we're out of time and i'm on probation with whichuck todd an thank all of my guests. does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts now. >> and i'll send you a bill for overtime and steal it from ari after me not good at math, okay. >> fair enough. if it's thursday -- nothing. trump's taxes. tonight, how the tax plan could change your life and where you live. we'll sort out the substance from the sales job. >> it's our opportunity to overhaul our complex tax code and shift our economy into high gear. plus, nancy pelosi changes course. now calling on congressman conyers to step down amid sexual misconduct claims.

what changed? >> nancy pelosi is going to have to explain what is the discernible difference between al franken and john conyers. >> finally, while the clock appears to be ticking down to ve zero hour on rex tillerson's time at the state department. >> future now, working hard as the secretary of state. >> this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington and welcome to "mtp daily." folks, nothing trumps taxes for the republican party. not more sexual assault fallout, not inflammatory retweets from the president. not the prospects of war with north korea. republicans are on the cusp of their first major legislative victory under president trump, and seemingly nothing is going to get in their way.

>> we're in the stretch, you know, horse races are kind of a big deal in kentucky. we're going down the home stretch headed towards the finish line, either late tonight or early tomorrow. >> but as far as victories go, this one's a bit of a mess. looking live at the senate floor where republicans are barreling towards a vote on their tax plan. several of the key holdouts including john mccain, lisa murkowski, susan collins, all signaled they're support for this bill and if it passes lawmakers have to reconcile this version with what the house passed earlier this month. that process could start as soon as monday. when i said this thing's a mess, tlem explain why. the senate bill essentially has been duct taped together in more ways than we can count. it's now a health care bill as well repealing the obamacare individual mandate over time results in a spike in premiums because fewer people will get insurance. a side deal in the works to

address that problem, maybe. some republicans are worried this bill could blow up the deficit. non-partisan group of scorekeepers in congress put out a report saying, in fact, just that. it would raise the deficit by at least $1 trillion. there's a different side deal in the works to address that. two, more duct tape, which could mean parts of this bill gets clawed back, maybe. the tax cuts for businesses, permanent. but tax cuts for individuals, they aren't. and that could create a fiscal cliff a few years down the road or multiple fiscal cliffs down the road under the "maybe" column again. needless to say, this got complicated. they were supposed to simplify it's. arguably, it's less simple and continue to change. we know the final version of this plan will be a massive transformational change to american life, because get this. everything from where you live to how you pay for college or even health care to how much money you make, who benefits?

the president says it won't be wealthy people like himself. >> this is going to cost me a fortune, this thing. believe me. believe -- this is not good for me. me, it's not -- i have some very wealthy friends. not so happy with me, but that's okay. you know, i keep hearing schumer, this is for the wealthy, well if it is, my friends don't know about it. >> i've got an extensive fact check on that issue later in the show. but on all honesty, despite what the president is attempting to claim, no matter how you slice this, the gop tax plan is a big boom for the wealthy, specifically the trump family. slashing estate tax, slashing alternative minimum tax primarily impacts most wealthy households or slashing rates on so-called entities like the trump organization, all provisions that are either in the senate plan, house plan or both. by contrast, the poorest folks in the country will be worse off according to an analysis from

the non-partisan congress' budget office. "new york times" crunked numbers. making $50,000 more in taxes. the group earning $1 million or more essentially get a $5.8 billion cut. that's just the very tip of this iceberg in terms of impacts of the tax plan. they could dramatically change where people decide to live. why? by slashing deductions in state and local taxes, blue states use to help fund safety net programs, dramatically change how many pursue access college degrees. why? slashing deductions on student loan interest and tuition waivers for graduate students on increasing certain taxes on college endowments, which often subsidize tuition and dramatically impact who decides to buy a home essentially capping mortgage interest deductions, fewer may decide to become homeowners. this legislation will have a profound influence on american life as we know it. going to take a few years to see that impact play itself out.

joining me now, republican senator rounds of north dakota. you're in the middle of this. not all can be answered but welcome back to the show, sir. >> thank very much. do i get a chance to rebut a few of the things you just said? >> yes. go ahead. absolutely. start with this, though, an opening question here. which is this -- are you satisfied with this bill as it's going right now? any part of this thing that is a -- that is going to be in here that is a deal breaker for you? >> no. there are ways to make it better. there are several things we believe we'll be doing with technical amendments to the bill to take care of unintended consequences, but i do think there are some things in the bill you did not point out that will become reality for individuals in some of the lowest income tax brackets that should be pointed out. example, husband and wife, two kids, average american salary of $73,000 between the two of you, you'll see taxes go down by

about $2,300 a year. in excess of 50% what you're paying today. it's not like we're trying to hurt people on the bottom end. we really are focusing on some of the resources going into helping people that are w-2 wage earners and with people that have kids. the other thing is, when we start talking about subchapter s, c corporations, a lot of discussion in there about the equality between c corp.s and corps are not treated well. we think better off than before, just like the rest of the americans, but they don't get treated as well as the c corps do. >> you've comfortable voting for a tax plan now the jct is out way dynamic score using dynamic scoring, that says this bill will add $1 trillion to the

deficit over ten years. >> we think when they looked at it -- i don't think and i don't think the rest of the conference believes their dynamic scoring is accurate. here's the reason why. they're talking about an improvement in this thing probably about 0.8% or less. already over 1.2% now as an average. that's just on the anticipation of the tax, the tax relief plan we're proposing. we think we'll not only make it 3%, we think better than that. look, if we didn't believe that we wouldn't be doing this. we really believe that by making our country more competitive with the rest of the world, those 4,700 businesses that left in the last ten years, some will come back and others that would otherwise decide to leave they're going to invest in the united states rather than overseas. that keeps our jobs here. i don't think there's anybody out there that doesn't recognize that we need to do something to be competitive with the rest of the world with regard to the business tax rates out there. >> let me ask you this. there's been a lot of discussion

amongst some of your colleagues how much your donors are the ones that have been pushing so hard to see taxes get done, less so than rank and file. i think you had chris collins say my donors saying, get it done or don't ever call me again. lindsey graham, what happens if gop isn't able to pass tax reform? the party fractures. most incumbents a severe primary challenge in 2018, the worst possible outcome essentially. are you concerned here that the public is seeing this as a giveaway to the corporate donors who care about this, and they're not getting -- looks like it's more about the donors than the rank and file? >> no, i don't believe so. that might be the spin used on the campaign coming up. >> this came from republicans, though, senator. this was -- chris collins, republican house member. lindsey graham, republicans saying it not democrats. >> no. look, what i'm saying is, that might be some of the spin we're afraid's going to happen but reality is i think the fact you're personal income taxes,

reductions kick in right away this coming year, they'll see that in the amount they're withhold on their w-2s and so forth happens the first part of the year, successful on get itting done now. the corporate side, changes in that, only the full expensing kicks in next year. waits a full year. you'll see people see changes in tax rates next year and the proof is in the pudding. when they come home look at paychecks, didn't get anything out of this, plmaybe that's the case. a lot of people meantime, look at this, number one, did what you said you'd do, reform the tax policies here in the united states. two, i feel it in my personal paycheck. i got kids. getting a bigger tax credit now than i did before. i think that's going to be very, very helpful to a lot of americans out there and i think that's what they want to see is movement in washington and i think the fact we're actually going to have an economy that's improving, what they really want. come on. be honest. you don't want to see an economy that's going to continue on a

1.8%. nobody does. we're saying, we think we know what the problem is. number one, terrible tax plan now we're living with and second of all, regulatory -- causing a lot of folks to leave our country. >> i got to ask you this. you really think this is a simplified tax code you've done? you guys are adding, you know -- a permanent tax cut for the corporations, the individual is going to be a frankly a fiskcal mess with different triggers and aspects you have to hit because you're not working with the democrats, doing reconciliation. have ten-year window, rules to get into. if the goal was to simplify the tax code what about this bill has done that? >> very simple. people at the very end of it, the vast majority of americans that file a 1040-a go up to almost 90% of the american public n public. that saves about 90% of american people say i actually had a

simplified tax form and by the way, my personal deductions went up. my child care exemptions automatically went unon this. family are four, $73,000, $2,300 less in payments. that's an average american family. >> that doesn't own a home. >> not necessarily. because we're also in the proposal we're talking about, allowing for an exemption -- look, there's going to be a state and local tax excerpts about exemption in the final version. a lot people will have less in the amount still putting into to a 1040a form. not for you and me but a lot of other folks. >> fair enough. last question. you've been among others, not comfortable with roy moore as the nominee in alabama. i know there's a lot of your fellow republicans that say if elected, there should be an immediate investigation on the ethics committee.

is 2345 whethat where you stand? you want the ethics committee involved if he's elected? >> taking what the leadership said. there will be an investigation and i take that as fact. and i believe when they say that. you have to remember, the people in alabama have got to choose first. they're going to think this through. look at this thing and going to try to make up their mind what's best for alabama and what do they expect to have happen? i think they're torn by this. once again, this is a decision, difficult as it is, one that they have to make. >> curious if you believe roy moore, leadership believes roy moore, deserves to be investigated on these incidents, should the president be investigated for the accusations against him? and the since the only ethics committee that exists to do that is essentially the u.s. congress? do you think the president should be investigated for his transgressions? >> it would be up to the house. one approach to be taken, impeachment. nobody is suggesting that. >> the only way? you wouldn't say it do it in the ethics committee or in the special counsel? >> senate doesn't look at the

house, house doesn't look at the senate. he's not a member of the senate. not a member of the house. he's a separate and distinct body in government and you and i both know that. look, with regard to folks in the senate, we'll talk about the folks in the senate if we have to. dwe we'll do our best to maintain at professional level. >> leave it there. vote rama. see if you get sleep tonight. joining me, perspective from the other side of the aisle. maria cantwell. welcome back to the show. >> thank you, chuck. row had y how are you? >> good. you're not a big fan of this tax plan. let me ask you this -- how much are you willing to show your opposition? meaning is it worth trying to shut down the government to stop this tax plan? what stops do you think you should put out to oppose this tax plan? >> we're doing everything we can today to communicate about it,

and to convince our colleagues, particularly from states who are going to be greatly impacted, like nevada and texas and florida and my state of washington. that this is a bad idea. it is not tax simplification. it's simply raising taxes on the middle class that we should slow down, go and improve this process, that it's immense change to the tax code with a lot of very rush, rush haste makes waste and there are things in there i don't think people even understand. even the people who want to see the changes in the tax code understand. >> what -- were you ever open to being more involved in this? i'm sure -- >> yes. >> on one hand you'll say yes, but where did it break down? did senator schumer say you couldn't be? >> no. i think the issue is that actually when max baucus was still here and we started discussions which i thought were important for a very big

perspective, and that in my view we live in an innovation economy. that innovation driving lots of change. it also means that there's disruption. so for me, the question is, yes. how do companies compete? but how does the individual worker also stay competitive? where do they get the skill set they need to make sure that they have a job? what are we doing about making the affordability of education or an apprentice job? how do we factor that in to the equation? and the housing problem. housing has become so unaffordable, and has been less and less of our economy in the last, it's been falling from 15% of gdp to 12% of gdp. what will we do to fix the basic middle class problem. what happened is, the administration decided, okay. we're going to come up with this plan and even though we had a few meetings with them, where they came to meet with finance committee members, they kind of

shooed this notion to go through a normal process. >> and a lot more leverage in year-end votes on the budget bill. how do you plan on using that leverage? what's the best thing to fight for as democrats? what do you want to shut down the government for? >> there is a plethora of issues to be dealt with before the end of the year. i guess our biggest worry right now is that people are just talking about doing this tax bill and then doing a cr until next february. what's most important right now, because if you think about what's on our plate, first of all, you have all of these disasters in our state and in the northwest and in california, you have fires. >> the fires, right. >> you have drought. you have the floods and storms in texas and florida and puerto rico. then you also have this big debate that people want to have right now, which is lifting and busting the caps on

sequestration. so i'm scratching my head to my republican colleagues. why are you now wanting to have this debate about adding you know, spending $5 trillion when we haven't even had this discussion about the budget caps on sequestration and on the supplemental that is going to be in the hundreds of billions of dollars? sow me these things all go together. o'wou i would be trying to leverage the discussion into what is good fisk's policy and what is good stimulus and i don't think, to your last interview with my colleague, he and some of the republicans keep touting this 3% growth issue, and i don't know that there's any economist that is saying it's going to get to 3%. no one is saying that. people are even doubting whether they'll get to 0.3% growth. i want people to slow down. talk about the investment side of this. is it going to the right play?

they think going to corporate, it will go into the economy. i think it will go to dividends. is that good for some? yes. does it take care of the transitional economy issue that the middle class is suffering from? >> a lot of house leaders including nancy pelosi called for john conyers to resign. does that change your view on al franken, your colleague in the senate? is it time for him to go or do you still think an ethics investigation first matters? >> well, i know there's new information today but i haven't reviewed it. rime going to review it tonight. believe me, i've been fighting between trying to keep our local deductions, what we're going to be offering an amendment on in a few minutes and fighting to try to get anwar out of this. there's been a lot of work we've done today with the parliamentarian and haven't been able to review the accusations and will do that. check with me tomorrow, i'll give you an answer. >> what's your definition of zero tolerance? keep hearing zero tolerance for

this, but what does that mean to you? >> you'll have to ask people who have used the words "zero tolerance." chuck, the larger issue is what can we do now to really understand this issue from all its complexities, and to me it's what existed in our culture that allowed this to go on? i think today or yesterday, the disturbing aspects of some of the news was that, oh, yes. people knew that this was what was going on. this is the environment that existed, that it was kind of looked at as a buddy-buddy, give somebody a pat on the back for being the big womanizer or using their influence this way, and i think what we have to say is, what is it about our culture that was allowing that to exist and what can we do in the u.s. senate, in the private sector, in every education sector to make sure that that does not continue to be the norm for our society. that is a very important aspect.

>> senator, out of time. leave it there. thanks for coming on. check back in on all of those topics. appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, is there about to be a shake-up in the president's cabinet? we'll be right back. (laughter on tv) when it's finally sunday and you've got no plans but with your comfy pants... (alert chime on phone) keep it simple with marie callender's roasted turkey & stuffing. tender turkey with stuffing, creamy mashed potatoes, and made from scratch gravy. spoiler alert, things are about to get good. (click, laughter on tv) because me time calls for marie callender's. ( ♪ ) more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. (clapping) and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country.

( ♪ ) because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest.

welcome back to "mtp daily." could there be a shake-up in the works at the white house? feels like there's always rumors are one. right? the "new york times" reports planning to oust secretary of state terry zoillerson and repl in cia pompeo. denials from the white house, pushing back. spoke to officials tamping down the idea a bit a formal succession plan put in place by kelly but a senior official admitted tillerson has been recently discussing a year-end departure with colleagues. read into that what you will. back with more "mtp daily" in 60

seconds. or, if you prefer, crimson red tintcoat friday. or quicksilver metallic friday? ♪ ring in the holidays with buick. it's the enclave black friday event at your buick dealer. get 20% below msrp on all 2017 enclave premium models. that's over $10,500 on this specially equipped enclave. discover card. i justis this for real?match, yep. we match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? uh huh! let it go! whoo! get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover.

welcome back. time to dig into tonight's panel. senior vice president for progress and republican strategist is with us. drama playing out on the floor of the senate. there is a motion to move the bill, move this tax bill, send it back to committee. right now sitting at 48-48. three holdout republican senators, corker, flake and ron johnson all of whom whose names had been circulating for weeks as potential hurdles to this senate tax bill. brad todd, right now three have not voted on this. a whole bunch of people huddling together. obviously animated talk here. i know you've done work for ron johnson in the past and know these guys. >> and senator johnson's position pretty clear and one of

the most important to address. wants equity for companies not c corps in the bill. house bill has more than the senate at the time. a constituency, small businesses, mid-size, family businesses. he's the one to watch. >> and if he goes, corker and flake might be comfortable having it back. a possibility that they're all a little working in concert here? >> that's possible, but the thing that makes me think about is, not saying that corker and flake would be willing to have their elbows bent by the president of the united states to pass something they obviously have substantive things they want changed but the president's soward relationships and combativeness he's had with these two senators could have real consequences. >> not like the president can pick up the phone with them? two meaningless calls? >> traditionally that's what would happen. >> nothing united states the people like an invasion from

mars and republicans view this as an ain vainvasion from mars. >> punch drunk dealing with the tennessee stuff, i know. >> don't pick on me. >> i know. danielle, interesting. a time i think you probably that when this tax bill eventually came, wouldn'ten in this situation, probably five democrats voting not with the democrats on this but voting with the republicans. that's why the republicans are in this situation. >> yeah. >> those red state democrats never got wooed. >> absolutely not. republicans in congress are just terrible. really bad at this right now, oh. >> the fact they are rushing this through and after all of the hypocrisy around obamacare, being rushed, which 2 wasnit wa. taken time, done outreach, but they need a win so bad for

themselves and for president trump they're willing to push through this bill. nobody knows what's in it. the jct score. it's not the final bill. are you going to wait -- >> this does look a lot like, the way looked at end game of health care. >> the president traveled to the states of joe manchin, claire mccaskill, took them on the plane with them took them to rallies. they had every chance to say, i heard the voters in my state. >> whoa. mitch mcconnell? >> these people have to answer to voters in their state. where's claire mccaskill? not answering -- >> i don't know. how did this not happen? >> i think a few democrats -- felt it's easier to unite against something like this. it was not clear exactly where it was going. through health care in there. and it wasn't able, weren't able to pull off getting any democrats obviously. this does, though, feel like a gamble that voters really just

want to see something get done. when they announced the president's going to do the date, state of the union in january. imagine if he stood up and had nothing? all he could say, we got gorsuch. he needs this. the republican party needs this and you feel it is rushed through. i don't think anybody can dispute that. >> the deficit numbers came out with dynamic scores, brad, put it at $1 trillion deficit, ten years added to the deficit. is there a constituency in the republican electorate angry about that? >> if we can't cut taxes, there's no -- >> my e.p. loves you because you're being honest about it. >> all the smart things? what about all of this deficits under obama? >> a bunch of -- >> first -- >> clearly. >> and government economists tend to always -- >> democrats only care about the deficits fr s when republican, charge. >> don't believe tax cuts to

corporations, millionaires and billionairesants and dynamic scoring even done by government economists is too pefs missimis. take all the programs daniella wants to implement, produce more. >> what's this conference committee look like? what i'm trying to figure out. do democrats participate or not? >> hard to see democrats participating if there are certain things on this. depends how they want to play it. hard to match. >> significant differences between the house and senate bill. biggest, between state and local. might be the biggest fight. >> there is. fight. >> there is. just tell you, involved in the red states, indiana. i would love it in claire mccaskill and donnelly would -- >> voted for this bill? candidates running against them. do you think they're voting for this bill it would make it

harder for your candidates -- >> flip the evasion. never herpd wilped with the bild man and woman walking. >> they need to help with the bill? what do you think? >> i don't think so. i don't think they need to help the bill as-is now. geared massively towards corporations and millionaires and top 1%. no, don't need to. >> depends how it shapes out. if in the implementation of this democrats don't support this at all and they're able to point to places where middle class is not getting what it thought it was, a much easier thing than pro actively sell something. >> pause here. a developing story. still sitting at 48-49. three votes to go. back to committee. 49, flake, corker, ron johnson holding out. there's the huddle. see animation. we're going to sneak in a break. figure out what's going on and see if we can bring you more updates on this. meanwhile, also coming up, every member of the house

democratic leadership is now calling on congressman conyers to resign. what has changed? your brain changes as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.

-oh! -very nice. now i'm turning into my dad. i text in full sentences. i refer to every child as chief. this hat was free. what am i supposed to do, not wear it? next thing you know, i'm telling strangers defense wins championships. -well, it does. -right? why is the door open? are we trying to air condition the whole neighborhood? at least i bundled home and auto on an internet website, progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents,

but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. i mean, why would i replace this? it's not broken. welcome back to "mtp daily." self more women are leveling sexual misconduct allegations against former "today" show co-host matt lauer. now hearing from lauer himself, first time since fired by nbc news after a colleague's complaint of inappropriate sexual behavior.

in his statement lauer writes -- to the people i have hurt i am truly sorry. goes on to say, some of what is being said about me is untrue or mischaracterized, but there is enough truth in these stories to make me feel embarrass and asham ashamed. two additional women came forward to the network after the news had broken and "new york times" reports one employee says was sexually assaulted by mr. lauer in his office in 2001 and "variety" magazine laid out a pattern of misconduct. nbc news said in a statement, we can say unequivocally prior to monday night, current nbc news management was never made aware of any complaints about matt lauer's conduct. meanwhile on capitol hill two more women now accusing minnesota democratic senator al franken of sexual misconduct. franken continues to say he has never intentionally engaged in this kind of contact, and remains committed to cooperating with an ethics investigation, preliminary inquiry in that

investigation formally announced today. another high-profile congressman accused of sexual harassment and misconduct is staying put for now. congressman john conyers is finding fewer and fewer defendsers even within his own caucus. we'll get to that when "mtp daily" returns. >> were these allegations founded and if they are founded, yes, he should resign. >> thought it was in his best interest to step away from this body. >> pray for senator conyers and his family wish him well, howeve however, john conyers should resign. how do we get back to "us"? the y fills the gaps. and bridges our divides. donate to your local y today. because where there's a y, there's an us.

"honey, i am way too whendecadent for you."aid, i came up with o, that's good! comfort soups like broccoli cheddar... with a twist of butternut squash. o... -mmm ...that's good!

upeace of mind.s we had a power outage for five days total. we lost a lot of food. we actually filed a claim with usaa to replace that spoiled food. and we really appreciated that we're the webber family and we are usaa members for life.

welcome back. as we just mentioned, a growing numbers democrats are now calling on congressman john conyers to resign over sexual misconduct allegations. at least 11 colleagues say they should resign, started really this new deluge of calls started when minority leader nancy pelosi and the rest of the house democratic leadership called on him to resign. pelosi, a sharp turn from what

she said sunday on "meet the press" to me praising the michigan democrat as an icon. her call for conyers to resign came after an explanation experienced during an exclusive interview with the "today" show. conyers, home in detroit since tuesday is now hospitalized due to stress according to his political consultant. meanwhile, conyers' attorney was defiant today saying the congressman will not be pressured to resign. >> there are to my count, five of these allegations against al franken. there are four, three or four against the congressman. at the end of the day, i would suspect that nancy pelosi is going to have to explain what is the discernible difference between al franken and john conyers? >> democratic congresswoman of illinois joins me now on this

topic. good to see you. welcome back to the show. >> thanks, chuck. >> let me simply have you answer john conyers' lawyer's question there. do you see a difference between conyers and franken, number one? number two, you actually haven't said where you are on john conyers. give you a chance to do that as well. >> okay. well, you know, there are allegations that multiple women have come forward in both cases. and i don't think there's any difference whether you're a senator or whether you're a house member. how long you've been in congress. what committees you're on. if the allegations are true, and i have no reason to doubt the women who have come forward, then time to go. doesn't matter if it's, again, senator, house, the allegations are true, it's time to go. >> let me clarify. you think john conyers and al franken should resign? >> i believe that if these allegations are true, and i have no reason to doubt the women. i don't have any relationship with them other than what i've read and heard.

but it's time to say, we are members of congress. we are in an institution that our people back home have put trust in us to represent them. each of our districts are about 700,000 people. we owe them and we owe the american public better than what they're seeing right now. there should be -- i saw you ask your question earlier about zero toleran tolerance. zero tolerance means very simply that the people in congress and the people whether it's the house or senate shouldn't be behaving in this way. and if they think that's okay behave this way, go somewhere else. >> let me ask you this. a debate, you hear the phrase due process thrown around with members of congress, but i've actually talked with people saying, wait a minute. yes, you get due process in a legal standing as an american citizen. but you know what? as a member of congress, you're actually, should be held to a higher standard? meaning that -- that you know sorry, yes. that wouldn't get you fired f m from, from, legally from a

government job, but you're an elected, public servant. it's different. what do you say to that? >> it ought to get you fired in whatever job you're in. we know sexual harassment doesn't happen just in the, in congress. we know it happens in journalism, happens in health care. happens at malls. it happens in all different sorts of workplaces, but to the point i made earlier is, we should be held to a higher standard. and i'm not a lawyer. in fact, i'm a former journalist. and the way i look at these things is, let's get to the bottom. do it quickly. do it thoroughly, and let's make sure that we set a process in place where this isn't going to continue to happen. again, the people of our country deserve better than they're getting right now. >> interesting in ow he, you end up setting up this -- obviously the way it works with the ethics committee is now a very fair process to somebody who's been a victim of this. should members of congress even

have a role in that? the appearance to the public is that these members of congress have been protecting themselves with this secret slush fund and all of that. maybe it should be outsiders that decide whether something is sexual harassment or not, not another member of congress? >> i would be open to that. we haven't done, obviously, koung hasn congress hasn't done a good job policing itself. if these allegations go back 20 years, congress has used taxpayer dollars, $17,000 worth, to pay out victims rather than holding these congressman accountable, there's a problem with that. i'm open to saying there should be an outside body. i'm just open to this, chuck what we've got to get down to is, it's got to be done thoroughly, done transparently. people ought to see what's going on and the people who have been the result of having $17 million paid out, they ought to come

forward. we ought to know who they are. >> how do we get out of this box? you seem to be wanting to get out of this box. i'll ask you this question. how do we get out of this box where you have people that defend members of their own party, or in their own tribe, who get accused of something and want to give them more time to explain, but when somebody from the other party, nope! off with their head. there's no equilibrium here. zero tolerance for the other party but qualified tolerance for your own. how do we get out of this box or is the bill clinton, donald trump effect too strong on us? >> should make no difference. i'm a democrat. but i don't care if it's a republican or a democrat who has basically treated women as sexual prey. it doesn't matter to me, and we've got to rise above it. have's to say it doesn't mat fer you're in the house or senate, democrat or republican. you've done something wrong, if you are a serial sexual

harasser, if you have treated women whether they're interns or staffers or fellow members as sexual prey, you've got to go. doesn't matter what party you are. and to your question, how do we get there? maybe we call on the public to say there should be a zero tolerance for those who serve in congress to make sure we're doing what's right, honest, fair, reasonable. >> want you guys to all be role models again. all i'm asking, in a positive way. >> i agree. we should be. >> congresswoman, appreciate it. thanks for coming on. >> thank you. back with more on that possible cabinet shake-up, right after this. keep it here. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college.

it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ so how old do you want uhh, i was thinking around 70. alright, and before that? you mean after that? no, i'm talking before that. do you have things you want to do before you retire? oh yeah sure... ok, like what? but i thought we were supposed to be talking about investing for retirement? we're absolutely doing that. but there's no law you can't make the most of today. what do you want to do? i'd really like to run with the bulls. wow. yea. hope you're fast. i am. get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change. investment management services from td ameritrade.

all right. i owed you that update on the drama we thought was developing on the senate floor earlier in the hour. seemed a few minutes senators flake, corker and johnson contemplating voting with democrats to send the entire tax bill back to the tax committee. didn't. voted to keep going, but were talking about was the so-called trigger mechanism that they are fighting for that would kick in if this tax reform plan doesn't result in the growth and added revenues that republicans are claiming it will. in order to basically deal with the deficit problem. just off the senate floor, senator john corn, two in the senate, told reporters doesn't sound like the trigger is going to work according to the senate parliamentarian. so that means that the deficit

issue could be a big problem and impact how some smarts vote on the bill like corker, flake, johnson. we'll be right back. ♪ everyone deserves attention, whether you've saved a lot or just a little. at pnc investments, we believe you're more than just a number. so we provide personal financial advice for every retirement investor.

psoriatic arthritis tries to get in my way? ♪ watch me. ♪ i've tried lots of things for my joint pain. now? watch me. ♪ think i'd give up showing these guys how it's done? please. real people with active psoriatic arthritis are changing the way they fight it... they're moving forward with cosentyx®. it's a different kind of targeted biologic. it's proven to help people find less joint pain and clearer skin. don't use if you are allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx you should be checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms of an infection. or if you have received a vaccine, or plan to. if you have inflammatory bowel disease tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. with less joint pain, watch me.

for less joint pain and clearer skin, ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. panelists back, danieldaniela, and todd. pompeo for tillerson, cotton for pompeo. this potential shakeup, carol lee, we've been hearing about this ever since the moron story, when rex tillerson referred to the president as a moron. we know tillerson's days are numbered. where are we in this story? >> the beginning of the middle or the end. >> not the epilogue yet. >> it's clear that just based on what we learned about what happened over the summer and how unhappy rex tillerson was and

how unhappy the president was with him, this was inevitable. you talk to people and they say he just wants to make it a year. this seems to be moving pieces in place. pompeo, people talked about nikki haley moving over to state but pompeo really surged in recent months. he spends a lot of time with him, the president likes him. there's a whole separate conversation on what this means for policy having somebody like pompeo over there and tom cotton. you were also reporting and ken delaney confirmed that the white house has been vetting others for cia. so this so it's serious. >> it's interesting to me i think this is a smart change by the president in this respect. the president and the secretary of state have to sing from the same song sheet. no matter your politics here, if you don't have -- right? >> right. this will be a good move for donald trump in the white house.

will it make sense for the state department, i don't know. >> tom cotton, the cia also in a weird way, some people thought pompeo was playing too much politics. cotton's got a very sort of clean cut reputation. >> i don't think anybody in foreign policy, the foreign policy arena on the conservative side has a stronger reputation than tom cotton does. pompeo, i would also add, republicans on capitol hill really trust mike pompeo a lot and that's been a big problem with state's relations so far. the people in the senate and the people in the house -- tillerson has been a new creature to them. >> there was no relationship. they didn't know him and frankly -- >> and he didn't try. if you talk to republicans on the hill, they'll say they can't get him to call them back. there are people in the administration who can't get him to call them back. >> this looks like a divorce between trump and tillerson. this is on tillerson, isn't it? this is not on trump. the more we learn, it looks like

he wasn't that interested. he doesn't act like a guy that's enjoyed it. >> there is a sense of an indifference to the job. he wanted to do the reorganization of the state department and that was really it and he just didn't try very hard. he didn't try with the press corps, with internal politics, with members of congress, and so in the end he has no constituency. >> brad, you work with a lot of first-time candidates, business guys, wealthy guys that come in and a lot of them do fail and a lot of times you back out of working with them. he seems like he would have made a terrible candidate. >> sometimes they look at the political process or all the time they look at the political process with isdain. the successful ones say this is how i can look at it. >> they take it as a challenge. >> it didn't seem like he did that. >> you said republicans were only born to cut taxes.

corker, flake, langford, they are deficit hawks. this could put the bill in danger, could it not? >> i believe that we're going to pass a tax cut, i really do. it's not the government's money, it's the people's money sor, it the people's money. you're really not taking money from government. you're just leaving it with people who earned it. >> okay, we shall find out. carol, daniela, brad, some of us will be up late tonight. we'll be right back. let's get the big guy in place. the ford year end sales event is here.

i can guide you in. no, thanks , santa. i got this. santa: uh, it looks a little tight. perfect fit. santa needs an f-150. that's ford, america's best selling brand. hurry in today for 0% financing for 72 months across the full line up of ford cars, trucks and suvs. for a limited time, get an additional $1,000 cash back on top of 0% financing for 72 months. get these exclusive offers during the ford year end sales event. get these exclusive offers when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest.

even the smallest things firstthen you put yourselfareer. through school. got the degree. you've given it your all, to reach the goals you've set. don't let student debt hold you back. refinancing student loans with sofi can save thousands. so you can get where you've always been headed... sooner. see how much you can save with sofi. the leader in student loan refinancing.

family kicked off the holiday season by lighting the national christmas tree. if massive christmas trees are your thing, well, there you go. here's a live look at the one in the back yard by the way of our nbc news new york city offices. it's always fun to see that as well. it's america's two favorite christmas trees, the one in washington and the one in rockefeller center and of course the one in your house as well. that's all for tonight. we'll be back with more tomorrow. "the beat" starts now. good evening. >> i watched your toss and i just want to share with you if you could tell nicole that like maxine waters i plan to be reclaiming my time. >> there you go. fair enough. but again u you'you're not goin blame me, always blame nicole. >> you were holding a debt that was neither yours on either end. that happens in