that is just out and we're live as the iron bowl takes over alabama. a look at who is still supporting roy moore and who is not on board. >> everybody is going crazy over this sexual allegations, roy moore would have -- to me when he brought in steve bannon should have been disqualified. >> controversy and "time" magazine disputing the president's tweet that he passed on being the person of the year and his fascination with that ward. and will flynn flip. now that his lawyers have split with the white house he is working with robert mueller. and the link to turkey that could force him to cooperate there. president trump standing by his man roy moore. but at what cost. new revelations "the new york times" just out this afternoon suggesting trump's defense of the alabama senate candidate may be backfiring. as members of the president's own party look to distance themselves from the man accused of sexual misconduct allegations that moore denies.

but that friction seems to be seeping into trump's very own inner family. his inner circle with comments from daughter ivanka putting the president in a tough spot. "the new york times" reporting that was just out this afternoon, president trump venting his annoyance with his daughter saying, quote, there was a special place in hell for people who prey on children. that is what ivanka trump said and suggesting that trump sympathized with moore comparing calls for the embattled candidate to step down to his own experience. including the notorious "access hollywood" tape. and even going as far here as to suggest that the tape was fake. according to the new york times, he suggested to a senator earlier this year that that tape was not authentic and repeated that claim to an adviser more recently. let's brief in our washington correspondent katherine ram pell

and what do you make of the reporting that just came out in the last bunch of hours from the new york times. first off with the issue of his very own daughter coming out in front and saying there is a special place in hell for people that are predators against children. >> in any other administration, those comments would not in the least have been controversial. who among us would not hesitate to condemn someone who preys upon children. but in this administration, it puts the president in a particular bind. because if we believe the accusations against roy moore, why not believe the accusations against donald trump who was accused of harassing and walking in and teenage beauty queens changing, those in glass houses ought not to throw stones is the lesson here. and so you could understand why trump may be projecting a little bit and saying, if i give in to the line of reasoning, that we

should condemn any politician accused of credible allegations of sexual assault, may that will come back to bite me minute butt. >> and kevin according to the piece it said that the president reacted to his daughter's statement about a special place in hell. and he said, quote, do you believe this? again, reacting to what his daughter had said. so a couple of ways to construe this. how the president feels or potentially that his daughter is speaking out on a topic he wished she was not. >> richard, it is not just ivanka trump raising concerns about roy moore, it is prominent republicans including majority leader mitch mcconnell who was never a fan of roy moore before these allegations had made their way forward. but look, this is a moment of reckoning in american culture and i think now the policy on capitol hill is starting to reflect as much. even in the senate tax plan, by the way, kellyanne conway of course has said they just want

that tax plan done by the end of the year. but even in that tax plan, there is actually language that republicans are putting forth that would make it no longer possible for folks to issue as a tax writeoff their nondisclosure agreements for sexual harassment settlements. think about that for a second. people can have -- a tax write off for their nondisclosure agreements for sexual harassment cases. ant the second point quickly is that senator kirsten gillibrand putting out legislation supported by bipartisan folks calling for sexual harassment training in the hall of congress. so this is across industry and in every industry in politics. we're seeing it in alabama and also in every industry and quite frankly an industry that hasn't even been reported yet. but right now the policy conversation is starting to shift in the halls of congress. >> you have a sexual harassment point that you bring up in the vote coming up this week. a lot of folks saying that it will probably pass but only bring up the standard to what

most organizations -- for profit businesses are doing right now. you were talking about congress and the senate and the house and let's look at the senate for a second. and especially when it comes to the tax plan and as we move toward 2018, katherine, one of the headlines in the last 24 hours is dissatisfaction with the leadership in the senate. mitch mcconnell, and that basically as the republicans had done before, they are doing a pelosi on mcconnell. we don't want to be associated with mitch mcconnell because he's got nothing done. and when we look at how he has worked on the issue of roy moore and sexual harassment, a lot of dissags wi -- dissatisfaction t with the leadership. >> yes. the republican party has been eating itself for the last couple of years. they have been running against washington elite and they have been running against the establishment. eventually the logical conclusion of that line of argument is again that you're going to basically push out your

own. that if the elite previously were members of the democratic administration, last year the obama administration, if they were democrats in the past, now they have become the leadership within the republican party, which now controls all branches of government. and has no one else to blame for its own failure. so of course mitch mcconnell, paul ryan, others who are the face of the party who are not able to get the agenda through are faltering as a result. >> and the face of the party of course the leader of the party would be donald trump, along with mitch mcconnell. but donald trump and i'll go back to the article here, kevin. again he suggesting to a senator this year that that tape was not authentic. and then according to the reporting, that he repeated the claim to an adviser more recently and as both of you know, in the hours after that tape came out, mr. trump acknowledged that the voice was his and then apologized.

kevin. >> i mean, republicans don't want to be talking about this tape. it doesn't help them. and heading into 2018 -- >> but if you will, the back and forth. >> well i think the back and forth is quite remarkable. just given that we're coming into the end of the president's first year in office and the tape is still being brought up. but look, there are factions within this republican party -- it is clear you have folks like steve bannon and the like who are trying to activate a certain faction of the grassroots and the republican party and then you have folks like leader mcconnell and the other camp and how president trump plays political referee so to speak is going to influence just how they are able or not able to hold on to a republican -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> and that is a good point. >> he is taking responsibility here. >> and i think on the flip side of that, we could talk about who is in control of the republican party, but who is in control of the democratic party. >> that is another day, my friend. that is another day. i appreciate that point. because we want to get both

sides. on this brand-new article in "the new york times," thank you so much. great stuff. president trump spending the long holiday weekend at his mar-a-largo resort in palm beach, florida and learning some things might not work the way he thinks they do. "time" magazine pushing back on this trump tweet. called to say that i was probably going to be named, person of the year. like last year. but i would to agree to an interview and a major photo shoot and i said probably is no good and took a pass. thanks any way. he was the person of the year last year after winning election and they said he is wrong about the process of picking the new chief of the consumer financial protection bureau. he named nick mulvaney to full the post but an acting chief was chosen by the bureau's out going director richard cordray. the legal battle now seems likely to figure out who is right here. let's go now to nbc news kellio

donnell live in west palm beach not far from mar-a-largo following the president and let's start with the "time" magazine controversy, he said and they said. >> reporter: exactly. the president brought this up on twitter without any real expectation that there was something brewing. so it really struck "time" magazine and it is a pop culture moment. at the end of the year there is some build-up about who would be chosen as person of the year. the distinction is about who has influenced events for good or bad more than anyone else and it could be a person or an idea. well president trump tweeted he had been contacted by "time" magazine, that an interview and photo shoot was requested, but what seemed to get him was the notion that he might probably be the person of the year. and then he claims he was taking a pass. well "time" magazine disputes that and said that is not how it works. one of the top officials said there is not a shred of truth to that. so where is the story.

it is customary that there is a list of finalists for the person of the year. the president wouldn't be able to just kind of bat it away but it certainly has been another one of those moments where the president is able to stir up a controversy with the media outlet. "time" magazine will make its own decision and become public on december 6th but it is something that he had wanted for years, he's been on the cover many times and called it a great honor last year and now he said he doesn't want the distinction yet again. only once has there been a back to back individual who was named person of the year in two consecutive years and that was richard nixon in 1971 and 72. so if you are interested in the man of the year, president trump has kind of stirred that pot and made it perhaps a more heightened count down than it might have been otherwise. >> and you know what, kelly, probably more issues will be -- purchased because of that very controversy in those five or six

tweets he put out. let's move on to something else you are following closely. this is according to what the white house is saying versus what the cfpb is saying that again the former director saying who should lead next. where are we at with that. >> reporter: well the law that created the consumer financial protection bureau did provide for succession and richard cordray named his deputy to fill in and that should have been a sufficient response. except this is a politically charged issue. the white house which has not liked this entity and republicans have been quite critical of the consumer financial protection bureau which began during the obama years. it is only about six years old. the president instead nominated his office of management and budget director nick mulvaney to be an interim chief until there is a permanent person named and confirmed about the senate. so this is an internal trugle over power over an agency that from its inception has been

politically charged. richard cordray was appointed by president obama. he is leaving the office to go back to ohio to run for governor as a democrat. so you could see the political overtones in this. the white house is saying there is a vacancy at t-- statute to their own choice. >> and that organization helping some 29 million americans since it was created. nbc news kelly o'donnell. thank you for bringing us up to date. a new report claims robert mueller is reportedly looking into flynn's -- michael flynn's financial ties to the turkish government. what could mean for michael flynn and the russian investigation. i just got my cashback match,

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we have new headlines for you on this saturday. in special counsel robert mueller's russia investigation, the "wall street journal" reporting that mueller is looking into more possible evidence former national security adviser michael flynn concealed financial ties to foreign governments including work he did on an unfinished film said to be financed by turkish interests. this after nbc news confirmed that the flynn legal team told trump's lawyers they could no longer share information. a move that could signal flynn is cooperating with the mueller team or looking to strike a deal now. let's bring in former federal prosecutor and current candidate for illinois attorney general, and malcolm nance, author of the plot to hack america.

thank you both. ronaldo, first on the legal implications here. what are you seeing when it comes to first of all the development that came out with the legal team's not working with each other any more? >> that is really big news, richard. because typically defense attorneys, when you represent people who are being investigated by the government, you always want to communicate with each other. because the government does not reveal a lot of information to you. so any little nuggets you get from the government you usually want to share with each other. it is almost always in your interest to do so. and the obvious implication here as you pointed out is that michael flynn is trying to pursue a deal with robert mueller and that is really significant. it surprised me as a starting point because while that would be the obvious move typically for someone in flynn's position, i expected that his team thought they were going to get a pardon. i would -- i would expect according to james comey, the president asked him to drop the

investigation against flynn because he's a good guy. so that would suggestion to me a closeness between flynn and the president. the fact that flynn is looking at deal means there are state charges that the president couldn't pardon or he was told by trump's team that they won't -- that the president won't pardon flynn and his son which -- which might be because that could be used as evidence against the president by mueller and his obstruction case. >> malcolm you are good at seeing things behind the scenes and reading the tea leaves and what do you think was happening behind the scenes? >> well to tell you the truth, the thing that surprised me the most in the last two days is jay seca lou his lawyer stating that it was the obama administration that gave michael flynn his top secret security clearance before he became national security adviser. which is true. he retained his clearance after he lost his job and was fired by the obama administration as a

courtesy for all former directors of intelligence. as the trump administration had to vet him for a job as national security adviser. that hinted to me that whatever the matter is, they are tightening a circle around his finances with regards to turkey, with regards to russia. that is low hanging fruit. and they've got him frobl probably dead to rights and the documentation supports that. but the matter of him making a phone call to moscow during the transition and quite promising something to russia that leads to his security clearance. by deflecting to the obama administration it is almost an admission that they violated some law in that respect. >> i want to add on to what you are saying on this and that was the new news that they are looking into adocumentary, on a film financed by turkish interest not declared here again by michael flynn. not necessarily about the film itself, but the fact there was money involved here from

potential foreign interests. what do you make of the risk he faces here? >> well, as malcolm pointed o-- out, his point is it is very easy to prove whether or not you registered as i foreign agent. and either you did or you didn't. and if you made a lot of profits and money out of that, we saw in the paul manafort charges and it will be interesting how the moneys that are made by flynn is part of this unlawful unregistered actity as a foreign agent and juries will not like hearing about a guy that makes millions of dollars working for a foreign government and doesn't reveal that to the united states government. unless you you are getting a pardon you want to plead in that situation. >> and the unfinished film that just came out in the last day or so is about a film that was -- attacking fatula, the cleric

that supposedly was masterminding the overthrow of erdogan, the leader of turkey. what do you take away from the new piece of information. >> well, you know, the film is a fascinating component of this. especially since it is related to fatula gulen who the prime minister hates with great passion. that is the least of flynn's problems here related to turkey. they've got him on the russian money from russia today. they've got him on money coming from russia -- from turkish ollo ol -- ollic arcs and potential kidnapping charges of a u.s. resident. they were going to kidnap him and secret him to a foreign government while under the pay of the united states that is violating federal and state laws on abduction. so this film is just another nail in the coffin about his mindset related to what he was

going to do for pay for the government of turkey. >> we're adding more to the case day by day. thank you both for your analysis. it is crunch time for tax reform. the president plans to meet with senators ahead of next week's expected vote next for you. the lawmakers who could stand in the way of republicans first big win under president trump.

next week could hold the moment of truth for republicans on whether they will pass the first major piece of legislation under president trump. and that pressure is on majority leader mitch mcconnell to pass the republican tax plan with a vote expected as soon as thursday. now the president will meet with the senate republican policy committee on tuesday for its weekly luncheon. where he will likely make his own push for tax reform. however the senate's bill could face resistance from some lawmakers over issues like repealing the obamacare video mandate and repealing tdeductio and maintaining seven tax brackets and lowering rates and preserving the individual deduction for medical expenses and partial list there. let's bring in our contributor.

you are good friends i understand as well. ron, i'll start with you. they've got only four weeks to get this done. will they be able to get this done in conference? >> it is beginning to look like they will, richard. there are forward movement. lisa murkowski has said this he would along with the repeal of the individual in this budget or tax reform proposal. it is open question as to whether or not ron johnson could be brought along or jeff flake or the others that you see here with respect to the size of the deficit and the treatment of small business. those are -- belong to corker and johnson respectively. so there is still work to be done but they do appear to be making some progress. >> some progress and it sounds like what we're seeing here braendon is a political impetuous that could not be topped as opposed to an economic impetuous like this is a great plan. >> well absolutely. i think we make the mistake of making this too much about donald trump. it is easy to do. he's a magnetic person.

everything ends up being about him. but this is a very republican tax plan. paul ryan has wanted to pass a budget since in college. he's been writing budgets since 2010. this budget does what republicans have always said will help the economy. it lowers taxes on the capitol and reducing the cost of capitol and create business investment. i don't think that will work very well. i have a hard time finding economists who think that will work well but that doesn't matter because republicans do. mitch mcconnell doesn't want to be president, he wants to be a successful majority leader and bob corker and jeff flake seem to have fundamental problems with the cost of this bill. everything else looks like it could be negotiated out in conference chit -- committee. so i agree with ron, i don't see much that stands in the way of this bill passing. >> ron, when you look at the approval and take the polls, right now at approval of this is 25% at least in the latest poll. and when you look at the

mechanics, it is the messaging. the headline is not we're going to help the folks that got donald trump into office and much less anybody else in that tax bracket. >> and as was just said, i think we agree when we talked about it on this network earlier in the week, this there is not much in this for anyone other large corporations and certain businesses and wealthy individuals. when you look at the way it will affect middle class as those who that supported drp. >> -- there is not a lot there. there is a tax if the long run and i agree this does not necessarily enhance the capital formation or the ability to raise money to expand your business, no matter what your business is. cost of capital is very cheap right businesses don't need cheaper capital. they need more workers. we have surplus jobs and too few workers. the opposite of the problem that the republicans are dealing with with this tax proposal. >> and as part of their annual tax return, as we look at the

small business, this is small business saturday, they don't like this plan. and when you have the engine of the country with all of their employees saying this is going to hurt us and therefore hurt you, the question is whether this will translate to those small business employees saying no, i don't like this and i won't vote the republicans back in. >> so i've been tracking this. the national federation of independent businesses does surveys every couple of months on what it is that independent business owners are looking for. and one of the things that i keep failing to find is that what they really have trouble with is access to capital, and they need for it to be cheaper. they're not saying our problem is we can't get cheap loans because they can get all of the capital they want. people with capital are desperate to throw at any kind of investment that might provide a return. and ron heard me sing this song before and it is important to distinguish between the things we know will happen and the things we hope will happen. we know this tax cut will lower

the rate for all brackets. we don't know that this will cause so much economic growth that workers will get a $4,000 wage hike. we just don't know that to be true. the models there is really bad. but when it comes to the voters, the employees of the small businesses, the affects of this tax cut, i don't think it will do that much good. but they are not felt for a very long time so i don't think there is anything for anybody to get mad at by next summer. >> quickly here ron, as the president does meet on the hill, he's going to obviously ask for certain things to be cut out because he knows they won't make it through. what do you think the one or two things that he will say to cut out of the two different bills. >> you still have to go through the process through the house and senate and i think there is more in the house that the president might reject on the adoption credit and the house bill has a $13,570 tax credit eliminated for that. so i'm not sure exactly where the president will fall on this,

the repeal of the individual mandates in his wheel house. >> spoken about recently. >> i'm not sure where he goes with this. i think the bigger question is how the house and senate reconcile their two versions of the bill, what gets thrown out and kept there. >> okay. and there are two different versions clearly. brandon greeley and ron ando sanaa, thank you so much. >> next alabama showdown. we're live at college football's iron bowl with fan reaction there on the roy moore controversy. plus enthusiasm gap that could cost the democrats. doug jones the election in the end. >> ray moore or doug jones? >> no comment. >> doug jones or roy moore. >> roy moore. >> you are sticking with him. >> yeah. >> why doug jones over roy moore. >> i think you don't have enough time for that. two friends here. yes. this is the j.d. power award for dependability. now i want you to give it to the friend that you think is most dependable. ohhhh.

ughh. wow. that's just not fair. does she have to? she doesn't have to! oh, i don't? no, but it's a tough choice, isn't it? yes. well luckily, chevy makes it a little easier. cause it's the only brand to earn j.d. power dependability awards for cars, trucks and suvs - two years in a row. that's amazing. chevy's a name you can trust!

and welcome back to msnbc. i'm richard lui in new york city. here is what we are watching at the bottom of the hour. still fall fought yout from the sexual harassment of charlie rose. arizona state university and the university of kansas are resending journalism awards given to rose. he was fired by cbs news and his show on pbs was canceled. bargain hunters, many of you kicking off holiday shopping with black friday door busters. with theonless rate at he 17 year low of 4.1% consumer

analysts expect a robust holiday shopping season and many are turning to zahn turning to -- to amazon to get gifts. bezos saw a $2.4 billion to his net worth because of the nine purchasing so that makes his fortune worth about $100 billion according to bloomberg. not bad. for peoplem people in alabama, this is a day that could divide families and test friendship. >> it is the iron ball -- iron bowl pinning the auburn tigers against the crimson tide but while that game decides the state, this year is a senate race dividing folks there. in the solid red state, republican candidate roy moore is facing sexual misconduct allegations. he is not expected to attend today's game. it marks nine straight days that he has not appeared in public. moore's opponent democrat doug jones is at the game. he hit moore for staying out of the public eye. take a listen.

>> we're talking about the issues that people in alabama have in common. and i think that that is the most important thing. and when you can't talk about those issues, you stay under wraps. >> and nbc's vaughn hilliard is live at the iron bowl there in auburn, alabama. the game is a -- started i believe just now or very soon at least. but amongst the conversations you had with those attending, what there we saying about the football game versus let's talk about roy moore. >> reporter: we have a tight ball game here in the second quarter. but you have 87,000 fans that are inside, a couple thousand more outside tailgating and while there is not much waiving going on when it comes to allegiance for alabama and auburn and when you ask the question moore or jones, 17 days out, there is still much in in the air. here is a few fans we talked to

today. >> jones, because he ain't no liar like moore. >> roy moore. >> you are sticking with him? >> yeah. because he's a swing vote. >> do you believe him? >> well, i sort of wonder why it has taken 40 years for all of this stuff to come up. >> you guys usually vote republican. >> yes. >> but this time -- >> this time it will be a write-in. >> as you heard, that is why polling in this state is particularly difficult. there is not typically competitive races here in the state across alabama and the republican base is really in question here at this point, richard. one individual i did catch up with was auburn grad and alabama native charles barkley. i asked him about the race and he's a more moderate republican and backed john kasich and considered run for governing of alabama back in 2014 and he told me it is not even a question. he called -- he called roy moore a white separatist and said he

backed doug jones. i caught up with doug jones after that and i asked hip, charles barkley called your opponent a white separatist. and much of the focus is on sexual allegations but when it comes to race and roy moore and his -- getting that point, he said what do you think of that. and goes, well i'm not much in name calling, the way he's done this campaign is not getting into too touchy subjects and staying away from the sosh -- social issues and focusing on the kitchen table issues. >> vaughn, thank you so much. let's bring in our panel. political analyst and republican strategist rick tyler and campaign direct dwror for the certainty for american progress emily tish sussman. and rick, when you look at what president trump has been saying on this very topic, and you see his defense coming out and you see the new reporting coming out of the new york times, and in

essence what he said in that article, according to the reporting here, is i'm not sure if that original "access hollywood" tape was real but he did admit it was and then he apologized. is trump defending moore here because he wants to defend himself? because he sees that as fracturing the party. >> he's in a conundrum. because if he says -- he believes roy moore -- accusers why shouldn't we believe his accusers. i find it an astonishing statement that he thinks the tape may not be real. he either knows it is -- or he knows it is not real. and it seemed obvious it was real because nbc had it and there is no reason to believe no one has come forward to say -- question the authenticity. but trump is caught in the republican party and leaders all flat footed because he took the position that if -- along with

other republicans, if the accusation were real he should drop out of the race and now reversed himself as has the white house and sarah huckabee sanders and kellyanne conway are now advocating openly to vote for roy moore. not directly, but that is pretty much when they are saying. >> kellyanne conway coming out with that statement and an ethics question around that. and reporting here when we were looking at this new york times article, emily, it said he vented his annoyance when his daughter castig ated moore by saying there is a special place in hell for people that prey on children according to three staff members that heard his comments coming out about the reporting today and then the response from donald trump was can you believe that, or he was not happy necessarily about his own daughter's comments at that time. now it is not only separating the -- party but potentially his family.

>> we've seen this before. ivanka trump trying to separate herself, but she can't. and she's part of the agenda and roy moore and the president is still supporting him. the president and kellyanne conway have done everything they could over the last week to actually try to frame this as a political question. you can't imagine -- we couldn't imagine a world where choosing politics and party over some oversexual assault is appealing but for them it is appealing for them to be framing this as a tax vote defers the question away from donald trump and his own assaulters. is he willing to overlook it, just as rick said. is he willing to overlook the numerous allegations particularly of teenagers against roy moore just to get a tax vote or is it really more about the president himself. as we see, it is mostly always about the president himself. >> one of the main names here, rick, that you have been watching on the right here is mitch mcconnell, as the majority leader in the senate and his

role in roy moore and he's trying to think of ways -- at least what he has said so far and working on a strategy to remove moore if he were to be elected into office. but yet on the flip side, he's been at least in recent reporting castig ated and people saying that others who are running for congress saying they are not use -- using his name because he's not doing enough. has mcconnell been doing enough. >> he is central to roy moore winning his primary. everybody in alabama and all of the reports that i spoke to, everybody knew who mitch mcconnell was and he was the boogie man in the race. i'm not a fan of mitch mcconnell but this is not about him. this is about roy moore and the accusations against him. and having that said, if roy moore is elected, i worry about using the expulsion rule and the last person that t was -- it was

attempted against was rob packwood and here is the reason. when you have a president who undermines the media and undermines the justice department and then you have a political party who would use the expulsion rule and that sets up a dangerous precedent going forward to use politics to get rid of a candidate or opponents you doan -- don't like. it is unique because the republicans are taking out a republican. but it is still a very extreme measure. >> and emily this is a bipartisan criticism here when we look at the hill. we have the sexual harassment bill which we voted on this coming week. many saying it is about time. what should both sides -- what should democratic leadership also look at in terms of improving if not bettering what is the current standard bh it comes to issues related to sexual harassment and sexual assault. >> look, there is much to be done. bills are coming forward are trying to break through this ridiculous -- i think it is a

six step process in congress on a very limited time line. so they're absolutely has to be reform. our culture is changing rapidly. many people saw the election of donald trump even though the access hollywood tapes were out there at the time he admitted they were real. and now we're saying this is not the kind of culture we want to live in. the roy moore -- i think the reason the roy moore case has taken national attention because we are at the question of what do we accept from political leaders and what is a bridge too far. he was a despicable man and a disgusting candidate before this and we've heard that from republican leaders. bob corker said he was always a bridge too far and now we have a question of what we're willing to accept. >> emily and rick, thank you both. have a good saturday. calls for the president to reverse a decision that ends temporary status for more than 50,000 haitians living in the u.s. following the 2010 earthquake. we'll talk with an immigration attorney about the chances of that happening.

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somebody tell me. we gain absolutely nothing. >> florida congresswoman frederica wilson iraqing to tree trump administration ending the status of the victims of the earthquake in haiti. protests at mar-a-lago in florida have done little to get trump to let the expirations expire. already reports of haitians fleeing america to cross over into canada in search of asylum there. something that many sudanese immigrants did after the administration stripped them of protected status this september. joining us now, an immigration attorney who is trying to help them navigate in this new trump era. fiona, just a scene-setter, in your state alone, you have some 5,000 haitians, i believe, and a

portion of those obviously part of the temporary protected status, or tps system here. what have you been hearing on the ground? >> yeah, that's correct, richard. in total, nationally, there are about 50,000 haitians. in addition to all the u.s. citizen children that those individuals have had. and we must think of those children as well, when we're looking at the numbers. >> and what are you hearing? do you have any cases directly? or have you heard from other lawyers in the space? what are they telling about what these haitians are going through? >> yeah, we work with clients who have tps from many countries and it's just yet again, it is more anti-immigrant policies from this administration. and we're seeing people who have really rooted themselves and their family in the united states. these people have jobs. over 80% of them are employed, they have mortgages, families, and they're part of our communities. now they have basically been told to pack up their bags and

get ready to leave the united states. >> what hurts the united states if they stay? what helps the united states if they are asked to leave? >> the america that we all know and love and an america that welcomes people, especially vulnerable communities. and it's not easy for a country to get this tps designation. they have to show that the country, that there's really something extraordinary going on in the country, such as war or environmental disasters. and i think the states have long logged that it's inhumane to depart people back to a home country where conditions like that exist. >> you're aware of that because you watch the law and you see how tps is affecting others, specific to not only haitians, but also nicaraguans associated with this declaration. there's also the sudanese which i brought up earlier in september. look at the sudanese and how they have looked to other countries, such as canada in the north, as a place to go to.

is it an immediate, you must leave, and if you don't, what happens? >> no, so they do have time. although, for people who have been here for years, giving them 18 months or however long, is never sufficient. you know, america is their new home. and what will happen to these people from a legal standpoint, is, they will return to the status they had prior to that tps. for many of them, that could be undocumented. >> undocumented as well. so there's some 30,000 children born to haitians with tps, and thaf that was the illusion that the representative was saying, a large portion in florida, also some in your state of illinois. what does it mean for the children? >> as a mother of two young children myself, i really cannot imagine how a child, you know, we want to protect our children as well, but i mean, you only have to turn on the news to hear what's going on and, you know, they're worried these children will have, especially coming up to the holidays, the fear that

their parents could be deported. >> they'll be spraleparated? >> yeah, exactly. i don't know first hand but i see our clients every day and i know i can see the anxiety and the fear and it's terrible. >> what can happen to reverse this? >> so going forward, there really needs to be some type of permanent fix. the temporary protected status is temporary. and dealing with the current administration, we obviously don't want things that requecan just taken away unilaterally. i know there's bipartisan support for some type of permanent solution. so hopefully congress can add that to the list of things like daca and the clean d.r.e.a.m. act we're hoping for as well. >> with the state department going through its own leadership questions at the moment, it may make it all more difficult for folks like you. thanks so much, fiona. >> thank you. coming up, new details emerging today on why president

trump is sticking by roy moore. and it all hinges on the same strategy trump used to confront allegations of sexual misconduct that were leveled against him during the presidential race. and where is jared kushner? our panel will discuss that.

very good day to you. i'm richard lui at msnbc

headquarters. a significant change could be unfolding at the white house. the president's son-in-law, who was once at the forefront of the trump administration, may be retreating to the background. "the new york times" and "washington post" both reporting today on kushner's diminishing role in the west wing. he's still forging ahead with efforts to bring peace to the middle east and still heads up the office of innovation, but kushner's portfolio may be scli shrinking. kushner now reports to chief of staff john kelly. according to "the new york times," again, the reporting coming out today, kelly has even discussed the possibility of kushner and his wife ivanka trump departing the white house by the end of the year. joining us now, kimberly atkins, chief washington reporter for the boston herald. alan smith, insider politics editor. thank you both for being with us. kimberly, you've heard about the reporting. it's