now. >> it's 4:00 here in washington. i'm hallie jackson in for nicolle wallace for the next hour. to start this hour, we want to talk about the most important hour of the president's day. the hour when he hears about the highest level secrets, the most threatening national security risks. the stuff you don't know but that he has to know. and why the russia investigation may be messing with that hour. it stems from what a new "washington post" report describes as the president's willful denial of moscow's interference in our democracy. considered a serious threat by intelligence officials. the post writes, the result is without obvious parallel in u.s. history. a situation in which the personal insecurities of the president and his refusal to accept what even many in his administration regard as objective reality, have impaired the government's response to a national security threat. rather than search for ways to deter kremlin attacks or safeguard u.s. elections, trump has waged his own campaign to discredit the case that russia

poses any threat, and he has resisted or attempted to roll back efforts to hold moscow to account. so here's the president just a month ago not exactly holding moscow to account. >> i believe that president putin really feels, and he feels strongly, that he did not meddle in our election. what he believes is what he believes. what i believe is that we have to get to work. having russia in a friendly posture as opposed to always fighting them is an asset to our country, not a liability. >> well, today vladimir putin is returning the favor. this morning in his yearly press conference backing up president trump's position that reports of potential russian collusion are pure fiction. all of this has been invented, made up by people who are in opposition to president trump with a view to shedding a negative light on what he's doing. with us from "the washington post," white house bureau chief

philip rucker. one of the reporters that as a byline in that bombshell piece. in moscow, keir simmons and jonathan lemire. phil, i want to start with your piece out today that's driving so much of the conversation. there's a moment in which you describe that crucial hour in the president's day. what people in washington call the pdb, the presidential daily briefing. he gets a lot of information from his top intelligence officials. you write here, russia related intelligence that might draw the president's ire is in some cases clo included only in the written assessment and not raised orally. in other cases the president's main briefer, a veteran cia analyst, adjusts the order of his presentation and text aiming to soften the impact. quote if you talk about russia meddling, interference, that takes the pdb off the rails. according to a second former senior u.s. intelligence official. phil, talk about the implications of this.

that the president's own team is adjusting how they communicate to him on some of the nation's most sensitive issues because of the russia investigation and the president's, as you call it willful denial. >> yeah, hallie, the sensitivity is certainly there in the classified briefings that the president receives from intelligence officials. but it's also there in his broader discussions with other national security advisers and other figures in the government. there is a real reluctance to engage with him on russian interference because the president, nvd this goes back to a year ago, has been so skeptical of the intelligence community's conclusion that, in fact, russia did meddle, did interfere in the 2016 election with the aim of helping him win that election. he has not believed that intelligence. he has only occasionally publicly admitted to some of it but only grudgingly so at the pleas of his aides. and in one stance when he did, he regretted having said it, according to his aides. so there's a real sensitivity

with the president. some of it is a human reaction. he feels like acknowledging this interference somehow delegitimizes his electoral win which he's very proud of. he's proud of all those electoral votes he won around the country. he feels it's a swipe against him. >> given all of that, is it a done deal for the president and his top advisers and aides that he'll never accept any conclusion that russia interfered? >> i don't know that i would call it a done deal. there is work being done at the staff level within the government and in particular at the national security council among the staff, also at the state department, other parts of the government to deal with this credibly, to try to come up with some options for the u.s. to safeguard the electoral systems and protect in the future. but it's not reached the presidential level. according to our reporting, there's been no cabinet meeting, no broader national security to address the threat of russian

interference. >> put this into perspective here and past instances when there's been a national security threat to the u.s. democracy and based on phil's report with "the washington post" is saying here, the president refusing to accept it. not just that, but his advisers kind of watching their language around the president because of that. >> it's extraordinary. and the argument could be made, dangerous. the president's top priority, any president's top priority is to safeguard the american people. their physical safety, of course, but also the safety of our most cherished institutions and democracy. chief among them, our elections. and it seems that this president has a willful blind spot for this issue. i think you guys hit the nail on the head. we know how proud he is of this election. we know that he is very sensitive to any suggestion it may be illegitimate. it bugs him tremendously that he didn't win the popular vote and that he has suggested there was widespread voter fraud that cost him that. of course, there's no proof of

any of that fraud. he believes the suggestion that the russians interfered or attempted to influence people, to support him undermines his credibility, his legitimacy as being president. and, therefore, he's willing to just let this be. and not doing anything to perhaps prevent it from happening again. >> i was at a press conference at trump tower way back at the end of the transition, beginning of the administration right before inauguration when the president was asked, obviously, about russia. this is what he had to say. just refresh your memories. >> as far as hacking, i think it was russia, but i think we also get hacked by other countries and other people. >> that was as close as he got to essentially pinning the blame for election interference on moscow. but as you report, phil, he almost immediately regretted those words. he turned around to aides and said it's not me. it wasn't right.

and i wonder if that's not a significant moment when he said what we have seen every day this administration which is he's not going to back down from anything. he's not going to make concessions on anything, even something of this magnitude. >> that's right. it was a significant moment and that press conference came after the intelligence chiefs went up to trump tower about five days earlier to brief the president-elect on the intelligence community's conclusion about russian interference. and in that interim period, some of the president-elect's political advisers, reince priebus, jared kushner among them, impressed upon him how important to publicly acknowledge those intelligence findings. get this issue off his chest and move on. it was so important to president trump early on to have this warm relationship with vladimir putin, the russian president. he wanted to get along with russia. he thought russia was the key to solving problems like north korea and iran. so he was so reluctant to embrace this intelligence and his advisers were pleading with him to do it.

he finally did it, grudgingly so, and then regretted it after the fact. >> keir simmons, you were at the president's press conference. you've been in russia covering president putin's press conference there in which he was talking about these allegations of collusion with russia. there was an interesting point made by andrew weiss in "the washington post." putin has to believe this was the most successful intelligence operation in the history of russian or soviet intelligence. and i wonder what your reaction is to that. >> i'm not sure it really was necessarily that successful. i think that it's easy to pose president putin as this sophisticated political operator, but it's just as easy to argue that that intervention has backfired on russia leading to sanctions. many of the questions that president putin faced in that news conference was among the domestic economy and the issues they're facing. it's become so normal that it's almost, you know, seems irrel vent to point out but just once

again, you see the president of russia and the president of the united states echoing each other. president putin today describing those allegations of meddling in the election as delirium, madness, supporting president trump's record saying that the markets are going up because of trust in president trump. so the two of them don't need to be colluding, but they are listening to each other and so far, they seem to be in pretty close lock step, if you like. although president putin did say one thing that was interesting. he said i hope that president trump still believes in a closer relationship with russia, and i wondered if that was a little bit of telegraphing to the white house to say to the president of the united states, stay with me. >> phil rucker, the post report describes russian meddling as essentially more than worth the effort for russia. this is according to a u.s. intelligence official who was briefed on this. and so when you listen to keir's analysis from being on the

ground in russia, do you get the sense that vladimir putin is emboldened by the response or perhaps lack thereof from the president? >> there were a couple aims, according to the u.s. assessment for the russian meddling. one was to deny the white house, to keep hillary clinton from the white house. putin abhors her. did not want her to be president of the united states. the other was to capitalize on, to take advantage of the divisions in our country. the racial divisions. the class divisions and just create a divided america which has happened. and the other is to install in president trump a disruptive politician who is threatening a lot of our alliances around the world and has left our allies in europe feeling very unsteady about the direction of the u.s. presence abroad. and that all according to the u.s. intelligence officials is something that russia is pleased to see happen. >> keir, let me come to you on that same question. the idea that vladimir putin might feel emboldened. it's not like russia has stopped doing what it's been doing or

pulled back in any way. what's your sense from there? >> president putin always seems emboldened. he's the stage -- he's a master on the stage. you sit there for four hours while he's asked questions by 1,600 journalists, and he never flinches. he knows he has his own election coming next year. he knows he's going to win overwhelmingly. i think one interesting point, hallie, which people aren't talking about. we talk about the personality so much. president putin has an election next year. if donald trump wins re-election, then both of these men will be president over -- of these two countries until 2024. and then in 2024, both of them will likely leave the stage. and i guess one of the really interesting questions to ask ourselves is, what will we be left with? >> i think that's a question that i want to get to with my panel here on set. before i do, jonathan, put a button on this for me. the president has surrounded

himself with aides who have reinforced essentially his affinity toward russia, toward vladimir putin. and so the question to you, does the president's appointees, the people he puts in these high level positions, do they see political incentive to having that perspective, turning to the president and saying you're right when it comes to russia, even if there's indications he's not? >> first off, i might note if president trump had a three to four-hour press conference like president putin did, that would just finish this off. >> no, it wouldn't. >> please, do it. >> we'll thereby fin be there f. >> one thing that has changed is michael flynn. he struck a pro-russia tone in the white house. he's been replaced by general h.r. mcmaster who views russia far more warily and has been the one who, according to reporting, has finally pushed president trump to announce support for

article 5, mutual defense pact in nato, something the president initially refused to do, which many observers suggested was something that vladimir putin couldn't have scripted any better. there's nothing russia would like more than the united states' alliances with europe to be frayed somewhat. and i do think the question we ask ourselves all the time, are there people in this white house who have the stature and ability to step up to the president and tell him no. say, sir, this isn't right? whether that's a tweet or more substantial policy like this. more times than not, the answer is, there aren't those people. >> there aren't many of them, that is for sure. i want to bring in robert traynham and jonathan capehart. should advisers, the people who are surrounding the president here have to be altering their assessments to not upset the president? to not know his presidential daily briefing off the rails like the post is reporting? >> in fairness to the president,

he likes to receive information a certain way. >> that's not what this is. this is about the information that he is receiving. >> correct. something said that, one would think that any president would put the interests of the country first and accept the information that's coming in regardless of whether or not it's personal or not towards that person. what i mean by that is, if i was president, let's put it this way, and the presidential daily briefer and says, sir, there is evidence that there is some interference between your election and secretary clinton's, i would say, this is not good. what can i say publicly and what can i not say publicly? i would put the best interest of the country first -- >> you are clearly not donald trump. >> here's what we know. this is a sore spot for him and the question is, why? why is it? and can we trust this president when it comes to making foreign policy decisions, when it comes to russia? i think we can when it comes to everything else, besides russia, but i'm not sure because he clearly has a bias here. >> there's a line in the post report that struck me here. it's a white house describing

the president's refusal to acknowledge the election interference as understandably human. understandably human. is that sufficient for the commander in chief? >> no. it's not. and i want to echo what robert just said. look, for a normal president that self fades and the interest of the nation rise above. at a certain point, the president of the united states must put himself, so far, himself aside. his personal feelings, his personal wants and needs. when the national security interests of the nation are at stake, the idea that the president -- the president's advisers skirt around not to upset the president because they know he personally gets upset by the information he's receiving. puts us as a nation in a very dangerous spot. those people should be able to go to the commander in chief and say, sir, this is what's going on and these are the decisions that have to be made. and we've got people in the west

wing who will not do that. that does not make us safe. >> can i give two very specific examples. when ronald reagan heard there were deals with iran/contra, he said i've got to get this out. this is not good. when gerald ford assumed the presidency and the best interest of the country, he pardoned richard nixon. obviously, that was a political decision but also a constitutional decision to his point. rising above the office and making sure that we as a society have faith in the presidency. the question is, do we today? >> has he already either passed or failed that test? is the cake baked, 11 months in? >> look, i think -- short answer, yes. i think the cake is baked. we have seen time and again just when you hope and pray that, oh, the weight of the office is weighing on him and he's going to be, you know, presidential, he always scrubs that out within a few hours if not a few days. i've stopped looking for him to

emulate the -- his 44 predecessors. that's what worries me and scares me the most. >> jonathan and robert, i'm going to ask you to hang out. phil rucker, keir simmons. there's another house member on his way out. following claims of inappropriate sexual misconduct. and then some news today about the future of house speaker paul ryan who might, maybe, reportedly be planning his own exit strategy. we'll talk with one of the reporters who broke that story, coming up. plus, pushing for a second special counsel, raising doubts about robert mueller, even challenging the integrity of the fbi. that's what some republicans are doing to try to potentially end the russia investigation. so will it actually work? plus, following the news of that dramatic exit from the white house, that's right. omarosa, the former "apprentice" star is sharing her side of the star. and she said there is more to her story, one that could come back to haunt her former colleagues. ♪ this holiday, the real gift isn't what's inside the box.

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i'm reasonable about it and i recognize only two of us really pushing for it hard in the senate but nonetheless, what i have said consistently, privately, i guess now it's in the press, is that unless they figure out a way to increase the refundable part, higher than $1100, the way they figured out a way to give corporations an extra year of cuts, the way they figured out a way to lower the top rate for a family making a million dollars, unless they can figure out a way to add 1100

figure, i won't support the bill. >> that's a new development. sair senator marco rubio may be looking like a no vote. would he really go through with a no vote? that's one of the developing stories we're following today. right behind me on capitol hill is that lawmaker, another one now, retiring, quote/unquote, after sexual harassment allegations against him. this time republican representative blake farenthold of texas and that new report out from politico raising questions about the future of house speaker paul ryan. he says he is definitely sticking around. >> thank you very much, everybody. appreciate it. >> a head shake from paul ryan. his office says it's pure speculation that he is going anywhere. but our next guest may not be so sure. he's the author of that politico piece. tim alberta. on capitol hill, nbc's garrett haake. garrett, i want to start with

you on this marco rubio tax vote situation because it seems to me the question is not why would marco rubio now come out publicly and say he wants more funding for this child tax credit because why wouldn't he try to maximize some leverage at this moment. the question is will he really, next week if the vote comes to the floor, have the political guts to vote no? >> well, hallie, if past is prologue, the answer is probably no. marco rubio and mike lee put up an amendment to do exactly this. raise the corporate tax rate a little above 20% and use the money to add to the child tax credit. they put up an amendment to do that during the debate over this senate tax bill before it passed in the first place. when it got voted down they both voted for the final bill. while it's clear he wants to try to maximize his leverage here, and he definitely has leverage to try to use, it's less clear if he's willing to potentially be a vote that sinks this thing. you need to get mike lee or

someone else to come along with him. saying you're a no now when this bill is still very much a moving target and there's an tint to negotiate and being willing to be a no vote on a floor on a huge republican priority, are very different things. >> the president feels pretty confident that rubio is going to get behind this. >> the president said that he thinks rubio will get on board. leadership has a good relationship with rubio. he's somebody who has played ball all year long. they can continue to negotiate with him. it's just him, if rubio decides to sit on his hands and vote no and he and bob corker become the only no votes and keep everyone else on board, they could pass this bill without them but the margin is so narrow and there are so many balls in the air. this is not a risk anybody up here wants to take. >> there's one person, may be the understatement of the century to say there's perhaps a person who most wants to see this done is paul ryan, the house speaker. he dreams about getting tax reform.

tim alberta knows that. your piece is on paul ryan. it's likely not winning you a lot of friends because they're pushing back this to idea that the house speaker is thinking about winding down his wild, wonderful journey in washington. why would he step down? >> i think understanding the context of paul ryan's career arc to this point is important here. this is a guy who after the 2012 election and mitt romney lost to barack obama and ryan, of course, was the vice president nominee, he thought very hard at that point about retiring from congress. this is a guy who had spent a quarter century of his life in washington. his children have grown up back in wisconsin while he's been here four or five days a week their entire lives. he told family and friends when he came back to congress and took over the ways and means chairmanship after the 2014 midterms that his goal, his exit strategy from congress was very simply to chair that committee, rewrite the american tax code, hopefully a republican president elected in 2016 pass that into

law and then come home before the age of 50. paul ryan was very clear with friends and family about that. he reluctantly accepted the speakership. but he told payner, th eboehnert a long term prospect. >> he also says and this is one of the things you write. i'm the only guy in the modern, ra who didn't want this job. i did this because i have to do it and i'm grateful and it's a great honor. i'm not a person who covets it, and i never was. i feel liberated by that. this is not a guy who penned his claim on being speaker. garrett, as you know from your reporting after tim's piece came out, the speaker's office is pushing back. leader mcccarthy's office, stev scalise's office. there's a question about all this infighting. >> it's been fascinate, hallie. the people who have come out of the woodwork to deny this story. i had someone who worked with

paul ryan on the romney campaign and has kept up with him. he texted me and says this isn't happening. he's not going to retire. >> tim is rolling his eyes on set here, garrett. >> i'm sure he is. but this is what's happened. they've either enlisted or it's happened organically some of these allies of speaker ryan coming out to push back on this. but to your point about these other folks in the caucus. kevin mscalise. this is not going to be the same situation. if paul ryan decides to leave there are many well connected, plugged in people who could replace him. you talk about mccarthy who has put out a strong statement in support of speaker ryan. the president calls him my kevin. there are people here who can be seen as particularly ready and/or willing to step in should this actually happen. >> here's a question i wonder about. this congressional crisis, this moment of reckoning when it xhss to sexual harassment claims and whether that's playing into paul ryan's thought process.

one of the things tim writes is two friends say ryan was visibly shaken after demandi ining tren franks resign his seat saying, i didn't realize slitting throats was part of my job. he is presiding over a moment of real reckoning, not just on the hill but in the -- throughout the country, right? in hollywood and media and politics. and i just wonder what he's thinking about that. >> let's be clear. paul ryan has not fallen in love with the office of the speaker of the house. he did not want the job as he alluded to in his quote and has not found himself enamored of the job since taking it. the fact he's had to push out multiple members of congress, including trent franks who he was pretty close with, has made him like the job even less. with respect to people who worked on the ryan/romney campaign who probably don't speak to the speaker very often. now ryan presiding over this moment in american politics. when donald trump had the

"access hollywood" tape come out, he was disgusted and told reince priebus that he wanted trump off the ticket. >> today he's living through something else and that is blake farenthold announcing he's going to retire but not right now. this push/pull of resign or retire? he came under serious allegations. cnn reported new details of vulgar and abusive behavior. you had descriptions in this piece in "the new york times" about what they called his frat house on the hill. fridge filled with beer, women talking with male lobbyists, talking about which ones had texted them pictures of their genitals. both men and women would talk about strip clubs and whether fo fox news anchors had breast implants. congressman fairrenthold was asd about this walking to his car. listen to this. >> do you deny the latest allegations against you? >> there have been so many, i don't know what all is going on.

>> why not resign right away? >> he said there have been so many allegations, i don't know what all is going on. >> but he didn't -- but he didn't deny anything. he didn't deny it. so that's the chilling part is that he didn't deny anything. >> should a member of congress know what sexual misconduct allegations are being portrayed against them? >> oh, he knows. the question is why is he just retiring and not quitting? why isn't he being pushed out? >> what's the point of him saying he's going to step down eventually but not now. >> it turns the heat down now and he can stick around a little longer. >> you think he's not going to get chased every day on capitol hill. >> this is what tim murphy tried to do. and 48 hours later, tim murphy was out. >> same with conyers. the initial messaging out of conyers' office was he was going to retire in 2018 and he's retiring now. go ahead. >> but in that instance, house

minority leader nancy pelosi -- speaker ryan doesn't like to slit throats. nancy pelosi slit a throat when she needed to. garrett? >> democrats pushed out conyers and al franken. members of their own party were willing to be the ones to cut t the throats if we're going to extend that metaphor. republicans have not moved in the same way to discipline their own membership on this. garrett haake, tim alberta. i'm going to ask robert to stick around. until this week, the most prominent african-american in the white house, inside the west wing resigning. now that omarosa is out, she is hinting she may be ready to tell all about her time there. but as we head to break, not everyone is impressed. >> she says she has a story to tell. i'm sure she'll be selling that story. yeah, she will. i'm fully sure. when it's finally sunday

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quite a story to tell. as the only african-american woman in this white house, as a senior staff and assistant to the president, i have seen things that have made me uncomfortable, that have upset me, that have affected me deeply and emotionally, that has affected my community and my people. and when i can tell my story, it is a profound story that i know the world will want to hear. >> guess who is apparently coming back to the white house today just for the afternoon? omarosa. that's according to the press secretary. even after omarosa resigned or got fired, whatever you want to call it. she's apparently still getting a paycheck. maybe you care about the circumstances surrounding her actual exit. whether she was escorted or tried to get back in or maybe you don't, but you should definitely care the departure of omarosa now leaves one less african-american voice in the west wing. a west wing that did not have many of those voices to begin with.

robert and jonathan are still with us. you have been eager to talk about this. and i want to point out something that one of my colleagues at the white house asked sarah huckabee sanders today. kristen welker had this exchange. >> how many senior staffers here at the white house are african-american? >> we have a really diverse team across the board at the white house. we always want to continue to grow the diversity here. we're going to continue to do that. >> [ inaudible ]? >> i don't have a number directly in front of me. specifically not african-american but i can say we have a very diverse team at the white house. certainly very diverse team in the press office and something that we strive for every day is to add and grow to be more diverse and more representative of the country at large. and we're going to continue to do that. >> i had a question. i don't think i need one for you two. >> how hard can my eyes roll at that response. we're talking african-americans. we're not hard to spot.

especially on a senior staff, hallie. the white house press secretary should know the exact number of african-americans on the senior staff. >> but she does know. she does know but doesn't want to give the right answer because the answer is zero. >> the answer could be, we don't have enough. we'll do a better job. the answer is zero and the president is committed. yet we got a word salad. >> you heard her say grow the diversity. we pulled the numbers. we pulled the research here. of the 22 highest paid people at the white house, so that top salary of $179.900. omarosa on that list was the only african-american. she was the only african-american person, period, on that list. when you look at the president's cabinet, only one member is black. that's ben carson. the surgeon general is black. for high-level positions, that's about it. >> this is not earth shattering. here's why. all throughout the campaign we didn't see people of color

around donald trump. and candidly speaking, there weren't a lot of people of color raising their hands wanting to work for donald trump. >> omarosa baecame his voice an for a lot of folks they said omarosa, really? >> that's not surprising. >> wait, which part is not a surprise. >> do you think this is laying bare now this idea that omarosa was that voice in the west wing? now she's gone. now there's a question about diversity inside the president's administration even more than -- >> let's add to what robert just said. it's not as though the then candidate made it comfortable for african-americans to even look at him as a candidate who would have their interests at heart. keep in mind, i interviewed omarosa when i filled in on msnbc on the weekends for steve kornacki. he had his weekend show. the first weekend after donald trump's first presidential debate. and in that interview, she was the one who said to me, i had to stop looking at donald trump as a presidential candidate and

look at him as a reality tv star who is running for president. and when you think of him that way, your metrics will change. and i've never forgotten that. she was right. but she says something else in that interview that people forget. she said she was a dyed in the wool democrat, that she was a hillary clinton supporter who had hillary clinton tattooed on her arm. and now what are we talking about? the senior most african-american in the trump administration. >> and here's what she said about donald trump. back during the campaign in september of 2016. listen. >> every critic, every detractor will have to bow down to president trump. it's everyone who has ever doubted donald, who ever disagreed, whoever challenged him. it is the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe. >> so she gets an oscar. she gets an oscar. >> and an emmy. >> let's be honest about this.

this is a reality tv star that's playing to the camera. >> let me ask jonathan something because to this point. you have omarosa making comments like that during the campaign, right? you have her now going on tv on "good morning america" this morning and throwing verbal bombs on her way out the door to the white house talking about uncomfortable moments she experienced on behalf of what she describes her community and her people but she wouldn't talk about what those specific moments were. sarah sanders said today she doesn't know what those moments were. >> not surprising for someone that entered the national consciousness as a reality star that she'd try to inject some drama into her exit here. she had some allies on staff. the president was personally fond of her. others there often rolled their eyes. the office in the white house where she was put in charge sort of really lagged and was -- its poor performance is one of the reasons we believe she's heading out the door now. in terms of these uncomfortable moments, i'm not going to say

she didn't experience them. sounds like she's saving them perhaps for a tell-all book. but it should be pointed out that perhaps the most controversial moment of this president's term was his response to the racial attacks, the racial violence in charlottesville and omarosa defended that response in the days afterward in appearances on fox news. she was willing to go to bat for him then. even if perhaps that moment or others made her uncomfortable. quick final thoughts on this topic. >> jonathan is right. she has a book to sell. you got that from the "gma." saturday night live tweeted out an old tweet with omarosa. see how eerily similar then is to now in just a skit. >> she's a reality star. always has been. she's about ratings and making money. she has a story to tell. the question is how dramatic is it? we'll talk about a new line

in the attacks against the integrity of the special counsel probe. some going so far as to question the entire fbi comparing it to russia's kgb. we'll play those jaw-dropping comments next. ♪when sundown pales the sky i want to hide a while behind your smile ah, but i may as well try and catch the wind♪ our mission is to make off-shore wind one of the principle new sources of energy.

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so let's talk about something developing in the conservative political mediasphere. a strategy essentially that seems designed perhaps to discredit any potential findings in the special counsel investigation. i want you to hear what the president of the judicial watch said overnight. >> there was no distinction between the hillary clinton campaign and the department of justice and the fbi and the goal was unified. which was to get donald trump. and the text messages that have come out show that they had some type of insurance policy in case mr. trump won the presidency. this is our fbi. forget about the fbi

investigation into clinton and trump being compromised by these conflicts. i think the fbi has been compromised. forget about shutting down mr. mueller. do we need to shut down the fbi because it was turned into a kgb-type operation? >> you know a lot of people are -- >> msnbc justice and security analyst matt miller is joining robert, jonathan and jonathan are here. let me just repeat the end of that comment there. do we need to shut down the fbi because it was turned into a kgb-type operation by the obama administration. do we? >> obviously, not. this is a virus that's spreading through the republican party. the republican party which in trump's campaign ran as the pro law enforcement candidate. there is this virus now that started with the most extreme elements of the party, judicial watch, your judge jeannines and if you watch the hearing yesterday, it's a mainstream republican talking point now that the fbi, the justice department and especially the

special counsel are out of control. i think there are two goals here. one is to eventually, and the most -- not everyone is at the same place on the spect rum but the extreme ends justify firing bob mueller and the less extreme end to undermine his findings so if he ever comes back and says the profit the united states broke the law, the base of the republican party doesn't believe that conclusion. >> is it within the sphere of reality that there are republicans who are legitimately concerned about the scope of robert mueller's investigation who have real worries about that? >> sure. any special investigator, it's always open ended. you never know where it's going to go. i think yesterday they did a very good job of going on the record as saying, as of today, there's nothing in my scope that thinks we should fire -- he did do that. and it's interesting because you love him or hate him depending on what day of the week when it comes to rod rosenstein. but this white house is very concerned about where robert mueller is going to go, assuming it's true about the tax returns and some of the other things

robert mueller is doing. >> supposedly going after the president's financial records. >> following the money. based on our previous conversation about the president being very sensitive, i'm sure they're very concerned, meaning republicans. >> these text messages exchanged between these two folks, one of whom was demoeted recently off the special counsel's investigation was a flash point for a lot of people in the gop. we saw that over the last week, not even. republicans seem to be taking his firing of peter as some confirmation of wrongdoing. is that how you read it? >> that's what republicans are trying to do. that's what that hearing was all about. every time the republicans asked questions, but we're talking about a larger issue here to matt's point. what they're trying to do, what they tried to do yesterday is with each question to erode the credibility and the legitimacy of the mueller probe. and i think back to the a-block

conversation about russia and the interference and the potential -- i'm not going to use the word collusion -- conspiracy. mueller needs to complete whatever investigation he is doing, and if the president does what republicans seem like they want him to do, and that is to fire mueller, they will solve a short-term political problem while completely pushing the country into a constitutional crisis we haven't seen. >> matt, you know the department of justice. you worked there. you know the folks there. you know people at the fbi. what does this do when there are now calls about their questions raised by some people about their legitimacy. >> so i still talk to people at the justice department. people that are career shalls who state they have been extremely concerned about this for two things. one, it undermines their ability to do their jobs. not just in this case but in a host of other cases. >> because? >> the department of justice needs the public to believe in the integrity of its work. they need witnesses to come forward and juries to believe them when prosecutes.

>> there are some people who now question that. is that reparable? does that get fixed ever? >> look at the damage -- the conservative movement repairabl? or is the damp double. >> aimed at the national media, a long-term project worked on for decades and now destroy the credibility of academia, of scientists. now the justice department. what they believe about science, about colleges and universities. long-term harm to these institutions. >> matt miller, leave it in respect appreciate you coming on-set in the afternoon rather than the morning. thanks. we're going to be right back.

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you saw that there. he loves props. the white house likes to point to this as a campaign promise they can say they've truly fulfilled, when so many have not been. there is still no massive health care plan. certainly ending obamacare. certainly, you know, made progress on taxes but that's not a done deal yet and still doubt whether that will get done and a number of other things the president hasn't fulfilled and this is one he said he can. a lot of regulations wiped out. his team believed, sparking growth, help the economy. other regulations they've taken away contend to the environment. pulls out of the paris climate accord and others, and still others he liked to do, undo part of the legacy of his president sirs. >> making the point about the president's promises kept on some regulations, jonathan is making a face and robert is nodding. i feel you two have different perspectives on this one? >> two things.

every white house likes props. come on. >> i like props. >> second, look, i say this in air quotes. he is a republican, a conservative. conservatives do not like regulation. that's a good thing. we could go back to the base saying i'm delivering on my promise. right? regulations eliminated that were already eliminated. why i was rolling my eyes. >> sorry to call you out. >> hey, i've been fired up all day. >> thank you both for being here. one more break and we'll be right back. where to go, and how to work around your uc. that's how i thought it had to be. but then i talked to my doctor about humira, and learned humira can help get and keep uc under control... when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis.

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thank you all for joining me here as i fill in for nicolle

wallace. she will be back at this desk tomorrow. i will see you tomorrow at my usual time slot at 10:00 a.m. for now, over to "mtp daily" starting now. chuck todd, the rare chuck todd hand over. very nice. nice to talk to the chief. >> ditto, man. good to see you. >> get back to that crazy white house. good luck there. if it's thursday, it's time to face the tax man. republicans are stepping on the gas to drive a tax bill across the finish line. >> congress acts by christmas, people are going to see gains very soon. >> we have to do that, and everybody knows it. >> but could the tax bill wind up being this year's version of obamacare 2010? plus, why so many people are asking, is speaker ryan quitting? >> i'm not. >> finally, neutralizing net neutrality. >> look, the trump administration supports the fcc's effort to roll back burdensome regulations.