i'm richard lui here in new york city. breaking his silence. rob goldstone, the man who helped set up the meeting between donald trump jr. and a group of russians speaks out. detailing the trump tower meeting that's at the center of the senate probe. we have those details for you. what he said and how soon he might speak with special counsel robert mueller's team. plus, alabama's largest newspaper calls for voters to e reject roy moore just weeks before the special election that could shift power in the senate from moore to al franken now, how the politics of sexual misconduct are playing out on capitol hill. we're going to start for you with those new details between a meeting between donald trump jr. and a group of russians at trump tower in june last year. rob goldstone, who set up and attended that meeting, is

speaking up in today's issue of the sunday times magazine. in his interview, he admits he puffed up the language in his e-mail promising dirt on hillary clinton in order to get the meeting. saying this in mart part, quote, if i'm guilty of anything and hate the word guilty, it's hyping the message and going the extroo mile for my clients using hot button language to puff up the information i had been given. i didn't make up the details. i just made them sound more interesting. >> don jr. responded, if it's what you say, i love it. especially later in the summer. that response in a meeting between president trump's inner circle and the russians have emerged as key focus of mueller's investigation as to whether the trump team colluded with the russian effort to meddle in the 2016 presidential election. goldstone says he has accepted invitations to come to the u.s. to meet with investigators with mueller's team and the senate. let's bring in my panel. "new york times" reporter and msnbc contributor, newsweek's

senior writer, "new york times" washington correspondent, nbc contributor, charlie savage and senior political correspondent for bustle, erin dellmore. erin, what's your thought in terms of the importance of what we have just learned according to the reporting? >> so many interesting details to pore over from the report and for me, one of f the most interest iing the isstone sayini myself did not mean to interfere in any way with this process. i don't know anything about election law. i was merely making a connection between my client and the person he wanted to meet. which is the role of a publicist. now to me when i read this this, goldstone is trying to distance himself, take thims a step out of the group. that's going to become incredibly interesting for mueller when they meet. this is someone they could get a straight account from and try to kroeb rate it from outside. >> charlie, why is goldstone at

this point, we understand he will be meeting with mueller's team and coming to the united states. why is he having this discussion? is he trying to soften the ground f you will, before he has a conversation with mueller? >> that meeting also recently gave an interviiew blool berg giving her account of the meeting. it's interesting we have both in a couple of weeks, people suddenly breaking their silence after many months. i would add one thing. you said he admitted he puffed up the language. i would say he claimed he puffeded up the language. he's putting forward a theory he exaggerated things, although he didn't make up the offer that was put forward by the russian oligarch and his son, but maybe he didn't exaggerate those details and it really was what they were offering. what mueller lpt to know is what did they say to you to offer trumps. >> and i have a little bit deeper in terms of what we

understand from the sunday times. dpold stone insisting as i read more, as trump jr. did, that the meeting ended awkwardly after he's referring here to the russian lawyer, switching tact from discussing democratic funding as well as moscow's policy that restricts americans from adopting russian children, saying it was vague. generic nonsense, says goldstone. so he is really trying to say i did puff it up and at the end of the day as you can see here what the reaction has been so far, has been nonsense. his words. >> well look, everyone societyuateded with the trump campaign either doesn't remember or remembers saying something grandiose that really, they really didn't have any contacts and if they did, they were only low level. i don't know if bob mueller is going to believe that. those of us aren't privy to what

the special counsel knows. my sus possession is that he and his lawyers must know quite a bit at this point and people are starting to talk. >> and what mueller are care about which you're underlying there is what matters most along with the investigations happening on the hill. all four, because of who did gather for that meeting. eight individuals that includes goldstone in this case. manafort, kushner, don jr., the russian lawyer as well as a russian american lobbyists as well as a russian american business man, all part of that. so matt, that is, this could be a major cog in the argument that mueller will be making. because they sat down here again with representatives. it has been said from russia. >> sure and what you have to remember here is that this isn't happen ng a vacuum. this is all happening right at this moment where donald trump is is cruising towards a general election he's consolidating the

republican base and you see a series of outreaches from russia to try to get access to the trump campaign. all happening around this time. we know a senior russian banker tried to get access to the president's campaign through religious and -- in kentucky. we know about the outreach to george papadopoulos. and we know that they, the russians approaches don jr. with you know, so-called damaging information about hillary clinton. and a in this case, we know the response of the campaign was i love it. so the question is, did anything come of this? we don't know. but you can see a real concerted effort on multipronged attack to try to get access to the trump campaign. >> and maybe what we're learning at least from this report and coming out of the sunday times is the intent, right? from the trump campaign and

family members and those who are close to donald trump at this point. let me read more. the magazine interview saying this. within minutes of starting, jared said to her, the lawyer, could you just get to the point. i'm not sure i'm following what you're saying. this is according to goldstone. goldstone then describing kushner as furious and saying manafort did not seem to look up from checking his messages. don jr. ended it by telling her, again alluding to -- telling her to she should be addressing her concern to the obama administration because they were the ones in power. so erin, you know what it appears at least by goldstone's testimony to an interview with the sunday times, that they may have expected something, they did not get it and that they were upset again, goldstone trying to say there was more to this report than people are

saying about the moment. zpl they walked into the meeting expegting information on o hillary clinton and then the lawyer change d her topic and wanted to talk about the act which leads into the issue of u.s. adoptions of russian children. now goldstone says that's when kushner became agitated. so that's interesting. that once she moved off the topic and started talking about adoptions, the group became agitated. the other question is what is paul manafort doing? most of the people in the has claimed we haven't worked on campaigns before, we don't know the rules. we didn't see this as problematic. manafort is a campaign veteran. you've got to be wondering what's going through his head. that's something. the motive, intent, something goldstone might be able to shed some light on. >> what we're watch, not only goldstone as we get this report today, this sunday, the new pieces of information what we learned towards the end of the week here, charlie that we have hope hicks again communications director fort white house, very close to donald trump over the

years. we have others that are close and currently, serving in the administration that the mueller team will be speaking with either this week or next week. so you put this together. what's your take in terms of the speed and stage at which the mueller team is at? >> mule ear's moving quickly for an investigation of this complexity. i don't think it's a surprise he would want to talk to every person that advantage point on the campaign and on the first couple of months of the trump white house. so it's not a shocking development that hope hicks will be among the ones he talks to, but he is getting closer and closer to the bigger fish in the trump u white house. >> and alexander along with getting closer to the center, the office of the president. there's also the amount of defense that each and every one of these members need to have in front of them and the president has said i will put together a

pot of money. to help all of you. as you go through this very lengthy process with the mueller team. does he have enough money and does this work out okay as we get closer and closer again as i was speaking of to the president? >> you know, that's a question that's very difficult to answer. i just want to go back to one thing that erin said. the adoptions. i want to be clear in this media when we talk about these adoptions, we're really talking about sanctions, put on high level kremlin individuals after a russian lawyer was essentially killed or allowed to die in russian prison. so there was no benevolence about adoption. i'm very confident russian children, russian orphans had nothing to do with the reason

don jr. took this meeting. as for legal defense, remember that donald trump promised to defend anyone who o assaulted a protester at his campaign rally. it's a promise he makes very confidently. i'd love to dig into those numbers when the time comes and see how that turns out. but certainly, everyone is lawyering up in the white house like you know, like it's a watergate or whitewater. this is what happens when you have a special counsel asking everyone questions and like charlie said, he's, mueller is going to do his homework. that's his mandate. >> matt, i want to finish with this. thats the new book coming out from luke harding. and saying christopher steel was interviewed for this book. the individual who had written that dossier that we've been talking about. he was saying he believes 70 to 90% of it is accurate. admitting i guess that even though he put it together, some of it was not fully attributable.

>> well, sure. this dossier that's been kick ing around for over a year, i mean, this is essentially opposition research. this is an intelligence projedu for lack of a bter word. some amount of it is verifiable. some amount of it is not. i don't think anybody should take it as gospel. i don't think the most se lashs things in there has been verified. >> do you think 70 to 90 is too big of a number? do you think it's actually believable? >> i mean, you know, i don't know. the u.s. government has, we know the government has kroeb rated some stuff. but none of the stuff that is the you know, the big salacious stuff, i haven't seen that kroeb rated. >> thank you so much. have a good sunday and holiday.

>> thanks a lot. still ahead, a big endorsement overnight for alabama democratic senate candidate doug jones. as the allegations still grow against his opponent there, roy moore. we go live to birmingham for all of that. plus, a sexual misconduct scandals plague politicians, we'll take a look at how past accusations against president trump are playing into the conversation today. ...my 3-month old business... plus...what if this happened again? i was given warfarin in the hospital, but wondered, was this the best treatment for me? so i made a point to talk to my doctor. he told me about eliquis. eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. not only does eliquis treat dvt and pe blood clots. eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis had both... ...and that turned around my thinking. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to.

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more bad news for roy moore for senate. overnight, the editorial board for the birmingham news, one of alabama's larnlest media outlets there, endorsing democratic, doug jones, in next month's special elections. jones leads moore by eight points in a recent fox news poll. the trending not helping moore as that gap increases. this is the first major poll conducted since nine women have come forward accusing moore of sexual misconduct. maya rodriguez is in birmingham for us. i was pore iing through that editorial board's endorsement and really rejection as you read through it, of the republican and therefore saying because really nobody else we are going for more. what more came from that editorial board article and

number two, how are those in alabama reacting to it? >> so, what we see from the editorial board and again, this is something they published above the fold, above their name plate even, that they find these allegations disturbing and there have been nine allegations so far. women that have come forward and saying that there has been inappropriate behavior on behalf of moore. that moore either touched them or groped them inappropriately. the board basically saying there is no choice at this point, alabama, but to vote for doug jones. this is one of the major newspapers here in alabama like you just mentioned, richard. now, the other person we're hearing from today is a man by the name of wen tinnen. he used to be b a co-worker with lee. she's one of the women who got all of this started. she spoke to the "washington post." share d her story. she said when she was 14 years old, roy moore inappropriately touched her. sexually inappropriately touched

her and that story kind of snowballed with other women coming forward after that. he said he had heard the story before from her when they worked together more than a decade ago here in alabama. moore's name came up at work in conversation. he was in the news on a totally separate issue and she spoke up at this point and here's what she said she said at work at the time. take a listen. >> she des piz that he tried things with her. tried to molest her and she wanted to confront him. she was afraid. and she didn't. but she was definitely upset about it. >> and so it's allegations like that again that cause the editorial board of al.com, alabama.com, a media group that has a number of newspapers in alabama under its belt, including the birmingham news, to say don't vote for roy moore. but again, this is a divided

electorate. the polls, yes, have seen that the voters are split. some polls show an eight-point lead that doug jones has. others show different results. so it's really going to take until the election in december to see how all of this is going to end up playing out. richard. >> as you're in the cafes, as you're walking around there in the streets, now that you've been there for a better part of a week, what are they talking about? what are the words they're using to discuss this race? >> i mean, honestly, it depends on who you talk to. some say they're going to support roy moore. that do not believe these allegations. others say they do believe the women and don't intend to vote for roy moore. today is sunday, a big day in alabama for church services. we spoke to a couple of people at church today. list ton what they had to say. >> i've been a lifelong republican. but i have always voted for the person, just not going to be able to vote for roy moore.

i just don't feel like he's the right person for the position. >> i'm going to vote for moore because i think it's the, i think at least he's trying. to do the right thing. but like all humans, he's probably had some mistakes in his past. >> and there you go. those are two examples that sort of illustrate the divide here among the voters in alabama and we still have, keep in mind, more than three weeks to go before the election. >> you can bet as they all gather there on thanksgiving day or the night before. this will be on the discussion docket. for many a family member as they're cutting that turkey. thank you so much for that. president trump has net yet to comment directly on the sex sexual misconduct allegations against moore, but the white house is pushing back against suggestions that the president does not believe the accusers. >> obviously george if he did not wlooef that the women's accusations were credible, he would be down campaigning for roy moore he has not done that.

he has concerns about the accusation, but he's also concerned they're 38 years old. roy moore has been in public service for decades and the accusati accusations did not arise until a month before elections. >> however, president trump is criticizing al franken. the senator from minnesota. in a news radio or rather news accusing him of harassment more than a decade ago. in that case, he tweeted about this picture hours after it's release. and yet, it's been about 13 months since the audio surfaced. >> i'm automatically attracted to beautiful, it's like a magnet. hey when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> the former spokesperson, ron and times contributing an opinion writer and co-host of kcrw radio series one year

later, jameel smith. jame jameel, we see the polls. we saw the two alabamans saying one, i can't vote for moore. one saying moore is a good guy and he's trying to do the right thing. do you think because we're in the middle of this season, that as families are talking about this, they are seeing their mothers, their sisters, their auntties and uncles and sons sitting across the table that this does not necessarily help moore because these are now real time decisions, real familial discussions happening. >> perhaps that could factor in. if those folks coming to their family dinner tables speak up about the unjust behavior. most people make mistakes in their past. what we need to stop doing is

judging sexual assault and sexual abuse as a mistake. it's a behavior. an action. a crime. and so it's not simply a mistake that roy moore parentally according to these allegations pretty much stalked in you know, tried to date or abuse young women in their teens. especially the youngest one was 14 years old. that's not a mistake. that's something he active chose to do. so when you pif vi that to the president, of course the president is guilty pretty much of almost evesexual misbehavior. force bable kissing, joking about dating teenagers and what not. so i think we need to make sure we put things in the proper frame while what senator franken did was reprehensible and he should resign, it's not the same thing as what roy moore did or simply what the president has done. >> ron, we are on a sunday and

you saw the interviews. in front of a church. and roy moore saying that he's the only christian in this race. that's not true because doug jones, also a christian, which is well-known. how much because we're talk iin about the bible belt here, alabama, and we are talking about the holidays when faith is often brought up. how much will this be part of the debate on the ground in the remaining 23 days we've got? >> well, i think that the tendency in the situation like this is for people who were disinclined to support moore are going to latch on to this and be further an mississippi staimate people who were inclined to support him, people who were very commit today that position will remain so and will find any way they can in order to rationalize it or explain it away like one of the people who was being interviewed, calling it a mistake. a bigger fact is that there are still 23 days to go before election day and the immediate qua cannot repeat the same

allegations every day for 23 days, so there's going to be a flow that happens between now and election day and i think that will be have a big impact on what the final outcome is. make no mistake. roy moore is a deeply flawed candidate who should be running away in a very republican state as a republican nominee. someone who should be replaced as a candidate no matter what. however, it appears at this point that we're left with simply this binary choice and in a heavily republican state, we cannot dismiss that the election is predetermined. so this 23 days left to go and we'll see how he responds here. it would be preferable for his campaign that he does a better job responding because so far, i don't think he's convincing anybody. >> how influential do you think this board will be because they have so several outlets here tl in alabama, will be on those who might be on the edge right now? >> i think that's a good question because i think that there's a tendency to if you take a newspaper editorial and

evaluate it by itself, the impact isn't as great as some may think. if newspaper editorials made the difference, the mayor of san diego would be someone else and congressman would be someone else. however, it contributes to the earned media site. which is why we're on a national media program talking about it ch it's smothering moore's ability to get out any other message and he's lost control of the narrative and this campaign. >> this coming from the president just within the last bunch of minutes here. and he was saying, donald trump, on his twitter account. now that the three basketball player rs out of china safe from years in jail, the father of liangelo is unaccepts of what i did for his son. i should have left them in jail.

the president again stating during his trip that he was able to get out those three ucla ballplayers. and that, being one of his major accomplishments, those who were watching on the outside saying but there were no policy accomplishments. >> i think you see here another example of donald trump trying to pick a fight with a prom black person. who he considers uppity. i think that when you have president tweeting out that a person did not display sufficient feelty or loyalty to him in recompense for an action a president should be doing any way, i think we have a really dangerous precedent being set here. this is stuff you hear from third world dictators not from presidents of the united states. when you talk about these three young when, who actually did make a mistake and committed this minor crime and the idea that the president would need to be thanked enough in order to justify the actions taken to make sure that their freedom is secured, that should be called

out by every single person from both side of the al as reprehensible and beneath the dignity of the office. >> it would be a surprise to many and ron, react to what jamil is saying. >> i think within 24 hour's time, we'll have moved on to something else. hopefully manager more significant more significant than this i don't want to see anyone subjected to the chinese criminal justice system and what he did was the right thing and stands on its own merit regardless of what people might comment on it. >> ron, jamil, old frnd here, thank you both and have a good holiday. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> all right. jeff sessions in the hot seat. the attorney general faced tough questions on capitol hill this week, but provided very few answers. after the break, we'll talk to one of the lawmakers who pressed sessions on the issues. >> did you mean -- with any

trump surrogates about russia? >> i do not recall, you know i recall. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything so we know how to cover almost anything. even a "red-hot mascot." [mascot] hey-oooo! whoop, whoop! [crowd 1] hey, you're on fire! [mascot] you bet i am! [crowd 2] dude, you're on fire! [mascot] oh, yeah! [crowd 3] no, you're on fire! look behind you. [mascot] i'm cool. i'm cool. [burke] that's one way to fire up the crowd. but we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

welcome back.

thanks for sticking with us. here are the ratest headlines we're following. special counsel robert mueller may get new information on that now infamous meeting between donald trump jr. and a group of russians at trump tower in 2016. the person who put it together, that meeting, british publicist, rob goldstone, says he's ready to talk now with mueller's team. not sure when to expect that meeting. with we don't know the exact details, but his lawyer says that quote, nothing is presently scheduled. new orleans will have its very first female mayor. there she is. in its 300-year history. she won saturday's election by a landslide, getting 60% of the vote. cantrell first gained political notoriety when she worked tirelessly to help her hard hit neighborhood recover from hurricane katrina and a sign of hope that the 44 crew members of a missing argentine navy sub may

be alive. officials say several signals were detected. a likely sign the crew was trying to make contact by satellite. they are working to trace the location of seven failed satellite calls. that's some good news. attorney general jeff sessions, his hearing turned into well, a game of memory on tuesday. as the head of the doj said he could not recall details about meetings with russia p contacts while working with the trump campaign. well, "saturday night live" could not resist poking a little fun here at sessions' memory with a re-enactment of his testimony. >> when i say you do not, you say recall. i do not -- >> recall. >> oh. thank you. >> that's great. >> now that's a recall and response caller. my catch phrase. >> yeah. >> catch phrase. >> i notice you said that a lot

during testimony. do you really not remember meeting with george papadopoulos about russia? >> well, you know, i've had some memory problems stemming from a childhood trauma. >> a childhood trauma? what was that? >> the passing of the civil rights act. >> joining me now, karen bass who had her own testy exchange with sessions. it is great to see you. i saw you laugh a little when watching that from "saturday night live." what do you make of the remembering to remember or forgetting, the way it was portrayed there. >> well, i just think that the attorney general is extremely disingenuo disingenuous. he's had plenty of time to review the record, to review other people being in the room and he's just not honest. that's the bottom line. you had an interaction during that hearing. with the attorney general. >> yes.

>> you were very details and you went, your set of questions one by one by one by one. did you walk away from that interaction feeling that you got the anxiouses you wanted and at one point, he did smile. it appeared. and do you understand why he did do that? >> well, i think he smiled because he could not legitimately answer that that question when i asked him about if r him to say he really wasn't familiar with that term. i think he's very knowledgeable of the ku klux klan. of what happened in r charlottesville and i think that he was laughing at his own dishonesty, frankly. >> you were accusing asking about the question of the idea of black identity extremetists. right? and implying that to the ku klux klan as well as other groups that go back decades and decades in our country and you'd ask him whether or not he was also understanding whether he thought

there were the e equivalance equivalance lebt of that bhen he answered, what did you take away from his answer? >> that he knew exactly what i was asking and he was deliberately choosing not to answer. i'm very concerned about this report because i'm concerned that legitimate organizations involved in xering they first amendment rights like lives matter are now coming under increased harassment and surveillance from law enforcement agencies and i think the document they are distributing is really declaring open season on a lot of organizations that are doing nothing but what is their perfect right in the constitution. >> do you think back to in potentially those who are looking at historical precedents here are looking at hoover during that time when he was targeting civil rights groups? do you maybe a comparison and contrast with what's happening now? >> i absolutely do. and i was a young activist during those years and experienced that.

that's why i'm very committed to make sure that does not happen to another generation of activists and i don't believe that there is such a thing as black identity extremists. i think it's fiction. i think it was made up by the fbi and i do not believe there is a movement of ogss that are specifically targeted police officers in a violent manner f. you look at the black lives matters protest, they've become very multiracial. so i'm concerned that targeting and labeling will essentially give a green light to law enforcement agencies around the country. i do not want to see that happen. >> two other things that i want to get your reaction on. that are different from this topic, potentially donald trump, the president tweeting this out today. this in reaction again to the three ucla basketball players that were released from china and he tweeted this. he said now that the three basketball player rs out of china and saved from years in jail, the father is unaccepting

of what i did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. i should have left them in jail. he's reacting to the father as was said in the this tweet right here, who does not believe that the president was instrumental in the release of his son and the two others. what do you make of the president saying what he said, i should have left them in jail? >> well, i think it's swrus another example of the president deminnishing the presidency. each of these young men apologized and personally thanked the president. as far as i'm concerned, nothing more is needed and if he can't think of anything better to do on o a sunday with all of the problems in the world and in our country, i think it's very sad and it shows it's a very small. he has diminished the presidency in the last 11 months. >> i know you have some time off, but you've got a lot in front of you. in the remaining weeks there on the hill. the tax plan certainly include ed in all of that as well as the other issues related to your

work. thank you so much and have a great thanksgiving. >> same to you. >> still ahead. hamilton creator talks about his efforts to help the people of puerto rico in the aftermath of hurricane maria. what he says is the biggest challenge. when it comes to strong bones, are you on the right path? we have postmenopausal osteoporosis... ..and a high risk for fracture, so with our doctors... ...we chose prolia®... ...to help make our bones stronger. only prolia® helps strengthen bones...

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hurricane maria. pace of recovery if you're wahoffing that lynn manual has been outspoken. he sat down to talk about the resilience of the people of puerto rico. >> you've seen puerto rico taken advantage of over and over and over again. even in the midst of the suffering there. it's, i guess i'm just asking for a comment. i don't really have a question. it's just shocking. >> yeah, it's shock iing and it maddening and it's part of the reason we're here today. puerto ricans are resilient and they work hard and if given a fair shot, they'll come back and we'll rebuild our island, but we haven't seen anything close to a fair shot yet so we're what we're asking for is a fair and transparent rebuilding process. we're seeing the ultimate words matter and we're seeing the ultimate example of that. we found out about the scandal because of great reporting. we found out about all these things because people spoke up u and amplified those stories.

the stories that were not the main narrative of the administration and so that's more important than ever. your voice just as important as anything else. >> all right. still ahead, the biggest loser as house republicans celebrate the passage of their tax bill, one critic says humans will be the hardest hit by the tax plan. we'll get to that.

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this week the republican tx plan passed in the house. it's expected to be the very same when the senate votes on its version. supporters of the plans argue that it will stimulate economic growth and provide much needed tax relief to americans across the economic spec spectrum. but its critics say that it helps the very wealthy at the expense evof average and poor americans. both sides of the aisle shared their shouts about. >> both house and senate, i think it's designed to do two things. one to create immediately more take home pay for hard working families and the second thing is

to at the other echbd ether end we can to ensure better jobs in the future. >> this is about making the business tax system competitive which is about creating jobs. and this is about a very significant middle income tax cut. >> what this legislation is about is giving 50% of the tax benefits to the top 1%. and at the end of ten years in the house bill, forcing almost 50% of the middle class to actually pay more in taxes. >> let's bring in opinion columnist from the "washington post" and also reporter from the huffington "post." we were talking about earlier your op-ed and the bigsbiggest humans. you're saying everybody will lose? >> what i'm saying is for years republicans like mitt romney have been saying corporations are people, too. right? you remember that from several years ago. >> i do. >> the question we should be

requesting are you a corporate person or human person. if you're a human person, you will be worse off. if you make -- if you're in a household that makes under $75,000 by 2027, your tax bill is going to go up. the question we should be asking as republican legislators and members of the white house should be if this bill is so great, why do they need to keep misrepresenting what it does. if you look at these nonpartisan analyses, it leaves the middle class worse off, it leaves corporations and wealthy households much better off. >> and as part of it though, matt, be when you look at the numbers every single tax bracket according to the white house and its plan -- excuse me, according to the senate and the house and their plans, everybody gets some sort of cut. but then there is the net issue, right? because taxes will go up in some cases. >> well, as she notes, we do

know corporate taxes are going down. it's a little trickier than just saying if you're at this income bracket your taxes are going down by this much. it really depends on the certain deductions that you take, obviously the big fight in the house was the state and local tax deduction depending on if you were in a high tax state already, you're able to deduct those taxes from your tax bill. republicans counter and say we're doubling the standard deduction, we're making it easier, we're lowings ra ining for most it seems. but it does seem like the tax policy center, 47% of this is going to the richest 1%. and it's tough to square a little bit with this the sort of middle class tax cut that it has been sold as. >> the reason why those are the net results to be clear is that the rate cuts for corporations are permanent and the rate cuts for individuals or the goody, doubling the standard deduction, increasing the child tax credit,

those are temporary. those expire. >> and republicans do say we'll take care of that, this is just a score keeping issue. right now they are allowed to spend basically $1.5 trillion in the bill and they say look at the bush tax cuts, we renewed those. >> but is a pinky promise enough? >> that is a good question. and the other part of it is, you know, with bob corker and these other republicans who say they are deficit hawks, if you are doing this and it's just a bookkeeping game of $1.5 trillion or so and there is really spending like $2 trillion, what is the level here that some of these republicans are going to allow and that is a big question going forward. but it seems like there is a general belief that tax cuts pay for themselves and they should have runway that we should allow the tax cuts to go through. it's just a question of where people will start drawing the line. >> comment on the individual mandate believed to save $330

billion over the ten years. but then mick mulvaney today saying on cnn state of the union, we need to he remove that, we'll do that. i mean, are we in game playing spaces?he remove that, we'll do that. i mean, are we in game playing spaces? >> the politics surrounding the individual mandate are very complicated. and i say they are complicated in the sense that most persons don't like this, be it's actually one of the few provisions from the affordable care act that is unpopular. almost everything else in the bill is quite popular. so the mandate itself is unpop y unpopular. but if you remove the man darkts premiums will go up, people will lose insurance sxulas a result, people won't apply for medicaid because they won't realize they are eligible. so i think the white house is trying to figure out what kind of connection do voters actually perceive between this mandate which for a long time they have hated and these potentially terrible outcomes for a lot of

lower income americans. if people are actually learning about what removing this provision would do to their families, what it would do to their neighbors, it might turn out that keeping the mandate is more popular than they have thought in the past. katherine, matt, we're early on in this debate and humans is the focus clearly. thank you so much. still ahead, the trump effect, how the commander in chief's response to sexual misconduct scandals could impact the gop in the long term. ♪

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richard lui back here with you for another hour on msnbc. we'll start with the latest on the sex allegations that have coupled next month's special senate election in alabama. president trump has had very little to say about the accusations leveled against republican candidate roy moore who has been accused of sexual assaulting several teens when he was in his early 30s. but today one trump adviser is trying to put distance between the president and moore. let's get the latest from jeff benne bennett. >> reporter: president trump has not withdrawn his endorsement of moore in the wake of the accusations that he made unwanted sexual advances to some teens decades ago, but mark short as you say tried to create some distance between moore and the president on one of the sunday