right now. the dow down 50 points. this comes after the federal reserve meeting showed notes that said they are worried about market prices getting out of hand and they may increase rates in december. sort of expected. i'm going to see you back here tomorrow. ruhle is going to do 11:00 a.m. herself and i'll be back at noon and then again at 2:00 p.m. eastern time tomorrow. i'll see you then. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington. i'm kasie hunt in for nicolle wallace on this wednesday. thanksgiving week. hopefully the beginning of a little vacation for most of you as you leave behind the hustle and bustle and start gearing up for the holidays. but down at the winter white house, his mar-a-lago resort in southern florida, president trump isn't taking it easy. he's spending the day having meetings and working the phones. or so he tweeted this morning. his press office scrambled today to make sure we knew it was not

going to be a low-key day for the president. that they had once promised. but rather a workday with a full schedule. less than an hour after his team corrected the record he arrived at his golf club. maybe he needs a break from the controversy he stirred yesterday when he all but endorsed roy moore. the alabama senate candidate accused mu ed of molesting teen. >> is an accused child molester better than a democrat? is an -- >> well, he denies it. look, he denies it. if you look at what is really going on and you look at all the things that have happened over the last 48 hours, he totally denies it. he says it didn't happen, and, you know, you have to listen to him also. >> his public support came after a week of silence on the scandal that has led most republican senators to disavow roy moore. politico reports trump has

privately doubted the nine women who have accused moore of misconduct. seeing parallels between moore's situation and his own. let's goat our reporters and guests for the hour. bill crystal, the founder and editor of the weekly standard. ashley. doug thornle and msnbc contributor charlie sikes. thank you all for being here this afternoon. i hardly know where to start on this story. but ashley, i want to start with you. can you walk through based on your reporting the shift here and how the president came to these public comments? when you were in asia with the president, that -- we had heard he was going to say something when he got back. then kellyanne conway seemed to allude he wouldn't and then yesterday. how did that all unfold? >> a number of ways. you mentioned kellyanne conway. she want fox & friends on monday and road tested this.

she didn't so much support roy moore as she argued against doug jones and said we can't have a liberal in the senate seat. that was intensional. he went and talked to the president and said i think this is the most effective strategy. he said go for it. he then started -- he thought it went well so he started echoing that talking point behind closed doors. white house aides didn't know he was going to stop at marine one on his way to mar-a-lago. they never know but they weren't surprised when he said what he said because he'd been talking about that privately and it resonated with him. >> bill crystal, what are republicans supposed to do with this? >> i think the damage is already there but if the president and it's not like president trump is a moral authority to some of us. but i suppose shouldn't be surprised donald trump finds nothing so horrible in what roy

moore has done. it probably increases the chances that moore wins in alabama, so i'd still bet against him and the questions were about the republicans in the senate. mostly distance themselves from moore. they don't support moore. i think that -- to me, the question i'd want to ask every republican senator on the record when they get back from thanksgiving, do you think moore should be in the senate? i was in the george h.w. bush white house. david duke was the nominee in louisiana. he said he was a republican. a corrupt democrat, edwin edwards and president bush came out and said edwards is not a good guy but we cannot have david duke as the governor of louisiana, and i'm the president of the united states and head of the republican party and i'm urging them not to vote for in effect a republican candidate. will any republican senator have the nerve to say i distance myself from roy moore but you

people, knhon banyone in alabam only don't vote for roy moore but vote for doug jones. >> there is one republican in the senate who has said this, jeff flake. it's better to vote for a democrat than roy moore considering what we know about him. what's your sense of where the republican party goes on this? it's pretty clear constitutionally they can't refuse to seat roy moore. they could, in theory, effect him. is there any circumstance under which a republican senate rejects a candidate that's got the support of the candidate? >> i would say no at this point but critical earlier today, i think the best tweet of the day. wouldn't it be great if the president was as tough on child molestation as he was on shoplifting. this is a worst case scenario for the republican party. i want to slightly disagree with bill on this. i think that roy moore is likely -- more likely than not to be elected which really then

creates this crisis of conscience for the republicans in the senate. many of whom have suggested he's unfit to serve. but would they be able to muster the political courage to expel somebody that had just been elected or are they just bluffing? and i do think that the real danger here is this is going to consume a lot of political oxygen in the first quarter of the year going into the midterm elections and how will they be able to wipe the stink of, you know, basically sitting next to a -- an accused pedophile in the united states senate who has the "r" after his name. >> and with significant ramifications for the 2018 midterm elections. >> absolutely. >> let me ask you about the democrat in this race. i'm not sure exactly what the consensus of the table is of whether roy moore is going to win or not. if there was ever a chance for a democrat to win an alabama senate seat it's doug jones. how do you evaluate him? is he a good candidate? does he fit the electorate?

is he doing enough to distance himself from washington? what's your sort of report card? >> i think he's a good candidate. trying the men who murdered african-american girls in a church bombing. he has played it relatively safe on typical social issues that might be divisive in alabama. it is still an uphill climb, though. i talked to very high ranking senior democratic senator and he thought it was still a stretch but it was possible. but at the end of the day, this is politically, i think, a win-win situation for dems. the national party for the senate democrats are not spending money there right now. so if roy moore wins, then republicans have to answer for this guy for a long time. if he loses, then there's a senate -- there's a democrat in that senate seat. so i think for democrats, they see this as a win-win. >> and how important is the

abortion issue? is that, at the end of the day, the thing that carries the day for roy moore because that's the issue voters can't get over in voting for doug jones? >> i have a lot of respect for jones holding that position in that state. but you know, we saw something similar with donald trump when he ran for president. and that was many evangelical christians and conservatives who were able to support him and look past all of his personal shortcomings because of the supreme court, because of issues like roe v. wade and the second amendment. and many states, those are very important to those folks and it's hard to even with all of roy moore's terrible baggage, those voters are looking at the fact that it's not so much a vote for the individual. it's a vote for the party. >> right. and what it means in the senate. >> i totally disagree with that,

but that's how a lot of people see it. >> we have, i think, one thing that i actually want to ask you about, there were over a dozen women who accused president trump of sexual misconduct during his own campaign. how much, and you're looking at them there, how much of his experience in his own campaign, the tactic that he used which was to essentially say i don't -- these people are lying, is playing into his thinking now? >> a portion of it and it's the president in recent days looked at what he was doing in alabama and looked at the presence of gloria allred and how these allegations he felt were coming so close to the election in the same way they felt they came close to his election in 2016. he just sort of felt like it was becoming politicized and he has an inclination to trust people when they say i didn't do that.

you remember he came out and said those allegations are false. i didn't do napt you are looking at me skeptical. >> that's so nice. president trump, he knows that roy moore is -- he lied. he knows roy moore is lying. >> when he hears what he wants to hear, which is what he wants to hear in this case, he is very willing to take people at their word. he did it with roy moore. yesterday going into air force one and the exact same thing with vladimir putin. he said, look, putin tells me he didn't meddle in our elections and putin seems to believe it. no it is playing a role. >> trump is a liar and he takes it for granted. i lied and got away with it. and maybe this roy moore will lie and he'll be a royal supporter of mine in the senate. >> he knows how vulnerable he is. if these women are telling the truth, then so are -- and i believe them, are the women who

made all of the allegations against trump when he's a candidate telling the truth. >> this is a little different. the 14-year-old -- for me, it's all bad, but a 14-year-old girl. no one is contesting the truth to that. he's contesting the gloria a allred, but the actual reporting in the post -- >> she then spoke very credibly. >> totally. no one has challenged a thing on that. >> charlie sikes, i see you trying to get in. i want to bring in nbc's von hilliard who has been living down in alabama for us and joins me from huntsville. what is the latest from the ground in alabama? we're seeing reports that the communications director for moore's campaign has resigned. what can you tell us? >> reporter: john rogers who has been working for the communications director for the last month and a half is no longer with the campaign. he is no longer a part of this apparatus. the campaign is down to just six individuals.

four of those being alabamans, two others are operatives out of florida. nbc news has more people on the ground than the roy moore campaign for the u.s. senate does just three weeks out. i bring that point up about six being here because it's not dissimilar from the discussion that we were having one year ago about donald trump's campaign. and the willingness among republicans to work for a candidate like roy moore. ultimately, more wins on december 12th. they'll have to fund a way to staff the senate office in d.c. but local offices across the state as well as committee staff. you know this. anywhere from 25 to 40 staffers they'll have to fill positions for, kasie. >> how much have the president's comments resonated or been heard on the ground in alabama? we, obviously, have talked quite a bit about them in the 24 hours since they happened. but is that breaking through in alabama? >> we talked to several over the last lunch hour, kasie. and to many of the ones we

talked to, republicans that were already hesitant about voting for moore in the first place. we have those doubtful about these claims made by these women but there's not an insignificant number of republicans who don't know how they're going to vote. some say they'll not go to the ballot box at all and others say there's a chance they could go for doug jones. how many can doug jones pull off is the question? we saw a web video released by doug jones' campaign that it's worth taking a listen to because it's trying to pull over those very republicans. >> vaughn, thank you for your time. we do have that ad. we can show it to you right now. >> leigh corfman. beverly young nelson. debbie wesson gibson. gloria thwacker deason, gina richardson. wendy miller. kelly harrison thorp. and the list is growing. they were girls when roy moore

immorally pursued them. now they are women, witnesses to us all of his disturbing conduct. will we make their abuser a u.s. senator? tina johnson, becky gray. >> charlie sikes, pretty powerful ad there. what is your take? >> i think we're missing a key portion of a key aspect of this. why donald trump is weighing in, what he is doing. this is about self-preservation. this is coming to him at some point because of the number of women that have accused him. what he is doing is he is trying -- basically, there's a possibility all those women are lying. you know, we are in this cultural moment right now where women are coming forward courageously and people are believing the women and donald trump stands up at the president of the united states, you know, a lot of these women may be lying. maybe all of these women are lying and he's laying that down to convince people that when the train comes to him on all of this, that there is this

preconception that, yes, maybe all the women who have accused roy moore are lying but also the women who accused donald trump were lying. so this takes on different significance. it's way beyond just the senate election in alabama. they need to understand why it's so important to cast doubt on women who are coming forward. >> i think it's going to be a significant datapoint for the 2018 midterm elections. in when we come back, before we all spend a day feeling thankful it turns out president trump says there's one person who isn't thankful enough. his target and that sweet coming up next. plus, the time-tested tactic that gary cohn reportedly used to get off the phone with president trump. don't tell me you've never done this before. here's a clue. "can you hear me now?" morning on the beach was so peaceful. until... it... wasn't. don't let type 2 diabetes get between you and your heart.

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president trump took to twitter this morning, surprise, surprise, for a predawn rendition of his greatest hits. the first, at 5:25 in the morning. "it wasn't the white house. it wasn't the state department. it wasn't father lavar's so-called people on the ground in china that got his son aft long-term prison sentence. it was me. too bad. lavar is just a poor man's version of don king but without the hair. just think lavar, you could have spent the next five to ten years during thanksgiving with your son in china but no nba contract to support you. remember, lavar, shoplifting is not a little thing. it's a really big deal,

especially in china. ungrateful fool!" then just a few minutes later, this. the nfl is now thinking about a new idea. keeping teams in the locker room during the national anthem next season. that's almost as bad as kneeling. when will the highly paid commissioner finally get tough and smart? this issue is killing your league. the panel is back with me to talk through some of this. doug, let me start with you. you and charlie sikes are our two main nfl fans on the panel today. is he -- this idea that the nfl is killing their league, yes, no, what's going on here? why is this such a winning issue for him? he keeps going back to him. >> and i think -- so there's some history with trump and the nfl. when he was running -- he was an owner in the usfl years ago. and he tried to sue the nfl and he lost. he actually won but only won $1

in court and the usfl ended up folding. he wanted to get into the nfl. he didn't. i think he holds a lot of anger towards the nfl still for that. i think we see this as a president who has a hard time getting over slights and grievances and that's in part why he continues to go after the nfl. i also think he has a propensity to single out and go after african-american athletes and entertainers. he went after the ceo of merck after the charlottesville event. he'd gone after jamil hill, marshawn lynch, steph curry. so i don't really get -- i understand why he's doing it politically. he thinks it's a winning move for his base. but this was -- there's so many other important things going on in this country and to wake up at 5:00 in the morning and send a tweet about lavar ball doesn't

make any sense. >> ashley parker, you have any reporting on what set this off at this early hour? >> not particularly. but i can tell you often, what sets him off is something he has watched on tv. so something he's seen on "morning joe" or "f "fox & friends." there was a thought he used twitter as misdirection when he doesn't want to deal with roy moore accusers because it may remind people of his own accusers. i believe largely this is a president who cannot help himself and tweets what he is thinking in that moment. this was just on his mind when he woke up. >> charlie sikes, i am going to go on a limb and say, i assume you're a green bay packers fan? >> yes. >> is stoking -- does stoking this controversy help him in a state like wisconsin? >> no, i agree with ashley, but a lot of this is impulse. lack of impulse control. this is a thing about racial

dogwhistles. they're called dog whistles because you're not supposed to be able to hear them. this is so unsubtle what he is doing. he's sitting there going, what -- what athlete, what figure can i pick a fight with? how can i stoke racial divisions in order to, i don't know, firm my base up. i agree that he is just doing what he is thinking, but, you know, when you have the president of the united states on the anniversary of the assassination of john f. kennedy marking it by these kind of twitter storms you realize that, what a small, petty man. but his willingness to play this cart of cultural division is one of the most extraordinary things about his presidency and we shouldn't take it for granted. >> i do think, though, he's a demagogue. he does what his impulse is. but he's not stupid exactly. he's clever. and he knows this fight with the nfl over people not standing for

the national anthem, or the polling suggests that people kind of think they should stand. these wealthy athletes and so forth. they don't take as seriously as they should. and he does it. it gets -- plays well certainly with his supporters and maybe with a few people who aren't has supporters and then does it again. he's shrewd about playing cards that have worked once and playing them over and over. whether it's denying just flatly the charges because it worked once. you never do anything good by half giving inner half apologizing or playing a kind of race card on in of these issues. so this is what demagogues do. >> he's at his best in fights one on one. so if he can take on one person, right, he has the belittling, childish nicknames, the bully pulpit of twitter. able to do things not presidential. he feels he can win one on one

fights with someone lower than them because they're not the president of the united states. >> speaking of one on one versus group settings, there was an interesting exchange earlier today with senator carper who had an interesting account of a phone call while the president was in asia with a group of senators about tax reform. let's take a look. >> about 30 minutes into the call, gary gets up and takes a call and comes back into the room. we have somebody calling in from asia and it was the president. nice of him to do that. 15 minute s later, the presiden is still talking. i said on gary, it was a rumor, and i said, gary, why don't you just take the phone from -- your cell phone back and say, mr. president, you're brilliant and -- but we're losing contact. i think we're going to lose you now so, good-bye. that's what he did. we went become to having the conversation we needed.

>> are you saying gary cohn faked a bad connection to get the president off the phone? >> i don't want to throw him under the bus, but yes. >> ashley parker, nbc's reporting does not 100% line up with hanging up on the president but it seems that they are interested in taking the president's input. they'd rather do this themselves. >> that's exactly right. and one of the things that's starting to come up now more publicly that used to just be talked about privately is that a number of people, certainly on capitol hill, republicans and even some people who work for the president and work in his administration don't necessarily respect him. and the -- i agree. it's a totally good trick. i was a teenager, too. but people who respect the president of the united states, a, don't do that and, b, don't go on television and share it. >> fair enough. when we come back, the latest accusations being thrown at the longest serving member of congress. the consequences his allies

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and do your thing. reports of another allegation of sexual harassment for the longest serving member of congress. john conyers. he's already dealing with an investigation by the house ethics committee. a repercussion from a buzzfeed report that he settle d. it's an allegation conyers vehemently denied. this new accusation citing federal court documents that say another female staffer filed a lawsuit against the congressman before dropping it earlier this year. conyers told us the former staffer voluntarily decided to drop the case. still in an editorial today, the detroit free press is calling for conyers to step down.

now. let's bring reverend al sharpton into the conversation. thanks for being here. i want to start with what you think john conyers should do here. should he step aside from his house judiciary position while this is investigated? >> i talked earlier today with congressman gregory meeks who is a member of the congressional black caucus. he feels congressman conyers should step aside. we all certainly celebrate his work down through the years, but these are very serious charges. he should have a right to defend himself but should step aside from the judiciary committee, not his seat, from his position there until the ethics committee has satisfied these charges either way. >> you mentioned congressman gregory meeks. we have the sound of him talking about this earlier today.

let's take a look at that. >> you do think he should step down as the ranking member of the judiciary committee, even before this investigation? >> yeah, i think that given that there is one and now another incident of women coming in to say it would not be appropriate on the judiciary committee to sit there. he should step down as the ranking member with the opportunity. if he defends himself and says there's nothing there, then he can come back. but you can't in my estimation, in a scenario we're in to be the ranking member of the judiciary committee at this time. he should step down. >> meeks' stance is different from what james clyburn had to say to "the new york times." he's not sure these claims against conyers have any real substance and he says you can't jump to conclusions with these types of things. for all i know, all of this could be made up.

reverend, what accounts for the discrepancy here. why are you on a different -- you and congressman meeks on a different page from jim clyburn? >> i think the page that we're on is saying in terms of the sensitivity of the judiciary committee. i think that what congressman clyburn is saying is that we could find out that some of this is not accurate. we're not dealing here with a situation that he does not deserve the right to defend himself and that he is not deserving the right -- when you look at the second accuser that they withdrew their complaint, there has to be -- that has to be looked into. why did they come with their complaint? you can't write one news story, have an accuser and all of a sudden, that becomes the fact because then everyone could be subjected to that. so i think that that is what congressman clyburn is saying. but i think what meeks has raised to some of us is the fact

that the judiciary committee where he'd have to hear and conduct as ranking member looks into other situations. that could be reason for him to step aside from that position until this is cleared up. not from his congressional duties. >> doug, let's talk about this issue a little more broadly. you worked on capitol hill for a long time. how big of a problem is sexual harassment on capitol hill? is this, in fact, just the tip of the iceberg with what we're seeing with congressman conyers? >> we've heard today that, you know, that millions of dollars of taxpayer money was devoted for settlements. more of those members are going to be revealed over the next few days, weeks, months i'm pretty sure of it. and the nature of the place, you know, you have -- there are a bunch of -- conyers, a bunch of -- these are old codgers who are operating in a world that no longer exists and shouldn't have existed in the first place in

terms of how you treat women. it's going to be very hard. you heard the story today about barton. you have conyers. you have conyers. you've got -- a situation where these folks don't necessarily have like anything to do afterwards so getting them to go is going to be really hard. but they also are looking at the president. they're looking at president trump and they're looking at roy moore. and they're saying, these guys haven't gone anywhere. why should i step down? now i don't agree with that but if you're conyers, if you are some of these folks who are going to be dealing with this, there haven't been consequences for the president. there hasn't been consequences for roy moore. and they are looking at themselves and saying, why should i be the first one to fall here? >> let's talk for a second here about al franken as well because one of the ways that this conversation has expanded as person after person has been subject to these kinds of claims is the question of degrees. and at what point and how do you punish people.

i think we have a poll that shows just how many people believe that al franken should resign. so fuft% of this politico morning consult poll said franken should step down. and 22% -- this is something i've heard from democratic sources. they're grappling with how to respond to this. at what point do they say we have a line in the sand, a zero tolerance policy for this? i mean, what's your sense of where that line should be here? >> i don't have a good answer, but to your point, one of the things that i've also sort of just find sad generally as a human that as we're talking about all these things, people really are debating, you know, gradations of badness. and, you know, is a charlie rose quite the same as an al franken? some people say any sexual impropriety, sexual harassment is unacceptable, which it absolutely is, but they might want to treat them in different ways.

and i think everyone is grappling with that right now. >> why is this okay in politics? is it simply because voters vote en masse? it's not okay in corporate america. clearly people that have had major and significant and repeated accusations leveled at them have been suspended or fired. it doesn't happen with these candidates. >> well, finally. people are all surprised with this guy. gee, what a surprise. i wouldn't say corporate america has clean hands or hollywood does. i don't think washington does. i think it's hterrible. there are gradations. there are people doing things on the job, off the power. at the end of the day it's bad. we should have a constitutional amendment. only women can be elected to congress. a 535-member female members of congress for the next congress and that would be -- have a clean place out and move

forward. that's my proposal. >> i'm not supposed to express political opinion but you make it very hard to not agree with you. thank you reverend al sharpton. we'll back with brand-new reporting to do with the russia investigation and michael flynn. that's coming up. [ keyboard clacking ]

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[ clacking continues ] good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours. new reporting out just this hour from nbc news. about special counsel bob mueller's investigation. he's zeroing in on another associate of michael flynn. a partner at the now-dissolved flynn intel group. mueller's team has questioned multiple witnesses about his lobbying work on behalf of turkey. we're joined by michael schmidt, washington correspondent for "the new york times" and julia ainsley national security and justice reporter.

she wrote this story for us. put this in context. why should -- why do we care about this guy? how does he fit into this puzzle? >> he's an iranian american who worked with michael flynn at the flynn intel group. much the same way rick gates worked with paul manafort and they were indicted simultaneously. it's a strategy of robert mueller's to work from the outside bein to put pressure. and keon was involved at a very deep level probably more so than flynn's sun who was setting up meetings. one was with representative dana rohrabacher who is a very pro-russia member. >> the kremlin had given a code name. >> exactly. he was that high up. they loorking at the lobbying work on behalf of turkey. they didn't disclose they received $530,000 from the -- to lobby on behalf of the turkish government. there could be a russia element

here as well if you look at the rohrbacher meeting. >> michael schmidt, can you put this in the broader context? what does this tell you about where mueller is going, what phase is the investigation in now? >> well, there's been this notion out there for a few weeks now being pushed by the white house that mueller's investigation is coming to an end and it could be done by the end of the year. that doesn't look like that's going to be the case. we've seen no indication of that. if anything it looks like mueller will be around for a long time. certainly he's focused in on these flynn intel group folks and flynn himself and flynn's son, and they are taking that part of the investigation as seriously as they're taking any other part. and it's very complicated, similar to the paul manafort stuff. it involves work for a foreign government. it involves money and taxes and the way the money was moved and registrations near washington for work for a foreign country. so these are complicated things,

and they are being very diligent. it's going to take time. it just means the story, the mueller investigation story, will continue on into next year. >> michael there was also a headline in "the wall street journal." the special counsel mueller probed jared kushner's contacts with foreign leaders. mueller's prosecutors have asked witnesses detailed questions about mr. kushner's views of mr. comey, jim comey, the former fbi director, and whether mr. kushner was in favor of firing him or whether he had staked out any position. what is this tell you about the -- what should we take from this? >> the reporting has shown that the president relied on jared kushner in the weekend before jim comey was fired. the president was at bedminster at his golf club and it was a rainy weekend. the president was to play golf but didn't have a chance to that

friday. he began to stew over comey and kushner was there with him. what mueller is trying to understand is what was the president's mind-set? why did the president really want to fire comey? was it because of the stated reasons, the initial stated reasons from the white house? the white house said it was because of what rod rosenstein had said. he happens to be overseeing this investigation. or the other reasons the president gave later to lester holt? what did jared kushner know about the president's reasons and what influence was jared kushner trying to have on the president in relation. so that's what -- >> ashley parker, what's your sense of the mood in the white house? over the weekend you reported quite a bit of this divided thinking on where this probe is going. >> this is the thinking inside the white house and people close to the president in his inner circle but not all in the white house. and it is divided. and the people who sort of feel it's wrapping up are the people who believe the reassurances of ty cobb, the white house lawyer

handling this. and he originally said this would be over by thanksgiving. obviously that's not the case. >> happy thanksgiving, everybody. >> he readjusted to the new year but they sort of say, ty is a lawyer. ty knows what he's doing. he tells us we'll be fine and we believe we'll be fine. there's other people who say that's insane and a naive view. some advocating the president including steve bannon to say he's in over his head. mueller is, for all the reasons we just stated, he's just getting started. this probe is going to go for a while and everyone should be worried. >> charlie sikes, how much do you think this matters in the long run to republican voters? this is something, you know, i feel like i'm constantly fielding criticism that says, you know what? this is not -- when i go back home, this is not what i hear about. >> well, we'll see what they find but bill kristol and i were old enough to remember whin republican voters carried about the possibility that russia

might have tried to subvert our democraerks hack our democracy. there was a time conservative republicans would have thought that was a very, very big deal. but again, i agree with what ashley just said. it's delusional to think this is about to wrap up. every single day we find out how deep the reach is, the tentacles of this investigation are and how broad it is. this thing is not going to wrap up before the paul manafort trial, for example, which is not even scheduled until april. and if there are, you know, smoking guns or dazzling details about a plot to essentially sell out this country, i would think that republican voters are going to care for much. maybe not the hard core trumpist or people who are living within the echo chamber of fox news, but it's going to be a significant problem. >> julia, quick last word before we go. what does this new reporting and what you've learned tell you

about where the status of potential indictments might be for michael flynn and his son? >> that's a great question. we know timingwise that mueller's team has just started to interview witnesses related to keon and the grand jury will be the next step spoep it's looking like as far as a possible indictment, which we know is enough information to do, could be some time between thanksgiving and christmas, if he does it. but, of course, there's still probably the hope from the mueller team that flynn will feel his pressure and start cooperating. and essentially give them -- >> michael schmidt, thank you very much for coming in today. really appreciate it. >> we are going to take a quick break. when we come back, five of the most powerful people in washington getting together for a meeting next week. we'll tell you who it is and what they're going to talk about. it's time for "your business" of the week. small business saturday is november 25th. and the big retailers on main

street in franklin, tennessee. they are banding together encouraging cust noers shop local with special events and charitable giving. for more watch "your business" on weekend mornings. every day, on every street, in every town, across america. small businesses show their love to you. with some friendly advice, a genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town... well, your town. that's why american express is proud to be the founding partner of small business saturday. a day where you get to return that love, because shopping small makes a big difference. so, this saturday get up, get out, and shop small.

at first glance, it might seem like a sleepy day here in the nation's capital, but look a little closer. it's easy to recognize that this is the calm before the storm. on the other side of the holiday expect high stakes conflict. nbc news learning a short time ago the top four congressional leaders, paul ryan, chuck schumer, mitch mcconnell and nancy pelosi head to the white house on tuesday at 3:00, meeting with president trump and talk about the long list of things they have to finish before year's end. let's get the panel back here. the main -- the main agenda item on the list being keeping the

government open, which doug forei forknell, expires in march but democrats see this a leverage and could take to us a shutdown. what are the dynamics? >> democrats and some republicans. people like cokorbelo and other in florida who want this finished so folks have certainty heading into the next year and a bill push among the chc, very influential -- >> congressional hispanic caucus. >> to get this done before the end of the year. yes, and nancy pelosi, steny hoyer, the people negotiating this will try to get that as part of the final spending package. the reality, paul ryan needs the votes. he's not going to be able to pass a spending bill i don't think, just with republicans and has to figure how to work with house democrats, and that's probably their number one item.

>> not only not be able to pass the bill only by republicans, no republican support at all. you hear he and mitch mcconnell up for a bill basically continuing the government at the current level. no wall, presumably, and a -- you know, democratic proposal basically on daca. i mean, it's -- it's really going to be amazing. you understated it in the opening, the next three weeks. think about it. republicans jam through a tax bill, try to, on a partisan bill, hurrying up the votes before the election in alabama, scared they may lose that feet and keeping the government open and daca. extend that a couple weeks to just before christmas i suppose. but a lot of issues are floating around. people try to attach things, not attach things. questions about the obamacare fix. so i think you could -- it's -- then the mueller investigation,

sex scandals. an amazing -- it's going to be a pretty wild month, and then the dynamic of chuck and nancy. >> right. forgot about that everyone's favorite democratic duo when they go to the white house and in the past so far each time the president has sort of been impressed with, among other things, sort of their vigor and stamina and the way they present -- >> are you saying paul ryan and mitch mcconne mitch mcconnell don't have bigger stamina? >> i think the president is saying that. and so far walked out with what they want. that said, just because you reach a doeal in the presume wih the president is what nancy and chuck experienced earlier in the year. the president likes deals. chuck schumer likes deals. there may be maneuvering room there not making republicans happy. >> and trying to jump in there? >> i mean, i agree with bill

kristol. democrats have tremendous amount of leverage rooeight here. paul ryan, mitch mcconnell won't have votes to get it through. particularly paul ryan. what's the compromise? is donald trump going to sit down, cut a deal to give them the daca extension without the wall? one of the first times he would have gotten crossways with his own base. the one thing the president hasn't been willing to do, cross the steve bannon base on this immigration issue. this becomes very, very complicated, and also as you point out, chuck and nancy have figured out that they can't necessarily rely on deals cut with this guy. plus he's not a very good negotiator. >> and so sorry. hard out. and will be right back. ( ♪ ) dad: molly! trash! ( ♪ )

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really quick final question to the panel. are we going to have a shutdown for christmas? >> no. >> no. >> could be. >> charlie sykes with me? >> no. probably not. >> all right.

four nos. see how this holds up in a couple weeks. thanks for coming in the day before thanksgiving. bill, ashley, doug and charlie sikes. that does it for us this hour. i'm kasie hunt, "mtp daily" starts right now with katy tur in thor chuck. hey. >> aren't the best panels the ones that come out, hang out with you the day before thanksgiving? that's when you know who your real friends are. >> should have had wine. >> oh, i have wine. just you wait. kidding. i'm kidding. don't worry, bosses. kasie, thank you. if it's wednesday, moral support meets the moral low ground. tonight -- why eastern sexual misconduct allegations don't seem to be immune from the glacial pace of change on capitol hill. >> we make decisions all the time about what it's worth to you, and whether it's worth it. plus, a new boost to the republican tax plan. why president trump may be closer than ever to a big legislative win. and the