to be concerned about biden's age here. contrasted with the millennial vote, but that could be said for a number of other candidates and

certainly could be said for donald trump going into 2020 as well. >> josh, we talked about joe biden, at an event with him a week ago and this was him again still taking the train home here from new york city. this case not from washington, d.c. at 11:00 p.m. after had five-hour day just talking about the moon shot. the issue of cancer. the issue of him still wanting to make a difference and if that energy and passion translates to 2020 seems that would satisfy the criterion liz brought up. again, having the energy, understanding the pace and maintaining the passion in case wanting to be the next president of the united states. >> it's true running tore president is possibly the most grueling thing you can do and i will say hillary clinton ran laps around her staff significantly younger than her. i have no doubt if joe biden decides to do it he will take into the account he is healthy for his age and can do it. nothing i've seen makes me think anything else.

i think the most important thing again is, are you going to be relatable to voters? talk about what they care about? and i have never seen joe biden do anything but that. >> on your side of the aisle here, liz, who might you fear most on the democratic side? >> well, i'm not a supporter of the president. >> sorry, yes. >> it's worth noting i'm not a is a potter of the president so not looking at this in a traditional who makes me scared who doesn't make me scared. pose the question differently. if i were the trump team who would i be worried about? i would be worried about biden. candidly some of the voters donald trump had the best reach into those sort of blue collar white working class voters in places like pennsylvania, like wisconsin, i think that joe biden is very adept at bringing those people onboard and would be worried about that. >> okay. >> i can also see an argument worrying about elizabeth warren in terms of fund-raising, realizistically i don't think i would be particularly worried

about her, because i think she's so off putting so many voters. >> thank you both for your patience, end of the hour. tough. up against a hard stop. wraps it up for us this hour on msnbc. have a good evening. this is nothing short of extraordinary. getting 227 members to agree on something as complicated -- [ applause ] -- this country has not rewritten its tax code since 1986. this powers of the status quo in this town are so strong, yet 227 men and women of this congress broke through that today. >> paul ryan inched closer to his longtime dream of reshaping the federal government in the image of an i ran noving. passing a pass plan