tonight, michael flynn learns to sing. president trump's lawyer learns to tap dance, and things in congress, well, it's the same old routine. this is "kasie dc." >> welcome to "kasie dc," we are live from washington every sfrund 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. on the show tonight, michael flynn dominates the headlines but you some democrats who want to disrupt the president's agenda focus on the tax bill instead? we're joined by house

intelligence member eric swa we will. plus exposed alleged cases of sexual harassment in the halls of congress. we'll dig into secret settlements and talk to congresswoman sheri boos tose. and out of the shadows, meet the woman who won the first ever sexual harassment case against a congressman sft what did sthe get for her trouble? little more than a apology. but first, the spres lashing out at the fbi, the federal agency who employs more than 30,000 men and women who keep our nation safe the. president promised to bring its reputation back, said it was in tatters, the worse in the history. before that the president seemingly rewrote the narrative of why flynn was fired tweeting, quote, i had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and the fbi. he has pled guilty to those lies. it's a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. there was nothing to hide. but in march, he tweeted, quote, mike flynn should ask for immunity and that this is a

witch hunt excuse for big election loss by media and dems of historic proportion. now the president's personal lawyer john dowd is taking the fall for accusing flynn of lying to the fbi. dowd told nbc news that he drafted the post and then dictatesed to dan scavino to be published. dowd now says he is, quote, out of the tweeting business. james comey, however, very much in the tweeting business these days. he posted a quote just a little while ago saying, quote, i want the american people to know this truth. the fbi is honest, the fbi is strong, and the fbi is and always will be independent. and he source today to, quote, me, himself. joining me now, jean yore write are fore politico and the coauthor of "politico" playbook jake sherman, and the jeremy bash who i don't think has ever been in the tweeting business. nbc national and intelligence -- national security and

intelligence reporter ken delanian, and in new york, political correspondent for business insider natasha ber tran. thank you all so much for your time tonight. honestly, i don't know where to start with this story so ken i'm going to start with you to kind of put this in context. there has been -- we've learned so much over the course of the last 48 or so hours. >> yeah. >> so what are the top lines that we need to be focusing on, the big questions that need to be answered this week? >> well, look, we all expected that this was coming with mike flynn. we've been reporting for weeks at nbc news that robert mueller had enough evidence to charge in the case of mike flynn and his son. was still a shock, though, to see this man who was once a revered intelligence officer, a general who changed the way we fought in eye shh rauk and afghanistan show up to the federal court and plead guilty to a felony. but now the big question is, there's a lot of questions about the specifics which we can talk about around, you know, what he did with the russian ambassador. but to me, the big question is what does he know about russia

collusion? can he put donald trump in a meeting or in a conversation about those e-mails in the campaign? because that's the central question of the mueller investigation. it's interesting that, you know, mike flynn reached out to the russian ambassador to talk about sanctions during the transition. but the big question that has yet to be answered is donald trump, did anybody from the trump campaign coordinate with the russians over the hacked and leaked e-mails that may have influenced the outcome of the election here. >> and the reason why the president needs to be nervous about this development is because before a special prosecutor gives a guy like mike flynn a sweet deal, the flynn attorneys come in and offer a proffer and they say here is what my guy can tell new exchange for potentially no jail time and sparing his son. and so this isn't a hypothetical that mike flynn has information that goes to the very heart of this investigation, we know it by the fact that mike flynn was allowed to plead guilty to a single count. >> natasha, what do you think or what's your sense of what the motivations would be for mike

flynn to lie to the fbi about this? there's been a lot of kind of confusion. we knew quite some time ago that he had lied about something to the vice president of the united states. and of course that tweet kind of mud dig the waters further. but what's in it it for mike flynn to lie? >> it would have looked really bad for the trump administration to have been negotiating an easing of sanctions even before they took office in january. the obama administration kpeld 35 russian dip mots mats. they impoised harsh sanctions on russia. and for it to come out that other transition officials, the idea that they were actively working to undermine that in december before they were even in the white house, that would have made it look like, perhaps, they were paying russia back for something, perhaps they were trying to, you know, repay them for help to win the election. it just would have been horrible optics and i think that really gets to the heart of what mueller wants to know now. he never really was interested

in, you know, trying to figure out if mueller lied to the fbi, it was always end game for the end question for muler is why did he lie to the fbi and who directed him to do that. who directed him not only to speak to kislyak about the sanctions issue, but who possibly directed him to then lie to the federal agents about it. >> jake is herman, poe lit tickco's reporting that the white house was caught off guard fwhi, by what happened with flynn on friday if the what more do we know about this and we've talked actually a lot on this show about how the white house lawyers ty cobb have been trying to convince the president that this is is going to wrap up and be over with. it seems like they got knocked off balance. >> i'm not sure why the white house is caught off guard about this the at the pulled out of a joint agreement through which he was sharing information about the -- about the status of what he was talking about with mueller. i think who this really helps, in a weird way, is members on

capitol hill. their investigation is chugging on but mueller keeps get ahead of them and mueller keeps -- this is another chip to fall. and, frankly, it takes the pressure off members of congress who are investigating the situation at the same time. so i think this is a political win for republicans on capitol hill. >> i can just jump in here? i think it's important and natasha raised an interesting point perhaps flynn was lying because they thought it would look back. >> the negotiations. >> the negotiations with russia would look bad. that's some of what a benign view about why he lied. there's also a more sin nister view about why he lied which is perhaps he lied because he didn't want the fbi following the trail into what were the specific conversations between russia and the trump campaign about russian's help. we know the trump campaign knew that russia was helping, we know that they showed up to a june meeting with information to try to promote dirt on hillary clinton, and i think potentially flynn lied to basically try to

throw mueller off the trail and it didn't work. >> i can make one point here? i think what a lot of people are saying is maybe the trump campaign didn't know the rules of the road. these are political amateurs who didn't understand -- >> we've been hearing that for a long time. >> but someone like michael flynn is not an amateur. i mean, he does know what's appropriate and what's not appropriate in dealing with other foreign powers. i mean, you can make a case that maybe jared kushner didn't know what was going on or maybe donald trump jr. didn't know how to handle conversations with operatives from russia. it would be farfetched to think that a guy who spent his career in intelligence would not know that this is a strange thing to be zblog although he was somebody who the obama administration recommended not be rehired, if i -- >> that's very true. ands a guy who's been reckless and who's temperament has been called into question. people are fix atd on this question of how did he not know the nib was monitoring the russian ambassador and that those conversations would have

been recorded? he was the head of the defense intelligence agency and he did -- i'm actually going to argue it the other way. he's not necessarily an expert on what the fbi is doing domestically and he may have just been reckless about that and not as realized that his conversations were recorded. >> speaking of the fbi, jeremy bash, what's your sense of the morale inside the agency in they've been in the news quite a bit between the president's tweets and other reports about some thagts were working on these cases? >> this past week i went to the fbi's acts association dinner. the director was there, the deputy director was there, the senior cad drey of the bureau was there and i spoke to many former fbi agents and to a person they said that they are horrified and pof fend by the way the president is describing the men and women of the fbi, that they think jim comey was popular and one even said to me wildly popular and remains so. and they're very strongly backing the effort of law enforcement to get to the bottom of russian interference and

meddling in the 2016 election. >> what's your sense of the constitutional conflicts? what's their sense based on your conversations? >> i mean, obviously the president has been trashing the intelligence community at large for quite some time, but it seems to me that going after the fbi might raise unique constitutional law enforcement related questions. >> well, of course the fbi say tool of our government and it assists the president and the senior leaders of our country to protect our nation. and his first job as president, every president as commander and chief is to protect the country. >> jake, you mentioned members on capitol hill. i want to talk about that a little bit. the top democrat says that this is all beginning to feel like obstruction of justice. >> i think what we're beginning to see is the putting together of case of obstruction of justice. i think we see this in the indictments, the four indictments and pleas that have just taken place and some of the comments that are being made. i see it most importantly in

what happened with the firing of director comey and it is my belief that that is directly because he did not agree to lift the cloud of the russia investigation. that's obstruction of justice. >> that's on top of this story from "the new york times" that over the summer the president repeatedly urged top republican senators to end their russia investigation. the paper sorsd a half dozen lawmakers and aides including senate intelligence chairman richard burr who went on the record saying, quote, it was something along the lines i hope you can conclude this as quickly as possible mr. burr said the he said he replied to mr. trump when we have exhausted everybody we need to talk to, we'll finish. this morning president tweeted i never asked comey to stop investigating flynn. just more fake news covering another comey lie. here's what james comey said under oath earlier this summer.

>> this is the president speaking. i hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting flynn goe. he is a good guy. i hope you can let this go. now those are his exact words, is that correct? >> correct. >> and you wrote them here and you put them in kwoequotes? >> correct thank you for naet did not direct to you let it go. >> not in his words, no. >> do you know of any case where a person has been charged for obstruction of justice or for that matter any other criminal offense where this -- they said or thought they hoped for an outcome? >> i don't know well enough to answer. and the reason i keep saying his words is i took it as a direction. >> right. >> i mean, this is the president of the united states with me alone saying i hope this. i took it as this is what he wants me do. >> going back to that time story, intelligence chairman richard burr also told the times

he didn't feel pressured by the president chocking it up to someone who has, quote, never been in government. and heres what house speaker ryan said on june 8th the day comey testified. >> of course there needs to be a grief independence between doj, fbi, and a white house and a line of communications established. the president's new at this. he's new to government. and so he probably wasn't steeped in the long-running protocols that establish the relationships between doj, fbi, and white houses. he's just new to this. >> burr wasn't the only person who was pressured. according to times, so was majority leader mitch mcconknoll and roy blunt also on the intelligence committee. their conversation report lid came aboard air force one with the president when they went to missouri and he was asked to, quote, wrap up the investigation. according to a republican official. blunt was also said not to be bothered. the white house seds there is no

evidence of collusion and that they've cooperated with the probe and at no point have they attempted to apply undue influence on committee members. natasha, i want to be good back to you on this. what -- what does all this mean for the credibility of the investigations on -- on capitol hill and what kind of position does it potentially put the white house or the president? does it potentially put him in legal jeopardy? >> i think we have to take a step back and realize that they're trying to conflate two different things. they're trying to say that the obstruction case is not viable because maybe perhaps trump did not know that the fbi had actually interviewed -- had actually interviewed flynn and that flynn had lied to them and, you know, that he did not fire james comey because he wanted to end the investigation. but the fact is he told left ter holton nbc news that he fired comey because of the russia thing, he said it was on his mind. so the obstruction case really seems like it would be a slam dunk both for congressional

investigators and for mueller just because of trump's own words. and it's really the flip answersive the way that trump has approached the entire russian investigation and i would add russia's election interference as a whole that will ultimately be his downfall. >> jake, what could you make of this. >> few things. i think that any report that the white house has any sofrtd control or wye to reign in trump's calls or tweeting is complete nonsense. the spres calling members of congress and is requesting things that inside the bounds of our government are not appropriate. this is just because you're new to the job and you're new to the arena doesn't mean that you have a pass at what is generally appropriate. i mean, paul ryan said he doesn't know that the president might not have known that it was inappropriate to direct the fbi to do something or not do something. that is not an kplooexcuse for

certain kinds of behavior. number two this is something he sed said publicly, he said this to lester holt so this is not outside of the realm that -- we know he thinks this. we know he doesn't like the russia investigation. i think put those two things together and it's a believable -- this doesn't seem outside the realm of the things the president would think and do. >> the ignorance of the pres presidency is not a defense. >> hold those thoughts. we're going to have much more to come. stay with us. we're going to talk about all of this with congressman eric swalwell, he's standing by in california. and later tonight stay tuned foreheadliners, michael flynn that's tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. but first we'll dig into a watershed week for sexual harassment claims on capitol hill. and tox reform. with former senator kelly a iot, she'll stop by. and as we go to break, one of

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if i were president-elect of the united states, i wouldn't let flynn in the white house let alone give him a job. i didn't think that he was someone who would bring benefit to the president or to the administration. and i made that very clear to candidate trump and i made it very clear to president-elect trump, that are was my opinion, my view. >> governor chris christie setting the record straight. joining me now democratic congressman from california and a member of the select committee

on intelligence, swalwell. congressman it's great to see you thank you for your time. >> of course. good evening. >> i of course have to start by asking but your investigation and where you are in the process. you're going to hear from donald trump jr. later this week which, as i know you and i have talked about many times represents kind of the culmination of your investigation into this meeting that was held at trump tower. you've now spoken been almost thaev was in that room. what are your top questions for the president's son? >> yeah, so donald trump jr.'s relevant because he demonstrates a willingness and eagerness to receive ill gotten e-mails from hillary clinton, not just in the june 9th e-mail exchange, but also his direct message exchanges with wikileaks where they are communicating back and forth, they're asking him to tweet or to have his father tweet and then we see that directive is followed by donald trump. so, you know, we want to know

what knowledge did his father have about donald trump jr.'s eagerness and willingness to work with the russians. also what relationship did donald trump jr. have in the past with the russians? >> he has stated a number of times that a lot of the trump organization investments are coming from russia which we have long suspected and, you know, having final relationships is a method that russian intelligence services have used to try and coopt individuals. we want to understand the full depth of the relationships but also was what was going on during the campaign. and what dr. donald trump sooen yore know. and also he dictated donald trump jr.'s response to the june 9 willing meeting. so he was right at the center of that and so really understanding that. >> congressman, has donald trump jr. been fully cooperative in your view with your committee or

where are have you encountered snags or problems with trying to get him to come in? >> most of the witness vds been allowed to come in in a voluntary construct, which i don't think is very helpful because a number of them have decided on their own to just end the interview. jared kushner called it quits at about three hours and the democrats had only questioned him for about an hour and a half. erik prince did the same thing last week. he just said, you know what? i'm done, i'm not answering your questions around pretty important issues. and donald trump jr. is coming in under a voluntary, you know, arrangement and he has not been required to turnover documents and we have not suspected relevant documents for his testimony. i don't think that's how you get to the bottom of this. i don't think you take these individuals who failed to disclose contacts in the past at their word. they're not worthy of that anymore. >> congressman swalwell, jeremy bash here. you guys are looking at the big issue of how much leverage does the russian federation have over

american foreign policy. what's your view of that? does russia have leverage over our president? >> well, they certainly were able to get a response from general flynn right after president obama had put sanctions in place for what they did in the interference campaign. an immediate response by general flynn. and then of course the stipulation of facts in his guilty plea shows that he was talking to individuals, senior transition team individuals at mar-a-lago. so i think when you look at the number of people, it's nearly a dozen now who had prior relationships and contacts with the russians throughout the campaign and then failed to disclose them or outright lied about them, you have to ask what exactly did the russians have on the trump team, what was the trump team expecting in return, and why were they acting so favorably for the russians right after the intelligence community assessed that the russians feared in our elections? >> congressman, ken delanian has a question four. ken. >> yeah, congressman, i want to

ask you about how partisan the house investigation has become. i've been led to believe it's gotten to the point where the republicans are running the show, they're deciding which witnesses to call, they're not giving you democrats much input. is that the occasion and are you concerned that they are going rush through this and end this investigation before all the right questions are asked, in your view? >> well, we all want to get through it as quickly as possible because we have another election coming up and we're not seeking criminal indictments, we're just trying to protect the freedom to choose so that we can tell the american people how we were so vulnerable. the biggest i think obstacle has been that witnesses are not being compelled to answer questions, they can decide on their own what they want to tell us and they're not being confronted with outside documents. that's important because george poppa do lous demonstrates why you need to be very determined in how you approach these witnesses. in january he was approached by the fbi, guys with badges and guns, he lied to them. february aprofrpd again, he lied to them. only once they got facebook and skype logs and they approached

him a third time did he come around and tell them that he was traveling to london and italy and meeting with russian who's had dirt on hillary clinton. we have to be determined, we can't just take them at their word. and right now that's the course -- that's the spirited of this investigation. >> congressman eric swalwell, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> still ahead, former senator kelly ayotte joins me to talk about the tax bill that could help reshape the u.s. economy. ♪ you don't like my lasagna? no, it's good. -hmm. -oh. huh. [ both laugh ] here, blow. blow on it. you see it, right? is there a draft in here? i'm telling you, it's so easy to get home insurance on progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto.

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ayot . welcome back to "kasie dc." i'm joined now by former new hampshire kelly. senator ayotte, thank you so much for take the time to be with us tonight. i appreciate it. >> thanks, kasie. good to be with you. >> i want to start by talking the president's tweets over the weekend. he has been talking about criticizing the federal bureau of investigation in a very intense way. you are a former prosecutor, former state attorney general, is this the right thing for the

president of the united states to be doing? >> kasie, let me just state the obvious. this is not a good thing for him to do or a smart thing for him do, especially with what happened on friday with mike flynn, with special counsel mueller's investigation because none of this can be helpful, as you look at this going forward. so i think like many people i would tell him to get off twitter on this. >> let's talk a little bit more about that flynn investigation, some of the discussion on the sunday shows this morning susan collins saying that this mueller investigation might bear fruit. where do you think the special counsel is going and what injury level of concern for the president's exposure on this? >> well, certainly mike flynn, he could have been charged with other offenses and now that he has this cooperating agreement it's very significant. the question is really, again, is there any evidence of

collusion. certainly mike flynn would likely be in a position to know that or whether this goes deeper into the white house. so this is a very significant development and we'll have to understand -- i'm assuming as a former prosecutor that special counsel mueller would not have made this cooperation agreement with flynn because could have charged him with other things, there that there must be some information that he's interested in. >> you, yourself, made a decision when you were running your own re-election campaign that ended up being a difficult one as, of course, the president was swept into office, but democrats won congressional -- you're congressional race. what is your advice to the republican party right now on how to deal with this president? do you think that enough of them are being -- are they being aggressive enough in criticizing him or would you advise hem based on your experience to step back farther than they are? >> you know, i would tell them to be themselves and i would tell them that when they can

work with him on policy that they believe in that's good for the country they should do it. but when he does things that they don't agree with or are inconsistent with his values, they should be very direct about it. >> one of the conversations that we've been volunteering as a country is about sexual harassment in the workplace, in politics, kind of across the board. and there is a real reckoning. >> right. >> i want to ask you first of all about your own experiences. did you have any me too experiences in your working life or especially in the congress? >> no. i can't say that i've been a victim. but i have to tell you, kasie, i was a prosecutor, a former attorney general, and as i look at what's happening in washington, i don't see the type of accountability that there should be. and when we look at the media, you have matt lauer being fired, you have charlie rose, bill o'reilly, but in congress there doesn't seem to be the kind of

standardized handling of these cases and this has to be taken much more seriously than i see happening right now in d.c. >> how would you apply that standard to the president. united states? >> well, kasie, in my campaign i made the decision not to vote for him and to write in mike pence because when those tapes came out. so i've been very clear on this, and i've been very consistent. but as i look at what's happening, whether it's congressman kanye or roy moore, it seems like both parties aren't taking this with the level of seriousness that they should. >> let's change gears just a little bit and talk about the massive tax reform plan that just passed the senate late into the night on friday night, saturday morning. this is a bill that republicans are basically assuming is going to grow the economy enough to make up for almost $1.5 trillion

it could add to the national debt. i want to take a look at something you said earlier when you were a member of congress and then we'll talk about it. take a look. >> we should be in the united states senate today and next week talking about how we are going to put together a blueprint that makes sure that we do not continue to borrow from countries like china, that we do not continue to enslave our children with the debt that this country is accumulating. and we know that if we do not address this, that the greatest country in the world will go bankrupt. and we do not have a tax problem in this country, we have a spending problem. >> would you have voted for this tax bill? >> kasie, i have to till you probably should have also looked at my speeches where i talked about us having the highest corporate tax rate in the

developed world. because one thing that i see that this bill can do, i don't like everything in this bill, but i will tell you that dropping the corporate rate and having our companies where we have a code now that's encouraging us to have our companies have money overseas and bring that home, i think that will have a positive impact on the economy. so we have to see whether this bill actually has the economic growth that republicans think it will. but i have no doubt that we had to deal with that business tax rate because it's not been good in terms of keeping jobs here and investment here. >> do you think that the process that republicans are using to push this through is one that you consider to be valid? i mean, democrats have complained that there's writing scrawled in the margins of the bill, that they only got a couple hours to take a look at it. do you think was handled the right way? >> it's a little hard to hear democrats talk about the process after what happened with the obamacare and the healthcare

bill. so, you know, that one, the criticism coming from them, they're always can be a better process. they did have a hearing before the finance committee and a markup of that portion of the bill coming forward. listen, i'd always like to see more time and a better process for any bill. but it's -- to hear democrats criticizing the process is a little much given the way that they've handled it when they were in charge. >> kelly ayotte, thank you so much for your time tonight, i appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> still to come, we're going to introduce out to first woman to ever win a sexual harassment case against a member of congress and why the good ol' days have changed but not that much. "kasie dc" is back after this. >> the speak worry like to put you on the committee anyway. >> okay. well, if anyone asks what the hell i'm doing on the ethics committee just tell them i like chasing women and drinking whisk i can and weapon are underrepresented. pon are

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when i was fwhork congress in the '90s for congress bhan wolf just a few years after de rinna there were were members like good time charlie wilson who was hardy har har. >> ms. >> yes, sir. >> it seems to me walking around that it's almost all women work here and that they're all very pretty. is that common? >> well, congressman wilson has an expression. he says you can teach him to type but you can't teach him to grow [ bleep ]. >> welcome back to "kasie dc." and in washington that in some ways has changed very little since then. in 1988, a congressional staffer filed a sexual harassment claim against jim bates of california. a democrat who denied claims against him. he won re-election with 60% of

the vote. a year later they found that bates did indeed harass his staff, but he received little more than a slap on the wriflt and was forced to apologize. in 19901, the woman who filed the complaint detailed what happen with affiliate knsd. >> people came over, put his legs up against mine so that they were between his legs and started riding up and down and kind of grinding and doing this. anden bent down and tried to grab my hands and i'm trying to show him specific things on the legislation. he embarrassed me in front of a constituent by looking at me and then look at my breasts. we were in a close situation and looking at my breasts and making the comment, yeah, they do look good. he told me had he a fantasy about this one staff member and i don't want to use her name, but he wanted to push her up against the wall, hit her in the mouth until blood trickled from her mouth. that concerned me. the next breath was when i get -- when i -- if i come to

your apartment, what is the first thing that i will see when i walk into the room? is it your bed? >> flash forward to later that year amid the media circus of the clarence thomas hearings, e she stepped out of the shadows on the culture of sexual harassment inside the capital. >> why didn't you speak out about this? >> oh, i would be fired. i mean, no one did. i mean, it wasn't just me in the office that was. i replaced someone who was literally there for three months. he grabbed her fanny, excuse me, her buttocks in a committee meeting and she quit after three months. i know i sound hostile when i say this, there was no woman who came out supportive. i didn't get any calls from any congresswoman saying go for it, everybody was silent. there was no speeches on the floor. i got support even from male staffers because they realize it

was just another how staffers on the whole are treated on the hill. >> the things that she's gone through may help our daughters and the other women on the hill now. >> there is better recourse now for people -- >> it's still not good enough and i say this. as difficults that week has been, to bring the issue of sexual harassment, whether it's on the hill, i mean that's so many employees, whether it's now the secretary of labor saying every business in america, i don't care if it's nbc, i don't care if it's a congressional office, whatever it is should be looking, should be asking for men, for women alike, a workplace where you can be free of being treated like trash is an absolute minimum. >> good question for jean, we're almost out of time. you find it ironic some of the men standing up talking about fighting sexual harassment are some of the worst offenders here on capitol hill? >> it certainly is because nobody wants ton admit that they condone sexual harassment. so everyone's against it it's just let's educate people on whoa is it and get rid of it. >> that conversation could have aired on cable news basically anytime in the last week but it

is now more than 25 years old and the woman that you just saw in those clips joins me now, de rine an ver tuesday so he. also marin keogh began and d.c. chief shawna thomas. thank you all for being here and der rinna, especially to you. it's quite something to sit, i'm going to show my age here about i was 6 years old when you were having that consblation great. thank you. i needed that. and i justify -- what going through your mind as you're watching the conversation that we're having now? >> i think it is -- it's the same. it's been actually 28 years and it has just been the same. i don't know what to say. people are not coming forward, the staffers aren't coming forward, they're not taking care of themselves. i don't know what -- i don't know why. i do know why, it's a fear of a lot of things. but it's just -- it's such a sad commentary. >> you -- one of the things that stood out to me in watching you

talk through this there was that you felt like you came forward and there was nobody behind you. >> nobody was there. now supported him. the first time awlound all the accusations taim came out, now still stuped him. he never contacted anybody, never contacted know ask us anything. i mean, now. and that was -- now was a very dig deal way back then. >> yeah. >> but no congressional members came out. as in anita hill, no one came down the steps for me. i remember senator -- i think she was still a representative mcclust sky and jim moran came to one press conference, that was it. >> mary, you've written a lot about this and you and i have spent a lot of time talking about what it's like to kind of work in the halls of the capital and what people deal with. do you -- do you think anything -- is there anything different about the conversation we're having now than the one that we had in '91? >> well, one i just want to say i'm grateful that we're having the conversation at all, but i think that, you know, the jury

is still out on whether or not anything has actually changed. we're seeing some consequences for some men, right, a very small select number of men in positions of power but what we're seeing in congress is you have this chicken and egg problem. so you have already today mitch mcconnell was saying that the people of the state of alabama should decide whether roy moore is elected to the senate. so already sort of walking back this idea that we're going to expel him from the senate if he's elected. you have this problem that the lawmakers say they want to lead, for all this talk of zero tolerance they're already back away from it. and then we have vofrs that say maybe we do tolerate this. maybe it's not so bad because the other side is worse. so you have this tribalism that's corrosive. >> the roy moore test which will be a test if he wins, they clearly have to seat him if he wins, and that's fine. but do they like the next day

open an ethics investigation? do they go down that path? do they keep going and showing that they want to make the place congress, the senate a safe place for women to work? and i think that's up to senator mcconnell and a bunch of other people if they want to continue what we are seeing. >> one question i have, and i wonder what kind of your experience is. the people who have in congress who have elevated this conversation, this is not to say that there aren't men who have -- who have focused on it and who have been in the right place as far as many of these women are concerned, but jackie spear, barbara comstock, these women members of congress and i remember asking a question of chuck schumer at a press conference whether this was a problem and he talked a little bit about it. but maria cantwell stepped into the frame and said women are finally here. there were only two women senators when anita hill was doing these hearings. there are now 17. that's still nowhere close to a hundred or 50.

but at the same time it strikes me that perhaps that's the difference or one of the differences. do you think that's true? >> most definitely that's the difference. i have talked recently with representative comstock and there is really an attempt, and i am jaded as they come in this. but there is something there. there is a movement and going after looking at the congressional record and all that with respect to the resolution that they just passed. men were coming out, i mean, male members were coming out and saying this. so, yes, i think the fact that there are more female members there and are sensitive and have experienced this themselves i think that has significantly helped. >> marin, were you surprised at how nancy pelosi handled the john conier's situation? it did strike me as different from what we're seeing on the republican side. joe barton announced he's not going to seek re-election after it appeared he had extramarital

affairs, they appear to be consensual at least that's what seas he's said. but the speaker has spoken to him behind the scenes and they've done something about that. pelosi really put herself in a tough spot. >> democrats are in a position where they said we are the party that cares about this stuff, we take this stuff very seriously and so these are opportunities for them to put their money where their mouth is, right? she did take a couple of days, right, when the allegations first came out. but i think politicians lead from behind. they wait until a political moment has come and then they jump out in front of it. there seems to be recognition on the democratic side where you can't say we care about this stuff and then not do anything when members of your own party are accused of it. >> yeah. >> the question is do young staffers believe that's the atmosphere they are starting to work in. and think we've talked about this before but if each office is in control of everything and each office has its own rules and you don't know and your job is to protect the member of congress because that person, if they're not there you may not have a job, then are people

going to continue to feel comfortable to speak out and is that culture kind of a bit of secrecy in each office going to change? i'm not sure we are quite there yet. >> yeah. i'm sorry, go ahead. >> i was just going to say, i somewhatchange? i'm not sure we're quite there yet. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> i somewhat agree with you on that, but you have to understand in the offices, you frequently have people from the district, young women from the district that are working. that brings more of a community. i know that with me more people would have come out except for the fact that they had family back home. if they did, they didn't want to go home after being fired, because it was a wonderful pla is to work, something prestigious, not it mention leaving your careers. that was a given. but they didn't -- they were ashamed of putting up with this for so long. the question came up with how long has this been going on? well, a year.

you let him do what for a year? there were so many things back then that stopped and i think to this day stops women from coming forward. >> you're nodding? >> the culture the fear is completely still in play today. we've been reporting on this sing the harvey weinstein allegations came out. you see so many women on capitol hill that were trained from day one to never speak to the press. never bring negative attention to their side or their congress, and people feel this will be the end of their career. that has not changed at all. >> and it's not that different in the media. we could totally deny that, if you are in a situation where, you know, people who are at the top of their game and your job is to support them, you worry about coming forward. you know, we've seen this with a lot of other people, you worry about your own job and are you worth keeping around if you're going to say something? >> and anything where there's a wide disparity in power, this

has become a major problem. thank you so much for taking the time to come in. a. one last bit of irony. the person who wrote the "new york times" story the game that congressman jim bates drew that rebuke, was mike at d. and he was forced to resign one month ago over allegations of sexual misconduct. later on the show, we'll get a accomplice look at the power list for 2018. jake sherman has that, still to come. of the damage and voila! voila! i wish my insurance company had that... wait! hold it... hold it boys... there's supposed to be three of you... where's your brother? where's your brother? hey, where's charlie? charlie?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. i just drank tons of water a proall the time,

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under voters head to the polls. there's a mixed picture of where things stand. a "the washington post" poll has jones up by three points, with you a cbs news poll out this morning has the complete opposite, moore up by six. here's another interesting point in that poll. 71% of alabama republicans say the allegations against roy moore are false. since those allegations came to light. he's faced calls to get out of the race. at one point it was mvp mcconnell, but this morning he appeared to soften that stance a bit. >> do you believe that judge moore should be in the senate? >> i'm going to let the people of alabama make the call they're going to make their decision a week from tuesday. >> mcconnell went on to say, should moore get elected it would be up to the ethics committee to decide to open an investigation. in our next hour, the latest

reporting inside robert mueller's investigation. plus a big week ahead for donald donald trump jr., but what about michael flynn jr. another hour of "kasie dc" is ahead.

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we knew it would be a busy week. more stories of sexual misconduct. >> a plan to replace senior tillerson. >> a twitter fight with the country's most important ally. >> the guilty plea from michael flynn. north korea fired another missile. >> we've seen a stream of outbursts. he referred to senator elizabeth warren against at with a saturday quote he had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and the fbi.

>> his personal lawyer john dowd has said he actually wrote the tweet. >> what we're beginning to see is the putting together of a case of obstruction of justice. >> i would be careful if i were you. >> progress on the tax bulletined at a brisket pace. >> i'm have i optimistic about it. >> were you able to read the entire bill before you voted on it. >> i'm not going to say i read every single her on every single page. >> we followed the regular order. >> if that was regular order, i would hate to see something else. welcome back to "kasie dc." my panel is back with me. shauna thomas, senior writer for politico jake sherman, msnbc national security analyst and former chief evident staff at the cia and diplomat of defense, jeremy bash, and ken delanyian,

and joins us from new york nick confess ore. >> let's start with the tax bill. we saw mitch mcconnell talking about that a bit. walk us through -- you you this this would get finished before christmas? that's my sense of it, but there are still, i suppose, some snags, potentially along the way. >> there are some snags, i think the problem that susan collins extracted is not a very firm promise. i expect a lot of pressure from democrats on that point between now and a final vote, but look, the party needs to do something in cutting taxes is almost the last thing they can agree on doing at all, i expect they'll push through this, but how many bad easter eggs will keep popping up? things that even republicans didn't know was in the bill.

i think there's more and more of those. the question is, how bad are they? flagrant? danieling the bill's prospects and how much proish can democrats use to put -- with the provisions that look bad? >> jake, what's year assessment? >> but remember, the government shuts down this friday. >> right. i almost forgot. but i think -- but i do want to say once they get into this prolonged negotiation between the house and senate bills, we spend a lot of time in the house, we don't know how the people will react to changes to their bill. they've been all bought into this bill for several weeks now, and any change to it will be a learning process, at least with many house republicans, but what nick said is right. they do believe that despite very bad public polls on this bill, and it's bad, really bad, that they have to pass something before the end of the year,

because they have nothing else to talk about, but the end of the year is kind of a false construct. they really don't need to pass anything before the end of the year, but the president set this up that anything short of that would be seen as a failure. i seem to remember democrats doing that on something else. what was that? affordable, affordable something -- i don't notice. >> if their defense, they did send about almost a year debating the ample and car act, though they did pass a big very different from what they passed in the and all of that. i know the year end is a false construct, but the roy moore factor makes the date of their election and then trying to seat a senator as fast as they're going to try to seat a senator, it does sort of push -- they do have a date to push up. those is a right-hand and should want -- >> this is the most complicated december we have ever seen in

washington, or at least in my ten years, maybe not ever. they have to fund the government, pass the tax bill, renew the massive children's program, they have supplemental spending bills to help places like texas, florida and puerto rico that are still trying to recover, and they're trying to raise spending caps to deal with what republicans consider need atmilitary funding. for a congress that we have all watched for many years struggle with basket functioning of governing, this is a very, very complicated kind of myosake of issues that they have to contend with. >> and of course, the political nature of them forcing this does not help get democrats on board for all those other things. we're going to switch gears and talk about the other major story we've been covering already, a new articles takes you best hind the curtain of robert mueller as investigation, describing a process taking witnesses into a windowless, with two and three-person teams

of agent take terms prettying for answers. the post writes often listening in is the special counsel himself, who sit quietly along the wall. of course, of course, michael flynn is seemfully mueller's star witness, pleading guilty to a felony count of lying to the fbi, something that film himself accused hillary clinton of doing throughout the presidential campaign. >> i'm getting tired of the corruption and the criminal behavior that we see coming out of the clinton campaign. i mean, it's unbelievable. >> the level of corruption, the criminal behavior, all these things that are going on, i mean, it's just unbelievable. >> hb had been did exact the same, lied to the fbi under oath. unbelievable. unbelievable. >> hillary clinton lied on the fbi under oath. so did michael flynn, apparently. >> and now michael flynn, to paraphrase a political consultant mike murphy wakes up

every day how can he please bob mueller. that's not a great image for this white house, because he was in every important meeting, and every one for the national security the first three weeks. so you question remains, what does he have to say in, but i think he's the low-hanging fruit. him and pal manafort. i think there's more in front of us. >> i agree with that. first two big setbacks over the last 48 hours, first mike flynn flipped and he's going to turn state's 6th and testified in the inner circle, maybe even against the president himself, but also important authorities the president confessed over twitter. he basically wrote a tweet he knew he had done it after at felony had been committed. the fbi was properly investigating a felony, and despite that, maybe even because of that, the president fired the

fbi director. that's textbook obstruction of justice. >> can we talk about that tweet that jeremy bash just mentioned for a second? the president coming out and saying, social 9 acknowledge you now we have john dowd coming out and saying, well, it's the first and only tweet i've dictated. but there it is what is your -- what is the level of damage the president has done with that tweet? >> well, first of all, the cover story here smells pretty stinky. that was a classic trump tweet. second of all, it's very strange to me that the president's lawyer, of all people, would draft the tweet that inkarim nate him totally in obstruction of justice, of all the people you would tweet ---o make that mistake, it would not be the president's own lawyer. it's probably easy to find out

exactly who it was drafted on and tweeted from, but look, it was terribly damaging. it bask lay has the president without quite realizing it, essentially admitting he knee something terp had hard, and pushing out the head of the fbi to stop an investigation of that wrong act. >> i was going to say -- >> i love this. >> incredibly short-sighted strategy. if in fact this was trump and not his lawyer, robert mueller will get to that in short order, so was what the point of sort of the lawyer throwing himself under the bus. >> i think dowd will have to withdraw, he cannot be a lawyer and witness in the same case and he'll have to see who drafted the tweet. >> and can dowd -- there -- there's no way he could avoid becoming a witness under your scenario. >> he claimed he wrote it, i think they have to look at the forensic evidence.

also while on the campaign trail, trump himself hammered home a particular pledge. >> mr. trump, you have repeatedly deflected calls for specific national security or defense policy plans, with the claim you will ask the best people. >> we have to get the best people. >> the best people. i would get the best people. >> the best people. >> we're going to use our best people. >> the best people in the world. >> our best people. >> i know the best people. >> the best people. so how did the president go from hiring the best people to firing his national security adviser? trump said in part, quote -- i had to final general flynn, was he lied -- sorry, back in may, he told "nightly news" anchor lester hold this. >> my white house counsel came to me. they had i believe two meetings, and we ultimately fired, but we fired for a different reason.

>> you're talking about general flynn. >> because of lying to the vice president? >> yes, but everything plays into it, but we fired him because he said something to the vice president that was not so. >> so this tweet adds a layer to the interview that the president also knew he lied to the fib at the time. >> exactly. and then they would know that flynn was in much bigger trouble than just lying to the vice president, who then went on television and repeated that lie. and then you have to wonder, when you start to look at the dates of everything, okay, so is that why he fired comey, or he knew that comey could do something about the investigation and he knew flynn had lied to the fbi, so what does that all mean? it keeps pointing -- it seems to keep pointing to obstruction of justice, but i'm not a lawyer, and i think there's other who can explain it better, but the calendar starts to point to the

president knowing more than we originally thought the president himself knew. >> here's another piece of context for this. mike flynn was portrayed as a lone rogue actor metering with -- what we learned from this guilty plea is he coordinated this with senior members of the trajz session team, the open remain question is was donald trump briefed on this? trump said he wasn't, but he's down in mar-a-lago,i nots credible to a lot of people he wasn't -- >> and also somebody who speaks to almost everybody at all times. he's a very social person who likes to be the center of the orbit. so say he didn't know what was going on in the early days of his burgeoning administration would be something that few people would believe. >> can i ask you, jeremy or ken, k.t. mcfarland, she's been referred to as flynn's brain, how does she fit into this puzzle? >> she was the deputy national

security adviser. importantly in these court documents, she's the senior official working down at mar-a-lago with the transition team, who is talking to flynn on a day in/day out basis, basically relaying the instructions from the president and his team you should do this deal with the russians. i think it's incredulous that the president-elect didn't know about it. that's not the open question. the open question is, was there some other discussion, hey, they helped us in the election, we have to work with them and do a deal with them. >> so at times the administration that is thought to pin flynn's transgressions on the previous occupants. ty cobb was careful to know that flynn was a former obama administration official. on friday cnn reported that white house sources said that flynn's can everything with the ambassador came with the blessings of the obama administration. james clapper dismissed that as absurd. but long before that, the white

house thought to pass the buck on responsibility for flynn's vetting, including the payments he got in 2015 from r.t. >> his clearance was last reissued by the obama administration in 2016, with the full knowledge of his activities that occurred in 2015. >> i do feel badly for him. he served the country, a general, but just remember, he was approved by the obama administration at the highest level. when they say we didn't vet, well, obama i guess didn't vet. he was approved at the highest level of security by the obama administration. >> did you know he had had -- received payments from the russian government -- >> no, from the turkish government? >> no, but obama perhaps knew. he had clearance from the obama administration. a lot of reactions. >> under the president's theory that flynn was merely an obama administration official, so was general manage mastest, general

kelly, they all served under the previous administrations. didn't he warn the trump officials about general flynn? and that maybe he might not be the best guy for one of these jobs in the administration? >> yes. and also basically -- he didn't actually -- >> mike flynn was fired by the joint chief of staff. career professional, all military officers. and because of incompetent. donald trump is making that charge there that he went to moscow and was paid for that trip. that's true, but the problem is he didn't disclose he was paid. he's under investigation. so they couldn't know what w5u7bd disclosed. >> nick, jump in here, talk a bit too about the relationship between flynn and the president and president trump, how it evolved. there was this sort of sense of part of why the president may

have talked to jim comey about this in the if you were is he developed this extraordinary loyalty, that perhaps michael flynn refused to flip. how did this come to be and then crumble? >> i think the relationship was based on two factors. the first was their shared feelings about islam and the threat of radical islam. they both had an apocalyptic idea about the threat of the muslim religion on their own shares. they share that alarmist feeling. it became part of now president trump's speech on the campaign trail, and in tulane he found a decorated officer. who validated the way he felt and what he was already seeing on the campaign trail. flynn i think found in president trump some redemption. he had been fired in a humiliating way. and all of a sudden he finds

himself as a chief security adviser as a republican candidates for president, which is a really big deal. when he comes back in, he's in the starter slot for that top job. i think it was a relationship of mutual belief. fueled by loyalty, and by the alliance. this is going to be flynn's ticket back to the big time, in kind of a way to show that they were wrong. of course it turned instead into a terrible end to his career. jeremy? >> i don't think it was a match of ideological soulmates. i think it was a match of misfit toys. >> excellent holiday reference. >> and flynn could not find anybody to advice. they found each other on that basis. >> ken dylanian, weigh in on that. >> i think jeremy has a point. we should remember that mike flynn wasn't always this rogue operator. he was a guy who transformed the way jsocs fought in afternoon.

he wrote a really influential paper about how intelligence was going astray, but it didn't work out. it's one thing toll an intelligence agent in the feel, another to manage a huge agency. what's next here for the white house? we've talked a lot about how ty cobb is trying to convince everybody this is going to wrap up. >> we've never believed a special prosecutor would wrap up quickly. the one thing we can actually say is it will not, but we could pretend like we know exactly what mueller is going after. apparently he's going after lots of things, but i think the one things is they may try to pretend on friday that everything's going to be fine, this is great and the president is fine, but if who picks is being interviewed by the special counsel's office, if other

people, jared kushner is being interviewed, they keep seeing reporting that these are the people they're talking to that gets closer and closer, and how can you not be worried if your son-in-law is having these conversations, even just for your daughter. >> indeed. let's hold these thoughts, we have more coming up. we'll talk next about what's up for michael flynn jr. and donald trump jr. in the russia investigation. first we revisit the conversation on sexual harassment. i'm joining by sherry bustos that sponsored a bill. you're watches "kasie dc." -stop it! -mm-hmm. we've been saving a lot of money ever since we switched to progressive. this bar is legit. and now we get an even bigger discount from bundling home and auto. i can get used to this. it might take a minute. -swing and a miss! -slam dunk!

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it's been a watershed week for sexual harassment allegations. this week nbc confirmed that tex texas congressman is the lawmakers behind an $84,000

sexual harassment settlement payment made in 2013 with taxpayer dollars. he responded by saying -- i can nets confirm nor deny that settlement involved my office. a day later nancy plotsist called on her colleague from nevada to step down at a former aide accused him of making repeated sexual advances towards her during his 2016 campaign. pelosi and the rest of the party leadership finally called on john conyers to step down, chug a settlement for section mum misconduct. he responded to pelosi with this -- >> first of all, it's not up to nancy pelosi. nancy pelosi did not elect the

congressman respect and she sure as hell won't be the one to tell him to leave. that decision will be completely up to the congressman. he's not thought about that. he's thinking about his health, thinking about getting well. we will discuss in the next day or so what mr. conyers plans to do. meanwhile, joe barton has announced he won't seek reelection involving a scandal of his own. the ethics committee announced it's officially begun an allegation against senator al franken. my next guest is on co-sponsor of the congressional accountability and hush fund eliminationability and seeks to end the use of taxpayer dollars to harassment cases. let's bring in cheri bustos.

good to see you off the softball field and in the studio. first of all, the bill you sponsored, walk us through it alternates bit. i think there were a lot of people surprised to learn if you were an aide who worked in a congressional office and felt harassed and the complained and there was a settlement, the taxpayers would cover the bill for that. >> frankly members of congress were surprised about it. we don't exactly how much has been paid out, because it's all been done in secret. so what this gets at is exactly what the name says. congressional accountability, and slush fund eliminations act. it's a perfect name for it. we're saying not one cent should the taxpayers be responsible for for paying out to sexual predators, and then for the sexual predators, members of

congress, to be able to hide it. we should hold ourselves to a higher standard. >> so americans have a right to know? in that stapt he kip of hid behind the law. to be fair some of these protections are aimed at protecting women harassed, but it seems i could potentially make public the names of members who do this thing without naming the victims. we're calling for the release of that. we think that the members who have used taxpayer dollars to pay out victim, the public ought to know who they are. we they the victims should be released from any muzzle on them if they choose to speak out. >> if they want to talk. >> you have the power to end those agreements that have already been signed? >> if we pass this, yes, and i think a call out to the public is just who is going to support this measure?

and who is not going to support this measure? i can't imagine any taxpayer thinking it's okay to hide this and it's oak for their hard-earned dollars to pay out victims because a member of cop has behaved in this way. >> do you have a me-too story? >> well, you know, i was a journalist for 17 years, and then i worked in health care for another ten, now in congress, running for mire foyt term right now. those are areas just like if you work in a factory floor, if you work at a mall, if you work at a restaurant, i don't know any woman who doesn't have some kind of story. i don't have anything that as traumatized me, but i certainly is frepds where as this me-too movement as emerged and is growing, have shared their own stories with me.

you just shake your head about how deep is this, and is there a profession where women are not immune to it. >> especially when the harassment comes from -- who may not have resource no matter how much we talked about it. do you think nancy pelosi should have called for john conyers to resign early 1234. >> i think it's easier to do monday morning quarterback. she's done a full accounting. >> do you agree with her calls for resignation? >> i they we should say enough, and the stories are credible. i don't think,000 anybody who is saying these women are lying. i believe the women from everything i have read. i did what you do for a living, and i was an investigative reporter for a number of years as well. i know that you've got to earn your job as a journalist and

this is real news, you get to the bottom of this. you have multiple women who verify the stories and that's what we're seeing in each of these cases. >> nancy pelosi has gotten closer to the presidency than any other women. were you disappointed? >> i want to use this moment -- this is my overall view of when something like this happens. let's use it as a moment we can learn from, and let's move forward and make something good out of this. our bill that we introduced this past week i think is a step in the right direction. i'm working in a bipar san fashion both in the house and senate with a about ilthat we'll be introducing this coming week that will look at the private sector and call for more accountability. you know, i just learned that businesses can write off as expenses when they have to pay for lawyers to protect them their senior leadership from

sexual harassment charges. they can write off the expenses for lawyers and even the payout for their victims. that's not right. i think the more that the public finds out about this, the more they're going to call on members of congress to do something about it. that's our goal here. it seems there's a massive tax bill winding its way through. >> it's not just the fact that we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard, but every day when donald trump tweets, there's so many dwergss every single day. you know it because you cover it. but we should by fighting day for jobs and making sure the economy is working for, and people at christmas are working three jobs to make ends meet. that's the district i work, where people have seen their jobs go to places like china and mexico. as we're talking about our economic agenda, we're saying,

you know, you have gotten a withdraw deal, to which of the -- and we have a better deal to offer. that's what we want to keep focused on. >> thank you so much for coming on the show tonight. and coming up, all in the family. mike at flynn pleads guilty to federal charges. but as nbc has reported, his son was part of the investigation as well. when we continue, we'll talk about his role in the inquiry, and whether the deal means he won't face charges. "kasie dc" is back after this.

does he have the full confidence of the president? yes, had he does. there's a lot of significant significance happening and obviously general flynn is a part of all of those. >> the president is evaluating, and he's speaking to vice president pence relative to the conversation the vice president had with general flynn. >> according to kristin welker and one senior official, the new acting -- the nsa, the acting national security adviser is general keith kellogg, who was the chief of staff. michael flynn has resigned.

in just a few short hours on february 13th, national security adviser mike flynn went from having the full confident of president trump to being out of a job. ten months later, it's not just trump and flynn under scrutiny. it's also their namesake sons. donald trump jr. will appear before the commit yes this week, expected to be asked about his meeting with russians at trump tower during the presidential campaign in june of 2016, and his encounter the month before with alexander torsion, a russian banker with close ties to the creme listen. he east also -- back in june, trump junior wade in on the flynn matter. on fox necessary -- that president trump told him he hoped the fbi would drop his investigation into flynn.

>> you and i both know my father a long time. when he tells you to do something, guess what? there's no ambiguity in it. there's no, hey, i'm hoping. you and i are friends, i hope this happens, but you have to do your job. that's what he told comey, and for this guy to write a memo, he felt so threatened. he didn't do anything. >> as for flynn's son, it was reported that he's the subject of a federal investigation as part of the russia probe for his work for the chief of staff for his father's lobbying firm. "the washington post" reported that part of the negotiations with the elder flynn, flynn junior is not expected to face charges. ben tressinger, who wrote a speech for "gq" and also my panel is still with me, and nick

confe confessore in new york. we've talked a lot about it, is mike flynn senior going to end of cooperating, because of hi son? it seems as though we know the answer to the question about whether or not he's going to cooperate. is this the core reason why? to protect his son? >> it seems certainly at least a reason why. in a statement that 'companied the plea deal, flynn said he was doing the best thing for his country and his family. for everything we know, flynn junior was involved with the intel group. he had his hands on paperwork, bank accounts, so he had real criminal exposure. you have to think that any deal his father made would have protected him fully or at least somewhat from that exposure. you say, yes, he was involved in all these dealings, but was flynn the son a key

decision-maker in the firm? we see some reporting that suggests he was simply scheduling meetings, but at the same time therefore would have known everything was going on. >> more like an administrator or top aide, but someone who knew what was going on, may have been signing papers or dealing with papers for his faerlt. we know his father had some exposure possibly from potential fara violations. >> that's the law that requires you to registered as a foreign agent. >> that's right, in this case for turkey. >> so nothing like a mastermind, but someone who is in the room for a lot of stuff. >> what is your latest reporting on the role this played? is it a closed issue now? can we stop talking about michael flynn jr.? >> it's not clear. the things we've been reporting about junior and his father in terms of turkey are extraordinary. it's amazing that this goes away

with one guilty plea with a single charge of lying to the fbi. they are allegations there was a deal where flynn and/or his son would have been paid $15 million if they facilitated the cleric who lives in the poconos. and it's not clear they could have made that happen. it's not even clear this is true. these are allegations that we believe mueller is investigating. the foreign lobbying violations, those are mentioned in the court documents, but flynn was not charged with those violation. that is also hanging over flynn. this is enormous leverage, his son has a young baby at home, you know, it's absolutely the most leverage you can have over a parent. >> nick confessore, weigh in there. where does your reporting stand on what happens next? >> if he he was basically the administrative assistant, and

his main job in the financial group was to set up appointments, make travel arrangements. he would have been there for everything including the trip to russia, and the bank that his father was involved in, but the operation that ken is referring to, the extradition was more like a black bag plan. this was going to be like a private effort to take this cleric and put him on a plane and send him back to turkey, not like a formal extradition. that's crazy stuff if it's true, especially for guys of their rank. flynn junior on top of that was incredibly intemperate. he was practically daring the special counsel to come after him. he was scoffing at the investigation. you know, in terms of twitter feeds that have done damage to the administration, i would say trump first, the president's first, and mike flynn jr. is second. he's in a lot of jeopardy, cakae

thank you all. tune into "headlinitious" right here at 9:00 p.m. find out how one of the most admired leaders ended up at the center of the investigation. is president trump finding ways to get around the gatekeeper john kellie? we'll be back after this ♪ because one is... it's about the one bold choice you make that moves you forward. ♪ ...that you ever need the one and only cadillac escalade. come in for our season's best offers and drive out with the perfect 2017 cadillac escalade for you. get this low mileage lease from around $899 per month. ( ♪ )

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par. there's new reporting today from the "wall street journal," president trump reportedly continues to find loopholes undermining attempts by chief of staff john kelly to bring order and discipline to the white house. quote -- the president on occasion has called white house aides to the private residence in the evening where he makes assignments and asks them not to tell mr. kelly about the plan. according to several people familiar with the matter. some of the president's friends

have taken to calling melania trump and asking her to pass messages to her husband. the first lady's office calls the report fake news. prompting rebukes by the british prime minister and in the house of commons. let's explore this really. i was trying to put myself in a situation where i remember calling someone to say, do this thing, but don't tell mom about it. >> that's exactly it. >> no, it's -- i don't find it all that surprising, and i think we can all sort of great that john kelly has brought some sense of at least order and chain of command, at least up to him, but he's always said the president is the president, and

he never press tended that he would be able to control the president's twitter feed, but he's the president of the united states. in the end he's the number one guy and if he wants to talk to staff in the private residence residence and put out assignments, i don't know how you counter act that. >> also he wasn't hired to control him. >> control the white house. >> maybe not. he is the president. he controls his staff. they report to him. john kelly is doing whatever he's doing, and the idea that he has some assignment to control what the president tweets, or what the president does is fiction. it's not reality. >> he's never brought into that fiction. john kelly hasn't bought into it, either. >> no, it's his twitter feed. >> i would say he sets a different tone in the white house, and i'm interested in your reporting on this, too. the hill seems to feel as though

having kelly in charge is helpful. >> it's come up a lot of times, that kelly is not quick to return phone calls. i hear this all the time. it's easier for many people to get in touch with the president and his chief of staff takes a couple days to return calls. this is from -- without betraying sore, this is from very senior members of congress, who feel like they can get in touch with the president a lot easier than the chief of staff. listen, there are a lot of situation, where you want to talk to the chief of staff and not the president, and it's not worth a call, because the president has a lot on his plate, and a call to the chief of staff is easier. i can tell you from many people, they have a tough time getting in touch with kelly. >> we know from the campaign that president trump likes to have conversations, likes to know what is going on and used to call a lot of people we know, or text message people we know and expect calls back and have

that back-and-forth. that's how i think he gets information. he doesn't want to be blocked off from people. >> he's a social being, he really is. >> and if members of congress appear on television, maybe that's the best way to get a return call. when we come back, jake is going to bring us a first look at playbook's power list, 18 people to watch, that's next when "kasie dc" continues live from washington. sh our insuranc. then we could get a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey, welcome back. this guy... right? yes. ellen. that's my robe. you could save seven hundred eighty two dollars when liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance. whfight back fastts, with tums smoothies. it starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source.

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you are here to save the day with your terrible white magic. who are you? >> merry christmas. i have no idea how long i've wanted to say this. lock him up. >> snl doing what they do best. gotta love it. a new list of people to watch closely in 2018 is out from politico tonight. top attorney on mueller's council made the cut. snake sherman is here with a look. jake, let's go through a couple highlights here. these may be people that some of our viewers may not know offhand by name. a lot of people we deal with every day. >> they will know them once they read this. >> they will. take us through. one person that you mentioned is nick ayers. >> interesting dynamic.

the president is not going to be a central figure at least in person on the campaign trail, what member of the house or senate would want a president with 30% approval ratings out there campaigning for him. mike pence is going to be a figure on the trail. he has been out there. he is raising money. nick is the guy behind mike pence who is going to decide where he will go, what campaigns he will get involved in, who he is going to give money to. remember, mike pence started a political action committee and is giving donations, actively across the house and the senate. this is somebody who is going to control the white house's efforts in races across the country. >> he was quoted as telling donors that republicans needed to get on board with donald trump or face serious punishment. >> or face this idea that there is money that's going to go to mike pence and he wants to doll it o dole it out. >> corey bliss is the top person

at paul ryan's super pac. he runs a massive organization not well-known but spends a lot of money, gets a lot of money. they're going to be very active in house races across the country as house republicans cling to their majority in an era where they are very unpopular, they are passing bills that are unpopular and in some cases not passing anything at all. he will spend a lot of money and shaping the way this 2018 mid term election looks on the ground. >> he also ran rob portman's senate race in ohio. somebody who tends to be in the center of the action, shall we say. this sort of evolving story line around winning the house, i think virginia gave us a taste of what that could look like. i have been skeptical, we can take back the house. i'm sort of on the fence. >> yeah. except for the fact virginia is

a purple state that in some ways is starting to trend blue and that's a special election and, and, and, and, and donald trump. i don't -- i take the let's look at virginia and apply it to 2018 with a grain of salt. but withhat we know to come baco the tax reform, to back to the idea of passing something so they have something to run on as well as something that makes donors happy, passing that tax reform will make some of the donors very happy. >> thank you, jake, very much for this list. there's a couple women on this list as well. check it out politico.com. when we come back, what to watch for in the week ahead. i had frequent heartburn, but my doctor recommended...

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we are back with what to watch for in the week ahead. nick, you are still with us. i want to start with you. what are you looking for?

>> i'm looking to see the implications sink in that this tax bill and to see the republicans look at what they voted on or are about to vote on in principal. this is a bill that essentially takes the geographical lines of power in america and punishes the democratic coalition and rewards the republican one. the problem is if you are a republican in a blue state or a university town or in a place with a job center with lots of tech, this is not necessarily a good bill. watch out. >> jake, what are you watching for? >> the start of the negotiations between the house and senate and the rush. again, government shuts down, end of the week. how are they going to get that done? how are they going to get the tax bill and government funding through so quickly? >> you keep bringing up the shutdown. >> it's like a black cloud. >> it's sort of similar. i'm interested in susan collins says she has a deal as part of the voting for the tax reform package to help shore up

affordable care act. i want to know if the house of representatives is part of the deal. >> a great question. i'm going to bring up -- this is just out. an op ed from billy bush in "the new york times." he said, of course, he said it, that infamous quote on that "access hollywood" tape. that does it for us. join us next week from 7:00 to 9:00 eastern. coming up next, headliners, michael flyn stick around, check it out. good night from washington. president trump's former national security adviser michael flynn has just pleaded guilty to a charge of lying to the fbi. >> michael flynn at one time donald trump's most loyal foreign policy adviser now pledging full cooperation with the president's antagonist, special counsel robert mueller. >> it may change the calculus for the president. >> he has information about president trump. he has information about the former campaign manager, paul manafort. maybe about jared k