tonight -- men behaving badly. washington reacting predictably. will anything change permanently? this is "kasie dc." welcome to kasie dc. i'm kasie hunt. we're live with the latest reporting from washington every sunday from 7:00 to 9:00 eastern. tonight, what will the consequences be for sexual misconduct? will it cost a senate candidate his election and a sitting senator his seat? i talked with kirsten gillibrand

who has tough words for a former president. don siegelman is out of prison. we'll talk about the stunning senate race in his state. plus the drip, drip, drip. jared kushner, michael flynn and just out tonight, a new story on the front wage of "the washington post." they report the special counsel is asking about other foreign contacts and meetings that haven't become public, yet. but first, the pervasive culture of sexual harassment on capitol hill is in sharp focus finally. on tuesday, two congresswomen, one from each party, leveled accusations. >> in fact, there are two members of congress, republican and democrat, right now who serve that have engaged in sexual harassment. >> this member asked a staffer to bring them over some materials to their residence. at that point, he decided to

expose himself. she left, and then she quit her job. >> thursday, leeann tweeden telling her story about senator al franken kissing and groping her against her will. >> it happened so fast. he just mashed his lips against my face and he stuck his tongue in my mouth so fast, and all i could remember is that his lips were really wet and it was slimy. in my mind i called him fish lips the rest of my trip because that's what it reminded me of. i don't know why. tweeden has her own powerful platform but capitol hill interns and staffers don't have that. they're powerless in the face of powerful bosses who have written rules to protect themselves. last july the newspaper roll call surveyed capitol hill staffers and found 40% of women said sexual harassment on the hill is a problem. and 1 in 6 said they've personally experienced it.

so why don't women in politics report harassment? congresswoman jackie speier put it this way. >> anyone can contact the ethics committee and allege that a member has acted inappropriately. >> and kiss their job on capitol hill good-bye. >> senator claire mccaskill faced that choice herself. >> i didn't feel like i could back when i was an intern on capitol hill. i felt like i had to worry more about how i was being perceived in terms of my future career. >> deborah katz is a civil rights attorney who represents staffs or capitol hill. some of whom have reached confidential settlements with members of congress for sexual harassment. she says many women decide not to formally complain about it at all. >> if your professional goals tor work on capitol hill and make that your career, going forward with a sexual harassment claim is not going to be career enhancing. >> you're almost guaranteeing -- you're going to say to somebody, you're almost guaranteed not to

work on capitol hill. >> if you need a recommendation from your member or chief of staff, you're not going to get it. >> making it worse for women, just how quickly their accounts are politicized. in alabama, roy moore is trying to discredit the nine women who av accused him of misconduct, including one who was 14 when she says he molested her by arguing they're politically motivated. and president trump donald trump immediatelied franken as al frank enstein despite not saying anything publicly about those allegations against moore. while democrats have been happy enough to pile on, they ran from cameras on capitol hill on thursday when the franken news broke. >> we politicize this always and it gets to be a question of our team versus their team. but for every republican who has behaved badly there's a democrat who has behaved badly. for every famous man who has behaved badly there's someone we've never heard of. it cuts across every industry and every walk of life.

>> the real casualties are the women involved. over the last week, i have personally spoken to half a dozen women who work on the hill on campaigns nor politics and they have stories of sexual harassment or assault. not a single one has wanted to come forward publicly. they all felt betrayed by their bosses and many i spoke to work in democratic politics and they told me things like, quote, he said i can't be a sexist. i'm a progressive. now it's time for a reckoning on both sides and time for both sides to listen to the women who have accused powerful men of misconduct. here's part of my conversation with senator kirsten gillibrand about al franken. >> clearly one of your colleagues has had significant allegations leveled that he forceibly kissed and groped a woman in 2006. should he resign his seat in the senate? >> i was really disturbed by those allegations and very

personally day pointed. and i think the appropriate thing right now is to have an ethics investigation. >> what could possibly come out of that investigation? it seems as though most of the facts here are pretty clear. >> it's motor to have the ethics investigation to not only establish the facts but to have a process. >> just to -- to find out what? to what end? >> so i think it's important that when we look at these issues of sexual assault, allegations of harassment, that we have to look at these cases individually and that's why we have an ethics investigation. one of the things i'm working on right now is to have a much fuller conversation about this very issue. and the rules in the senate and the house are not where they should be. nobody should be above the law. congress should not play by its own set of rules. one of the things we're trying to do is change, what's the process for anyone that works in congress, whether you are a full-time employer or intern about being able to report these cases of harassment or even

assault in a way that makes sense. so that is why i think the most appropriate step is to move forward to the ethics investigation but have a much bigger conversation of the much bigger problem we have here in congress. >> what do you think is the bar for somebody who have to resign their seat? >> i don't know, kasie. people will make their own judgments. what i do know is sexual harassment, sexual assault is prevalent in society. it's persistent, and it is something that we need to have a better process to deal with because we're failing. we're failing near congress. if you've looked into what the process here, it's opaque. you have to wait for months and do mandatory counseling and mediation before you're even allowed to file your complaint and then you have to sign a nondisclosure airpogreement and never tell anybody. but this conversation we're having is bigger than any one industry. it's not just about congress. it's not just about hollywood. it's not just about the military

or college campuses or wall street. it is a moment of reckoning. >> we're going to have much more of my interview with the senator. first, my panel. leann caldwell, washington correspondent for bbc world news america katty kay and msnbc political analyst ashley parker. thank you for joining me for what i think is a really important conversation. leann, you and i have been working on this together up on capitol hill. what did you make of what senator gillibrand said? clearly the focus has been on al franken. she didn't have an answer for what is the bar for somebody to resign. we haven't heard calls for has resignation yet. what are they waiting for? >> i think they're waiting to see how this falls. if there's more people that come out, more women that come out if there's more women who perhaps worked for senator franken come

out. but i think the bar is -- what i'm hearing from democrats is people have already called for an ethics investigation to happen. that will likely happen and they'll wait and see where that goes before they make any definitive calls that franken should step down. >> what have you heard in your reporting that stands out the most so far? >> there's a couple things. the one thing that stands out to me is how terrified really women still are about naming their harassers. and they don't want to go on the record. barely even on background to even name these people. and a lot of them aren't willing to talk about it without naming these people on the record in a very definitive way. >> in a lot of times, they're not even reporting it. this is the total number of complaints. it's called the office of compliance. we'll dig into that later. they received a total of 49 complaints in 2016. the number of those dealing with harassment was 15. and only 8 of them were people

that were complaining about members of congress in the house or senate. clearly people don't feel like they can come forward in any way. >> i would say those numbers are probably replicated. we've seen similar numbers for the military and the proportions probably the same. the actual number of cases reported is much, much low thaern the number of cases that happen. many of us would know that was the case with people we speak to. the risk on capitol hill is, as jackie speier siaid, you risk losing your job and hurting your party. anywhere where men are in this very powerful position, there's dispropurportionate amount of power makes women vulnerable. when you are young and either want to advance your career, justifiably, why shouldn't you? you are seen as vulnerable. >> how do you think the conversation among women about this issue is different than what we hear in public? i feel like this is something we have been talking about collectively for a really long time and suddenly we're talking

about it on tv and elsewhere. >> sure. so it was -- i was thinking about those numbers and i think all of us here as female reporters who cover men and women in positions of power probably can count on more than one hand the number of anecdotal stories we've heard from friends and colleagues and acquaintances and none of those are reflected in the numbers. in all of these cases coming out, one thing often mentioned is it was an open secret that harvey weinstein behaved like this. an open secret -- >> he joked about it at the oscars. >> everyone on the hill knew you never get into an elevator with this senator or congressman. so i do think there's a common element. the thing we're seeing now, and it does seem to be a bit of a tipping point but there's still a lot under ground is this open secret is coming out into the open and less of a secretive way but there's still a lot more work to be done and women need to feel comfortable going forward. >> this whole issue, whether it's in hollywood or in media, let's hope it gets to

restaurants and hospitals. it's not just industries where men are famous and so can be outed. there's a huge disconnect that's being revealed between what men know about this issue and what men know. we all know what happens. most of the men we speak to don't know this happens because most men are decent guys who would never do this and it doesn't happen to them. so i think men have been really surprised by the degree to which this is pervasive. >> and i was talking to two members of congress last week, women. representative custer and dingell. and both women and they had profoundly different feelings about this moment in time. representative custer was saying, look, this is a watershed moment. things are changing culturally. and representative dingell said, i don't think so. there's nothing to prove yet that women will not be -- that they won't suffer professionally or politically if they come out. and so i think this is a moment where people are starting to talk about it, but will it impact like profound change?

i think we have to wait to see. >> you've seen reckonings like this over the years. do you think this is different? is this something that's actually going to change how it is? >> i've been surprised by the degree to which this has spread. i didn't cover the anita hill hearings. that's the other big moment when there was the women's moment and people thought it might change after that. it didn't. i think the issue will be whether it spreads beyond a few famous people. until it spreads to the people who are really vulnerable and financially dependent on their jobs in industries people don't talk about where nobody knows the name of the bosses, then the culture isn't changed. it needs to go beyond politics, beyond hollywood. we want ta touk again about hillary clinton who was attacking president trump going furth thaeer than she did durin campaign. here she is on wabc radio. >> when someone admits to sexual assault and more than a dozen women come forward with very specific allegations, that's not

locker room talk, and that is certainly more than what we know so far about al franken. so, look, there's a double standard. i get it. the republicans deny, deny, deny, and divert, divert udivert, and they get away with it because the press is more concerned about someone who accepted responsibility than people who will refuse to accept responsibility. >> yesterday the president fired back tweeting, crooked hillary clinton is the worst and biggest loser of all time. she just can't stop, which is so good for the republican party. hillary, get on with your life and give it another try in three years. here's clinton last night during a 25th anniversary celebration of her husband's election to the oval office. >> i'm going to keep speaking out. apparently, you know, my former opponent is obsessed with my speaking out. apparently there was another

somebody told me, tweet today. honestly, between tweeting and golfing, how does he get anything done. i don't understand it. >> hillary clinton sort of injecting herself into this debate. she didn't go so far, really, as to call the president a criminal during the campaign but seemed to there in that radio clip. >> i don't see how this is helpful to women at all. the problem that's been revealed with hillary clinton, with donald trump and down in alabama is the tribalism of this issue. that's not going to help us. if people revert to their political corners and just make this a political slimy match, we'll not change things. >> it does seem like it's the heart of the issue. if it's al franken, liberals are more likely to defend him. if it's roy moore, mick mulvaney was on "meet the press" saying this is just because you have a political bias. >> although i'm curious to know what you two think. i was struck by how quickly

democrats came out against al franken, not necessarily asking for him to step down but within minutes those who could get pinned down -- >> she seemed to defend him more than -- >> in an interesting way, hillary clinton and the white house were actually making the same point but reaching different conclusions. they were both saying al frank admitted it. the white house is saying this is different than president trump, different than roy moore because it's not he said/she said. al franken admitted it and apologized. hillary clinton is saying the same thing. he apologized, good for him. donald trump and roy moore didn't admit it but they did it, is her view. >> and the apology should lead to exoneration? >> or at least some sort of public sympathy or -- >> political forgiveness perhaps. >> like you says, the political tribalism that happens in these issues is evident throughout this thing. but democrats like you talked about how they came out and didn't totally defend al franken right away. how could they?

they've been slamming roy moore, talking about making this a campaign issue for republicans in 2018. so they would look completely h hypocritical, more than politicians usually. >> i have very mixed feelings about the al franken thing. his apology sounded sincere, genuinely regretful. a host of women who have worked for him saying he's a genuine supporter of women. he stuck his tongue in a woman's mouth. that takes some doing. and if the -- if he doesn't step down, what is the message to other people who might want to do that? or what's the message to women? what's the message to us if people are allowed to get away with that. >> the senator bitter case is one that people compare it to. so when he was caught with a prostitute or he -- the senate ethics committee didn't say anything was wrong with it because it happened before he

was a senator. if those same standards are applied to anything like senator franken or roy moore if he wins his election, then that is -- that's very telling on how the senate, the precedent the senate is going to use in the ethics committee as they move forward. so it doesn't naematter if thin happen before you're elected to off the or not. >> another thing that needs to be taken into account is how the women react to these things and feel about them. in al franken's case, this was something that happened awhile ago but clearly stayed with her. she was upset about it. it bothered her in that moment and she came forward. so one of the key things is, it's not that we're sort of now in this place where we're debating the gradations of how awful was this version of sexual harassment or sexism or sexual assault but how did the woman feel about it. and a joke to one woman who feels like it's fun and being part of the boys to another one is an unsafe workplace. and that matters. >> and the reality, too, is

women know the difference quite frankly between sexual harassment when they are harassed n and what is otherwise an innocent interaction. a lot more to come. we'll talk tax return with paul cain. first we talk all things russia. and we'll get to some juicy new reporting from ashley parker. did you know today is international men's day? "kasie dc" is back after this. >> g'day. this year for international men's day, we are celebrating men and boys. i don't want to sound paranoid, but d'ya think our recent online sales success seems a little... strange? na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast." what if... "people" aren't buying these books online, but "they" are buying them to protect their secrets?!?! hi bill.

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so you have a lot of questions about the legitimacy of the election? >> sure. i do. as we learn more about it, we know that the web of connections between people on trump's team and russian representatives just gets more and more dense. >> so you called donald trump putin's puppet famously in a presidential debate. >> from everything i see, putin has no respect for this person. >> well, that's because he'd rather have a puppet as president. >> no puppet. >> do you still think he's putin's puppet? >> i do. i do. i don't know how the president

of the united states, with all of the concerns about the integrity of our elections, could meet with putin just recently and basically say, he told me again he didn't do it. i can't believe that he's so naive. >> that was hillary clinton with ari burman of mother jones. all this week, incremental developments about michael flynn and jared kushner. for that, i want to bring in jonathan swann and intelligence and national security reporter ken dilanian. thank you both for being here. ashley, i want to start with you first. you have a new piece outtonight. front page of the paper tomorrow. what have you learned over the recent days in your reporting? >> we know from people who have spoken to mueller's team that they have asked about, and this is what you expect from mueller's team. but it's happening. they've asked about contacts and meetings not yet public and i

imagine we'll see those continue to drip out. the other thing striking to me because part of our piece tried to capture the mood in the white house's probe is expanding. hope hicks is getting ready to be interviewed and it's getting closer to the president's inner circle. the mood is pretty zen and pretty calm, and they believe ty cobb. he is the lawyer inside the white house handling this. they believe his assurances that this is all anythigoing to wrap. that they've done nothing wrong, that they're going to be fine and they point to the fact this investigation is moving into the president's inner circle. they believe that means it's coming to an end. a lot of experts we talked to said maybe what they need to do is to go to work every day. but this is not wrapping up any time soon. the trial of paul manafort and rick gates. this could go well into 2018. that's just wishful thinking. >> ken dilanian, what's your take on that? is it wishful thinking? >> it is. ashley had a great line in her story. ashley had a wonderful line in

her story from an ally who called it a classic gambino style roll-up. i think that is -- >> that's an ashley parker quote. >> that's a terrific line. and i think it's right and that's why it's not going to be wrapped up by the end of the year. obviously, the russians intervened in the election to hurt hillary clinton and help donald trump. and we know that, you know -- so the -- it's just -- we know that the fundamental question of whether donald trump was aware of the colluded with russian interference. and the only way mueller is going on answer that is to get testimony from people like paul manafort or mike flynn. and we are a long way from that. as ashley reported, paul manafort's facing a trial. that may not happen for some time. he may not decide to cooperate until after the results of that trial. we don't know if mike flynn is facing charges. there's a long way to go. i don't understand the notion

that ty cobb is putting out that this is going to be wrapped up by the end of the year. >> can you distill what's happened this week for jared kushner? you've been doing some reporting on it. it's very convoluted but there seems to be some unhappiness with things he may or may not have provided to committees on the hill? >> that's the micro. but the macro here is that we've learned about another approach by a russian with ties to vladimir putin to the trump campaign. and what we learned was that an e-mail chain reached jared kushner about this guy named alexander torshin. deputy head of the russian central bank. he's been accused of having mafia ties. also a longtime national rifle association member and trying to get a meeting with somebody in the trump orbit at an nra convention. so we know from jared kushner's lawyer that kushner recommended the campaign pass on the meeting. also donald trump jr. ended up at a private dinner with this

man and jump jr.'s lawyer told me yesterday that they met and talked and exchanged pleasantries. now torshin said he dined with donald trump jr. this is a man close to vladimir putin and i know from my sources in the congressional investigating committees that they want to know what that meeting with donald trump was about in 2016, one month before the famous trump tower meeting. >> what's your take on all of this? is ty cobb right in all of this or just trying to keep the president calm? >> he's doing what he needs to do. and ashley's piece perfectly captured it. he has been privately and publicly engaging in happy talk now for, you know, weeks and weeks on end. maybe the happy talk will turn out to be true. but he says something which is just flat out wrong in the statement which he said the doj instruction, the rosenstein instruction was really narrow.

it's just not. it's just not narrow. and look at the indictments. they're not narrow. they're for crimes committed a long time in some cases, before the election. before the campaign. for stuff that really frankly is only tangentially related to russia. so i don't think how you can conclude from these two indictments that this is something really narrow, nothing to worry about here situation. >> what's interesting about that, so some of the stuff really as you point out is tan gential doesn't have to do with the campaign. that's something ty cobb points to. this doesn't have to do with you, mr. president, the white house, the campaign. now other lawyers and people tell us this is how one of these probes work. you start on something smaller and use that to apply pressure and flip them and suddenly it does have to do with the campaign and the white house. >> these investigations rarely end where they begin. if we go down the michael cohn

rabbit hole. where does this end? >> from your reporting on that piece, papadopoulos doesn't seem to be raised as an issue in the piece. is he causing concern in the white house? and there must be concern about the degree to which kushner is raising red flags in congressional investigations, if for something else than he has this tendency to forget how many documents he has. >> for papadopoulos, some were reassured because he was a low level aid. but you had people racking their brains, did i speak to him, ever e-mail with him. and people joking, you know, good day. are you wearing a wiretap? >> are you wired? >> we all are tonight. i have to leave this year. ken dilanian, thank you for your time tonight. coming up -- more of my exclusive interview with senator kirsten gillibrand. how times have changed and the

proper place in history for former president bill clinton. one of her earliest supporters. plus -- >> this is my foot with my electronic shackle which gets cut off tomorrow. >> believe it or not, that foot belongs to a former governor of alabama. he will join us live in our next hour to talk about the senate race there. we are right back after this. ♪ ♪ you nervous? ♪ ♪

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welcome back. the national conversation about sexual harassment driven in no small measure about trump but it has democrats thinking about their history. >> i did not have sexual relations with that woman, miss lewinsky. i never told anybody to lie, not a single time. never. these allegations are false. >> last night the clintons celebrated the 25th anniversary of bill clinton's election as president. dozens of people in democratic politics owe them their careers. perhaps no one more so than

kirsten gillibrand who holds hillary clinton's old senate se seat. this week she offered a candid assessment. i talked to her about the accusations from the clinton's inner circle that she's a hypocrite. >> what is different about the context of congress and politics that makes people so afraid to come out and either name the people that they're talking about or show their faces in public? i've talked to probably a dozen women in politics, even as this movement has become so public and none of them want to go on the record. why do you think that is? >> i think they are afraid. >> why are they more afraid here? >> i think they're afraid everywhere. people in hollywood didn't come forward for years and years and years. people on wall street don't come forward for years and years. a girlfriend just sent me an e-mail that she sent her old boss about all the things he did to her that he never took these claims seriously. this is 20, 30 years later. it's a moment of reckoning.

and what's happening in congress is, i think, young staffers are afraid that their careers will be ruined if they come forward. and so i am calling on my colleagues to rewrite the rules so if you are being harassed in your office, not only can you -- do you know where to go because nobody knows where the office of compliance is. what do you do when you get there? do you have to go through mandatory meediation? that has to change. and if the harasser is the member of congress, they should pay if there's a settlement. it should not be coming out of the taxpayer dime. >> we are in a moment this has changed -- the context has changed over the last 20 years. you told "the new york times" that bill clinton should have resigned over the lewinsky affair. >> my point is that the tolerance that we had 25 years ago, what was allowed 25 years ago, will not be tolerated today. is not allowed today. and that we have to have the kind of oversight and

accountability that society needs so that we can protect people in the workplace. people can function without having an unsafe work environment. whether it's in the -- >> you are saying president clinton created an unsafe work environment? >> no, the conversation we're having today is really important and the behavior tolerated a long time ago would never be tolerated today, and we can't allow it to be tolerated today. that, in fact, all of us needs to recognize -- none of us are above this. and all of us have to be responsible for how we create a workplace in our own office, from my office, how we do our oversight in congress with providing better oversight over the military which is our job. with title nine on college campuses. we have to do our job. we are all responsible. and we all have to understand that time has changed and we have to hold people and elected leaders should not be held to the lowest standard. they should be held to the

highest standard. i focused on trying to change the rules of the game because they're not fair and they're not working. >> if bill clinton were president today and those incidents were unfold -- >> it would have been a very different conversation. we have should a very different consideration about president trump. >> should president trump resign? >> i didn't want him to be president. i thought those things he did -- >> but he is president. he got elected. >> agreed. so we should now have a conversation that that is not okay. and that we should not just ignore him. we should be having a much larger conversation about what we expect of our elected leaders. and the -- that it should never be this lowest common denominator of boys will be boys. that's an outrageous statement to be said. we expect much more and that's why the roy moore debate is so -- the top on everybody's mind. this person wants to be in the sae senate. his behavior is disqualifying, in the same way the president's behavior was disqualifying.

now as a u.s. senator, my job is to protect other people. >> there are some people who have worked for the clintons over the years that are essentially questioning your loyalty. there was a tough tweet that said the senate voted to keep president william jefferson clinton but that's not enough for you? over 20 years you took the clintons' endorsements, money and seat. interesting strategy for 2020 primaries. what do you say back? >> ridiculous and wrong. bill clinton did very important things for this country. but my point is about this conversation we're having today and that we need to have the highest standards for elected leaders and change what's happening throughout society. and we have to allow people to tell their stories. that is what this is all about. and that is why the "me, too," campaign is as powerful as it is. >> why do you think voters are willing to forgive politicians some of these sins. they forgive bill clinton and some are going to see if they're going to forgive roy moore and

send him to the united states senate. >> everybody makes their own judgments. it's up to the voters. what our job is to provide a safe space for people to tell their stories. that's why the me, too, campaign is so pure fowerful. in the military context, i want to take the decision making out of the chain of command because commanders aren't trained. number two may be biased and have been failing at this for a very long time. we've had zero tolerance since dick cheney was secretary of defense and last year alone 15,000 cases of sexual assault, rape and unwanted sexual contact. of the 6,000 people who reported, 59% were retaliated against for reporting. it's a problem. and so you need to change how it's done and professionalize the system and you need the decision to be made, somebody who is not biased, who is trained. i want to give it to trained military prosecutors. >> one final question. on the question of the clintons. you said you'll take donations

from senator franken that you've received and give them to charity. do you think you should do the same with the donations you've received from the clintons over the years or is that a different situation? >> well, i admire hillary clinton. she is one of my greatest role models. she is somebody i campaigned very hard who i wish was president today. i think she's inspired women and girls all across the world. and i will continue to work with her in every capacity that i can. >> so -- it sounds like, no, you won't be giving back that money from the clintons? >> i think hillary clinton is an extraordinary leader who has literally fought for women and girls and cares deeply about everything we talked about today. >> so to be clear, while bill clinton has appeared at fund-raisers for gillibrand and did receive $11,500 from hillary clinton's pac during her congressional races, she hasn't received any direct donations from bill clinton. we'll talk much more about this story in our next hour. still to come -- tax reforms, historic moment.

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well, mr. chairman -- >> that's not true. >> i get sick and tired of the -- >> regular order, mr. chairman -- >> regular order. order. >> we do a -- >> regular order. >> and over and over again. >> wait just a -- >> how many times do we do this before -- >> listen. i have honored you by allowing you to spout off here.

and what you said was not right. that's all i'm saying. i come from the lower middle class originally. we didn't have anything. so don't spew that stuff on me. i get a little tired of that crap. >> some fire from orrin hatch. tax reform has passed the house but the senate is far from assured. i want to bring in "washington post" reporter paul cain. thank you for coming on tonight. there's a big eagles game coming up so we appreciate you carving out a few minutes. >> fly, eagles, fly. >> talk to us a little about the president tweeted senate senator jeff flaky unelectable in arizona caught on mike saying things about your favorite president. >> we have all been expecting flake to be very much in the lean yes category and there are five or six other republicans they're more worried about before you get to jeff flake. susan collins, lisa murkowski,

mccain, bob corker. those four in particular. if jeff flake is going to be a no, this bill doesn't have a chance to pass. but i don't think that's really going to -- i still think he is probably going to be a yes. and i think what we're going to see is how this plays out over the next week. how the sort of public defines this bill. how they receive it. and then we'll see what they -- when they get back from thanksgiving what they have in them. >> what the climate is. >> "the new york times" looking at ron johnson and said there was a phone call from paul ryan saying, hey, what do you need? what is johnson's problem with this bill? he's the senator from wisconsin. >> my friend at "the new york times" wrote a really good interesting story that chased through all of johnson's demands. he thinks the multy national corporations are getting long-term permanent benefits out of this bill that small companies like the manufacturing company that he has in wisconsin aren't getting.

so they need to work with him. he has done this before. >> i was going say -- >> we faced this throughout health care in july and he ended up being a yes. they have a pot of money of about $80 billion left inside what they can do on this tax cut bill without breaking the rules of the really, really technical rules of the u.s. senate, and they can probably do some modifications to help ron john out to possibly get him to a yes. >> a pot of money they can work with. what is your sense of where this debate stands right now. is the strategy that paul ryan employed in the house which was go ahead. make my day. vote down this thing that is going to ensure all of you can get re-elected or is this going to be a really difficult threading of the needle that can go the wrong way. >> there's always the unexpected. i don't think people were expecting ron john to come out the way he did. but in saying that, i have been shocked about how well it's been

going. and so have people in the white house and the business community. we are -- it is very foreseeable they get this to conference and get something through by the end of the year. obviously disputes about how do you pay for this stuff. questioo you pay for. there are a whole lot of areas where it could fall off the rails. but the house is staring at a loss of a majority next year. the political pressure is so extreme. i think it's heading toward ramming something through. >> there's been little objection to the deficit side of this. you go back to the republican convention six years ago, deficit reduction was not just an economic theory but a test of your patriotism. that's completely gone. and it has nothing to do with deficit spending or pay-fors. when they get into the senate, if you have to deal with each individual senator's objections

that's why tax reform is so hard. >> at the end of the day, do you think this is pas tpasses the s? >> it has a much better chance than health care because they all want to cut taxes. >> and the difference is they did not want to vote for that health care bill. >> exactly. >> paul cain, thank you very much for taking the time tonight. >> go eagles. >> fly eagles, fly. >> coming up, the military makes serious head way in the against isis blue at a serious cost. ♪

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what was your ac/dc? >> one over the top. long way to the top was one, and a whole lot of rosie. i grew up ac/dc, all that classic rock. >> when i was elected the first time, we went on the stage, we had this big, giant sign. and when i came out, my kids were playing tnt. ac/dc's tnt. they were little. they were, i don't know, 10 and 12 years old. so they didn't play all by themselves. they had backup.

i'm sure ac/dc's still going to sue us over this, but we had them playing in the background and my kids playing, but it was pretty cool. >> it seems like every congress member has a favorite ac/dc song. over the weekend, malcolm long passed away. his brother angus told "rolling stone", his brother had been the driving force behind the band. he'd look at me in times of crisis and say let's go in and do some work. he had that drive and i felt ok obligated to keep it going, malcolm young was 64 years old. when we come back, we'll go live to alabama. one of the scandals you may not have heard about, the head of the democratic party in florida now forced to resign.

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from hollywood, to the media, and now the halls of congress. sexual harassment is front and center as a political issue. >> accusations against alabama republican senate roy moore. >> now claims against al franken. >> charges that he made unwanted advances towards model leanne tweeden. >> the picture is this one.

>> the question now is will all this talk bring real change? s >> i think the problem is we politicize this always. >> i think the importance is that this not be politicized. >> al is a very popular senator. >> it has to be determined if there is a pattern of sexual harassment. >> president trump who has had very little to say about the judge roy moore case but when it comes to al franken and that picture, he weighed in on that. >> the people of alabama to make the decision for their state. >> and you hope that the voters of alabama choose not to elect him. >> corporate tax cuts are permanent if the individual tax cuts are temporary. >> of course congress is going to vote down the road to keep these cuts. >> when you just say of course, they're going to extend it from 2025, you don't know that. >> i don't know that. >> finally, i have to ask you about something that has got and lot of attention this week. what were you thinking? >> i didn't realize that the pictures were public.

>> whoops. welcome back to kasie d.c. i want to welcome in paul singer, jonathan swan, former rnc executive director and gop strategy and principle, kevin glauflirn and ashley parker. thank you all for being here tonight. let's start with, we were all sort of watching mark short say over and over and over again, the voters of alabama will decide. kevin, i have to ask you this, first, because you used to be in charge of electing republicans to the senate. and probably everybody you have worked with has basically said, we don't want anything to do with this guy. >> absolutely. >> but at this point, what is there to be done? >> i don't think there's much to be done. but president trump won alabama by 28 points, and here we are neck and neck. it's a neck and neck race, the

democrat might win in alabama. if you had told me that a month ago, i would have said you're crazy. i think the damage is done. i don't see it getting better for roy moore. >> have republicans concluded that there's nothing else to be done here? there's no way to force him off the ballot? they were talking about a different kind of election, resignation, yada, yada. >> there was this burst of momentum and a real desire to get this convoluted process of getting lute irstrange getting luther strange to step down and the governor to put the election until next year. and it ended with we're stuck with this guy. i saw that polling. i don't know if i believe it, frankly. >> you don't believe it. >> no, i don't know if i do. this is another example of, you know, a state where you're talking to people about a guy who's been accused of pedophilia. i'm not sure if people are responding to polls necessarily

100% of the time going to admit that they're probably going to turn up and vote for an accused pedophiler. i think that's an interesting polling question. >> you're laughing. yeah, i mean it seems to me, it is a lot of new information to process in some ways. we're inching closer to this election for this open seat. doug jones hit his opponent roy moore who is surrounded by controversy after multiple women have come forward with claims that in his 30s he harassed and assaulted them while they were in their teens. >> this race, there could be not greater contrast, and this was long before things started unraveling last week. the differences between me and roy moore could not be greater. and that's because i am not someone who wants to divide this state. i am someone who wants to unify this state. [ applause ]

>> and here's republican governor kay ivy on friday. >> do you believe any of the women who have brought accusations against roy moore? >> i certainly have no reason to disbelieve any of them. we need to have a republican in the united states senate to vote on things like supreme court justice, other appointments that the senate has to confirm and make major decision. that's what i plan to do is vote for the republican nominee, roy moore. >> in a new piece in the "new york times," several people in gadsden, alabama say they're not at all surprised by the allegations against him. somebody saying, quote, it was a known fact roy moore liked young girls said a retired police officer. it was treated like a joke. that's just the way it was. and according to a local store manager at the local mall, the mall guard asked him to let security know whenever he saw

mr. moore there. quote, i can't believe there's such an outcry now about something that everybody knew. moore declined to comment. joining us now from montgomery, alabama, vaughn hilliard, who has been tireless in covering this story. it's great to see you. >> reporter: hey, kasie. let's get down to the facts here in montgomery. >> no, go ahead. i'm told you have new reporting to share with us tonight. >> reporter: well, the young republicans of alabama, kasie voted this weekend we're just learning, to pull their support from roy moore, they said unless he's able to provide a clear and convincing answer as to these allegations that have come forward. they're asking him to step aside. these are the young republicans, executive committee here in alabama. it's part of that conversation, you heard from kay ivy the governor here, but from mo brooks who said, who gave a similar response to the governor

when he was asked about his support, saying it's more about the republican agenda at this point. this is what he said over in huntsville on saturday morning. >> all these personal accusations that are out there, a little bit on the humorous side. just remember, he was a democrat back then. there are much bigger issues facing our country. supreme court justices, deficit and debt issues. border security. we need to make sure that we keep the big picture. in our minds as we vote on december 12th. >> reporter: kasie, as we head into tomorrow into this week, these are the questions that are going to continue to be posed. tomorrow morning on the "today" show, the original 14 year old named in that article will be interviewed. it is jeff flake who is over the past year put forward, in order to advance the republican agenda, do we sign onto

individuals like donald trump or roy moore. and he said the other day, jeff flake said that he'd rare vothee for a democrat than roy moore. do you have individuals like the young republicans or governor kay ivy and mo brooks to pull enough support to defeat doug jones. >> vaughn hilliard in montgomery, alabama. i want to ask you about this. the polling afterward in 2016, we learned that there were women who were willing to support president trump despite all the allegations against him. is this different enough, have times changed enough? is the fact that this is roy moore is not donald trump going to matter? >> sure, so i agree with john that polling you can't necessarily totally trust it, and i'm always a little skeptical when i see someone neck and neck in a deep red

state like that. but there is nothing analogous to donald trump. donald trump is donald trump. he is the only person who has so consistently refuted the laws of political gravity. roy moore may be able to do it potentially, but one thing that was striking to me was there was an editorial in a local paper down there, and i don't kid myself that any voters go to the polls based on what a newspaper tells them to do. but that meets the point, they just said these allegations on women in and of themselves should be disqualified, but it went well beyond that, right? it said if you are voting for roy moore you are saying not just this message to victims of sexual abuse, but this is how we should treatment muslims and catholics and gay people. and they said don't listen to the national party, because the national republicans have abandoned him. but they said we are the people of alabama. this is what we should stand for. so i do think you have seen this

making it a bigger issue. >> that editorial was interesting. it was the fact that they went to those other issues i thought was the mistake. if you are saying what the newspaper wants to say, what think want to say is never mind the issues, it's we can't accept this kind of behavior. this is the horrible thing. whatever the issues are, maybe we disagree on abortion or the muslims. we're not going to talk about that. what we really want to talk about if i'm the editorial writer, we can't have a pedophile in the u.s. senate, but they turned to the issue, the muslims or gays, we don't want to say those people are not welcome in alabama, but some people in alabama obviously do. >> you know, they've known about this for a long time. and roy moore's already won state-wide elections there. >> the issues are not new. >> the editorial made the point

about the faustian view, you might be getting someone who wields more clout in the senate with a two-vote margin, he would be there with that bucket of money trying to get what he wants for alabama. >> hold that thought. joining me now is the last democrat to hold state-wide office as governor in alabama. don segallman. thank you for taking the time to join us, we enjoyed the video you shared with us of your ankle bracelet. what is your view here of what the people of alabama can accept in this race? >> i think we can expect two things to emerge as a result of the revelation and the good reporting about the sexual misconduct, the sexual crimes that, you know, if everything from bill cosby to al franken.

i think we're going to see women rise up and take their fair share of power in this country. also believe that men are getting the message. i think that we will see a paradigm shift. i think we'll see a change in attitude. i think we will begin to seme mn value women for their interlibertariintellect instead of other physical attributes. i think we're going to see both political parties to make an effort to recruit women to run from everything from city council to congress in 2018. with that will come the election of more women. and with that, i think we'll continue to see this attitude of, that is obviously pervasive begin to change. so i think there's some good things that are going to come of this. what's going to happen in this alabama election is really

anybody's guess. and the reason for that, despite all of the negative publicity that roy moore has received, you have to keep in mind that, i'd keep go miin mind anyway from a academic standpoint, that donald trump got 1,318,0000 votes. >> have you been surprised by the evangelicals' support? >> i think there are two things here. you're seeing some of judge moore's support erode, but i think you're also seeing some of

it solidify and intensify. i don't think that it's necessarily going to grow, but i do think he is going to turn out his fair share of votes. now let me say this. i think every democrat alive and many who are not are going to try to make it to the polls on election day. so they are, they are fired up. and democrats are active in every part of the state. if there's a chance to win a seat, it's probably in this election. >> this is the last best chance for a democratic senator in alabama. thank you for your time tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> let's break this down. just a little bit. it looks like democrats are going to ultimately probably outspend roy moore for the final weeks of this race, but i do wonder about that dynamic. roy moore has shifted in

strategy in the past couple days, having his wife speak, with women behind her digging in saying don't believe this, believe me. >> and read the line from the president of the united states. this comes from the top. the white house said the difference between the franken charges and the roy moore charges is that al franken admitted and roy moore didn't. in other words, if you don't admit it, it didn't happen, and they can't hold it against you, and that's basically what the supporters are saying is well as long as he has never admitted it, we're just going to stand with him. >> do you think this man becomes a senator at the end of the day? >> i think he does. he'll win an election. i'm sorry. >> that's okay. >> i think he'll win on december 12th. the special elections are always special. they're always goofy, but this is alabama. so i'm going to leave it at that. one thing, too, in changing his strategy, one woman, okay, maybe it's a witch hunt and a partisan

witch hunt. thay there are eight women who have come forward. this guy worked out at the ymca with no shirt on and no one stopped that. this is the weirdest story i've heard of. it's officially bizarro world. i have no idea what to tell you. >> thank you. while we're on the topic of sexual harassment in congress, i want to turn to that. it's a conversation we've been having this week. the house and senate approved mandatory sexual harassment prevention training for all congress men and staffers, but many say this does not go far enough, jgee, and pointed to a problem in staffing. i'm going to walk you through this process. it's very convoluted. if you are a victim, you have 180 days to bring a complaint to

the office of compliance. this assumes that you are aware it exists. only one in ten women staffers only know it's there. once the complaint is processed, you have to go through up to 30 days of mandatory counseling and then 30 days to decide when you want to go to mediation. if you don't want to go to mediation you're out of options. if you do go forward, the law says you are bound by confidentiality. you continue to go to work. and there's no investigation or attempt to change the workplace environment. so you may be sighieeing this pn every day at work. when mediation gets involved, a lawyer representing the congressman's office gets involved. they are paid with taxpayer money. you, the victim, may or may not have a lawyer in this phase. if you don't reach a settlement with this person, there's a mandatory 30 day cooling-off period before a victim can file a lawsuit or request a hearing.

you have to wait a month of about you can take anyone to court. that's right. if a settlement is reached, you typically have to sign a non-disclosure agreement. this prevents from you reporting the act to any ethicscommitees, you can't talk to your therapist or your family or your friends. and it is paid for with tax ppar money. if you are someone who works on capitol hill, you are a victim of harassment or sexual abuse. taxpayers pay the lawyers that fight your claim. and then if you settle with that member, tax payers pay that settlement and then you are not allowed to speak publicly about it, is that right? >> you got it right. >> who wrote the rules? you guessed it. congress. so let's talk about this. paul singer, you are something

of an expert in these arcane workings of the various ethics committees and ways and means in which congress people can be held accountable. our researchers have called, they won't even turn some of this information over to members of congress. so what needs to change here? >> keep in mind, this is progress. the office of compliance was created in 1995. >> the creation of the office was progress. >> until that time, there were no workplace protections, none. this was an innovation, let's create this office that will be able to enforce workplace standards in congress. congress write the laws and exempt themselves, so now you have a situation where you have a process in place. there's a lot of data floating around about the $15 million taxpayers have paid on settlements, but this office covers not just sexual harassment but other workforce complaints, disability complaints. there's a whole series of

workplace prixes f workplace protections that this office manages, and you're right it all comes out of the taxpayer fund. how you get at that is a challenge, because congress doesn't want to be treated like a regular company. they don't function like a rig compa -- regular company. they function like a hundr500 companies. >> is that something that has had teeth in the past? >> they have reported zero punishments against any senator, they have written six memos to congress people saying you should not have done this. this is the larry craig memo. he was busted for conduct in an

airport. but what the ethics committee said was you shouldn't have pulled ot yo pulled out your business card and said i'm a senator, you can't arrest me, and that is what he did. that's the punishment. you shouldn't have done it. he said he was going to resign. but they let him stay in congress until the imd end of h term, another year later, and that was that. >> still to come, we'rary going to take a look at the big news driving the day. and rethinking the controversial way democrats hold their primaries, i have scar tissue from covering that. you are watching kasie d.c. >> thursday is thanksgiving. and there is so much to be thankful for this year unless you're a human woman. for my constipation,

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earlier this week, senator jeff flake made a classic washington mistake. he told the truth. here he is in a clip that aired on "good morning, america," caught on an open mic. >> become the party of roy moore and donald trump. we are toast. you're the guy that could -- >> think how much fun this could

be. >> and to point out what an idiot this guy is. anyway. >> i'm going to take the liberty of saying most people don't find it that much fun. he quoted no news here. trump just responded to flake's comment on twitter, saying quote, senator jeff flaky who is unelectable in the great state of arizona was caught on mic saying bad things about your favorite president. he'll be a no on tax cuts because his political career anyway is toast. and christian conservatives were told, those two sides of the party, both of them are a unpersuasives to moms and dads in iowa and nebraska who are thinking about what kind of country they want to give their kids in ten to 20 years.

do you think this is the kind of thing that will get republican voters excited in iowa? >> what has he ever won? can anyone ever tell me what he's won? he's 0 for life. and everybody's saying's going he's going to be this player. >> i think trump would be happy enough to give steve bannon as happy as he is to give anybody else credit. even since he's left the white house, bannon's saying what a great guy he is. >> it would be sad that paul manafort or steve bannon won that ra that race for him. he says, whoa, whoa, whoa, i ran that race. >> he came on quite late. so i think he's reluctant to

give credit to anyone other than himself >> trump, someone made sure that trump was aware of the joshua green book. some people consider glorify bannon as the architect of a lot of this stuff. trump went into a complete, this is a joke, who is this guy? no one knows him. he came this late. so -- >> indeed. every night, jonathan swan previews the week ahead in washington with his axio newsletter. what do you have? >> one story that's interesting, we're going to be talking about tax reform and a spending bill, but there's this big sleeper story that is happening and not getting a lot of attention. next week when congress returns after thanksgiving, mcconnell will likely confirm his ninth federal judge so far this year.

>> these are lifetime appointments. >> this is a lifetime appointment. this is going to have a much bigger impact on the future of this country than any of this spending bill discussion. you look at this year, the first thing the president tried to do was his travel ban. it wasn't congress that stopped that, it was federal judges. we can't fathom the effect that these young, very conservative judges will have on the future of the country, it's a really big story. >> there's another thing in your newsletter that i thought was interesting. >> really. >> yeah, great. it was good. the rise of bob lighthizer on trade. and i heard the same thing jonathan heard, which is in all of these meetings, this guy is ask askin dent. he'd say, bob, go. tell them why this trade imbalance is so bad.

tell them how we're going to be tough. normally you see the president' leader level being forosty, her the president is very close to leaders, but you have light hawa heiser and the staff. that's coming out of the bannon wing as well. >> check it out. up next, will democrats actually change the way they run their primaries? kasie d.c. back after this. sometimes a cough gets in the way of a good night's sleep.

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in the state of washington, we won that caucus with almost 73% of this vote, but at this point, secretary clinton has 10 super delegates from the state of washington. we have zero. and what is even more unbelievable is that over 400 of these super delegates indicated their support for secretary clinton before anyone else was

in the race, before the first ballot was cast. in other words, the establishment determined who the anointed candidate will be before the first voters got into the process. >> oh, man, i'm having some serious flashbacks here. we're talking about this, because tim kaine has written a letter saying we should dispense with these super delegates. this was a huge point of contention. >> watching bernie sanders, it takes you straight back to the campaign, and then tim kaine weighing in on the super delegates a year later, almost on the anniversary of the election has a certain, i'm sure bernie sanders is enjoying the ira iron eye irony of that. they want the super delegates to

go. and they have a fair point. it's basically an undemocratic system. >> it's another, we have this decision point of whether they go into corporatist, centrist direction or a populace direction. this is one of the tools of the establishment. >> in theory, protects them from candidates like donald trump i suppose. >> or bernie sanders. >> or bernie sanders. >> also, when you have all this distrust in institutions, especially government, i think it gives voters good reason and plausible reason to point and say the system is rigged. and that's not good for the system. >> and bernie would have won. that's the other thing. >> he lost by 4 million votes. we're always reminded by my twitter followers. don't worry, i know that. coming up, this is on a serious note, the uncounted. it's the story you may not have heard about in the war against isis. tens of thousands of airstrikes and the staggering number of

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eatin' good in the neighborhood. so by most accounts, the war against isis has been a success. isis-controlled territories in iraq and syria have shrunk --

considerably over the last two years. the pentagon say this is a war with accuracy that's unprecedented. but something that's underreported are the record number of civilian casualties. they spent 18 months working on this. one in five coalition strikes resulted in civilian death, which is a staggering 31 times higher than the rate of deaths that is actually reported by the coalition. for more on this reporting, i want to bring in one of the co-authors on this report, azma khan, and general barry mccaffrey. thank you both for being here tonight to talk about this. i want to go to you first. can you walk us through how the reporting on this unfolded. >> i mean this is clearly something, we know you have spent 18 months working on it.

but how did you go about figuring all this out and gathering the information? >> it's a great question. we knew for a long time while there were these tens of thousands of airstrikes happening there was very little information coming from the ground. part of that was from isis which had a monopoly on information and cell phones, and we were getting very little from the ground. and the goal we had was to do a systematic analysis and look at those airstrikes that successfully hit isis as well as those that hit civilians. we looked at areas in mosul and around it. what we found by excavating the rubble, finding any presence of isis, figuring out whether there was a legitimate target nearby, interviews hundreds of survivors, witnesses and civilians and taking these

allegation to local officials is that one in five of the coalition airstrikes was resulting in civilian death. we proevided it to the coalitio and the air force where it conducts this air campaign from qatar, and we asked them to analyze which of these were their own. and what we found was that in some cases they were unable to actually determine some of their own airstrikes. so we were told, this was unlikely to be us, this is unlikely to be the coalition. the nearest airstrike was 600 meters away, but then we would find videos that the coalition uploaded itself showing that they had carried out those airstrikes in question. >> one of the things that stood out to me is this idea that the military has tried to be more transparent in the way it approaches this. have we seen it in previous american wars, an attempt to try

and document and put this out? i mean, is it a pr effort where the military is trying to say, look how many times we bombed isis and getting it wrong on this other front? what's the context? >> well, i just raead the artice earlier today. it's very well written, it's in retrospective, obviously, trying to look back and see what happened. a couple thoughts, kasie. the most important thought is the real tragedy of war is the civilian population caught up in it. they end up getting bombed, displaced from their homes, the health care system breaks down. so it's an endless nightmare for the civilians. millions of refugees in iraq and syria now from the fighting. it's also true that the employment of precision firepower is unlike anything in history. when you look at germany world war ii, japan world war ii,

where we devastated cities and killed 100,000 civilians in a night as collateral damage you see the change, where now this report suggesting one out of five resulted in civilian deaths, so i wouldn't, i wouldn't question their work, but i would remind people, 1 million people lived in mosul, thousands of isis fighters. the iraqi army got in there and fought street by street and blew most of the city down and eventually liberated the survivors. >> one of the very important reasons that needs to be recognized when we talk about why so many civilians died in mosul is the denial of an exit corridor for isis fighters. that is where they denied where local troops on the ground didn't. one of the major reasons individuals were dieing in this war was because there were no exit corridor. civilians repeatedly told us

they were trapped in these areas with fighters. i want to talk about the difference in precision weaponry. precision weaponry is a wonderful, technological advance, but if you have the intelligence wrong, and we found that in the airstrikes that we found, about half of them were the result of poor or outdated intelligence. and when you have poor or outdated intelligence, you can hit the right target that you want to hit and still get it wrong. >> azhmat khan, thank you for being with us. we'll be back right after this. l for every social occasion. so the the broom said, "sorry i'm late. i over-swept." [ laughter ] yes, even the awkward among us deserve some laughter. and while it's okay to nibble in public, a lady only dines in private.

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will be american energy. if you execute an unlawful order, you will go to jail. you could go to jail for the rest of your life. it applies to nuclear weapons, to small arms. mr. president sh it's illegal. guess what he is going to do. he would say what would be legal. >> that was air force general john heighten saying he would resist president trump if he ordered an illegal launch of

nuclear weapons. his remarks come as the u.s. navy battles readiness to its fleet. a japanese tugboat collided with a u.s. missile destroyer. the tugboat lost control and drifted into the u.s. warship causing damage to its sides. no injuries reports on either vessel. this incident is just the latest string of marine mishaps involving u.s. warships. let's bring back general barry mccaffrey for this week's under covered. talking about america's readiness for war. general, we have what's happened here with the navy. there was some news this week that the army issued new guidelines around mental health, saying that people who had these issues could potentially join the army. that was quickly rescinded after john mccain got very upset about it. is our country prepared for war right now? >> look, casey, you know,

there's always issues. there's 2.1 million men and women in the armed forces. it's a dominant military force. it's well trained. it has been at war for 15 years. the army is recruiting by the way is -- did not change standards. they returned waiver authority to recruiting command as the other services have it. there's no change in standards. normally, they waiver around 2% of people. a lot of it pot use to get people who are otherwise qualified in the army. we do have problems. one of which is sequestration and continuing resolution of our money coming out of congress. last year, eight months into the fiscal year, we finally got the budget. the readiness and the training and the maintenance of the fleet and the aircraft in particular are a huge problem. the reason is the funding flow

iss erratic and not logical. >> general, i wanted to ask you a question about the iraq story. obviously, in every war there are civilian casualties, particularly in the middle east, the risk is people feel their family has been unfairly target order killed might turn against the united states from having been moderate. why is the u.s. so reluctant as in the case of iraqi civilian casualties to come up with a program of compensation? >> i don't think we have been at all. i think the targeting of isis fighters, al qaeda fighters, the taliban in afghanistan, there's an elaborate process that's ruled on by lawyers, the author of that article said if the intelligence is wrong, the bomb will hit the wrong target. obviously, there's challenges. if you are fighting in a major metropolitan area like mosul, it's a tragic outcome for the

civilian population. they were held in the city against their wishes by isis. not by the iraqi army. again, no question errors have been made. the first time in the history of warfare that we have this degree of scrutiny on minimizing civilian losses. >> general, thanks very much for your time tonight. >> good to be with you. when we come back, what to watch for in the week ahead. d. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends, three jobs... you're like nothing can replace brad. then liberty mutual calls... and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement™, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back,

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we're back with final thoughts from our panel on what to watch in the week ahead. what are you looking for? >> the president heads to mar-a-lago, which means twitter. often when he is left to his own devices without the riggers of the white house, there's a lot of tweets. set your alarm clocks early and often. >> jonathan? >> i'm watching to see some major outlets dedicating serious journalistic resources to capitol hill, sexual harassment. i think that's going to be some revelations coming. no names being named yet publically. i have had several sources call me and tell me that there's a few reporters who are advanced on this story. i think we think that december will be tax reform and spending. we could see people's careers ending in december. i really think so.

>> mine is -- you may have to k correct me on this. i see the turkeys have arrived. i'm interested to see how the president will handle this ritual, which always getting some laughs. what are you watching this week? >> some discussion about whether to send a big name democratic surrogate down to alabama. most of them are considered far too liberal and wouldn't go down well in that state, including barack obama. one name i heard as a possibility would be michelle. send her down on a sunday to perhaps one of the suburbs to a church in birmingham. that's a possibility. >> i have been wondering if she's not the person who ends up stepping into this void democrats have. i take your point. there are not very much people they have that they can send out. thank you all for joining me tonight. this does it for tonight. i will be back in two weeks. i want to leave you with this good night from washington.

♪ ♪ every night i turn the tv on and cry ♪ ♪ i cry, i cry ♪ i say why, i feel like we're all gonna die ♪ we never had an american president take office with so many live business interests. not to mention business interests that he didn't extract himself from before taking the oath of office. president trump kept his business interests for the most part. he did pass day to day control of his real estate companies to his sons. then his daughter and son-in-law joined the administration with high level positions. all this has created a historically