the house floor where republicans are currently one vote short of proceeding to a conference committee on that trump tax plan. major problems and arm twisting on the house floor. republican votes still outstanding so they could rescue it. rumors of the freedom caucus making trouble for paul ryan. we wanted to give you that update before the show ends. the beet ends. "hardball" is up next. trump versus the fbi. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. so it's now donald trump at war with the federal bureau of investigation. he is out there knocking the fbi for treating michael flynn unfairly. the president defended the man who on friday pleaded guilty to one count of lying to the fbi and who is now cooperating with robert mueller. let's watch.

>> well, i feel badly for general flynn. i feel very badly. he has led a very strong life. and i feel very badly, john. i will say this. hillary clinton lied many times to the fbi. nothing happened to her. flynn lied and they destroyed his life. i think it's a shame. hillary clinton on the fourth of july weekend went to the fbi not under oath. it was the most incredible thing anyone's ever seen. she lied many times. nothing happened to her. flynn lied and it's like they ruined his life. it's very unfair. >> well, hillary clinton was interviewed over the fourth of july weekend back in 2015. but former fbi director james comey told congress earlier this year that she didn't lie to the fbi. >> did hillary clinton lie? >> to the fbi? we have no basis to conclude she lied to the fbi. >> did she lie to the public? >> that's a question i'm not qualified to answer. i can speak what she said to the

fbi. >> did she -- did hillary clinton lie under oath? >> not to the fbi. not in a case we're working. >> president trump spent the weekend defending himself on twitter and blasting james comey, the fbi and the justice department. on saturday, trump tweeted i had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and the fbi. in the past, the white house had only claimed flynn was fired because he lied to the vice president. the tweet seemed to confirm that the president knew flynn had lied to the fbi, a crime, by the way, according to comey, trump asked him to drop the investigation into flynn. so he lied. he thought he discovered that flynn had lied and then asked comey to take care of the guy. talk about obstruction. yesterday trump's lawyer dowd said it was he who wrote the tweet, not trump. he said he mistakenly conflated flynn lying to the fbi with lying to the fbi. he then told "the washington post" that the president knew in

late january flynn had probably told the fbi the same inaccurate account he gave to the vice president. well, also yesterday, the president took an incredible shot at his own fbi. he wrote after years of comey with the phony and dishonest clinton investigation and more running the fbi, its reputation is in tatters. worst in history. eric holder, the former attorney general responded, nope, not letting this go. the fbi's reputation is not in tatters. it's composed of the same dedicated men and women who have always worked there and who do a great apolitical job. you'll find integrity and honesty at the fbi headquarters and not at 1600 penn avenue right now. and senator lindsey graham of north carolina had this warning for president. >> there is an ongoing criminal investigation. comey may be part of it. you tweeting comment regarding ongoing criminal investigations at your own peril. i'd be careful if i were you, mr. president. i'd watch all this. >> heidi przybyla, eugene

robinson and former fbi special agent clint watts. i want to start with heidi. it seemed to be the more ludicrous part. whenever trump gets in trouble like the witness for the prosecution just named, it's michael flynn coming at trump with everything he's got because he has to save his life, basically. he is going after hillary. >> it's classic deflection. and there is something that is not clicking there that doesn't oh dour him that it's not going to work to try and discredit hillary clinton who is not under investigation. it's his campaign that's under investigation. and then secondly, to try and impugn the fbi. every time there is an institution that is providing a constitutional check on his power, he goes after it, whether it's judges, the news media, even the budget office now with his tax plan. >> the penitentiary too. gene, this is the guy at war. he is like sampson in the temple. i'm going to bring this place down. >> yeah. >> i'm going bring everything down.

first of all, going after the fbi. how stupid is that? the fbi caught nixon. >> this is flailing. hillary clinton are words that evoke a reaction among his base and among republicans in general. so it's like a sugar high. he gets that sugar high from yeah, i stuck to it hillary clinton. but meanwhile, inexorably, the fbi and the mueller investigation come closer and closer and closer. and he starts flailing when something happens like flynn flipping. and he realizes that in fact this is not only not over, but it's just beginning. >> you know, heidi, it sounds like one of those old comedy shows i would go on and just say paris hilton, and everybody will laugh. just say it. say kardashian. it doesn't mean anything. what it? it's just a word. >> well, what he is doing is he is creating his own news here with an obstruction case. and the question is we're having

these discussions all day long on cable news about obstruction and how he is building an obstruction case. point valid. but why? the why is still the much more important question of why was it worth it to tell all of these lies? and now we're seeing that the collusion piece of this, piece by piece starting to be built out. and every week it seems there is a new member of the team who knew something about the discussions that were going on with the russian. >> clint, let's go to the law enforcement part of this, clint. here is the question. it seems to me he is going to war with the people that are the national police. they're the investigators. they get the facts to robert mueller. why would he go to people who have an incentive already to go after him because he may have broken the law, but now may have an incentive institutionally forced every day by his attacks on the fbi? >> this is more trump first, america second. i was worried a years about russia tearing down democratic institutions. i'm more worried about our president tearing down democratic institutions. he is the leader of the

executive branch. he should be the one setting the tone for the fbi. he should be supporting them, pushing them in the right direction. if he does believe they're in tatters, which i believe is absolute nonsense, the best way to go about that is be a leader, set an agenda. instead he is going on the attack. and that's going to backfire on him. it may solidify his base. but it's also undermining our country. he is actually weakening the credibility of the federal law enforcement agency for the entire united states. he is going to sow doubt in their ability, and he is going to hurt the ability of our law enforcement and judicial systems with his claims. so he is an enemy of the state whenever he is pushing against the fbi in that way. and if he finds that the fbi is in tatters, well, i would sure like to know how he would like to improve that because he has never offered anything about why it's both in tatters or what he would do about it. it's a sad state of affairs. >> his national security guy lies to the fbi. the president fires him for doing so and then goes to head the of the fbi asks him to let

general flynn off. when he doesn't let general flynn off, he fires the head of the fbi. trump is going to war with the fbi. anyway, to cover up with what he did with russia. we'll get to more on that. yesterday dianne feinstein of california described the case against donald trump as looking more and more like obstruction of justice, which is what we're talking about here. the president trying to stop the fbi from doing its job. here she is. >> i think that we'hat we're beginning to see is the beginning to put together the case of beginning of obstruction of justice. we see this in the four indictments and pleas that have just taken place in some of the comments that are being made. i see it in the hyper frenetic attitude of the white house, the comments every day, the continual tweets. and i see it most importantly in what happened with the firing of director comey. >> well, he fired the fbi

director comey. the question, will he try to fire mueller? trump doesn't always surprise us. you can usually see where he is heading. you're laughing because he does pretty much address the ball pretty clearly. he sends the telegram message clear. he wants the public on his side, his 30 some percent to think mueller is trash shirks clearly trying to discredit the investigation. well, maybe that his is his ultimate goal. but he has to go through many hoops before he gets there. he can't directly fire him. what you see now from far right media commentators is talking about how much money mueller is spending on this investigation. and there is still no proof of collusion. by the way, we don't know that. >> you mean just added $1.5 trillion to the national debt are worried about economy. >> we don't know there is no proof of collusion because we're not the investigators. yet they are trying to undermine this investigation. and impossibly, i would look for other after avenues to attack t

investigation, maybe not an outright ambush of the investigation. >> heidi is absolutely right. he is trying to draw this line, they're trying to draw this line between obstruction and collusion when as you said, we don't know what mueller has on collusion. i would argue that you would make a prime facie case for obstruction at this point. he did fire the fbi director and say it was because of the russia investigation. so aside from a tweet this weekend, he did that, he said that to lester holt. but the collusion question, at least from my -- i'm not a lawyer. just looking at the investigation, it seems to me that mueller is not anywhere near done with collusion. and in fact may be just getting started. i think that's the kind of thing he wants to hear more from flynn about. >> many of the president's tweets this weekend took aim at the justice system, as i said. for example, he wrote many people in our country are asking what the justice department is doing -- going to do about the

fact that totally crooked hillary, after receiving a subpoena from the united states congress, deleted and acid washed 33,000 e-mails. no justice. and then he said i never asked comey to stop investigating flynn. just more fake news covering another comey lie. well, according to james comey in february, trump told him i hope you can see your way clear to letting flynn go. what do we make of that, clibt? he is really going down to destroy all people around him, not just the fake media. everybody else is a fake. everybody is out of step with johnny. everybody, whether it's the independent free press, an independent judiciary, a justice department, and an fbi out to find out the truth, anyone who gets in his way, he turns into public dirt. that's the strategy. >> yeah, it's a discrediting approach. it's what authoritarians do all around the world. we've seen that repeatedly. now they're modeling their behavior off of our president which is somewhat ironic and also scary. what i think this really comes down to is what does it take to push the american people and

keep our bearings straight. we just see accounts now where the special counsel's office has filed for manafort, who was allegedly working with someone in russia to try and change the narrative in english in the newspaper article around his own case. this continues to go on. and it's to discredit all institutions. and i don't know who that serves other than trump. i don't know how that makes america great again. i don't know how that helps the american people. and ultimately, it leaves us divided. and the president's first mission above all others is to unify our country that we are the united states for a reason. and we are quickly becoming the divided states of america. >> so he is destroying the fbi whose head he just named and had confirmed by the senate. anyway, president trump pounced on reports this weekend that mueller had removed one of his investigators last summer after the investigator reportedly sent text messages expressing anti-trump political views. the investigator had also led the investigation into hillary clinton's use of a private e-mail server. trump tweeted report, anti-trump

fbi agent led clinton e-mail probe. now it all starts to make sense. gene? [ laughter ] >> well, that doesn't make much sense to me. so mueller fires an fbi guy because he said some things on social media that perhaps made him look biased. so mueller does the right thing by getting rid of him. and somehow that confirms the president's view that mueller -- >> you know how backwards this is, though? it is that clinton, koiccomey's handling of the clinton investigation that the democrats all blame for some of the late shifts in the election handing the election to donald trump. so what does he mean by it all makes sense? >> just one thing, though. >> there is not one person in the country that doesn't blame james comey what happened 11 days ago. >> that's right. >> i'm sorry, clint. we've got toned up this segment. thanks for coming on. coming up, michael flynn's

guilty plea has appeared to open up several new avenues of robert mueller's russia investigation. we've done obstruction. collusion starting to look very, very interesting. plus, a leading republican strategist says impeachment is closer than you think. but would the gop actually go forward against trump? and a president who endorses an accused child molester, a top senator who attacks the working class for spend mongolia on booze, women and moves. and another says there is no money left to help poor kids get health care because of the mammoth tax cut that just gave money to the rich. would they be saying this if it weren't trump in charge? that's the republican party of today. finally, let me finish tonight with trump watch. no, he is not going to like it. this is "hardball," where the action is. person who opens it. ♪ give ancestrydna, the only dna test that can trace your origins to over 150 ethnic regions-

and open up a world of possibilities. ♪ save 30% for the holidays at ancestrydna.com ♪ ♪ work on the cloud with open technology, and open standards. the ibm cloud. the cloud for business. yours. the cloud for business. when food is good and clean and real, it's ok to crave. and with panera catering, there's more to go around. panera. food as it should be. president trump today announced he is slashing the size of two national monuments in utah. the largest rollback of public lands protection in u.s. history. the president's proclamations

which the bears ears and grand staircase escalante national staircase by nearly two million acres. it could open up the land for exploitation and exploration. trump signed in salt lake city where he was flanked by republicans including orrin hatch, a key proponent behind the move. i don't know what's going on with hatch. he encouraged hatch to run for reelection. >> you are a true fighter, orrin. i have to say, i've gotten to know him very well. i've gotten to know a lot of people very well you. meet fighters, and you meet people who you thought were fighter, but they're not so good at fighting. he sea fighter. we hope you will continue to serve your state and your country in the senate for a very long time to come. [ applause ] >> senator hatch. he did not want or deserve or need the blessing of that man. anyway, the president's comments came amid new reporting from politico that says trump is

going all out to get hatch to run. a push aimed in no small part at keeping the president's long time nemesis mitt romney out of the senate. well, that makes sense for trump. at least that's thoughtful. he wants to keep somebody away from him he is afraid of. we'll be right back. is this where you typically shop? is this where anyone typically shops? it's time to switch to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day... not just airline purchases. seriously... double miles... everywhere! what's in your wallet? what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations

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welcome back to "hardball." in the wake of the news emerging from michael flynn's plea deal, president trump can no longer dismiss his former national security adviser as a lone operator. as we learned, jared kushner told flynn to get the russians to back off the israeli settlement question. and kt mcfarland spoke about the transition's response to a u.s. sanctions on russia. additionally, "the new york times" now reports to mcfarland, quote, wrote in an e-mail to a colleague that sanctions announced hours before by the obama administration in retaliation for election russian meddling were aimed at discrediting mr. trump's victory.

additionally she wrote mr. flynn would be speaking with the russian ambassador miss kislyak hours after mr. obama's sanctions were announced. could she sent the e-mail about sanctions to transition official tom bossert who forwarded it to another trump election adviser including reince priebus and sean spicer. it suggests they were more widely discussed among transition officials that could open up new avenues of investigation for special counsel mueller. i'm joined by malcolm nance, msnbc political security analyst and joyce. joyce, thank you very much for this. i have to say watching this thing, you now see the chain of command. somehow trump deputize his top people, whether it's kt mcfarland or his son-in-law, jared kushner, to use flynn to get in the door with kislyak and send all kinds of messages to the russians. this idea that this is not conspiratorial, that this is not a kohl losive effort with the russians is out the wound.

they're working together at the top. and what a great deal it was that putin is going along with not reacting to the sanction. just what he wanted him to do. he is applauding his own mission's success. how could he step back and say i don't know nothing? >> it's really an interesting situation. i guess the most important question that mueller's team will have to make a decision about is whether or not there was an illegal objective of this conspiracy. because as you, you know, lay out, there is no doubt that these people are collaborating together, making sure that flynn is talking to kislyak. and the only real question at the end of the day was there an overt act taken by this group towards an illegal objective, which is what the law would require to prove a conspiracy. >> i want to bring in malcolm on this. just an hour or two ago, we found out that trump personally intervened with the republican platform writing, and he personally intervened to get the

kind of plank involving uukraine the way the russians wanted it. i mean, it's not like the monkey typing merry christmas, that this might happen in a million years. it would only happen if they intended to it happen. why is this president mucking around on russia's business? why does he have all the stuff in the world? he is about to be nominated for president. he is thinking what can i do for the russians in ukraine. it's impossible not to see a plan here at work. >> it's a million dollar question. we've been asking that question since the beginning of this campaign. why is he so favorable to russia? and the word why is what the mueller campaign is going after. because this started as a counter intelligence operation that was looking for americans in communication with russian intelligence officers. so as that would translate down to the platform where he wanted to have broader relations with russia, perhaps he ordered someone to soften that position. but you have to understand, paul manafort was now on the scene at this point. and he had worked deeply for the

pro moscow government in the ukraine you. have you to determine was this orders or was this just, you know, act a questions sense to his his pal in moscow. >> unless manafort said this is the key to russian interests here. i mentioned npr is now reporting on the effort to water down an amend last summer. diana denman, a republican delegate who supported arming u.s. allies in ukraine told people that trump, jd gordon said at that trump directed him to support weakening that position in the official platform. denman is expected to week with the house and senate intelligence committees this week there are a lot of real hawks around the president who you would think would take the ukrainian side against the russians. that's deal. fight russia. then the president weirdly just seems to be carrying water for the russians against the ideology of those people supporting him. unless it's for some particular

interest, it certainly can't be claimed as ideological because trump is supposed to be some tough guy with the world. a real nationalist. he sounds like a russian nationalist these days. i'm sorry. >> it's completely inexplicable. you even have flynn just a few years earlier taking this sort of hard line view. and suddenly there is a point at which he too jumps over. on ukraine and russia there is a shift. you have this strange convergence of events. you have the russians on the one hand allegedly taking a lot of action that made a trump win in the presidential race easier. on the other hand, you've got activity like this change in the republican platform, which i is now being attributed by at least one source to president trump, and potentially other things like not implementing sanctions that congress has passed. and the question for mueller is do these two completely inextricable time frames, the trump softening on russia, russia's help in a u.s. election, do those add up and meet in the middle with some

sort of an exchange between these two where there was a quid pro quo, and then mueller would really be in formal collusion, in criminal conspiracy territory. >> i've heard years from prosecutors like yourself how hard it is to prove bribery. because you almost have to have a tape recording or at least one witness overhearing if you do this, i'll do that. that's a quid pro quo. it can't just be assumed, can it? you have to show a conversation somewhere where some guy or woman said hey, here is the deal you. help us out on ukraine, we're going play ball with you on this other stuff. >> right. you can't assume it you. do have to prove it. this why we're seeing mueller engage in this methodical -- he is moving as quick as possible, but he is also dotting i's and crossing t's. they will get if in fact there was a bribe or a quid pro quo, there will be a lot of circumstantial evidence along the way. they'll reach the point where that evidence, maybe one piece of it alone wouldn't hold firm. but all of it taken together

will establish the broad. and that's how these sorts of public corruption case, because that's what this really is, that's how these cases are built. meticulously, piece of evidence by piece of evidence. >> thanks, joyce. in an in depth report, the "washington post" has revealed the topics of keen interest, that's its phrase to chief investigators include how foreign government officials and their emissaries contacted trump officials as well as the actions at interplay of flynn and jared kushner. as we learned on friday, flynn also asked the russian ambassador to help block a u.n. resolution that condemned israel for building settlements in disputed territories. nbc has identified kushner in court documents as, quote, the very senior member of the presidential transition team who directed flynn to contact officials from foreign governments, including russia to influence those governments to delay the vote or defeat the resolution. malcolm, this is part of my whole problem with the administration, besides the existence of the president himself. and this is this romanoff way of

running the golf. what the hell does jared kushner have in his background that justifies him calling world leaders one at a time, including russia, and telling them how to vote on an egyptian resolution before the security council? i mean -- and then you find out this guy knows nothing -- he may have an attitude, a position about israel. he a's got no foreign policy experience or anything. he carries water for nobody in the american people. handy is out there deciding this stuff on a world stage because he's the son-in-law. >> well, if you want to be generous -- >> it's a joke. >> yeah. but if you want to be generous you could say this is them reaching out and making contact with foreign officials as part of their transition duties. but we can see plainly that the mueller investigation is determined that that's not the case. they were carrying out foreign policy. >> sure. >> sort of literally telling nations what to do and to ignore the sitting president. the question is what is the motivation behind their actions.

everyone suddenly hid this. and when you start hiding these activities -- >> just like to call the shots. they weren't willing to wait for january 20th. you've got jared out there. he probably has some kind of attitude. there he comes out and says we're going crash through the obama policy, which is to make his or pull back on the settlements across the green line. so why not just crash it right now. don't even wait for the inauguration. that's what it looks like. >> yeah. but you can understand that. and that would be almost reasonable, you know, to have that as i like to call it masters of the universe attitude now. now we run government. well can do whatever we want, even though we're not in power yet. but on the other hand, you also have to come to the fundamental question that you discussed in your previous segment. why lie about this. they spent enormous amount of resources to cover this all up. >> i know the answer. joyce, you have one more minute here. i want to give you half a minute. if he really wanted to create a rapprochement with russia and prevent a second cold war from develop, getting any hotter,

what would be so embarrassing about that, that he has to hide every inch of it? that to me is the profound question. i don't get it. >> there is no reason that they had to hide any of this. even the meetings themselves. >> yeah. joyce? >> you have sow when you're talking about sessions. you're talking about having these contacts. and literally lying to federal law officers about it. then what you have is the fundamentals of conspiracy and miller know. >> i'm getting pushed here. joyce, do you have any thought about why they would cover up could be a grand purpose piece? >> well, you know, it's interesting. you always assume if people are covering up, there is a reason for it. people don't typically lie unless it's a martha stewart situation where they're afraid they've one something wrong. here the ultimate question at the end of the day is where they lying to cover up collusion. and more and more we're seeing pieces of evidence that indicate there was a lot of improper exchange, whether it goes all the way to collusion, i think is something that we'll find out in the next few months.

>> well said. i love the way that martha stewart handled that very bad situation, by the way. she took her punishment and moved on. thank you, malcolm nance and joyce vance. up next, are we getting closer to impeachment? and would republicans go along with it, even if the case were proven? that's a good question, with a republican house. this is "hardball," where the action is. shawn evans: it's 6 am.

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combined with two converging currents, the mueller investigation looking for that obstruction of justice charge, and then alabama. roy moore coming to the senate possibly in a week, and he becomes the face of the republican party for the next year when we're already in danger of losing the house. it's likely we'll do that without him. lose the house. trump gets impeached. we're closer to impeachment now i think than we think. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was alex castellanos with a warning for his fellow republicans and new questions about whether or not the president obstructed justice in the russia probe. as axios points out, trump's legal team points out the president cannot obstruct justice. but notes the one thing that everyone agrees on is the house of representatives with its impeachment power alone decides what is cause for removal from office. for now at least the house is run by republicans. well, that's consoling. the first article of impeachment against richard nixon for example which passed the house

judiciary committee charged that the president was in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has prevented, obstructed and impeded the administration of justice. similarly, the third article against president clinton said he has obstructed and impeded the administration of justice. who recently wrote a great article, the case for normalizing impeachment. and republican strategist john fear. i want to get to three point in the next five minutes. can we all agree that obstruction of justice has to be impeachable? because if a president can do anything he wants with the justice system, he is basically i he is an emperor, if he can just ignore the law. can we agree on that? >> i think so, yeah. >> john? >> impeachment is a political matter. i it's gore the politicians to decide. >> suppose there is proven obstruction? >> that's a good case to make. you to make to it the politicians. >> they have the right to ignore it? >> they have the right to ignore

it. especially in the senate. i'm just saying from a practical perspective. >> ezra, i'm older than you guys. we've been arguing what high crimes and misdemeanors means since i was born practically. you in your article say basically it's not a legal term, it's a political judgment like in the british house of commons. it's a no-confidence vote. if you don't like this government, if you don't like this prime minister you want to get rid of him, you vote no confidence. >> i wouldn't say high crimes and misdemeanors is meant to be like a no-confidence vote. james madison talks about impeaching a president for capriciously firing executive branch officials. the first federal official ever impeached. >> is that marbury? >> no, that was the federalson papers. he is rambling at people from the bench. he is commented. that's a high crimes and misdemeanor standard. it's very clear they mean if you talk to constitutional scholars something like breach of public trust. the problem is, as john says we have to find that for ourselves. >> i think we underuse it. >> i think we underuse.

we're afraid to talk about it even. >> we've had 45 presidents. how many do you think should have been impeached? worthy of impeachment? >> more than between zero and one counting president nixon. >> well, we've already had twoyrks but not removed from office. >> senator dianne feinstein, the ranking member of the judiciary committee dodged questions whereby obstruction of justice case against this president amounted to an impeachable offense. however, she went on to say this. >> the concern rises with the day. the concern about this white house rises -- >> you're concerned about the ability of this president's to do the job rise business the day? >> oh, yes, oh, yes. i've been here for 25 years now there is a kind of instability, unpredictability. it's one issue after the other. >> do you believe it's time to think about getting him out of office? >> i believe it's time for us to finish our investigation. and i don't want to bias any

part of the investigation with premature thinking. >> suppose, john, we had a president who instead of being a normal president, got up every morning around 6:00, read the papers and started going crazy. start aid tacking everybody he doesn't like, every institution he doesn't like, pretty much like groundhog day in the movie, just over and over and over again. every day is the same. instead of doing anything different or growing in the office or learning or taking it seriously, every morning it's personal between somebody like he and comey or hillary clinton. he is ranting about these people who are coming at him. do you think that kind of president should be impeached? that kind of president. >> the question is can you impeach a president for bad tweets? consistently bad tweets? and i don't think you can. depending -- unless -- >> commutes -- >> political judgment. some people from the get-go have wanted to impeach this president from the very beginning when he got elected. so it hasn't really evolved from that. now republicans are not going to impeach donald trump. democrats are not going to impeach bill clinton. and so that's a political judgment. now if things get so bad, if the

country gets so bad, if the vast middle of the country decides that donald trump is completely incompetent and the country is going down the ditch, that's a different thing. but that's not happening right now. not when we have a political struggle within washington, d.c. people who wanted him to be impeached since he got elected still want him impeople. ed. >> why was clinton impeached? he was of sound mind and body. he made a mistake. he covered it up. >> republicans made the judgment that he lied under oath and should have been impeached by that. >> well, he did. why did they say that was enough to kick him out? >> he made the decision that impeachment was a higher form of sense cher. >> no. >> they knew they had no chance of removing him from office. the senate was never going to convict him. >> they knew that. did you think they knew is that. >> i'm not sure they knew that thing is the bigger issue. we do get to decide. >> give me some president who should have been impeached. >> no, i'm not going to go backwards. we have a president right now. should donald trump control nuclear weapons?

>> okay, suppose the economy was going down frighteningly downward, 25% unemployment, and going further. and he had no ability to deal wit. and you could tell, he had no plan. should he have been impeached? >> i'm not sure we knew at that time that herbert hoover had no ability to deal wit. >> we saw the market. they were jumping out of windows. >> i think it was clear when it was clear what hoover was doing was a total disaster, you were close enough to an election that he was moving. i think complete incompetence circumstances i think going to war in iraq measured up to that standard. thank you, ezra klein and thank you john feehery. the president has officially endorsed a man accused of pedophilia, we know about that, roy moore. and a top republican is defending tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires by implying that average americans are just wasting their money on women -- how do you actually mean that? loose women? what retalking about here? going down to the bar and buying drinks for everybody? what is he talking about? and of course booze. you're watching "hardball."

so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! "we got a yes!" start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. ♪ but it might be hard to handle ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." just days after republicans passed a tax bill that gives a handout to corporations and the very wealthy in this country, president trump this afternoon showed just how distorted his party's priorities have become. donald trump officially today, here is the day, endorsed roy moore for the senate, despite all the stories about him, most of them obviously true. choosing to overlook allegations of sexual misconduct by multiple numbers of women, including one accuser who says moore inappropriately touched her when she was 14. anyway, roy moore has denied the accusations all across and denied the latest one today. the president spoke to moore by phone on his way to utah. a white house readout of the call says it was, quote, a positive call with judge roy moore during which they discussed the state of the alabama senate race. and the senate endorsed judge moore's campaign. for more from the "hardball" round table.

katty kay, phil rucker and political analyst for msnbc, and clarence page, columnist for the chicago tribune. so katty, here is the story. we've seen it since the days the civil rights moved south has become the party of dixie. and alabama the party of poor people. it's not a wealthy state at all. it's not terrific when it comes to education. pretty good when it comes to football. but otherwise it's got problems down there. and it's also the party of wall street. which it is? trying to make a little limited on land or the guys living off carried interest and the breaks they get on wall street? who are they for? >> it's trying to do both and be both and that's its very problem. >> don't they put these two together? >> it's just not possible for one party to encompass the people on wall street who are socially liberal and the people in alabama who are clearly very socially conservative and now seem to think that it's okay to give their support to somebody who has been accused of let's

not beat around the bush, pedophilia. >> you've got a guy like orrin hatch, who was a respectful conservative. i've known the guy forever since i tried to beat him in 19176 in that race out there. the guy is an lds guy, traditional values. and yet he finds his way into liking donald trump and accepting donald trump's leadership today. he is out there saying he is for roy moore. why would orrin hatch, a straight laced lds guy why would he be for this guy? >> because he just spent four hours on air force one with president trump probably talking a little bit about that alabama race. but the bigger picture for someone like orrin hatch is he wants this tax bill to get passed. he wants it to get signed. >> why? >> it's the republican agenda. it's what he has been campaigning on for, you know, 20, 30 years to be in the senate. and finally they have a republican president who can sign some of these laws, or some of these bills into law. >> this is the socio metric overlay here. here is orrin hatch who since he first ran for the state talks

about a laborer, a member of the union in pittsburgh. he talks about the work:00 people. the average lds person isn't rich, in utah or anywhere. why would he give them all these breaks? outside there is no minimum alternative tax. they gephardt the top rate down. they get to give $22 million to their kids without any taxes. what's that got to do with the average person living in sandy, utah? >> orrin hatch is a lot like ronald reagan. they started out as fdr democrats who moved over. but look at the agenda, you know. this is the agenda now of the white working class that votes republican, swings over that way. and donald trump wants that tax bill passed too. >> self-interest. >> he also wants to keep mitt romney from that seat as well. >> talking bizarre voting, katty, i'll give you interest this delightful one. construct grassley has asked about the estate tax which republicans just wanted to slash. he argued that the tax, which

affects a small number of very wealthy americans needed to be changed. let's listen. >> i think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have. whether it's on booze or women or movies. >> katty, you were mentioning -- it's so -- what is this, a cowboy movie? booze, women? >> out of the 1950s. >> movies. are they that dirty? >> progress on this, and then this senator. >> i just saw three billboards last night that was a good clean movie. what is he talking about? >> the implication is if you get this, you'll somehow squandering the money. i don't know. i can't even defend it. >> people with a paycheck are spending their money to put food on the table, to keep the roof over their heads, to get clothe norse kids. >> conservative narrative now. >> i have to count my money to buy shoes this month.

i got to figure out the money. i can't go to a restaurant. i don't have a money to go to the movies. if you go to the movies it's 12 and 12 for both of you and two box of popcorn it 30 or 40 bucks. >> believe 80 not, this connects to roy moore, though. the round table is staying with us. we're setting the bar high again tonight. we're going get what they're going to talk about. you're watching "hardball." dad: molly! trash! ( ♪ ) whoo! ( ♪ ) mom: hey, molly? it's time to go! (bell ringing) class, let's turn to page 136, recessive traits skip generations.

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democratic party than do people identify as republicans. here is the numbers. 44% of americans identifies democrats or lean to democrat while just 37% of americans identifies republicans or lean that way. it's a five point spread. democrats have historically held the edge. but this year it expanded because of people who affiliate with the republican party actually say i'm a republican. republican identification has dropped five points in the last year. i wonder why that happened? 14% of americans say they're independents, but who don't lean either way. that's up four points. boy, that makes sense. we'll be right back after this. ♪

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>> it's general violence and it's often children. they can't get away from these environments. and unlike soldiers, they're not trained to deal wit. >> such a powerful statement. that's news. >> so chris, president trump faces a big decision. we expect him to make hit the week about whether to move the u.s. embassy in israel to jerusalem. it has a lot of implications in the region and around the world. he has been lobbied by arab leaders as well as by the president of france to keep the embassy in tel aviv. we expect he'll probably begin the process -- >> any good? >> i don't know. it's a mess down there. >> president trump already decided on friday to pull out of the united nations migration compact, which president obama entered us into last year to help the record numbers of refugees and immigrants we've got around the world right now. and so this is -- nikki haley says we prefer not to go ai lone and we'll still help refugees. >> so we're not going to take our share anymore. >> right.

>> thank you, katty kay, thank you, phil rucker, thank you, clarence page. when we return tonight, trump watch. this is "hardball." (avo) when you have type 2 diabetes, you manage your a1c, but you also have a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. non-insulin victoza® lowers a1c, and now reduces cardiovascular risk. victoza® lowers my a1c and blood sugar better than the leading branded pill. (avo) and for people with type 2 diabetes treating cardiovascular disease, victoza® is now approved to lower the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. and while it isn't for weight loss,

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trump watch. monday, december 4th, 2017. justice is grinding its way to donald trump. if he did not collude with russia during the campaign, how do we exclude all the evidence that he did? how do we exclude this new information today that he personally got the gop to change its platform regarding ukraine?

why would an american politician find time in the midst of a presidential campaign on the very eve of the nominating convention to get involved with the geopolitics of ukraine? specifically russia's interest in ukraine. why would trump's top people, his son-in-law being one of them, be commissioning general michael flynn to tell the russian ambassador what he wanted done in regard to u.s. sanctions, what he wanted russia to do with regard to israel? russia, russia, russia. it's been the pattern of the year. an american presidential candidate new to national politics focused again and again on the interests of russia. and now in december of his inaugural year, donald trump finds himself at war with the u.s. government agency trying to get to the bottom of his russian entanglement. general flynn, who went on to all those trump missions to the russians. he lies to the fbi about it, refusing to admit the nature of his missions. trump then tries to get the fbi to stop investigating the general. then fires the fbi director for

not doing what he said he must do. this whole fandango is about trump and russia, and trump trying to cover it up. and the most mystifying part of it all is the possibility that he, donald trump, was trying to do something good here to end the u.s.-russian course toward a second cold war. but if that is really the case, why doesn't he just say so? that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> mr. president, when did you find out that mike flynn lied to the fbi? >> the president admits he knew michael flynn lied to the fbi. >> well, i feel badly for general flynn. >> tonight, as the obstruction case gross, the president's lawyers review the nixon indication. >> when the president does it, that means it's not illegal. >> and the president attacks the fbi. >> robert mueller poses an existential th