good saturday to you. i'm david gur a. the president not uttering a word about michael flynn guilty plea. he lied to the fbi but still tweeting about it, i had to lie him because he lied to the vice president and fbi. he pled guilty to the lies. it's a shame because there was nothing to high. we'll discuss the significance of that tweet with a team of lawyers. but first we'll go to the white house. my colleague asked the president about that. what did he have to say? >> look, we know from the court documents that michael flynn consulted with senior trump transition officials about his contacts with the then russian ambassador to include jared

kushner, the president son-in-law and senior advice exhibit and the former trump adviser katie mcfarlane. that's what they are reporting. we also know based on this plea deal that flynn is cooperating with the special counsel which suggests he has information on a person or persons higher up on the trump chain of command. so with all that background i asked the president this morning if he was concerned about what michael flynn might tell the special counsel. here's what he said. >> no, i'm not. and what has been shown is no collusion. no collusion. there has been absolutely no collusion. so we are very happy. >> so he says no collusion, no collusion. that of course is one of the things that the special counsel is looking into. and the thing we are all waiting to see is just what michael flynn is providing robert mueller in exchange for what appears to be a fairly lenient plea deal. >> let me ask you about the other news on today.

the tax reform bill. he was in asia, out of town. what's the white house saying about the role he's going to play here as this piece of legislation is com. >> i asked kellyanne conway about this, i asked is he more in this than the health care. the slam with the health care wasn't all that involved with the details and didn't understand the bill. she didn't appreciate the premise of the question. but her point is the president given his business background has really a lot to say about this tax plan, how it all is coming together. he knows pa lot about the corporate tax cuts in particular, and cares a lot about that. and then beyond the substance of the bill on the politics of it as we all know, that the president and the gop really needs to have something to show their voters back home and also the donor class.

something to show for controlling all of the levers of power of washington. david. >> all right. jeff. thanks very much. jeff bennett joining us from the white house. if he had known he lied to the fbi when he fired back in february, that calls into question what he told lester holt during this exclusive interview back in may, the same week he fired james comey. let's take a listen. >> as my white house counsel don mcghan came back to me and didn't make it sound like an emergency. and she actually didn't make it sound that way in the hearings the other day. like it had to be done immediately. this man has served for many years. he's a general. he's, in my opinion, a very good person. i believe that it would be very unfair to hear from somebody who we don't even know, and immediately run out and fire a general. >> acting attorney general at

the time? >> my white house counsel came to me, they had, i believe two meetings, and we ultimately fired, but we fired for a different reason. >> you are talking about general flynn? >> general flynn, yes. >> because of lying to the vice president. >> yeah. but everything plays in. everything plays into it. but we fired him because he said something to the vice president that was not so. >> with me now the chief white house ethics lawyer, harvard law school, and with me here in new york. and allan, let me begin with you with the quote, i had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and fbi. he pled guilty to those lies. it's a shame because there was nothing unlawful. retweeting that tweet moments ago. if that is true, mr. president, why did you wait so long to fire

flynn. why did you fail toll act until his lies were exposed? and why did you pressure comey to let this go. >> what questions did the tweets from the president, tweet there from adam schiff raises from you? >> i think the president is right he lied about things that were completely lawful. it's completely lawful to negotiate with the russians to try to get them to vote against the united nations security council resolution. "the new york times" acknowledges that on their front page even though they call it a thunder clap. they say the whole purpose was to try to influence foreign policy during the transition. the obama administration was furious and today them to back off. that's at worz the political sin. it's not a crime. because it cob a crime only under the logan act. and logan act is in operative because it hasn't been used in 200 years. and the real question is this ha show of strength or weakness by mueller. i think show of weakness. indicting your key witness for lying makes it impossible to use

the key witness as a witness at a trial. he would have been much happier if he could have found a conspiracy charge to level against flynn which would have involved other people. so i think indicting him for lying about something that was not material directly to the investigation was not itself ta crime is a show of weakness not a show of strength. >> let me put that question to you. they are making the point that something may have been politically untoward but not illegal. the logan act. do you agree with him there? do you agree this piece of law from the 18th century should be something we no longer are considering? >> i think we should consider it in terms of what's right and wrong. the likelihood of a prosecution under the logan act is extremely remote. it was very rude, very offensive not to loop in the obama state department. they knew what they were doing with respect to that resolution. and the trump people may have had a different view. but he took office on january

20. so it was rude and offensive. but it wasn't something that anyone would be prosecuted for. but you do get prosecuted for lying about something like that. and general flynn lied. and what's surprising to me is that the president knew that he lied to the fbi, and then continued to try to pressure the fbi not to pursue an investigation of mr. flynn. of general flynn. and then fired james comey. i think he's tweeted his way into an obstruction of justice situation. >> do you agree with that in terms of what we saw and read on twitter this morning? >> absolutely not. you cannot and should not prosecute the president for exercising his constitutional authority. he had the authority to fire comey. he had the authority to tell comey to stop investigating flynn. we may not like that, jefferson liked it. he told his attorney general who to prosecute, who not to prosecute. lincoln did the same thing. franklin roosevelt did the same thing. barack did the same thing yet we

can't make it a crime. we have an untarry executive and you need a mens rea. and the ac test ray a, act of a crime can't be a constitutionally protected act regardless of what the motive may have been, we don't psycho analy analyze the president. >> as we look into obstruction of justice, we now have admission of guilt. we have a charge. does that strengthen the case for obstruction of justice? >> you have to connect a lot of dots before you get to object instruction of justice. in a sense, section 1001 could be considered part of the body of laws. and there are many federal laws that deal with what we commonly call obstruction of justice. there are six major statutes. section 1001, false statements is a form of obstruction itself, because it's basically lying about something material, that's the key, to a federal agent. and that's what general flynn pleaded guilty to. the issue that i think has to be

flushed out in the next coming weeks is going to be what went into that decision. what else did the federal government have on general flynn. if it is true that they only had section 1001, you have to understand, yes, it's got statutory maximum of five years, but the sentencing guidelines for defendant like flynn either without cooperation are zero to six months. why not tell the government to pound sound if you are flynn and take your chances at trial knowing your sentence exposure isn't that high. it might be that they had more on general flynn. or it may just be that he didn't want to deal with the federal prosecution. >> all right. chime in here. >> on his son, that's the way prosecutors work. >> it is. >> i've had many many instances unless you plead to something, we are going to go after your son. look if i had been flynn's lawyer he might win a case on lig to the fbi. because if he lied about something that was not at all a crime, it was perfectly lawful,

the government may not be able to sea the materiality aspect of the case. in any event, he would have gotten, as you say a relatively small sentence. so i don't think he pleaded because of that. i think he pleaded to protect his son. which makes him a very weak witness. any defense attorney says ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this is a man admitted lying, saving his son. why would you believe him? he would say anything to save his son from prosecution. >> so might lose him credibility on the stand. but talk a bit about his utility here in the investigation. weigh those two things. seems quite frankly to me by participating in this way a huge help to the mueller investigation. >> it's very possible, i mean he's only useful insofar he can provide them with self proving leads, self proving documentation t or information. because he's virtually worthless witness. he may be able to do that. but if he were able to do that, i think they might have waited until he did it, then indict him for something more serious than

lying to the fbi, which involved other people. remember in watergate, they indicted people and they named the president as an unindicted coconspiracy. if mueller could have done that with higher up people, would he have done that, therefore going after his key witness only for lying about a noncrime is a show possibly of weakness, not of strength and i wouldn't use "the new york times" thunder clap. i think this may end with a whimper. >> talking about the front page of the editorial page. writing about what we learned about yesterday and pardoning as well. let me read one excerpt from that. what was disclosed in the court filings is probably only the tip of the ice berg. prosecutors need that to the bare minimum in order to tipping their hand in their investigation. what cards here do you think that robert mueller is now holding as a result of getting michael flynn to participate in

this fashion? >> we don't know what general flynn is going to say, who in the trump administration talked to him about the russians, whether it was jared kushner or anyone else. and whether this happened during the campaign or during the transition phase. and then whether those people have lied to the fbi. in jared kushner lied to the fbi or anyone else about his contacts with the russians or his attempt to manipulate the united states stance on that united nations security council resolution during the obama administration, once again that might be perfectly legal. if he lied to the fbi he's in big trouble. and i want to emphasize you can lie to the fbi as long as it's not criminal. you never lie to the fbi. and when you are talking to a foreign adversary. >> not so far. >> discussions foreign adversary such as russia, you do not lie

to the fib end of discussion. >> you do not end to the fbi, but the words of the statute itself contain the words materiality. if you look at the legislative history of section 1001 s congress never really intended for every single lie ever told in the presence of a federal agent or federal official to be criminal. that's why they included the materiality component. one of the essential elements. >> that's why they do background checks. do pa lot more than investigate crimes. and once again i think any law professor or any lawyer says that you can lie to the fbi because a crime isn't kpet. that's wrong. >> i wouldn't advise anyone. >> go ahead professor. >> nobody should lie, including somebody on television, nobody should lie. i never said that. what i said is it might not be a crime. there is it a big difference. >> it is a crime. >> of course it was wrong. >> it's a crime to lie to the

fbi about something that's important to the fbi. and that includes background investigations. >> let's let allen finish his point. >> you said it was rude for him to try to get the russians to veto the resolution against israel. i think it was highly desirable. the president of the united states. >> of course. >> decided to let that go throughout of peak against netanyahu. it was against the -- >> that has nothing to do with this. >> i am very proud of the trump transition team for trying to get this outrageous u.n. resolution vetoed. i think we ought to be applauding them for that and not trying to prosecute him. >> i think you are wrong. but irrelevant to this. nothing to do with this. >> you are rude and that's not a crime. >> it was rude. thank you very much. >> i think it was virtuous. >> thank you for all joining me for analysis of the news of yesterday today. still ahead russia and the republicans how michael flynn cooperation with the special

counsel could impact the gop long-term plans. and despite die exception, senate approves the tax plan in the early morning hours. we'll break down the numbers and the obstacles it could face in the house of representatives. more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest.

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general flynn is a wonderful man. i think he's been treated very unfairly by the media. as i call it, the fake media.

>> i think it's very sad what they've done with the fake doiz. >> things have gotten very real in the last 24 hours with national security adviser michael flynn pleading guilty to lying to the fbi. michael flynn fourth person in president trump orbit to be charged by special counsel mitch mcconnell prompting the question who might be next. >> joining me now. howard dean let me go to you first. what's changed politically? we talked about this in d.c. what do you make of the degree americans are engaging in this process? >> i think you are going to get more interested the more closer this gets to the white house. you know, the president is at

33% in gallop this morning, all-time low. and it's going to get worst when they find out what's in tax reform, it wasn't tax cuts, it was for wealthy and theirs will go up. i don't think the russia investigation is a huge deal other than it's going to cripple the white house eventually because eventually donald trump junior is going to be in this net and so is jared kushner. that's when the president is going to really have to do a gut check. because when you hit somebody's family, that's when they get to be really really vulnerable. and more is macoming. i heard what allan had to say, this is wishful thinking. this is real trouble for the white house. mueller knows what he's doing. he's not a stupid man. i think the white house is getting into more trouble every day. >> i want to get your perspective what happened last year and early morning hours this day in washington d.c. and

how that will resonate with voters in south carolina and elsewhere. we look at handwritten notes to what was finally voted on by republicans and republicans in the senate last night. how will that play with voters in the south carolina and voters elsewhere in the u.s.? >> so much information right now, david, looking at the sex scandals, looking at the tax package, now you have russia out there. it's a lot in the in box right now. a lot there for the voters. and i always concern myself on the voter files from the 2016 election. these are people who did vote and are going to vote. and i contend to you right now that as far as tax package is concerned, that they are looking at 69% of americans do not itemize their deductions. so when you take a look at that, they'll get double the deduction they had on ts standard up to $12,000, double for married. i have a great respect for howard dean, a governor of vermont five times 11 years, balanced 11 budgets and cut

taxes twice. so he's coming from my wing of the party when we talk about go governing and taxes. so i don't think there is that much information out there. have you the moore race coming up in alabama and a lot for the voters to absorb. the scandals, whether it be in nbc, whether it be elected officials in washington, it's a lot. and i'm watching them from polling that we are doing right now, just turning it off. trump supporters aren't weak in the knees and still standing up because they don't care about this russia thing. >> let me ask you about the role of blind faith in the electorate. you look at this piece of legislation voted on by the senate last night, hear from the senate majority leader, he believes it's going to be deficit neutral and lead to more growth in this country. does that fly with you? do you think that's going to fly with members of your party? >> david, i agree. the tea party was born out of the deficit. and when howard dean flipped the

congress in 2006, republicans stayed home and didn't vote. then it morphed into another type of organization. so we always wonder where was everybody we ran up $5 trillion under george bush, another $10 trillion under barack obama which comes to 176 trillion in-house holds. now we are talking about the outrage of 1.5 trillion. i think until the voting public feels it in their income taxes that they have to payoff the debt, i'm not sure there is the outrage out there that i saw in 2006. >> howard dean, let me go back to the russia investigation and what we learned yesterday and the tweets we have seen this morning. how big a political issue is this going to be for the democratic party going forward? do you think democrat parties should engage in this issue as they hit the cam train trail for

2018? >> i would counsel to engage with the issue of what the tax bill is going to do. because it is going toeks panned the deficit traumatically. 42 economists polled by the university of chicago, all 4 two of them thought that the grow utah would be minimal and the deficit would be up by $1.5 trillion as did the joint fiscal office. so deficit is a deficit. mcconnell can say whatever he wants. as he and trump have. but the fact is this is a really bad thing in terms of deficit. unlikely to provide much growth. and over a five-year period because of the way they had to pay for this this is going to end up raising taxes on most middle class families. because they only last for five years because it's a fiscal gimmick. look, congress, kate and i are both relatively fiscally conservative, he's probably more conservative than i am, but i think long-term deficits of this kind are bad for everybody, particularly middle class people and poor people because they end

up paying the big hit at the end. >> thank you very much for the time. joining us on this saturday afternoon. thanks very much. we'll be right back. >> thank you. i saw the change in rich when we moved into the new house. but having his parents over was enlightening. ♪ you don't like my lasagna? no, it's good. -hmm. -oh. huh. [ both laugh ] here, blow. blow on it. you see it, right? is there a draft in here? i'm telling you, it's so easy to get home insurance on progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. patients that i see about dry mouth. they feel that they have to drink a lot of water. medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. i like to recommend biotene. it replenishes the moisture in your mouth.

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watching in an incredible way the biggest act of thievery in the modern history of this country. >> of course senator bernie sanders furious about this. that bill passed at around 3 in the morning on capitol hill and passed without a single democrat supporting it. what that could mean for you? double the standard election. eliminate the personal exemption and eliminate personal mandate. whether that's good for you depends who you ask. we'll do that right now with msnbc policy priorities former chief economist for joe biden. and also with me arthur laffer. let me start with you, art.

you were there during the reagan administration. last time we saw comprehensive tax reform. what do you make how this happened, the fact that a complete bill wasn't available to folks like me? voters? members of the senate? until well after 10:00 last night and vote took police a couple of hours later. >> very disgusting fundamental core. but we have a good tax cut there on the corporate tax from 35 to 20. there are some other features of the bill that i sort of like. i like getting rid of the mandate. a lot of other features i don't like. i especially don't like the delay of the tax cut to 2019. i this i that will cause benefits to defer their income and defer their production and there by cause a slower economy in 2018 which i'm afraid is going to happen. but the bill is pretty good. and the process was the same as it always has been. >> art, have you read it? are you comfortable with all that's in it? can you say you are fully aware of? >> no, i'm not fully aware of it. i don't think anyone is.

because they haven't decided it yet. it has to be go to conference before they have the vote. but i do know most of the features in there and detailed features in there and know them pretty well. and what i can say is that as a package, i this i it's positive and i think it's substantially positive and i laud the president and the congress for passing such a bill. it reminds me of kennedy and reagan all the way. >> there you go. let me ask you for your reaction what we saw here last night. talking about the corporate rate down to 20%. we heard from the president as going to new york, he would be willing to see a 22% corporate rate. how much does a percentage change like that matter? >> well, actually if you want to get a little technical. every percentage point in the corporate rate costs about $130 billion over ten years. so one of the reasons that this plan racks up a deficit of 1.5 or $1.4 trillion according to a

broad swath of estimates because of this large cut in the corporate rate. now one of the score keepers, the joint kplee on taxation, did what's called a dynamic score which they factored in growths. which is somewhat kosher thing to do and they told us it's going to add a trillion dollars to the deficit. so i think that's extremely problematic especially when we already have republicans going around saying, well, we are certainly going to have to cut spending, social security, medicaid, safety net programs, to offset these higher deficit costs. well, they are the ones responsible for the higher deficit costs. so this is really a two step play by them. and i think it will go down against middle and lower income families. >> i'm talking to both ph.d.s here. and art i want to ask you about something that the senate majority leader said this morningment quote, i'm totally confident this is a revenue neutral bill. i think it's going to be a revenue producer. i look at his confidence and see

him using the word i think. and i wonder how that rings with you, somebody who is in the academic trench getting ph.d. in economics. is that good enough. >> i think he's correct. i think it will provide net revenues, higher revenues just as it has been after all the major tax rate reductions. and frankly what these people didn't look at in any of the scoring models that jared mentions didn't look in the behavior responses, for example, dropping the rate less tax sheltering annie saturation. more companies coming back to the u.s. nothing to do with economic effects. solely with these people with lower tax rates will stop doing these other things and pay their taxes which is what we want them to do. >> i'll have you respond to that. >> let me respond to that. i have a very different view. and art is an old friend of mine but we have been arguing about this for a long time. >> i'm not that old i'm 77. >> okay.

a young friend. when i look at particularly the change to these pass through businesses, by the way most businesses now are pass through businesses. that means they pass through their profits over to their owners on the individual side of the tax code. so now both plans, house and senate, take that pass through rate down significantly. that creates a brand new big fat loophole. and i think we are going to see just a completely huge new tax avoidance industry where everybody who draws a paycheck, above a certain level, because only helps those at the top, marches into their employer on monday and says you are no longer dealing with wage and salary employee, you are now dealing with jared llp proprietorship and that's a big new fat loophole. don't you grew he with that? >> i sure do. pass throughs make it more attractive to use pass through entities. that's completely check.

but let me take you in the 86 tax act when we dropped the rate from 46% to 34%, c corporations which had been declining as a share of that bounced way back up in 86, 87, 88, so found a lot of the shelters why gotten rid of in this period. and i expect the same thing to occur here. >> we have to leave it there. i apologize. long time friends thanks for joining us here. >> thank you. >> still ahead the players in the russia investigation, what michael flynn plea deal tells us who can be next in robert mueller drag net. ...we've helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence.

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welcome back. i'm david gura. today he said they were lawful and nothing to hide. today the president says part of the reason for flying. former security adviser michael flynn pled guilty to lying about his conversations with kislyak. house and intelligence schiff retweeted trump, if that's true, mr. president, why did you wait so long to fire him. and why did you pressure director comey to let this go. could there be more players? and "the new york times" asked that question are they next.

joining me now is my panelists. she's a writer. let me start with you and get your reaction to the tweet from the president this morning. a lot of people speculating here that it gives more credence to charges of obstruction of justice. how do you react to what the president laid out on twitter? >> absolutely shock that he would say something like that. obviously the big issue in the obstruction of justice charge is what was the president thinking when he fired james comey. and this tweet gives us a lot of in sight into that because it suggests that the president knew at that time that comey had already lied to the fbi. and that's something that flynn's plea already boosts, right, because he's telling us of the transition team at the most senior levels knew he was having these conversations with russia and also knew that he told the fbi he wasn't. so if you put all of that together i think it does create much more reboobust obstruction

just charges. >> let me ask your opinion. not to tweet about this in particular. how is what the president saying square with folks who work with the president are saying about the news yesterday? >> right, people around the president have coached him for weeks please don't tweet about the russia probe and mueller. he has not always listened to that advice. they realize he was going to address this. this was one closest during the campaign and then of course national security adviser. so i people in the white house who of course are not thrilled the president did this today. but the president on twitter doesn't have the best relationship with the twut. it is possible that this was he tweeted this today, as sort of using the fbi lies, which flynn of course pleaded to, the idea that to retroactively justify the firing. we don't know. we have asked the white house for clarification. we are trying to get a sense of the timeline, better sense of the explanation why the

president tweeted this today. because you are certainly right, if he was aware much this back in february when the firing was done, that changes the story completely. >> let me ask you about some of the questions that were raised by that tweet. i quoted adam schiff there. what are you going to be looking forward as this investigation continues? >> itsds interesti's interestine president doesn't have great truth on twitter, not just on twitter, something we realize and coming to the for froent with michael flynn having to plead guilty just to lying. just the one charge we heard from so many legal experts is that you don't just look at that one lying charge and think that's it. you know that he's now cooperating. that he is going to have to give up all the information in terms of every person who might have been in a room for a conversation. everything that may have been discussed. and so i just think that we are consistently seeing that for this administration the people the president has surrounded himself by, they just keep lying. and you have to ask why.

if there is nothing here at this point there is nothing that points to collusion, right, just bad judgment. >> and we can discuss that. it's poor judgment and you can't tell if it's sheer stupidity, why would you lie to the fbi or if these people are used to acting with impunity and something applied to them here. >> asking the white house to react to the tweet this morning and word we are getting from white house staff sort of paraphrasing, what ty cobb the president's attorney had to say yesterday, let me ask you in the context of that, what kind of strategy do you see here from the white house going forward in light of all this aswegen to see speculation about who the senior official is or very senior official mentioned in the documents yesterday? >> well, i think you saw a glimpse of that, obviously, with the ty cobb statement. and then also what the president said no collusion, no collusion. >> and tricky thing to prove. >> collusion itself isn't a

crime. lots of other crimes which may involve cooperation between the russians and the -- sorry the campaign at that time. and i do think though that you have to think about, well, what did michael flynn actually plead to and how that impacts on the collusion issue. right. so he pled in the first instance to calling kislyak and saying, you know, don't react to the sanctions. these weren't sanctions about ukraine. these were sanctions that related to russia's attempts to interfere in our election. so it really does raise the possibility that there is a quid pro quo going on over here. and the reason why he wants to make sure that russia knows it not going to be punished is because he thinks he's gotten something from russia. so i think a lot more to this that meets the eye as you were saying. other people who are potentially going to be implicated. and you have this guy who had inside seat on all of the most critical conversations. >> help us with that.

what he might know and then absent from the documents yesterday any discussion of this caper to kidnap turkish cleric in pennsylvania. some detail about turkey but not the whole detail. what do you make about what was not in the documents? >> certainly is a spy thriller it feels with some of these court documents. in terms of what he's seen and could have seen, he is someone who, let's remember, from the spring, particularly from the summer on during the campaign, played an essential role. at every campaign rally for the now president rest of the year. he was in those meetings. he has had these preeted contacts with russian officials none of which he disclosed. he's had meet wings the very core of the transition team which then became the core of the white house team. that includes steve bannon. that includes vance priebus and jared kushner who a lot of people are looking at could be a target of mueller, someone who

has been in questioning for mueller's team, and someone who others witnesses who have come in say they have all been asked about jared kushner quite a bit. >> let me ask you about the israel, not sanctions but settlements vote in the u.n. that's complicated this as well. talking with allen who said look someone might see this as politically untoward but not illegal. what do you make of that? importance of jared kushner, michael flynn as well, reported they were taking a lot of interest in this issue, in particular. i don't know if it's possible to rate the things. but how do you see it playing out in the investigation as it goes forward? >> it's interesting, because that to me actually seems like more of an attempt to undermine what was foreign policy on the part of the obama administration than even the conversation about russia. i know people might disagree, but on the face that was a vote coming up before obama was expected to leave office. right. and so the sanctions had already

been put in place by the united states. and so this was that call was more of a plea, hey don't react yet. we'll be in office soon. things will change. just wait. this was actually trying to subvert and change the process what was happening at the u.n. where people were going to vote on that security counsel resolution to condemn israel and try to change it up. change the votes. get russia to at least vote against it or to convince other country toss vote against it. and i definitely see that as something that's disruptive. but again i'm not a legal expert. it's not surprising to me an incoming transition team would make contacts with other people in other countries so start laying the ground work what they will be doing. but if the logan act is something that may be archaic law that people want to start bringing up, then potentially legally there could be ramifications there. >> how do you process that? so the back story here is this was a vote something many countries wanted to bring up, u.s. blocked it from happening. here in the obama administration they would have the vote and

u.s. abstain from that. what are you looking for as that goes forward? is it quid pro quo or ideological determination by members of the transition team? >> i think you are looking at two tracks of legality if you will. so i think the call to kislyak related to sanctions is something you could tie into the election interference and potential liability. i think the issue around the vote in the u.n. security council on the other hand relates much more to this, at least norm, if not legal requirement, that incoming administrations don't directly tamper with the out going administrations policy. right. i mean you are going to be in office in just a few weeks, so hold your horses. and the whole logan act suddenly everybody's favorite topic. it is on the books. it hasn't been tested. and if i was a prosecutor, i would certainly consider putting it into the basket of charges.

>> thanks all fwrthree of you. i appreciate it. in new york. very good to see you all. thank you very much. and we'll be right back. constipated?

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continues to shake up clal as new revelations surface. nancy pelosi and others calling on ruben kihuen after an aide said he made repeated sexual advances toward her during the 2016 campaign.

an author janelle ross is with me and reporter for the washington post and we had the vote this week requiring folks who work on capitol hill, how much is the conversation changing on capitol hill about sexual abuse and sexual harassment. >> it is being discussed openly. that there have been a number of pieces of legislation with bipartisan support introduced and there are, as you mentioned, new requirements that most staffers and members of congress undergo regular training to try to prevent sexual harassment would suggest there is a renewed focus on these issues. >> judith, let me ask you about a statement by nancy pelosi about the allegations gep the nevada congressman and she said, the congressman should resign. are you seeing a change in the tone of leadership after that interview last week on ""meet

the press" with nancy pelosi. >> women are being listened to which is important and that responsibility is being taken and i think there is worry high up about various forms of liability too, whether it is literally the private liability of the corporate sector or a kind of moral liability over all. >> janelle, let me ask you about a comment from a nevada senator, catherine cortez mastro, the process must be open and transparent and have a time line that delivers justice. calls for reforming the ethics process on capitol hill. are we seeing the wheels start to turn on that. we've heard the rhetoric, are we seeing action on that front? >> yes. in the sense that a bill was introduced on wednesday which would overhaul the process by which sexual harassment complaints are investigating and resolved. so in that sense, certainly, yes. also it is worth noting again that that bill has bipartisan support and has bipartisan

sponsorship. >> judith, how about the issue of transparency here and news of an $86,000 slush fund payment and there are those that is signed confidentiality agreements and what will take to bring this out in the open on capitol hill. >> it will take public outrage and people are not happy with these public settlements and people will have to raise their voice and let them know it is intolerable. >> and congressman connyer has been hospitalized, expected to make a statement on his future within congress. he served for 27 terms. no secret there. what about how the generational divide here is resonating on capitol hill? >> to the degree that there are certainly some people who are firm and consistent defenders of congressman conyers and others who have been accused of wrongdoing, i suppose there is

evidence of generational divide but congressman conyers peers who have been clear about the disappointment and belief there needs to be a clear and significant reckoning. >> tahank you very much. we'll be right back. my dad's. grandma's. aunt stacy's. what are the reasons you care for your heart? qunol coq10 with 3x better absorption has the #1 cardiologist recommended form of coq10 to support heart health. qunol, the better coq10.

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that is it for us, i'm david guru and the news continues right now with richard lieuui.

>> good afternoon to you. i'm richard lui in new york city and we'll start with a stunning admission from president donald trump in the russia investigation. did trump know that former national security adviser michael flynn lied to the fbi back in january? flynn pled guilty in a federal court on friday to one count of making false statements to the fbi. and then we get this this afternoon in a tweet from president trump saying, i had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and the fbi. and the focus here -- the words -- the word "fbi" and flynn pled guilty and it is ashame because his actions during the transition were lawful and there was nothing to hide. he responded to questions about flynn. take a