richard lui back here with you for another hour on msnbc. we'll start with the latest on the sex allegations that have coupled next month's special senate election in alabama. president trump has had very little to say about the accusations leveled against republican candidate roy moore who has been accused of sexual assaulting several teens when he was in his early 30s. but today one trump adviser is trying to put distance between the president and moore. let's get the latest from jeff benne bennett. >> reporter: president trump has not withdrawn his endorsement of moore in the wake of the accusations that he made unwanted sexual advances to some teens decades ago, but mark short as you say tried to create some distance between moore and the president on one of the sunday shows and suggesting that

president trump believes the women making the accusations against roy moore are credible. take a look. >> obviously if he did not believe that the women's accusations were credible, he would be down campaigning. he has not done that. he has concerns, but he also concerned that the accusations are 38 years old, roy moore has been in public service for decades and the accusations did not a rise until a month before elections. >> reporter: he also says the white house has concerns about the timing of the allegations coming just a few week before that special election and he echoed what is now the white house official line, that it's up to the people in alabama to make a choice about roy moore's political future. that is the safest political path for this president, people close to president trump tell me that they say he is reluctant to weigh into this race to give the impression that he is meddling in it, intervening in it, because he knows that many of the same people that support roy

moore also support him. now, the president is here at the white house. we don't expect to hear or see him today, but instead the president is directing his attention on twitter to lavar balan ball, father of one of the three ucla players arrested in china. ball has down played trump's involvement in getting the three young men back, and the president tweeted now that the three basketball players are out of china and saved from years in jail, lavar ball, father of lee anxio liangelo ball, is unaccepting of what i did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. i should have left them in jail. so the president weighing in and his critics say makes his relative silence on roy moore all the more conspicuous. >> jeff bennett, thank you so much. let's bring in our panel. elanad

also professor at george mason university. number two, one, as jeff was outlining, the reaction related to what has been a criticism the president by the father of one of the three players that were released from china. and as jeff was saying, it's noteworthy because he has not commented on what might be a major topic for his party, a major topic for this president when we talk about sexual assault. he has been absent from commenting on that regarding roy moore. why is the president doing this? >> well, let also remember that the president took aim at al franken for his own ever, much less lesser sexual misconduct scan l scandal. this is all in an attempt to change the subject because as mark short's comments suggested, there is some need to create some distance and trump is unlikely to address this directly until he can figure a way out of this political find. >> as he tries to look at the

very issue and try to find a way out of the bind, he is caught between a rock and a hard place some might say here, charlie, because of the accusations levied against him by more than a dozen women as we have played before here. when will -- and many are asking this, when will the president react to moore, when will he address the very accusations that are still being -- still running through the court systems today? >> he won't. you know, i think antarctica will freeze over again before he does that. he's going to brazen his way, he only has to go another two weeks and then roy moore will either be the senate's problem or he'll be off the front page. and i think that is what the president is counting on. >> part of that is that the preside president's senior staff have

thrown their arms up in the arm when it comes to the president and twitter. and probably not first time they have continue that, but they really have done it again and when we look at the tweet today, we look at the tweet related to al franken, and then the absence thereof for again roy moore, that they really won't be able to direct this president when it comes to these very difficult issues. >> look, it's really a challenge. we can't minimize what happened with al franken or the claims against roy moore. and i'm a ucla alum, i think they made some bad judgment decisions. but for the president to get in the mix with lavar ball or some of the members of his cabinet, didn't make a lot of sense. the president should focus on the issues that are before him, the tax cuts. he has a great agenda in some areas and he should focus on that agenda and move that ball forward rather than worry about

what lavar ball says or doesn't say. he is out there all the time. if everyone responded to what lavar ball said, we'd be here all day talking about that. >> and you heard mark short really not answering the question, does the president believe or not believe the accusers against roy moore. not answering the yes or no question that he could have answered. why doesn't this white house, why don't his staff and those who are around him just say we believe or don't believe whatever the case may be, move on from roy moore, take the lead -- maintain the lead in the senate 51 and let that one go? because otherwise there is a huge overhang in the next six to who knows how many months on this very topic. >> well, look, first of all, it's important to remember that losing that one vote in the senate could make all the difference on tax reform because you already have a number of wavering republican senators.

so it might seem simple, but it's the timing that makes this of utmost importance for the whoufs. and of course the white house can't exactly go fully beyond we find the women credible because as you mentioned, president trump has his own issues with alleged sexual assault and misconduct. hence the seeming lack of a clear position. also let's remember that the white house spokesman said last week that the reason the president tweeted about al franken is because he admitted wrongdoing and the president himself has not admitted wrongdoing, hence the white house believes we should all just move forward. and you know who else hasn't admitted wrongdoing? roy moore. >> that's right. and when you look at that here charlie, reflect on what was said by elana and that issue of 51. >> yeah, the people who are saying that if roy moore gets elected, they should essentially swear him in and defrock him, that puts them in the same bind. if he wins the senate, they have

to keep him there. and there are plenty of good reasons beyond this misconduct -- these misconduct allegations not to have roy moore not in the senate. he is a theocratic bag of walnuts and the most public null guyer we' e null guyer since george wallace. >> but when we look at locally what is happening, al.com basically saying that we reject roy moore and because that only leaves us one choice, we are going at the moment for doug jones. do you think that will have an impact on the outcome here, jamei jameill? >> it's hard to know, but it is an influential website. so it carries a lot of weight. look, it's clearly into the full throated endorsement of doug jones, but obviously the roy moore situation is very problematic fors in alabama and for the u.s. senate.

you have cory gardner saying moore should be removed if elected. and i don't want to minimize the franken situation either. having taken responsibility, it took him a while to get there, so let's be clear, al franken is not innocent in this at all, but the roy moore situation is very problematic and one that republicans will have to deal with. and tweeting about lavar ball isn't solving that problem to be sure. >> and that argument of equivalency being made by some because you have the democrat al franken on one side and then you have roy moore the republican, yet this is not like the equations we did in math class where if you have one on the left and you ever one on the right, you can cross them off and therefore they don't exist. it doesn't -- when we talk about sexual harassment, if there is one on the left and there is one on the right, there is one on the left and right and they are both wrong. and at the moment those looking at sexual harassment say don't politicize this. it's wrong in alabama, it's

wrong in minnesota. >> and i will tell you speaking from capitol hill members of both parties understand that more names may come out, that this is a systemic problem. so i think you are seeing less of that partisan equivalency behind closed doors. of course on the campaign trail and in the white house, judging from the president's tweets, that is another story. >> charlie, where will this all go? they aare evaluating their very rule set in congress. some 200 cases, some $15 million related to this space of sexual harassment but not all-inclusive there of the cases itself. but they have a lot of opportunity on the hill specifically in congress to get up to par, to do what the mainstream is doing and many would say everyone the mainstream is not enough. >> yeah, i think that we're in this moment right nowthe mainstm is not enough. >> yeah, i think that we're in this moment right now where everything seems to be coming to

us all at once and everything is super heated. i think everybody knows on both sides of the aisle that if you open the floodgates on this, it will be an incredible mess. this would be the time if we had a normal functioning congress that you'd ask for a special committee made up of both houses -- both parties from both houses of congress, similar to the watergate investigation, to get as much of this out in public as you can. but we don't have a congress that functions that way anymore. >> but we do have a trend of watershed moments, one example as of late would be the lgbtq community, snag follomething for thought would happen but that happened in recent times. that was a watershed moment. and then we see what is happening in hollywood and all the stories coming out and now the most powerful holes of power related to politics. so are we at that -- it may appear or may not that that same

momentum that pushed the rights for the lgbt community is now knocking on the door when it comes to equality for women. >> well, i mean look, it's 2017. and i think a lot of women are aghast that we're even phrasing it that way. but i don't necessarily disagree. and when it comes to charlie's point about a commission, i think it might actually be more impactful to just pass legislation. congresswoman speer and senator gillibrand have a pretty strong bill on this that has house backing, but not yet senate backing which is interesting when you consider the roy moore situation. >> and let's get some men there congress also part of those bills too, i think some might say. not only the female members of congress backing these bills. charlie, elana, jameill, thank you. still ahead, attorney general jeff sessions glrilled over his forgetfulness. after the break, we'll talk about the frustration over him slighting the seriousness of his

testimony. >> i don't recall it. i don't recall ever being made aware of that before. i don't recall it. i do not recall such a conversation. man: proper etiquette is essential for every social occasion. so the the broom said, "sorry i'm late. i over-swept." [ laughter ] yes, even the awkward among us deserve some laughter. and while it's okay to nibble in public, a lady only dines in private. try the name your price tool from progressive. it gives you options based on your budget.

uh-oh. discussing finances is a big no-no. what, i'm helping her save money! shh! men are talking. that's it, i'm out. taking the meatballs. your bbut as you get older,ing. it naturally begins to change, that's it, i'm out. causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish.

in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.

attorney general jeff sessions seems to have changed his story again this week telling congress that he now recalls george papadopoulous' offer to set up a meeting with vladimir putin. sessions denied even having lied under oath about contact between

russia and the trump campaign. instead blaming a faulty memory, his own. but it's not the first time sessions has misremembered the past while testifying before congress. earlier this year he came under fire for failing to disclose meetings with then russian ambassador to the united states kislysergey kislyak. serious allegations that sessions seemed to take lightly. >> is ambassador kislyak in the room? before i get started here. any russians? anybody been to russia? got a cousin in russia? any way -- >> let's bring in democratic congressman from california ted

lu. great to see you. if this were a standup comedian, these might be issues to perhaps have a chuckle about if it were to be "saturday night live," this may be something to have a chuckle about. but critics would say the attorney general of the united states who is in the middle of this investigation, why are we seeing this. >> thank you for your question. making fun of lying to congress should never be something that we should chuckle about. and keep in mind this case, it's not as if jeff sessions is in trouble because he happened to be in the same location with russians. he is in trouble because he had a nearly hour long meeting with ambassador kislyak who is well-known as a spy and spy recruiter for russia, and they talked about ukraine and other campaign related issues and then he lied about to the u.s. senate. that is very different, not something that he should be joking about. >> do you think congress should go after the attorney general here again for misstating or

depending on the view lying about what he knew and when he knew it, as was said he remembered to remember in his latest testimony? >> so keep in mind it's not just one time that he made a false statement. he made multiple false statements on a security clearance form when he denied any contacts with foreign officials, and also recently he admitted before the house judiciary committee of which i sit that in fact he knew that george papadopoulous a trump campaign official had contacts with russia. that is something that he said exactly the opposite two the u.s. senate just a few weeks ago. so i think the special counsel is very aware of this. all he has to do is watch tv. and i hope the special counsel will investigate and then if it's appropriate, bring charges of perjury. >> congress has the ability to do that. will you push for that, representative, in he proceedings there in congress? >> it's hard to do it when republicans control, but i do know that in less than a year,

the voters get to vote on whether they want to change the makeup of congress. and if democrats took control next november, not only would we be able to pass good legislation, actually helps americans and give americans a better deal, but we have subpoena power. so we can actually subpoena documents, make witnesses come and testify under oath. it would be a big sea change next november if we could take back the house. >> and another development which we're watching related to the russian connection question is rob goldstone the individual, one of the eight folks that did sit down in trump tower, coming out in a report from the sunday "times" saying that all the reporting around this is a little bit blown up, a little bit more puffery because not much happened there. begin, this is in advance of what we believe to be happening very soon. and that is rob goldstone going to be meeting with the mueller team. you were alluding about mueller's investigation. what do you make of him coming out early and saying much ado

about nothing? >> the first thing i note is that robert mueller and his team believe that this meeting was significant between donald trump jr., paul manafort and jared kushner with russian operatives and i would love to see what will goldstone says to mueller. but the fact that they are even interested in talking to him tells me that mueller believes that something happened there. and it's he very clear from the e-mails that donald trump jr. was trying to get dirt on tim kaine from the hillary clinton from the kremlin. >> and there is also the revelation here represented to jared kushner, son-in-law of the president trump, through ean e-mail chain that describes deputy head of russian central bark, allegations of being associated with the mafia there in russia. again, allegations. but the heart of that reporting that came out over this weekend

was that there was a request from him to meet with then candidate donald trump and jared kushner not divulging that when he was asked what contacts were made with russians. >> so when you look at all this, either you have to believe that numerous trump officials, jared kushner, jeff sessions and others, all happened to have selective memory loss when it comes to anything related to russia, or something bad hat happened last year. and with jared kushner, this is not the first time that he failed to disclose. he had to submit three security form applications because his first two omitted anything to do with russia and then we see he omitted information to the u.s. senate and now we see this. so jared kushner can't keep on saying he's just for getting because it's now a pattern that shows he is intentionally omitting anything criminatory related to him and the kremlin.

>> and legal peril certainly part of it. what do you know where the mueller team is right now because you are seeing all these oranges in the air shall we say. where do you think he is? >> well, we do know that there are different sealed indictments in the court system. they may or may not relate to his indictments, but my sense from reading sort of the tea leaves is that at least one or two of those are related to what he is investigating. and it's very clear to me that michael flynn did also something very, very bad last year. and at the end of the day, special counsel mueller is a vietnam veteran bronze star individual and i trust him to gather the prosecute if he believes it's proept. >> thank you, sir. still ahead, a study he showing that african-american men will serve longer sentences for the

very time crime that their white counterparts have also committed. how some high profile celebrities are weighing in on those racial disparities. i accept i don't bike as far as i used to. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but no matter where i ride, i go for my best. so if there's something better than warfarin, i'll go for that too. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis,

you may bruise more easily... ...and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i'm still going for my best. and for eliquis. ask your doctor about eliquis. ♪

. as we're seeing today -- welcome back by the way. we're watching here some of the latest headlines. president trump is getting back up from one of his top advisers regarding roy moore and the senate race in alabama, office of management and budget director mick mulvaney saying that the president does not know who to believe regarding sexual misconduct and assault allegations. and we're also seeing that these accusations against republican senate candidate roy moore are impacting the latest poll numbers. questions resurfacing about the allegations of sexual misconduct against president trump before the 20 16 election. we'll take a look at why voters are responding differently there. plus political scandals get the snl treatment, even former cast members are not immune. >> i know this photo looks bad, but remember, it also is bad. and sure this was taken before

franken ran for public office, but it was also taken after he was a sophomore in high school. pretty hard to be like oh, come on, he didn't know any better, he was only 55. ♪

it's time for the sleep number semi-annual sale on the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort your sleep number setting. and snoring? does your bed do that? it's the final days of our semi-annual sale, where our c4 mattress with adjustable comfort on both sides is now only $1499.

save $300. ends sunday. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... ...isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,... ...with reduced redness,... ...thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has... ...no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased... ...risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have... ...a history of depression... ...or suicidal thoughts,... ...or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla... ...reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper... ...respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take...

...and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. i said that i thought the story that -- the women's story was more credible than his response and alabama voters deserved a better choice, but they will have to make that decision. they know roy moore a whole lot better than i do. >> republican senator roy blunt

says he finds the women accusing roy moore of sexual misconduct credible, but then what about the women who accused donald trump of similar conduct in the weeks and months before last week's election? >> whatever they had to say, people heard that and they elected president trump the president of the united states. so at some point i think you have to let the voters have a say. >> reporte . >> so as republicans grapple with their response, could he they also find themselves facing questions about the president's past and similar allegations against the president. >> i'm automatically attracted to beautiful. kissing them is like a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> let's bring in julian epstein, charlie kirk, and kyle whitmeir and am police is

rosenberg. kyle, because related to all of this in alabama itself, al.com, it does have three print newspapers out there. and they have come out saying no roy moore, yes doug jones. and specific to that, they are saying now is the time for the women of alabama to be front and center. what do you think the result of this editor krial board's endo e endorsement of doug jones will mean to the outcome here? >> already we're seeing polling numbers moving in doug jones' direction. but look, whether this influences -- this brings the state of alabama into doug jones' camp is almost past the point. as a news organization, some of our member papers during the civil rights movement were not always bold, did not always step out, did not speak up honestly

when we should have. and i think as an organization we have made the decision that that is not a mistake that we are going to repeat. and that we're going to step up and say look, everybody has to choose who they believe here and we are choosing to believe these women. and if you believe them, and it's still shocking to me that we have public officials in alabama who say that they believe the women and yet they will still vote for roy moore including our governor kay ivey. if you believe these women, then what you're saying is that if you're voting for roy moore, you don't mind that he's a child mole molester. and we're saying look, that is not conscionable. if you believe these women, you have to vote for doug jones or not vote at all. >> kyle, that was one of the dynamics analysts were looking at out of the 2016 election.

we were playing some of the tape from "access hollywood." that those who just want a change also made secondary the very issue of sexual harassment based on that and that you would see a similar dynamic i guess which is happening right now. kyle, it says in the editorial board -- the op-ed here, the election is a turning point for women in men think about this alabama? >> you know, the polling shows that men have not moved on this race as much as women have. but look, at some point it's just a matter of credibility. and roy moore's credibility, if you don't believe the women, go read roy moore's book. in his book he talks about when he and his wife kayla first started dating, he had taken notice of her many years earlier and we now have a video interview that he gave earlier this summer where he says many

years means eight. that right there says that roy moore first took notice of his wife, his future wife, when she was 15 years old. okay. so this is not -- you put all of this together, you know, whether you're a man, a woman or whatever, if you're not just being willfully blind to the facts and willfully blind to the evidence, you have to believe the women. >> alyssa, the governor, kay iv ivey, saying in effect i believe these accusations, they are very serious, i'm still going to vote for roy moore. that dynamic that i was discussing earlier that might be the overhang from the 2016 election which you may be absolutely against sexual harassment, but for political reasons, you're going to ignore that. i mean that is really the dynamic that kyle is describing for us.

what does that mean there for alabama? >> well, i think there is something else at work here too. because i have heard over and over again from female readers that they believe sexual harassment is inevitable and there is nothing that they can do about it. and events since the 2016 election have definitely demonstrated just how widespread sexual harassment and sexual abuse, sexual assault are among powerful men. and i also think that it is a reminder that there is something that you can do to stop it, people like harvey weinstein have gotten fired, kevin spacey has been kicked off house"house card cards". same thing may happen witrance pare transpare transparent. hard to find a man who hachbt do hachbt done it, i understand that level of december entirspa hope they realize that we do have choices and we don't have

to put up with it or even necessarily for political victory. if you want to elect a republican to the senate in alabama, you have options other than roy moore. if you want someone with roy moore's agenda in the senate, i think you could probably find someone who didn't like picking up teenage girls when he was in his 30s. >> and i want to move on to gretchen carlson who tweeted this in response to donald trump and his tweet on al franken. she is asking specifically the president it would seem what about the accusation against you and the accusations and all the women that have come forward. what do you think of what is happening on the national level, what is happening in minnesota? it started with just roy moore, but thousand you snow hyou see of the aisle taken into this. >> as far as the president is concerned, people keep saying on a regular basis we see so much misconduct so so many levels from the president, when will there be a day of reckoning.

and as far as trump is concerned, remember watergate was nearly two years before it kind of caught up with richard nixon. and whether it's the president's misconduct, whether it's the scandal in russia, whether it's his narcicisstic insecurities, whether it's his inability to perform on a national stage and in a national stage, the net effect is that the republicans are now in a massive civil war internally. the poll numbers of this president and the republican party in general if you look at what happened in the virginia elections are in the dumps. and they are kind of in a death spiral that the point. so the notion that all of these things are not catching up with president trump i think is wrong. i think that the gestalt is that they are catching up and look at

the november elections. >> and there is also some that would say that the very same thing, the very same ex-tistentl fight is happening on on the democratic side. charlie, i want to stay focused on the accusations from all of these women. as we look at the left, we look at the right, we look at the president, we look at those who are senators, these are all wrong if the allegations are true. and some are saying don't overpoliticize this please because in each one of these cases, it is just bad stuff. >> i agree with that. and i'm a conservative, a proud conservative. and i called for roy moore to step down because i believe the women, i think there is plenty of details and evidence around that show that, i think he did do horrible things in the past that i don't think are forgivable. and i think the same could be said about al franken.

you have to be kconsistent. and i think it takes people on both sides of the aisle to not be afraid to call out senators or leaders or representatives in their own party and when it comes to the president though, we took a hard look at this about a year ago and every single one -- everyone ti time s to court, it gets tossed out as unsubstantiated claims against him with very contradicting details and evidence around it. i agree with what was said earlier about roy moore and as a conservative i would hate to lose that seat, but there has to be a line. and i think that line was definitely crossed looking back into what roy moore did. so not to be overly politicized, but i think every accusation -- and it's important not to say just women. men get preyed on too. you look at kevin spacey. so every accusation should be listened to, not necessarily believed. they need to be checked out. >> so it sounds like you're saying the accusations against the president, and there are

more than a skin and you have seen all of their -- what they have said on tape, and you're saying those are not believable, you don't believe them? >> so do you mean harassment or do you mean the doctoiscredited lawsuits against the president that got tossed out by every judge that saw the cases? two different things. >> right now there are ongoing cases and we have played that tape several times glptimes. >> there is one ongoing case. and we'll find out before the end of the case. it's did the president say things that are not appropriate, which we have on tape, or -- >> but do you believe -- >> harassment and abuse are two different things. >> my question is do you believe the accusers or not? >> no, i do not, because every time it gets in front of a judge, first of all, they were not tried criminally and when put in front of a judge, they get tossed every single time and we saw that four days before the election last year, a judge

tossed out that case because there was not enough evidence and it was a civil accusation. so i believe it is all garbage. >> and you believe the president's statements are appropriate? >> no, i said the build billy b tames were key flodee morplorab apologized. saying bad things and doing bad things are two different things. >> does it make a difference to what voters are going to be doing come december here? because you know, the conversation has been everybody outside of the state, you're talking about whatever you want to talk about, but we have to decide for ourselves. >> if roy moore is elected -- and i think we're getting a taste right now for what would happen if roy moore is elected. i mean, it has been a concern of mine, concern everof a lot of pe here of what roy moore would do to alabama's brand.

it hasn't always been the greatest, but this would make thinging even wor ining ins eve. and now you have republicans throughout this country who just like right on this show are being asked what do you think when roy moore. and that is not an easy question for them to answer. >> it's not easy to answer and certainly everything around it as you were outlining for us. kyle, charlie, julian, alyssa, i owe you both time next time. still ahead, rapper jay-z def d defends meek mill. how a new study is driving a powerful discussion about race and incarceration in america. about a medication, this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further irreversible damage. this is humira helping me reach for more.

humira has been clinically studied for over 20 years. humira works for many adults. it targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com. this is humira at work.

a new study on prison sentencing has unfortunate implications for racial just disin the united states. the u.s. sentencing commission found this, black men who commit the very same crimes as whites men receive federal prison sentences that are on average nearly 20% longer. that is in part of a report that arrives at a time surroundingry shal disparities in policing has become an indelible part of our political landscape. carol mason and glenn martin and lola, host of entertainment weekly, joining us.

carol, react for us because you're our academic on this. and you know this report and the details well. and i'll throw up this graphic for our audience here. and it basically shows the difference, this is element one here, across periods of time from 1998 to 2016. and you can see with similar backgrounds again of crimes, but the difference in the increase of the time served for black men versus white men. is this consistent with what your research has been showing? >> yes he. and what it tells us is this is an opportunity for judges to focus on the data and see what is happening. because there is clearly implicit by as happening. i'm not going to accuse anyone of being overtly racist, but the data doesn't lie and it shows that we have made great progress in reducing incarceration, we

have the institute for prosecution helping prosecutors think broke their charging decisions. now we have to work with the judges and help them see this da data. because they controlled it for violence issues and it's people with similar circumstances pap 20% higher rate of incarceration for people who are black. that is not acceptable. >> and often what we'll do at the next step, glenn, the data itself and based on reporting of data, and coming forward and we're seeing that certainly in the issue of sexual harassment, is this also part of those individuals now feeling more comfortable coming forward saying, yes, this is the difference, i will now raise my hand talking about the african-american community? >> i think that this report is important because it brings even more transparency to our criminal justice system. the fact of the matter is that this report is only shocking to people who haven't been paying attention. the fact in america the most

successful diversion program for the last 400 years has been whites skin and privilege. so if you are a man of color living in this country, you already knew this. but the policymakers i think need to see the data to better understand how this stuff is playing out and to really be thoughtful about how we're engaging judges and other players in the criminal justice system in their decision making. it's not that the individuals are racist, but that the system tends to be systemically racist and we shouldn't be surprised because much of our criminal justice system is built upon other systems that have been oppressive to people of color, whether jim crow, so on. >> and it is growing because this is your expertise when we look at different media, not only movies that are not being executive produced by african-americans, even an asian american talking about this very topic in los angeles. and then you also have jay-z in his op-ed here, the criminal

justice system talks oig black people like meek mill. he was convicted on charges related to drug and gun possession, served eight month, placed on probation. served after violating his probation. and then teen charged with misdemeanor assaults following altercation at the st. louis international airport. there is more behind his story, but jay-z really bringing his story to lights. >> and people like jay-z are using their megaphones to bring attention to the dire state of affairs in this country and n. regards to race and the justice system. and it's not just jay-z. you have the creator behind george is the new black, the creator behind blackish. last week's episode of blackish was dead indicated to mass incarceration. rappers are using their lyrics as well and jay-z created a documentary that looked as a young man who spent two years in solitary confinement in rikers

for a crime that he didn't commit, came oufts jat of jail eventually committed suicide because he was so traumatized by what happened to him in prison. and the documentary 13 should be required by every judge and law enforcement person in this country. it is a forensic account of just how black people in particular have been harassed systemically abused by the justice system since slavery. this is modern slavery at its fine heest and it eses esestest profitable and that is the reason prisons are allowed to grow in this way because it makes money for all parties involved. >> and you were in that very documentary that she was talking about and the ecosystem if you will, there is also a profit to be gained from it, also part of policy, that was what the documentary was outlining. >> i think as soon as we learned how to monetize misery and have

people profit off of other people's punishment, we made a huge mistake. the failure rate, 66% of people going back within three years, suddenly became a winning model for wall street. and so now we have a lobby of people who are hugely invested in continuing to lock people up. and for people of color, probation is not a gifts. probation is the gateway drug to prison. almost half the people that go to prison each year is because of parole and probation violations. >> and in this discussion we have again the black identity extremists, that report that came out this week. and we have donald trump hitting out against the three basketball players, the three african-american basketball players basically saying the father of one of them who is saying that the president did not help, and then the president reacting to that saying i should have left them in jail. what do you make of that? >> well, i'm going to go back to the question of what are we trying to achieve with jail. if our objective is public safety, we're failing.

we don't need jail to increase public safety. what we need to be thinking about is how we create systems where people can thrive and have opportunity and for those who do break the law, what is the appropriate treatment. prison isn't the answer. and that has become our default tool is putting people in prison instead of thinking about how do we get people back on the right path to be productive citizens. because these people are really talented and smart and we're missing out on their contributions by warehousing them. >> thousand pounds of sand and in a 100 pound sack. the three of you did it for me. thank you so much. fantastic perspective. we'll be right back.

liberty mutual saved us almost eight hundred dollars when we switched our auto and home insurance. with liberty, we could afford

a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey. oh. that's my robe. is it? you could save seven hundred eighty two dollars when liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance. but on the inside, i feel like chronic, widespread pain. fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. i'm glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. for some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. and improves function. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you.

those who've had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can do more with my family. talk to your doctor today. see if lyrica can help.

that does it for me. the news continues. and a big show ahead for you. >> very big show ahead. and happy thanksgiving. have a fantastic holiday. welcome, i'm yasmin vossoughian. a fund raising good motion. more accusers speaking out and washington wants him to quit. why are people still throwing money at roy moore? plus the british publicist who finagled a meeting at trump tower ready to talk to bob mueller. what does rob goldstone have to say. and is joe biden heading back to the white house? we'll ask his former chief of staff his plans for 2020. let's get started. >> are republicans better off if roy moore wins or if he