in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. tonight -- will the president tell bob mueller you're fired? just another quiet night in washington. this is "kasie dc." welcome to "kasie dc." we're live every sunday from washington, 7:00 to 9:00 eastern. we'll hear from the president who says he is not planning to fire robert mueller. plus, my exclusive interview with senator tim kaine on how democrats can expand on their wins in alabama and virginia. and dnc deputy keith ellison on whether his party, which has

been a punching bag for some, has been finally gaining some momentum. plus, carly fiorina on the way forward for her party. and later, congressman carlos curbelo joins us to talk about whether there will be a fix for d.r.e.a.m.ers before the clock strikes midnight new year's eve. amid rumor and intense pressure, the president says he is not considering firing robert mueller. here he is responding late tonight to reporters over the roar of helicopter blades. >> [ inaudible ]. >> no, i'm not. what else? what, are you surprised? >> a trump transition lawyer is accusing the special counsel of illegally obtaining e-mails from the trump transition team. as attacks on mueller appear to be growing in number and intensity. axios first reported mueller obtained tens of thousands of e-mails from the general

services administration. including e-mails from jared kushner. and that he was using them as the basis to question witnesses and come up with new leads. returning from camp david a short time ago, president trump spoke about that new controversy. >> it's not looking good. it's quite sad to see that. so my people were very upset about it. i can't imagine there's anything on them, frankly, because, as we said, there's no collusion. there's no collusion whatsoever. but a lot of lawyers thought that was pretty sad. >> cory langhover, general transition to the trump team, fired off a letter saying some of the e-mails were privileged and should not have been turned over to mueller. in a rare statement from the mueller team, a spokesperson said when we've obtained e-mails in the course of our ongoing criminal investigation, we've either secured the account owner's consent or gone through the appropriate criminal process. the stepped up criticism of mueller has fueled speculation trump could fire the special

counsel. which one of the most powerful republicans in the senate today warned against. >> i have confidence in director mueller. i would just think he would be concerned about the appearance of conflicts of interest that would undermine the integrity of the investigation. >> it appears some of the president's allies in the congress are starting to lay the groundwork for him to fire robert mueller. what would that mean if the president fired the special counsel? >> i read that the president's own lawyer says that's not going to happen. i think that would be a mistake myself. >> white house special counsel ty cobb told nbc news, as the white house has repeatedly and emphatically says for months, there is no consideration about replacing the special counsel with whom the white house has fully cooperated in order to permit a thorough and prompt conclusion. joining me tonight to talk about all of this, "new york times" reporter covering congress and msnbc reporter yanish. msnbc political analyst ashley parker. former senior adviser to the

bush cheney campaign and msnbc political analyst robert traynham and reporter for politico, rachel bade. also army veteran and ceo of the robin hood foundation, wes moore. thank you all for being here to talk about what's been an increasingly it seems stressful period of questions over just what the president is going to do around robert mueller. ashley, you spent a lot of time withior team at the post reporting on this. he was pretty emphatic in saying i'm not thinking about doing that. does that line up with what you're reporting? where is all this chatter coming from? >> a couple of things struck me. he was emphatic about it. our understanding is he is not -- he's not currently planning on firing robert mueller. and this in part is because ty cobb, one of his lawyers, has reassured him this probe will be over by the end of the year. ty cobb originally says it would be over by thanksgiving.

obviously that didn't happen. if it doesn't wrap up by the end of the year, we may see the president change his tune or grow more angry. he turned to the press and said, what, are you surprised? i think some were surprised because we've heard a number of things out of this white house going back and forth on his feelings toward robert mueller and rod rosenstein at doj. >> it seems like there has been this political priming, raising of questions about robert mueller and his impartiality. is that productive for republicans? >> it's not productive for republicans. usually when the president wants you to twist in the wind a la jeff sessions or rex tillerson he'll say, we'll see. are you going to fire rex tillerson? we'll see. what we heard was the president speaking delairatively as she just mentioned saying he's not going to get fired. to your question, this is a distraction but i think most americans know that robert mueller is a consummate professional. he's an apolitical person. he is someone that puts the law first and puts his feelings or

political persuasion second. and i think most people have confidence he'll get to the bottom of this one way or the other. >> he makes a pretty good point about -- >> i think as a reporter, though, if the probe is wrapped up by the end of the year, that's in a couple weeks. the idea that president trump could not start turning on robert mueller if he starts indicting people related to him or -- which is half the people in the white house. you have his son-in-law. his children are connected to all these things. there's this idea that he wants it to be over soon and he wants it to be very focused only on this one thing. but all the sources that tell me when you have a special counsel, that investigation can go into all sorts of things. financial dealings, your kids. so there's this idea that it's way too early to say defin toughly that donald trump is going to do anything regarding this investigation. >> that's what he said was his red line going into financial detailing. >> exactly. he feels that if the scope of the probe is quite narrow and sticks to the question of collusion, that's acceptable. one of the red lines were the

financial dealings but one thing we know is that a special counsel often has very wide range. if you look at what the people have been indicted for so far, it hasn't necessarily been at least take paul manafort. it wasn't anything having to do with the campaign. he went into manafort's business dealings well before the trump campaign. >> what is your sense -- i feel like there was a point where members of congress were very much behind mueller and kept saying we just want this -- we want him to get to the truth. leave him alone to figure this out and dispense with it. do you think they're in the same place? >> i think that's beginning to fray. you look at the president today saying i'm not trying to fire robert mueller. i'm not make anything moves in that direction. what he's doing is he's letting his allies on capitol hill do the attacking for him. so that discredits the investigation. i think it was just yesterday i saw jim jordan on tv saying that they were potentially going to be subpoenaing top fbi officials and bringing them to congress to

question them about political motivation and these texts we've been hearing about for a long time. but i think you really need to watch the leadership because you might have a bunch of trump loyalists in the congress who want to go after this investigation. but unless you have someone like speaker paul ryan and mitch mcconnell giving them the green light on actually subpoenaing people or holding them in contempt of congress, you'll see republicans potentially butt heads on how to handle this. >> just jumping off rachel's point. no, he's not currently planning or trying to fire bob mueller. what he is doing and what his team is doing n what we're seeing republicans on capitol hill do is he's affirmatively trying to undermine the credible thift probe to question it, to discredit it. and he now has some ammunition. there's stuff that's come out that's made his comments this is rigged feel like they have a little more truth to them. >> and like he's setting up for that to be the next turn of this campaign. >> yeah. i don't see it. look.

every president wants a special prosecutor to go in. you saw this with ronald reagan and bill clinton and richard nixon. ironically, the special prosecutor back in 1990s was going after whitewater and they found monica lewinsky. that's number one. number two, what i find is you have solid republicans, john cornyn a few moments ago, mitch mcconnell, paul ryan and others, lindsey graham others and rod rosenstein earlier this week saying if, in fact, the president was to fire robert mueller, that is the red line. i don't think the president is going to do it. >> those same people are the same people president trump never listens to. the same people that always does one thing and he says something different. alabama is a case of the republican leadership saying one thing and the president saying something different. i don't think that republicans have shown there's going to be this red line that they're really going to stick to. >> with all due respect, i think the congress has the upper hand this to and it's called impeachment. >> i was talking to someone the other day, just friday, and this is somebody who is very close with leadership who is -- was one of those people that says we

need to leave bob muell aerks lone. we can't touch this investigation. this republican was telling me, i wouldn't be surprised if in the next few weeks we see people going after sessions, actually. because maybe they feel they can't go after robert mueller because it will look very political that we're trying to get rid of the russia probe. >> it would. >> yes, correct. but they could potentially go after sessions because he has recused himself from all of this. so, really, he's attorney general and he's not overseeing any of this. and they try to knock him out, put a new person in and that person -- >> do you think congress would go along with that? >> i think there are some republicans who would. >> you i think so, too. >> robert? >> i think it depends on what congressional republicans are. a lot of -- this is their former colleague. a lot of congressional republicans think jeff sessions got the raw end of the stick. they think he's the only one in the justice department with the exception of rod rosenstein that knows what he's doing over there. so i'm not sure a lot of republicans would want him to leave right now.

>> okay. so it looks like -- and this has been a great discussion, but i want to quickly mention before we go to break. there were some other comments tonight from president trump. and it looks like senator john mccain won't be in washington for the tax reform vote that's slated for next week. just before the president headed into the white house from marine one he spoke about his conversation with the senator's wife cindy mccain. >> i wished her well. i wished john well. they've headed back. but i understand he'll come, if we ever needed his vote, which hopefully we won't. but the word is that john will come back if we need his vote. and it's too bad. it's a tough -- he's going through a very tough time. no question about it. >> senator mccain's daughter meghan tweeted earlier today this saying thank you to everyone for their kind words about her father. he is battling brain cancer, glioblastoma. mccain is planning to spend the holidays with his family in

arizona. at this point it doesn't seem as though they need john mccain's vote for tax reform next week but at the same time, this discussion of this has been kind of consuming capitol hill. >> yeah, i think it's one of those things where republicans have such a very, very slight lead -- slight majority that i think the president and everyone is hoping they don't have to call john mccain out of his hospital bed to come vote on the tax bill. it seems they have enough votes to do this without john mccain but i think everyone on the hill when he's walking around now you see him as someone that i think is looking very courageous and wanting to do as much as he can for his party. he's also someone who was battling a really hard disease and needs to rest. >> it seems like everyone is sort of, you know, they are happy that there's a contingency plan here but nobody really wants to have to use it. >> interesting. the first reaction i had from hearing the president's comments there was, senator mccain must really be having a hard time right now. we've all been talking to sources and they say it was a long weekend.

he's got to go home and rest. but the president and john mccain have always sort of butted heads. and if the president is saying something nice about him, that, frankly, worries me, right? i think on tax reform, absolutely, they have the votes on this. it sounds like they seem pretty confident. and -- but if they bring john mccain back, that would be a tell-tale sign. >> and our hopes and prayers are, of course, with john mccain and his family tonight and through this holiday season. but we are just getting started here on "kasie dc." just ahead my exclusive with senator tim kaine and why he hopes shaming the president into resigning are, quote, unrealistic. as we go to break, john kennedy says, what? tax reform edition. we'll dig into that, next. >> our folks, every now and then, sort of like a free range chicken. they just move on off on their own. obviously, you'd rather have 52 votes than 51 because you can

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i took this job to improve people's lives, to pass the principles and policies that i've spent my adult life working on. so, yeah, this is one of those big issues. i fundamentally believe that tax

reform is a secret to faster economic growth. >> so does that mean if you can't do this, that you don't want to be speaker of the house. >> i'm not trying to say that. you're trying to put words in my mouth. that would be making news if you did that. >> looks like speaker ryan is going to get what he wished for. we're going to talk about tax reform. and it's really the moment that ryan has been waiting for his whole career. and it's also the victory that president trump has wanted since he was sworn into office. on tuesday, it is likely this unlikely coalition will actually get it done. despite flashes of defiance from east coast republicans, west coast republicans, marco rubio and bob corker, it does look like the president is going to get his very first major legislative victory, and the nation will get a rewritten tax code. the question on the eve of its passage, is it good for republicans, as they say it is? >> the corporate tax rate in our country is -- was way too high. do i think they could have done

better for the middle class? i do. do i think they could have done better for the working poor? i mean, rubio tried to get something. he made some progress. but they could have increased the rates for big business. it wouldn't have mattered. >> it just shocks me still that tre very conservatives i helped get elected in 2010. the fiscal hawks who came to washington to say we'll not spend one dime more than the american people can afford have just signed off on a tax increase on those very same americans. >> wes moore, you worked so much on these issues. what is your evaluation of this republican tax reform plan and whether or not it's actually going to help americans who are working hard to file a simpler tax reform and keep more of their own money? >> the truth is even if you feel there needs to be some form of tax reform and tax support for the most vulnerable and for the middle class, this bill is not it. really what this bill is, this bill is giving significant

support to many corporations who, by the way, are sitting with over $2 trillion in cash -- available cash on balance sheets right now and giving them a significant break on what's going to happen for the families that this was actually hoping to impact. this bill has a potential of being catastrophic. i don't use that word in any form of hyperbole. 13 million people will potentially be knocked off health insurance. we're talking about the fact this will set up a bigger and broader conversation where as we are going to watch increasing deficits, as we're going to watch deficits skyrocket, we now know that the next chapter of this well-trotted out book is that now we're going to start attacking social services, welfare, medicare, medicaid. questioning the further extension of c.h.i.p. which will knock hundreds of thousands of children off health care. even if you believed we need

someday form of tax relief, this bill is not what people are looking for if you are worried about the most vulnerable in our country. >> robert, republicans have sold this as something that they absolutely have to do that is going to save them essentially. it's going to save their skins in the midterm elections. it also strikes me that they're caught between a lot of the people that vote forward republicans in 2016 and for the big donors that support them. is wes right? is this bill bad for these poor average americans? >> there's two conversations going on. is it good policy or politics? good policy, i agree with governor steel. this adds $1.5 trillion to the debt. if you are a fiscal conservative, such as i am, that gives you pause because for the last, at least for the last 23 years being here in washington, d.c., i've always been for lower deficits or no deficits. conservatives are on record as saying that. i'm saying that. is it good politics? of course it is. the reason why is because as you just mentioned, the president needs a big win.

there was a significant loss with obamacare not once, not twice but three times. a significant loss on some other things the president came to washington from. this is a political win. particularly in the states the president flipped last year, pennsylvania, ohio and michigan, will they buy it? i don't know. >> rachel, do you see parallels? i'm having a hard time not comparing this to when democrats passed health reform. this was something they did on a partisan basis, essentially over the objections of the polls. right now this tax reform bill is not polling particularly well hoping this was going to be something that was going to deliver for them. and then they paid for it electorally for several cycles. >> yeah, i think the republicans in congress took this -- made this calculation that if they don't pass something and have no major legislative wins, that that's going to be even worse for them next midterm election than it is now. i think it's interesting that democrats, you know, they

have -- they have had a problem trying to fight this. they were very successful in stalling obamacare repeal, right? they effectively, the liberal base got fired up and stopped the obamacare from going through. we did not see the same effort with tax reform. that's why this is going to pass this week. and one of the reasons is tax reform is so complicated. it's hard to message and just so as republicans are having trouble messaging it to the base that this is -- and to the americans that this is good for them and this is what they should want, democrats are similarly having trouble fighting this because it's very confusing to people. >> wes moore, what should democratic leaders have done differently to fight this? >> i have a difficult time understanding how passing something unpopular is constituted as a win. i think as people continue to understand and really dig into what this bill and what is constituted inside of this bill, i mean, we're talking about everything from the work opportunity tax credit. this is a tax credit that allows

businesses to benefit and offers incentives for benefits for businesses to hire veterans. we're talking about any incentive for the most vulnerable in our society which, by the way, is really the population that had a significant increase that we saw in 2016. as people will get a better and fuller understanding of what is contained inside this bill, i cannot see how an unpopular bill becomes more popular. >> and is your take that you think at the end of the day, republicans will pay for passing this? it does strike me if they don't, they have nowhere to go. nothing to sell. >> i think that there was an entire year to pull together a platform and a process to pull together a strong tax bill that actually would address the core challenges that a real tax bill could have taken care of. the fact that there was a republican president, a republican senate and a republican house, there was a natural belief that a tax bill,

a popular tax bill, a tax bill that really did fundamentally address the discrepancies and disparities that existed within the economic framework of our country would be addressed. i think the truth is that when people understand what this tax bill does and that it actually increases the level of disparity and puts more pressure on the most vulnerable, i think that politically it's going to be a very difficult thing for people to sell and, frankly, it's going to be something that the democrats will have a real platform to be able to run against in -- when you have a unified legislative and executive branch. and this was the best thing that could have been brought to the table. >> it looks like we're about to find out. wes moore, thank you for taking the time to join us tonight. i really appreciate it. >> thank you so much. still to come on "kasie dc," my interview with tim kaine. and then we'll be joined by tom colicchio as some of them

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welcome back. for years, political analysts have salivated over the days when southern states would turn purple. who would have guessed it's alabama that would put a democrat in the senate first. now the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows democrats with an historic advantage not seen since 2008. i talked with former vice presidential candidate tim kaine about the stunning win from a man he's known for years, doug jones, and what democrats should take away from that race as they try to build momentum for 2018. let's start with the news out of alabama this past week. doug jones the democrat unexpectedly winning. you were a very early supporter of doug jones. >> i've known doug since maybe 2003. when he was the -- first made the nominee, i stood up in a

ca caucus lunch and said doug jones has been nominated. i told my caucus mates, even if it's an uphill climb, doug jones is an american hero and the type of person we'd want to run as a democrat and we should support as a democrat. his civil rights background is so powerful. when people got to know the story in the caucus, they were like, absolutely. and then the rest is history. we're excited to have him. what do you think he'll bring to the democratic caucus. your caucus has been leaning to the left and has a lot of progressives who are very loud. >> we have the big ten. we go blue dog to super progressive and tolerate everybody, and that's good. i think the thing that doug brings is first, the u.s. attorney background means on judiciary type issues, judges, criminal justice reform, he's had a great track record. also temperament. civility. the southern thing. you can disagree strongly with somebody but you'll do it with a sense of class and civility and

i think he just is going to bring a real good dynamic into the caucus. >> you went through the crucible of 2016 in a personal way, more personally than a lot of people here. what did you learn from that experience that you think your party needs to make sure they don't forget going forward? >> well, i think, and i would add to it, we've had a lot of success in virginia. we won ten state wides in a row and three presidentials in a row in a state that was redder than red when i got into politics in 2001. there's some basic lessons we do in virginia that i relearned in 2016. make the campaign about bread and butter. jobs, education, health care. really bread and butter stuff, not fringy stuff. >> what's fringy stuff to you? >> thus governors race in virginia we just ran, a doctor was running and winning talking about health care. the other side was running ads on kicking around immigrants and confederate statues. let the other guys do the fringy stuff. we think bread and butter issues

are the key to being successful. don't infight. the virginia race last month, we were all pulling together. we had a tough primary for governor on the democratic side. then everybody got on board and in the week before the race in virginia, the national party was having a circular firing squad about whether the 2016 primary was rigged or not. the advantage dems have is president trump is unpopular. we saw it in virginia and in alabama. it's not the tax plan. it's not the wall. it's divisiveness. waking up every day wanting to fight with somebody, that's not what people want in a leader. >> there's some litmus tests emerging in your party. one of them is over this question of impeachment. do you think that the president should be impeached at this point? that's what some in your party are arguing? >> i think -- i'm a critic of the president. i'll stick up for him or vote for appointments if i think they're good, but i think he is hurting the country's

reputation. he's hurting the country's values. and hee's hurting people that i care about. the impeachment question is fundamentally a question you get to when the investigation that mueller is doing or the intel committees have done. i don't think -- because we're investigating some of the most serious things you can level. and i don't think you prematurely cut that off and say, okay, we're going forward now. you have to get to the bottom of the investigation that's being done and to the potential, well, what russia did to cyberhack the election and the potential cooperation or collusion between the trump campaign and transition with the russian government. you can't prejudge that until you get to the bottom of the investigation. that has to be done first. >> there's some in your party also calling for the president to resign because of allegations of sexual misconduct. multiple allegations. do you think he should resign in the face of those allegations? >> here's what i think about that. that's completely unrealistic. he has no shame. you cannot shame this guy. he's not going to resign. so i worry less about what the

president should do than what the senate should do. james madison, 1787, 230 years ago, they wrote the constitution to give the senate very unique powers. and some powers to hold an executive in check. they were worried about an executive gone wild. >> so do you want to use one of those powers? >> i want to use all the powers we have. we have to use every power in the constitution to keep this president in check. and that means the powers that we have as a senate minority to slow things down, block appointments if they're bad, shine a spotlight on them. use the threshold to block if we can. but the powers extend beyond that. the article 3 judiciary. judges with life tenure standing up to this president. governors are standing up to the president. if he pulls out of the paris climate accord, many governors are staying in. journalists are doing great work against this president to hold him accountable. and the best part of all, the right of the people to peacefully assemble, petition government for redress of

grievances. the women's march. airport protests. the letters and calls i get at my office. people going to town hall meetings to say don't take away my health care. we're seeing the immune system that was put in place when this constitution was drafted, largely to check against an overreaching executive. we're seeing it work. >> do you think that the way your party handled senator franken's resignation was appropriate or went too far based on his behavior? >> you know, the behavior is very, very troubling and it wasn't acceptable and he acknowledged that. but the most important thing about this moment is that we have crossed over a cultural rubicon. not that serve going to behave well. haven't passed over that one yet. but the rubicon i think we've crossed over is you don't have to suffer in silence. if you have been victimized or targeted, inappropriate comments or touching or assault or battery or whatever, you don't have to suffer in silence. i hope that same feeling which we feel so strongly here in congress, it should be in every

workplace in this country. it should be somebody who is working a shift at a hospital or somebody who is working retail at a walmart. they should feel the same comfort to come forward. when you cross over that rubicon, it's hard to make some of the fine distinctions. but in al's case, i can compare al's case to others. it was inappropriate behavior. and he acknowledged as such. and it was a real sad day up here to see a senator as good as al step down. but he took responsibility. and he stepped down. >> my thanks to tim kaine for that interview. i was struck by his difference in tone in approaching this. particularly on president trump. he did not make the same calls that senator gillibrand has for the president to resign over all of those allegations. >> i think because there's two wings of the democratic party if not multiple ones. people who want to run against donald trump that think running against a person that they can turn into a villain is a winning tactic. you saw in alabama, as much as doug jones was connected to that community, prosecuted the four

girls killed in the -- the murders of those four girls killed in that church bombing, there was this idea that with roy moore he could focus on and say, look how terrible this person is. and then people like tim kaine saying, look, the democratic party needs a real message, a clear message and he's almost saying as much as i want to run against donald trump, that's not what we can do in the midterms. democrats are finding out, even if they want to say they have a message that donald trump and the things he's doing are probably the things they'll put in commercials come next year. >> certainly animating the democratic base and some change in numbers. battles remain for congress before we cross over into 2018. republican congressman carlos curbelo joins me live from miami just ahead to talk about taxes, spend, and the fate of millions of americans. we're back after this. for my constipation,

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i'm announcing today that i will not support any appropriations bill that funds the government beyond december 31st unless we get this daca issue resolved. >> that was republican congressman carlos curbelo in november saying that he won't vote for a spending bill unless congress comes up with a solution for d.r.e.a.m.ers. those undocumented immigrants who came to the united states as young children with their parents. this comes as reports that democratic lawmakers are stepping away from their threats to shut down the government to

save d.r.e.a.m.ers making it more likely the immigration fight will be held off until next year. i'm joined by congressman curbelo who is live in miami. congressman, thanks so much. it's great to see you. >> good evening, kasie. thanks for having me. >> let's start with this spending fight. is your position still that you'll not vote for any continuing resolution to fund the government past december 31st if it doesn't have a fix for d.r.e.a.m.ers? >> that's absolutely right, kasie. i've always voted to fund the government because i think it's the right thing to do, the responsible thing to do. but we need to take a stand. those of us who want to stand up for these young americans, and i call them americans because even though they're not documented, they grew up in our country. they speak perfect english. they are working here. they are productive. they've gone to college. some of them want to serve in our military. so it's time to say enough. congress has been debating this d.r.e.a.m.er issue for 16 years. no action. so i think now is the time to say, let's get this done before we go home for the holidays.

let's give these young people and the country the gift of making sure that they can stay here for the rest of their lives. oh, and by the way, if we can reach a compromise and have some common sense reasonable border security in there as well, let's deliver that, too, but let's not wait until next year. >> does your stance on this mean you don't think there's a way to make a fix for d.r.e.a.m.ers if the congress waits until after the holiday? do you think it makes it less likely or potentially impossible for a deal? >> i think it's possible to get a deal next year. if we don't get one this week i'll work hard to get one next year but i will tell you this. the closer we get to that march deadline when these work permits start expiring, when the daca protections start going away for d.r.e.a.m.ers, at that point it's going to be harder and harder to get a good compromise that can solve this issue. that's why some of us have taken the stand know that let's get it

done now. let's not let this spill over into 2018. the president of the united states has called for this. he has called on congress to act. we know republican leaders are open to this. obviously, democratic leaders are supportive as well. so let's just get it done. >> breitbart is writing about your stance here. there's a headline. congressman kir bellow, i will vote to shut down federal government unless we get, and they call it daca amnesty. do you think breitbart is a productive force in this country? >> no, and you ask that very kindly. not at all. and quite frankly, on this immigration issue, it's the extremists on both sides who have prevented a compromise and a solution for years. the people on the far right who call this amnesty, even though it's not. the people on the far left who believe that this issue is so potent politically that they don't want it to get solved. they just want to use these young people. and we saw that last week when a

lot of young people were encouraged to go to my office, senator schumer's office and do a sit-in. we're their friends. we're trying to help them. they should go to the offices of the members who have it made to commitments that we have. so i reject all of that rhetoric that is dishonest, that misleads the american people. and that tries to sow the division and the hatred that we see more and more in our politics in this country. >> congressman, we showed a generic ballot poll from nbc news/"wall street journal" that shows 50% of americans now say the democrats should control congress. that is a pretty significant milestone heading into 2018. you are on the front lines of this fight for congress that republicans are going to be facing in 2018. i'm wondering, do you think that republican leaders in congress are doing enough to stand up to

president trump? >> kasie, i don't worry about re-election. i tell people the best -- >> i've never met a politician that doesn't worry about re-election. >> the best re-election strategy is to do a good job. and you know, people ask, what about your seat? it's not my seat. it's the seat of the people of the 26th district of the state of florida. they can do with it whatever they please. i'm going to work hard to get re-elected when campaign season comes around but for now, the most important thing that we need to do -- each member in congress -- is get good things done. you know i helped write the tax bill. i'm going to be pushing hard to get it across the finish line next week. this d.r.e.a.m.er issue is a big deal for me. i think if we deliver it with common sense border security, a lot of americans are going to be happy. and, of course, congress needs to fulfill its constitutional role to be a check and balance on the executive and judicial branch as well. i'm certainly a member who is always willing to be honest, when i disagree with president

trump, i'm very vocal. when i agree with him, i'm very vocal about it. that's how i treated president obama. >> is there room for you, do you think, in this republican party? >> there is right now. there is right now. and quite frankly, i think we need more members in both parties -- not just in the republican party -- in both parties who are willing to reach across the aisle, who are willing to find compromise, who are willing to be honest with the american people and not demagogue every single issue. that's the revolution that we need in our country's politics because the vast majority of americans who are not radicalized are being drowned out and each day they have less and less space for them in our political system. so i'm leading the charge trying to bring republicans and democrats together where we can agree, working with the problem-solvers caucus, a group that's dedicated to this specific mission. so we have a lot of work to do, kasie. but i think voices that try to

bring people together in washington, d.c., are more necessary than ever before. >> congressman carlos curbelo, thank you for your time tonight. >> see you in d.c. this week. >> sounds good. when we return here -- we'll dig into a secretive american space program with support that once had from the most powerful men in the u.s. senate. we'll be back with more "kasie dc" in just a moment. hat to avo, where to go, and how to work around your uc. that's how i thought it had to be. but then i talked to my doctor about humira, and learned humira can help get and keep uc under control... when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,

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look at him. he's heading for that small moon. >> i think i can get him before he's there. he's almost in range. >> that's no moon. it's a space station. >> it's too big to be a space station. >> it's been major weekend for outer space. i speak, of course, of "star wars: the last jedi." detailing our nation's secretive search for signs of intelligent life. the advanced aerospace threat identification program reportedly dates back to 2007 and one of the patron saints is said to be senator harry reid,

among others. the articles have a lot of tantalizing detail, cliiincludi unidentified objects. "the times" reports that none of the three senators wanted a pub luck debate on the senate floor about funding for the program. i can't imagine why. harry reid said, this is black money and that is it and that's how we wanted it. the program reportedly came to an end in 2012. and one of the senior officials complained to, no less, than james mattis that more time should be spent on the issue. here is that official speaking publicly this fall. >> for nearly the last decade, i ran a threat identification program focusing on unidentified aerial technologies. it was, in this position, i learned that the phenomena is

indeed real. >> he's now part of a company called to the stars academy, seeking to lift the veil on space technology. the president and ceo of the group is former front man for blink 182, and now on senator reid's twitter account, the truth is out there. seriously? can we talk about this for a second? >> yes. so i love it. i normally don't think of our federal government as that fun, you know, fun enough to give $22 million to a ufo program. but it seems very fun, first of all. secondly, on a more serious note, they said that ufos, people obviously think of spaceships as aliens but they don't know if it's the russians or chinese or new technology that we don't know about that seems like it's defying the law of physics but it's a threat

from another nation. it did seem to be sort of underpinned by something legitimate. >> and there seems that there were national security concerns? >> yeah. i mean, as a sci-fi fan -- >> two people here on the set have never seen "star wars" and two people who reportedly love it. >> and my cat is princess lea. this is absolutely -- it was a national security concern. there were military folks up in the air flying around who saw something, some sort of objects that they thought were either hovering oddly or speeding up very fast, something defying the laws of physics and the concern was that one of our foreign adversaries might have a technology that we don't. it was very much defense-based. >> actually a real thing. rach "charlie hebdo" blade, thank you for your time. i appreciate it. congressman keith ellison,

carly fiorina and tom all stop by. plus, questions about what did and did not happen in the tax reform plan. brand-new reporting just ahead. first, our christmas sweater plaid watches the sunday's shows so you don't have to. we'll be right back. hey, man. oh!

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today we have a president with sinking approval ratings,

an unpopular piece of legislation, the tax bill. >> one of the most unpopular bills in years. >> the republican tax plan is in the home stretch. >> 1$1.5 trillion tax cut. >> this is a historic event. >> this is going to be the biggest single change in fixing a broken tax system that we've ever had. >> do i think they could have done better for the middle class? i do. it's still not going to pay for itself. everybody knows that. >> this is a grossly unfair tax bill. >> it was a historic and, frankly, shocking victory. >> a ruby red state. >> people are not happy with us being small, angry and narrow. they are starting to say no. >> roy moore vows to fight on. >> i'll be ready to go regardless of whether he concedes or not. >> would you vote for or against this bill? >> i haven't had a real chance to look at that and study it. >> immigration. >> i'll have to look. >> congratulations on your 25th

anniversary. all right. thank you so much. >> welcome back to the second hour of "kasie dc." welcome, amisha, washington white house reporter and msnbc political analyst ashley parker. white house correspondent jeff bennett and former fbi special agent and nbc news and msnbc national security analyst clint watts. honored to have you all here. we showed a little bit about the tax reform at the top but there's this bubbling controversy over what people are calling the corker kickback. he wrote a letter to the chairman of the finance committee responding to this. there was a report in the international times about it. he said he received a call from a reporter and there was a suggestion that it was

airdropped into the conference without prior consideration and this, of course, the premise of this story is that the last-minute change will benefit bob corker's personal bottom line because he has ownership stakes in some major real estate companies. this seems to me like a last-minute push to show -- i mean, they do need bob corker to vote for this. >> they would essentially need bob corker to vote for this. the other thing going on is this is a tax break for people with large commercial real estate holdings. any other americans may be out there thinking there are real estate holdings but the president obviously has this and corker, of course, was someone who was not a yes before and now he is. he's been trying to clear himself as someone critical of the president to say we need an answer to this and need to explain what is going on here. and here's a prime example of

how you might benefit. >> right. he says here, because of the many sensitivities clarity on this issue is very important and i hope you'll respond in an ex pid delicious manner. >> remember when marco rubio flipped from no to yes, when bob corker did it there was this and what was this incentive to do it and now, of course, we may have found out what the incentive was. >> i guess we will see. bob corker seems to be

if you look back going all the way through the campaign period to the post election period but before inauguration, this is when all of the communications would be happening. what is interesting is it seems like the trump personnel that moved from the campaign into the white house somehow thought that their communications were privileged when they are not. president trump isn't the president until inauguration day. so you've got a misunderstanding on the part of the trump people which begs the question why are they nervous about this. but it was a natural process that t that the mueller investigation was going to go through. they are going to go through that transition period so this should have been expected and

not at all surprised. >> what do you think drove the decision to put out a statement and mueller's team very rarely says anything. and some far afield frommed it point of the investigation and they've decided to say something in public. do you know why? >> that's probably the only time they will level the smears against the mueller team. they are trying to set a baseline of fact and fiction so they can get ahead of the narratives being shaped beyond their control. one of the dangers is if it's the fbi or mueller investigation or cia, you can't really fight back with accusations being leveled at you but you can set the record straight. i think what they are probably trying to do is not let this get out of control like we saw last week where there was speculation on one side or one party is using it as a weapon against the

other and say this is why we did this and what it relates to so you have some sort of bearing for the public to take in the news and for it to occur this week. >> they are trying to undermine the credibility of the it to set it up in a political way. i feel like republicans were saying to let mueller do his job, he's fine. >> and since the day michael flynn set the deal to cooperate with them. he said that the transition team thought that their e-mails were privileged. that's certainly the case. i talked to the attorney who wrote that seven-page complaint letter and they contend that they met with the then general counsel of the gsa back in june and that at that meeting, general counsel told them that

if anyone asks for access to the e-mails, they would make the determination of kwha they wanted to do and that's why they say that the gsa properly -- >> >> so they got that advice? >> yes. they control their stuff and the gsa, the kus stoed genercustodi. but the way they found out that mueller's team got access to the e-mails is that it showed up in the russia probe and that people were being questioned about things that they only could have known by having access to the e-mails. >> and this included things about jared kushner, which seems to be a central concern. >> yes. why is why i think this probe has gotten president trump and supporters of him very nervous because he always said he wanted to be very narrow and only about financials and what you're seeing now is the investigation

touching off on not only his kids but his son-in-law and sources that i talk to say that these things can just spin. we're talking about people with very complex financials and this could kind of go in any direction. >> what's your sense of what kind of trouble kushner is in? >> well, his lawyers has repeatedly said that he's in no j ep p jeopardy and fully cooperating. when i interviewed him a while ago, he said he has no plans of leaving washington. she recently asked if she should be looking for a new home, which speaks to their state of home and there are a number of people in the administration who think kushner should be in a lot of jeopardy because of his role in the administration and if you just get out of the white house, he would be fine. if he feels like he's here to say, it backs up what his lawyers are saying but if you

look at the number of things that the mueller people are being looking at, he was doing everything, especially during the transition. >> right. jack of all trades. one key part of this that we haven't talked about too much is the role of the fbi and the agents on mueller's team. after tweeting that the fbi was in, quote, tatters, the worst in history last he cweek, trump sa this shortly before believing to speak at the fbi academy. >> it's a shame what happened to the fbi. we're going to rebuild it but it's very sad when you look at those documents and how they've done that is really, really disgraceful and you have a lot of very angry people seeing it. it's a very sad thing to watch. >> but exactly one hour later, here he is speaking in front of law enforcement officers. >> being a police officer is not

just a career. it's the calling. and i've seen it. i have so many friends that are police officers. so many people in the fbi. these are great, great people. these are really heroes for all of us. so thank you very much. >> clint watts, what is your sense of how this is being received by the fbi and we haven't talked at length about this but the text messages that were exchanged, that have kind of caused some of the political angst around the mueller investigation, what's your view of how important that is? >> i assume he got awareness of the issue and that points to the professionalism of mueller. what i love about president trump's comment about making the fbi bigger and better, we

actually did that after 911 and that was director fbi who made it big are and better. in one sense he's battering the mueller investigation and he's talking about making changes and 30 minutes later he's down in quantico and ultimately the damage is to the institution. and if you're trying to do an investigation, criminal white collar, violent crimes, counterterrorism, do you think those guys are going to help you or support you or have sources that are really trusting the fbi? it really does remarkable damage to our federal law enforcement with comments like that. >> jeff bennett, were you surprised at what the president said when he said there was no

collusion and he was not going to fire mueller? >> i wasn't surprised because he has said that in the past. the difficultly with president trump is he can say this on a sunday night and then tomorrow night say something entirely different. but i was not struck at all to hear the president say that there was no kol clugcollusion, going to fire bob mueller. >> ashley, do you think it's going to wrap up soon, et cetera? >> i think he is. a number of people close to him say they think ty cobb is incorrect. they don't think he's lying but that his assessment of the situation is wrong and they are worried that the president is engaging in magical thinking. ty cobb has been given a clear ending which is the end of the year. the interesting time to check back to see if the president still believes him is january 1st, january 2nd.

>> if we get that far. all right. a lot more to come coming up in this next hour. the dnc is getting a taste of mom m momentum. deputy chair keith ellison is joining me and carly fiorina will speak about tax reform and sexual harassment and the culture in washington. you're watching "kasie dc." you can have almost a spiritual experience with the beauty of nature or with a connection with the past. there's no better place to find that than a national park, which preserves that beauty and the history. (vo) the subaru share the love event has donated over six-point-five million dollars to help the national parks. get zero percent financing for 63 months on select models, plus we'll donate two hundred and fifty dollars to charity. when heartburn hits fight back fast with tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum tums chewy bites.

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democrats are riding high after wins in alabama's special senate election and last month's virginia governor's race.

but tonight there's a new reason for them to be optimistic heading into next year's midterm elections. our brand-new "wall street journal" poll finds 50% of registered voters want democrats to control congress. that's compared to 39% who want republicans to stay in charge. joining me now, minnesota democratic congressman and deputy chair of the dnc keith ellison. thanks for coming back on the show. really appreciate it. >> of course. >> my question for you is, do you think that these results in virginia and alabama are papering over in some ways the divisions within the democratic party? or do you think that this is a stunning win in a southern state that nobody expected. do you think the winds are strong enough that those divisions are not going to matter? >> i think that any functional party has people within it who are unified on the values but have different ideas about how to get there. that's not a bad thing.

it's okay. we had a great community process last week and came out with a lot of core agreement that those unity commissioned ideas are going to go to the rules committee and i believe we're going to come out with a stronger, more transparent, more open, more delicate and voter focused than ever. we put a lot of money and trained people on the ground in virginia and also we're proud of getting -- making history in a lot of places with all of the delegates that were elected to the house of delegates in virginia. we really went down ballot, kasie. we didn't win the top ticket. we went down ballot and we're

most proud of that. and if you look at fayetteville and other parts of the city, our promise to work up and down the ticket, we see it being fulfilled. and we believe we have grassroots energy. >> you brought up the unity commission which is in response to some of the discord that you all experienced in 2016. >> right. >> i want to play a little bit of what tim kaine had to say about that and the elections in virginia and then we'll talk about it. take a look. >> you bet. >> the virginia race last month, we were all pulling together. we have a tough primary for governor object t governor on the other side and then in the week before the race, they were having a firing squad about whether the 2016 election was rigged. the problem that dems have right

now is that president trump is unpopular. >> how do you avoid that? >> well, i just have a different take. my take is that it's natural and normal where people have the right to offer their views that people will offer those views and those views won't always be the same. it's okay. as democrats, we believe in coming together and i think the national part of the dnc, we are organizing. we are on the ground and making historic investments in technology and investing up and down the ticket and going all over. we're strengthening every single state party. so i just think that we are heading in the right direction. i don't think me or tom perez believes that we're done. we've got a lot of work to do. everybody knows that. but the fact is, things are going in the right direction and i'm excited. you know, i tell you, i was in texas over the weekend and just

the spirit is all over the place and i feel that we're not just planning for next election, we're playing for the next two or three decades as we make these core investments which i think will pay off more and more. >> congressman, you voted in favor of a resolution that would impeach the house of representatives and your leadership voted against it. do you think the dnc should say that they will advocate for the impeachment of the president? >> kasie, if you asked me to vote yes or no, i'm going to vote yes because i think president trump has done enough things to deserve it. but you need 218 votes to pass a bill. so let's just let the mueller process work its way through. let's continue to build the case. let's continue to find the evidence no matter where it leads. the fact is that if -- i would

never be the one to bring that resolution but if you put it on the floor, you know, i had to vote my conscience. i don't think this is anything to be too concerned about. mueller is doing a thorough investigation. he's asking the questions. he's obtained the cooperation where he needs it and i, for one, think that we just need to continue to support that investigation and to resist those people who try to undermine the investigation. we feed to have a process that is allowed to move forward and find the evidence where it may be, whatever it is. >> do you think that bernie sanders should run for president again in 2020? >> you know, bernie's a great friend of mine. i supported him last time. as dnc officer, i cannot longer advocate for anyone in the primary. >> let me ask you about an issue that i know that has been important to you and that has been in the news this week. that's net neutrality. there was a major decision in the fcc. >> terrible.

>> what do you think are the next steps? are there any options in congress? there are some republican who is have criticized the decision that the fcc made. do you see room for bipartisan cooperation here? >> you know, we're always looking for help to protect an open internet. the internet was started out with public money with a grant that is a defense grant and built up by -- with public support and to now close it off and to let the biggest commercial interest exploit it, throttle and block people, i think it's a travesty. this is a tremendous commissioner of the fcc and she has been speaking all over. she's trying to help the american people have access. you know, the vote of the fcc, those three commissioners who voted to basically open it up for commercial exploitation and close it down for people, that was wrong.

now, we're going to be looking for allies wherever we can find them to try to say that the internet is going to stay open and that we'll be able to have the new entrepreneurs, activists who want to be on the internet and communicate and can be there but i tell you, we have seen already the dangers of throttling and blocking on the internet and we have to resist it. so we're going to stay for an open internet. that's what we're going to do. >> congressman keith ellison, thank you very much. talk to you soon. >> all right. into when we continue, my conversation with carly fiorina on the rapidly evolving culture for women in washington and what is next for her. "kasie dc" is back after this. ♪ ♪

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the energy conscious whopeople among usle? say small actions can add up to something... humongous. a little thing here. a little thing there. starts to feel like a badge maybe millions can wear. who are all these caretakers, advocates too? turns out, it's californians it's me and it's you. don't stop now, it's easy to add to the routine. join energy upgrade california and do your thing. welcome back to "kasie dc." we have a new statement from the office of the doctor treating senator john mccain who, of course, has been hospitalized at wall te

walter reig thd this week. he says he has responded well and had a viral infection. that's a new information about what was going on with senator mccain's health. the doctor says an evaluation of his underlying cancer showing that he's responding positively. there's a statement from john mccain when they initially announced his condition. we also have a new statement from his office. they say senator mccain has returned to arizona and will undergo physical therapy and rehabilitation at the mayo clinic. so this answers that question of whether senator mccain is going to be in washington for the tax reform vote. it says that he'll be returning in january. so it seems like at this point they don't need his vote on the tax reform bill but, of course, everybody hoping that this is something that eventually the senator will be back and at work in the senate. >> yeah. he's someone that when he walks around the capitol, there's a real aura around him and i think

they are more gracious with him and everyone is kind of rooting for you whether you're a democrat or republican. it's tough to know that he's been flying back and forth while trying to battle this. it's good for republicans to say you can say at home we've got this but also tells me as a reporter that we're going to see a good vote on tax reform in favor of republicans. >> certainly his sense of humor and presence is one that is impossible to miss in the halls of congress and here's to hoping that he'll be back to yell at me or any of us asking a stupid question. >> or chase. >> exactly. our interview with carly fiorina is coming up next. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "kasie dc." the future of the republican party is an open question right now and one of the people who has tried to bring that into some focus has been carly fiorina, the former presidential candidate now chairman of the unlocking potential foundation. senator, thank you for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. >> let's start with the most basic of questions. you ran in a wide-open field and you were a little by yourself as the woman who was running and you took incoming heat from now president donald trump and we've seen that continue in office.

how do you think the president is treating women as president of the united states? >> i think what we're finding out is that there are a whole bunch of people in positions of power and authority who treat women terribly. a whole bunch of people. a whole bunch of men. i think what we're also finding out, whether it's harvey weinstein or roger ailes or charlie rose or con conyers, i think what we're also finding out is people knew it was going on and so while i don't condone in any way what donald trump did -- >> do you think he's being singled out? >> i think we have overlooked a lot of people's behavior. we've overlooked previous president's behavior. >> what does that say about that? >> here's what i actually think it says. i think george washington said it best, honestly. seriously. >> okay. >> a long time ago, george washington said beware of the rise of political parties because they will come to care only about winning and they

won't care about governing or problem solving or values and i think politics has become about winning at all costs so i think what you see happening in both parties over many years is people don't care what it takes to win, they just want to win. >> what do you think of the democratic calls for the president to step down? is kristen gillibrand wrong about that? >> i think it's tourlpurely pol. >> where was she when it was going on? my point is that just like republicans, let me be an equal opportunity employer here. republicans talk about how terrible it was that barack obama plays golf and now that donald trump does, not so much. democrats talk about how terrible it is that donald trump has said bad things about women but when democrats were actually

abusing women, not so much. the point is, hypocrisy is a bipartisan affliction. and both parties, both parties and politicians in both parties care more about winning than almost anything else and i think it's one of the reasons why people, citizens, every day americans get so tired of politics and politicians because there has to be something more here than winning. actually, maybe it should be about serving, problem solving and leading. >> let me show you -- we just had it on the screen briefly. president trump tweeted at kristen gillibrand after all of this back and forth and used a very sexist -- he says here, she would come to my office begging for campaign contributions not so long ago and would do anything for them. what do you say to that? >> totally inappropriate. totally inappropriate. and by the way, you'll recall, i have not been shy about calling

this president out, not after "access hollywood," not after what he said to me. it's totally inappropriate. and more than that, itself-destructive. guess what that did for kristen gillibrand. it helped her raise money and her profile. if donald trump is concerned about keeping republicans in office, he should quit tweeting things like that at kirsten gillibrand. >> let me ask you about your new initiative. you have a lot of leadership experience across corporate america. what is it that you're driving into now and i was looking at what you were talking to groups about leadership. how much of that is what we need to see from women stepping into the leadership from? >> well, first let me say that from a lifetime of experience at the corporate world and nonprofit world and even in the policy and political world, i've learned this. everyone is capable of being a

leader and that has nothing to do with your position. we have a lot of people in big power who don't lead and many are politicians in both parties but the fundamentals of leadership, the character, the kour courage, the collaboration and problem-solving, those are characteristics of us all. yes, we would be better if more people would lead men and women. >> how do you grade the leadership skills of republicans on the hill passing this massive tax reform package? >> well, hey, let's give them credit. they've gotten it past. i think it's progress. it's a step in the right direction. we needed to cut taxes. we needed to cut taxes on businesses. we needed to help small businesses. we needed to help working families. is it everything i would have asked for? no. i don't think it simplifies the tax bill enough. i think it's too bad that benefits to big businesses are permanent and benefits to families are not but it's a step

in the right direction and sometimes you have to settle for progress, not perfection. >> let me ask you, i'm curious, i'm based here in washington and it strits me there's a reckoning going on in general with how the technologies are impacting our society but also with sectionism with sexism within the silicon valley. what would you say to the young men leading these companies? >> well, first of all, yes, there's a reckoning and there's a reckoning on two fronts. number one, these companies facebook, google, amazon, they have such incredible power now. they have consolidated so much power and so they have to recognize that they don't get to act with the same unfettered freedom that a $3 million startup does. that's part of accepting the responsibility of having so much

impact and power. the second thing i would say, silicon valley stands up and says we're so proud of our diversity. they're not diverse. they have a long way to go and i will say, having built americrocity. >> carly fiorina, thank you, appreciate you coming in. some air fresheners are so overwhelming, they can...

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i don't know if you know this, but as of now on the internet, there's about 14 females accusing you of sexually inappropriate conduct. >> what? >> oh, yes, jeff. there are detailed accounts being posted right now of you having sexually inappropriate behavior with fellow staff members and guests of your show. would you like to respond to those allegations? >> i don't really know what is going on right now. >> no time to respond, jeff. see what is happening? >> life imitating art in the culinary world. celebrity chef mario batali was fired after he was accused of sexual misconduct. his apology letter is getting

slammed for also including a cinnamon roll recipe. ken friedman and john besch have been accused of sexual harassment by the women who worked for them. besch says it was a consensual relationship with an employee and at friedman's restaurant, the spotted pig, one room was named the rape room, according to "the new york times." and "assessing a woman as a body rather than as a person with a mind, character and talent denies the full measure of her humanity. it's wrong and it demeans us all. real men don't need to be told this." joining me now is tom from bravo's "top chef." tom, it's great to see you. thank you for taking time to be with us tonight. how would you describe this problem in the restaurant industry?

we've been grappling with it here in washington and on capitol hill and i think elsewhere in media industries. it's often been described as an open secret. is that how it is in the restaurant business as well? >> well, listen, sexual harassment is rampant through our culture. so, yeah, i actually tweeted after the issue broke with mario b ac batali that no one should be surprised and i made that comment because it was well documented in a 2006 book "heat" and, also, it was an ongoing investigation by "the washington post" by "the new york times" and also eater that was also pretty well known and it wasn't a secret in our industry. so that's why i made that comment. what you're seeing in the restaurant industry is a reflection of what is happening in our culture. >> what do you think is the best way to combat this? the restaurant industry?

what needs to change? do you see a world in which it can change in. >> yeah, i do. again, i think what we're seeing right now is that women are finding a voice and they are finding a voice because they actually they speak up. they're seeing the monuments come down. they're seeing big men sort of fall. prior to this, what recourse did they have? go to the hr department and make a complaint ? they couldn't find an attorney to create a lawsuit. what they're doing is finding out they can take their power back by going public and bringing someone down. it's really powerful. these women have to tell their stories. i think once we get past this, we have to address what's happening in our culture right now. we have to address the deep seeded shame that men feel when they are humiliated by women. this goes back to childhood. so we actually have to make it where men should feel that if they are working next to a woman

who is smarter and better than they are, that's okay. they should celebrate that. what we don't understand sort of being a man -- there's a woman who wrote a response to my piece explaining that just to get through her day, she had to make choices based on using her sexuality, when to ratchet up if she needed something from the prep cook to -- whether she had to flirt do that as opposed to the guy demanding it. women just -- they try to be successful and there's a bunch of barriers in their way that men don't realize. we need to talk about that. in fact, in the same piece that you referenced, i mention that we don't owe it to women just to let them talk and put their message out there. we owe it to them to break down the barriers that get in the way to making them successful. ultimately, this is about economic well-being for women. when you look at women who are dropping out of my industry by the time they are 30 because they want to raise children,

because they actually want to race a family, they're dropping out. you know, there's a conversation we need to have that goes way past sexual harassment at this point. >> i want to ask you, too, tom, about -- we have been grappling with this here, too. there are a lot of workers in the restaurant industry, a lot of people across america who maybe they are never harassed with somebody like mario. they might be waitresses this is the restaurants you worked in. they work for tips often times. is there a way to address the dynamic or to address the concerns that they have? very often, a lot of them with just scraping by. >> yeah. it's great now that we're finding women are finding their voice. keep in mind that minorities and people of color are probably getting a lot worse. this is -- again, this is i guess what is part of the open

secret. i think the issue right now is someone that's big, whether they get taken down -- there's probably a chef somewhere working in a hotel in nebraska who is going to get sat down by the hr department, lose their job and they will move on to the next job and you will never know. what we need to do, i believe, is -- do we need an ethical code of conduct we sign on to? do we need to get into culinary schools and teach kids at a young age what it's like to work with women and support women? support them because we have to recognize that they have every bit as much to contribute and they actually have a right to make a living. >> chef tom, thank you so much for being a leader on this issue and taking the time to talk to us. we will watch top chef thursday on bravo, 10:00, 9:00 central. i want to talk briefly to -- there's a new piece out tonight. you have done a lot of work on this, as i have.

talking about this kind of rampant speculation that's been going on about who may be the next to fall in congress. some of this is focused on chuck schumer was the subject of essentially a fake harassment lawsuit this week. it seems like that fear has spreading on capitol hill. >> i think there's this idea that there are men who haven't sexually harassed people that are terrified they will have to fight an allegation that's not true. there's that part of it. there's also the idea that there are a lot of men who are wondering if what they said to a woman, they are reassessing the things they said to women. i think in that aspect, when you talk to advocates, they want that. that's a good thing that men are thinking, how am i speaking to women. that's part of why the movement is happening. >> for sure. we're back in just a few with what to watch for. i don't want to sound paranoid, but d'ya think our recent online sales success seems a little... strange? na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast."

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before we go, i want to get one last thought from all of our panelists what to watch for for the week ahead. >> watch this week and through the holidays, potential white house departures. at the top, rex tillerson. the white house is -- has tried to knock down the reporting about an exit plan, exit strategy for rex tillerson. keep his name at the top of the list. mark short, the president's top -- gary cohen, the president's national economic adviser, who butted heads with the president over the president's comments about charlottesville. took himself out of the running.

>> watch ##youarefired. >> i'm going to take a point of personal privilege. first of all, our new dog watching radar joined our family this week. here he is watching the show at home tonight. keep sending your photos. i love them. second of all, here is what i am watching for. a wedding date from ashley parker, our close friend of the show, and michael bender, who got engaged yesterday. it was great to celebrate with all of them. ashley, i will not put you on spot by asking if you set a date yet. what are you watching for next week? >> i am watching for the president leaving to go to mar-a-lago. that's where he is unfettered. that's where aids are able to get to him. he comes back with different ideas in his head that we watch play out in the new year. >> for sure. congratulations, ashley. >> thank you. >> very excited.

we are off christmas eve. join us new year's eve for our look ahead to 2018. for now, good night from washington. up next the year's ten most, brian williams and nicole wallace count down the year's ten most intriguing people and things. stick around. fake news. >> congratulations, mr. president. >> i am outraged. >> i hope there are tapes. >> this trump and russia thing is a made up story. >> we're getting nothing done. >> violated my body. >> it was disgusting. >> he mashed his lips against my face. >> 2017 has been an unbelievable year. the most outrageous, the most surprising and exhausting. the g