i'm yasmin vossoughian along with ayman mohyeldin and lewis bergdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. we call it a tipping point. so many accusations, so many cuts, so many drip, drip, drip. when it got to the 14-year-old's story, that was enough for me. i said i can't vote for roy moore. the state of alabama deserves better. i think we've got a lot of great republicans that could have won and cared for the state beautifully and served in the senate honorably. >> that's something you don't see every day. >> yeah. richard shelby saying yesterday he could not vote for roy moore and instead wrote in a distinguished republican name. democrat doug jones seized upon shelby's comments, quote, i can work with senator shelby better tan roy moore can work with anybody. good morning. it is monday, december 11th.

welcome to "morning joe." with us, national analyst for nbc news jon heilman. national political reporter for nbc news, carol lee and chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university, eddie clowd. >> richard shelby, a guy who, by the way, was a democrat back in the '80s, became a republican in the early '90s and has just been an extraordinarily popular across that state. by the way he's remained popular because he focuses on the rural areas. pretty significant. >> extraordinarily popular, extraordinarily conservative. also someone who is not a tv

hacker. does not go on tv all the time. with all due respect, not lindsey graham, someone constantly on tv. he made a choice yesterday on that sunday to do something he doesn't normally do, go on a sunday show, knowing he would get this question, wanting to put his thumb on the scale or weigh in here on a significant way. this was a very calculated act by someone who doesn't normally do this kind of thing, designed to try to have a genuine influence on this election. it wasn't someone caught off guard. >> the timing. >> it's a big move. >> a real conservative, mika. alabama conservative. grew up a democrat, became a republican during the clinton administration when he just couldn't be a democrat anymore. seated in tuscaloosa. you can't go across tuscaloosa or look at that campus or even look at the county. look what they've done with mercedes-benz without

understanding that richard shelby has had a big, big impact on it. that's why, again, it's not just some yacker going on tv. he has the deepest of roots in central alabama and that is something. >> candidate doug jones campaigning alongside senator cory booker of new jersey and former massachusetts governor duvall patrick to help push african-american voters to the polls. this, as roy moore kept a low profile. the republican held no campaign events and even skipped sunday church services. buzz feed reporting that. however, moore received help from a valuable ally, president trump, a robo call for the candidate and campaigned for him miles outside of mobile in pensacola, florida. first the robo call. >> hi. this is president donald trump

and i need alabama to go vote for roy moore. roy moore is the guy we need to pass our make america great again agenda. roy is a conservative who will help me steer this country back on track after eight years of the obama disaster. get out and vote for roy moore. his vote is our republican senate and it's needed. this guy is screaming we want roy moore and he's right. we can't afford to have a democrat who is completely controlled by nancy pelosi and chuck schumer. we can't do t his name is jones. he's their total puppet and everybody knows it. so get out and vote for roy moor moore. >> so he's in. obviously, he's in. what's interesting is you

towelly have doug jones -- not doug jones but roy moore in hiding. >> just go dark. >> hiding in an unnamed bunker in west virginia. >> the other interesting thing is that the president has made this huge push saying he needs to be the next senator from alabama. if he does win it will be interesting to see if he does support the president's agenda on everything. there's no guarantee that he will vote lockstep with everything the president wants. the president is out there, saying he will do everything that he asks for. there's no guarantee of that. >> what do you make of doug jones? do you think he has a chance of winning? we saw he was with members of the black community in alabama. do you sense that there is going to start -- are we going to start seeing this sort of turnout, significant turnout

that we saw maybe not approaching obama numbers but certainly higher than what hillary got? >> i'm not sure. they need obama-like numbers within the black community for jones to have a chance. we saw what happened in virginia. >> right. >> we saw a lot of african-american voters, particularly african-american women put their thumb on the scale and have outcomes. it has a lot to do with voter i.d. laws, 31 dmv areas. the fact of the folks having -- confronting them, block them from voting will have an impact on the number of folks coming out. it's an interesting issue. >> i'll just point out, african-american votes are really important for doug jones but they're not going to make the difference. barack obama, historic amounts of african-american turnout in 2012 and only got 39% of the vote in alabama. you're not going to -- that's in a presidential year with the most minority turnout you can

imagine. he's going to have to get a bunch of republicans who would normally vote for a republican to either stay home or vote for him. even if he gets the greatest african-american turnout ever, he has to get a lot but -- >> he has to walk that delicate balance. i don't know that he's doing it well. >> why do you say that? >> cory booker and governor duvall may alienate those who think he's way too liberal. unearthed by cnn, u.s. senate candidate roy moore thinks america would be better off if it eliminated every constitutional amendment of the last 200 years. take a listen. >> personally, i would like to see an amendment that says all the amendments after 10 are

unjust. it would eliminate many problems. some people don't understand how some of these amendments have completely tried to wreck the form of government that our forefathers intended. >> moore's campaign spokesperson told cnn moore does not believe all amendments after the tenth should be eliminated. he also said hitler once said you tell a big enough lie long enough, people begin to believe it. and that's the problem. the host asked what really happened on 9/11, moore said i think they need to explore that, yes, but it's something that's already done and now we have to live with the consequences. >> it's hard to know exactly where to start here. but i think starting with -- go

back and see what we've seen over the past week or two of some of these older clips now that people are looking even closer. he believes that the 13th and 14th amendments should be done away with. which, of course, were the amendments after the civil war. that ended slavery. of course, he also came out last week with a quote that said we were -- when was america last great again? a single black audience member asked and he responded back -- times of slavery, families were closer together. vladimir putin, talking about how america is the center of the evil of the world and putin may be more of a kindred spirit of him. these actually show why so many people like myself who would normally vote for a conservative thought that roy moore was

unqualified even before the washington post started putting out these stories about very young teenage girls. >> see, for you, joe, there's not an opposition between being conservative and being decent. >> but he's not conservative either. my conservative friends would tell you being against the 13th and 14th amendment is not conservative. aligning with putin is not conservative. that's something donald trump does. but that's not something that conservatives do. conservatives don't see america as the root of evil in the world. we actually think america is great and we know we've fed and freed more people on this planet than any other country in the history of mankind. we're kind of proud to be americans. roy moore is not. donald trump is not. >> that's the first claim i wanted to make. you just clarified it.

>> let's not forget the 19th amendment, too, just for the sake of the women at the table. >> right. >> let's not forget about that one. >> you grew up in pensacola. i grew up in moss point, mississippi. >> moss point. >> we've seen this kind of american madness before. we know what this is. we know exactly what it is. we know exactly who roy moore is. we've seen it. >> right. >> that person, right, has been part of my landscape since i was a young man, since i was a young boy. i know what he's doing. i know who he is. we need to call him for who he is, what he is. he's a bigot who is running for the u.s. senate and he's a pedophile. once we name him as those two things, then maybe we could say that those who are willing to support him, we might need to question whether they're decent, too, going back to my first point. >> the only thing i've been grappling with this weekend is how this guy wins. if he does win, then everything

that i have been telling myself the past 54 years about a new south that has moved forward, that has moved on may actually not be the case. i've got to say, i've said this before to people and they didn't believe me. but i was there, they weren't. i was born in georgia. then we moved to meridian, mississippi. kind of deep south. we lived in pensacola, florida. very proud to call it the redneck riviera and call it home. pensacola, florida, it is home i went to school in tuscaloosa, alabama, for four years. i love -- i love those people. i love them. and then i went down to gainesville, florida, still

southern part. and i was a middle-class guy that hung out with working class kids and middle class kids. i never heard -- i just didn't in 54 years, never heard my friends make racist comments, racially insensitive comments. i just didn't. maybe on the playground at 5, 6, 7, 8 in mississippi. even then the teachers would grab them by the ears, yank them in the office and throw them in the office. that's why i don't understand how they vote for this man on tuesday. >> i think the focus group explains the pedophile claim, which i think is actually stirring up votes for roy moore. it's stirring up anger. i really do. >> can i ask really quickly, because you grew up in the south, too. am i naive? >> to a certain extent, yes.

one of the beautiful things and one of the beautifully tragic things about the country is that there is a kind of innocence and willful ignorance that happens on one side of the tracks about why there are tracks in the first place, right? i say tracks in the south because it's usually what divides the black side of town from the white side of town. and when you're on the white side of town, everything is normalized. it's like oxygen. and the reality of the black side of town, it's just that's over there. right? >> uh-huh. >> i remember when we moved from one side of moss point to the other. my dad was the second african-american hired at the post office in pascagoula, mississippi. remember those old tonka trucks? all of a sudden i heard, stop playing with that, n word. i had to grab my truck and walk inside. my dad was a vietnam vet, went out and handled his business. but the idea of this not happening -- it happened to me

when i was 8 years old and i had a real striking experience there. >> that is. >> it's part of the oxygen of the south. to be honest with you, it's not just the south. often times we want to make that region bear the burden of the national sin. it's america's madness. >> look at the focus group of moore voters. they were asked about the sexual misconduct allegations against their candidate. >> how many women have to come forward before you say, wait a minute, where there's smoke, there's fire. >> legitimacy, not just how many. how many are actually not being paid or being coerced to do this? >> how many of them do you think are being paid? >> all of them. >> all of them? >> all of them. >> by show of hands, how many do you think all the women are being paid? seriously? >> to me there are only two women that maybe have a smoking gun. but the women, their reputations

were questionable at the time. >> it doesn't sound like it went beyond -- there were still clothes on. it doesn't sound like it went beyond anything and as soon as the girl said she wasn't comfortable he took her home. >> i guess my question is, you blame her. she's 14. >> i'm not blaming her. i'm blaming both of them. so, i didn't say that i thought he was without sin. it's possible he did it. but it's possible that he could be forgiven for -- i don't think he raped her. >> let's be real. it was a different world. 40 years ago in alabama, people could get married at 13 and 14 years old. my grandmother, at 13, was married. at 15 had two children and a husband and a job. if roy moore was guilty, if he was at the mall, hitting on this 14-year-old, 40 years ago in alabama, there's a lot of mamas and daddies would be thrilled

that their 14-year-old was getting hit on by a district attorney. >> roy moore is not a miserable man. this man has more integrity than you can find in the entire congress right now. don't fall for the george sorros assassination plan. the truth will come out. these women are all going to be proven -- just like the 16 that went against president trump. >> jon heilman, you've done some focus groups in your time. >> wow! >> frank luntz appeared to -- openly challenging his focus group in a way you don't usually -- >> yeah. let's agree. he was like, are you serious? >> in a way that made it even more compelling, pushing his focus group. >> he did a good job there and got people, by doing that, got to some truths about what some of the people in that community really, genuinely feel. you could see a couple of different sides to it, things that had to do with generational

change in, again, certain parts of that state. people remembering things from their past that the guy who spoke about the incident -- family history, the notion that his grandfather or grandmother had married at that age. whatever you think of that, it is -- he's going back to a personal experience in his family and a piece of history that's real for him that gives him permission to be for roy moore. i have no idea how pervasive that is. you could sense things in that room, that people that touched on visceral things for them. that is part of what's going on here. >> carol, you know, what's so fascinating, everybody finds in that room justification to vote for roy moore. >> yeah. >> and for people in the media who are shocked and staggered by

this, frank luntz, if he had gotten ten bill clinton supporters together in 1999 and showed them lisa myers' interview of anita broderick and all the other interviews of women that bill clinton was accused of raping or assaulting. >> i think that -- >> thank you. siri is getting in on the debate. broderick did an interview with lisa myers. it would have looked the same way. >> very similar. >> on the other side. >> right. and you've seen a reckoning among those democrats now. a lot of them are trying to walk that back and rethink how they -- things that they said at that time and how they handled that situation. the other thing that i thought was interested at that focus group, where these women will be proved wrong just like those accusers of donald trump. last year really set the tone

for what we're seeing now. there's a complete distrust of us, the media, of people who talk about, make accusations, particularly if they come through us or gloria allred. >> if you are going to vote for donald trump and two or three weeks before the election suddenly all the women decide to come out at that time your going to be suspicious. if roy moore is moving towards a general election and then three or four weeks beforehand they become more suspicious. it's been 40 years. why is this dropping now that we're in the general election? >> you see people saying that, why now? he ran all these other races and has been well known in this state and nobody said anything any other previous time. i think that yearbook signature incident is really important. it just reinforced everything people think about fake news.

this isn't real. even if it's just a portion of that, it's enough. it's enough for it to sew doubt among people who are maybe on the fence about this. >> and actually all the focus on the accusations, the women, the yearbooks, has taken away from the rest of the roy moore story which is corroborated as on the record and could help people lead alabama into the future as opposed to sticking with roy moore. but the distraction has been the accusations. >> same roy moore who, this weekend we found out, john, wants to get rid of the constitutional amendments that would reinstitute slavery and take away women's suffrage. >> we heard him romanticizing the slave era that families were intact. obviously not the case for african-american families, who were ripped apart by the system of slavery. to go to your point about the focus groups we did, it was really striking.

when we were going to do these donald trump focus groups, we would do the same things frank did. he gave money to hillary clinton. he used to be for national health care. you would push them. as you push them on all the things that should have, in the context of a republican primary, disqualified donald trump, they wanted to make excuses for trump. they would find a reason why it was okay that he was for national health care. why it was okay that he gave money to democrats. all the things we know about how trump wasn't a real republican. when you find a group of voters who are making excuses on the part -- on behalf of the candidate, finding a reason to be for them, no matter how much it stretches logic, that say powerful political thing if you're a candidate. everybody is genuinely skeptical of politicians. when you're finding people who are looking for reasons to defy logic, that's incredible political asset and why moore is still in this race. and maybe the favorite. >> and you go back -- one of the most remarkable things to me

during the 2016 primaries was when donald trump came out in south carolina, defending planned parenthood. donald trump defended planned parenthood when he was campaigning in south carolina. and had a massive victory there. now people in alabama are saying they can't vote for doug jones because he supports organizations like planned parenthood. and what it shows is that we no longer vote based on issues. we don't vote on ideas or ideology. we vote based on symbols. >> tribe. >> and tribe and symbolism. and as i've said a billion times when i first campaigned in 1994, i found out after knocking on four doors, america saw the world this way. you're either on jane fonda's side or you're on john wayne's side. and there was no middle ground.

not in 1994, not 23 years later in 2017. that's where we are. that's why ideas don't matter. being conservative doesn't matter. trump being a democrat doesn't matter. trump being a liberal his whole life doesn't matter. trump giving more money to the dnc than anybody on bob mueller's team throughout his life, giving money to chuck schumer, ton of money to rahm emmanuel. it doesn't matter. donald trump is a symbol that some can cling to. >> well, still ahead on "morning joe," carol lee has new reporting on the mueller investigation. what happened in the 18 days before the white house being told their national security adviser, michael flynn, was susceptible to blackmail by russia and when he was finally let go? the special counsel is trying to piece it together. first here is bill karins with a check on the forecast and the ongoing wildfires out west. bill? >> boy, those pictures, bill,

are just savage. >> 6,000 fire personnel and aerial drops. this fire, the thomas fire, continues to grow. now the fifth largest wildfire in recorded california history. this is december. there's no other fires in december in the top 20. this is their rainy season. and they can't get control of this blaze. it is 240,000 acres. and it continues to spread. there is no rain in the forecast for the next seven days. the humidity is very low. we'll continue occasionally to get gusty winds. that's just making this so difficult for these firefighters to fight. and today 16 million people are under the red flag warnings. we'll see gusts up to 30 miles per hour, maybe 45 in the mountains. the humidity is very low. there's no end in sight to this. there's no end to the dry weather and breezy conditions. just imagine being on the front of those fire lines. the next winter storm, we dealt with it over the weekend. nice pretty snow over the weekend. southeast was impacted friday.

this is the next one coming down through the great lakes. winter weather watches and warnings through northern portions of new england. how much snow are we talking? this will not be a big huge ordeal. as far as the snow is going to go -- get to the map. here it is. one to two inches of areas throughout michigan. the mountains could get six to 12" of snow. this is great for ski country as we head towards the holidays at the end of the month. talk about fresh powder here. ski resorts that haven't had much this winter so far. behind this, a lot of cold, too. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations,

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30 past the hour. carol lee is out with new reporting this morning in an nbc news exclusive entitled 18 crucial days, what did the president know and when did he know it?

what's the latest that you have on the mueller investigation, specifically, carol? >> what we've learned is that robert mueller is interviewing witnesses and focusing in on this 18 days. and those are after sally yates warned don mcgann, the white house counsel, that michael flynn could be blackmailed by russians because he wasn't being truthful to the ambassador and others in the trump orbit. mueller is focusing on these 18 days. what's significant about that, one, it could relate to obstruction of justice. people who have been interviewed and asked questions about this get the sense that he's trying to figure out if there was a cover-up. why wasn't flynn fired for 18 days after sally yates warned them? it also gives some insight into what mueller would want from don mcgann and how significant michael flynn's cooperation could be in terms of looking at

what happened inside the white house. and so much focus is on the campaign. and now we have another window into kind of what robert mueller is looking at in terms of that critical time. >> any clues specifically about what he's looking at? >> he's asking witnesses to essentially walk him through each of those 18 days. what happened, what were the discussions and trying to figure out -- you know, you could deduce from that he's trying to figure out whether the president knew and when the president knew that michael flynn lied to the fbi and how that may relate to his conversation with james comey, saying, could you let the flynn thing go? so it's all kind of ties together and it shows also why, you know, the president's tweets matter and why his lawyers are trying to kind of calm him down and get him to not lash out on twitter. because there was so much focus after he tweeted that he fired flynn because he lied to the fbi and to the vice president.

>> jon, it's all relative, but have we noticed the president going more off a teleprompter for the most part and also being a bit more measured in his tweets since confessing to obstruction of justice on that weekend tweet last weekend or the weekend before? >> it's all relative but, yes. you look at last week. you get to the end, when he was heading down to pensacola, there was a lot of speculation on friday, given everything that happened last week that under normal circumstances he would have gone off in pensacola. people were like trump is going to be nuts today. he's going to get crazy in pensacola. he was, again, all relative, by trumpian standards, he was pretty disciplined. normally the weekends are the times when he -- >> right. >> this weekend, very quiet. very quiet weekend for trump relative to the kinds of offscript lunacy that sometimes comes out of him when's

unattended, wakes up on a saturday and gets on the twitter machine. he has been pretty calm and pretty disciplined since then. >> and the speech was, again even though the subject matter may have been far afield from other presidents. >> right. >> it had the flow, at least the writing of a -- >> normal speech. >> -- traditional presidential speech. >> political speech. >> i forget the exact words but america's recovery will be forged by -- >> lot of sickness. >> during the streets of this and -- in the hearts of americans. >> uh-huh. >> i say that because it matters. when they say it matters, what i'm saying is that at least the last week or two, it's almost as if somebody did get to him and say you just admitted you obstructed justice. now listen we've been telling you for a year to show some discipline when you speak and when you tweet. i want you to know that there's

nothing bob mueller could have ever unearthed more than that tweet that you gave, mr. president. if you want to go to jail for the rest of your life, you can tweet whatever you want. if you want us to have any chance of helping you beat obstruction of justice charges, you may want to calm down. >> how do you square that with what seemed, this weekend, a concerted attack on mueller from every vantage point? >> that's the thing. he's having people who are actually horrific human beings, as far as i'm concerned, when it comes to respecting the constitution, going out and basically selling their soul to the political devil and actually trying to undermine constitutional norms. saying the exact opposite of what they were saying during bill clinton's investigations. what's been happening in right-wing media has been absolutely disgusting. but he's letting other people do it. he's not doing it so much. >> they're doing it. >> to be clear one thing he did

over the weekend was launch a bunch of attacks on the press. again, those things are despicable. in a weird way they are on script for him. what they're not doing is leading him down the path of making mistakes on twitter that could get him in trouble legally. they are politically -- they're despicable on substance. >> he's going to start now? >> politically they are in his wheelhouse. >> those attacks on the media are politically safe and they're legally safe. >> not going to go to jail for those. >> i'm sure if anybody is advising him. if his lawyers are advising him, it's okay if i attack the press, right? sure, mr. president. >> go crazy. >> another way in which -- it's a safer way because it doesn't focus on bob mueller, for the president to attack the russian investigation and try to discredit it, discredit us in relation. so it's all related in that sense. and, you know, the white house has refused to say since the president's tweet, it's a simple

question. when did the president know that michael flynn lied to the fbi? they have refused to say that. and what we've seen in the days since then is an effort to try to attack the media, push pack and distract from all of that. what we've learned in our reporting that robert mueller will try to get to that. we've also spoken with legal experts who said even setting aside the president, if don mcgann, white house counsel, was told that michael flynn had lied to the vice president and then knew that michael flynn spoke to the fbi, wouldn't he go and talk to michael flynn and say, you know, did you lie to the fbi? and so there's all sorts of questi questions. what we heard over the weekend is another attempt to discredit us. >> on the media, there's a flurry of mistakes that the media has been making last week or two, specifically on russia. >> right. >> and so that has given the president a lot of targets in

the press. >> no pass. nobody in the media would want to take a pass on it. but in the media, especially when some of the mistakes you're talking about happened, apologize and say they were wrong, it was actually a mistake. we're not talking about lies. which is what the president does. >> "the new york daily news" opinion editor wrote, josh g greenman. thousands of people in the media. some make mistakes. they are regrettable and almost always lead to apologies and/or discipline. what's your excuse? coming up a new poll finds number of voters who identify as republican is dropping. we'll talk to congressman steve sibers, the man responsible for getting republicans elected to the house. we're back in a moment. [ keyboard clacking ]

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welcome back. a new polling shows a decline in

voters who identify with republican. 42% of voters called themselves republicans. that new number is 37%, a drop of five. welcome steve stivers of ohio. >> good morning. >> even in the best of times, at parties in power usually lose pretty big. reagan did it in '82. so clinton did it in '94. you have a president, though, with historically low approval ratings. what do you do to stop the dam

from bursting? >> we do what we've done in the five special elections we've won, 5-0 in special elections. we know how to get our voters out, how to run campaigns. we've recruited good candidates. that's what we're doing in 2018. >> how worried are you about future retirements from the caucus? >> so i'm not very worried about retirements. right now there are five competitive seats with republicans retiring, five competitive seats with democrats retiring. it's about a push on retirements. if you look at more ruby red republican seats we have a ton of retirements there. they're not going to flip parties. the only retirements i would be worried about are competitive seats that could actually change the balance of races. right now there's about 50 races in play. democrats need to expand the field if they're going to have a shot to take the house. >> you're not under the sense that there are a bunch of republicans in those competitive -- potentially competitive seats who are waiting in the wings to drop over the course of the next

few -- >> if you're in a competitive seat you're in a fight every day. if you know you're not doing it anymore, you're going to tell people right away. i don't see a ton of those coming up. there's always one or two that can come up. it's rumored that martha mcsally might run in arizona. if that happens my understanding that there are two or three great candidates, including the head of the hispanic chamber of commerce and she's a great candidate as well and could, i think, hold that seat in the tucson area. >> carol? >> how do you plan to sell the tax bill in 2018? and do you expect that people will feel the benefits by the time they vote next november? >> i think people will feel the benefits because in january, after we do the changes, withholding tables will be changed and people will see a little more money in their pocket. the most important thing about tax reform is not the $1100 on average that the average family will see in their pocket. it's really about economic growth. it's about jobs, which will

drive wages up. we had a great jobs report last week with about 20% more jobs than expected by the analysts. but wage growth has been stagnant. what we need is, you know, a little pressure on wages. economic growth will do that. so that's what tax reform is really about, is economic growth. and economic growth can help solve a lot of our other fiscal problems in this country. >> eddie? >> when you look at that poll data, it's interesting. in terms of the decline. you guys are getting hit among white women and among millennials. how do you grapple or tackle the issue that the republican party is simply the party of old white men? let me be more specific. old rich white men? how do you tackle that in the '18 -- >> part of it is our recruiting candidates. our recruiting chair from upstate new york. eddie edwards out of new hampshire, navy veteran, former

police chief. happens to be african-american. we've got 26 female recruits in seats we can win, more female recruits than we have ever had, more african-american members of the house we've had any time since reconstruction. we are actively working to expand our party and grow our party and we're going to continue to do that. >> how many seats -- do you know off the top of your head how many seats are held by republicans that hillary won? >> 23. >> good number of those are, i think, in california and new york. >> california, new york, a few other places. that's correct. >> are you concerned that the tax bill, which will increase taxes in a sense for small business owners in states like new york and california, are you concerned that your members in those vulnerable seat also get hit? >> i think what you're talking about is the reduction of the state and local tax deduction, eliminated in the senate plan

but changed and reduced in the house plan. i expect us to make some changes in the conference report that make people in those high tax states do a little better. i'm not overly worried about it because i believe that our tax plan will grow the economy and people will see it in their paycheck but they'll also see it in their prospects for jobs and how fast the economy is growing. i think if people make a little more because the economy is growing and pay a little more taxes, they net more in their pocket which is really what matters to us. >> all right. >> chairman of the national republican committee congressman steve stivers, thank you so much for being on the show. coming up, senator lindsey graham calls for a special counsel investigation into the clinton e-mail scandal and the fbi. >> going golfing with the president this weekend. >> i think he's looking for a job and golfing with the president again. >> seriously. >> "morning joe" is coming right back.

we have a new segment here. it's a yuletide segment. we hope you like it. >> a very drump christmas? >> no. >> you can download on it spotify. it's so good. just say, alexa, play a very drump's christmas. >> we listen to it on a loop at my house. >> we have a new segment here. this is about when public figures whose salary now pay actually advertise for presidential golf courses and resorts and facilities. let's go over to whatever that desk is called with john right now. he has a tweet from this weekend. >> advertising and sucking up in one swoop lindsey graham, senator lindsey graham from

south carolina, our friend last night at about 5:00 in the afternoon, 6:00 yesterday, trump international golf club is a spectacular golf course. great day of fun playing with@pot with@potus@ @realdonald trump. >> just in case people miss this and don't know where they're going to be spending their holidays golfing, lindsey graham is here using his twitter account to promote the president's golf course. >> and that blue check mark means that's the real lindsey graham. that's not a bot doing that. that's actually lindsey. >> trump international golf course is a spectacular golf course. >> 18 holes. >> and at the same time, him bashing robert mueller, a great

american who actually led america through 9/11 pretty well. >> it's fascinating the ethics adviser that resigned from the trump administration responded to his tweet. it's okay that you had fun golfing but the presidency is not supposed to be for profit. so no more spectacular. >> john wanted to listen again to donald trump's robo call. he found it interesting. >> i did. let's listen. >> hi. this is president trump, and i need alabama to go vote for roy moore. roy moore is the guy we need to pass our make america great again agenda. roy is a conservative who helped me steer this country back on track after eight years of the obama disaster. get out and vote for roy moore. his vote is our republican

senate, and it's needed. >> coming up, "the washington post" bob costa and "the new york times" peter baker will join us with their latest reporting. "morning joe" back in just a moment. you can't predict the market. but through good times and bad... ...at t. rowe price... ...we've helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence.

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this guy screaming we want roy moore. he's right. we can't afford to have a liberal democrat who is completely controlled by nancy pelosi and chuck schumer. we can't do it. can't do it.

>> his name is jones, and he's their total puppet. everybody knows it. he will never vote for us, so get out and vote for roy moore. do it. >> president trump campaigning for roy moore in pensacola, florida. it is one day before voters in alabama choose their next u.s. senator. but where was roy moore? >> last weekend of a really tight weekend is when you go around. >> you shake every hand. >> everywhere. >> knock on every door. >> planting yard signs. going to walmart. what's up? i was just dropping by wall nart, just wanted to say high. >> stand on the corner. anyhow, welcome back to "morning joe." >> wait a second. hold on, mika. she was nowhere this weekend. >> nowhere to be found. >> nowhere to be found. there's a lot going on but not with roy moore. with us we have national affairs

analyst john heilemann. carol lee, chair of the department of african american studies at princeton, eddie glod junior and political writer for the new york types, nick confessore. also with us, political reporter for the washington post, robert costa. it does not end there. historian john meacham joins us. >>. >> and john meacham, elmer fudd, wawawa. >> the first reviews are. it's looking like the "star wars" franchise is strong. >> the force is strong. after the slight disappointment. i know it's -- >> four of seven?

>> it's a mashing of all the "star wars" movie. >> you don't like the new testame testament? it was a masher for the old one. >> i liked "rogue one." >> this is a new york times elitist kind of view, isn't it? >> talk about "star wars." >> that sort of is like being a springsteen fan and not liking "born to run". >> it is weird. >> come on, please. >> one of the outtakes from the eastern shuffle is like -- >> slides on nebraska, man. that's the only thing. >> i was going to go there, but that was just so elitist. you know, the b sides of nebraska. >> why don't we go around and ask everybody what they did this weekend? >> no. alabama/u.s. democratic

candidate doug jones had a very busy weekend campaigning alongside senator cory booker of new jersey. and former massachusetts governor to help push african american voters to the polls. this as roy moore kept a low profile. the republican held no campaign events and even skipped sunday church services, buzz feed reports. moore got help from president trump who reportcorded a robo c for the president. >> hi. this is president president trump, and i said alabama to vote for roy moore. roy moore is the guy we need to pass our make america great again agenda. roy is a conservative who will help me steer this country back on track after eight years of obama disaster. get out and vote for roy moore. his vote is our republican senate and it's needed. >> yeah. that sounded strange. >> yeah. bob costa, so talk about if you

were the alabama race first, and more importantly, actually, how it fits with this battle inside the republican party. >> doug jones spent the weekend campaigning with senator booker and others. he needs strong african american turnout in cities like birmingham, montgomery, but there's going to be a real test for the jones campaign because as much as they're trying to stoke turnout by democrats, by campaigning with booker who has been a harsh critic of president trump, they may be pushing republican voters away. so many voters i spoke to last week on the ground and in alabama say they're willing to consider jones but they still like president trump. they're part of the trump base. that trump boost for roy moore would be a real significant factor form in turnout on the republican side. >> bob, talk about senator shelby coming out yesterday. he's not a guy that guys on sunday talk shows as much as

john heilemann pointed out. he was there for a purpose. his purpose was he distances himself from the gop candidate which is pretty remarkable in fact let's take a listen. >> there's a time -- we call it a tipping point, and i think so many accusations, so many cuts, so many drip, drip, drip when it got to the 14-year-old story, that was enough for me. i did i can't vote for roy moore. the state of alabama deserves better. i think we've got a lot of great republicans that could have won and carried the state beautifully and served in the senate honorably. >> senator shelby is no mitch mcconnell when it comes to alabama. he obsesses on rural parts of that state. he's from central alabama.

he's a democrat turned republican in the height of the clinton administration. how significant do you think that may be in telling other republicans even maybe just establishment republicans it's okay to vote for the democrat this one time? >> joe, talking to dozens of voters, suburban republicans in places like huntsville and mobile, you get the sense this is a fiercely republican state but also a fiercely proud state and they're embarrassed, some of the republicans by the candidacy of roy moore, and they believe their state's identity and reputation is on the line on tuesday. they want the businesses in the aerospace industry and the automobile industry to keep coming in, and they think this race is just like it was with gender neutral bathrooms in north carolina. if it goes toward moore, they really worry about the business consequences for alabama. >> and john, when i graduated from alabama in ' 85, one of the

things that struck me, i loved going to the university of alabama. i loved the campus, and the people in the town. some of the actual people that went to school there i could do without, but the people that lived in the town, the community, i absolutely loved it. and even in 1985, there were a lot of students that were embarrassed. there was sort of this nagging embarrassment because of what happened in the 60s and what happened in parts of the 70s. and i was like man, you got to -- you know, you got to put that behind you. this is a great college. this is a great state. well, my god, here we are 20, 30 years later, and the state of alabama is having to grapple with this again. >> again. yeah. this is i think one element of this that hasn't got an lot of attention is basically roy moore is reading from george wallace's handbook, the 1962 campaign handbook where he ended up in

the inauguration in '63 saying segregation today, tomorrow, forever. he was a figure of defiance, a kind of merry defiance, really. >> how did wallace get elected in 1982, though? >> well, he said i was wrong. he came back. he served those years. he'd been shot in 1972. he'd run his wife to succeed himself in kind of a huey long goes east move. to me the great difference here, and really the fascinating thing about today is wallace when he was in the standoffs with kennedy and with johnson over civil rights, there was a kind of lost cause ethos to it. it was he wasn't really expecting to win, and, in fact, he welcomed the fight.

he actually told aides with a wistfulness, we may see a federal occupation because that gave him a noble struggle in which he would lose, and as you know southern heros tend to lose. there's a romance in defeat. here's the difference. roy moore and donald trump aren't interested in defeat. they aren't interested in the romance of a lost cause. they want to win. and they want to carry this cause forward. and that's what's at stake tomorrow. >> so, nick, you pointed out it's brave of shelby to do what he did given the fact that roy moore or you think probably will win. why? >> i thought for senator shelby to come out on the eve of the election when the candidate he's attacking is basically ahead and more likely to win than lose -- >> and why is he more likely to win? >> it's alabama. look, what moore is doing is banking that the essential political character of the state will assert itself.

that he can rev up people's suspicion of outsiders and the media and say, look, if you vote for doug joebnes, you're handina victory to all the other people you hate. and jones is not a candidate that i think has a strong identity or presence. who is he? what's he for? it's really all about roy moore, the entire race. i think for shelby is come out is a gamble. this guy could be his colleague in few weeks or months. it's rare you see that kind of attack when the odds are against you in that's why i thought it was brave. >> i think it's a strong statement by shelby. he has just been reelected in 2016. he won with 65% of the vote. he consistently wins about 26% of the vote in that state. he's pretty politically secure in his position in alabama. not to in any way diminish the fact he's trying to make a strong statement. the only modified comment a little bit in terms of bravery.

he's going to get reelected. he has six years to fix the problem, and it's going to be a safe race. shelby is on strong footing, but it's extraordinary his career, the guy has been in alabama clicks since the late 1960s, and was a law and order republican for a long time. was the special attorney general for a period of time before he went to the congress and then the senate. he's the kind of republican who would speak to the kind of voters that jones needs. because the african american voters are not going to be enough. he can turn them out as we talked about earlier. barack obama turned out record numbers of african americans in 2008 and 2012. you need a big black turnout for jones to win. but that's not going to be enough. it's going to be a bunch of white republicans who are going to need to switch parties basically and vote for jones, and shelby's the kind of person who sends an important signal to

them. >> you're right about shelby. people may say you know me, i'm one of you. richard shelby is one of them. he is. he is a guy from central alabama they've known for a very, very long time, and they trust him and trust him for good reason. the guy's been responsible for a lot of growth around tuscaloosa and tuscaloosa county and all of alabama. >> but joe, let's not forget that president trump has a lot of align as well. think about wednesday morning. should doug jones eke out a victory in the deep south weeks after the democrats made gains in the south in virginia, this is now becoming a tighter senate. the president's political credibility with his own party is on the line. if the president can't pull moore over, even with all of moore's controversies, he's going to face a real kricrisis within the republican party. he went there in the robo call,

the rally in pensacola. he has put himself into the center of the political calculation of whatever happens tomorrow. >> and eddie glod, with great respect to cory booker and -- is that going to help the doug jones rally the vote he's looking for? >> it may. i think there's some structural impediments in terms of voter suppression and voter i.d. laws that may affect turnout. i think the representative is doing interesting work in terms of trying to galvanize black voters. i think there's opinion a tipping point with regard to race. i got dill kikilled on twitter . i want to say this beyond race. i think evangelicals are facing a crisis moment. i was thinking about o'connor's statement about the south as not

exactly a christ-centered region but a christ-haunted region. there's a sense in which this support of roy moore throws evangelicals into a space that's a crisis space, and what will it look like moving forward, particularly with regard to white evangelicals. >> john meacham, why don't you pick up on that? i grew up in the deep south. i'm talking about all these places i knew up, but i grew up in the baptist church. i was first baptist and, you know, and pensacola or georgia, spent my life there. and i got to say, based on what they use to judge growing up as a kid -- but then also seeing

the church grow. this is a profound crisis, and it's staggering to me that evangelicals and leaders can look at donald trump and roy moore and get in a pulpit and say go out and vote for him. >> well, it remind me kal thomas co-wrote a book maybe 20 years ago called" blinded by might ". it was a critique of the religious right arguing the movement as it developed from the carter/reagan years forward had lost its way in the sense that it had decided that power itself was the goal to pursue. not to try to move politics closer to one's own views but simply to win power within the arena. and i think that's fundamentally the crisis, so to speak, that

voters are facing. do they want -- is the supreme court so important that you would vote for someone who on every other measure you would not trust to watch your kids? and apparently a lot of voters have decided that. there's that great line in the psalms about put not thigh try in princes. what a lot of people in 2016 going forward have done have decided the prince is actually more important than the principles that they otherwise live by. >> all right. john, robert, thank you both for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," what putin really wants. that's julia loffe's new cover story in the atlantic in which she thinks vladimir putin is no chess master. he's a gambling.

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all right. we have breaking news. according to russia's state-run task news agency, vladimir putin made a surprise visit to syria earlier today where he met with syria's asaad at a military base. putin also ordered the withdrawal of russian troops from syria announcing that russia and syria have destroyed one of the most capable terror groups. joining us now staff writer at the atlantic, julia i don't hq ioffe. you write a forgery, a couple of groups of hackers and a drip of well timed leaks were all it took to throw american politics into chaos. whether and to what extent the trump campaign was complicit in the russian efforts is the

subject of ak siective inquirie today. regardless, putin pulled off a spectacular political heist on a shoe string budget. this point is lost on many americans. the subversion of the election was as much a product of improve vags and long range vision. what makes putin dangerous is a tactical flexibility and adaptability, a willingness to experiment to disrupt, to take big risks. almost don't know who you're talking about here, putin or donald trump sometimes, julia. >> yeah. i mean, the two men are very -- they have similar tactics. playing the street against the urban elite. using these kind of cultural issues as wedge issues to divide and conquer. there are a lot of similarities. >> so, what -- so what does

vladimir putin want? that's the tease on the cover. at the end of the day, what's his goal? >> i think what people don't understand in america when they talk about putin or envision putin as this kind of james bond-like villain, a super master mind who knows everything, can plan everything, is at the end of the day, he's kind of a dictator who is just trying to stay in power for another year. because once he falls from power, it's unclear what happens to him. does he get killed like gaddafi? does he get put on trial like saddam hussein? what happens to him? what happens to the people around him who have made a killing on corrupt dealings? what happens to them? the point is to stay in power as long as he can. and a lot of it is a kind of bubble gum and scotch tape operation. what looks to us like he's a super master mind? not the case.

>> but what challenges are there? what active challenges are there to his power? who would step forward? >> well, he's done a really good job clearing the rivals. one of the main reasons he's popular, actually, is that nobody can imagine an alternative to vladimir putin. there hasn't been an alternative to vladimir putin for 18 years. when that's the basis of your popularity, that's not great, but there are political opposition figures. some likely they're going to seize power any time soon. the biggest challenges are the economy which continues to flounder going into its sixth year. the long-term overseas adventures that are costly and become even more costly over time like the one in syria you mentioned where there are more russian fighters on the side of isis than from any other

country, and they're going to go home at some point. >> julia, tell us how the popular image here in the u.s. of putin as a brilliant master mind who is behind every contact with trump world planning everything plays in russia. >> well, it doesn't really play in russia. the russians are kind of -- they don't know what to do with this. they'd like to take credit. they'd like to be the super power that americans portray them to be. i mean, just like the russians think the satate department is behind everything regardless of bureaucracy and limited funding, there's no bigger fan of russian power, nobody who thinks that russia is stronger than the americans. so we're kind of part of this putin cult of personality. yeah. >> wow. carol? >> julia, to follow on that a little bit. how does the republican sort of

embrace a vladimir putin or talking him up with things we've seen other republicans say similar things. how does that help him at home in russia? >> so, again, they're kind of -- they kind of have their hands tied. they don't know what to do with this. they'd like to be the country we portray them to be, but then they'd have to take credit for what they did in the 2016 election. so they're kind of walking around it in this very strange way publicly. kind of half admitting to it and then backing off. but it does help them in the same way that basically pretty much everything we do here is it help putin build this kind of rally around the flag effect that there's an enemy in washington, that the national security establishment, the deep state is against russia. that there's this guy in power, donald trump, who would like to build better relations with russia and who would like to

respect vladimir putin, and that he -- but that his hands are tied by the deep state. it's very similar to the narrative that donald trump is saying which is why i keep confusing their names. >> julia, let me ask you a question. think about looking forward. so one of the most fascinating things in the peace is the discussion about how russia recruits hackers to go into the -- from the university competitions to become part of their effort. we've now had president who has basically said this is all fake news, that the encouragement of the 2016 election never happened. there's a lot of concern we're not doing anything to fortify our electoral systems. what are they doing in russia, and what can we expect in 2018, 2020 in terms of cyber espionage? >> it's unclear. we don't know. the thing is that the russians, what's interesting about this, like so many other putin's

adventures, it's blown up in his face. those sanctions he thought would get eliminated the second donald trump came into office are now here with us for a generation because of what congress did by taking away trump's power to unilaterally lift the sanctions. one of the hardest hit -- one of the agencies to suffer the most blowback from this adventure in 2016 is the fsb, the heir to the kgb. a lot of agents are in jail and are on the fbi's cyber most wantwan wanted list. they're having a lot of buyer's remorse right now. it's unclear how it will impact 2018 and 2020. the problem is that on our side, we're either focusing on donald trump and is he going to get impeached? but not on the national security aspects of this, of how we can fortify our country, and if you

talk to people who are in the fbi and the cia, our own american counterintelligence cyber ops are sitting on their hands. they haven't gotten a stigignal go after the russians in a real way. they're worried it will never come. >> julia, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> coming up, the intelligence and homeland security committee joins us with what he says is america's next big security risk. we're back in a moment. you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends, three jobs...

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all right. president trump golfed with senator lindsey graham in florida on sunday two days after graham called for an investigation of investigators. he tweeted was there collusion between goj and fusion gps to use democratic funded dossier for political and legal purposes? we need to know the answers. i will be damaging rs and ds on the senate judiciary committee to support a special counsel to investigate all things 2016, not just trump and russia. and it's long past time for a

special counsel to investigate clinton e-mail scandal, uranium one, role of fusion gps and fbi and doj bias during 2016. i mean, the president could have dictated those to him himself. they're so perfect. at friday's rally in florida, trump supporters chanted "lock her up". about hillary clinton. after which president trump said this about america's institutions. >> it's being proven we have a rigged system. doesn't happen so easy. but this system, going to be a lot of changes. this is a rigged system. this is a sick system from the inside. and, you know, there's no country like our country, but we have a lot of sickness in some of our institutions. >> wow. a lot to unpack here.

joining us now, former cia officer and member of the house intel homeland security and oversight committees. republican congressman will hurd of texas. hold that thought. nick confessore, what's lindsey doing? >> i don't know. >> is there a job opening? >> maybe he wants something at the end of the year shut down bill or something? >> republicans, please can i tell you something? you guy never get it. you never get what he's going to promise you. you never get what you want. you always get embarrassed. you always end up red-faced and adding more shame to your party. you never get what you want, and if you get the little crumbs that he might give you, they're not worth it. will hurd, when are republicans going to understand this? >> well, i think also lindsey graham is not talking for everyone. there's plenty of us -- >> i was talking to lindsey graham and republicans to walked

the plank for president trump for shame. >> my philosophy is simple. agree when you agree. disagree when you disagree, and work for the things your constituents you sent you up here. i believe the only thing we get big things done is if we do it together meaning together between republicans and democrats. we have examples of when we've done big things. the 21st centuries cures act saying we're going to double down on stopping cancer and parkinson's. we were able to do it when we were together. despite what you all talk about every morning, despite what you see above the fold on newspaper, when i crisscross my district, people want us to work together and solve problems. that's what resonates. >> what do you disagree with since you agree with what you agree with, what do you disagree with on president trump? >> i disagree with president

trump on a recent thing, roy moore. i think roy moore is an abomination to the republican party. and that's one thing republicans and democrats agree on, and the senior senator from alabama even said that alabama deserves better and the american people deserve better. i agree with that. i have 820 miles of the border. it's more border than any other member of koccongress. building a wall from sea to shining sea is the most expensive and least effective way. >> congressman, talk to us about the d.r.e.a.m.ers? you've been pushing for a fix on this in the year end bill. what would it like to leverage that bill into the negotiations when republicans are saying look, with tax reform and spending, we can't afford to throw a controversial thing in the mix? >> i'm completing my third year in congress.

i've learned there's nothing that focuses congress's collective mind more than the end of the year spending. these 800,000, 1 million young men and women have only known the united states of america. 97% of them are working or in school. 5% of them are entrepreneurs which is more than the national average. we should fix this. and i know there's a lot of conversations going on with my republican colleagues and democratic colleagues on funding a joint solution for this. i think it's going to be something -- there's going to be some border security. we don't have operational control of our border. building a wall is not the way. you should be using technology. i call it the smart wall. i think this is a way we got to get this done, because it's an important issue for our country. >> two-part question. some of the dreamers believe that some folks are asking them to sell out their family members in order to remain here.

so they've been protesting chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. somehow they're asking they have to give up on their families to remain here. what do you make of that claim? and second, what do you make of the idea that bipartisan requires you to leave your principles at the door that compromise often means in details that we leave our commitments behind? >> sure. i'll take the first part of that question. the current law is if you have come here illegally and you have to leave for ten years before you come back, and so a kid that goes through or young man or woman that goes through some u daca status, it's difficult for them to bring their parents to the united states legally because of existing law. i think that's where some of that concern around giving up

their family members. i don't think that's anybody's interest in doing that. the second issue, i don't know how washington d.c. has forgotten that compromise is actually a win/win solution. there's no such thing as a win/lose agreement. and when i was in the private sector negotiating deals, you got to make sure both sides get something out of it. it's -- it's actually figuring out what we agree on. way more unites us than divides us. we like to focus on that 20% that divides us. but there's so much more that actually unites us. that's where we can find compromise and get things done. that's what the american people want to see. >> what's the next big security risk we need to be worrying about? >> there a couple. quantum computing is one of them. it's something a lot of people don't know about. it's basically going to change the way we do computers now. one way that people understand this is encryption is basically gone under quantum computing.

that's why china and russia is sucking up as much encrypted text that they can't break now but they know at some point they'll be able to break it. a hot war between iran and saudi arabia. that is what's going on and what's been happening in yemen is scary. this is going to be one of those -- it's always been a powder keg, but it's especially dicey. it's going to be over the next few months. >> congressman will hurd, thank you for being on the show this morning. up next, president trump prepares his closing argument for major tax cuts even though a new poll shows most americans doubt it will cut their taxes. peter alexander reports for us live from the white house this morning. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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joining us from the white house, peter alexander.

peter, a big week republican's tax overhaul. the president meanwhile is set to make his final arguments for the bill this week. any word on what he might say? >> ye. good morning. spoke to several aides about this last night. the white house, the president's team expressing confidence that they have the 51 votes they need from the senate on the tax bill. the president will be delivering what they call a sort of closing argument, this final pitch in the form of a speech likely to take place, maybe wednesday, perhaps at the treasury department. there could be an audience of mung and middle class families whose stories are woven into the remarks. president trump tweeting about this over the weekend saying in effect that the bill right now is better than even projected. he called knit his words, quote, special, but what you note second down the challenges that still exist right now as they come into conference. the negotiations this week between those senate and house

republicans trying to come to better terms on some of the specifics of this. among them both bills both double the standard deduction and cut corporate tax rates both, obviously, benefit the wealthy more than the middle class. one of the significant sticking point right now obviously remains where they cap deductions on state and local taxes. that's something that's critical for lawmakers specifically in states like new york and california. and one of the real challenges right now in the waning days with the president trying to get this on his desk before christmas is the vote of the republican from maine, susan collins who said over the weekend she's not prepared to say how she'll vote on the bill. she wants to see the final bill. she wants to have amendments included in this final bill that include specifically deductions on among other things, medical expenses. that's one of the real priorities for collins. we wait to see where it goes in the days ahead. >> peter, thank you very much. president trump traveled to

jackson, mississippi on saturday to commemorate the opening of a new civil rights museum. invited by the mississippi governor, the president's 40-minute visit included a tour of the museum's kpikts honoring jailed and assassinated civil rights acoicons. he then made remarks. >> among those we honor are the christian pastors who started the civil rights movements in their own churches preaching like martin luther king junior. a man who i have studied and watched and admire for the my entire life. that we're all made in the image of our lord. trump's visit was not without controversy as it came after many prominent american leaders called on the president not to attend. citing his tendency to incite

racial divisions. a group of about 100 protesters staged a demonstration. a congressman was one of several civil rights veterans to boycott the event. >> what should the white house have done? obviously if he didn't show up, that would be seen as a slight. he did show up, that was an affront. >> address something specifically with regard to black constituencies. maybe address the question of the voting rights act. something specific with regard to the black community. >> a few weeks ago he was tweeting white supremacy media in great britain. >> it seems to me part of what was on display was just bad faith, and people why participate in a photo op, when you know someone is engaging in

a a photo op. mississippi confronting the past and present, if mississippi can do that in a substantive way, it suggests something for the nation broadly. but the governor has been interesting in a lot of ways. we have mlk day and also robert e lee day in mississippi. there's always an ambivalence around grappling with the blood dench drenched soil. inviting president trump to come is another example of that kind of waffling in terms of the confrontation, the honest c confrontation. >> all right. we are following some breaking news right now. very little information right now. but a new york city official confirmed an explosion which is near 42nd street and 8th avenue in new york city. all we know right now is that

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new york city officials confirm an explosion there. multiple ambulances have been requested to come to the scene as you can see there's a heavy police presence as well. we're waiting for more information as you can see this is an active scene. again, right near the port authority in new york city at 42nd and eighth. very busy time of year. very busy part of the biggest city. >> alex, you said port authority bus station there. >> correct, yes. >> we're following there. we know that multiple ambulances have been called to the scene. you see the heavy police presence. bringing in a lot of information. a lot of it is conflicting. we want to make sure we have the correct story. at this point, we do have confirmation of an explosion. we don't know what type. >> nick, you worked right in that area. the times is right there. what's around the area for viewers that aren't from

manhattan, aren't from new york. >> the port authority is a major commuter hub. a bus station for peopling coming in from new jersey. every few minutes in rush hour, there are buses coming in with technologiesy passengers. it's a major subway station. there are a lot of people there at the day. this is about a block away from time square. a lot or tourists coming up and down 42nd street. >> it is the heart of the city as it pertains to tourists. >> absolutely. hearing the ace subway lines are being evacuated at this moment as we speak. again, covering a report, confirmation by new york city authorities of an explosion near 4 2nd and eighth near new york city. confirmation of explosion, but we don't know what type yet. natural gas, bomb, at this point, the potentials run the

gamut. we do not know the source of the explosion. there is a very heavy police presence on the scene. multiple app balances have been called to the scene as well. now we're getting word subway lines in the area are being evacuate d as we speak. >> this is southbound view. on the right is the port authority. the place where the cabs are dropping people off. coming out of the building. i think the ambulance or the fire engine there is crossing 42nd street. to the left of that a block deep into the picture is the "new york times" building on the left. a lot police activity in front of the times building and port authority. something big is happening here. >> your point act time square. you're on the edge of time scare. >> there's never a time this is not a busy neighborhood. >> 4:00 in the neighborhood, it's busy. >> the thought go to terrorism

immediately. especially given the location. a possible pipe bomb explosion, but we don't have confirmation of that at this point. >> again, this is the busiest part of new york city. anybody that's been to new york after thanksgiving and between thanksgiving and new year understand this is also the busiest time of year for tourism, tourists flooding into new york city. >> again, we're following breaking news. reports of an explosion at the entrance to the new york city port authority at 42nd and eighth avenue in new york city. we have confirmation there was an explosion and multiple am plans have been called to the scene. you can see the picture on the left a massive police presence on the scene. w wabc is reporting this was a

pipe bomb. we don't have that source on our own. we are following this and have crews on the scene. nbc investigative unit is looking into find out what happened. >> as we get more information, we'll pass it on to you. for now, wile we wait for the information to come, of course this is the day before the special senate alabama election. doug jones. campaigning all across alabama. he campaigned alongside cory booker of new jersey and also former massachusetts governor to help push african-americans to the polls in that state. >> this as roy moore kept a low profile. republican held no campaign events and even skipped sunday church services, buzz feed reports. moore did get help from president trump who recorded a robo call for the candidate. >> interesting robo call. >> hi, this is president donald trump. i need alabama to go vote for roy moore. roy moore is the guy we need to pass make america great again agenda.

roy is a conservative who will help me steer the country back on track after eight years of obama disaster. get out and vote for roy moore. his vote is our republican senate and it's needed. >> his vote is our republican senate. that's a strange sentence construction. >> that was just a. >> i think he read it wrong. >> let's take a listen one more time closely to this robo call. it sounds a good bit like the end of this speech on jeremy hazelbaker jerusalem and the white house.

i i i this kind of behavior in a essential election. he's under fire and alabama has been swarming with national reporters for at least a month now.

he's not interested in talking to them, quite clearly. >> couldn't you argue that he's letting the media do the work for him? because of the atmosphere down there best to let the media cover that story over and over and over again. >> in roy moore wins this race, you can really throw out we said this after 2016. you can throw out everything that has ever been taught about what it takes to win major elections. nick h in 2016. donald trump. you couldn't find people in iowa or new hampshire early on in the process that said we've got a great ground game here. it was a vote for donald trump in the primary and seemed like a vote against hillary clinton in the general election. here, roy moore, he's doing absolutely nothing that is required to win an election and

yet, who knows, he could win. he comes out of hiding, all this material back into the public eye in the forefront of the campaign. he's hoping you know what, that happened and denied it. it's fading from memory. let's remember who i am wharkt stand for. values in alabama. the second he comes out of hiding back to talking about accusers nonstop. >> and may be confronted by the accusers. >> then you have video of roy moore, that awkward video of him not answering the question. somebody shouting things at him.

>> on top of that, with cory booker. and with needed. from roy moore point of view to the extent he can make his voters feel as though his race is being carpet bagged that doug jones is turning to national liberal aleet elites who are go come down and steel the senate seat. to the extent it's possible if media over the next 72 hours. >> adding we had a little more information. mika may not be as widespread. this is i guess good news given what we are worried about. there is a problem. there's an explosion that was confirmed by authorities at 42nd and eighth at the port authority in new york city. we are hearing from wnbc it's a small explosive device.

the suspect is in custody and one injury. so again, you see the extremely heavy police presence outside the port authority in new york city. multiple ambulances were called to the scene, but that was probably just preventive. if jonathan details report tlg is out, which it should, he's saying we've got one small explosive device, a suspect in custody and one injury. >> we'll keep following that. if it's more than just a small explosive device. and so it seems that one of the best arguments republicans have right now for roy moore is oh, a bunch of carpet baggers are coming in out of state and you've got whether it's cory weeker or gloria or hollywood money, that would be an argument that roy moore's team is.

>> to my mind, that's just icing on the cake. something we've been talking about on the air for a while. that is almost seems as if once the republican primary had happened, the nominee can then just rely on folks voting republican. or voting democratic. there's no reason to convince those folks. they're going to vote for the republican ticket no matter what. >> let me play devils aed voe c -- adadvocate. donald trump always said alabama was a state that loved him more than any other state. he said if i lose this election, may just move to alabama. they love me there so much. that's my top state. >> you could make the argument. this is a guy that got it wrong in the primary. vote for luther strange. top state. and a state he won by how many points.

28 points. republicans aren't just blindly following old habits, are they? which makes it even more. >> makes it even more fascinating not only with luther strange. remember he pressed up on jeff sessions who is from the state as well. had to back off jeff sessions as well. i still think though even though it might not be trumpism motivating it. still seems to be using the language of tribalism. not quite comfortable with that, but the language of a party identification that's hard and fixed. then a small group in between that folks think they can convince. for the most part. folks know who they're going to vote for. even if it happens to be the case that somebody has been accused of molesting a 14-year-old. >> i think it's interesting we've now because of the way the polls have trended and the fact the roy moore strategy of laying low has worked for him.

he was in a worse position two or three weeks ago than he was today and the smart money is moore is likelier to win than jones. we say all that. i don't think any of it is wrong. we have to emphasis. donald trump has an amazing amount of political capital on the line here. the reality is the race is still really close and the polls are i think have been unreliable throughout, if doug jones pulls this out. it is going to be as much as virginia was an earthquake in the off year election back in november. it is going to be an incredible shot to the solar. amazing amount of the line for the president.

>> the polls are really hard to gauge. and we've learned that every step of the way with the presidential election as well. the one thing that always has nailed it when i think about new new hampshire focus groups you did on trump, they niled it f e from the get go. frank did some focus groups on roy moore. this was for vice news. i feel they nail it as well. take a look. >> how many women have to come forward before you say wait a minute, where there's smoke, there's fire. >> it's the legitimacy. not just how many. how many are actually not being paid or coerced to do that. >> how many do you think are being paid. >> all of them. >> all of them. >> all of them.

>> by show of hands, how many of you think all the women are being paid. seriously. >> to me, there are only two women that maybe have a smoking gun. the women's reputations were questionable at the time. it doesn't sound like it went beyond -- there was still clothes on. doesn't sound like it went beyond anything. as soon as the girl said she wasn't comfortable, he took her home. >> my question is, you blame her. she's 14. >> i'm not blaming her. i'm blaming both of them. so i didn't say that i thought he was without sin. it's possible. it's possible he could be forgiven for -- i don't think he raped her. >> let's be real. it was a different world. 40 years ago in alabama. people could get married at 13 and 14 years old. my grandmother at 13 was married at 15 had two children. and a husband. and a job.

if roy moore was guilty if he was on the mall hitting on the 14-year-old, 40 years ago in alabama, there's a lot of moms and dads that would be thrilled their daughter was getting hit on by a district attorney. >> roy moore is not a miserable man. this man has more integrity than you can find in the entire congress right now. don't fall for the george soro's assassination plan. the truth will come out. these women are all going to be proven just like the 16 that went against president trump. >> wow. >> the 16 accusers, apparently she thinks they've all been discredited. >> we don't want to sound like we're making fun. >> now, listen, it's not that.

>> this is something deeper. it's been described as tribalism. this is not new with roy moore. if we could have shown lisa meyers interview to 15 of the most educated bill clinton supporters in 2000 it would have sounded just like that and i know because i lived through it. and there was shock among democrats. they were stunned. how could you even believe. this is tribalism run amuck. >> this is compelling at the heart of american politics right now. group of people who want to vote for roy moore. and one by one seizing on every possible excuse of piece of

information they can find to justify their vote and say it was no big deal. back then it was a different time. it's george sor ooros. it's steve bannon. they will look for anything to satisfy themselves and say the media, i don't believe it. therefore it's okay to do the thing i want to do politically. >> i want to update you on the situation in new york city. senior nypd official says one person is in custody. following the explosion at 42nd street and eighth. right at the port authority. police say one person has sustained a minor injury. that person is in custody. joining us on the phone, nbc news researcher christian santana at the scene. >> good morning, when i arrived there ten minutes ago, there was a clear smell of explosion.

something like a firecracker. something you might smell. police courting off the area. gotten wider and wider with the area you can't proceed through. about 3,000 emergency service vehicles, ambulances, fire trucks, police cars that sort of thing. >> stay available and keep us posted. >> thank you. >> appears this is under control for sure. >> you know, i think, john maybe the mistake that some new politics may make are a mistake that we all make because we have such short attention spans both in and out of the media. to think it's a phenomena that starts with donald trump. or a phenomena that started with roy moore. this started back in 1968 my

parents were life long democrats and after the chaos of 68, 69, 70, 71, 72. they went republican and never went back. i remember even in 1976 with jimmy carter, a suddener, he was governor when we were there. they would have loved to vote. they would never vote for him because he was a democrat. this has been a hardening of america's arteries. a coursening of our politics. that started almost 50 years ago. >> there's a couple different things we're talking about that are kind of overlapping. the increasing particularization. there is this thing. you pointed out we can find examples of that. people find excuses for the member of their transcribe when they accused of bad things. this is an extreme case. we haven't seen whatever happens

over bad bill clinton's behavior was. none of them is accused as of now publically of having done what roy moore did. we're in a new world of extending the excuse making that people are willing to co. the kind of behavior they're willing to excuse. >> that's on the republican side. >> just at this moment. we're in new territory here. we've seen excuse making on both sides for a long time. >> i also will say and i think mika, what you're trying to say was bill clinton was accused of rape. >> pedophilia is slightly different category. i don't want to make these distinctions. they're all bad. bottom line. we have not seen accused pedophiles. >> not excusing behavior at all either. >> we understand. >> and the other thing you're pointing to that in the south, in particular, this transacti transformation where the

republican party has become the party of 60% of voters doesn't matter who the democrat is going to vote for republican pretty much any time. we pointed out a couple times today. barack obama extraordinarily popular among african-american voters. a lot of african-american voters in places like mississippi, louisiana, alabama, nonetheless, barack obama got wiped out in those states when he ran in 2008 and 2012. there is in a lot of those states the senatorial level. goodtorial level. >> another way to look at this is what makes it so extraordinary if doug jones actually wins and even makes richard shelby's statement this past weekend extraordinary. i understand he just got elected. you know what, there are a lot of republicans that just got elected and cowering at the corner and not doing what

richard shelby did. >> we'll be following the developments in the incident near the port authority in new york city in which one person was injured and in police custody. the city's former police commissioner bill bratton will join us onset. also ahead get to the new reporting on the mueller probe. west wing officials go through each day that michael flynn remained as national security adviser after the white house was warned that he was sue susceptible to russia blackmail. >> a lot of people are curious about this, i mean, i don't want to be dramatic. what actually did mike pence know? and when did mike pence know it. >> i don't think -- >> was he really as out in the dark as he has told us all. if show. >> that's a talent. >> >> that out in the dark, that is really disturbing. that everybody around him knew, but mike pence. >> come on now.

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back to the explosion in new york city this morning near time square in the subway by the port authority bus material. one person reported to be injured. sources tell wnbc the person injured is also the suspect. sources tell wnbc the suspect had wires, but there is conflicting explanations on what exactly the device was. right now it's expected to be in line with a device that didn't go off completely. joining me now, former new york police commissioner and snashl security analyst bill bratton. clearly new york city is mobilized this morning in response. talk about that response. do you have any late information on what happened there. >> the preliminary information from police officers, and i

emphasis preliminary, subject to change. it is a man in his middle 20s probably. possibly from bangladesh. been in the country about 7 years. who supposedly was setting the device off in the name of isis. definitely terrorist attack. definitely intended. as to whether the device malfunctioned or didn't function correctly. that will have to be determined. as of the moment, he is the only injured person in terms from the event. plus from the others, maybe ear issues. police have him in custody. talking with him. again this information is all preliminary. there will be an investigation of the area. there will be delays at the port authority most of the day. it wasn't a package way between the subway system and port authority between seventh and eighth avenue.

a and. >> was there indication he was heading somewhere to create maximum damage. >> trying to determine whether he tried to set the device off at that location or whether it accidentally went off. as they continue questioning of him. his injuries are not so sufficient that he's not able to be interviewed. >> we are just going to repeat what you just told us. giving us new information on the attack, the manexplosives. said he was doing so in the name of isis. >> the information is the act was being committed in the name of isis. >> and so this tunnel you were talking about between the subway system and port authority, is this the long tunnel that goes

from seventh avenue to eighth avenue or the one under eighth avenue. >> i'm not familiar with the port authority at that location. information i'm working with a package way connecting the subway. between seventh and eighth. >> this is the sort of attack, random attack you had to prepare for, the current police commissioner has to prepare for. is there any evidence that there an uptick in i take it to the streets of america. take the fights to the streets of europe. any evidence there's an uptick in attempts or. >> clear evidence they had the bombing the night after i left. jimmy o'neill's first night in office. just several weeks the attack along the hudson, the bikeway. then this one. three attacks definite terrorist

attacks. the pace is quickening as we have been indicating that it would. that new york continues to remain the focus on interest because of what is happening right now, the intense reaction anything that happens in new york brings about. >> what do you do to stop? what do do you to limit the exposure? obviously you can't stop every attack like this. big country, big city. a lot of people moving. >> good news, joe, is new york city has been intense focus on this issue. kelly created 1,000 person counter judgment intelligence unit. when i came in, we had about 800 additional uniform officers. those are the isis threat. new york spends a fortune on this because of the fact that we have most significant target. the intimacy of relationships with the federal agencies has

never been better. they are seamless. good personal relationships. professional relationships and respect. new york has continued to expand overseas force. to gather intelligence overseas and as much as can be done at this particular time with the technology, personal, collaboration is being done, but you learn from every one of these, idea is still to prevent it if you can. see something, say something. reality of today is that that you cannot prevent them all. >> president has been briefed. fbi joint terrorist and task force is on the scene. i guess the mission now is to make sure this was a loan attack. and how is that possible. >> number of things going on right now. one, they will want to ascertain very quickly, hopefully if they are able to interview the individual, is he a lone wolf or was this one of the series potentially planned.

you will start seeing immediately increase visibility at all transportation hubs with nypd state authority. it will disrupt the lines. try to get back to normal function as quickly as possible. that is the transportation hub for much of the city. >> former nypd commissioner bill bratton, thank you very much for the latest on this. coming up on morning joe, 18 usually days: what did the president know, when did he know it? carol lee's new reporting on the mueller special investigation, next on morning joe. ♪

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so carol lee is out with new reporting this morning. in an nbc news exclusive entitled 18 crucial days. what did the president know? and when did he know it. what's the latest that you have on the mueller investigations. >> what we've learned is that robert mueller is interviewing

witnesses and focusing in on 18 days and those are after sally yates warned don mcgahn that michael flynn could be blackmailed by russians because he was not being forthcoming. and telling the truth about communications with the russian ambassador to others in the trump orbit. focusing in on 18 days. what's significant is one it could relate to obstruction of justice. in the sense that people who have been interviewed and asked questions about this get the sense he's trying to figure out if there was a coverup. why wasn't flynn fired for 18 days after sally yates warned them. it also gives you insight into what mueller would want. now we have a window what robert

mueller is looking at in terms of that critical time in the white house. >> any clues what he's looking at. >> what he's asking witnesses to do is essentially walk him through each of those 18 days. what happened, what were the discussions, and trying to figure out, and, you know, you could deaccuduce from that he's trying to figure out what the president knew and when the president knew michael flynn lied to the fbi and how that may relate to conversation with james comey saying could you let the flynn thing go. so it's all kind of ties together and it shows why the president's tweets matter. there was so much focus after he tweeted he fired twine becau ed he lied to the fbi and vice president. >> it's all relative. >> have we noticed the president going more off a teleprompter.

and also being a bit more measured in his tweets since confessing to obstruction of justice on that weekend tweet. >> you looked at last week, there are a couple you get to the end. a lot of speculation on friday. given everything that happened all last week that he would under normal circumstances gone off in pensecola. people were kind of like trump is going to be nuts tonight. he's going to get crazy in pensecola. he was pretty disciplined. normally the weekends are the times he -- this weekend, very quiet. very quiet weekend for trump.

no one touches the remote control except mr. trump. big piece in the "new york times" that claims the president sometimes watches up tow eight hours of television a day. >> who did you wanoesn't. >> right. >> on loop. >> morning joe is back in a moment.

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detonate an explosive device and that it did not go off completely. isis inspired attack. the white house president trump has been briefed on the situation. and we will be monitoring it as well. now to the sweeping times piece from over the weekend. took readers instead trump's hour by hour battle for self preservati preservation. joining us now is co-author of that piece. chief white house correspondent for the times. peter baker. includes this section which says as he ends his first year in office. mr. trump is defining what it means to be president. he sees the highest office in the land much as he did the night he stunning victory of hillary clinton as to prize he

must fight to protect every. despite all his bluster, views himself less as a titan dominating the world stage than a maligned outsider engaged in a struggle toll be saken seriously according to interviews with 60 advisers, associates, friends and -- >> a look in the daily life of to president and an important look into his behind set that he still sees himself as an aggrieved outsider. watching tv four to eight hours a day. still craves attention. and one of the things that you all report on that just has to be stunning to the rest of us, he still delights in seeing his last name in newspaper headlines. >> it's interesting, one of his former advisers who worked closely with him said he for the most talked about person on the planet is very conscious of when

he's on tv, when he's in the newspaper, when he's not. he likes mixing it up. he enjoys this, you know, this battling, this arguing, this fighting, in fact. when a couple days go by, two or three days go by and it's been peaceful, he gets agitated and looks for something to pick a fight about. >> which actually explains saturday morning tweets. wasn't that jarred was away. it was just that he was out of the headlines. it was quiet and he wanted to stir things up. somebody close to him tell me he just loves getting the reaction. loves sending the tweet. having it go out and knowing immediately the more inflammatory it is, the more people will talk about it. >> he's a pot stirrer. a lot of presidents work really hard to try to calm things down and try to create a smoother political environment in which to operate. that's not the way this president rolls. he likes a combustible kind of

situation. he feels like that's where he succeeds the most. feels like that's where his base wants him to be. want him to be in there breaking china. breaking things the way -- breaking the rules. and, in fact, certainly if you go in an interview, some of the 32, 35% of the people who support him, that's what they'll tell you. they like he gets in there and people are upset about the things he does and says. in their view, he must be doing the right thing. >> peter, it's nick, the statton ear piece, four hour of tv a day. he's also president. as a guy whose covered the bush white house and the obama white house, walk us through how that time, four hours a day? the work flow. four to eight hours. at least four to eight. how does that impact the work flow of the white house and the ability of a white house to do things and get things done. >> no questions. a lot of tv time for any of us,

probably. it's not always on. the valium isn't always up. styles on mute in the dining room off the oval office. got it on going through papers or maybe having a relatively causal meeting. he keeps his eyes on the scrolling headlines at the bottom of the screen. he wants to be part of the mix. when he doesn't catch something right away. he's got super tee voe and checks it out later. staff knows how to measure moves depending what he tweeted before he gets to the office. if he tweets something from cnn or msnbc he hasn't watched fox yet. it's a different way of operating than previous presidents. the other three you mentioned i covered. president bush, obama, clinton. went out of way to avoid television as much possible. television only agitated them. see people like us talking about that presidencies and get mad because they felt we weren't fair or weren't getting it right. president obama mainly stuck to sports channels late at night.

espn. president bush, really avoided television a lot. read the papers more than people give him credit for, but realize you get worked up if you spend too much time watching shows like ours because your president of the united states and want to be focusing on policy and issues. >> as we recommended in summer. >> there's a good alternative for him. >> very good for the president to watch fox and friends. i think it would be better for everybody. >> exactly. good for you. >> one of the stories had to do with george w. bush presidency being complimentary of keith. why are you being complimentary. he's great at what he does be mr. president he's attacking you. >> why would he be attacking me talking about baseball. there was. he purposefully, like barack obama, made himself oblivious to that. >> and others like john mccain

became obsessed. mccain would watch over and over again. make him crazy. leads me to next question. peter of great interest to some people who are media obsessed. obviously trump watches as you reported in the piece, watches this show occasionally to get worked up in the morning. the show that works him up in the evening, you report, and, i believe, on the base of my reporting this is true, is don lemon at cnn. so i'm curious, what is it, i'm asking this a slightly devilish way, perhaps. what is it about don lemon that annoys the president so much. >> don memo llemon is uninhibitt he says. gives his opinions some ways. frames the issues in a way that gets under the president's skin. he likes this jolt of television he doesn't agree with it. it's kind of hate watching. he watches something he knows is

going to rile him up. like a big cup of caffeine. it's most people try to avoid things that make them upset. president trump he gets a charge out of it. part of how he operates. >> he has a different reaction. >> it's not new to his lifestyle. it happens to be new to this white house. >> i'm curious if eddy has any views. >> i got to say if peter won't say it, i will. it's a last name. lemon, because he has his reaction to that. it's a negative lemon. >> i have a question to peter. when i read the piece as an ordinary citizen, it scared me. no mention of the piece about north korea. no mention about the middle east. the only thing he knew more about the tax plan than he did about the health care bill.

what does it say about his daily routine, they're detailing it. there's no real details about these world issues that are threatening us at this moment. >> he does, we do hear from his advisers he's taking the north korea thing very seriously. it has sobered him more than you might thing than his twitter and public comments that that has in fact weighed on him in a way that you would expect for any president that's a good thing obviously. whether his response to it which is sort of keeping with his response to morning joe or other tv shows is that normal diplomatic way. obviously that's different. you talk to his avisor. they do think that weighs on him. a lot of things being a president are new to him. he's not be a senator, governor, when he encounters things like raids in yemen or issues where

suddenly he's in charge of putting people's lives in jeopardy, that would sober anybody. i think he in fact if you talk to his aides has been sobered by those things. then he gets back out on the domestic kind of hamster wheel. wants to mix it up with democrats and republicans because that's areas he's more comfortable with. >> peter baker, thank you very much. fascinating. >> up next, if people want to create a couple of people in a laboratory to discredit the republican party and white evangelicals, the perfect candidates would be donald trump and roy moore. that's what pete waner writes. veteran of reagan and both bush administrations joints us next to explain. highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms... again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service.

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joining us now, senior fellow at the ethics and public policy center pete a winner. he's out with a new op-ed for "the new york times" entitled why i can no longer call myself an evangelical republic. here's just one of the great parts of it we could have pulled, there are so many. there are times in life when the institutional ground underneath you begins to crumble and with it long-standing attachments such as the case for me when it comes to the republican party and evangelicalism. latest example is in alabama where moore, the republican senate candidate, stands accusedfed varying degrees of sexual misconduct by nine women.

the support being given by many republicans and white evangelicals to president trump and now to mr. moore have caused me to rethink my identification with both groups. not because my attachment to conservatism and christianity has weakened but rather the opposite. i consider mr. trump's republican party to be a threat to conservatism and i have concluded that the term evangelical has been so distorted that it is now undermining the christian witness. wow. that's strong. and that feels like it has happened since trump's candidacy began, pete. >> that's right. i mean, it started with the trump candidacy. i wrote early on in "the times." it was january 2016. i could never vote for him. this is the logical place to end up. which is since he is president, since the party has almost across the board embraced him, it's just difficult to stay with him and the party and then the

roy moore situation and the embrace of him, the rnc deciding that they would embrace him after distancing themselves, it, you know, ultimately was just too much for me. i think this is disgracing party and, as i said, injuring the term evangelical. >> carol. >> pete, you've seen that a number of republicans have spoken out against the president while others will just say privately what a few have said publicly. i'm wondering if you've -- if the situation is similar for you, if there are other prominent evangelicals who say what you're saying perhaps privately and whether you think there will be a movement for moore to speak publicly. >> it's a good question. i will tell you that prominent republicans have been in touch with people i've known for a long time and they don't really disagree in large measure with my assessment. a lot of evangelicals that i know are really disturbed by

donald trump and by roy moore. and for the reasons i am, they feel like that the witness of evangelicalism, that is the witness for christ for the people of christian faith is being injured and is being discredited in this whole process. i haven't heard that much from prominent evangelical leaders. the most prominent ones, ralph reed, robert jefres, larry falwell sqr, hajr., have not on trump supports, they will never stand up and say publicly what trump has done is wrong. they're really the core of his base of support. and the idea that donald trump would be a person that evangelicals would rally around is a kind of nichien inversion values. >> what about your friends, evangelical friends that still support donald trump? i get on the phone with mine

often. a lot of excuses. and they'll say, well, we're embarrassed by his behavior but he's not hillary clinton. >> right. >> is that what you hear? what do you hear? >> that is what i hear. i hear several things. one is the policy agenda. the supreme court, neil goresuch, the judges and the pro-life agenda. and they say that he will advance even if a more conservative agenda, that is what they believe. that is on one level. the second level, i hear a lot, maybe you do too, joe, is he's a fighter. there's a sense among a lot of evangelicals. there's a lot of admiral people in it. what i hear from a lot is a sense of grievance and resentment. there's a feeling that they've -- they're losing culture. and when they see donald trump, weirdly enough, they see him as somebody who's going to fight on their behalf. they feel like -- the people who

they've supported in the past have been too gentile. so as odd as it is, they feel this street fighter, this guy who pulls out switchblades and brings them to a fight, is something that seems to, for a lot of people on right, including some evangelicals, energize them. >> my good friend who is now the president of the american academy of religion declares we're witnessing the end of white evangelicalism. what do you take this crisis moment to mean, given your own position vis-a-vis trump for white evangelicalism nationally, across the country generally? >> well, i think it's very problematic. i think it's a huge turnoff to people who are not of the christian faith. they look at this and they say these people are proclaiming they are christians and this is what they stand for and they see hypocrisy. also this is doing tremendous generational damage. i had a conversation just last week with a younger evangelical

and you see it in the polling numbers. they are really troubled by this. they can't understand how people who stand for and speak out in name of their faith could be doing and saying the things that they are. but look, hopefully there will be a shake-up and sometimes viruses create their own antibodies and hopefully out of this ugly mess will eventually become -- will be a refining process and people will finally figure out -- or figure out again what the deeper and truer and higher meaning of faith is. >> here's hoping. pete wayner, thank you very much. and thank you -- >> did you say donald trump is a virus? >> well -- >> it is fascinating that people look at this guy who has debased culture in so many ways just with his tweets, with his example, as the savior of their culture? >> it's terrible. >> that culture's on the run and he's the one that saves it. it's very --

>> tomorrow morning, we're taking the show to alabama. as voters there go to the polls to pick their next u.s. senator. morning joe tomorrow live from birmingham. >> roll tide. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruehl picks up the coverage. she's got the latest details on the explosion in new york city near times square in the subway by the port authority bus terminal. >> thanks so much, mika, thanks, joe. we are following this news out of midtown manhattan. an explosion gone off inside the port authority bus terminal. it is being investigated as a terrorist attack. reports are still preliminary. but police tell nbc that a man carried an improvised explosion v device into the terminal but the device went off prematurely. a senior official with the nypd tells nbc that one person is in custody. that person was apparently injured. but there are no reports of any other serious injuries or deaths, thankfully. the fib has now joined the nypd and the b