that wraps up this hour of msnbc live. i'm phillip mena. time now for "am joy." gong. welcome. with just one day left in the year the news on russiagate just keeps on coming. on thursday, "the new york times" caught up with donald trump in the grill room at his golf course for a 30-minute interview that covered a range of topics including one he's really committed to, his talking point that he didn't collude with russia. because he said the phrase no collusion 16 times in the

interview. and when it comes to special counsel bob mueller and his russia investigation, trump repeatedly gave some version of this quote. it doesn't bother me, because, i hope he's going to be fair. i think he's going to be fair. it's a tonal shift for trump, until now, has been clearly been bothered enough to join his ally of questioning the fbi. but perhaps, trump's new attitude comes from the comfort he takes in this statement he gave about his authority over the department running the investigation. quote, i have absolute right to do what i want to do with the justice department. joining me now are msnbc contributor malcolm nance and washington post opinion writer jennifer rubin and richard paint paint painter. thank you all for being here. i want to go to -- so, i just

read what president trump said in that interview with "the new york times." now, about the justice department. let's take a look at what eric holder, the former attorney general of the united states under president obama had to say on twitter in response. and he sent out this twitter, oh, about 16 hours or so again. wrong, dangerous. trump doesn't have absolute rights with doj. but women and men there have absolute duty to follow constitution and rule of law. richard painter, i have to come to you on this. love your reaction to the president and the former attorney general in response. >> well, he confuses the powers that he has as president with what he has a legal right to do. he has the power to decide whether to sign or veto a bill. but if he accepts $100,000 bribe to sign or veto a bill he goes

to prison. for bribery. he has no right to do that. even though he has the power to decide. he has the power whether to fire the attorney general or not. or the deputy attorney general. that's his power. but he does not have the right to do so in order to on strubt justice. he doesn't have the right to fire attorney general sessions or pressure attorney general sessions to fire robert mueller if his intent is to obstruct justice, to stop the russian investigation. the bottom line is, he doesn't have the right to do whatever he wants with the justice department. he must abide by the laws and the constitution of the united states. >> jennifer, where are republicans, republicans in general and especially republicans on capitol hill, congressional republicans, to this statement by the president of the united states, that he

has absolute authority over the doj? i thought the republican party was supposed to be the party of law and order. >> oh, that's the old republican party. you got to stay kurcurrent. right now, they're hiding under their desks. these are not people who are going to step out and say to the president, listen, that's a totally inappropriate statement. we are a country of laws, not of men. i would be shocked if one of them summoned up the curraj our about this. if the president goes to step of actually firing mueller or actually beginning to pardon people, are the republicans going to do anything about it? that's the issue for 2018 and the voter. everyone has to ask their representative or senator, if you find, if the special prosecutor impeachable information are you going to act on it? i don't think these republicans

will, frankly. >> and i think you're right. a congressman from florida on wednesday said this on fox news about replacing the leadership in the fbi. take a listen. >> if there's bias there, what are you going to do about it, demand a special counsel, demand some type of cleanout of the fbi, what's the option sfs. >> i think potentially all the above. if there was an abuse of power criminal in nature that could cry out a special counsel. i think these there needs to be a overhaul of the senior leadership. >> this idea of purging folks from the fbi, people involved in this investigation, that's incredible. again, back to my question about law ard order with respect to the rule of law. >> well, you know, it's incredible. because i don't think they are

very aware that what they're doing is actually taking a step towards obstruction of justice by saying they want to stop this investigation through purging the fbi of senior management. by taking the bureau and re-engineering it so it's more for the white house itself. jim jordan came forward about a week ago with a very strong statement that the fbi should be eliminated in order to stop, in essence, in order to stop investigations into president trump. that could bring them under scrutiny under this special counsel. >> malcolm, let me ask you one more thing, and mcclatchy had a story, jailed russian said he had hacked dnc on kremlin orders and can prove it. do you any more about this and how significant is this in the overall russia story?

>> i take that with a grain of salt. i don't think it's as significant as they mhave made t out to be. this operation wasn't one individual. the malware suite was known to belong to russian intelligence, these are not types of operations you can do with one or two people. my estimate was 300,000 people would have to be involved in the 24/7, 365-type information of w warfare operation they were performing. we know that they were hiring subcontractors in st. petersburg and moscow to carry out individual act. it's quite possibly he was one of them. >> what do you make of that story? >> i agree with malcolm.

i think -- malcolm wrote a great book on this. this was a russia intelligence. the russians were scared. the goal here was to conduct an operation but to do so without escalation. as a result, they didn't use people directly tied to the russian government. the woman who met with don junior, they weren't actually russian officials. that tells me to have plausible deaniability. this is small part of a larger operation. the russian people involved, russian government officials we have had anyone directly named with this. >> in this overall investigation into russia, richard painter, michael isikoff reports in yahoo! news on wednesday a story

on trump lawyers pressuring mueller to end the investigation. the president's lawyers are pressing mueller to wind down the investigation and exonerate their client, which they have assured the president will happen by early next year. what i find very interesting about that -- is is that i thought this was supposed to be wrapped up by thanksgiving. didn't that say that once before? >> that's bob mueller's decision. he's going to go as efficiently and as quickly as he can but he's a professional prosecutor. and he is committed to finding out the truth. he's not going to go on the timetable set by the president's lawyers. and mr. dodd, in particular, who's always shooting his mouth off about the president's powers incorrectly and he sent out incriminating tweets on his

cliebt. the president's lawyers are just making this thing worse, the president is making it worse. they ought to let robert mueller do his job. the same with the members of congress. they're complaining about robert mueller, we whether they're getting campaign contributions from dual nationals. the members of congress need to do their job. let bob mueller do his and we'll get to the bottom of what happened in 2016. >> malcolm, as richard painter was speaking about russia contributions you were nodding your head and you were saying, mm-hmm. go ahead. >> there is a lot of things that we're learning now, this almost complete cooperation of this republican party not just by donald trump. it's the backgrounds that we're

finding on some of these congressmen and senators who also are not just, you know, receiving input and benefits from russia themselves through, you know, through their information warfare operation, twitter and facebook. but we're finding that many of these people had been very close to organizations that had gone to russia, the nra for example, are sort of -- i don't want to use the word fifth column but i have done it. who are acting as defenders of donald trump and by extension, russia because anything bad for russia is bad for trump and therefore they defend them both. absolutely astounding as jennifer said. this isn't your dad's republican party. a story our paper, washington post, about how trump's legal team is preparing to throw michael flynn under the bus if he gets the too close to

the president. we don't have time to play all the times the president said michael flynn was a good man and how wonderful he was. around the table, will -- if the president does try to throw michael flynn under the bus, starting with jennifer, will he succeed given everything we k w know? >> it's common defense tactic as you know to impugn the integrity of someone who made the deal with fbi. i think there's probably no one statement that robert mueller is going to hang his hat on. therefore, painting michael flynn as simply a liar, therefore i get to go free is really not going to work. mueller is putting together a carefully knitted case. >> very quickly, look, we have a russian investigation. bob mueller is going to be looking at things like tax returns. donald trump better hope

separate than russia that there's no prior criminal activity he's involved in. this will come down to charges that goes beyond that. >> thank you. stay right there. up next, the main items trump wants congress to work on next year and what will actually pass. [lance] monica, it is absolute chaos out here! gale force winds, accumulations up to 8 inches... ...don't know if you can hear me, but [monica] what's he doing? [lance] can we get a shot of this cold front, right here. winter has arrived. whooo! hahaha [vo] progress is an unstoppable force. brace yourself for the season of audi sales event. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event.

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i could have started with infrastructure. i actually wanted to save the easy one for the one down the road. so, we'll be having that done pretty quickly. >> big item. >> we have to address entitlements otherwise we can't get our handle on the future debt. >> what will republicans tackle in 2018? well, the three most powerful republicans in america don't seem to believe. looming over this debate is daca, shielded d.r.e.a.m.ers from deportation. the democrats have been told and fully understand that there can be daca without the desperately needed wall at the southern border and an tend the horrible chain my dprags and ridiculous

lottery system of immigration, et cetera, we must protect our country at all cost! president trump. joining me now is david jolley, raul reyes. what's the president talking about? >> well, jonathan, i don't know. i wish i knew. i mean the guy is so -- anyway. we're ending 2017. 2018 is another whole thing. so, look, i think donald trump doesn't really care about the country or people. he only cares about himself. all he sees wins or loses for him. and what we saw this year, really, was about how he is going to undo everything that obama did during his presidency? historic presidency that he did. that's all it is for him and i think they're going to have a difficult time next year, republicans, because not only do they have a very historically

unpopular president, they have this bill, this gop tax plan that they passed that was also historically unpopular. they have to sell that next year while the midterm is going on. incredibly difficult messaging to move forward with. >> guys, in reading the president's interview, what strike me when he was talking about the lottery system is that he doesn't understand the lottery system. he makes it sound like other countries put names in a hat and they pick them out and they say, here, you get to go to the united states that's not how it works. >> i don't think the president has a relationship with a visa selectee. they have appreciation of what we stand for. his attack on the lottery system is part of a very con view late

ed immigration policy. >> raul, will democrats when they sit and meet, house speaker paul ryan, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, nancy pelosi and chuck schumer are all going to meet in the beginning of the year and talk about a whole lot of things. daca's going to be part of it. will they come up with some kind of fix that allows dac asha to saved and allows democrats vote for a plan that doesn't enrage the democrats' base. >> with the president's tweets he's made that so much harder. the demands for a border wall only his base wants, 3 in 10 americans want this border wall. by putting in those demands and end to chain my frags and the diversity lottery -- those

almost are considered poison pills. the diversity lottery that's only 50,000 people a year. when he talks about chain migration, that's basically family unity which has been the guiding principal of our immigration system since 1965. remember when it was the republican party, we're not against immigration, we're only against illegal immigration. now he's shifted to a extreme right position. >> daca is a big challenge for republicans. dirty little secret republicans don't want to fix it. listen, i wear those scarfs. i said when are we going to do comprehensive immigration reform. we said at the time president

obama doesn't have executive authority about it and i got duped as a republican. because i believe we were going to do it as a republican. the fact is, the republican base does not want it. >> so, then, to my mind that says a daca fix is not going to happen given your experience. >> no, look at those solid red districts. they don't want a daca fix. >> corinne, the president in his interview with "the new york times." he said the democrats should come to him. i'll read part of that illuminating transcript. they should have come to infrastructure, they should come to me which they have come to me on daca and we are working. we're trying to do something about it. and they should definitely come to me on health care. >> first of all, he doesn't care

about health care. he only cares about taking it away from people. that's a lie. with daca and also c.h.i.p., he can't play with lives here. children's lives. this is something that needs to happen. we can't let time continue to go on in january without figuring out how we're going to have a clean d.r.e.a.m. act with our wall that's put into it and get that done and also reauthorize c.h.i.p. that's something that the democrats have to use every tool in their tool bet belt to make that happen. i think it's insane we still haven't done any of those things and young people are trying to figure out what they're going to do next and parents dealing with their children's illness. so, we have to move forward. we're talking about two things here that have bipartisan support. and it's incredibly popular with the public, so this is an easy

one. republicans have the house and they have the senate. they have the majority. it's on them and democrats have to be able to use every tool that they can to make this happen. >> raul? >> david and i were talking earlier. we were talking about how in this first year, trump has missed opportunities, on infrastructure, if he tried this he may have could have gotten democrat support. if he was interested he could get bipartisan support is on some type of massive bill for puerto rico. in "the new york times" today, half the country still lacks power and water. these are our fellow americans. they've been suffering since september. if the president came forward with a bill aufrlg relief, more aid, maybe changing the jones act for the island, what

democrats are not going to support that. he's in florida. he doesn't care about puerto rico. since he gave himself a 10 for his efforts and threw paper towels at people. >> and david, i want to add to what raul just said. the president said he thinks infrastructure is easy. so easy to do and how many times, correct me wrong, there's like three infrastructure weeks. >> comey got fired. >> right the problem with infrastructure is how do they spend for it? >> john delaney, a democrat running for congress. he led on an infrastructure bill. that repatiriat eshe the base.

instead they gave further corporate tax cuts. >> they're not going to do it and with it being a midterm election year coming up, traditionally no matter who the president is and who's in congress everything grinds to a halt the closer we go to november. thank you both very much. thank you, david jolley, thank you. raul and corinne will be back up next, controlling congress. both parties already focusing on the midterms. a look at everything you need to know about next year's elections. it's time for sleep number's 'lowest

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sad news this morning, we've learned that 27-year-old activist erica garner died earlier today in brooklyn. the daughter of eric garner who died after a new york police officer placed him on a choke hold on staten island in 2014. since then, erica garner had a sustained commitment to activism. she was hospitalized since going into cardiac arrest on christmas eve.

her heart was bigger than the world. we'll be right back.

no one has had a good midterm since 2002. whistling past the political graveyard if you're going to escape that challenging environment. >> congressman tom cole reminded us that the sitting president's

party always suffer in midterm. the 2018 election is still months away. what can republicans to erode the democrats' edge and what can democrats to keep it? joining me now is katherine rampel and back with me is corinne. the atmosphere today, leading up to the 2018 midterm elections reminds me of the same atmosphere that the country had in the run-up to the 2006 election, when everybody was talking about how house could flip to democrat. not only did the house flip but the senate flipped. am i wrong here? >> no, history has the ability to repeat itself. in midterm you're going to take a shellacking it's just a matter

of how much. democrats filed a candidate, win, lose or draw, in everybody seat except 20. the republican party hasn't filed a candidate in democrat seat. if you can't win a seat you keep everybody busy. someone recruits them. talks to them. so, that tells me that the house to me is more in play than the senate. there are 25 incumbent democrat seats that they've got to spend money to keep and republicans have the edge there in being able to keep that body. so, with the toxicity out there, the partisan bickering, donald trump's low numbers, congressman cole is right, we're in for heavy sledding. it's more in our favor. we had redistricting in 2010. everybody calls it

gerryhandering. >> let's put up that ger gerryhandering graphic. more republican-leaning in the presidential race than the nation as a whole. democrats won 1 million more votes for the house than the gop in 2012 but didn't win control. in order for democrats to retake the house in 2018, they have to win 24 seats in the house, given that gerryhandering graphic that we just put up there, do you share his optimism that the democrats can indeed retake the house. >> jonathan the blue wave is coming. it is coming in 2018. all you have to do is look at what happened in 2017. the special elections we lost,

democrats lost, but you saw the energy and some of those candidates were able to wipe away like 20 points' advantage that the republicans had, i mean you saw that intensity very early on this year and then come to the second part of the year you have virginia, new jersey, and the basically the resistance being electoralize, it sets a tone for 2018 that's incredibly dangerous for republicans and also, i mean, just think about, the map for democrats was already difficult. but once we won alabama, a state that we had no business playing in and it hadn't had a democratic senator in 25 years and we won that by the way with black women coming up for doug jones, which is another kind of another story there. i don't see how republicans are going to, you know, hold on to the house and we'll see the

senate and like i said, earlier, now they have this bill, this awful gop tax plan bill that's historically unpopular they have to sell. a blue wave is coming and a blue wave is coming. do you agree, a blue wave is coming sf. >> i'm a little bit more skeptical. it's true on the generic ballots democrats are doing much better. but a generic ballot is different who's actually on the ballot. people's names, faces, who you're actually voting for. there are some things that could go wrong. the tax bill is historically unpopular. i don't think it's going to get more popular. however, there are few voters who are motivated by tax law in what they vote for, right, so, i'm not sure how big of a factor that will be going forward and there are at will of things that can change between now and 2018.

we don't know what republicans are going to do. lot of things that republicans could do going forward that could hurt their chances including going after entitlements. i worry about on the democratic side, if they pound on impeachment. a lot could change between now and 2018. i don't think democrats are a shoo-in. >> since you brought up impeachment, let's show the impeachment poll. democrats overwhelming, 70% say yes. republicans s90% say no. do you impeachment talk is something that could be debt detrimental for democrats in 2018? >> when president obama was president, it would have been about the same.

the partisan angst out there on the republican and the democrat sides is so toxic that none of that surprises me. one thing we talked about is donald trump positioning himself for 2020. with all the wishes and hopes of a democratic blue wave let me assure that donald trump is going to figure out how to run against whoever's in washington. one thing that's true, people hate washington, period. >> yes that is true. for the folks in the control room, let's go to element 8 and it's trump's job approval rating. it's an old poll but it's very instructive. this is from september, look at this number, among gop supporters, president's approval rating was 84%. now, for a republican and a republican sitting in the white house that's fantastic number. but the key number to look at is what trump's job approval rating is among the people who voted

for him? 99%. so, while congress might be in trouble in 2018, when it comes to voter enthusiasm and party base enthusiasm the president's got it. >> let me tell you what we found out, what they just mentioned in these elections we just had the special elections, especially with the seat in south carolina and the seat in georgia, what we found out, hard-core trump voters who haven't regular republican party voters are only going to show when donald trump's name on the ballot. you didn't see the trump bump we were looking for. especially a laura bush bump, she was very popular in our party. donald trump knows when he's on the ballot it's a whole different scenario. remember, he ran against the republicans to win the republican nomination. he can run against the

democrats. the mid terms will show you where donald trump is. i will contend donald trump is better off for re-election if democrats are in charge. >> he says that actually donald trump would be better off with a democratic-controlled congress, better off running for re-election with a democratic-controlled congress and he would win. >> otherwise, if we're in charge it's going to be us. >> corinne. >> i think he'll be looking at impeachment if he has a democratic congress. on impeachment you have a president that's skirting the rule of law, that doesn't believe in the constitution, that's doing a whole list of things that are incredibly problematic and it's not about the country at all. so, i think impeachment is the right call here. more than according to the poll

you said, more than 70% of democrats who are on board with that. i'm not sure how that's going to hurt us in 2018. look, guys, it's really simple. 2017, the intensity was not -- i'm not talking about polling, i'm talking about outcome, was not with republicans at all. it was with democrats, the resistance came out and it became electrifying. that's the truth. i'm not imagining this. i just -- i just don't see how 2018 is going to be any better for republicans, now i will say this, democrats do have to do the work they can't sit on their laurls. they have to make they invest in the communities, in particular black communities, latinos, millennials, they have to do the work. >> katherine, let me end with you, the president's job approval rating at this point in his term is the lowest -- i'm looking here real fast, we can

see it on the screen right now the lowest ever. at 37.7%. can it get any lower? and if it does any lower what does that say not just in terms of democrats' perspectives in 2018 but for trump's 2020? >> i would say a few different things. it looks trump's approval rating while abysmal have basically stabilize over the last few months. astonishingly, despite scandal after scandal. so, they do seem to have stabilize. it's not clear what it take to go lower. the deck is stacked against him. it's all a hoax. >> all right, with that, we'll have to leave it there. thank you very much. corinne is sticking around. up next, your moral moment. it's time for sleep number's 'lowest

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you know, one of the things that don't understand we have signed more legislation than anybody, broke the record. >> that right there, what donald trump said brings to mind a

memorable line from luke skywalker in the latest installment in "star wars" franchise. every word you just said was wrong. trump is infact, according to - anything, trump is breaking records with his historic inaction. he has been successful in radically remaking the federal judiciary by filling the courts with an especially conservative group of judges. among the most worrisome is a nominee my next guest calls a product of the modern why supremacist machine. joining me now is bishop william barber. thank you very much for being here. >> good morning. how are you? >> i'm terrific. an honor to be on with you. tell us about thomas alvin far.

>> thomas alvin far is a lawyer in north carolina that everyone knows that's connected historically to the pioneer fund, which was a race baiting group that funded false scientific narratives. it was nazi inspired. it undergirded jessie helm's campaign. it was ugly. tom far has been at the center of voter suppression, racist redistricting plans, anti-lgbt rights, anti-public education. the question is not that trump nominated him, but that burr approved it. what i call the trumpettes. they knew all of these racist connections. they knew that far defended the worst voter suppression law since jim crow and lost. and yet they supported him.

why is that? what are their connections to the pioneer fund? what are their connections? we know that tom tillis was the speaker of the house when all of these racist laws were passed. now he's up for reelection. where are the white evangelicals? the scripture says hate evil and maintain justice in the court. far has been against justice and voting rights and civil rights. >> the moral authority here seems to have been eroded. it used to be that presidents, members of congress, particularly in the senate, would nominate people who could stand moral scrutiny, who reflects who we are as a nation, whether democrat, republican, liberal or conservative. what does it say to you about this particular political climate that someone with his background, with tom far's

background, that he should be nominated and possibly get a lifetime appointment to the federal judiciary? >> first of all, it's tremendously concerning for america. for instance, he's been nominated to a district that looks like the civil rights movement never happened. number two, they blocked two qualified black women to get to him. there's shauf nic there are times when people show you who they are, believe them. if you nominate this person -- and all of what i'm saying is known. it was known before we wrote the op ed. they knew this. it says there are people that are willing to put their

political lives above principle and they are content in joining trump and bannon on the deconstruction of the american democracy and the deconstruction of our justice system. we should be deeply concerned and we should fight this. this tom far was nominated before and didn't make it. but he lost on voter suppression, he lost the case on redistricting. the court said what he was defending was a form of surgical racism. and his reward is now to put him on a lifetime appointment where he can be a judge and facilitate his racist and white supremacist ideology. >> twice now in this interview you've asked the question where are the white evangelicals. it brings me back to when reverend dr. martin luther king, jr. during the civil rights movement and he asked the same questions. why do you think we are always

asking the question where are the white evangelicals when it comes to key moments in civil rights? >> first of all, because i'm an evangelical, so i believe white evangelical is borderline h heresy. secondly, because i know the history of where this stuff comes from, the spiritual mobilization that stood up against franklin deroosevelt th has deep pockets. it's the gospel of greed, not the gospel of grace. what the scripture talks about is how do we treat justice, how do we treat the poor. i challenge them, if you're going to be in the public square, be there for real or we're going to challenge you on your heresy of always standing on the wrong side of issues.

>> thank you very much. happy new year. >> thank you so much. god bless. coming up, the president's war with the media. what will change in 2018. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. i've always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free. it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. try super poligrip free. ♪

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the president can be a very difficult person to interview. he moves very quickly from one issue to the next, you know, jumping from tangent to tangent. he's difficult to interrupt. and the approach that i took to

the interview was to ask him questions and sort of get out of the way and try and let him talk and tell me what he was thinking about these important issues. i thought that was the best way that i could get as much information and insight into how he sees the world, how he sees his presidency. >> good morning and welcome back. there's an age old journalistic tactic when it comes to interviewing potentially difficult people. that is to sit and say nothing, allowing the interviewee to fill up that silence and reveal who they really are. you just heard michael schmitt of the "new york times" did just that when he scored a rare impromptu with donald trump on thursday, an interview that went on for 30 minutes with no aides or staffers present. the chat was wide ranging from robert mueller's investigation, which he says makes the u.s. look bad, to north korea, the tax bill and of course trump's

golf swing. though twitter erupted with criticism over the lack of pushback, the interview succeeded in revealing much of trump's psyche. his needs to insist 16 times there's been no collusion and his claim that he will win in 2020 because, quote, newspapers, televisions, all forms of media will tank if i'm not there because without me their ratings are going down the tubes. thank you all very much for being here. no collusion. i saw in two separate answers he said no collusion six times in each of those answers. let's go round robin and just get your quick reactions to the "new york times" interview overall. >> what's remarkable is that according to the "washington post" fact check, he lied 20

times in 30 minutes. this guy is just setting records. at this point they should just tell us what's truthful in interviews. i don't fault the reporter for not pushing back. he was getting gold. let trump speak and do fact check afterwards. >> i disagree. you have to ask him one uncomfortable question in 30 minutes. there wasn't one pointed question. this is not a normal president. this is not we sit down, we get an unfiltered view. we have his unfiltered view via twitter. what has been missing all year is any kind of accountability. so he's choked off all access to the press. when you get these rare opportunities, you can't just turn on the tape recorder. you can't just be a stenographer. you've got to have some accountability. he criticized barack obama for playing golf for three years,

said he was lazy. he's sitting with him at a golf club while trump has golfed 85 times this year. ask him one uncomfortable question, why are you a hypocrite. but i think it's all about access. they don't want to endanger it. >> i think with trump, he would have just gotten up and walked out of the interview if you asked him anything uncomfortable. instead of focusing on the journalism tactics, we should focus on how this is a case study for psychologists and psychiatrists around the world. i was reading this great line. this "new york times" article basically showed us how trump is not only in the early stages of dementia but he is a man in cognitive decline. that's what i found terrifying. >> the two things that really stood out to me was, one, the comment he made about the

mueller investigation. he hopes to be treated fairly. he's setting the stage for the the investigation shows anything but that, he's going to say he wasn't treated fairly. the second thing was that the line that the media should let him win in 2020, as if it's the media's job to pick the winner or loser. and pervasively putting forward this fake news narrative, making the media the enemy. i think the most destructive thing for the trump presidency in 2017 is this nonstop assault against the first amendment. it's unprecedented to have the president of the united states leading the charge against the media, against the news, against fact and truth. and that's going to be even worse in 2018. >> what's interesting about this "new york times" interview is not only did he grant the interview to the "new york times," gave the "new york times" 30 unfiltered minutes. but the fact that no aides were present. no one was present.

how -- as a reporter, that's fantastic. not only are you getting 30 minutes of unfiltered chief executive, but there's no aide to assist the president. incredible. >> obviously in his country club, they call it the winter white house. it's really an exclusive for profit country club. he felt very comfortable there. i think no one can control donald trump. his aides can't control him. this is the donald trump we want to see. to your point about pushing back, i think donald trump just would have lied. if the reporter said you said president obama played golf, he would have said, no, i'm working all the time. we get to see 30 minutes of lie after live. one said luther strange was in fifth place before he endorsed him. there was only three candidates. the delusional quality of trump

we got to see. >> the number of press conferences in the first year of a presidency, donald trump likes to say he's the greatest, the best, number one. in this case, he's number one as the one president who's only given one solo press conference in his first year. president obama did 11. president bush did five. president bill clinton did 12. it seems as though the president prefers either to talk to the american people through twitter or little fire side chat conversations with reporters who can get close enough to him in his literally gated community world. >> i think there are a few differences in really the environment that trump operates in than previous presidents. one, trump gets more coverage than any president in the history of mankind.

presidents before would have preferences in part to reset their agenda, to advance a policy initiative, to try to control the conversation because they were trying to get coverage. donald trump doesn't have that problem. two, he doesn't have to play by the seame rules because he has with social media the ability to reach tens of millions of people everybody day outside of any filter to talk directly to them to put out whatever spin he wants out there. for him it's a better bet. why would i talk to the fake news media when he can just talk directly to the american people and his following. all he cares about is his following, by the way. he doesn't care about the 70% of people who disagree with him. he cares about the core 30% that won't abandon him in any scenario. >> one of the things the president has called the media is, quote, enemy of the american

people. among the people who approve of president trump, 63% of those folks agree with him that the media are an enemy of the american people. >> i just think it's really important for us to focus on how dangerous this is, that we have the president of the united states attacking the free press in america. i was born and raised in bangladesh. my whole life america sent election monitors to make sure we were upholding democracy. press freedom was something they always called us out on and monitored. i just want to understand what the global ramifications is going to be for america's standing. how are we going to be able to call out other countries when the press comes under attack, if the president of the united states is attacking the american media. that's really terrifying. when he started calling us fake

news, i used to think that was so dumb. but now this phrase is to dangerous. we have seen fake news not only catch on internally b internati it's catching on. recently the american ambassador in the netherlands was caught in a lie and he referred to it as fake news. >> eric, let me come to you as the one person who vigorously pushed back on the way the "new york times" conducted that interview. what do you want the press to do better from your perspective in 2018 when it comes to covering this president? >> two simple things. stop interviewing trump voters and pretending they're the most important people in america, because we've done 100 of those. it doesn't matter. you know, stop assigning that story. stop interviewing all white

people in red counties and red states. go back to this interview. we're talking about this unprecedented attack on the press. the problem is the normalization. if barack obama had granted an interview in 2009, lied about the stimulus deal, lied about health care and unemployment, people wouldn't just sit there. allowing him to just lie and lie and lie, you normalize this stuff. again, he has that free filter on twitter. there has to be accountability. there has to be a backbone. you have to stand up. we are in a crisis. this is the frog in the boiling water. it's still kind of february/march coverage. gee, he's kind of unusual. we are so far beyond that. we are in a crisis and we've got to treat it like this. >> do you just call him a liar? >> no, no, no. >> we should call him a liar. the "washington post" said 24

lies in 30 minutes. we have to not allow this to be mainstream. that would be the most dangerous thing for our democracy ever. >> curt, i want you to jump in here and answer the question how do you think the press should go about covering president trump in 2018? do you think it should move away from eric says is normalizing this president and pushing back with every opportunity that they can? >> i think part of trump's calculus is that he's going to tire everybody out. around the holidays i had a chance to talk to a lot of family friends, all of whom were just thinking, god, i'm so tired of talking about donald trump. that sentiment is how he wins. i think 2018 has to be a year that we are doubly vigilant, doubly informed, looking to expand the conversation to include as many people as possible. i think ultimately the answer is with the american people. it's the people who watch this show who have to be engaged, who have to not give up, talk about this, not be afraid to share

what they're thinking. our power comes from the people, the people who watch these shows, who tweet about it on social media, who engage with us, who retweet us, who give us followings and platforms. it's got to start with the people being equally vigilant being staying engaged in the political process. >> what should the press do in 2018 or do better when it comes to covering president trump? >> drink lots of coffee. we need as much energy as possible. you know, it's a cat and mouse game with the president, because every time we catch onto something, he's the king of diversion and distraction. i think we definitely have to hold him to account. but also i think we should just start impeachment proceedings. how do we continue this? i think the election of donald trump really affected the american psyche. but the daily draining of having a president who's racist, sexist

and islamophobe, i'm exhausted. we can't let this man keep running the country without being held to account. >> i agree with one thing. he is aging us. look what he's done to me. i'm 23. the media is going to do what they want. it's more us, the resistance, we have to stay engaged. everyone watching us stay engaged. this is a huge year, 2018. midterm elections. i think it's up to us to change the narrative. the grassroots leads. >> the great service of that interview is we got to reads for ourselves in an unfiltered fashion what the president of

the united states thinks about a whole lot of things. the president talks a lot of lies. still ahead, donald trump often sets foreign policy with 180 characters, maybe 240 now. we'll take a look at what to expect in 2018. first, here's president obama on the pitfalls of social media. >> one of the dangers of the internet is people can have entirely different realities. they can be just cocooned in information that reinforces their current biases. so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you!

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let them vote against us. we'll save a lot. we don't care. but this isn't like it used to be where they could vote against you and then you pay them hundreds of millions of dollars and no one knows what they're doing. one hallmark of trump's first year in office has been the increasing isolation of america on the world stage. there was his internationally condemned decision to move the american embassy in israel to jerusalem and recognize the city as the country's capital. then of course the backlash, not to mention the aggressive verbal sparring between trump and kim jong-un, fuelled by the erratic behavior that led one of my

guests to list none other than donald trump as the world's biggest nuclear threat of this year and next. gentlemen, welcome to the show. joe, since you wrote the piece we're talking about that the president is the number one nuclear threat, explain that. >> thank you. i've been tracking u.s. and global nuclear policies for over 35 years here in washington. this is the first time i've listed the united states as the number one nuclear threat in the world today. that's because of a number of factors. one, there's a global arms race going on. all the nuclear armed states are modernizing or expanding their arsenals, including the united states. there's an attempt to have new nuclear weapons that could be more usable, the nuclear posture review that the president will release next month is probably going to have new missions, new combat missions for nuclear

weapons. most importantly it's the risks that exist in the world, the risk that iran might develop a nuclear weapon. we have a deal to stop that. president trump will likely disaemable thdis dissembdi disassemble that deal in 2018. the president's policy with north korea has been incoherent and unable to stem this race that north korea has to reach us with a nuclear weapon. that's probably the greatest risk of war in the region. finally, it's that the president of the united states with everything you just discussed, all the concerns you have about his mental stability, he has unfettered control of the most powerful nuclear arsenal in the world. he could order the launch of a nuclear missile and within four minutes that missile would be launched and no one could stop it. that makes the united states the most serious nuclear threat in the world today.

>> in fact, joe, you write in describing that threat, quote, it's an imupulsive finger on th button. malcolm, for those who aren't students of this and for those who may have forgotten, can you explain why the president of the united states -- really, talk about controlling authority over the department of justice, which is like not true and completely questionable. but when it comes to the american nuclear arsenal, the president has complete control, does he not? >> yeah. the term that people i.c.use ist he's a nuclear maonarch. he can on his own authority, at his own belief at any time virtually against any target in the world, he can launch a nuclear weapon. we call it the 35-minute

solution. the president of the united states can determine at any point that he feels, let's say, north korea's nuclear missile program is a clear and present danger to the national security of the united states. he can order that the football, which is communications package and strike options package be brought to him. he can choose a strike package within a minute and using the communications authentication device in his pocket, he can order the nuclear forces to launch a minuteman three missile in 30 minutes it will strike north korea and detonate. no one is in that chain to stop him. >> one thing you hear people say is well maybe someone will tackle the president or prevent the president from doing something. isn't it illegal in this instance of a nuclear monarch, isn't it illegal for someone to

disrupt that chain of command if a nuclear order is given by the president of the united states? >> when you and i had this conversation in early september 2016 and you wrote a "washington post" op ed about nuclear weapons, i told you about a period where it was at a nuclear command post pulling a watch shift. we asked how do you stop this. the joke there was tackle him. of course you know that's not viable. you will die when the secret service comes in and finds you have hands on the president of the united states and the football is open. that's not a viable option. the only viable option is that the secretary of defense, who has to authenticate that that is the president of the united states giving a lawful order, won't authenticate it because it may be an unlawful order. i don't know. but if donald trump decides this morning that he will nuke north korea and he gives a lawful

order by saying, i have determined it's a clear and present danger, 35 minutes later, whatever target he's aimed at will vaporize and with it of course the credit of the united states, the global economy. nothing will be in walmart in 72 hours. it's a horrible nightmare to discuss this. >> hr mcmaster said in the "new york times" article about trump, t trump's unorthodox approach has moved a lot of us out of our comfort zone, me included. mcmaster has defined trump's foreign policy as pragmatic realism rather than isolationism. pragmatic realism? >> jonathan, i wouldn't say this is pragmatic at all. if it's trying to achieve some pragmatic result, it has absolutely failed.

the president is the most unpopular president in history on the global stage. his international rankings are in the toilet along with his domestic rankings, about 37% approval. he's dragged down the world view of the united states under obama by 64% admired and approved of the united states. we're down to under 50% now. he has isolated us from our allies. he's emboldened our adversaries. you have to say that the man is squandering the global system of norms and treaties and security alliances that his predecessors had built up over the last 70 years. he's been a wrecking ball on the world stage. it's been a disastrous first year under president trump. >> one of the things that came out also in that story about the president is his situation with german chancellor angela merkel.

the story writes, in one of their first phone calls the chancellor explained to the president why ukraine was a vital part of the trans-atlantic relationship. german officials were alarmed by mr. trump's lack of knowledge, but they got even more rattled when white house aides called to complain afterward that ms. merkel had been condescending to the new president. to your point about the world holding the united states in low esteem, that's among everyday people around the world. when it comes to foreign leaders like merkel and people who are trying to keep the liberal democratic order that the united states has led for 70 years intact, how horrifying must it be to know about stories like that with chancellor merkel and other stories that have been reported and some that haven't been reported about the united states not only the president of the united states not only seems like he doesn't know basic

history, but that in addition to that, the united states is retreating from world leadership. >> well, you're absolutely right. it's horrifying. his motto of america first harks back right to the original america first movement in the late 1930s, early 1940s, that was designed to isolate the united states away from the war in europe to keep the united states from having its alliance with france arnond germany to ft nazi germany. those people were actually nazi sympathizers. donald trump's lack of understanding of history, geography, the inner workings between relations -- he's a transactional leader. it's horrifying because he doesn't understand anything. foreign leaders have to try to explain that to him and it is all to our detriment. >> happy new year to you both. >> happy new year. still ahead, the dail lily r

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make sure you tune in tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern for joy's recap of the top ten

stories of the year. she narrowed it down to only ten. up next, 2017 is almost over, thank god. stay with us.

rusted out factories, scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation. and the crime, and the gangs, and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our

country of so much unrealized potential. this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. >> donald trump began his presidency with an apocalyptic image he painted. over the course of the year, he gave us a few reasons, think violence in charlottesville and provoking the leader of north korea to worry that maybe trump would bring that dark vision into reality. the united states is still standing, more divided than ever. thank you all for coming back. you've all been here for the morning. i just have to read this tweet that i got during the commercial break. she wrote, i'm exhausted.

i'm going to need a story about some cute kit thtens stat. 2017 has been exhausting. >> it has been so rough. you know that psychologists and therapists and that community, they have a term for it, ptsd. president trump stress disorder. so many people feel the anxiety, this sense of like what's going to happen next, this sense of all of our democratic norms being challenged if not demolished and the sense of, he had a dark vision for the country. we are moving unfortunately in many ways towards that dark vision. this uncertainty and anxiety for people, it's scarey.

finding a safe haven with people that are like minded, there's the strength to go forward. >> i find my safety in instagram. there's a poll from october 2017, people of different political views, can they come together. 51% are pessimistic. 47% optimistic. are you pessimistic or optimistic? >> i'm pessimistic but trying to be optimistic. i actually follow emergency kittens on twitter. whenever things get too stressful, go over to the timeline of emergency kittens. 2017 started out rough. first of all, for me as a lifelong feminist, i didn't get out of bed for a good three days. i can't believe i'm admitting this. 2017 started with donald trump beating hillary clinton and the fact that he could have had aid

from a certain foreign government. so i feel like we never really got to get over the election of donald trump and understand the election of donald trump. so we're going to need some deep therapy in 2018. i also think we're ready for it. the irony is as much as he attacks the press, we are actually the ones with the power to hold him accountable. we need to rest up and continue fighting in 2018. >> when i heard that awful carnage speech by trump, i was incredibly pessimistic. i was like, the world is literally going to end this year. then the next day, 24 hours later, there was the woman's march and it was incredibly inspiring. we were all here, you know, half a million people showed up with the pink hats. it was amazing, because i did

not expect that. most of us did not expect that type of movement, people coming together in that moment. and then it moved to the muslim ban where you had people come out in the airports. that was very organic. it was amazing. then you had the health care fight to stop the repeal of health care. that was amazing. the town halls and the disability community literally putting their bodies on the line at the hill and fighting that. so there were these wonderful moments that made me realize, okay, there is room to be optimistic here. i think even though the tax bill plan got passed, i think we still ended this year with some really wonderful kind of glimpse of what 2018 could look like. we have to continue to remember -- he reminds us, he

lik thrives in hate and divisiveness and pitting people against each other. we have to continue to fight back in 2018. >> speaking of hate, there was a poll from august, a cbs news poll on racial divisions. in it, trump's policies encourage racial division rather than unity. 44% said yes. 12% said no. 39% said neither. two questions. racial division in this country, do you see more of an exacerbation of that rift in 2018, one. and two, the level of outrage -- there was january the women's march, then the muslim ban, then the march for science. we've been seeing lots of

expressions of outrage throughout 2017. can that level of outrage be sustained long enough to get people into voting booths in 2018 november? >> on this one, i share her optimism. when we talk about the racialization that we have seen under the trump administration, my take is that it is coming from his base. remember, he is not the president of the united states of america. he is president of his base. he has made no attempt to reach out to other people. so all of this churn we're seeing, whether we're talking about charlottesville or the immigration debate, it's coming from that vocal minority. what gives me optimism now is when you go to something like a woman's march or an immigration march, you see all kinds of people. you see the people there for climate change. you see people there against the pipelines. we do see a new coalition

forming. i think going ahead, that's the see to staying strong, is this notion of solidarity. i think people right now, as disheartening as the last year has been, people are feeling empowered. those marches have meant somethi something. they have validated people's sense of being under siege and made people realize that in unity there is power and that change is coming. >> in the less than a minute that we have left, we can't run the sound bite that i wanted to run. but there was a suggestion that people should go home today and think about who is someone in your life that you can persuade and actually reach out, maybe someone you defriended this year. the whole point is we've got to mend these rifts within the american body politic. do you think that is possible? is it possible to mend the

whatever it is that separates us? >> no. i feel with the trump supporters, leave them be. they will come around. >> that's a tough one. i think we're in a place where we're so divided, donald trump has taken us there. i'll say this. majority of americans voted against trump and are continuing to step up against him. >> i think yes but it's going to be a little difficult when we have a sexual assaulter in chief constantly dividing the people. >> on that note, thank you. up next, my guests tell me who they believe won 2017.

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time now for my panel to discuss who won the year. all right. so i'm going to start with you. who won the year? >> i think there is no doubt that black women won the year, jonathan. black women won the year. they showed us stopping a pedophile in alabama to maxine waters teaching us how to

reclaim our time to the me too movement. to also women like careen and joy reid who every day remind us to hold this administration accountable. i think black women turned alabama and slayed 2017. >> well, this is perfect. thank you so much for saving 2017. >> you're welcome. >> who won the year for you? >> i agree. black women hands down. president obama i feel like won the year. there hasn't been a day that has not gone by since january 20 that you don't see a meme on social media that says please come back. people across the globe are missing the kind of even keelness of someone who just understands the rule of law and the constitution in the white

house. we just don't clearly have that anymore. it's also, donald trump just can't stand president obama. he hasn't been able to repeal health care, which is awesome, is really taking to undoing everything that obama has done and he just hasn't been able to do that. >> dean? >> well, i think all of us watching are winners because we survived the first year of donald trump, because i thought that was in doubt for a little while. but honestly the resistance is the big winner. a year ago at this time so many of us were despondent, we were fearful. we had a man who won the white house trafficking in hate and bigot bigotry, demonizing my community directly and we didn't know where we were going to do. then we had the women's march and then people came to the airport, people marched in the middle of the country saying we are your brothers and sisters, we are here for you and that built organically. then we saw the electoral

victories, virginia, ralph northam, democrats flipped the most seats in the house of delegates in a hundred years there. new jersey, we won big and of course alabama with doug jones. so i think this building resistance where we feel like we're not alone, that we are there for each other. no community is going to be left behind when donald trump attacks you. we're there for you, lgbt, muslim, african-american, la te -- latino. november 2018 we'll come back and take our country back. >> the blue wave is coming. >> okay. so we have black women, president obama, all of us, the resistance. >> everybody. >> everybody. and so i want -- and i agree. i agree with all of those things. i want to tease out a community within the resistance that people probably haven't thought of and who should get some

recognition, and i want to call out those members of the republican party, those members who are dyed in the wool conservatives who have stood up against what president trump has done in terms of the rule of law and violation of the constitution. i'm thinking of those republican voters in virginia who either stayed at home and didn't vote because they didn't like the campaign that ed gillespie ran, wanted to send a message to president trump, people who -- republicans in virginia who actually voted for ralph northam to be the next governor of virginia. i have friends in virginia who are republicans who were here in new york on election day and raced -- primary day and raced home to virginia to vote in that election, to vote for ralph northam. as we saw with alabama, republicans who either didn't vote out of disgust over roy moore or who voted for doug

jones to send a message to their party and to the country that president trump and what he represents to the country, to the constitution, to the office of the presidency, is something that they cannot abide and that they wanted to send a message. and so if more of them -- you take disaffected republicans, black women and the rest of us who have been -- who have resisted what they have seen come out of the trump administration and the trump oval office, then i think 2018 will be a much better year, no? >> yes, i hope so. that's our goal. the blue wave is building, folks, as long as we work hard. >> fingers crossed. >> wait, that was a little tentative. fingers crossed. who said that? >> fingers crossed. >> we're going to do it. >> we're going to do it, jonathan. 2018. watch your back, trump, we're coming. >> all right. so we're all very optimistic here. but if there is a caution, what would you say to -- and i'm going to start with dean since i'm looking right at him right

here. >> sure. >> what would you caution folks in the resistance to make sure that 2018 is indeed a good year? >> do not take this for granted. >> yeah. >> muslims say a term that says god willing. you can't just sit around and say god willing, we're going to win. no, we have to work, we have to make more phone calls, knock on doors, register people to vote, push against donald trump, his lies, call him out, don't let them be mainstream, so i think the resistance to win in 2018, a lot of work. even more work than we did in 2017, double the efforts. so judgment day comes november 6th. count those ballots and if democrats control the house and main even the senate. >> karine? >> i'm right on board with dean. i think we have to continue and work a lot harder. it's almost like the last segment when we were talking, jonathan, about the emotional toll of trump. it's not going to stop, it's only going to get worse as he feels the walls closing in on him, especially with russia.

so we've just got to stay tough and get folks out there. if you want to run, run yourself. like we just have to encourage people to be active. >> we've seen people jump in congressional races around the country, folks who never thought in a million office they would run for office but feel so moved. >> don't take democracy for granted, don't take press freedom for granted. we've still got a lot of work to do. i think it's amazing having a self-proclaimed sexual assaulter in the white house, how women -- we're seeing more women run for congress and office than ever before in american history. we saw the me too movement, we saw the march, so we have a lot of work to do and we cannot take our democracy for granted. >> with that, we'll have to leave it there, thank you all very much for your thoughts. stay with us, there's more "a.m. joy" after the break. it's time for sleep number's 'lowest

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thank you for watching this morning and a very happy new year to all of you and a special thanks to joy reid for the honor of sitting in her chair. don't miss "a.m. joy's" top stories of 2017 tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. now to sheinelle jones with the latest headlines. >> thank you, i enjoyed watching

you today. happy new year to you. good day, i'm sheinelle jones at msnbc world headquarters in new york. alex witt is off today. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. here's what's happening overseas, north korea and iran sending messages to president trump. one on nuclear weapons, the other on so-called u.s. meddling. fact check. president trump's interview with "the new york times" under fresh scrutiny. separating fact from fiction in the 30 minutes they spoke. >> when the president walked in still in his golf clothes, he introduced "the new york times" reporter to the president andy abled this 30-minute sitdown with no aides that happened. plus the scramble and shock when aides learned the president was in the midst of an unscheduled chat with "the times." later, big chill. historic and bitter cold sweeps across the country. a look at what could be a record-setting new year. but we begin overseas. new this hour two world hot spots sending a