having sex harassment assault charges hacking over the president? >> brush right by it. sarah huckabee sanders said the american people litigated the president's behavior by winning the election and don't feel there is to answer those questionsly inmore. thinking about 2016. see what happens heading towards 2018. >> if virginia is any sign, could be ominous. my thanks to my guests. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. chuck? >> hi, nicolle. some day you need have your show in this studio, so we can combine. >> i would love that. >> all right. if it's thursday, the president just wrapped up a meeting with chuck and mention that. >> tonight -- are democrats and the president hurdling towards the shutdown and would they really want it any other way? >> democrats have never supported shutting down government. >> we hope we're going to make some great progress for our

country. >> we'll talk to senators from both sides of the aisle. plus, what al franken's departure means for the democratic strategy ahead. >> i am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the oval office. >> finally -- turning the tables on the special counsel. how republicans are targeting bob mueller. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington and welcome to "mtp daily." we may be headed for a shutdown, or at least it sure seems like it, because the president and democrats seem to believe that the other side will blink first. congressional leaders have just finished a meeting with the president at the white house, with just 24 hours to go before the government would be forced to shut down nouch, after

meetings like this, both sides usually want to make noise what they agreed to or didn't. so in a few minutes we expect to hear something and of course will take you there live. folks, this is a group that could barely agree to even meet in the same room let alone agree on, say, immigration policy to keep the government from shutting down. but there was agreement at the start of this meeting to at least try to come to an agreement. >> we hope that we're going to make some great progress for our country. i think that will happen. >> we're here in the speerd iri let's get it done. >> we are here to make progress. >> we're here to reach a bipartisan agreement to finish out the year. >> we're here to resume conversations. >> i'm more confident than ever, mr. president, with your leadership and with the good faith of all the people in this room that before this christmas we'll produce real results for the american people that will make america stronger and more prosperous. >> well, we are here to resume the conversation as well.

what likely happened is that this group agreed not to shut down the government tomorrow. because funding is supposed to run out literally tomorrow night. so the house just voted on a stop gap two-week spending deal, which the senate likely can take up tonight and if that passes, ask yourself, what changes? this fight when it does get to the breaking point will be ugly whether it happens now or in two weeks because both democrats and the president seem confident they have nothing 20 lose politically did the government shuts down. >> are you going have a shutdown, mr. president? >> it could happen. the democrats -- are really looking at something that is very dangerous for our country. they want to have illegal immigrants pouring into our country. >> if a shutdown happens, as the president seemed to be rooting for in his tweet earlier this year it will fall on his shoulders. his party controls the senate, the house and the presidency. >> the president has made it clear he has no incentive to

blink first. reportedly he's telling confidants a shutdown might actually be good for him politically and tweeted elderer, our country needs a good sdho t shutdown, quote/unquote. and schumer has no -- democrats want daca resilients protected or else. >> are you backing off your stance from last month where you said we not leave here in december without a daca fix? >> no. i stand by that statement. we will not leave here without a daca fix. >> and the president's side? you know what they want. a wall. his base now has a new rallying cry for kate's wall after an undocumented immigrant was found not guilty in the kate steinle murder case. on top of that, the president is

headed to the alabama border tomorrow to fire up roy moore voters who want kate's wall too. and if moore loses next week, that base may want it even more. so i'm joined now by democratic senator jeff merkley of oregon, member of the appropriations and budget committees, so in the thick of this. welcome back to the show. >> thank you. good to be with you. >> let me ask with the first issue being daca, protecting the folks on daca. you heard nancy pelosi say, not leaving in december. is that what chuck shoop hechum been saying to you guys, senate democrats, that this is the end of the year priority? we're not going to agree to anything else if they don't agree to protecting daca recipients? >> let me put it this way. many of us feel very strongly that it is absolutely unfair to the d.r.e.a.m.ers in america not to get done this year. every single day more than 100 d.r.e.a.m.ers running out of official time in our country,

now in limbo. can't go to work legally. they're waiting to see if this country, where they have grown up, values them and wants them to be members of our community going forward, and we are saying we do want you to be members, and i listened to republicans come to the floor saying we want that, too, but want to wait until the march. which means three more months of people running out of legal status and let's do it now. >> senator, the president has made it clear and many of supporters of his made it three, they want more border security including the start of the wall. democrats say agree to more border security as long as it's not part of the wall subpoena there any part of you willing to compromise say, look, i don't want this law. but if the president wants a down payment in exchange for daca for now, fine. let's go. let's keep the government open? what about a deal like that, sir? >> i think the devil is all in the details. i've been down to the border in the urban areas where there are

already multiple walls, fences, that separate the two sides, night vision, drones in some places and are effective. let's not waste the american taxpayers' money. the republicans voted to spend $3 trillion to give to the richest americans. how about we do things that are efficient with our money? like infrastructure and housing, and affordable health care and education? so we'll see. i guess that's my sense is, we'll have to see the details on what the president puts forward, but wasting a great deal of money on an infrastructure that doesn't increase american safety is not the best idea in the book. >> do you concede you only have limited leverage here? they need democratic votes. no doubt, but they are the ones setting the agenda, have majorities in the senate, house and control the presidency. is there a limit to what you can ask for? >> i think question win this fight for our d.r.e.a.m.ers because i think most republicans feel it's the right thing to do as well, but there are other big

fights here. for example, republicans are saying that having spent trillions on the richest americans they now want to raise the defense budget without raising the domestic budget. i think we will absolutely fight if they're going to lift sequestration equally on both sides. >> what are some of your redlines? daca is a red line. you think if the government has to shut down over this, daca is worth it. what else? >> well, we have to fund c.h.i.p., children's health insurance plan, it's run out in a number of states and many more after the turn of the year. our community health clinics, valued by both republicans and democrat has not been reauthorized. absolutely no reason not to get that done. so those are a couple things i think we should be able to come together on. >> what happened yesterday that created this avalanche of suddenly a lot of democrats were not -- were wanting to wait, give senator franken an opportunity to defend himself before the ethics committee?

he seemed pretty frustrated today. he's going to resign but seems to feel almost as if he was forced out by the party. do you feel as if the party forced him out? >> i think what happened yesterday was the seventh rep t report, and a group of our women senators who looked at this very, very closely, reached a conclusion that that was just enough stories substantial enough, numerous enough that it was time to take a stand and i think with that seventh report many of us agreed it is it was a painful day for us, but i think the right thing was for al franken to step down and that's what he did today. >> do you think that, do you think he got a fair chance to defend himself or not? >> well, certainly he has not had a chance to go through the ethics process where the facts are really looked at, at

closely. we're going to have circumstances in the future where we're going to really have to wrestle with this. where there's a report or two, what is the line? there's not a clear line here. but what we do know is this -- that the individual roy moore running in alabama has done things that are incredibly egregious, and he should drop out of that race right now, and by the way, for that matter, the president should resign, because he certainly has a track record with more than 17 women, of horrific conduct. >> you are joining bernie sanders who also called on the president to resign today. would al franken not have resigned if roy moore wasn't an issue? >> i think that given the set of stories this probably would have played out in this manner, in a way that the moore story might have worked the other way because of the enormous contrast. i mean, roy moore did things

that were many levels different than the allegations for al franken. >> it does seem as if you want this clear contrast, and if al franken was sitting in the senate, you wouldn't have had that say contrast if roy moore does win on tuesday? >> we're certainly going to now, should roy moore win, and come, if we have the ability under the rules to ask him to be expelled, we will do so. i'm speaking for myself, but i think roy moore is unfit to serve in the senate. >> all right. senator merkley, i'll leave it there. a little breaking news. cut you off early. appreciate you coming on sharing your views. >> thank you. breaking news -- that's right. there's another. arizona republican congressman trent franks is now announcing he will be resigning amid allegations of inappropriate behavior. go to our capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt for more details on this. boy, this came fast. i think i got the roll call

alert like about 30 minutes ago? >> reporter: 33 minutes ago. here we are. so what we know right now, chuck, not too much. some of this is still kind of in the swirling discussion phase here, but we can report that trent franks, the republican congressman from arizona, is preparing to resign, and there are potentially allegations of inappropriate behavior. at this point we don't have any details beyond that, and so i want to be careful about how we're characterizing this initially. but he has been quoted in some of these stories saying they'll have a statement at some point later today, thursday. so we will see and keep an eye on all of that, but, of course, were this to be a part of this kind of wave of inappropriate behavior, that certainly would be no worthy considering capitol hill is grappling with this in a lot of different ways here. trent franks is a member of the freedom caucus from arizona. one of the more conservative

members of the conference. been here since 2002. at some points he's contemplated running for the senate. thought about it in 2012. again, we'll see what the details of this turn out to be, but potentially another member of congress stepping down. >> by the way, i think a lot of folks were expecting after given what happened yesterday with senate democrats and al franken, there would be increased calls among house republicans for blake farenthold to resign. have there been among republicans and where's the speaker on this today? >> reporter: so, chuck, so far where i know the speaker to be and i've been going back and forth with his office or farenthold over the course of the last week they feel the office of ethics recommended the ethics committee not do anything with this sexual harassment case and the suggestion that he should turn the taxpayer money, as he has pledged to do, should essentially make this case closed. now, the speaker himself, i tried to ask him a couple times

at press conferences this week about it and we've not gotten the chance to do it yet. right now she stihe is still a of congress and not hearing overwhelming calls to step down. reporting today we worked on at nbc about the house ethics panel potentially wanting to speak with the accuser but don't have that confirmed at this point. it's clearly something bubbling here and frankly, the speaker's been pretty quick making sure that his house is clean. they've had issues this year, congressman joe barton announcing he wouldn't run for re-election. congressman murphy of pennsylvania. i would say the bar has been, the speaker set a relatively high bar but this one i think could turn into something that festers a little bit, the same way franken was festering for democrats. >> the speaker brought it on himself calling on conyers to resign give didn't was similar situation as farenthold, a settled case. ethics committee -- describing with blake farenthold, could you have the same distribution of

john conjures? >> reporter: i think that's right. the cases are pretty analogous. the money settled from his office. in this case, office of compliance, which i had never heard of until all of this started and i think a lot of women on capitol hill hasn't heard of it either, clearly a lot of reforms focused on that process. i do expect the speaker, as you rightly point out, will come under more pressure about this. >> absolutely. kasie hunt, breaking news. another day, another member of congress. thank you very much. bring in tonight's panel. democratic pollster and "washington post" columnist and the "atlantic" representative is with us. often i'm afraid of looking at my news alerts sometimes pup don't know who in hollywood or who in politics. only the sports world has been left out this -- for now. jennifer rubin? >> listen, those women senators did the democrat party and a country a huge service. because the democrats do have a different stance right now. they can rid their houses of congress of these offendsers.

the republicans are stuck with donald trump and may be stuck with roy moore. and that is going to be a powerful contrast going into 2018. there is a movement out there in the country, the #metoo movement, people who got the "time" person of the year, ironically trump wanted it, and this is a bit of a cultural title wave building beyond politics. >> did you sense a -- i want to say hesitant, i don't want to put feeling -- seemed senator merkley is resigned to the fact that al frank hadn't to resign? >> there is some -- >> you can feel in a sense and frankly i've heard discomfort how the franken thing went down? >> a sense of discomfort. be clear. to double down on what you said, this happened not because of the men in the senate. this happened because of the women and in our history when big things happen it's usually on the backs of the work of women, right? kudos to those women who stood up and said, no, no, no.

this is not going to happen and forcedleadership's hand and forced it to happen. i don't look at optics of roy moore versus sitting there, optic as, these democrat women were angry, chuck, and weren't going to take t. play soit. >> we'll play from of franken's farewell speech, resignation speech, seemed pretty angry he had to do this. there was not a lot of remorse in those comments. >> no. in fact, he made a point, of course, of calling out the president and saying -- and showing how unfair was, he thought, he had to resign while the president continues in the oval office. also, you probably talked to democrats, i've talked to democrats who have discomfort especially men in the democratic party, who will say, you know i think he had to be sacrificed, both for the sake of the, you know, this argument which is important in this cultural tipping point we've reach and

frankly there is a political calculus and as much as democrats don't want to talk about it now they're looking at roy moore, looking at 2018. they're following the traditional conventional rules about this. >> you will love this. hugh hewitt this morning, guest on his radio show this morning, i was, and he, jennifer, great. democrats did republican as favor. set the precedent. you can basically expel somebody for bad behavior before they got into the senate. now they have their rationale for getting rid of roy moore if he accidentally wins? >> listen, republicans can't bring themselves to oppose him now. the rnc giving him money. the president of the united states endorsed him. do we really think that they're going to have the nerve to kick him out of after voters put him in? not nor a second. he gets in, he's in there. democrats are wrap him around their necks. >> i'm not as convincesed that he -- i think there is true discomfort with a lot of members of the republican side of that story. >> not jut discomfort what he's

done, it's their own political self-interest. next year they have to answer for roy moore all year, and they don't want to. they would rather -- >> where they're stuck, right? i agree. where they're stuck -- donald trump owns the face of the republican party and donald trump says this is his guy i want him in the senate. mitch mcconnell and establishment republicans will have a hard time kicking out of this guy who, who represents donald trump's base of the party. they will. >> cornell, put your strategic hat on. for 2018, if you're claire mccaskill, would you rather have doug jones as colleague in the senate and putting more pressure on republicans to win seats in missouri, or do you want roy moore in the senate to wrap around the neck of your opponent in missouri? sort of -- i mean, what's in the best interests of the democratic nae party in 2018? roy moore as a punching bag or one additional seat in alabama? >> well -- from a pure political standpoint, having roy moore as a punching bag especially

rallying women around it, look, plus 22. that was the, our benefit, how we won women by in virginia. project that into the future. it's a tidal wave if we're winning women by 22 points. from a strictly political standpoint, i want to have roy moore as a punching bag. >> honest man. >> do you think mitch mcconnell sees this as sort of a lose/lose but which -- which can he live with? >> i think mitch mcconnell knows, seeing the same numbers we've all seen and recognizes that it's probably a bigger problem for him to have roy moore in the senate politically speaking than it is to have that one seat, but also frankly, he doesn't want roy moore, the person, in the senate. doesn't want to deal with him in the senate. it's a nightmare for mitch mcconnell. >> not a reliable vote on anything, jennifer. >> no, no. if you think tom cotton is a grandstander, or, you know, ted cruz -- like -- >> please. he's going to think ted cruz is

like a leadership puppet compared to roy moore. >> exactly. it's interesting. this is the story of republicans' lives, doing things they have to, they hate, losing because the alternative think think is losing their base and seen on substantive banners and now seen on this. >> re are rockin' and rollin' here, snuck in breaking news, steal ad time way. take a pause. bring in my next guest. republican senator ron johnson of wisconsin a member of the budget committee. i want multiple conversations with you and i don't know how many time we have, but let me start with this fight over funding the government. i know you guys will get the two weeks done. to get it to december 22nd. are you comfortable with daca being part of the negotiations for the december 22nd budget negotiation? >> well, chuck, listen, i want to fix that problem, and i think president trump was absolutely right in giving us six months to

do so. let's put our -- you know, nose to the grindstone and come up way compromised solution nofor that and we get border security and close legal loopholes producing incentives for people to come to the kinlt legally. a reasonable approach to solve the daca program and solves law of order. >> do it by december 22nd? >> no. >> i'll be honest, senator, you were honest. quick answer. >> no. i don't think we will be able to. >> feels you aren't that far away? meaning, i've had democrats say they're willing to pump in more border security as long it's a the not for the wall and plenty republicans like yourself going i want to protect these daca recipients. this is -- you guys have bigger divides than this. >> well, first of all, there's too much on our plate in the next couple of weeks so i don't think so. hopefully in january we can come together and fix that problem pine hope so. >> if democrats aren't do that

are you willing to negotiate? >> there will be negotiation. it's not going to just be a d.r.e.a.m.er fix but a combination of fixing the daca problem and from my standpoint, looking for closing loopholes. down on the san diego border, met with immigration judges. their primary complaint, all the legal cases, created loopholes in the law, incentivized people come to the country illegally. the exact same time of attitude. end incentive to have more people come to this country illegally. stop the flow. >> let me ask you whether you have other red lines. talked about daca. this is a little arcane, but of the deal that could be struck here, what is a -- what part of this are you most fearful of that they may be part of the deal you won't want to support other than daca right now? >> well, look. what i absolutely hate is everybody recognizes that we

have, do not have the type of military readiness we need. don't have the type of training and resources to protect the young men and women who step up to the plate to defend this country. we all agree on that, a briefing exactly on military readiness. drives me crazy when already trillions in debt, recognizing hallowing on military, need to spend more on defense, the price paid, more domestic spending when we can't afford it. if that's the price we pay to make sure or men and women have the equipment needed to keep themselves and this nation safe we have to swallow that, but it drive s me nuts. >> in an odd way i think you would support raising domestic spending, if you had to? >> drives me nuts, but if that's the price we have to pay to make sure we keep our military men and women safe, that's the price we have to pay. we've paid it time and time again bu are mortgaging our children's future. hopefully at some point get

rationale behavior in this place, and not happy about participation and said among -- among the assurances you got for your support of the tax bill in the senate, particularly in the issue of pass-throughs. this is an issue you care deeply about, that you were promised a seat on the conference committee. you didn't get invited? >> no. seated at the table and discussed exactly how pass-throughs would be treated within the overall package. i never expected to be assigned on the conference committee itself wound rather be involved behind the scenes with the staff where it all gets ironed out. a seat at the table as discussed and decided on, so i fully expect that, that was my assurance and i'm expecting that to be honored. >> but you don't feel snubbed on the conference? is that a miscommunication? somebody used the word conference or? >> i never used it. never expected to be on the

committee. i want a participating seat at the table as treatment for passers is discussed and decided on. in other words, not consulted, not just input and they go behind closed doors and come out way solution try to ram down my throat. i want to be fully involved ins discussions and the decision. >> i want to ask about senator franken's decision. do you think he made the right decision? or do you think he deserved time to defend himself before the ethics committee? >> it was his decision. he made it. a lot of pressure from within his own caucus. so i won't second guess his decision of that at all. chuck, as much as i hate to see how prevalent this type of sexual abuse, this kind of predatory behavior is in this country, i'm very glad that women have had the courage to come forward and men are becoming, being held accountable. i've got two daughters. this is reprehensible behavior. i'm hoping men of all ages start realizing how their actions can effect women long-term and have

serious psychological problems long-term. so i hope they end it, and then -- the only way to end it, if people are exposed and held accountable. >> pretty -- tough comments there referencing your daughters. how do you reconcile that and the president? >> president trump was duly elected by the american public. just like president obama i don't necessarily agree on everything but will do everything i can to work with whoever is president to make sure the nation is safe, secure and we have opportunities for every american. >> i understand that. talking about the personal. this is obviously -- he's not a role model on the personal behavior front. i take it you don't believe he is? do you? >> again, duly elected. i'll try to work with him to keep this nation safe, secure and prosper us. >> does that mean if roy moore wins you believe he should be seated? >> well, by a supreme court decision he has to be seated, but then probably what will happen immediately, an ethics investigation will begin.

i wish judge moore would have resigned from his candidacy. i don't know why he'd want to put himself or quite honestly the twham will probably be ca women that will be called before through this process nap will nap he gets elected. >> i'm guessing, would you prefer a different outcome at this point? even though it may mean less republican vote? >> listen, the voters of alabama will choose and we'll deal with it after they've made their decision. >> senator ron johnson, i told you i had a bunch of stuff to talk to you about. i got some of it. thanks for your viewviews. >> have a great day. >> you got it. and from ryan and mcconnell and schumer and pelosi on their meeting with the president. the big takeaway, they've agreed to nothing -- yet, and still to come as we told you earlier, al franken, he resigned but went down swinging. hear his message on the senate floor, next. ♪

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welcome back. we just had breaking news that republican congressman trent franks is expected to resign nap came hours after democratic senator al franken announced that he would resign. the minnesota democrat said today he would step down in the coming weeks amid multiple accusations of sexual misconduct. the tone of his address on the senate floor was more defiant and that remothersful. he defended his legacy and insisted he did nothing to

dishonor the senate while a senator. franken was under extreme pressure from colleagues to resign and in the speech sounded like a guy who feels like he is being used as a political pawn in a larger war. as we've said, democrats are cleaning house trying to gain the high ground over republicans when it comes to dealing with the sexual harassment issue and franken went out of his way to criticize said republicans. >> i am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the oval office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the senate with the full support of his party. >> minnesota's democratic governor mark dayton says he will announce his pick for franken's successor in the coming days. that person, if they choose to run could, do so in 2018. a lot of speculation is that mark dayton, the lieutenant governor, will get appointed but

not run. we shall see. speaking of members of congress, a former member of congress, former congressman and msnbc political analyst harold ford jr. fired from morgan stanley after a misconduct probe there. huffington post broke the story after speaking with the accuser, a woman who worked with ford in a professional capacity not a morgan stanley employee, this happened according to the huffington post alleged ford harassed her forcibly grabbed her one evening in manhattan leading a security guard to come to her assistance. he declined to comment further. the "post" didn't reveal the woman's name at her request and spoke with two people who'll were aware of the incident. harold ford jr. vehemently denies this saying this simply did not happen.

i have not forcibly grabbed any man or woman in and life and plans to bring a lawsuit against the huffington post reporter and morgan stanley for wrongful determination. ford is a political analyst for msnbc and does appear frequently on on both msnbc and nbc news as a commentator. we'll be right back. i just got my cashback match, is this for real? yep. we match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? uh huh! let it go! whoo! get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover.

weraise their voice to sayo lethat this presidentle is unfit for office and needs to go. i love it! yes! yes! [ chuckles ] there it is -- over there! mcminnville, tennessee... poughkeepsie, new york... milton, indiana... chattahoochee, florida... wow... we're looking at the whole country. not just the coasts. even in utah, we're starting to realize trump has been doing things that are against our laws. i definitely worry about war. north korea. i don't want that guy's hand near the bomb. sick to my stomach. he's not the kind of person that should be running our country. the things that he does has consequences. is this going to be here for my grandchildren? he's not being held accountable. if we have the vote, like we have for election day, they will impeach him. times square is the crossroads of the world.

we need everyone to go and put their name down at needtoimpeach.com. we need to speak up together and demand an end to this presidency.

. there is no shortage of opinions out there. i can tell you that the fbi i see is tens of thousands of agents and analysts and staff working their tails off to keep americans safe. >> there is no finer institution than the fbi. welcome back. that was new fbi fib director christian fer wray appearing before the house judiciary committee. the scope of the questions as is often the case differed dramatically depending if the

member of congress was a democrat or a republican. but wray came prepared to defend the integrity and independence of both the fbi and special counsel bob mueller and his handling of the russia investigation. there appears to be a full-on campaign waged by some house republicans and conservative media against mueller. the strategy isn't new. democrats tried similar tactics to discredit ken starr during this investigation of clinton in the '90s. as this investigation revs up and people in the president's inner circle face questions on capitol hill, will the political tactics end up working and how much pressure do folks feel under that circumstance? joining me a professor at the university of alabama law school and happens to be in washington today. good to see you. >> good to see you, chuck. >> let me ask about this. it's not new for a prosecutor when you're doing a public corruption case essentially, whatever it is. going after a governor, a

potentially, a president, a city councilman that they're going to fight back very publicly. it can have an impact on the prosecutors. how much so? >> so probably not much at all on bob mueller, and many career prosecutors ascribe to the view if you're making people angry, you're doing your job. if your friends are as mad at you as your enemies are you're probably hitting the sweet spot. >> what do you make of the criticism, a lot of house republicans picked up on the dismissed fbi agent from the mueller case also involved in the hillary clinton case. >> right. >> and obviously, there is some investigation into that. he was having an affair with somebody. a separate part but discovered through text messages. >> uh-huh. >> obviously, any little bit of skepticism about the investigators can feed things, but should the president feel as if, hey what about that? should he -- should he have the right to complain about something like that?

>> you know, everybody has their own personal politics. right? i did as a prosecutor. we're all people with our own views. what we look for in prosecutors and investigators is that they set the views aside at the door and they don't come into play when as prosecutors and investigators strictly as the facts in the case. what agent strzok did was wrong and people can take great confidence in both the integrity of the investigation and bob mueller, he immediately pulled him out of the line. an agent by all accounts one of the most competent acts at this work and mueller sacrificed him because he showed bad judgment. that gives me eastern moven mor confidence in the integrity of this process. >> how down prevent yourself -- you're in an investigation and everybody has professional integrity, but you're convinced i know i'm investigating a guilty person, perhaps, but i don't know what the charge is. >> uh-huh. >> it's possible to end up

creating your own confirmation bias, right? that is the concern. you have an agent a point of view thinking, boy, this guy shouldn't be president. you know? that has to be a concern that you sort of, like, you're only looking for anything that proves your theory and you're almost discounting anything that might disprove it? >> sure. confirmation bias is a risk and why the fbi has a set of policies and procedures set up to keep the views of any one person from controlling an investigation. so strzok alone couldn't, for instance, have written comey's comments. they were written by a group, comey had the final signoff. even interviews are done by more than one agent. theories are looked at by more than one agent. decisions are made as a group so that you can't taint the process. let's just assume that somebody had a confirmation bias they wanted to put into effect. right? they take great steps and great effort to ensure that that can't happen. >> i have thave to ask you a le

question. amateurs non-lawyers who have to play one on tv heard donald trump jr. apparently give a father/son attorney/client privilege because an attorney was in the room? i have an attorney on my side who is a lawyer. does that mean everything that happens in my -- does this mean now everything that happens in my meeting is now under the umbrella of attorney/client privilege? >> i'm rusty but a former appellate chief and did a lot of looking at attorney lsh sli/cli privilege. been to law school, teach at a law school. only covers conversations between an attorney and his client on the topic that involves the representation, and if there's a third person in the room, that they waives the attorney/client privilege? >> no matter who the person is? >> unless a spouse. that's the spousal communication issue, but the whole reason we have an attorney lsh clie/clien

privilege is so people can tell the truth their attorney. any other reason, no privilege. >> anything you heard of a father/son privilege, only exists is one is a minor? >> alternative privilege, we'll have to call it. >> i sigh what you did there. >> just going to leave it there, considering my history with the word "alternative." appreciate it. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. why i've been obsessed with the alabama special election for a long time and it was long before roy moore. i'll share. be right back. about thinking. i mean, think of all the things that think these days. thinking planes. thinking cars. thinking phones. businesses are thinking. factories are thinking. distribution plants are thinking. plant plants are thinking. even your toaster is thinking. honey, clive owen's in our kitchen. i'm leaving. oh never mind, he's leaving. there's so much thinking. even this thing is thinking. is this thing thinking? this thing is thinking! businesses are up to their necks in knowledge. let me illustrate that for you.

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welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with one of our obsessed from back in april when the date of next week's special election was set. here's part of what we told you back then. >> these special elections are lisle little i lunds unto themselves and tend to be extraordinarily competitive no matter the state how blue or red it is. turnout lower and unique dynamics at play. >> don't overlook this special election. at 2010 scott brown was in deep blue massachusetts. we know what happened there. dynamics at play make it worth watching plus a guy names strange? stranger things have happened. right? >> that was before a guy named moore showed up. eight months later, no idea roy moore was going to run and certainly didn't know he'd be accused of all of the thinks he's been accused ofened did not

know that the president and the republican party would go him and haw and support him regardless of those accusations and they're supporting him. we did know these kinds of elections are notoriously unpredictable. that's sure been true. no party what's a special election because they're special. all that unpredictability is taking us to alabama and we'll bring you the show from alabama tomorrow. we'll be back with more "mtp daily" from washington in a minute and from alabama tomorrow. i've always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free. it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. even well fitting dentures let in food particles just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. super poligrip free made even the kiwi an enjoyable experience try super poligrip free. ♪

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they always refer to me as master sergeant. they really appreciate the military family, and it really shows. we've got auto insurance, homeowners insurance. had an accident with a vehicle, i actually called usaa before we called the police. usaa was there hands-on very quick very prompt. i feel like we're being handled as people that actually have a genuine need. we're the webber family and we are usaa members for life. usaa, get your insurance quote today. time for "the lid." the panel is back. i want to talk a little bit about going after the special counsel. obviously. look, cornell kel belcher, the clinton white house, and ken starr never recovered but didn't mess with the investigation. still filed arms of impeachment.

can sully a reputation and although i argue baylor sullied his reputation permanently but it doesn't end the investigation. >> it doesn't. >> i was looking at the numbers. when you look at quinnipiac polling out shows he that you have now the majority of americans who think the trump campaign coordinated with the russians. so this is not something that's going away. this is a big deal. >> meanwhile i would say, if you watch conservative media right now, they are getting harder and harder hammering mueller as just this total corrupt figure that needs to be taken the out. >> instead of you telling the viewers that, let's hear -- exhibit a right here. mr. hannity? show us what he was talking about. >> robert mueller has assembled the most partisan special counsel in history. it is the epitome of the washington, d.c. sewer and swamp. and mueller's stooges literally

are doing everything within their power and then some to try to remove president trump from office. a total political sham. it is a witch hunt. it needs to be stopped before the deep state can overthrow the president that you the american people voted for. >> jennifer, you have been a believer that the president is looking for a rationale to fire mueller. and at some point, sean hannity, it goes to mckay's point here. there seems to be a conditioning of the base that this is an oak thing to do. >> correct. everything from, this should be wrapped up at the year's end. where did that come from? they made it up. to phony ethics issues, to this empty rhetoric. yes. i think they are heading that way because there is no escape. mueller has a grand jury. if they try to fire him, those same investigators, it goes on.

it never dies. ed just because mueller is out, doesn't mean the fbi is out. three special prosecutors have been fired. two of them had a successor. >> it is interesting to hear he's the most partisan special counsel in history. i was thinking, what does hillary have to say about that? >> i think she would differ. the problem is senate republicans. i think we've heard some senate republicans say this is a line, if you cross, it is a no go, right? so i think there is a process work, do senate republicans hold them accountable? i think the president would fire him in a minute if he thought senate republicans would let him get away with it. >> there was a foray to try to stop this. there were two bills being sponsored. >> they're still there. they haven't done anything with they will. i wonder if they'll gin them up

again. >> it feels like we've loaded the gun and don't make us pull the trigger. >> a lot of questions about whether those bills are constitutional. they could do something real simple like have a resolution with 100 members of the senate saying if you fire the special prosecutor, we're going to take very serious action. >> what is serious action? what is accountability? >> i think the constitutional argument is a strong one. congress could hire mueller. >> a lot of people have recommended that. let's put democrats in the majority. checks and balances. >> do you want the democrats to be running an impeachment? >> no. >> don't you think it is inevitable because the base wants it? >> and why certain members of the house bring it up boggles my mind. i love congressman green but i think it gets in the way of a

larger message, a larger narrative that we're trying to move. >> there is going to be a second senate seat up in minnesota. i say second because this is normally, 2018 is klobuchar's material. now we have the special, it will be held in conjunction with the regularly scheduled elections. there is a name being floated of a minnesota native who you could argue should have also been on the "time" cover as the original whistle blower, and it is gretchen carlson. a minnesota native. we don't know for sure what party. maybe she runs as an independent. maybe as a democrat. nobody has ruled it out yet. >> i would ask, what are her chances? what does the association with fox news do? >> i think she's the martyr to

the cause. i think this would be great tv. >> a recovering -- >> and besides, do we think donald trump would have the self-discipline not to attack her every day? you want to make the election about this issue? >> so it sounds like she's making the case -- >> i think it will be a crowded field. a very crowded field. >> i don't think it is totally out of the question. al franken runs again. just throwing it out there. stick around. you're not sticking around. i have to kick you off. strangely enough, another senator is leaving the hill today and he also announced that he's doing that. that's next.

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in case you missed it, al franken wasn't the only senator saying goodbye. what a strange short trip it's been. literally. luther strange gave his farewell address almost ten months after he filled the seat vacated by jeff sessions when he became attorney general. if you remember, this is how we welcomed senator strange to the senate. >> and senator strange, welcome to washington. it can be a strange place so maybe you'll end up fitting right in. guess what? people are strange when they're a stranger. sorry. i couldn't help the references. even though he didn't have time to become a giant of the senate, strange was already a giant in the senate. at 6'9", he is in the record books as the tallest senator

ever. like many senators before him, he used his farewell address to urge his colleagues to compromise across the aisle a little bit. we'll find out who will take over for big luther next week after the alabama special election. by the way, "mtp daily" will be live ahead of that big election. that's all we have for tonight. "the beat" withari melber now. 8 seconds late. >> don't worry about it. we're not counting. tonight we have new e-mails just bleekd the famous trump tower meeting. >> this is a breaking story. whatever was said at the trump tower meeting, whatever people thought went on there, the claim from the trump folks was always that this was a one-off meeting. if even it was a bad idea to hold the meeting with russians offering dirt on hillary clinton, that was it. it was isolated, alone. it was a