also be sure to join david gura at 7:00. but first, it's "meet the press," everybody. this sunday, sexual harassment, a national turning point or is it? after refusing to back alabama's roy moore. >> the president said if the allegations are true then roy moore should step aside. >> president trump decides to stand by his man. >> i can tell you one thing for sure. we don't need a liberal person in there. a democrat. >> while democrats face their own crisis. do they force out a popular senator who admits to inappropriate behavior as well as their longest serving house member. and what message are they sending to women if they don't. my guest this morning is house minority leader, nancy pelosi and anita hill, whose treatment nearly three decades ago is bere-examined. plus do republicans really want to go into the 2018 mid terms having raised taxes on parts of the middle class?

i will ask republican senator rod portman of ohio. and then former national security adviser, michael flynn, did he just cut a deal to cooperate with the mueller probe and what can that mean for the russia investigation? joining me for insight and analysis are katy tur, hugh hewitt. host of the salem radio network. heather mcgee and "washington post" columnist michael gersen. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. i hope everyone is having a safe and healthy thanksgiving weekend. there are moments where as americans we have been forced to examine our attitudes and ourselves, vietnam, civil rights, gay rights. in politics we are facing sexual harassment. revulsion in what we have

learned and uncertainty of what to do going forward. is it time to demand resignations of those accused of harassment? is it better to support an accused child molester of your own party than to have the other party win an election. what should the party do of one of it own who is accused of unacceptable behavior? how closely should we examine a former president? and how do we reckon with a sitting president who has been accused by more than a dozen women of outright misconduct? in short, after another week of lurid stories about powerful men taking advantage of women, it's clear we are experiencing a cultural shift in how we think about sexual harassment and assault. what is less clear is where we draw the line. >> growing controversy surrounding charlie rose. >> the harvey weinstein scandal has emboldened victims.

>> revolt against sexual harassment and assault may be a backlash after donald trump's 2016 victory when millions of voters overlooked more than dozen allegations of sexual misconduct. >> you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> you can grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> and put mr. trump in the white house, triggered thousands of women to begin an anti-trump movement that flexed its muscles. this moment serves as a reckoning of sorts for the democrats. after three decades where party mens -- members overlooked sexual misconduct against bill clinton. now each party is facing a test. for republican voters in alabama senate candidate roy moore is accused of sexual misconduct by nine women including leigh corfman who she said molested her when she was 14. >> to seemingly embracing him.

>> mr. president, is an accused child molester better than a democrat? >> he denies it. look, he did flies it. >> democrats are facing their own test. senator al franken has been accused of forcibly kissing radio host lee ann tweeding on a uso tour in 2006. he also took this picture. he released a new statement on thursday after three new allegations of unwanted touching. i'm a warm person. i hug people. i have learned from recent stories that in some of those encounters i crossed a line for some women. no democratic senator so far has called on franken to resign. then john conyers, accused of paying off a former employee who said she was fired because she refused to provide sexual favors. new york congressman kathleen rice became the first and only congressional democrat to call on conyers to resign. >> saying we will have these allegations against politicians go before an ethics committee that can sometimes take a couple

of years -- no offense to my colleagues on the ethics committee, but that's not real. that's not real. and that's not accountability. >> democrats are still hesitant to criticize bill clinton only willing to say that by today's standards they might be calling for his ouster. >> my point is that the tolerance we had 25 years ago which was allowed 25 years ago, will not be tolerated today. >> i don't think you can rework history. i think if it happened today if any president did that today, they'd have to resign. >> joining me now is nancy pelosi of california. leader pelosi, welcome back to "meet the press." happy thanksgiving weekend. >> happy thanksgiving to you and congratulations on 70 years. >> thank you. thank you for that. we're now 71. let me -- i will go back in our way back machine here. here is you on "meet the press" asked specifically about allegations against president clinton. here is what you said back in

1998. >> why the silence when there have been these allegations about president clinton? >> i would like to say that i think the women in america are speaking out about what they think about this whole situation and the women of america are just like other americans in that they value fairness. they value privacy and do not want to see a person with uncontrolled power, uncontrolled time, uncontrolled, unlimited money investigating the president of the united states. >> that back then -- both senator gillibrand and mayor de blasio were making the argument that cultures change and today same allegations probably would have led democrats perhaps like yourself to call for his resignation. do you agree with this idea that this is a generational change? >> i think it is a generational change.

let me just say that the concern we had then was that they were impeaching the president of the united states. and for something that had nothing to do with the performance of his duties and trying to take him out for that reason. but let's go forward. let's go forward. i think that something -- incorrode -- incredible, wonderful is happening now. it's 100 years, almost 100 years since women got the right to vote. here we are almost 100 years later and something very transformative is happening. that is women are saying zero tolerance, no more. we are going to speak out on it. this is so wholesome, so refreshing, so different. >> why do you think the reaction was different by women on bill clinton? i say that because it does seem as if frankly when you watch some of the reaction by the president in defending roy moore or overlooking the allegations against roy moore that were you putting politics ahead of your

personal disgust? >> we are talking about a child molester. we are talking about a child molester. >> president clinton was accused of being a sexual predator. and even rape at one point. >> why don't we talk about how we go forward? nobody is proud of president clinton's behavior at the time. but he was being impeached -- >> i think the concern is that we allowed the erosion -- the reason we're at this moment and the reason it got worse is because of the way we handled it collectively then. do you buy that? >> no. i buy that the election of president trump really as your presenter said earlier just evoked a response. so many women -- this is really important i think to note because i have heard from so many women in the last few months -- in fact, i heard around the time of anita hill so many women have had a bad experience. now they are saying i have had a bad experience and now a person who possibly engaged in that activity is the president of the united states. i'm speaking out.

i think as your presenter said earlier -- >> it was me. >> was that your voice? >> that was my voice. >> then you had it right when you said harvey didn't evoke this. the election of president trump evoked what happened to harvey and now everybody is served notice. let's go forward and let's talk about -- okay, let's learn from past decisions and go forward. >> so define zero tolerance. you said there's a zero tolerance. john conyers, what does that mean for him? in or out? >> we are strengthened by due process just because someone is accused and is it one accusations or two? john coniers is an icon in our country. he has done a great deal to protect women. violence against women act. right wing is praising him for his work on that and did great work on that. the fact is as john reviews his case which he knows -- which i don't, i believe he will -- i

believe that he -- may i finish my sentence? he will do the right thing. >> is the right thing what? >> he will do the recognize thing in terms of what he knows about his situation that he is entitled to due process but women are entitled to due process, as well. >> he took advantage of a situation where he had the rules of congress -- i know you guys want to change the rules. he got to hide his settlement. his accusers had to go through all sorts of craziness. why is he entitled to new due process in this case? >> we are talking about what we have heard. i have asked the ethics committee to review that. he said he will be -- he will cooperate with the review. excuse me questionable >> do you believe his accusers? >> i don't know who they are. they have not come forward. >> you don't know if you believe the accusations? >> that is for the ethics committee to review. i believe he understands what is at stake.

he will do the right thing. but all of the nondisclosure agreements have to go. by the way, some of them are there to protect the victim because they don't -- they didn't want some of it to be public. that is over. in other words, if the victim wants to be private she can be. he or she can be. >> i guess it goes back to what is this line? what is a fireable offense? you say it is zero tolerance. >> yes. >> what does that mean if you are saying john conyers who already had due process gets to stay. >> as i said, we have asked for the ethics committee to review that and he i believe will do the right thing. >> what about senator franken? >> i don't believe you can equate senator franken with roy moore. it is two different things. so let's be -- >> you would accept an apology from al franken if there are no other accusers? if all we know is what we know? >> his accusers have to accept an apology. the victims have some say in all of this, as well.

that has happened in the past as people have accepted an apology as is coming forth now. that i see it in the press. we didn't know because there was a nondisclosure agreement to protect the victims. sometimes they didn't want to be public. sometimes they did. now they will have their choice. but this is about going forward. when we go forward we will address all of that. we have to address it for every work place in the country not just in the congress of the united states. and that's very important. a good deal of that would be done by the judiciary committee. we know that john would take that into consideration. >> you have one member called -- gregory meeks has called for him to be withdrawn as ranking member. isn't that in your power? can't you decide he should be suspended as ranking member of all committees? >> this all happened during the thanksgiving break. when we come together at the beginning of this week i think he will do the right thing. >> you will not unilaterally make that decision? >> i'm not sharing that with you

right now. what i'm saying is this a big distraction. it very, very important. do you know that the beginning of the women's movement elizabeth katie stanton would -- lived in seneca falls and she was here down -- she was citing the examples of family domestic violence and that was one of the motivators for her to advance the cause of women. this is as old as civilization probably, in terms of our history, in terms of the women's movement, one of the motivators. 100 years after her fight for the women to vote we will clear the deck on this. i'm here to talk about something also transformative and that is this tax bill. that the republicans have put forth. >> and i want to get into this. there seems to be a bit of a political paralysis here in trying to figure this out. >> it isn't. it isn't. we're moving -- this week we will pass bipartisan legislation for this behavior.

for antidiscrimination, behavior. "a." "b," we will take the larger issue which has to both houses of congress for ending the nondisclosure, ending who pays, all of the concerns that we have about this. i don't think that -- i think that we want to give people hope. this is going to be addressed. women have spoken out. their concerns will be addressed in a way that i think will give comfort as well as end of this behavior because it's disgusting, it's repulsive and has to be zero tolerance. >> will you support congress retroactively making public all of these private settlements that taxpayer dollars have been used for? >> not necessarily. sometimes the victim does not want that to happen. >> if the victim wants it public will you side with the victim? >> yes, here is the thing. this is important. there is a question as to whether the ethics committee can get testimony if you have signed a nondisclosure agreement.

we are saying we think the ethics committee can but if you don't think it can we will pass a resolution that the ethics committee can. there is no -- i don't want anybody thinking there is any challenge here to our changing a law and see how people when we know more about the individual cases because you know what our biggest strength is, due process that protects the rights of the victim. whatever the outcome is everybody knows there was due process. >> i got to end it there. i appreciate you coming on. >> you mean we are not talking about taxes? you have fallen into the place. they are doing something that is going to increase the debt enormously. it will be a job killer and it is going to raise taxes on middle class and has a big impact on individual lives of all americans and we should be spending more time on that. >> you think this other issue isn't as serious?

>> i think it's enormous -- look as a woman, a mother of four daughters i think it's enormously important. i think we have to have a balance in how we go forward. >> i struggle with this every day. >> this is giving them cover. there are so many reasons we should be concerned about the republican majority in congress. >> i am going to be asking a republican across the aisle some of these questions in a few minutes. i have to leave it there. i appreciate it. >> that's disappointing. >> i wish i had more time. >> i want to say one more thing. >> go to my bosses. >> i want to say one more thing. i want to thank our firefighters and first responders in california for what they did in the fires. our thanksgiving we prayed for them as a blessing to us and wishing their families the best. >> thank you. i appreciate it. joining me now from the other side of the aisle republican senator rob portman of ohio. welcome back to the show, sir. >> chuck. good to be back. >> i want to start with roy moore. i know you said you do not believe he should be a candidate.

you have called for him to step aside. you said you believe the accusers. the president of the united states says in a new tweet says the last thing we need in alabama and u.s. senate is a schumer/pelosi puppet who is weak on crime, weak on the border. bad for our military and our great vets, bad for the second amendment and wants to raise the taxes to the sky. his words there in the tweet. jones would be a disaster. do you agree with the president that it is better if alabamians elect someone accused of being a child molester over a democratic simply due to ideology? >> well, i stand with what i said earlier which is i think it would be best if he stepped aside. by the way, i think the president said that initially. i think that would be better for the country. the election is in a few weeks or a couple of weeks. and there is a possibility for folks to do write in candidates. we will see. i think it would be best if he stepped aside. >> if you were a voter in alabama what would you do? jeff flake said he would vote democrat if roy moore was the only other option.

>> i would probably vote for a republican but it wouldn't be roy moore. >> you would cast the vote knowing it probably throws the election. the more republicans split their vote -- you are okay if a democrat gets elected as long as it is not roy moore? >> as you know i endorsed luther strange. i thought he would have been a terrific senator. he is my colleague now. i never endorsed roy moore. when the allegations came out i did say as the women went on the record i thought there was a lot of credibility in what they were saying and i didn't find the response very credible. that's how came up with my position. >> scott jennings, republican strategist who i think lives on the border of ohio and kentucky so you may know him very well. said this in the "new york times" about this situation. either we're saddled with a democrat in a seat that ought to be republican or we're saddled with a brand anvil that's going to drag down the president and plunge the senate into immediate turmoil when he gets there. is it worse for the republican

party if roy moore wins or loses? >> i don't know. i'll let the talking heads like scott talk about that. what i do think is that it would be best if he were to step aside. we have an opportunity as nancy pelosi just said to pass tax reform. i think she has misrepresented everything in that. in that tax reform proposal assage example. we have great opportunities here. and we'll move forward with these regardless of what happens. but i think it would be best if he stepped aside. >> senator franken, on the other side of the aisle, he called for a ethnics investigation into himself. i think you concurred with that. what do you believe should be the threshold of whether he should serve or not? >> the ethics investigation ought to go forward and we ought to get to all of the facts. even with john conyers as we talked about earlier. i hope we see action on that even this week. we will see what the facts are.

i don't know the facts. i don't think all of those are public yet. i think all of this as difficult as it is in some respects for our society is really important because i think it will end up changing people's attitudes and changing our culture. so i'm glad it's being discussed. i think it should be more transparent. i think if you accept taxpayer funds for a settlement that should be transparent. >> would you support retroactively making all of these settlements public when you guys address this situation in congress? >> yes. i would. i would. i think it is outrageous that taxpayers are asked to pay these settlements in the first place. yeah, we should make transparent what happened. >> do you believe the accusers of donald trump? >> well, as you know at the end of the election when the tape came out that you played earlier i chose to support a different candidate than donald trump because of that.

so you've got to have a process. i agree due process is important but we have to be sure that victims have the right to be able to come forward, that there is transparency with regard to the situation in the house and senate. it's outrageous to me over the years there have been taxpayer funding used for settlements without any notification or transparency. i think it is wrong the way victims are treated because they have to go through a laborious process. it is true some victims would prefer to keep it private. that is fine. they should have a right to do that but they should also have an expedited process to be able to bring their complaints. >> between the election of donald trump after the "access hollywood" tape and roy moore in alabama, if voters send roy moore to the senate and i know you want to send him to the ethics investigation if he gets sent to the senate, but what does this say about our moral line? >> well, it's a fair question. i think voters care a lot about

policy issues. president talked about that with the tweet you mentioned that includes tax reform and how you deal with debt and deficit and a lot of issues that are important to people on the social side, issues like abortion and gun control. so voters are going to make the decisions based on a lot of different factors. one certainly is character. i think american people deserve to have the highest standards of ethical conduct by their elected officials. period. >> but if the voters send back people that you believe are ethically or morally unsuited for the senate do you believe the senate should expel those folks or do you think the voters have to respect the right of the voters on that one? >> well, it's an important question. that is why you have an ethics committee. i served on the ethics committee when i was in the house. i went through that same process. the person who is subject of that ethics committee process, by the way, was defeated in his re-election because of the

information that we were able to provide to the voters of that district. so i think there is a way for the ethics process to work. it needs to be expedited and as i said we need to get moving on it quickly. it needs to provide due process and transparency so that the voters know what the situation is. >> i have to ask you about an issue that impacts the state of ohio. it involves an ohioan. the protection board going to -- it used to be run by kourd -- corddry and i believe he's likely to run for governor. he designated deputy director and the president has designated now i guess an acting director. who is in charge come monday morning? the current deputy is acting director or do you believe president trump's decision to put mulvaney there is legal? >> my understanding is richard corddry resigned a week earlier than he was planning to in order to put his deputy in charge.

you know, trying to circumvent the normal process until a new director is confirmed. my hope is not to play those games and the interim process would involve mulvaney and then get a new director. >> mick mulvaney basically mocked consumer financial protection board. is he the right person to put in charge? you have been budget director. can you do both jobs? it's unrealistic, right? >> i'm sure there will be somebody working operations day to day. look, chuck, you know the consumer financial bureau has come under a lot of pressure because of the way it was established. it has no accountability. unlike other boards and oversight organization there is no appropriation so no way for congress or the voters through members of congress to affect the decisions. it is very unusual.

they get funds directly from federal reserve. there is no border commission, nothing bipartisan. there is an issue about the director and whether the president has ability to replace the director. all of those are issues. i have introduced legislation to provide an inspector general. they have no inspector general for example. it is an unusual organization. i think it is inconsistent with the accountability in the federal government otherwise. i think that is a big problem. i think there needs to be a new director confirmed. we should do that quickly. >> i am going to leave it there. a lot to get to today. we don't always get to all of it. >> since nancy pelosi can i just talk about the middle class tax cuts are in there. economic growth is in there. it's -- >> do you acknowledge that not everybody's taxes are going down? some in the middle class will see total tax bill go up when you account for state and local, as well. >> it doubles standard deduction up to 24 grand for a family and

doubles the child tax credit. lowers the rates to the point that in ohio the average is 2375 bucks for the median income family. everybody in every group will see tax cuts and so it's just been misrepresented. i hope people will go online and look for themselves. go on to the joint committee on taxation's website. jct.gov. that's the one that's official. check out what your own situation is and you will see substantial middle class tax cuts for family of two making 50 grand per year. 20% tax cut. >> i let you and both leader pelosi go probably far too long than my executive producer wanted me to. senator portman, thank you very much. i will talk to anita hill whose accusations of sexual harassment against clarence thomas were met with skepticism at the time.

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well, those were well, those are some interesting interviews here. hugh hewitt, katy tur and "washington post" columnist and heather mcghee and also michael gerson. i will throw in one note from rich lowery. then i'll let you guys at it at what we just heard. any revolution has its pit falls. there will be allegations not to be believed. in all likelihood there will be overcorrection that will create its own wrongs. but a model of predation captured by scruple left, powerful men is getting destroyed before our eyes and it's a very good thing. heather mcgee. >> absolutely. this is one place where i really agree with rich lowry because fundamentally these issues are a question of power. when you think about what we need need to get at, to really

protect women and people in the workplace to really change this dynamic, it's the fact that men are still the majority of people who own the wealth, the economic power. the political power. gate keepers for careers and whole industries. you really can't prey on someone unless you have that degree of power. as we are thinking about this issue we are thinking about things that some people don't think of. it's not just about sexual harassment training. it is about more women in leadership. it is about pay equity. it is about more diversity at all levels of power. >> you are getting to the question we are trying to wonder. when do we know we are past this moment meaning we have taken another step? >> you look at the clinton example and you had people saying at the time it is just sex. and people don't say that anymore. this is coercion. it's exploitation, dehumanization is what we are talking about, abuse of power. that i think is the line that we have crossed is that this is not a private matter.

this is, in fact, a public matter that requires both a moral and legal re-dress. >> hugh, i'm going to you because you probably -- you publically showed your angst about donald trump more than anybody. and you said neil gorsuch -- i want to put up a gloria steinem quote, something to me that sounded similar. if all the sexual allegations now swirling around the white house -- at the time bill clinton -- turn out to be true, then the feminists will still have the right to call for impeachment. you change the words feminists to conservatives and right wing to left wing it sounds like rationalization we are seeing today in roy moore. >> you're right. i thought it summed up the angst, as they deal with the allegations. especially in alabama which is current. i have to watch the nancy pelosi interview again slowly.

i agreed with the former speaker on a couple of points, other points were incoherent. in the audience a huge number of people have been assaulted and discriminated and the subject of false allegations. it is the fear of the latter cannot overwhelm our action on the former but due process mediates that. when we come to due process for the presidential claims i was never persuaded -- katy and i talked about this on friday. i was never persuaded of the burden of proof in these case big any of the 14. >> that is what i found so interesting about your conversation on friday. one of the points you made is that there weren't corroborating evidence. there is year book of the one girl accusing roy moore but a number of people backed up the accusers' stories. in donald trump's case where women told their boyfriends at

the time, boyfriends who spoke to the press. and that is where i don't really understand the i'm going to believe roy moore's accusers wholeheartedly and not believe donald trump's accusers. there is a disconnect. >> i don't want to bore the world with this. contemporaneous utterances matter. in roy moore the mom is at a courthouse. there is a physical document and no denying that that happened that she met him out there. there's us in the preponderance of the evidence. >> donald trump was on the plane. there is evidence that donald trump was in trump tower when one woman said she kissed him. there is evidence of donald trump being in these places. where the women were accusing him. one thing i have been struck by in this whole conversation is that we have a different set of standards clearly for everybody else and for politicians. for men in the media, for men in hollywood, they are gone. it is over. the accusers are believed. for men in politics there is

which side of the aisle is this? i like al franken or john conyers or i like roy moore because they are representing whatever i want them to do in washington so i'm going to be more skeptical about who is accusing them. >> it's not just tribal politics but tribal morality. democrats saying he is pro choice. you have republicans saying we have the supreme court at stake. that is moral relativism at it worst. you have the governor of alabama making the case. i believe the women. >> i'm voting republican. >> i'm voting republican. that i think is the real problem, this motivating reasoning that people bring to this. >> that is what makes it -- i feel like we collectively the political world looks so much more out of touch than the rest of the world. >> i think this is a question where we have the republican

party with the serious morality problem right now. i want to name it. we have a party saying neil gorsuch is one thing. i testified against his nomination if that is what was able to be compelling to let trump's indiscretions and abuse of power go, fine. we are talking about roy moore as a pretty much everyone acknowledges that there is credible evidence that he was a child molester. the reason why kellyanne conway and other members of the republican infrastructure are saying we have to let this man walk into the senate is so that we can cut taxes on the rich. that is deeply immoral. >> where is the floor if it is not child molester? where do we go next? >> i think that is what we are trying to figure out. what is bottom here? when we come back we will talk to a woman who knows as much as anyone on what it is like to make a harassment claim against a powerful man. anita hill joins us next. us. it's what this country is made of. but right now,

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perhaps no one is more closely associated with sexual

harassment claims. claims that were met with skepticism and a coast to coast media frenzy in anita hill. when clarence thomas was nominated to the supreme court in 1991, anita hill alleged he sexually harassed her years earlier. the images are jarring to our 21st century eyes. there is 35-year-old hill facing 14 senators, all men, all of them white, all at least middle aged. a poll at the time showed by a 3-1 margin, americans were more inclined to believe thomas' denials than hill's accusations. the cascade of sexual harassment charges arising has led many to reconsider hill's allegations and the reaction overall to them. joining me now is anita hill. ms. hill, welcome back to "meet the press," actually. >> yes. thank you and good morning. >> let me start here. in many ways a lot of things have changed.

since you testified. a lot of things haven't. clarence thomas is still in the supreme court. bill clinton never had to resign. donald trump was elected after hearing some vicious comments and alleged allegations that he did. have we made progress? since you testified -- since 1991 or not? >> we have made progress. unfortunately 26 years ago washington wasn't ready to lead on this issue and i'm afraid even today washington cannot lead the country on this issue. there seems to be so many conflicted feelings and understandings about what is -- about what needs to happen when sexual misconduct occurs. >> what do you think happened in 1991 at the time? you think that was a group of men who simply didn't believe you and truly didn't believe you or were they just uncomfortable with having to deal with the issue?

>> i think it was a combination of factors that came into play in 1991. some people probably didn't believe me. other people believed me but they didn't care. they were talking -- we were in 1991 about politics and political expediency. many of the decisions i think and the way that i was treated were based on political expediency and not really on the merits of my testimony, not really in terms of the character and fitness for clarence thomas to sit on the supreme court evaluating these cases and finally not really on the merits and needs for gender equity in this country. >> do you think it has been difficult politically on this issue because there has been one party that fought harder. some would argue on gender

equity. the democrats and than -- than the democrats have. that might be a generic argument one might make. at the same time that may lead to why does it look like activists for gender equality forgive a democrat for sexual harassment more often than they forgive a republican. how do we get out of that box inside our political movements? >> i have been saying all along for the past few years as i talk about sexual harassment that when it comes down to it and all of the facts are brought out and into play then we are going to have to make some very tough decisions about people who we otherwise admire. and i think this is really something that we haven't come to terms with whether in washington, d.c. and in many cases whether it is in a college or university or in our work places. i'm really not inside of washington, d.c. and cannot really speak to how things are going to turn out, but i do say

-- and i'll repeat, that the leadership out of washington may not be the leadership that's going to clarify these issues for us. we need to count on leaders whether they are in business or labor or university or in the military to help us move forward on this. and that's really what i am looking for. after 26 years of hearing from women, i can't say i was entirely surprised with the me, too allegations and stories that came out of me, too. but i am just shocked that if we cannot look at those now and see that we have a widespread problem in this country. and i will just add, i think we're really at the tip of the iceberg here. many stories have already come out. there are still women who are marginalized, women who are in minimum wage jobs, women of

color who may be fearful of coming forward with their stories because they don't want to embarrass people racially. there are all kinds of things at play. there will be women in immigrant communities who may fear coming out because of jeopardizing immigrant status. we haven't heard from everyone. we have heard from enough women to know that this is a severe problem and that it is hurting not only those individuals but that it is hurting all of us as a society. >> i want you to extrapolate on something you said recently. you know, last year during i think it was a 25th anniversary look backs and you had been critical of joe biden who was on the senate judiciary committee at the time. he apologized for what you had to go through. you made the point that you said it came across as an i'm sorry if you were offended and you went on to say you don't believe he has taken ownership yet of

what he did wrong. what is that? what did he not get and what does he still not get in your opinion? >> first of all, let me say that many people viewing those hearings thought they were disastrous. it wasn't just me. many women across the country and many men and i have heard from that. what we have to understand it is not just about whether i accept an apology from joe biden. we need to look at what we can learn from the hearing and what we can learn about the need to have a clear and transparent process. what do we need to learn about the need to have a thorough investigation? the idea that we should be calling witnesses to allow them to testify in person, witnesses who have experienced the same kind of misconduct from the individual who is being accused. and then we really need to have some clear standards about what happens when we find that there is credible evidence that an individual has acted in this way

and engaged in egregious behavior. what do we do with that individual? what are the consequences? >> that is something we are all coming to grips with and trying to figure out in all of our sectors of life but especially in the world of politics. professor hill, thanks for coming on. appreciate it. >> thank you. when we come back, what is the one subject people don't want to talk about this holiday season? you won't be surprised. can you fit in there? i got this... that's the new man, huh? yup. getting kinda' close to my ride. wow... now, that's how you make a first impression. they're going to love you... that's ford, america's best-selling brand. hurry in today for 0% financing for 72 months across the full line of ford cars, trucks and suvs! and just announced...get 0% apr for 72 months plus $1000 cash back! take advantage of these exclusive holiday offers during the ford year end sales event.

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welcome back. "data download" time. we have new numbers about which topics of conversation cause 18% say work. 25% say family gossip. 37% religion. 42% money and finances. least favorite topic politics. this year 62% say politics was among their least favorite conversation topics over holiday meals. the feeling is bipartisan. it is across the board. one thing we agree on. we will have to find out if our panel agrees with that when we come back. coming up -- end game brought to you by boeing. continuing our mission to protect, connect, explore and inspire. own and i'd really appreciate a ride to the stadium. yes! ...but, no, i have to stay here and wait for a package. i thought anybody who rooted for me would have fedex delivery manager. that way you can sign for your packages remotely

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end game brought to you by boeing, continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore and inspire. >> back now with end game. hugh hewitt, is congress going to be engulfed in this sexual harassment issue because we hear more names trickle out or is the tax bill actually going to get some meaningful room for debate, or is it already cooked? >> it is already cooked. it will get through the senate, i believe. it will get through in ten days. when it does, it will be big conference committee discussion.

you can do two things at one time. there will be many other stories. we had 300 people slaughtered in egypt. we are always one news cycle away from something like that. >> is this a good tax bill for republicans to run on in 2018? >> i don't think so. it could have been. i think there are parts of it that would have been popular. but you have the university of chicago study this week where they surveyed 38 economists. and almost universally -- >> my favorite is 37 of the 38 believe the same thing and the 38th misinterpreted the question. >> exactly. and they concluded that we are not going to see significant growth out of this, and you are going to blow a hole in the deficit. are there three republicans left in the senate that actually care about debt? i'm not sure. i probably agree. i think they go along because they think the alternative is worse. passing nothing is worse. >> it is also a missed opportunity to invest in the things this country needs. we talk a lot about the deficit and debt.

we have a child care affordability crisis in this country. we have a student loan crisis in this country. we have infrastructure that is rotting from the inside and poisoning people. that is what nearly $2 trillion -- >> politically they could have basically sold deficit spending on tax cuts if they had included infrastructure. the irony is politically they could have given themselves more cover on that. michael flynn, katy tur, michael flynn's attorneys no longer speaking to the president's attorneys. the assumption is that means michael flynn is now cooperating with mueller. michael flynn is the one person donald trump has not thrown under the bus. >> he's broken the joint defense agreement with the white house and that makes everyone believe he's entered some sort of deal with robert mueller. if he is entering a deal with robert mueller that means he has some bigger fish to turn over, something more important than michael flynn. who is more important than michael flynn? it's a very small group of people.

jared kushner, maybe donald trump, maybe don jr. the question is, does he have a deal in place or is he so leveraged because of the threats against his son, is he just opening conversations because he has to. that being said, donald trump should be somewhat nervous by this because michael flynn was campaigning with him, he was on the plane with him. they grew very, very close. he opened for him at a number of rallies. you are right, the two people donald trump doesn't go after, doesn't insult -- michael flynn and vladimir putin. >> you can argue he has the mueller probe because he was so obsessed with trying to save michael flynn from a comey investigation. this has to be a blow to the president. >> there is a second interpretation which is mine. the foreign agents act. i believe michael flynn got afoul of it and i believe he is cooperating. >> you don't think it's bigger than that? >> i think everyone who has

violated fera over the past 20 years better lawyer up. >> bob mueller, that may be draining the lobbyists. we were stuffed with food and thanksgiving and with a show today. that is all we have for today. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." welcome! how's it going? hi! okay, so you've got two friends here. yes. this is the j.d. power award for dependability. now i want you to give it to the friend that you think is most dependable. ohhhh. ughh. wow. that's just not fair. does she have to? she doesn't have to! oh, i don't? no, but it's a tough choice, isn't it?

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