over it and get up. >> we are focusing on 2018 and getting democrats elected and i have always always said that joe would make a great president. and i haven't changed. >> we are so lucky as actors that television has embraced women so fully. >> she is very in control of herself and knows what she wants. >> makes her pretty fierce. >> i think people are mesmerized by tv because they have ownership of the characters. >> she has to be who she is. >> she not ambiguous. there is never a struggle to find out what she wants. she is making money and providing food and a roof. >> people tend to want to see more that reflects her actual

experience of life. >> i don't know if we could define independence ourselves. it's different for every person. >> it's someone who has control of her life. it's not about marriage or children or work or what you will do or wear. it's about being able to decide for yourself. >> television is most certainly here to stay. >> new eyes. new vision for the world. >> you never hear someone say he's a party guy, you don't want to marry him. you say she's a party girl.

fun for a laugh, but not the girl you want to marry. you play with the bad girls and marry a good girl. >> it starts with an image. a man on the stage, a politician who has gone through scandal and we think he is going to be the star of the show. and we back out and see this woman standing beside him, mortified. >> with the love of god and forgiveness of my family, i know i can rebuild their trust. >> you see this hollowed out exhausted woman. but she is still going to get the lint off of his sleeve. >> we kept seeing that one image over and over, that press

conference of the disgraced politician or preacher or whoever with that wife standing by the side. one just kept wondering what is going through her mind? >> the relate of what she was put through and the humiliation; you allowed me to welcome that small and unimportant. in that moment when she slaps him, it's her wake up. it's not you bastard, how could you have done this to me, but what have i been doing? >> from that moment on, everything that is involve side open for questioning. >> you spent 24 years there. why did you leave? >> the kids and peter's career. >> we are asked a lot of

ourselves. i'm not blaming anyone but us. just as a mother and a wife myself and someone who loves to work. the constant struggle of trying to be great at both is exhausting. there is this tremendous pressure that i think working mothers put on themselves to be everything and you can't. you just can't. we don't just identify with being mothers and wives anymore. career women. who are we. >> who a woman can be is open to her. she is trying to find her identity. >> she is finally figuring out that playing the good girl all the time has not gotten her very far. >> there is nothing i can say? >> that's right. >> showing her flaws is more comfortable than pretending she

doesn't have any. >> there is nothing wrng wo your television set. do not attempt to control the picture. >> the television kind of trained and brainwashed a whole generation of women. >> society is always putting a lot of pressure on woman to present a perfect image of themselves physically the perfect wife and perfect mom. >> i am proud to bring my friends over. >> thank you. always glad to have them. >> i grew up knowing i would never be a successful wife and mother the way it was portrayed on tv. >> wow. what's this? >> apple juice for that tired achy feeling. >> the image of the model women still make us feel bad somewhere deep inside. that somewhere we are not living up to this ideal of woman hood

and motherhood and wivness. >> mr. cleaver is such a great mom and i will be a failure. >> that image of perfection was false. i don't think anything is deliberate or conscious. >> it was a less complicated time and it was more idealized and aspirational when they portrayed the family. >> the father walks home and puts his brief case down and gets a martini and everyone speaks very respectfully and the roles are define and everybody goes to bed. often in separate beds. >> it still showed the mother covering up to make the father feel like he was the man or whatever that means.

>> your father is a wonderful father and i couldn't have asked for a burden husband, but he's still a man. a male likes to think of all the ideas. the wife by various justifiably devious methods lets him think it up and everyone is happy. >> it's so freaky. yeah, they saved us a ton, which gave us a little wiggle room in our budget. wish our insurance did that. then we could get a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey, welcome back. this guy... right? yes. ellen. that's my robe. you could save seven hundred eighty two dollars when liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.

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>> finding mary was about 60 girls, really, 60 girls. >> i had had one failure after another. i would read for something and not get the point. >> i don't know what i'm looking for. you will when you see it. >> they said carl reiner and my heart started sounding. >> she read two lines. >> he got this look in his eyes like i had never seen before. >> i grabbed the top of her head and i said come with me. >> i walked her into sheldon's office and i said you're right.

we found our lady. we wanted her because she had a style about her and she was a very modern lady in those days. she wore capris. >> someone called up and said they cup under a little bit too much. you have to let them out. >> they said i was shocking people. i had been an actress who did small parts on dramatic shows. i had no comedy background. all i could think of when i got to work with them is what would lucy do. lucy was the queen. >> laura's thrust in the show was to be the independent woman which was starting to happen at

that time. >> he said right from the beginning, you are not going to be the kind of wife who says here's the cream and sugar, darling and how was your day? not only did mary play an incredibly forceful character, but she i had a true presence and identity. she was not just the beautiful wife should she could have been. >> some of the shows where she wants to go out dancing and be a dancer at the end she decides to just be a mother. >> i wondered if i could take the strain of the daily classes and the rehearsals and exercise. now i know, i can't. >> you can't? >> no, rob. there is not a bone in my screaming for heaven's sake lie down in a hot tub. >> i feel remiss about that. that was not exactly what i would say is a forward looking

thing. she could have done both. >> there was that hangover of oh, well, the husband works and the wife stays at home and that's the way it is. >> my wife worked at home, but there were more aspects than just being a housewife. if you can raise kids and send nontoxic human beings into the world, but a lot of people don't feel fulfilled. they should be able to fulfill themselves however they want. >> it is a terrible thing we are doing to american women with femininity. we are preventing them from reaching their full growth as human beings. >> women caught on to the game.

we haven't discovered the total anatomy of what they have been doing to us, about you we know it's happening. >> women are delightful persons. i hear a strange voice they think is attempting really to stop some of this progress being made on behalf of women. i call that person, you know. >> divorced. >> no. >> never married? >> no. >> why? >> your type. >> there is no simple answer to that. >> how about no i can't type or yes i can. >> there is no simple answer to why a person isn't matter? >> how many answers can there be? >> 65. >> we were fortunate. the concept and the show and the idea of a career women started just as the women's revolution was kicking in and it gave us

lots of stories. >> you have been asking a lot of personal questions that don't have anything to do with my qualifications to do this job. >> you know what? you've got spunk. i hate spunk! >> the original idea that they had was that i was a recently divorced woman. cbs said no. you can't have her divorced because everyone will think she is divorced from dick van dike. >> there are three things you can't do a show about. jews, people with mustaches and divorced people. >> jim and alan wanted to write a show about a woman working in a newsroom who was newly on her own, independent, but terrified. it was not about women's lib.

>> the of the character is it was tough for her to stand over and she seemed a push over. >> mary, come into my office. >> 300 scenes started with mary, come into my office. the batting average was amazing when she was called on the carpet. >> did i ring? >> i think mary tyler moore influences everybody. the first person in the workplace who was single and not interested in not being single and just pursuing her career. very exciting actually. >> we had a daring joke. >> don't forget to take your pill. they both answer -- >> i won't.

she was is birth control and that was a daring joke at the time. >> a woman doesn't have to have a baby if she doesn't want to. >> a man is sbilentitled to hav baby if he wants to. >> mr. grant, on behalf of women everywhere, we would like to be there when he has it. >> so many wanted to step on a soap box. it was important we burned all the soap boxes. we were there for a good comedy show. that existed at a good time for women and we got them to the show. >> i was pretty much born married. i married when i was 18. three months after the end of that divorce i met my second husband, grant tinker. when we separated going to new york for me was terrifying.

i had never been on my own. the only really sure thing i had that said you know what you are doing, you can do this was mary richards, really. i remember thinking what would mary do? women would say to me i watch that show and i so identify with you. i became a writer because of you. i became a producer because of you. when they say you, they mean that whole wonderful production. it's a very lightweight mantle and i'm grateful for it. tthew o" tthew o" (matthew) it's not that bad, though. (mom) yeah. (matthew) the good thing about the surgeries is i get to have

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>> the women's movement helped to shine a light on the old stereotypes. women were reading the feminine mystique and grappling with what she called the problem with no name. you were sent to college and prepared for something great and weren't allowed to pursue it and had to worry about yellow waxy build up on your floors and what

came out of that ultimately was an opportunity to create at character who flew in the face of all of that. >> i have been in over new head since the day i invited joel shaw to my prom. she was 35. we can't always play by the rules. taking risks is how i got here. >> to play murphy was just so much fun. it was so liberating and it freed my inner pest. >> getting along with other people is's reflection of getting along with your >> i havyourreflection right here. approximate are. >> i read the pilot and i thought it was the coolest thing that she just got out of rehab. >> that stopped everyone in their tracks. >> i haven't had a drink in over

a month. i haven't had a cigarette -- >> the reaction was that's not very a very attractive trait in a woman. someone who had problems with alcohol. >> she got to meet lou grant. the buttons got pushed because those were male traits. >> sam alone on cheers came into the bar as a recovering alcoholic, why can't the same a fly to a woman. >> what are cbs said they would like instead of her being a 40-year-old who was coming out of betty ford. diane said no. that's not the point. >> it was exciting to see a woman be starchy. >> i'm beginning to find your attitude to be offensive. >> perch and rotate. >> people want interesting.

they don't want likeable. >> murphy became that person we all wish we were. all the things you should have said or wish you should ve said. she said them. >> she never felt she had to please anyone or be polite. it was such a break for women to see that. >> we do spend a lot of time wanting to be liked. at least at that time. it was unusual to see somebody who really didn't care about that. >> she is a housewife in denver, colorado who started appearing in a local nightclub about three or four years ago and moved out here to hollywood where she was working at the comedy store. this is her first appearance on national television. roseanne barr. roseanne? >> so i'm fat. i thought i'd point that out. >> i was raised in salt lake city, utah.

i was a jewish girl from a poor family. everywhere i went, i was the opposite of everybody. i didn't have a waist and i was fat and i talk like i talk and it was frowned on to be a smart, funny girl. i was also corrected by everyone who came in my path. they would say you should do this. don't do that. this is not the way young ladies -- blah blah blah. i realize early that i would not have anyone's approval. that help me with the constant onslaught of correction and humiliation that fat girls get in schools where everybody is thin and blond and capitulating. >> it's a note from my history teacher. you have to meet with her at 3:15.

>> today? why do you wait until the last minute to tell you these things. >> what do you want to do, myself off a bridge? >> yeah and take your brother and sister with you. >> when i first was a young mother and watched television with my kids, i was just appalled at television. i had the fantasy like a lot of people do. if i got a chance to get on there, here's how i would say it. it's all bs. there was never any woman like me on there or my grandma or mom or aunt. nothing like that. i always wanted to get inside the stereotype. >> we will be at the bowling alley and chip is going to be at the bowling alley. we are bound to run into one another. >> please don't embarrass me.

please. >> there is no way we would embarrass you. >> the first network rejected it. they said who would want to watch that? who would want to watch her or a show about this? no. >> it was the first realistic representation of a mother i had ever seen. a woman who couldn't necessarily hold on to a job and physically roseanne was relatable. she was just this sort of big shril mid-western housewife. >> everyone knows women run the family. that's the thing i liked. the story of a real mother on television. i thought it was just so important. >> every detail of that set spoke volumes about how hard it was to have enough money and put food on the table.

this character was paid by the hour and not getting enough health care benefits and struggling to try to balance the needs of being a good mom with the needs of bringing home a paycheck. >> you are overworked and under paid and overweight and to be laughing at that making edgy jokes about that, that was new. that was different. >> in the same way that roseanne was always fearless in her stand up act. she seemed fearless about what her personal issues might be. >> what do you mean getting plowed? what is your problem? >> you pupu everything in my life. >> and you go for your addictive behavior because you cannot handle conflict. >> and my character said back to roseanne. >> well have another shot of pancake, roseanne. >> you have got to have a pair to be able to allow another

character to say that to your character, knowing full well that you are your character. i don't know who else was getting down and dirty like that. >> all this time you told me if i worked hard and got good grades i can make something of myself. i'm going to wind up just like you. >> hey! you apologize. >> no! >> i wanted the edge on that show and it was a battle every single day. because these people who make television just -- they don't have any -- they are like aliens and don't have real life experience or values or anything. >> i'm working two jobs here. >> i was working class enough myself to do the things that working class people do when you come in front of the people. that's a lot of outrageous

things when i look back, but it worked. it worked if are me. >> she was pissed off and she meant everything she said. she lived that life and up became this big star. in her heart she still was the person struggling with her life. i can't believe you let her talk to you like that. >> the fact that she doesn't want to end up like me proves she has been paying attention. >> it was things i tried to make sense of by making it funno television. >> there are so many red flags if are a network when you put someone so raw on and interesting and not eye candy for male viewers. i can't think of a show that pulled off something that impossible. >> you can be different and okay. you can be fat and okay. your husband can be fat and unemployed and your kids are

still brats and you are okay. as long as you have honesty and integrity and intelligence. it's okay. what isn't okay is to be okay with how bad things are. just to throw some mud in the eye of the beast. that was fun.

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next thing you know, i'm telling strangers defense wins championships. -well, it does. -right? why is the door open? are we trying to air condition the whole neighborhood? at least i bundled home and auto on an internet website, progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. i mean, why would i replace this? it's not broken.

these are the hour's top stories. harsfield jack international airport in atlanta, officials say a georgia substation lost power leaving performs and planes grounded. senator john mccain will miss the vote on the tax bill. he will be at home recovering from a recent round of chemotherapy for brain cancer. his absence is not expected to derail the tax effort. now back to america in prime time.

>> the 30-minute television show is down to 22 minutes. >> almost half the time you are watching, you are watching a commercial. >> it is a business that we are there to on broadcast television to sell products. >> stop, you are both right. >> a lot of the executives in regular network television they are tied to advertisers and there is a lot of fear. >> the whole deal was sell products. the shows that you made were things that wouldn't disturb you too much. make you think too much or pay attention that much. >> they're want interesting. >> once you can stop worrying about getting 20 million people to watch your show, you have a lot more flexibility. >> the gods are punishing for for having casual sex.

>> the thing about cable television, it represents freedom. in cable there is less restriction. >> i had come from doing a lot of network television and felt like well, i wanted to do the net work tv equivalent of the independent tv film. it was going to look at relationships in the way no television comedy had looked at them and never be able to look at them. >> we're didn't have to answer to advertising dollars and respond to nealson ratings and worry about that. >> oh, god. oh, kurt. >> the challenge of creating carrie is a sexually independent woman having sex with a number of different men unapologetically and you wouldn't think she was a pitch. >> my turn. >> sorry. i have to go back toork. >> mary tyler moore shook up

television in the 70s. carrie was going to be a mary tyler moore for the new millennium. >> she is one of the ultimate independent women living in new york when that show was in its hay day, that was our bible. >> this is the first time in the history of manhattan that women had much money and power as a man. >> i was surprised how many times women stopped me and said this is a life and how i communicate with my girlfriends. >> to me what is most exciting about "sex and the city," the focus on the friendships and the strength of the friendships. the relationship between the four women is paramount regardless of what's happening. >> i simple you are so hard is quite effective. >> men need a little encouragement. >> such as? >> yes. that's right. just like that.

come on. don't stop. >> seeing the women talk frankly about relationships, that felt revolutionary. >> a lot of male shows objectified women. we were always objectifying men. they were mr. this or mr. that. they felt disposable. >> for the men who came on, they don't get to say much. there is a brief introduction and their trousers are off. >> if i did a show about a bunch of guys talking smack about women in an explicit way, it would not be funny. >> we never considered the show to be political, we were not subversive. we were not trying to be. >> we were not necessarily thinking about making a social statement. we were thinking about what was funny. >> i was influenced when i

created the show by sex and the city. but those women told each other everything. and my experience with women is that a lot of them will share a lot, but they don't give away everything. if these women will be desperate, it's because they can't share everything about their lives. i wanted a pretty universe so that the kind of dirty dark wicked goings on would have a pastel background. >> you never know what's happening behind closed doors and what is going on with your neighbors. >> a couple of months before i came up with the idea of "desperate housewives," i went to a reunion. they asked so do you love being a mom. she said no. i was kind of stunned. i didn't know women could say

that. >> what i liked about lynette is it gave voice to what i felt were the difficulties and challenges of motherhood. >> how about you? >> four at home, two on the way. >> oh, big family. you are so blessed. i can't imagine anyone better than being a mommy. >> my experience when my children were little is there was no room for wow, hate this. what happened tohe old me? i am not one of the women that went into motherhood with grace. i kind of went in going oh, my god, this is so hard. >> lynette hates being a mother. she doesn't enjoy it. she has a break down on the soccer field. they go out to comfort her and confess to her that they understand they had been through it too. >> lynette turns to them and says why doesn't anyone talk about this? because part of the pain is the shame of it.

>> when you think back to leave it to beaver or any of those women, the whole idea was that you had to be perfect. >> the same way that women were fighting the icon of the perfect wife in the 50s or 60s that led to women's lib, the new icon is motherhood. the perfection of motherhood. when people say she is just a mother. do you know how hard that is. it's a lot easier to get-up-and-go to work when someone offers me a cup of coffee. >> when i decided to start writing the show, the first thing i came up with was the title, "desperate housewives." the woman running the test group said a lot of women will not like that. it became clear to me that they didn't relationship women who just stayed in the home. now you have to be the female ceo to respect and care about you. i find any woman who wants to be a wife and mother and devote her

to creating a home, i find there is something quietly and beautifully heroic about that and i'm attracted to write about that..

>> there are many women out there who are very successful independent women for whom love has always been elusive. you know they are dieing to connect. i think that's what we all are.

we are just dieing to connect. >> this show was pitched about strong competitive women who worked in a workplace where on a bad day you actually killed somebody. the entire show really is a love story between two women who bond over the fact that they are cutthroat and competitive and love surgery more than almost everything else. >> i want both. >> you can't have both. >> definitely wanted to play christina. >> during the procedure is the only thing that matters. if you don't give it, you will die. that's what you have to give up? >> for what? >> love. >> she competitive, mean, nasty, but she has this intense calling. it's almost secondary that she is helping people.

part of what makes the show interesting and complex for me to write is that i'm constantly exploring how these women are dealing with what they are doing in their work life and how it's going to mesh. >> can i be a great surgeon and have a life. i have a man who asked me to marry him i know you have to have both. i know this is none of my business. >> it is none of your business. and i didn't try hard enough. >> sometimes we find ourselves caught between how do we balance? how can we have a successful, meaningful, personal life, work life, and find room for a loving relationship.

the idea that we are supposed to have the fairy tale, but the fairy tale doesn't necessarily exist for these women. ♪ >> so many women that i knew and myself included were struggling with finding balance. >> to be sexy, the look young, to make a living. >> how do you deal with not having child air? how do you deal with bringing your baby to work? how do you deal with the fact your husband is not happy with how much time you are spending or not spending with your child? >> sometimes i think about the tv shows written by mothers, the scripts written by mothers. if a mother has written it,

they're probably writing while doing three other things. >> there is no resolution to that problem of finding balance unless you're ready to say balance is really overrated. >> there's no way you can succeed in that. all the time. i mean, in bits and pieces i suppose. >> we have moved past that moment in which you're supposed to be able to have it all or that having it all is real or frankly even satisfying because if you have it all aren't you just doing everything halfway? and that's the thing that's most interesting to me. ♪ ♪ think of your fellow man, lend him a helping hand, ♪ ♪ put a little love in your heart.♪ ♪ you'll see it's getting late, oh please don't hesitate...♪ ♪ put a little love in your heart.♪ ♪ in your heart... ♪ in your heart...

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you know, if we were on regular network television there's no way this would fly. >> you okay? >> what do you think? >> i mean, she is a drug addict. she cheats on her husband. she breaks the law sometimes with some choices as a nurse and deep down she is -- she is so good. >> linda and i both had been sober for a long time and understand addiction and thought that's a great thing to give a main character, sort of an undertow, always pulling them towards some level of

destruction. >> she really does think this is what she has to do to get through the day. >> we love the idea that she was this single woman. you thought, at work w. a boyfriend who was a pharmacist. she comes home and there's two kids. >> hey, babe. >> and a husband. >> she wants to honor the commitments she's made to the patients. she wants to honor the commitments she's made at a mother, as a wife. >> can't talk. love ya. >> but she stretched herself so thin that now the cracks are starting to show. >> you have this one life and how do you -- what a high wife act it is. >> now she is juggling knives on the high wire and now spinning plates and juggling knives on the high wire. she has so many things pulling at her and i think people can relate to that and i think women especially can relate to that.

in order to get drugs from eddie -- >> thank you. >> jackie takes a ring off going to the hospital. >> there was an episode where jackie can't get her wedding room off and just panics. >> okay. for the record, i'm officially questioning your judgment. >> duly noted. >> she can't home with a broken wedding room. so what do you do? >> ah! >> i understand at least on some visceral sort of level what it feels like for her. >> i really appreciate this. >> it's what i do. >> she has a lot of good intentions and really ultimately wants to be a good person and to help other people but she is thwarted by her, you know, her inner chaos. >> and i think that's why people

relate to jackie because she is flawed. everybody -- everybody has secrets. everybody has darkness. and as a writer it's so exciting to really just tell the truth with this stuff. >> she doesn't care if you like her. she doesn't care if she looks good and how she looks in the horrible pants from the -- you know? she just kind of, yep, here i am. >> beneath this addiction i think is a pretty spectacular person. >> we tell pretty intimate stories. the's no cataclysmic events. and that's how drama is in real life. >> make me good, god. but not yet. >> master, you are sure you would not mind if i went alone?

>> women don't have to be any one thing on television anymore. they can be anything. and i think that what makes that interesting for us is that we no longer have to turn on the television and see an image that feels like no woman would behave like that. >> what's off limits? fit's within the realm of experience i have had, the people i know have had or the writers then it's all game. >> women by and large over the ages have needed to be liked and approved because that's all they had. they weren't offered jobs. it was, hey, am i cute enough for you, darling? >> the women on television now are in pursuit of other things and, yes, it would be nice if people liked them. but it's not their ultimate goal. >> there's so much more freedom to really be all the things that are human, even the ones that are sort of ugly.

>> you can find somebody who reflects you on television right now. >> that's not always been the kiss. >> not only is that more liberating but it's way more fun to play as an artist. >> i think the key to making great tv is to reflect, to really reflect real human behavior. our hopes and dreams and struggles. why did you hit an officer? >> we have now been dispatched. to go in the dorm and restore order. >> the jail responds with force after an officer is assaulted, and inmates attempt to escape. >>