complex than global warming will make it hotter. it has to do with disruptions of atmospheric conditions, ocean patterns and jet streams and stuff like that. this got a lot of attention online. one reality tv star fact checking another who's now president. vinny defended his credentials. what does having a summer house make you stupid? so with that vinny has the last word. that does it for me. chris january seng in for ari melber. "hardball" starts right now. trump debate, cease and desist. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. the president is trying to stop the publication of a book that offers a critical look at the inner workings of his white house.

donald trump's personal lawyer firing off cease and desist letters to author michael wolf and to his publisher. their upcoming book is full of, quote, false and baseless statements against the president. he talked about steve bannon and trump's laura cus him of breaching a confidentiality agreement. it is not clear if the president, however, will actually follow through with the lawsuit. nbc news has not confirmed much of what appears in michael wolf's book. yelled president trump said bannon had quote, lost his mind. and today the president answered questions about his relationship with his former allies. >> did steve bannon betray you, mr. president? >> i don't know, he called me a great man last night. obviously he changed his tune pretty quick. thank you all very much. >> thank you. >> i don't talk to him. i don't talk to him. i don't talk to him. that's just a misnomer.

thank you. >> and white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders took several jabs at bannon today when asked about his relationship to the president and whether he should be fired by breitbart news where he served as executive chairman. let's watch. >> should breitbart part ways with steve bannon after the comments in these books. >> i certainly think it's something they should look at and consider. >> for his part, steve bannon tried to lower the temperature this morning on his sirius radio show. he declined to say how many of the quotes in the book are accurate. let's listen. >> don't worry about us in the maga agenda, president trump. we're tight on this agenda. let's focus on the agenda. there's nobo let's not let the left wing media tear that up. >> are those comments are

accurate? >> i think we have to wait for the book to come out, let people see it. we'll comment at that time. >> for more on all of this and what it says about the trump white house, i'm joined by "usa today", susan page, jeremy peters and elise jordan. susan, let me start with you on that clip we just played, how bannon is handling all of this. had bannon sort of been shooting his mouth off to michael wolf and he's as surprised as all of us to see how this looks in print or was this part of a calculated meditated strategy? listening to him today sure sounds like he's in a defensive crouch here. >> you know, he was defensive in some ways but in no way tried to refute the most explosive things he was quoted as saying. he didn't say he didn't say them. he didn't say i thought i was speaking off the record and that is -- that -- in washington speak, that amounts to a confirmation that these quotes are things that he did say and that he intended to say, things that he believes. so i took that as a -- what we

might call a nondenial denial in his comments today on his radio show. >> what's it going to mean, jeremy peters. you've been doing some reporting on this. we have the clip, sarah huckabee sanders, breitbart news, this guy's big platform, they cut ties, you have rebecca mercer. she bank roles the operation. she's talking about rebuking him. does he have a future at breitbart news now? >> ip be deed, steve. rebecca mercer, his biggest political benefactor did rebuke him. we found out that they have not spoken in months. bannon has led people to believe otherwise. he has in recruiting candidates and donors for a c4 that he is operating, it led them to believe that the mercers are fully on board and will be financing his operations that evidently not the case. i've spoken with several people in and around the bannon

breitbart world today who tell me that they cannot be sure that bannon will last the week at breitbart. now that doesn't mean he's going to get fired. i wouldn't go that far. rebecca mercer does only control a minority stake in the company, but when it comes right down to it, the damage that bannon has done to himself, the damage he has done to the credibility of the populus revolution he claims to be leading and the damage he has done to breitbart as a business. remember, it is a business and relies on advertisers, it could be something that he just doesn't recover from. >> well, it's interesting at least what susan was saying there. he's not denying at least on the show today he's not out there disputing quotes, trying to explain them away. it almost feels there's a trumpian aspect. you never apologize for anything. you never play defense that way, but he certainly wasn't trying to advance any kind of bigger picture fight with donald trump. full steam ahead. shared agenda, we're all on the same page.

i'm trying to figure out trump world here. we've got so many cases where donald trump in the past has trashed somebody and that person years later or months later is back in the inner circle somehow. somebody who's in the inner circle one day is on the outs months later. isn't there a scenario where this all comes around and bannon and trump end up as allies? >> i agree with susan that this is the washington version of a confirmation by not denying and not running to say, oh, it was off the record. i was a victim of a journal lis stick mishappen. so i do think it is a tacit confirmation. your point is good though, that perhaps this is just another court jester falling out of favor and he could emerge again. the only reason i don't think that's possible is because the attack was so personal and it was about donald trump's family. >> right. >> you look at other exiled advisers, it's not like they're going after ivanka trump. they aren't going after his son-in-law or his son, donald

trump, and that's what steve bannon did. >> reading his quotes, he put together a list of places donald trump is most sensitive, seems most sensitive, bannon was going for all of them. >> also i point out, no republican has ever been successful attacking donald trump from the right. who is someone who has attacked donald trump from the right and emerged the victor. >> none of them have pulled that off. as i mentioned though, president trump's lawyer also threatened legal action against people tied to the book. in a letter to bannon charles harter told him he had breached his confidentiality and nondisparaging agreement. quote, you have breached the cumulative agreement by communicating with michael wolf disclosing confidential information to mr. wolf and making disparaging statements in some cases outright defamatory statements to mr. wolf about mr. trump, his family members and the company. in a separate letter to michael wolf he wrote mr. trump here by demands that you immediately

cease and desist from any further publication, release or dissemination of the book, the article or any excerpts or summaries of either of them. they were moving up the release date by four days to tomorrow. susan, i've already seen the pre-sales of this book. i'm trying to figure out tactically here, we know trump has this history of threatening lawsuits, often not following through on them. this is only going to goose book -- you could print that letter on the back of the book and probably sell 100 million copies. is there any tactical reason for these threats? >> it's like the world's best blurb. in the idea that a president has standing to preempt publication, that is at odds with our constitution and experience. i would bet that there's no lawsuit following this letening letter. in fact, it's perplexing why

they sent the letter. the books were already published. the idea this could stop publication, this is the greatest gift the president could have given to mr. wolf. trump spent much of the day raging about the book to top aids as he fumed. some were frantically searching for a copy of the book. someone with knowledge of the president's comment told the post, he's out of control. today a number of allies defended the president and attacked the book. let's watch. >> there are numerous mistakes, but i'm not going to waste my time or the country's time going page by page talking about a book that's complete fantasy and just full of tabloid goss city sip because it's sad, pathetic. >> it's pretty obvious that this book is filled with falsehoods and out-and-out lies. this is obviously a hit job on

the president, one filled with lies, and we believe the future will prove our side of that case. >> you need to know that this guy who wrote this book, these are accusations not from steve but in a book by michael wolf is a sleaze bag. >> a lot of it is nonsense. michael wolf wrote a nonsensical book. he is saying the president did not want to win the u.s. presidency. >> jeremy, this is interesting. there are things in this book. a lot of people have already talked about this claim that the president didn't know who john boehner was. as a matter of record, you can see he did. there's a lot of cloudy sourcing on things. a critic said he doesn't recreate events, he creates them. that line is not what we heard from the president yesterday when this first came out. >> i think, steve, that's because by and large in the main what we have seen in excerpts of

this book is what trump advisors, trump loyalists and people who work in the white house know to be true, and that's that the president is impulsive, that he's reckless and that the things that are written about don jr. in this, that it was a terrible idea for him to go and meet with the russians is true. i think in assessing the fallout from this book one needs to remember that. basically what steve bannon is quoted as saying are the beliefs that privately people inside and outside the white house that are close to trump say themselves all the time. >> elise, this is a much more dramatic version. the story we had seen before, the insider account that emerges from a president, remembering paul o'neill, bush's first treasury secretary in '03, this book came out. iran, all of this sort of explosive stuff. i think what we're seeing that's

different, the anecdotes, it's the reaction of the white house, a personal statement from the president that brought this thing to a level 20 on a scale of 10. >> well, dana perino who was president bush's secretary tweeted about the fact today. she said, books are going to come out and you can just let the storm ride it out and you don't have to make it even a more bigger debacle and that's exactly what they've done. president trump gave michael wolf the best blurb ever. the book donald trump did not ever want you to read. this has made the sales skyrocket. it's made it a more juicy option to add to your book shelves. >> moving up the publication tomorrow. we'll see how this plays out in terms of sales among other things. thank you to susan page, jeremy peters and the republican party is trump's party. republicans are lining up behind their president and for many in the establishment, this fight is

a chance to bury bannon and his politics once and for all. plus, president trump said he disbanded his voter fraud commission because voters would not cooperate. people were voting illegally and that's true. steve bannon is one of the latest to take a look at filling the white house with the best people. finally, the "hardball" roundtable will be here with three things you might not know tonight but you will by the end of the show. this is "hardball" where the action is. from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. ♪ oh and at fidelity, you'll see how all your investments are working together. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. ♪ just remember what i said about a little bit o' soul ♪ things are just clearer. trust #1 doctor recommended dulcolax. use dulcolax tablets for gentle dependable relief. suppositories for relief in minutes. and dulcoease for comfortable relief of hard stools.

dulcolax. designed for dependable relief. white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders was asked to respond to questions about the president's mental health. this follows a series of questions by michael wolf about the trump white house as well as the president's own saber-rattling about the nuclear war with south korea. >> what's the president's reaction that he's mentally unfit to serve as president? >> the same way we have when

it's been asked before, that it's disgraceful and laughable. >> next week when he goes to his physical, are there mental acuity tests that go along with that or is it purely physical in nature? >> we'll discuss, as i said, when i announced that he was going to be doing the physical, we'll have a readout of that after that is completed and we'll let you know at that time. >> we'll be right back. and 640 muscles in the human body, no two of us are alike. life made more effortless through adaptability. the perfect position seat in the lincoln continental. ( ♪ ) in the lincoln continental. but when we brought our daughter home, that was it. now i have nicoderm cq. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. it's the best thing that ever happened to me. every great why needs a great how.

ancestrydna can pinpoint where your ancestors are from... and the paths they took to a new home. could their journey inspire yours? order your kit at ancestrydna.com we know life can be hectic. that's why, at xfinity, we've been working hard to simplify your experiences with us. now, with instant text and email updates, you'll always be up to date. you can easily add premium channels, so you don't miss your favorite show.

and with just a single word, find all the answers you're looking for - because getting what you need should be simple, fast, and easy. download the xfinity my account app or go online today. welcome back to "hardball." so far president trump's very public break with his former top strategist steve bannon appears to have unified many in the party behind the president and against bannon. that's bad news for the conservative rebellion bannon has been attempting to lead against the republican establishment. nbc news reports, quote, candidates long identified with bannon are starting to distance themselves from him and put their allegiance with trump. i strong will he denounce the comments by steve bannon. they are baseless attacks

against the president's family and i fully support the president in chief. kelly ward downplayed bannon as only one of the many high profile endorsements dr. ward has received. in west virginia a spokesperson for patrick morsi who is going to run against democratic joe manchin, attorney general morsi does not endorse this. joined by charlie dent of pennsylvania, national political reporter covering this over bannon. congressman, you're from the establishment wing of the republican party as many people understand. i don't imagine you're too excited about a lot of these bannon backed primary channels. these candidates, kelly moore, arizona, tarkanian, nevada, i'm with the president, the establishment is trying to fight him. i'll have his back, they won't.

they still have that message. now it looks like they're not going to get any help from bannon. does having bannon on the sideline affect their ability to win? >> oh, i -- i don't know about that. look, the issue here isn't really steve bannon. i mean, the issue is the president. the president exercised the bad judgment to bring bannon into his orbit in the first place. i think that's the terrible error of judgment. also, i'd say in a battle of donald trump and steve bannon, donald trump wins. steve bannon, the only thing he can accomplish is he lost a seat in alabama. he's really not delivered much of anything. in fact, he essentially pulled the pin out of the grenade and stuck it in his mouth. i can't imagine any of these candidates -- >> listening to bannon today, it feels almost like an acknowledgment of that, he's stressing we're still on the same page, still on the same agenda. looking at your party and what

it stands for in the air of donald trump, if there's a split between trump and bannon, what does trump represent that bannon doesn't represent? what has the republican party severated if you separate them? >> in this case i would have to say it's more personality. steve bannon certainly represents the alt right and donald trump embraced elements of the alt right. so i suspect that in this case, you know, the president's message will probably remain the same. the question is, who's going to run breitbart? who's going to carry that message won't be able to do it. >> tom, what do you make of this in terms of the politics, the republican party. what does that mean? >> it's amazing you have a self-styled field general, steve

bannon, dividing the party, trying to get the primaries done. he actually ends up unifying remember cans in their desire to oust him. i think what it means at the moment is actually a little bit of a rise for donald trump. it's good for him to have the republicans unified. it's good for him to be on the same page as them. it was a good moment for him for a lot of reasons. none one, to distract from what was going on in the forthcoming book "fire and fury" but also because he's weighed in on the side of the establishment and basically called bannon a fraud. >> does he have anything left? does he fadeaway? is he still a player for 2018? >> i think it's very hard without that platform.

ultimately his power became derivative of donald trump's. he was building his audience through breitbart, but once trump and bannon became linked, trump became the thing. he became the big deal. now you have, look, bannon realizes he went from bravado to bootlegging in ten minutes. we heard him on sirius radio about how he loves the president. he was talking about how the only people in washington who wanted roy moore elected were people who want higher taxes. he finally got this come uppance. >> it was sort of a dramatic contrast reading those excerpts and reading them on the radio

show. very different voice. senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, he weighed in on bannon's statement today. let's watch that. >> steve bannon in a new book is report today have said contact and placed meetings between trump associates and russians is treasonous. do you agree with steve bannon? >> i like to associate myself with what president trump had to say yesterday. >> according to a -- they appeared to tweet a welcome. it shows senator mcconnell smiling to the camera. a clear celebration of victory there. let me ask you about that. mitch mcconnell is thrilled. he doesn't like steve bannon.

thinks he's a nuisance there. what's this going to mean to them in 2018, does that improve mcconnell's ability to get an agenda through and what agenda would that be. is there something that can easily pass. >> well, the fact that bannon has been pushed aside, marginalized, is a good thing for everyone and the country. i think there is a challenge for our party, and it was this. it was the substance of the article. there are a lot of things stated in that article about the president's impulsiveness, lack of focus, you know, temper. tempt permtal. we had all heard and on paper. and it seems to me it further exacerbated this question of a dysfunction dysfunctional than we might think. it's speaking to the president's

fitness in a way that i think needs to be addressed. we can all celebrate the steve bannon's out of the way, hey, good riddance, but there are deeper issues here in terms of the institution of the presidency, how this affects the country and our relations with other nations. i think there are big issues that are going to be looked at and judged by voters on those issues as well. it's not just bannon out of the picture. >> let me just follow up here. you said there are issues inside the white house that need to be addressed. what's your role? what's the rolf congress? what's the role of republicans in addressing that? >> our role is to work with the president when we agree with him but to check him if it's moving in a bad direction and call him out if he's moving on the rails. that is our job. we have to exercise our article 1 powers. part of me says, who's going to stage the political intervention

at the white house? who's going to do that, the lack of policy naj, not being well informed. we have to confront them sooner or later. >> you have the oversight power. how do you confirm those issues. as a member of congress, you read this and you're concerned. does what you're reading match? >> i have some friends who work in and out of the white house as well. one of them said to me, there's a lot of stuff in that article. certainly if he knows john boehner they know each other. i have to think there's a lot of truth to what we stated. it's not just about the election, the fact that bannon's been pushed aside. the issue is how is this going

to affect our ability to govern and work with this administration. the american people are going to judge us as a party not just based on what we're doing, but based on the president. i'm not convinced it's going to be a pocketbook election by any means. people are going to be voting their values. they're going to take it out on all of us. steve bannon has been side lined. >> i don't want to belabor the point. i want to ask it to be clear again. beyond speaking out as you are now, specifically the powers you have as a member of congress, the power anybody has. is there anything specifically, con front the issue and the concerns not just from this book. anything you can do? >> well, i'm not so sure there is right now. look, the president, he was elected. i think the serving, they understood what they were going for in large support.

there shouldn't be any surprises. we should manage the situation as best we can. i think a lot of parts. we've got to manage it. >> congressman charlie dade, jonathan allen, thank you both. appreciate that. in a spinal cord group? >> this is "hardball" when i was too busy with the kids to get a repair accident. >> with liberty mutual all i needed to do was snap a photo of the dabble and viola! >> viola! >> charlie?

♪ it's time for sleep number's 'lowest prices of the season' on the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. and snoring? does your bed do that? it's the lowest prices of the season on the queen c4 mattress with adjustable comfort on both sides. now only $1199, save $400. ends soon. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you.

♪ it's so hard to believe ♪ but it's all coming back me. ♪ baby, baby, baby. all you can eat is back, baby. applebee's.

and i heard that my cousin's so, wife's sister's husband was a lawyer, so i called him. but he never called me back! if your cousin's wife's sister's husband isn't a lawyer, call legalzoom and we'll connect you with an attorney. legalzoom. where life meets legal.

welcome back to "hardball." president trump has claimed that millions of people voted illegally in the 2016 election. he followed through on his idea to have a voter fraud commission. yesterday they announced they were shutting the commission down. the commission had, according to nbc news, had the internal dissension threats of refusable of information. president trump tweeted today that, quote, many mostly democrat states were able to hand over to-- they know many people are voting illegally. system is rigged. must go to voter i.d. there is no evidence of any of trump's latest claims. there is no corroboration of

large scale voter fraud nor proof that millions of illegal voters cast ballots in the 2016 election as trump has claimed. 1y0i7d by judith brown. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me, steve. this was about his ego. part of this commission was continuing the false narrative and the myth around voter fraud so that they could actually make it harder to vote for americans. so what we're seeing with this commission is the jig is up. there was no boogie man. they say there's substantial evidence but they can't get the substantial evidence. it's a scam. what they really want is for the

state to pass laws that will make it harder for people to vote. >> he wants it to go to the states. he's saying, look, kick it over to dhs. do you think there's going to be anymore action specifically from this administration? >> i think the troubling thing is that they are moving this over to dhs because they couldn't get it done through a commission because there were a lot of fights, there was a lot of litigation, there were organizations that were filing public information requests to get all of the memos behind it. what they think is they will move it to the department of homeland security so they can do their dirt in darkness. they're moving it to dhs hoping that what they will continue to do is continue the threat, point the finger at undocumented immigrants saying they're committing fraud.

what we know is they will continue to fight this, we will continue to investigate, we will continue to know that there is actually no evidence of voter fraud. they won't be able to find it. but we don't want it also to have a suppressive effect so that people won't vote because they're concerned about dhs coming after him. >> he just mensed this at the end of the tweet. he said, time to go to voter i.d. you think the next step was that might be the way some of the states go. hey, look, this building where i am, you have to show some kind of i.d. to get in. why not have to show some kind of i.d. which proofs you have some kind of safeguard when you vote? what do you think of the philosophical idea there? >> the problem is the voter laws are restrictive. we don't have a problem with voter fraud. we are fixing something that isn't broken. second, the kind of id that

they're trying to get past is very restrictive. i can sell them anything with a photo on it. anything with an address. what's happened is in particular the kind of things like states like texas have been i.d. laws that make it harder to vote for a particular american, mostly people of color, young people and the elderly. so we don't want these kinds of barriers and don't we want a robust democracy. we wanted it to be easier for americans to participate in our democracy. >> thanks for the time tonight. >> thanks, steve. up next, the president promised to hire only the best people. his track record may not be looking so good. the president's white house has seen so many flameouts here in the office. >> you're watching -- >> no. [ both laugh ] here, blow. blow on it.

you see it, right? is there a draft in here? i'm telling you, it's so easy to get home insurance on progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto.

welcome back to "hardball." on the campaign trail donald trump repeatedly promised to hire only the best people.

increasingly the president's track record may not be looking too good. yesterday trump claimed steve bannon lost his mind. >> he's got probably the best emotional intelligence in terms of sizing and reading people and he got steve bannon right. he basically declared that yesterday for everybody. he probably felt that way privately about him and he was trying to keep the peace. >> they say what he will about bachb non, scar ra mu chi himself lasted only ten days on the job. he attacked bannon and reince priebus who was ousted six months on the job. former national security adviser michael flynn was canned in february after 24 days. he's now pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi. cabinet secretary tom price resigned after revelations he'd

used private jets for business. more recently omarosa manigault newman was escorted off the grounds. let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable. shelby, noah rock man is wiand e new york democratic party. shelby, let me start with you. there's a couple of different issues here. a couple. that's an understatement. >> love it. >> he says he's going to get the best people. now he's saying one of the people who was closest to him has lost his mind. there's also the constant drama, one aide sniping at another, one leaving taking shots at another. what does it say about trump? what does it say about the type of person he attracts, the administration he's running? >> based on what everyone is saying, i guess everyone at some point in the trump administration has lost their minds. when you look at the white house, it's a difficult place to

work. president trump is a really difficult way to be working. there are many issues here. some of the people trump did hire were qualified on paper. sean spicer has become a public punching bag and laughing stock. he was communications director for the rnc, he was in the navy reserves. the man was qualified, he just didn't seem to be able to handle the pressure of the white house. then you have amarosa. >> right. we know one thing from 13 years ago in the resume. noah, let me ask you in this standpoint. in this book bannon talks about the challenges of staffing up the administration because anybody who criticized trump, anti-trump is supposed to be tracking that. right now just in general in the

republican universe, what kind of person is willing to take a job in this administration now? who can they draw from? >> two different types of people that would be interested. one is someone interested in personal aggrandizement and self effacement in light of the country. a lot of people feel like the cost of doing business here isn't worth it. they are displays of subservience. there are others who feel like serving the country is more important. god bless them. otherwise we would have -- >> that's the argument i've heard out there from critics of the administration, there seems to be a debate of condemning people who go and work for the administration and say, how dare you do that. the other thought is maybe it's good to put up with this for the

betterment of the country. if they're qualified, maybe it's better for the country to have them in there. >> i think about if you've ever worked around government, the impression that most people seem to get is there are very few people in this white house that genuinely care about public service. that is sort of a standard that anyone who goes into that you have to care and want to circumscribe it. even if the republicans disagree or the democrats disagree with the republicans at the white house, everybody was there to support him. you don't get that quite often. i don't know if there are -- there could be too many battles. >> the most interesting thing to me, you need shawn spicer.

>> they do loyal in public. we also heard bannon say trump's a great guy. in public bannon is staying legal. all of these people tend to stab trimp in the front. trump doesn't like it. trump doesn't want a confrontation. >> he looks con froon tagss. roundtable is staying with us. much more "hardball" straight ahead. we'll be right back. can save. 3 waves later, i think it was the other way around... ♪ everything you need to go. expedia. the center of the how canneighborhood?r house first, mix liquid gold velveeta with the one-two kick of ro*tel's diced tomatoes and spicy green chilies. then, find space for extra parking.

lots and lots of parking. you or joints. something for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.

after weeks of political wrangling, a drawing was held today to decide the winner of that crucial virginia house of delegates race. there was a bit of pageantry involved in the drawing. the two candidates names were sealed in different film canisters. it was pulled from a decorative ceramic bowl. now watch. >> we'll now proceed with the drawing. secretary mcallister, will you please -- >> yes, mr. chairman. i want to assure yifr one from amazon, shelly simon.

david e.yantz. madam vice chair, will you give the bowl a stir? >> the cook in the kitchen. >> okay. here you go. >> the winner of house district 94 is david yance. >> with that, republicans now will control the virginia statehouse. the democrat in that race, shelly simon, is entitled to another recount. she has not ruled out that option. democracy in action. we'll be right back. heartburn faster. whoooo. when it comes to travel, i sweat the details.

late checkout... ...down-alternative pillows... ...and of course, price. tripadvisor helps you book a... ...hotel without breaking a sweat. because we now instantly... ...search over 200 booking sites ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. don't sweat your booking. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.

you can do it. we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. -whoo! we have breaking news we want to tell you about from "the new york times." president trump, according to the paper, gave firm instructions in march to the white house's top lawyer to stop

attorney general jeff sessions from recusing himself in the russia investigation. this is a breaking story just posted within the last few minutes. the "times" reports white house counsel don mcgann carried out the president's orders and lobbied sessions to remain in charge of the inquiry according to two people with knowledge of the episode. ultimately mcgann was unsuccessful. michael schmidt, reporter for "the new york times," broke that story, joining us now by phone. michael, thank you for taking a few minutes. take us through this. the basics are we know right now in public, donald trump is very upset that jeff sessions has rekumsed himself from this investigation. you're reporting that in march trump told the top white house lawyer to stop him, and the top white house lawyer tried to do that. >> correct. afterwards the president got very angry. the president's been open about his anger, but this was one on one, in front of several other white house officials. the president said he needed an attorney general who was going to protect him. he said he wanted something along the lines of what rfk had

been for jfk, eric holder had been for barack obama. he said, where's my roy cohn? referring to his long-time personal lawyer and fixer who had done the communist investigations in the 1950s. but these are different events we uncovered that mueller has learned about in the course of his investigation as he looks at the question of obstruction. >> that also is a key part of this. this is information you're saying that robert mueller, the special prosecutor, has found and he's now looking at. >> correct. and you know, it doesn't look like anything in and of -- in terms of lobbying sessions, you know. i don't know if in and of itself that is obstruction. there's different events he's learned about, an effort by a white house lawyer to sort of hide from the president the fact that he could actually fire the fbi director by misleading him about the powers he had in hopes the president wouldn't do it. there's different things as mueller has interviewed and look the through documents he has kicked up in learning more about

how this white house operated. >> do you have a sense here, sessions obviously refused this pressure, he did recuse himself. do you have a sense though how he handled this? did he almost recuse himself, as a result what the message was specifically delivered to him? >> the thing was that sessions had basically decided to recuse himself at that point. it hadn't been publicly announced. but there was pressure on sessions at that point to do so because it had come out that he had met with russians during the campaign, contradicting some of his campaign -- some of his testimony he had given to congress. so there was this call for him to recuse, and the president knew about this and tried to stop it. and it ultimately ended up with sessions making it public that he was recused from the investigation. >> the other piece of it, you say trump ordered mcgann, the white house lawyer, to deliver the message. is there any context there in terms of did mcgann just do this without question? did he say, mr. president, maybe i should -- what was the context

of that exchange? any idea there? >> no, i mean, i think mcgann has been in difficult situations several times with the president where the president will say or do things that may be outlandish, that mcgann thinks are bad ideas, but mcgann is his lawyer and tries to find a way to do those things but do them in a nuanced and smart way. in the case of this -- this case here what mcgann did was try and make a nuanced argument to sessions but it didn't work. >> you make this case, just looking through this, a lot of people at home reading this for the first time too, you have president trump here at one point saying, where's my roy cohn? roy cohn had been his personal lawyer in the '70s and '80s, sort of a notorious in many ways washington lawyer, the mccarthy committee in the '50s, moved up to new york after that. looking for an aggressive protector, seeing the attorney general in that capacity. >> correct. it's an unusual way of looking at the attorney general. most white houses try and keep their distance from the justice

department. try and stay away from investigations. but the president was very preoccupied with the russia investigation. in february, he asked comey to end the investigation into his national security adviser, he spent a lot of time trying to lobby comey to step aside. took out the word he wasn't under investigation. there's been a long standing preoccupation by the president about this. >> again, you say this is something the special counsel has discovered. unclear here, we talk about this question of obstruction of justice, if just making this request from the president's standpoint would constitute that or anything. any idea where the special counsel's going as a result of learning this? >> no we don't have a lot of visibility into how they see the legal question here. legal experts are divided about how the president -- how much there is an obstruction case here, what the president could be in trouble for. these cases are not easy, and they say they would be more clear cut if there was evidence the president tried to get someone to lie or destroy some

sort of evidence. we don't have any everydidence that. >> this is a breaking news story, you're hearing it as we're reading it in the last few minutes. michael schmidt of "the new york times" reporting that president trump had asked the white house counsel to keep jeff sessions from recusing himself, that the white house counsel attempted to do that but jeff sessions did end up recusing himself from this russia matter. michael schmidt from "the new york times," thank you for joining us on short notice, i appreciate it. i didn't really know anything about my family history. went to ancestry, i put in the names of my grandparents first. i got a leaf right away.

a leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. i learned that my ten times great grandmother is george washington's aunt. within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, i'm related to george washington. this is my cousin george. discover your story. start searching for free now at ancestry.com

when you have something you love, ♪ you want to protect it. at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. where life meets legal.

shelby this "new york times" story, something else we didn't just talk about jumped out? >> another big bombshell, sessions asked a congressional aild for dirt on comey. alone, may raise eyebrows. together with everything we know, points stronger towards intent, which is something you need in order to prove obstruction of justice. >> we should make clear, the department of justice did deny that allegation, but that is something else we'll be talking about. shelby halladay, that's "hardball" for now. "all in" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> did steve bannon betray you, mr. president? >> shock waves. >> i don't talk to him, that's just a misnomer. >> as new questions of fitness for office swirl -- >> what's the president's reaction to the growing suggestion that he's mentally unfit to serve as president? >> and trump threatens to sue. >> will presidents go to court to stop the publication of this book? >>