and thanks to you at home for giving us a chance. we're glad you watch sometimes at 6:00 p.m. eastern. have a very happy new year. 12 months of trump. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. this year in politics has delivered a series of explosive headlines, most of which have been generated or at least fueled by president donald trump. like many politicians trump was elected on the promise he'd shake up washington, yet none of his predecessors have delivered such a steady stream of controversy and chaos in their first year in office. we begin tonight with the biggest story of 2017 so far, or by far. the investigation into russian

meddling. potential collusion. and possible obstruction of justice. we've seen an ever-growing mosaic of trump associates, there they are, advisers and affiliates, who've been drawn into the unfolding congressional and federal russia probes. piece by piece investigators have been connecting the dots between them and their possible links to russia over the course of the last year. among those with the most clearly defined russian contacts are some of the highest-ranking former campaign officials, many of whom currently serve or previously served in the white house itself. so far four people have been charged with crimes in this special counsel's probe. two pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate. and two are under indictment. all of this comes after president trump said last february that he didn't know of anyone aside from michael flynn who had contacts with russia. >> can you say whether you are aware that anyone who advised your campaign had contacts with russia during the course of the election? >> no, not -- nobody that i know

of. >> so you're not aware of any contacts during the course of the election? >> look, how many times do i have to answer this question? >> can i just say yes or no? >> russia is a ruse. i have nothing to do with russia. to the best of my knowledge, no person that i deal with does. >> i'm joined now by our round table for the evening. susan page is washington bureau chief for "usa today." michael steele's the former chair of the republican national committee and an msnbc political analyst. and maria teresa kumar is the president and ceo of voto latino as well as an msnbc contributor. thank you for this great group of people to explain a year of politics. let me ask you this for the big question, susan. you write front page coverage for the "usa today," which has gotten very opinionated at the end of the year i must say. the wall is still there. let me ask you about this comparison to watergate. i see it step by step the way people come forward, michael flynn seems to be coming forward in a john dean way, there seem to be parallels. we haven't found a tape yet of the president cutting deals with russia. but comparisons. >> well, i think it is

potentially much more serious than watergate because it involves a foreign government, a hostile foreign government, affecting our election and that is a more serious set of circumstances than we had with the watergate affair. what we don't know is what role the president himself exactly played in this and that is xa what we're going to find out i bet in this next year. >> just at the most simplistic level the democrats broke into their -- rather the republicans broeng into the democratic national committee headquarters at the water zbt. in this case what happened? what's the parallel? >> in this case russia actively tried affect who we elected as president. >> and they broke into? >> and they broke into e-mail systems and they affected the national debate through facebook and they repeatedly reached out and tried to form contacts with the republican candidate -- with the republican candidate's campaign. >> firing people was no way for richard nixon to defend himself. are we seeing the same pattern here? >> i think there's an attempt to that.

and firing people will be no way to get out of this particular mess for the administration as well. in fact, what you've seen at the end of this year is more and more republicans have sort of hunkered down around -- even though they're still throwing stones at robert mueller, they know they can't have those stones actually land in the area of actually pulling his investigation. >> is that what you're hearing, that they hear that's almost a firing offense for the president? >> yes, they do. a lot of republicans, a lot of the ones i've talked to, both on the staff level and at the congressional level, they don't want any parts of a firing of mueller because not just the optics and the politics but the legalities of it, the constitutionality of that. all of those things kind of come together in a big mess for the party. given all the other messes that they've had to deal with this year, that's one they do not want to start next year with. >> maria, real powerful comparison to watergate is nixon. of course he was pardoned by gerald ford, his successor. people always wonder was there something there in the back room in terms of that relationship? but this time around everybody's

talking about trump, is he going to pardon his son-in-law, is he going to pardon somebody else, and he hasn't done it yet. is that part of what we're going to see in the beginning of the year here? >> i think that was part of the calculation when the president said, well, i haven't looked at everything right now for flynn but he may be pardoned. right? so he's basically dangling this maybe, if you basically cooperate with me and basically -- >> isn't the horse out of the barn? >> it is. but this is what's interesting. >> he's already talking. >> he's already talking. but that's it. he's been talking the whole time. he's basically -- while nixon tried to cover up, this president is tweeting out. right? and basically every single thing that he says he's actually sat down with lester holt and admitted why comey was really fired, which was because of the mueller investigation. he basically tweeted out and said the reason flynn was distancing himself was because he lied to him and he knew he was lying to the fbi. this president does not know when to -- what's good for him, and i'm sure that it's driving his lawyers bananas because it's what you're saying, he's literally creating a trail of obstruction of sxwrus. >> well, the president is going

further than denying just collusion. he's consistently rejected the intelligence showing that russia was responsible for even meddling in the 2016 election. let's watch him. >> might be russia. could be china. could be, if you remember, sony. it could be north korea. it could be a lot of places. >> but also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds. okay? >> maybe there is no hacking. >> you don't think it's phony that they the russians tried to meddle in the election? >> that i don't know. >> i think it was russia but i think it was probably other people and/or countries, and i see nothing wrong with that statement. nobody really knows. >> i said it very simply. i think it could very well have been russia but it could well have been other countries and i won't be specific but i think a lot of people interfere. >> i believe that president putin really feels, and he feels strongly, that he did not meddle in our election.

what he believes is what he believes. >> it could have been the japanese that bombed pearl harbor. it could have been. what do you make of that? i think years from now historians or archaeologists when they try to figure out these tapes, who's this 400-pound person on a bed somewhere? what is he talking about? >> it's vladimir putin in a fat suit. but you know, here's the -- i think if you were looking at the mysteries of donald trump the biggest mystery is why has from the start, he's had this odd attitude toward russia, that he won't criticize krish russia, he praises vladimir putin, that he is delighted when vladimir putin praises him. it's not like it's the leader of great britain or germany, one of our allies. it's one our biggest adversaries. and i think that is an answer to a question that we don't know yet. why this persistent effort to excuse russia or praise russia or -- >> i think part of that answer is transactional. it is a transactional relationship that has been well established now, that has gone

back a good number of years. his sons have come out and admitted to it. how they get their golf courses built. well, the russians finance it. the big projects he wanted to get done. the beauty pageants. all of that is a very transactional relationship that donald trump has established. and i think that's the underbelly of this whole thing for him. because he's not just thinking about right now. he's thinking about what he wants to do when he leaves the white house. his business interests. his brand. and the last thing he wants to do if he still wants to get that hotel, that trump moscow built, is have the guy who could kill it pissed off. >> go ahead. >> i also think that's why so many folks, at least here in washington, are really watching the mule ore investigation as it relates to deutsch bank because we know that deutsch bank is the one that has lent the trump administration, the business, a lot of money. and it will be interesting -- >> they gave money to jared for his operation. >> and also to the trump organization. to the business. and that is why when the mueller investigation is actually

subpoenaing them i think that's one of the reasons people are -- >> go ahead, maria. you've got the hot hand. tell me how you connect that to refusing to acknowledge the russian meddling. all those meetings about, well, they're dumping all the bad stuff about hillary clinton, wris obviously helping trump. he's talking relief on the sanctions helping them. is that the big quid pro quo or something to do with what michael said, a deeper personal relationship where this whole presidential campaign has been tainted by something of a business enterprise going on all through it for later years? >> i think it's two. i think one is definitely his business enterprise, that basically he recognizes that nothing happens in russia without putin's approval, but also the fact that donald jr. met with the russians in that hotel room about repealing the sanctions. that sanction act specifically is what gives putin power because it's what basically allows his cronies to come into the united states and launder

money. without that he does not have power within the russia oligarchy and that's why repealing that sanction is so important. >> that's right in the middle of what we're trying to figure out, the business, criminality, clep tok rah cy and the whole works. ever since the specter of kremlin interference first arose in the summer of 2016 the president and his allies have repeatedly and adamantly denied any collusion, communication or coordination with russia took place. let's watch some of those denials. >> so they're investigatinging? that never happened. there was no collusion between us and russia. >> there is no collusion. you know why? because i don't speak to russians. >> i did not collude with russia. nor do i know of anyone else in the campaign who did so. >> the suggestion that i participated in any collusion is an appalling and detestable lie. >> i would certainly say don jr. did not collude with anybody to influence the election. >> so no collusion whatsoever? nobody involved with trump and anybody involved with russia in

the 2016 campaign. >> no. >> did any adviser or anyone anybody in the trump campaign have any contact with the russians who were trying to meddle in the election? >> oh, of course not. >> paul, let's go back to this question of russia and hacking. can you tell us what you know about the relationship and what the campaign knows and what donald trump believes? >> we have no relationship. >> so what's the explanation? mike, you lead off. what's the explanation for complete stonewalling here saying no, no, no, no, no, i won't give an inch? is that trump's character, his personality, that doesn't give on anything? >> it's a lot of that. he does not like to cede any ground on any issue. because in his mindset he's right wherever he is, he's right. but for me this has always been -- i always thought the collusion argument was a rabbit hole. it was something that people just kind of went down and got lost in and it was easy for trump to push back on the collusion thing because how do you prove, it where does it show

up? for me it's always obstruction of justice. the whole thing -- >> what's he hiding from? >> well, that's what mueller's got his fingertip on right now, which is why you see the nervous nellies around the white house. because when you start having flynn, papadopoulos and others start to go down, manafort, who's starting to sing a little bit, talk a little bit, fill out the scenario -- >> let's try something. >> what's that? >> jared kushnertion one of the people that's been figured as one of the people giving orders to flynn to go talk to the russians. your son-in-law. you know. let's just speculate here. was one of the people giving the orders about what to talk to the russians about. that's bringing you in. >> and i think they've had a two-part defense. one is deny everything, even if you have to later make concessions that you didn't report, for instance, contacts with russia. the other is to muddy up the waters by people who are going to come out with the reports. the mueller investigation, congressional investigations if necessary and the news media. >> what's more likely as we get to the end of the year here, pardons of the people he cares about like his son-in-law jared kushner or firing mueller?

are they both causing big trouble? >> i think they both cause him a problem, personally. >> the republican party, your party, will they break with him in any sizable percentage if he does one of those two things? >> i think it will be a real breaking point, particularly in the senate. i think that would be a real breaking point on both of those fronts. starting to pardon people like flynn. >> this could be the test of greatness or lack of it -- >> i actually think he's more concerned, the republican party would be more concerned with mueller and with the pardons they're going to be much more thoughtful because they want to make sure they don't take that away from future presidents as well. >> coming up, 2017 will be remembered as the year the country went through a reckoning on issues of sexual misconduct. many high-profile men accused of misconduct, lost their positions of power. we all know those stories. but one notably did not lose his position of power. his name's donald trump. and that's ahead. and this is "hardball," where the action is. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it?

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women are very special. i think it's a very special time because a lot of things are coming out and i think that's good for our society and i think it's very, very good for women. and i'm very happy a lot of these things are coming out. and i'm very happy -- i'm very

happy it's being exposed. >> that was incredible. president trump on the other big story of 2017 as the country grappled with a national reckoning on sexual misconduct by powerful men like him. "time" magazine named the silence breakers, the women who spoke out about sexual assault and harassment, as their person of the year. what started in october with a big "new york times" report on multiple allegations of sexual assault and harassment against hollywood mogul -- or former mogul harvey weinstein quickly spread as charges of sexual misconduct took down high-profile men in politics and public life generally. the issue came to define, by the way, the alabama senate race after the "washington post" reported on multiple allegations against republican senate candidate roy moore involving teenage girls. one said he molested her when she was just 14 years old. charges moore denied. here goes. >> we've been intimidated. other people have been intimidated. and we're tired of it. the "washington post" put out

this terrible, disgusting article saying i had done something. and i want you to understand something. they said these women, two, had not come forward for nearly 40 years. but they waited till 30 days before this general election to come forward. actions are going to speak louder than words. >> it's a referendum not just on the issues that we've got but it's who we are and what we're going to tell our daughters, and is alabama going to stand with our daughters and our granddaughters that we will believe them, we will respect them no matter when they come forward? >> on capitol hill minnesota democratic senator al franken resigned after multiple accusations of inappropriate sexual behavior led more than 30 of his democratic colleagues to call on him to leave the senate. >> i will be resigning as member of the united states senate.

i of all people are aware there is some irony in the fact that i am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the oval office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the senate with the full support of his party. >> well, alabama voters ultimately rejected roy moore. the me too movement and trump's support of moore revived attention about allegations against the president himself. >> women who accuse anyone should be heard. they should be heard and they should be dealt with. and i think we heard from them prior to the election and i think any woman who has felt violated or felt mistreated in any way, they have every right to speak up. >> it became apparent that in some areas the accusations of

sexual aggression were being taken seriously and people were being held accountable, except for our president. and he was not being held accountable. >> i ask that congress put aside their party affiliations and investigate mr. trump's history of sexual misconduct. >> well, trump has denied the allegations against him, all of them, but some democratic senators have called on trump to resign over these accusations. that includes new york democrat kirsten gillibrand. trump lashed out against her in what i might call a sexually suggestive tweet saying the senator begged to his office, begged him for campaign contributions, said she'd do anything to get his money. well, we're back with our panel, susan page, maria teresa kumar, and michael steele. i think the president has gotten off on this. and i think for whatever reason the people that like him, the 30-some percent that like him, don't seem to put this into their thaed at all. name one person who likes trump except for this. maria. >> i think that -- >> who's out there saying if it weren't for that misbehavior

with women and that "access hollywood" bragging thing and for this awful thing he said about kirsten gillibrand coming and begging for his money i'd like him? nobody seems to care. why is it that this isn't grabbing on him the way it grabbed onto all the other people that have been accused? >> because i think that he, what he's been able to do is sow such division within the country that they'd rather see him win on everything else. and i have to say that even though doug jones won 48% of republicans still went out and voted for roger moore. still won -- >> roy moore. >> excuse me, roy moore. and i think what we're seeing, and this is the question we have to ask ourselves, is the me too movement more powerful than partisanship? because what happened in this past election was it was not. we have to see what happens -- >> the me too movement helped doug jones, didn't it? >> it did because you got a flurry of much more people coming out and voting than they do historically in midterm

elections. but you still had -- >> look at the women's shift. it was significant down there. >> we did a poll, we asked if you agreed with the candidate but he faced a credible allegation of sexual misconduct, would you be less likely to vote for him? more than 8 out of 10 democrats said they'd be less likely. but 2/36 republicans said they'd be less likely. i think this is clearly a bipartisan movement, and i think this is a movement that owes -- >> how come it didn't work with clinton? kathleen woolley, all those accusations were credible. anita broderick. credible and ghastly accusations. and all i heard was move on, moveon.org, that's all i heard during that period. >> i think there have been two huge cultural shifts in the last few years. one was on gay marriage. and the one we've seen just this year is on believing women who accuse powerful men. and i think we have donald trump to thank for that because he got elected -- >> how about harvey weinstein? >> no, i think donald trump changed the landscape and made people much more willing to say we've gots to listen to these women who are -- >> would there have been a

discussion about al franken or any of these guys, would there be a discussion if it weren't for the weinstein disclosure that came out? >> i think the weinstein disclosure sort of catapulted the discussion forward. i think what happened going back to the 2016 cycle was when this came out, that "access hollywood" tape hit, there were a whole bunch of other things that distracted the way the conversation could go. you were still dealing clinton, and this. and people had a chance to step back and in that stepping back weinstein happens and it's like refocus the conversation. that's the president's problem going forward because these women now have a second bite at that apple. you didn't pay attention to what we said in 2016, now can we replay the stair for you so you understand exactly what we're talking about? and the difference between now and then is the american people are willing to listen. >> let me try something by maria. i had i the hardest thing for a woman to come out is to deal

with some big bully, a guy who would make a point of ruining your life. who would track you down. weinstein. everything we knew about him is he'd go around, he'd buy off people, go after them, ruin their careers, whatever. to take on that bully, that to me was the big one. that was taking on goliath. if you could take him on, who's known for retribution and for being all powerful, you don't get any more movie parts, you don't get any more jobs, and worse than that you're blacklisted basically. that thing to me really seemed to be if you can beat that big bully don't worry about the other guys. >> i think that's exactly right. women became emboldened and they said this is actually something that's powerful. and what i think is important is m men are having these conversations as well. >> tell me about that. >> men are having these conversations. they're looking in, the majority of folks that have been reporting on this -- >> or taking cover. >> no, but the majority of folks that have broken these stories have been men. and i'm thinking of obviously farrow right now, but he and the

others have taken the lead. my question is if this is what's happening at the highest levels of power what are women in the service industry who can't have the power, who cannot decide to go and not work because of minimum wage, what are they facing and how do we make sure that we are creating policy to make sure they're safeguarded zblsh let's hope the labor unions are doing their part. go to the shop steward, go to the business manager, those people for help. that's why you're in the union, collective strength. anyway, up next, 2017 was also a year in which president trump injected himself into hot-button issues involving race. we're going to take a look at everything from his comments on charlottesville to his war with the nfl players. this is "hardball," where the action is. ...you could learn you're from ireland... ...donegal, ireland... ...and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes. just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com

welcome back to "hardball." president trump inserted himself into multiple culture wars this year that eclipsed the national conversation, ranging from charlottesville to the nfl players to gold star families. when a 32-year-old woman died while protesting the white supremacist groups marching on charlottesville, which included of course the kkk, neo-nazis and members of the alt-right, the president didn't outright condemn the groups. let's watch him. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides. on many sides. >> i'm not sure "on many sides" was written in that script. anyway, he changed his tune a

few days later after his remarks raised questions over yes was drawing a moral equivalence between the supremacists, the white supremacists and the counterprotesters demonstrating against them. les let's listen to his most scripted remarks. >> racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the kkk, neo-nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as americans. >> but just one day later the president doubled down on his original claim that both sides were to claim and claimed that some of the white supremacists were, love this phrase, fine people. >> you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. i think there's blame on both sides, and i have no doubt about it and you don't have any doubt about it either. >> only the nazis -- >> and if you reported it accurately, you would say.

>> back with our panel. this was a -- what is it you used to say, an unearned foul in sports. why did he dig into this? who was he gaining from here? >> well, i think it reflects his actual point of view. >> unforced error. >> unforced error. self-inflicted wound. and i also think when we were trying to figure out how trump got elected against all odds we looked a lot at economic pressures on some american voters. but the fact is cultural discomfort with an increasingly diverse society, one that allows gay marriage and transgender bathrooms and all that, i think that was a big force behind the voters who went to trump, and that is part of -- that is a card he continues to play in keeping the support of his base, voters as president. >> a lot of people are not comfortable with the changes going on. too many too fast for a lot of people. and they also thought the democrats were a little too frisky about it. they seem to want all these changes, they want more and more and more.

and the people said enough, slow this train. i'm sure that's one reason why even in the burbs people voted. >> well, on race as i've looked at it and sort of absorbed a lot of this, particularly the charlottesville period between that saturday and tuesday, what i saw the president do effectively and what he did throughout the campaign was pick at the scab of race. picked at it, picked at it, picked at it until it became a wound again. the healing process that had begun in the '50s and '60s with the marches, the great speeches by king, certainly involving the assassination of leaders, all of that came flashing back for a lot of people, and now you saw young men in their early 20s and teens in nicely tailored suits, not hoods, you know, not with torches but with tiki torches out saying and protesting and claiming the same thing around issues of race that our parents and grandparents had to deal with, and that for a lot of

people was just very unsettling. and the one person you go to in that moment as we have, we turn to reagan, we turn to johnson. we turn to our presidents to sort of help us process and deal with this. he was the man who was picking at the scab. >> he was going the wrong way. >> he was going the wrong way. >> what do you make of the fact that roy moore, the recent candidate for senator from alabama, saying he liked it back when the families were united -- >> oh, yeah. >> -- during slavery. the one thing everybody knows about black families is the way the money business of slavery worked su sold -- if this kid's big and strong send him to the guy out in oklahoma somewhere. this guy's weak, make him work somewhere -- but they divided up the families like they weren't even a family. there was no unity of family. i'm talking about the slave trade. how awful it was. >> and at a bigger level, and i don't want to get too much into it, there's a problem right now where you actually have school books that actually want to sanitize the history of the united states. and texts in particular, they want to basically say that slavery was actually -- was actually an economic gain for the folks that were involved in

it. that is not true. >> you mean the slaves? >> yeah, they benefited. >> they benefited because they had free food, they had a roof over their head. i've heard this. >> this is like the original american plan. three squares a day with your -- unfortunately, somebody's whipping you and you're in shackles and the boss is having sex with your daughter. >> right. >> or your wife because he feels like it. >> they're trying to delegitimize the actual american experience. but the bigger problem i would say with the republican party is he is basically betting on that brand to continue getting him elected. but how are they going to basically rise from this if he's continuously polarizing the american people along race? and that is going to be very -- >> the suburban voter is embarrassed by this. they may have left the city as part of white flight a generation ago. they're embarrassed by racism. they may not be any better than anybody else, but they're embarrassed by it. and they're not going to vote for a president they believe is a race guy. >> even after sharlts shil you

had tillerson go out, you had mattis tell the troops hold the line because things are bananas at home. tells you not everyone in his cabinet is believing it back home even republicans -- >> doesn't believe what, maria? >> they don't believe the divisiveness the president is propagating when it comes to race. >> they don't support it. >> they don't support it. >> i hope not. >> the suburbs re increasingly diverse. the suburbs are not -- >> the near suburbs especially. >> demography is -- >> the bromt liottom line is we sanitize race. and that's something that has to change in order to effectively deal with it. >> that conversation will not be led by mr. trump. um next, trump may be head of the republican party but he's not without his critics. it's been a year of fierce battles with fellow members of the gop. you're warble "hardball." strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection, which could lead to hospitalizations. in a key study, neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17% to 1%, a 94% decrease.

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hi. i'm richard lui in the msnbc newsroom. officials say a tragic fire in the bronx last night that led to the deaths of 12 people started when a 3-year-old turned on a stove burner. puerto rico authorities say nearly half the island's power

customers are still without electricity. nearly three months after hurricane maria. the governor has requested up to 1,500 additional electrical workers. and former beatle ringo starr is being awarded a knighthood by britain's queen elizabeth. the 77-year-old drummer will be recognized in a ceremony at buckingham palace. now back to "hardball." no president, democrat or republican, in recent memory has exhibited the kind of behavior that this president has. and is i -- you know, i am a republican, i'm a conservative, i would love to have a republican president. but not at any cost. >> it's obvious his political model and governing model is to divide. and he has not risen to the occasion. i think the worst is going to be the whole debasing of our

nation. >> welcome back to "hardball." those are republican senators warning about the threat posed by donald trump. it can't be more clear than that. trump responded of course with his own attacks. he called senator corker a lightweight, and incompetent, neither of which i think are true. and someone who couldn't get elected dog catcher in tennessee. he's been elected senator a few times. and theerz what he said about senator jeff flake. >> he came out with his horrible book, and i said who is this guy? the first time i saw him on television i said -- i assumed he's a democrat. is he a democrat? they said he's a republican. i said that's impossible. so look, his poll numbers are terrible. he's done terribly for the great people of arizona, a state that likes donald trump very much as you -- even you will admit. and he would have never won. >> the republican party has never been so divided. certainly not in the television age. senators openly defy their party's heart now. the president backed a senate candidate in alabama accused of mistreating teenage girls against the will of nearly every

republican in washington. he battled a sick war hero, john mccain. he reportedly fought to keep mitt romney, out of the senate. and he mocked mitch mcconnell with more venom than he showed democrats. what's going on in the gop? susan, i think it's very interesting and the question i lay to you, is there still a non-trump republican party? >> no. i think what's interesting is the republican party is deeply divided. it's really fractured. and yet the only people willing to actually directly take on trump are people who do not plan to run for re-election, like senator flake and senator corker. this is the party of senator trump. they are tied to him and i don't think there's any getting away from it. >> why, michael? >> i ask that question. >> why are they in bed to trump to the point they won't even wink at someone and say i don't like this guy? >> because, the real bottom line here is when they go back to their congressional districts and they look at their states, they see that a significant portion of that base republican vote is still with the president. so that 32%, 33% is made up of

largely 75% or 80% of the republican party. and that, as long as that number is where it is, you're not going to see the kind of movement away from the president that people talk to you and all of us about in the shadows of washington. with the low whispers and the rolled eyes. you'll get more of that next year as the campaign for 2018 heats up and they start looking at their poll numbers and they realize it's either me or him. and the reality for a lot of republicans is right now the him, the donald trump is winning in their districts and their back yards and they're caught in this hot spot. >> but i actually think what we're seeing in the republican party is really a reflection of two americas. and what i mean by that is the p established republican party has always been the party of small business -- big business and small government. the nationalist wipg, which right now is all about rural america. and rural america has been left behind. they're battling an opioid epidemic. they fear that trade and

globalization keeps them further behind. and their communities are changing rather quickly. and the republican party, the establishment, has not actually addressed that in any meaningful way. so what you're going to continue to see is this push-pull. and if you were to ask, all things being equal, let's forget what just happened in alabama, steve bannon and his wing of the party's going to continue to get stronger because he is part of a bigger apparatus of misinformation that the republican party, the established republican party has yet to figure out. they're playing by the old rules. >> let me try the suburbs, which i think is happening. i think the suburbs have been shifting not just in virginia but certainly in alabama. the suburbs gave trump his victory. we were all shocked by it. we thought the suburbs would be completely against him. they were with trump. i look at peter king, a classic. an irish guy. i know about this guy. he's from long island. he's outside new york. not rich suburbs. middle middle. and he took the hardest shot at steve bannon this week. he said he looked like a disheveled drunk. that's pretty strong. could it be that the suburban

guys, meehan, fitzpatrick, all these people around the country representing suburban congressional districts, are at least willing to take on bannon and bannonism if not trump? >> yes. and they're in a better position to do so because they're less at risk of getting knocked off by a bannon candidate in a primary. and the fact is if you look at the results -- >> i just love not being the smartest person on this show. you're always outsmarting me. that is so smart. because yeah, he doesn't -- the alt-right means nothing in the burbs. >> but if you look at not just alabama but also new jersey and virginia where we had elections recently all of them showed this kind of shift in the suburbs as college-educated whites and especially women. >> and they're embarrassed by trump. and they're afraid of bannon. they see bannonism as a ferocious loser. i think they see him as a guy that's going to bring their party down. >> that's exactly what he's trying to do. the fact again that he went to alabama so many times, even though trump was not supporting him more originally, he -- for

bannon nationalism is much more important and what we're seeing right now is a fight between -- usually it's between the north and the south of the republican party. right now it's actually rural and the elite. the urban. and that is a different -- that's actually a different calculation. >> here's trump ally steve bannon we've talked about, has spent the past year campaigning against leaders of the republican party, especially mitch mcconnell, and mcconnell's hit back. let's watch the two of them go at it. >> mitch mcconnell and this permanent political class is the most corrupt and incompetent group of individuals in this country. >> we are declaring war on the republican establishment that does not back the agenda that donald trump ran on and the president of the united states. >> there's a time and season for everything. and right now it's a season of war against a gop establishment. >> you have to nominate people who can actually win because winners make policy and losers go home. >> what he's a specialist in is nominating people who lose. >> you know, i look at the costuming of mr. steve bannon. i want to have my friend here,

who's very good at this -- first of all, he wears the army fatigue jacket. i don't think it's a barber jacket. i think it's army fatigues. he's sensing he's sort of a revolutionary. he's got that look. disheveled look. and then i shouldn't say it but the black shirt. but he did have it on. >> yeah. >> what do we make of all that? >> it's the common man thing. it's the rumpled clothing. it's the green fatigues or whatever. the black shirt -- i'm a bad guy. yeah. i'm the guy who's willing to be the bad guy for you. and all that -- >> i was thinking more of the '30s. >> all of that works. but here's the problem, is you know, going back to what maria said, this is something that's been going on inside the party since reagan left office. this internal frustration over what is conservatism versus what is republicanism. and what bannon and trump have been able to do is to come in and say that's not really important. what is important is what we say is important. and absent some clear definition of those two principles,

conservatism and republicanism, they've been able to come in, to go back to those folks who have been frustrated about the economy and their station in life, and sort of play that particular card. and as long as they're able to do that, they'll be successful. i think, though, they'll see next year candidates come up and begin to push back against that narrative because the party's future is on the line. >> i don't disagree but we are underestimating the power of misinformation. the fact that breitbart news right now is part of the official federal clippings that every federal agency receives should concern us. >> that's because of this government -- this administration. >> but that is seeding misinformation. and what they understand is that currency, by creating doubt in the american people that anything that the government is doing or that anything that might be true may be false, that is the -- that's unfortunately the game that the republican party or the democratic party has yet to figure out how to win. they're playing by a completely different set of rules, and for them it's not about 2018. they're here for the long haul, for the long game. >> let's talk about the long haul. you had the -- i have a sense that when i'm 90 years old i'm

going to be seeing mitch mcconnell as senate leader of the republican party, minority or majority. i'm going to see john cornyn waiting for his turn. this pecking order, there are like certain kinds of insects that survive all kinds of changes -- >> wow. >> i think they know how to do it. i think mitch mcconnell and roy blount, a bunch of these guys are stilled at re-election. they know how to save themselves politically. that's one great talent they have. and trump doesn't have that. trump could wear out -- he could be a sell by date by next month. we don't know how fast this thing's wearing out. >> mitch mcconnell's had this battle before. he had it in 2010 when the tea party rose up. managed to -- >> who outlasts who? >> mitch mcconnell's the one with the history of surviving. >> i think that's exactly right. and i think what mcconnell understands is he plays long ball. trump thinks he plays long ball. >> this is again -- we're not playing by their rules. for bannon trump is just a vehicle of his nationalist agenda. so it doesn't matter if he expires in three years.

>> you expect bannon to run as a third-party candidate. >> not him. >> not bannon. >> i think he might try. he looks like he's running. he looks like a european right-wing candidate is what he looks like. anti-immigrant candidate. up next our panel stays with us and when we come back, come bac predictions for 2018. predictions to talk about all through next year. you're watching hardball. i'm not really "there." talk to your doctor, and call 844-234-2424. when it comes to travel, i sweat the details. late checkout... ...down-alternative pillows... ...and of course, price. tripadvisor helps you book a... ...hotel without breaking a sweat. because we now instantly... ...search over 200 booking sites ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. don't sweat your booking. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.

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lots on the line here for 2018. your prediction, susan. >> it will be the year of women on steroids. it will help change some of the fundamental ways if which congress operates. >> big women will be like -- >> more than 92. >> on steroids. >> i agree with that and because i agree with that i have to say this, the house ain't going to be there no more. they have torn up the floor boards and the house will fall. >> how about the senate. >> the senate is a little bit closer i think because they have more in play on the democratic side. the senate is now in play. >> i agree. i think it is going to go through the heart of the community. i think that what we saw in vir

and what we saw in alabama is the fierce vote of young people coming out and fierce vote of people of color. for a long time we talk about the emerging priority. >> i think they take a comprehensive immigration bill, send its to the senate and jam them on it. >> i want to thank our panel who made news tonight. we'll be right back after this.

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on our final show of the year i would like do thank all of the people that bring hardball to you night after night. i know how truly valuable they all are. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. have a very happy new year. ♪

look at chicago. what the hell is going on in chicago? >> i don't know what they are doing. >> what the hell is going on in chicago? >> this is the story of america's third largest shooting and how it became a punching bag for a president. >> vote for donald trump. i will fix it. >> for the next hour our special report on the cycle of violence and trauma in the city of chicago. >> i know i have ptsd. it's just off the charts. >> trying to understand the causes. >>