headquarters. a significant change could be unfolding at the white house. the president's son-in-law, who was once at the forefront of the trump administration, may be retreating to the background. "the new york times" and "washington post" both reporting today on kushner's diminishing role in the west wing. he's still forging ahead with efforts to bring peace to the middle east and still heads up the office of innovation, but kushner's portfolio may be scli shrinking. kushner now reports to chief of staff john kelly. according to "the new york times," again, the reporting coming out today, kelly has even discussed the possibility of kushner and his wife ivanka trump departing the white house by the end of the year. joining us now, kimberly atkins, chief washington reporter for the boston herald. alan smith, insider politics editor. thank you both for being with us. kimberly, you've heard about the reporting. it's -- we have more reporting

fresh today, jared kushner, ivanka trump, might they be leaving the white house before the end of the year? >> i wouldn't put my money on them leaving just yet. i mean, if you know president trump, he tends to be mercurial. there are people who are close to him and there will be times that people will fall out of favor and come back in. look at attorney general jeff sessions, one of his closest allies throughout the acampaign and then they had a falling out. i think you might see the same thing here, where john kelly came in and set up a more structured arrangement within the white house, it means that jared kushner has to answer to him as opposed to all these years when he's answering to donald trump, who is not only the president, but also his father-in-law. so he's trying to find his space within this, his role has never really been defined and i think right now, they're trying to figure out exactly where it is. but at the end of the day, he and ivanka are family.

so the idea that they're being pushed out might not be completely right. >> and jared kushner on friday saying he is not going anywhere. you know, when we look at this, alan, i think we might have lost you. not sure if you can hear me. nod if you can. okay, you cannot. kimberly, jared kushner, i was mentioning, he's not going anywhere, but with the mueller investigation moving forward, you just brought up the issue of kelly establishing a command and control in the white house. this as the president, at least according to reporting has had less, if you will, discussions with jared kushner, which he typically did before in the beginning five to six hours. it's interesting that you would say most likely he won't be leaving. >> at the end of the day, it's up to president trump and he's mercurial. he may decide it's better not to have him there.

but everything involving this president, he puts family before anything. that's why jared kushner and ivanka trump are there, that's why his two older sons are running his companies. so i think that is probably a strong bond that they have that probably gives kushner more job security than other folks in the white house, as we've seen a lot of people already depart. but, yes, this mueller investigation is putting increased heat on it because jared kushner is a part of this. he's expected probably to be questioned by mueller's team very soon. there is talk about what role, if any, he had on things, for example, like firing former fbi director james comey. so that will make it uncomfortable during this time. but there are a lot of people in the white house who are going to face that kind of questioning from hope hicks to others. so this is a tough time in the white house. >> and a part of this was, as he was working, according again to the reporting, that kushner was working on getting steve bannon out as well as reince priebus. that did happen in the end. and as we've seen what bannon,

although he's not in the white house, he still does work on the them attics coming out of the white house but from the media perspective. a person that is hitting the ground in places like alabama, supporting candidates that sometimes do work along with the white house, sometimes do not. so if jared kushner does leave, he could still have that dotted line to president trump, that dotted line to the white house. >> you're absolutely right. steve bannon is playing more of a role bigger than just in the media. he still has the president's ear. he still talks to the president and urged him not to walk away from the republican candidate roy moore in alabama, even after all of these awful allegations about molesting a 14-year-old came out. so he plays a very strong, pivotal role in that and jared kushner isn't going to disappear from president trump's life, even if he did end up leaving the white house. >> what does jared kushner's portfolio do, this office of innovation? >> that's a good question.

>> i was just looking at that, what does the office do? >> it's been -- he's been in charge of a number of different things. right now, the biggest one is leading the effort to help foster peace in the middle east between -- >> china? >> -- the israelis and palestinians. he's been involved in china, he's made trips to saudi arabia. he's also tried to address the technology infrastructure of the federal government and trying to update that. so it's been pretty wide and broad and free-wheeling. it looks like they're trying to condense that down a little bit and make it really more defined and less free-wheeling. it sort of resembled his relationship with the president in the beginning, which was very wide and vast, and they're trying to sort of narrow it down a little bit more. but exactly what it is, i think they're still trying to figure that out. >> kimberly, alan -- and sorry, alan for the technical difficulties.

appreciate you both. right now, trump is spending a long holiday weekend at mar-a-lago in florida and getting pushback for some of his comments, "time" magazine saying there's no truth to this tweet. "time" magazine called to say that i was probably going to be named man/person of the year. i took a pass. trump was "time's" person of the year last year after claiming victory in the presidential race. the president is also clashing with some democrats who are telling him he's wrong about the process of picking a new acting director for the powerful consumer financial protection bureau. trump named mick mulvaney to fill the post, but an acting chief was already chosen by the bureau's outgoing director, richard cordray. a legal battle appearing likely to follow to make that decision. let's go to nbc's kelly o'donnell who is live in west palm beach not far from mar-a-lago. as we look at the issue of the

cfpb, the president just reacting maybe about 15 minutes ago, right? tweeting out this, the consumer financial protection bureau or cfpb has been a total disaster, he says in this tweet from about 15 minutes ago. as run by the previous administration's pick. financial institutions have been devastated and unable to properly serve the public. we will bring it back to life. kelly, we don't know the details of what he's alluding to by saying it's a disaster, but certainly controversy there in the white house. >> reporter: well, you just spelled it all out. that's the latest. the president did tweet about this. he obviously has a feel for the fact this has been a brewing controversy, or at least there's some question and some disagreement about the proper way to fill the position. richard cordray, who has been in the job, has left to run for governor in ohio. he's a democrat. this is part of the obama administration legacy, where we see time and time again, the trump team, the president himself, trying to dismantle aspects of what the obama years

brought. and work on behalf of consumers really grew out of the 2008 financial crisis. there are a number of republicans who believe that that bureau, that agency, is not always treating businesses properly. and so there's an ideological conflict here. and the outgoing director did name his own successor, which was a part of the law created to establish the bureau. the white house disagrees and said that this kind of a vacancy falls under another statute which allows the president to name an interim person to watch over this agency. he chose mick mulvaney, the director of the office of management and budget. ultimately it's a senate confirmable position, so this is an interim issue. part of what might be at stake is that if it's a trump person in the role, m.would that agenc be ignored, dismantled, not given the attention that ohio

richa -- that a richard cordray would have. so this is something we'll watch in weeks to come. it will be a fight. the mere inception of this bureau was a fight. so in many ways, it's not a surprise. but we're now talking about a line of succession, a battle over that, which gives you an idea of why this agency is so important. if they're willing to fight about that, there's much more at stake here. richard? >> a lot of folks looking at the epa as a parallel to that, the d-2 thing of the epa thing happening there at the cfpb. next the new move michael flynn has made with his legal team and what it could mean for the russia investigation. plus, the hotly contested senate race in alabama that has been consumed by controversy. we're there to get the pulse of the people as the race enters the home stretch. . did you know there's a specialty cleanser that's gentle enough for everyday use and cleans better than regular toothpaste?

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new headlines surrounding special counsel robert mueller's investigation. "the wall street journal" reporting that mueller and his team are now looking into former national security adviser michael flynn's ties to turkey. they reportedly focused on flynn's work on a $530,000 film deal between flynn's company and a turkish businessman, struck while flynn worked to elect president trump. nbc news confirming that flynn's lawyers have informed trump's legal team they will stop sharing information with trump's lawyers. trump's legal team told "the wall street journal," quote, it was not unexpected to us that

general flynn's lawyers might be entering into discussions with the special counsel about potential pleas. no one should draw the conclusion from that, that this means anything about general flynn cooperating against the president. i'm joined now by the director of security law program at george mason university law school and former senior adviser to bob corker, jameel jafr, and criminal defense attorney and former cia officer jack rice. jameel, there's the issue of the film. we're talking about half a million dollars again, whether mike flynn had disclosed that, big issue here. and second of all, what happened earlier in the week, and that is the move by his legal team, jay suck low saying we didn't think this was going to happen, but don't think it's going to be against the president. where's he at, mike flynn here? >> i think it's a fair point that the white house expected that general flynn would talk to the prosecutors. but the ending of a joint

defense agreement is a big deal. and i think that it does suggest that flynn is in conversations, unlike paul manafort, to make a deal with the prosecutors. the white house team has admitted as much. and that's a concern, because if he's going to make a deal, he's going to talk about everything he knows. and if there's anything for the president, that will come out. the white house legal team's view is, there's nothing problematic for the president, nothing to see here, no big deal. >> is flynn flipping here, jack? >> yes. it does appear that he is. frankly, that's not a shock. if we look at the president sayi saying that papadopoulos was nobody, that he was nothing, the problem is that flynn is somebody. he's somebody fundamentally involved in white house operations, fundamentally involved in what was going on to the run-up to those operations. and so the idea that he could flip, he flips on everybody. so that's one thing he has to be concerned about, the president has to be looking at this. his people have to be looking at

this, and they need to be concerned about it. and frankly so do all the other surrogates that are out there, the kushners, et cetera. because of what this could potentially mean. >> the question is, is it because specifically of the film, the new reporting we're getting from politico, jameel, or is really this half a million dollar film that we got the reporting on, just the tip of the turkey iceberg? because this particular film was about being critical of fethullah gulen, the cleric allegedly trying to take the leadership of turkey. >> it's a controversial question whether gulen was involved in the coup attempt, how involved he is. obviously the turkish government believes he was at the heart of it. there's some debate about that. and mike flynn obviously very concerned about the turkish government before he ended up lobbying for them. and the real issue as a legal matter, this question, did he register as a foreign agent for the turkish government? and if it's true that he didn't

and if the government has evidence to prove that, that's going to be significant leverage for them to make him cut a deal. and then the question is, what else does he know? what else is relative to the investigation? if the president is right, nothing to see here, no big deal, but obviously if he has something that the prosecutors want, that's a cause for concern. >> jack, did it stand out to you that jay sekulow, again from the legal team of michael flynn, making that statement the way he said it and did it stand out to you the timing of it? >> yeah. oh, no, it did. the one issue about the half a million dollars here, is this part of a money laundering question? is this money being thrown at flynn to gain his additional support? if we look at what happened with paul manafort, the 18 counts on that end, the potential is not just the question of whether or not flynn was involved in the run-up to the possibility of kidnapping and the terms of gulen. the possibility here could be money that was being driven at

him and whether or not he disclosed it. so not just obstruction, but money laundering tied to this too. that's one of the things the mueller team is looking at and they are very good at it. >> jameel, this half a million dollars, there's really no film here, or if there is, this is a way of following money from michael flynn to the turkish government? >>. >> in the manafort indictment you saw money laundering charges, structuring charges, you saw the question of foreign registration. all these things are on the table. the question is, how much leverage does the government think they have, what facts and what can they prove? so what will he agree to plead do, if that's what's going on and what will he get in return if are the plea deal? typically they look for substantial cooperation going forward. he knows a lot about what's going on. if there's a problem here, he's going to know a lot about it. >> jack, hope hicks will be having to address the mueller

team's questions. jared kushner not part of that as of yet from what we understand. though he has gone to the hill. when we look at the developments of last week, we have the reporting of this film, this half million dollar film, again, that according to "the wall street journal," the flynn group trying to conceal its role in the documentary, saying, we don't want anyone to know the flynn intel group has anything to do with this. evidently, they're trying to hide this. where do you think we're arcing towards in the investigation when we're getting these sorts of headlines? >> well, if we look at where we are right now, and i think about this in my own practice in the past where i've had to sit down with clients to do something called a proffer. i'm sitting down with the fbi, with the department of homeland security or somebody else, you're actually having to sit down and essentially gut yourself on the table in front of them and lay out what it is that you have. in the end, what this is about is not just about mike flynn. this is about mike flynn's kid. and the idea that they can put leverage on mike flynn and say,

we will go after your son and we will, and they have the ability to do that and they've done that in the past. they can also say, you know what, we maybe can hold off on going after your son if you cooperate. but what flynn has to be able to do right now, he has to establish that he has value, that he actually knows a lot. and they're going to say, really? okay, what have you got? and do not hold back. this is an obstruction question and we can come after you and we can come after you with gusto. so if you've got something, you better put it at the table. and let me tell you something, this is intimidating stuff to sit in a room with a half a dozen guys all staring at you, knowing a lot, having a lot, and they want to say, what do you know, and by the way, you think you know who else is intimidated right now? all of the other potential co-defendants that are saying, what did i just tell the fbi during this investigatory process? >> and this is like the "justice league." these are not small timers, not

medium timers. these are big timers when we look at the legal brains robert mueller has brought together. jack rice, jameel jafr, thank you both. >> thank you. next, how egypt is responding to one of the deadliest terror attacks in its history. we have the latest from cairo straight ahead. us. it's what this country is made of. but right now, our bond is fraying. how do we get back to "us"? the y fills the gaps. and bridges our divides. donate to your local y today. because where there's a y,

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and welcome back, the death toll from friday's terror attack at a mosque in egypt has now risen to 305. a warning to viewers, images from the scene are graphic and may be disturbing in this report. another 128 people were injured when the attackers opened fire during worship during the mosque in the north sinai region. bill neely is in cairo. bill, how is the egyptian government responding today? >> reporter: well, good afternoon, richard, from a city and country that's still in deep shock. after this massacre has come the military response. egypt's president sis. >> has sent his warplanes into the sky, targeting vehicles that were involved in the attack and terrorist arms and ammunition dumps. the death toll a few hours ago

went up dramatically to an astonishing 305. 27 of them children. more than 120 people are still in the hospitals, including here in cairo. many of them very badly injured. and we've been learning more about these attacks. we've been talking to a teacher who lives in a nearby town. he said that the gunmen were firing almost uninterrupted for 45 minutes. horrendous. he says he knows between 20 and 30 of the dead personally. the egyptian government says up to 30 gunmen were involved in this attack. they arrived in five off-road vehicles. they positioned themselves right around the mosque at every window and at the main doors. and it's a small mosque. nearly everyone inside was either killed or injured. it was absolutely ruthless. it began with a suicide bomber blowing himself up. all the gunmen were wearing black uniforms and unfurled the black flag of isis at the

beginning of the attack. that terror group has not officially claimed responsibility for this attack, but no one here is in any doubt that isis was responsible. it's very active in the sinai peninsula. couple of years ago, it blew up a russian passenger plane over the sinai, killing all 224 on board. it has on numerous occasions attacked security forces, killing dozens in the sinai. it's also attacked coptic christians across egypt, also in churches. but this is the first time isis has attacked muslims in a mosque. sufi muslims, a mystical sect within islam, but there's deep anger here that isis has targeted muslims. the real question is, will that backlash stop isis gaining ground in the sinai peninsula? for president sisi, this is a big problem. okay, you can have a military response today, but what about the coming months? because this has been going on for years. he hasn't got a grip on it.

he stands for stability and security. there are neither in the sinai peninsula. big problem for him. three days of mourning here, we're into the end of day number two now. there have been mass funerals, mass graves sadly in that town near the mosque and massive anger here in egypt about what has happened. richard, back to you. >> absolutely horrific. bill neely, thank you. next the hot u.s. senate race in alabama. will roy moore's controversy sway voters toward his democratic challenger? we'll get the pulse of that debate next.

welcome back, thanks for sticking with us on this saturday. the u.s. navy has identified that three sailors who lost their lives in a plane crash in the philippines sea on wednesday. the remains of lieutenant steven combs, airman matthew kill aftry and airman apprentice were recovered thursday. more backlash for charlie rose following sexual misconduct allegations. two of his journalism awards have been rescinded. he was fired by cbs news and his show on pbs was also canceled. bargain hunters kicked off their shopping with black friday deals. with the jobless rate a low, analysts are expecting a healthy shopping holiday saeb.

right now, football fans in alabama are cheering for one of two big in-state rivals. the crimson tide are taking on the auburn tigers in the biggest game of the year. while that game is dividing homes, the hotly contested alabama senate is doing the same. republican candidate roy moore is facing sexual misconduct allegations, all of which he has strongly denied. but it's giving new life to the democrat doug jones who hit moore earlier today for not making a public appearance for nine straight days. >> we're talking about the issues that people in alabama have in common and i think that that's the most important thing. when you can't talk about those issues, you stay under wraps. >> nbc's vaughn hillyard is live in auburn, alabama. you were the one there that was doing the interview there with, again, doug jones there. but tell us what's happening with the race and what folks are saying on the side of today's iron bowl?

>> hey, richard, yeah. we're 17 days out from the special election, slated to happen on december 12th. doug jones was out here tailgating and at the game. roy moore, this is his ninth day without making a public appearance. a campaign official does tell me that he will be holding an event in ft. payne, the northeastern part of the state on monday. tomorrow doug jones will be holding an event in birmingham. but i did catch up with charles bar barkley, the basketball legend. auburn unveiled the statue of him. he's a graduate of the school. we caught up with him after the statue unveiling and asked him about the race. charles barkley considers himself a long-time republican. he's even mulled running for governor. he backed john kasich in the 2016 presidential election. i asked him about this race. this is what he told me. >> everybody's going crazy over this sexual allegations.

roy moore to me, when he brought in steve bannon, should have been disqualified. i don't understand. to me, how can you have a guy who's running with a white separatist, running for a political office? you got a lot of black people in the state who are amazing people, able to run a campaign with your chief advocate who is a white nationalist, that should disqualify roy moore way before this women stuff came up. >> barkley went on to call roy moore himself a white separatist and said he would back doug jones in this race, the democrat. it goes to show what this election is coming down to, it's whether doug jones can pull off enough republicans in the race. many that we talked to say they're not sure if they'll vote at all, or if they would be able to gather the gumption to vote for a democrat. many of them saying they haven't voted for one in their entire lives. >> we'll call you vaughn "scoop" hilliard. you got charles barkley and the

democrat who is running against roy moore, doug jones. thanks so much. let's bring in our panel, the republican strategist and managing director of fp 1 strategies and lisa green, author of "on your case." lisa, we have the reporting adding to the debate happening in alabama, the voters are saying this is 40 years old, why are we talking about it now? i'm still going to vote for roy moore. basically trump also echoing the very same idea, the criticism of donald trump's reaction so far to roy moore's allegations, again of being a sexual predator of under-aged children, is that he's basically defending himself. this is why he's reacting the way he is. lisa? >> well, i don't think we'll ever reach a point, richard, where these kind of allegations are free from controversy. but here's what we do know. they come at a time where

american women are saying, i've had enough and are coming forward across the board. not just in the political world, but obviously in hollywood. you mentioned charlie rose a couple of minutes ago. and what we're seeing now is a sea change from women who felt they needed to remain silent, to women who are coming forward. the roy moore accusers, who i believe were reached out to by "the washington post," had what they alleged to be the incidents with moore at a time where women didn't feel comfortable speaking. they were ashamed. they may have thought it was their fault. and the allegations come now at a time where the environment is wholly different and we see the lingering effects, the resonance that's having in this race in alabama. >> well, the reporting adding to what i've just discussed coming out today in "the new york times," to you on this, lauren, is that donald trump was not happy with his own daughter's reaction. again, this reporting coming out today. this is what it says in "the new york times."

he vented his annoyance when his daughter ivanka castigated mr. moore by saying there was a special place in hell for people who prey on children. this according to three staff members who heard his comments. so it looks like not only despite it tearing apart his own party, lauren, it's also, at least by this reporting, causing some ripples in his own family. >> well, ivanka's right. there is a special place in hell for people that do this. you know, i think i've seen reporting today kind of indicating, oh, is this a big rift or something like that? you know, i would hope at least in their family that ivanka can share her own opinion. i understand the president's possible frustration because i believe that comment has been turned into a campaign d.ad. but the reality of the situation is this, these alleged crimes happened at a time when women does not feel that they would be believed. think about a 14-year-old. think about how vulnerable she is. >> 14-year-old girl.

>> yeah, exactly. a 14-year-old girl. women and especially this young woman, did not feel that they would be believed. so of course nothing came out before now. again, what the people who are standing behind roy moore in alabama are failing to consider is the fact that we are at a watershed moment in our history where we're finally, finally, having a discussion about this. and it's important and it's to be taken very, very seriously. >> lauren, what does it mean for the party itself? you have mitch mcconnell who says it he's elected, he'll try to remove him from the senate. you have a president that's saying, i do support roy moore and his old friend steve bannon also saying, stick with roy moore. >> i think the most important thing to consider here, should he become elected, i do think that we need to take steps to investigate whether or not we can expel him, to see if there would be support for that. because not only -- if you want to put the heinous nature of these allegations aside, fine.

then let's talk about the impact on the party in 2018. that suddenly republicans are going to have to wear this around their neck. it will be in every campaign ad. it will be something that is a really serious issue for the party to deal with in 2018. so i don't agree with the people that say, we need to elect him to get tax reform done. i don't think that's, a, first of all, a reason to elect him, but, b, i don't think that's necessarily going to be something that's needed. and i do think, in terms of the party and i think mitch mcconnell's right, as is the chairman of the nrsc to look to the longer term consequences of future elections. >> lisa, what does it say? we were listening to vaughn hillyard speaking with alabamans at the iron bowl, and some of those who did talk with vaughn said, again, i mentioned the 40 years old, why are we talking about it now? the other is, we need to maintain a majority in the senate. they're also looking at the issue of a supreme court justice

nominee potentially as well. what does it say about the electorate and where we are today in accepting what is very serious allegations of pedophilia and as well as the idea of politics and that may be more important? >> i'm definitely going to leave the political analysis to lauren. but i think sthhe and i can agr that character ought to matter when it comes to elected officials, that we still want to be a country where people can look up to their elected officials. and where we've really crossed a line now is that allegations of harassment across the board, in many different fields and there are many more, service industries, waitresses, retail, that have days of reckoning yet to come. that's a part of the political process now and i don't think we'd be reporting about a close -- or hearing reporting about a close race in alabama were it not for a real sea change in the way women and now men are understanding the culture and the price some women have had to pay for working,

living in a world where men could act with impunity. >> and for congress, as they debate this right now, lauren, is the crucible here that they do more than the sexual harassment vote that they're about to undertake this week which most think is going to pass? they need to do more, establish higher standards, not only for themselves but for corporate america, for instance? >> absolutely. i think that we need to do more. if you're talking about anything relating to private business, it's important to be mindful of the separation between the government and private business, but i think especially on capitol hill, they have to do more. you've seen members of congress come forward. many, many members of their staff, but, yes, they have to go further, absolutely. >> we'll see how many folks get on that train. expect that to pass, the bill related to sexual harassment. thanks so much very much. appreciate your time. coming up, the changing justice department under attorney general jeff sessions. criminal justice reform, immigration, and civil rights are the major issues on the

table. we'll dive into all of that next.

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that is a lie. let me be clear. i have at all times conducted myself honorably and in a manner consistent with the high standards and responsibilities of the office of attorney general, which i revere. i spent 15 years in that department. i love that department. >> attorney general jeff sessions there. quietly changing the department that he says he loves. sessions recused himself from the russia investigation, but has been making controversial changes to his agency to advance the president's agenda. policy shifts include rolling back obama era criminal justice reform, by cracking down on sanctuary cities, ordering fellow prosecutors to pursue the most serious charges and the toughest penalties. he recently appeared to reverse course on civil rights enforcement, stating that a 1964 anti-discrimination law did not extend to the protection of lgbt workers. that's just part of it. republican strategist lauren back with us, also james

peterson, msnbc contributor and host of the podcast the remix on whyy. i want to go to some "washington post" reporting, they were describing the same dynamic here. i'll read partially from their article. they say sessions often has a particular question during meetings with his senior leadership. where is the person from? when officials tell him a suspect was born and lives in the united states, he typically has a follow-up. to what country does his family trace its lineage? and while there are no reasons to want to know that information, some officials familiar with the inquiry said the questions struck them as revealing. what do you make of this idea of where this attorney general is moving what was progress or accomplishments from the previous administration? >> well, i read about this myself this week. and what i'm seeing is that the department of justice under attorney general sessions has been very, very effective quietly at rolling back the

incremental progress made during the obama administration, but also attacking various justice efforts on a number of different fronts, including the lgbt community, including removing protections for transgender folks at work, including rolling back some of the efforts around voting rights, including sort of becoming much more aggressive, as you mentioned, already prosecutorial efforts in terms of crime and the war on drugs. sort of standing down in terms of consent decrees and oversight for law enforcement across the nation. there are a number of different ways in which sessions' department of justice has become very, very effective at rolling back the progress that's been made over the last five to seven years or so. >> lauren, along with what peterson is bringing up, and he does have anor article out on n news.com, but what i was quoting from "the washington post" and the way this attorney general, according to their reporting, goes about asking about those persons of interest.

>> well, that's not something that should be done. and i do think, sure, you know, jeff sessions is making his mark on the justice department, but what i find to be that he is undoing some progress on some things, issues you've seen conservative support wholeheartedly in the past few years, especially something like criminal justice reform. you've got groups on the right like right on crime. arthur brooks at aei did an event with president obama at the white house. conservatives in particular have come together to support criminal justice reform efforts, and many feel they're very, very needed. i was working in new hampshire in 2015 and 2016 and i saw the ramp-up of the opioid crisis firsthand, and i think it's really important that we're considering things like drug courts instead of repeated incarcerations penalties for some of these folks who are really just trying to get out of the cycle. i do this jeff sessions is making his mark on the justice

department and i am a business disappointed because i think we've made really positive conservative reforms in the past few years. >> one of the things said by this attorney general is related specifically to black lives matter, and i want to play a little of what was said. take a listen to that. >> how many african-americans do you have on your senior staff? >> i -- do not have senior staff member at this time that's an african-american. >> do you believe that there is a movement of african-americans that identify themselves as black identity extremists and what does that movement do? >> there are groups that do have an extraordinary commitment to their racial identity, and some have transformed themselves even into violent activists. >> dr. peterson, representative bass, in that line of questions then said if there are black identity extremists according to the doj report, there are white

identity extremists and he said he was unaware of that not sieg seeming to remember the kkk and other equivalence to that potential idea brought up in the court. what do you make of what he said in that back and forth, dr. peterson? >> extremely disingenuous to me, richard, given the fact we have a regular stream of white supremacists, violent activity that the department of justice has to take a look at bp we know about charleston but there are other instances we've seen things play out in violent activity. the idea you would edwhquate th with black lives matter is troublesome. this whole concept i poked fun at, where i write about the fact i direct african culture program, love black culture and music as a way to think more critically why this is not sort of an equitable way of

approaching the ways in which race operates in our society. the reality is, when you look over the course of the obama years we've seen a steady uptick in sort of white nationalism and white violence coming out of these sort of racialized discourses and idea oles ologisa department of justice not ready to admit those exist means the department of justice is not actually a department of justice. there's a thing called racial just is as well, richard. doesn't seem as if attorney general sessions is in any way addressing that in the nation right now. >> 20 seconds to you? >> i would tend to agree. i think the comments you played from jeff sessions were troubling, to say the least, and i do think it's important that we realize that these issues in our country right now are very real, and that we have officials that are in place unbiased and can address them. >> thank you both on this topic. coming up, after black friday and before kribeler

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today is small business saturday when shoppers are around the country encouraged to patronize local mom and pop shops. a gallup poll found americans actually like small businesses more. 70% have a great deal or a lot

of confidence in small business businesses. contrast, 21% a positive feeling of big retailers. more on the significance of small business saturday. >> hi, richard. we got through black friday. it's almost cyber monday, but today is small business saturday the day we should be thinking about the small independent stores in our community. i want you to think about this. when we shop online, dollars go wherever that store is. right? when we shop at a big box, but not as much as shopping small business. when you think about the kind of community you want to live in, that's when you should think where you're spending your retail dollars. small business saturday has been around since 2010. last year had about 112 million

people shop small. supposed to get bigger this year. there are 7,000 communities around the country that are going to be celebrating small business start, doing all kinds of things like free parking for people, or events like runs or maybe a few communities that have contests. get lottery tickets and win a prize at the end. etsy has pop-up shops in five cities around the country. today, small business saturday. i encourage everyone to go out there, join the more than 100 million other people and shop small. including you, richard. >> okay, j.j. i will do it. i always listen to you. by the way, her show, "your business" sponsored by american express, founding partner of small business saturday. you can catch a new episode sunday, 7:30 a.m. that wraps it up for us right here on msnbc. stay with us or updates and

breaking news as it happens. follow me on twitter, instagram and facebook. let me know what you're thinking and what you like to hear about. for now, joy reid is next. you have a great saturday evening. i'm suspecting that because donald trump protected him so much, he knows something really significant. >> i don't think this goes anywhere other than to michael flynn and potentially his son. welcome to "a.m. joy." this thanksgiving yet another signal that special counsel robert mueller's investigation into russia's interference in our presidential election continues to pick up steam. nbc news confirming information first reported by the "new york times" that lawyers for trump's former national security adviser michael flynn cut ties