trillion, and will slash corporate taxes from 35% to 21%. tax rates for individuals will also go down. the highest rate dropping from 39% to tlen37%. it doubles the standard deduction. the proposed bill would eliminate the obamacare provision that requires most americans to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. now, earlier today the president pushed back against criticism that the kufcuts mean a bigger break for the rich. >> this will be great for jobs, it will be fantastic for the middle income people and for jobs. it will also benefit lots of other things. i mean, if you look at the whole thing, everybody's going to benefit. >> joining me now, jeff bennett. what did it take to get the holdouts on board?

is it i a sure thing? >> start with marco rubio. he said he was a "no." he held out in exchange for a boost in the child tax credit. lawmakers quickly worked to meet his demands. so he got a $300 boost in the child tax credit for working class families so he's now on board. then you have bob corker, the republican from tennessee. he caved without winning any concessions, but said he didn't want to stand in the way of republicans' progress. so with those two yeses, the house is now scheduled to vote on tuesday, the senate a day later on wednesday, potentially, potentially, fulfilling the president's christmas wish of signing this bill into law by the holiday break. president trump, earlier today, aaron, he touted the tax plan while on the south lawn, talking to reporters and he played up a feature in the bill that is designed to give companies breaks on profits earned overseas. take a look. >> as an example, we think $4 trillion will come flowing back into the country. that's money that's overseas,

stuck there for years and years. it was 2.5 trillion, then it was 3.5, it's probably over $4 trillion. this is money that's been stuck there for years and it's going to come pouring back into the country. now, the numbers the president laid out there are debatable, as is the question of what companies might do with the money they get to keep thanks to the tax break. republicans say they'll invest that money in hiring new employees. democrats and independent analysts say there's little proof of that. nonetheless, republicans are hitting the fft forward on this tax plan, one reason for the rush, a republican aide tells me the gop knows it will be much harder for the party to pass things once doug jones, the democrat from alabama, is sworn in, in the senate. and as you know, the party is anxious to have something to show republican voters and donors for having control of the house, the senate, and of course the white house, for the first time in more than a decade. aaron? >> jeff bennett at the white house for us tonight, thank you. the gop has been celebrating the final version of its tax

reform bill as a major victory for both the party and the american people. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell says the plan will, quote, bring real relief to the middle class by taking money out of washington's pocket and putting it into theirs. president trump claims the cuts will foster job growth and higher wages, but according to bloomberg politics, major companies like cisco systems, pfizer, coca-cola, they all say they'll turn over most gains proposed from the corporate tax cuts to their shareholders, undercutting president trump's promise that his plan will create jobs and boost wages for the middle class. now the plan also has seen brutally low approval numbers in recent polling. there's a new quinnipiac poll that shows only 26% of americans approve of the tax plan, while 55% disapprove. for more on who the winners and losers are in this bill, let's bring in our panel now, co-author of political playbook daniel lipman, ethics chair at the pointer institute, indira

lokt ran an. and jay newton small, contributor for "time" magazine. >> daniel, who wins and who loses in this bill? >> so a lot of rich folks, some of trump's friends, they are among the biggest winners. apple, you know, your maker of your iphone, they're going to make a lot of money off this bill. some of the losers include doctors and lawyers, low-income people, middle class families. they'll get a temporary tax cut, but in a years, that tax cut goes away. those corporate tax cuts, they are ended. they are permanent. so i think there will be a push to make those middle-class tax cuts permanent in eight years, but that's not how we see it right now. >> indir a i mentioned this poll that we're seeing from quinnipiac university, it shows that 26% of americans approve of this plan, only 26%. 55% disapprove of it.

there's another meris poll that shows 52% of americans think the bill will mostly hurt them, while only 30% believe it will mostly help them. and there's a new associated press norc poll that indicates 52% of americans think the country is worse off since president trump took office. you take all that information, given all this information about how americans are feeling right now, why push, why pass this bill? >> well, i think daniel started to put his finger on it. it obviously benefits trump, a lot of his donors, a lot of wealthy individuals who have contributed to the republican party and the president is very, very keen to get a big legislative win. one of the things he campaigned on was repeal and replace obamacare. he was not able to do that. paul ryan, mitch mcconnell and president trump all want a big win. and they've dubbed it tax reform. obviously 75% of americans, as you point out, are not convinced that it's reform in a positive sense, but they will be able to push this through, it looks like, before the end of the year, before christmas.

i mean, although in the short-term, we see a doubling of the personal exemption or the exemption for married couples, so this will be good for many taxpayers in the short-term, what we also know is that by 2019, people who make $30,000 or less are going to be paying more taxing than they are today. and by 2025, that basically applies to everybody. so as daniel said, there's the concern about what can they make permanent in all this? but the vast majority, the lion's share of the benefit is really going to upper income people and corporations, from all the independent, non-partisan analysis that we've seen. >> jay, i have to wonder, if it would be wiser for republicans to take a little more time, to work on a better bill that will earn better approval ratings in the polls before they try to present something to the american people. >> absolutely, aaron. there's been a lot of concern about the rush to push this bill through so quickly. the last time we did tax reform on this level was during ronald reagan's era, and that actual took more than a year to draft.

and there were still unintended consequences. the entire savings and loans scandal came from a loophole that was born out of that bill that the drafters never anticipated. so to rush through tax reform in a matter of six weeks, drafting it and getting it through both chambers of commerce, leaves a lot of people very concerned that this is based much more on politics, much more on trying to get a win in before the midterm elections next year and a lot less about what can happen potentially down the road with this policy. >> daniel, both marco rubio and bob corker were critical votes for the gop to win over, in order to get it moving forward. they're now on board. was it just political theater from rubio and corker this week? was that a feigned resistance to the bill, or was that real from them? >> i think they genuinely believe that they should push their republican leaders to get some substantive changes and

they did make some progress on increasing, you know, the child tax credit a few hundred bucks, but at the end of the day, kevin brady and mitch mcconnell and paul ryan, they all promise that this bill would make it so that americans could fill out their tax cuts -- their tax reforms on a postcard, and yet that i made the tax system much more complicated. there are many more loopholes now. they wanted three different brackets for tax cuts and now you have eight brackets. and so this is no postcard that you really can mail to the irs. it's much more complicated than that. >> indira, what does this plan do for republicans going into the 2018 mid terms? >> well, it, again, allows them to go back to their base with the claim that they're giving them a tax break. it allows them to go back to their donors, we know that there were major republican donors who were basically saying, we're not going to take your calls, to congress and the white house, unless you get through this tax

bill. i mean, i think the larger picture, of course, is it going to work in the long run, to simulate the economy in the way that the president and his advisers claim? and what we saw after the reagan tax changes was trickle-down economics doesn't actually work, according to the study. so the whole idea that you give more money to corporations, which, by the way, american corporations are making record profits right now. so it's not exactly as if they are needing more of these tax brea breaks, for that reason. >> more ground to cover with this panel, they'll be back with us later in the hour. thank you all. >> thank you. still ahead, pardon possibility? president trump skirts questions about the future of michael flynn. plus, damage control, the president's son-in-law reportedly seeking out a pr firm to help protect his image as the russia investigation intensifies.

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>> welcome back. new reporting today on the mueller investigation. according to axios, mueller's team has obtained tens of thousands of trump transition e-mails. the news comes as republicans continue to attack the special counsel. >> disgusting, unaccountable bias. and there's no way that could not affect a person's work. >> gop lawmakers blasted the fbi and the justice department earlier this week as they tried to paint mueller as a democrat sympathizer, out to get president trump. d deputy attorney general rod rosenstein fired back,

dismissing the claims. >> have you seen good cause to fire special counsel mueller? >> no, i believe based upon his reputation, his service, his patriotism, and his experience with the department and the fbi, i believe he was an ideal choice for this task. >> the fbi taking another hit on friday with president trump criticizing the agency's role in the russia investigation, once again casting a shadow of doubt over the intelligence community. joining me now is ned price, msnbc contributor and former special assistant to president obama. and richard painter, chief mouse ethics lawyer under george w. bush. gentlemen, thank you for being here. >> thank you. ned, talk to me about this new report coming from axios. what's the significance of the trump transition e-mails here? >> well, aaron, what's been reported so far is that bob mueller's team gained access to a cache of about 10,000 transition e-mails from the gsa. that's the general services administration, a federal government entity. now, the trump lawyers are

crying foul, claiming that bob mueller had absolutely no right to gain access to these e-mails but i think what we're seeing here is just another attack on the mueller investigative team. the trump lawyers are saying that these e-mails could have been privileged. they could have been confidential. these were done on a government server. and bob mueller, apparently went to gsa, using the right channels, obtained the e-mails, and it seems to me that what the trump lawyers are most concerned with are really two things -- discrediting mueller, as i said, and number two, they're very concerned with the fact that bob mueller seems to have had e-mails in his possession when he was questioning top trump transition officials, like jared kushner, like hope hicks, others who were involved in the transition. and mueller was armed with those e-mails. so he may have known answers to the questions he was asking them. and trump lawyers may be quite concerned that the answers that transition officials offered may not have been totally truthful. >> so, richard, in the meantime, these allegations about bias

against trump, is this a good strategy for the president as the investigation continues? >> any sensible republican isn't going to make that allegation. robert mueller is a man of impeccable credentials and he's a republican. he was appointed by a republican deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein, who was appointed by president trump. this is a very professional investigation. there's zero evidence of bias. this is just a bunch of garbage heaped up on fox news and then the congressmen get up there and repeat that. but it's been made very clear by the trump administration itself, including rod rosenstein, including the new director of the fbi, that the fbi is in good shape. the fbi knows what it's doing. robert mueller knows what he's doing. one thing is clear, there was collaboration between some operatives in the trump campaign and the russians. we don't know if that collaboration was legal or illegal. we don't know who has been lying about it. we know a lot of people have

been lying, at least general flynn, george papadopoulos, and a number of people are under investigation for lying, as well as those who have been indicted. bottom line, this investigation needs to go forward. it's critical to our national security. republicans want it to go forward, as well as democrats. yes, there are a few republicans that are making a lot of noise, but i don't think those who want to get re-elected in 2018 are going to be out there and carrying the president's -- furthermore, a lot of people may wonder whether the members of congress themselves have a putin problem, whether some of their campaign contributors are linked to putin. and that needs to be investigated as well. and those who are making the most noise may have the most things to hide on that. >> you mentioned michael flynn here. could the president be secretly signaling to michael flynn that a pardon is still a possibility. and what could that mean for this investigation? >> well, i don't know what he's talking about pardoning someone who is currently cooperating with the fbi. but that sounds like witness tampering to me.

i wouldn't talk that way if i were the president. he's already got himself exposed on the obstruction of justice charge because of his firing of james comey and attempts to fire robert mueller. -- or talking about firing robert mueller. i think talking about pardons in the middle of an investigation, that's not a good idea. it's going to look like he's basically trying to bribe a witness, use a pardon as basically hush money. >> i want to ask you about jared kushner, ned. there are reports he's hiring a pr crisis team. is he panicking? >> well, what's especially interesting about this report, aaron, is the fact that jared kushner already has a press person working for him in the white house. it's quite unusual for a white house senior adviser to have his or her own press attache, but that's exactly what jared kushner has. so for jared to go out and to retain a separate firm to now work for him, certainly could fuel speculation and i think, not unfounded speculation, that they expect something to be

coming. whether that's charges, whether that's something else entirely, they seem to be gearing up for the next round, for which they're calling in reinforcements, which i think is an interesting move. >> certainly refocuses attention on him at this point too. thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> thank you. still ahead, a familiar face taking on a new role in the fight against sexual harassment. anita hill will head up a commission in hollywood, as more big names face accusations. the ford year-end sales event is in full swing. ( ♪ ) you are going to be a big surprise. (whining) aww, i see a big puppy. i see a b-i-i-g pu-u-ppy. hey greg! that's ford, america's best-selling brand. now get exclusive holiday offers,

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rges the list of pourchl people accused of -- powerful people accused of sexual misconduct is very long and growing by the day. nevada congressman rubin cuen announced he will not seek re-election after an investigation was opened into sexual allegations against him. the congressman denies the claims. blake farenthold also decided not to seek re-election, after it was revealed that tax dollars were used to settle a claim of sexual harassment against him. also, kansas democrat andrea ramsey who was running for a house seat in 2018 has dropped out of the race after she was hit with a sexual harassment

allegation from a male subordinate, she denies it. interior secretary ryan zinke has fired four staffers after one-third of the department reported being harassed. and now anita hill has been chosen to lead a commission looking into sexual harassment in the entertainment business. hill testified at the 1991 confirmation hearing for supreme court justice clarence thomas, that he sexually harassed her. thomas denied it. now, in response to the commission, hill says in part, i've been at this work for 26 years. this moment presents us with an unprecedented opportunity to make real change. and then there's president trump, who has his own list of accusers, three of whom sat down with megyn kelly earlier this week. >> all of a sudden, he's all over me, kissing and groping and groping and kissing. when his hands started going up my skirt, i'm not a small person, i managed to wiggle out. >> looking me over like i was

just a piece of meat. i was not a human being, i didn't have a brain, i didn't have a personality. i was just simply there for his pleasure. >> with me now, former defense and pros cecuting attorney kare desoto. let's start with this commission chaired by anita hill, it's a power broker's list of the who's who in hollywood, in the entertainment industry. what do they need to do to bring about some real substantive change? >> wow, do we have an hour, aaron? i think the most important part is powerful women coming together, nothing but good can come out of this. but i think one of the spots that really needs some work is to protect women, and men, and also support them. have some kind of a way for them to have their voices heard. so this is an excellent idea, i've said for a long time it would be nice to have a 1-800 number, i'm sure they're going to make recommendations and they need to clean up the industry.

so it's great that this information is out there. it's great that sexual harassment and sexual assault is finally taking the forefront in a serious way and that now we have powerful women who have resources who can make a dent in this very serious issue. >> as we talk about this related to president trump, is there any real way legally that sexual harassment allegations against the president could actually lead to impeachment? >> okay, let me put my professor had the on for just a second. people are very polarized on this issue. we know that trump is a very divisive word at this point, very divisive president. high crimes and misdemeanors in the constitution, when you're talking about a high crime, you're talking about criminal activity, right? misdemeanors, which can be set by the house and the senate, there has to be some kind of causal connection to his office, and conduct in office. if it's something that is not criminal, a misdemeanor, groping that happened ten years ago. so can you impeach somebody?

certainly you can impeach anybody on anything. you can try and indict and then you can try and get it to the senate, but we know that the house and the senate is not going to be a place that that's going to happen. could that happen in 2018? that's probably doubtful. why? because 28 seats are democratic seats. 8 are republicans. so is that going to change in 2018 and would you have an impeachable offense, or would it be similar to what happened with bill clinton, that it's going to be down partisan lines and that's never going to happen. so there's legal, there's political, and there's public here. >> well, let's talk again about public. we step away from the presidency and look at the idea of charges in some of these cases. we've heard accusations in lots of different places over the last couple of months now, but that's as far as it seems to have gone. >> right. >> any possibility for charges? >> well, yes, after the bill cosby case, we had two states, california and new york, who took the statute of limitations off of rape. so we are seeing a reckoning

here that, in at least the criminal context, that the statute of limitations is being longer in many, many states. and because of that, prosecutors will have the ability to bring cases. however, having been an attorney who has tried rape cases, i can tell you that even when they're timely, they're very, very difficult cases. so the idea of having cases that are ten or 20 or 30 years old, you're really having a hard task as a prosecutor. very difficult cases. >> so if criminal charges don't happen or can't happen in some of these cases, what about the possibility of civil charges? do you expect we'll see more of that with the cases that are already out there? >> unfortunately, one of the problems with the civil cases is that we have confidentiality agreements and gag orders that keep women, if they do take a settlement, through mediation or arbitration, or even binding arbitration, that keep them silent. and unfortunately, that's a public safety issue, because even in cases of sexual harassment, you're having a very

difficult time of voicing or letting other people know that there may be some kind of danger or that it could happen to other women and also, we've seen lots of cases with men as well. >> so even if there aren't charges, there is great value in being able to step out of the shadows, to pull people who are committing these assaults, to drag them out of the shadows? >> yeah. and even in cases where it is criminal contact or assault, in the korcorporation context, tho women are being silenced, we're going to give you money, even on the hill, and you're going to sign this agreement that says you're not going to talk about it. when you're silenced, you can't warn anyone about it, or you could face civil penalties yourself. liquidated damages, you have to give the money back. so gagging women and having confidential agreement system going to keep them from coming forward. it's one of the reasons why this behavior continues and continues and continues. >> karen, thank you for your perspective. >> thank you.

still ahead, the tax plan push. inside a massive tax bill that could be on the president's desk before the holidays. and reports that the president banned the cdc from using seven words and phrases. more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest. even the smallest things

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i'm aaron gilchrist at msnbc headquarters in new york. here are some of the stories we're watching on msnbc. we're 12 days into the epic wildfires ripping across

southern california. santa ana winds of more than 30 miles an hour strengthening the thomas fire in santa barbara and ventura counties. the thomas fire has destroyed more than 1,000 structures, including about 750 homes. "the washington post" reports that the trump administration is prohibiting the centers for disease control from using the following seven words and phrases in budget documents. vulnerable, entitlement, diversity, transgender, fetus, evidence-based, and science-based. the department of health and human services says that the story is a mischaracterization. now that the republican tax plan looks likely to sail through congress, republicans are going all in, placing a big bet on their prospects for next year's mid terms. "the washington post" writes, assuming no last minute itches, the tax bill as signed by president trump would represent a significant legislative achievement for a party that has struggled all year to convert power to productivity.

as a morale boost to beleaguered politicians, its value should not be underestimated. whether it will translate politically as they hope, is a far different question. >> adrian elrod, former director of strategic communications for hillary for commerk. and charlie sykes, msnbc contributor and author of "how the right lost its mind." charlie, will this bet pay off for voters? >> i think likely not. in part by the way they are enacting it. rushing through an 1,100-page bill that was released friday and putting it on the president's desk in the next week, what could possibly go wrong? you know, what i find amazing about this, nobody like john mccain or jeff flake or bob corker stood up is said, could we hit the pause button to at least figure out what's in there? are there unintended consequences? are there potential land mines in all of this? this is what republicans do. they cut taxes, but there's something about the rush here

that just strikes me as potential for significant political downside. >> adrian, i want you to hear how president trump cast the tax plan earlier today. listen to this. >> this is gonna be one of the great christmas gifts to middle income people. the democrats have the sound bite, the standard sound bite before they even know what the bill is all about. they talk about for the wealthy. this is going to be one of the great gifts to the middle income people of this country that they've ever gotten for christmas. >> so adrian, is the president right about democrats here? are they using a tired message to try to rebut this pran plan? >> no, he's absolutely wrong. charlie is the one who is right here. this bill was written late into the night, in secret, the process that republicans undertook to get this bill to the current form that it's in, was so secretive, not transparent at all. what we do know is that this bill lowers the corporate tax

rate, while it raises taxes on the middle class. i think americans want actual tax reform. this bill does not do that. it does not simplify the process at all. a lot of us are still trying to understand exactly what it does, but president trump is very, i guess i'll give him, you know, an accolade for going out and creating sound bites that sound good, but that are absolutely not true. i think republicans are going to have to figure out how to answer for this going into the mid terms in 2018. >> charlie, with the republicans focusing on the 2018 mid terms, i want to turn to what we saw in alabama and the turn-out among black voters there. take a look at this from "the new york times". quote, obviously a turn-out surge in well educated democratic areas and a tepid turn-out in white, working-class areas, will hurt republicans just about anywhere as it did in alabama. it also poses a particular danger to the gop in a number of carefully gerrymandered

districts where republicans count on rural white voters to cancel out well educated, liberal, democratic enclaves. so are we on the verge of a wave for democrats next year? >> it certainly looks like it. that's why the tax bill, i think, is unlikely to solve all their problems. the republicans i've talked to this week, sort of oscillated back and forth between being relieved and panicked. relieved they don't have to deal with a senator roy moore and all of that toxic baggage. but also panic by looking at the numbers, including the african american turn-out, which was at 2008 barack obama levels. if the democratic base is excited, it is engaged at this level, and there continues to be a president at the top of the ticket, he's not on the ticket, of course, but who is polling in the low 30 percentage points. this is not a good environment for republicans going into this, into 2018. >> adrian, we talked about this

idea of a message of economics versus a message of identity politics, how do democrats capitalize on an unpopular president? will their message be centered on the economy or more on identity politics? >> well, i think it's going to be a little bit of both. i think that's what we've seen happen this year. not only was it extremely significant that democrats carried alabama, carried a statewide seat in alabama for the first time in 25 years, and by the way, 25 years ago, that was richard shelby, who had to change parties, from being a democrat to a republican, in order to politically survive in the state. so tuesday's night was a significant win for democrats. but we've also flipped 33 and counting down-ballot states, like oklahoma, new hampshire, in areas that trump even carried significantly in 2016. so, look, i think that obviously the economy is a huge factor going into 2018, but i think people want a president that they can be proud of, and they're not proud of this

current president, even though president trump, of course, is not going to be on the ballot in 2018, he's dragging down the ticket and we're seeing it happen a lot in some of these special elections. >> charlie, "the washington post" reporting that the white house is planning a full-throttle campaign to plunge the president into the midterm elections. do republicans want president trump on the campaign trail in 2018? >> well, in some areas, they will. but i think he's going to be an anchor on this political party. look, when you talk about the economy, the economy right now, think about it, with the unemployment rate, with the stock market, why is the president not at 60% approval rating? the fact that his ratings are so low when the economy, on paper, is this strong, should be an indication that he's not going to be an asset in 2018 to republicans. >> all right, we'll leave it there. adrian, charlie, thanks for your time. >> thank you. you're fired, depends on who you believe.

omarosa out of president trump's inner circle, how that is reviving the conversation about diversity within the white house.

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at hud, i don't think you'll find any lack of diversity. and we just have to stay focused on what the issues are. >> hud secretary ben carson speaking on diversity in the trump administration, or lack thereof, once again in focus an omarosa manigault announced she was leaving her post and eluded to racial tensions behind the scenes. >> as the only african american woman in this white house, as a senior staff and assistant to the president, i have seen things that have made me uncomfortable, that have upset me, that have affected me deeply, and emotionally. that has affected my community and my people. >> back with us now, daniel lipman, indira loktra nan, and jane newton small.

o omarosa was one of three black employees for the president, ben carson and the surgeon general too. take a listen to what she said about that. >> i worked with 30 assistants to the president. and i would look to my left and look to my right and the only people who were there were folks that didn't look like you and i. there was a lack of diversity that i will acknowledge and at times it was very lonely. >> so, jay, outside of omarosa's take, is there a lack of diversity in this white house? >> well, the numbers don't lie. and out of the top 22 most highly paid west wing officials, only six are women, and only one, omarosa, was actually a minority. so there is -- with her departure, they have no minorities in the top 22 paid officials within the white house. so certainly there's an apparent lack of diversity out there. >> indira, this question was put

to the press secretary and we want you to hear how she stwrd the question about omarosa's exit and diversity within the white house. >> with omarosa leaving, how many senior staffers here at the white house are african american? >> look, we have a really diverse team across the board at the white house. we always want to continue to grow the diversity here. we're going to continue to do that and continue to work hard. >> so what efforts has president trump made to try to ensure that there's a diverse administration in this white house? >> well, as jay says, the be s numbers don't lie. so i would expect any white house press secretary to say, of course we care about diversity, of course we're doing our best to improve that. but look around at the faces. look at the people in prominent positions. as you point out, the hud secretary, ben carson, who we saw earlier, is the only cabinet-level official who is african american. the surgeon general is not specifically in the cabinet, but

of course prominent. you have a few, a sprinkling of other people. it's troubling to me that another person from a minority community, dina powell, who is a senior adviser to the president, who is arab, she's an egyptian captain coptic christian with arabic language skills. she's going to be leaving early on in 2018. the biggest lack seems to be with the african american community, and part of why that's so troubling is because so many things that the president has said, that have been offensive to that community specifically, and i'm talking about not only what was said after charlottesville, that both sides had a role in that, but also the fights he's picked with gold star widow and mother of the man who was killed in niger. so it's vr troubling. you would hope there's someone there in the white house to talk to him and talk him down from those sorts of confrontations. >> daniel, i want to move away from the diversity question just a little bit and talk about the work that's happening in the white house.

omarosa, we know, served as the communications director for the office of public liaison. she made $179,700 in that role. did she actually accomplish anything? >> there's not much evidence of that. i don't know what the american taxpayers got from all that money. she got in fights with reporters, her colleagues. he was biting, according to a person i talked to, who used to work at the white house. you know, the most prominent thing she did was, she kind of had a public meltdown in front of a live audience, talking about the trump administration, when she was getting shouted down. so it didn't seem like a former reality tv star is the best person to put in the white house at a senior role. so it will be interesting to see who they pick to replace her and whether they are more qualified than her. >> jay, i think indira mentioned

it, omarosa is part of a long list of staffers to leave this administration in the first year. 11 departures so far within the first year of this administration. what do you take away from that? what does this say about the state of thiss so far. what does this say? >> a lot of turmoil and clear in working with donald trump is not something that is the steadiest and easiest thing in the planet. particularly as a praes aex pre secretary and the have to contend with the president's tweets, very hard to defend, and so i think that you see a lot of turnover because of that, and just to get back to the diversity question. it's interesting that you have this white house has according to some studies diversity as richard nixon's white house, about 4%. compared to 14% in barack obama's administration and 10% in george w. bush's administration. minorities in the west wing serving in the west wing. so the president has said, or sarah sanders said the president is reaching out to senator tim

scott, an african-american and ben cars ton ask advice who he could bring into the administration who might be more diverse. the turnover, all of these vacancies will give him the opportunity to do so. thus far most of the people serving with the president remain and continue to be mostly white talking about the white house, within the administration, how effective is it orb can it be with all of these openings? >> look, we have seen over the course of the year that the president obviously gets some enjoyment out of operating in a state of chaos. that seems to be the sort of standard operating procedure, and the fact that you would have in a new white house communications director and have him gone and in 10 or 11 days, talking scaramucci, of course, and so many cases like that, high-profi high-profiled, doesn't seem to upset the president.

i would think when you want a steady hand in policy and steady vision is what john kelly was supposed to bring as the new chief of staff, but we haven't seen a difference in that. there's still a lot of chaos in the personnel. >> thanks to our panel. appreciate you. >> thank you. >> thanks. still ahead, this question -- are we alone? it's a question a secret pentagon program was investigating. details on the multimillion dollar operation focused on ufos. at planters we know how to throw a remarkable holiday party.

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the air force form the project bluebook for three basic purposes. first to determine that there was no threat to our national security, second, to preclude technological surprise, and third and probably most important to prove the existence of ufos. >> that was a clip from the late 1970 tv show "project bluebook" based on afternoon air force program that invest guestedins t a program that produced documents describes sightings of aircraft that seemed to move at very high velocities with no visible signs of pro pulse or hovered with no apparent means of lift. joining me, one of the

co-writers of that article and an author. appreciate you being here to talk to us about this. what more can you tell us about this pentagon program? what did it find? >> well, the program has been in operation since 2007 and secret until now and studied about 10 # to 12 different instance as year about military sightings, they can't explain, they move incredibly fast. hover, take a sudden right angle turn. incredible velocities we could never stand if a living creature was in there. technology that we don't have on this planet and that's what we're stuck with. >> a sizable budget. what did they find? >> i mean, basically what they did with the budget a lot of different research to try to document what was going on, try to understand the physics behind how the objects, you know, move around.

and then to just keep records of a what we were observing but haven't been able to find what they are, where they're from orring in like that. it's a process of investigating instances and ftrying to collec enough date ta. >> what was the logic? >> senator harry reid was behind the funding. senator's stevens in 2007 and 2009 able to get funding appropriated for the program. ended up being about $2 milli2 million. >> kept a secret? >> it was kept a secret. >> why? >> nobody knew the program existed and in fact lots of people in the pentagon don't even know it existed. kept quiet because the information is very, very sensitive, and they felt that, also other countries that might be working on the same thing. there's a sense of wanting to keep this information to ourselves, but a lot of people

believe that it should be made public. that's what we're dealing with right now. >> a lot of people out there who say that this might be a waste of taxpayer dollars, searching for ufos and investigating aliens. what have people you talked to said about that? >> everybody has different opinions. it's not about investigating aliens. just investigating a documented phenomenon, observed, seen on videos, trying to figure out what it is. nobody's claiming they're aliens or extraterrestrials. something that could be a threat, it's a technological craft we don't understand and doan understand why it does what it does. a reason to study it. >> i read your article. raises questions and answers a few others and raises more questions. >> it wayses a lot of questions and there's a lot we don't know. that's the whole point. >> indeed. appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. and that wraps it up for us here this hour at msnbc.

i'm aaron gilchrist. stay with us for breaking news. "all in" with chris hayes is next. make is a great saturday, everybody. tonight on "all in." >> would you consider a pardon for michael flynn? >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. >> the president dangles a pardon and takes aim at the fbi. >> we're going to rebuild the fbi. it's a shame what's happened with the fbi. >> tonight, president trump and the plot to stop mueller. then -- >> he said very nice things about what i've done for this country in terms of the economy. >> malcolm nance on the shared talking points of trump and putin. >> it's pretty clear -- >> you're the puppet. >> plus, quality control. >> have you ever tried a jury trial? >> i have no. >> civil? >> no. >> criminal? >>