samantha bee but jimmy kimmel has a different approach. >> the stupid people's choice awards are what they are calling it. is there a dilemma for the president because on one hand, he loves a awards and trophies, but will he be physically able to give a trophy to someone other than himself. i don't think so. >> winners at 5:00 p.m. on monday if the trump-es happen. "hardball" starts right now. book of revelations. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for crass matthews. he'll be back on monday night. it is the book donald trump can't seem to stop talking about. michael wolff's chronicle of the trump presidency hit book stores with the best publicity possible. the president trying to keep people from reading it.

trump's lawyer even threatened lawsuits to keep it off the shelves. that did not work. this morning the president slammed the book and its author tweeting i authorized zero access to the white house, turned him down many times forager of the phony book. i never spoke to him for book. full of lies, misrepresentations and sources that don't exist. look at this guy's past and watch what happens to him and sloppy steve. that last part a reference to steve bannon who was interviewed by wolff and offered strong critiques of the president and his family. also tweeting, the fake news media and this phony new book are hitting out at every new front imaginable. they should try winning an election. sad. and he doubled down on his new nickname for bannon, the mercer dumped the stoppy steve bannon. smart, michael wolff responded to the president's threat of legal action. also to his criticism of his

reporting. >> where do i send the box of chocolates. >> you think he's helping you sell books. >> absolutely. and not only is he helping me sell books, but he's helping me prove the point of the book. this is extraordinary that a president of the united states would try to stop the publication of a book. this doesn't happen -- has not happened from other presidents, not even from a ceo of a mid-sized company. >> did you talk to the president, did you interview him for this book. >> i absolutely -- i absolutely spoke to the president. whether he realized it was an interview or not, i don't know. but it certainly was not off the record. my credibility is being questioned by a man who has less credibility than perhaps anyone who has ever walked on earth at this point. >> in axios today michaelen reports president trump is so fur yusus about the -- fur yus about the book some aides are trying to avoid him and some of

the staff are contemplating imminent departure and they are quite fearful about the next chapter of the trump presidency. i'm joined by new york times columnist michelle goldberg, and author charlie sykes and for the atlantic, rosie gray. let me start with you, just in terms of the reaction from donald trump here, look, it certainly seems from an outside advantage point to be impulsive, and seems to be consistent with trump as we've known him for a long time now. strategically inside that white house is there something they are trying to accomplish in terms of the threats of the lawsuit or tweeting or is this just trump lashing out. >> it looks to be donald trump lashing out. if you were thinking rationally and strategically about how to respond to this book, you wouldn't be reacting the way that he is. the president of the united states trying to stop publication of a book is a guarantee that it will get massive nationwide attention. so it is self-defeating what they are doing.

>> charlie, that is one of the things that strikes me too. when this news of this book first leaked, which a couple of days ago now, president trump put out that sort of extraordinary statement attacking steve bannon and kind of i think adding to the anticipation of this book. now it seems like the message he's trying to put out is don't believe it. guy had no access. nothing to see here. sort of contradictory messaging. >> no. and not only contradictory but as mentioned, self-defeating because it will be a blockbuster if not an hbo mini series. but you can keep two thoughts in your head at the same time which is number one, that there are flaws in this book. they're might be some questionable journalism but michael wolff. but it is also a devastating portrayal of what is going on in the white house. and confirming a lot of the other reporting that has been going on here. but again, i do think that -- if this white house had had a more strategic approach, they could

have actually done a more effective job in discrediting the book because there are some flaws. but the other problem is that most people are going, we knew the president of the united states is the way he's portrayed here. >> and that is one of the big questions that is emerging from this too. it is not about the individual anecdotes but the over all culture in the white house and wolff telling savannah guthrie, that many have questioned the president's fitness for office. >> one of the overarching themes is that according to your reports, everyone around the president, senior adviserss, family members, questions his intelligence and fitness for office. >> let me put a marker in the sand here. 100% of the people around here. i will tell you the one description that everyone gave. everyone has in common, they all

say he is like a child. and what they mean by that is he has a need for immediate gratification. it is all about him. >> and several allies of the president strongly pushed back on that today. >> frankly, any discussion on the president's mental fit ness if nothing but gossip and i've worked with his administration an that is sincerely not the case at all. >> there is just factualin accuracies in this book. nobody worked harder than donald trump. it is outrageous that he didn't expect to win and want to win. he worked his fingers to the bone. >> i'm around the president and quite a bit through the past year and i met him 20 years ago. he is not psychologically unfit. he is not lost it, as they said. it is just an absurd allegation by someone who is talked to disgruntled people at the white house. >> michelle, you have a column about this. so you've got -- wolff is saying

the universal characterization from everybody he talks to is that the president is like a child. that he is impulsive and petty. you have a column about what those folks in the white house -- if that is what they are thinking, what you think they ought to be doing. >> this is the story since the beginning. there is nobody close to donald trump who respects him. there is nobody close to donald trump who would trust him with the stewardship of their own small business or corner store or deli. and so all of these people who say that he's insane, he's erratic or irrational, he needs to be managed and yet -- and they say this kind of off the record as if they can salvage their own reputation by standing outside and they go on television, like kellyanne conway or the other people and insist that the emperor is fully clothed. it is not -- there's the partisan game and then the survival of this country and it

is not an exaggeration to say that is what is at stake when you have someone like donald trump who believes in his own expertise, who taunts north korea on twitter and making decisions with no input and sneaks around his aides when they feel like they are getting in the way of something he wants to do. >> and let me take it from the devil's advocate angle. from a staffer who feels all of these things that wolff is describing. the option is -- one option is gow public. you say i've been on the inside and i see this and want to sound at alarm publicly. what if that person is thinking i'm on the inside and i have some measure of access and coy shape how this president acts, maybe it is better if i keep my mouth shut and stay in here and just to make sure he doesn't do anything extreme. >> i think that's probably true of the national security people. a lot of the generals, mattis and some of the other figures, are doing something kind of

quietly heroic by sacrificing their reputation and the reputation will be tarnished to try to restrain this person who has no business in the oval office. but somebody in the communications department, some of the other figures, there is no plausible way in which they are actually making things better. even if that is what they are telling themselves to be able to sleep at night. and honestly, how they are able to live with themselves is a continuing enduring mystery to me. that i would love for someone to explain to me. >> charlie, it is -- all of these characterizations of president trump from this book, and it is not just from the book. we've seen other reporting for the last year in line with this but a lot of the characterizations and the reports were things we were talking about and being reported during the campaign. how much of a case of this is that the american people did get a look at these tendencies and this impulse and style and make some kind of judgment about that on the campaign. >> well, yes.

a lot of things that have happened should not have been a surprise. on the other hand, what we are seeing is a portrait being painted by -- these are his supporters, the people closest to him of a man who is manifestly unfit for office. we're talking about the staff and why they tip to defend him and enable him. what does it say about congressle republicans. if you are in washington, d.c. you've heard tstories and know the speculation and seen things and walk out of the white house and what you don't talk about, you continue to cast this in a completely different way, i think that one of the real tells here, whatever happens with the michael wolff book, is that if there are this many staffers, or this many people seeing the president of the united states behaving this way, this is not the last book that will be written or the last tell-all and you wonder, what is it like when the dam breaks and people say now i could tell you what was actually happening. now i could tell you what i

didn'tsy when i was on -- didn't say when i was on that cable show. and so that is going to pose a real problem, i think -- long-term for this trump white house and its defenders and enablers and rationalizers. >> and the mans who woez word -- whose words -- steve bannon and trump has bee sf-- bestowed on him, sloppy chief. and other people who have achieved that marker. >> noticed chuck schumer with fair tears. i'm going to ask him who was his acting coach. >> we have lying ted and little marco. >> as i say, crooked hillary. crazy bernie. he's a crazy man. i was being hit by polka honts as. that is elizabeth warren. >> little rocket man. he is a suck puppy. >> so rosie, i'm curious what

this could mean for the future of bannon and trump and with trump you're never out and maybe bannon could come back into alignment in the coming months, coming years. but does trump -- bestowing that nickname, does that mark bannon's permanent banishment from trump world? >> well, it is true that donald trump does have a pattern of welcoming people that he's ex communicated back into the fold. but not just the nickname. it is the fact that he put out a lengthy statement slamming bannon as having lost his mind, being a leaker, which is a very loaded thing in that world. and the -- the way donald trump reacted to the statements in this book. i think that is hard for bannon to come back from politically. in terms of his future work wise, as of right now he's still in charge of breitbart. the mercer family has cut him off but my sources told me that

was in the works before this. so bannon -- his 2018 project, his inter-party insurgency is in jeopard any in his future in the media, that is unresolved. >> we came into 2018 thinking that would be a major political story, bannon and the establishments and the primaries may not be what we're talking about this spring. thank you to all of you for joining us. and a programming note. michael wolff will join chris matthews on "hardball" this coming tuesday. 7:00 eastern. don't miss that. and coming up, that bombshell report from the new york times that trump had the white house counsel push jeff sessions not to recuse himself in the russia investigation. it is part of what may be an obstruction of justice case against the president and comes as two republican senators call for a criminal investigation against the author of the dossier, christopher steele. that is ahead. plus trump's quote, dishonest media awards, he promised to announce them on monday.

the late night comedy host all want a piece of the action. ands a trump huddled with republicans to plan for the mid terms, steve bannon has been left out in the cold. and finally, the "hardball" round table will tell us three things we'll be talking about this weekend. this is "hardball." where the action is. the center of the how canneighborhood?r house first, mix liquid gold velveeta with the one-two kick of ro*tel's diced tomatoes and spicy green chilies. then, find space for extra parking. lots and lots of parking.

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump's failed atem to prevent jeff sessions from recusing himself adds a new dimension no the possible obstruction of justice. he instructed don mcgahn to stop sessions, however he was unsuccessful and the president erupted in anger in front of numerous white house officials saying he needed his attorney general to protect him. the news comes after the president told the times in july that he disagreed with the decision enough to regret appointing him in the first place. >> sessions gets the job, right after he gets the job, he recuses himself. >> was that a mistake. >> well sessions should have never recused himself. and if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me

before he took the job and i would have picked somebody else. >> he gave you no heads up at all? >> zero. >> and meanwhile in a move sure to inflame partisan divisions, chuck grassley and lindsey graham of the judisciary refer n regard to russia meddling. they had reason to believe that a former british spy, christoph christopher steele lied about his contacts with reporters regarding information in the dossier and urged them to investigate. it is a partisan hit job because it was compiled as part of an opposition research effort for the clinton campaign. and joining me is richard blumenthal. thank you for joining us. this is your colleagues, your republican colleague gz on the committee saying to the just department there ought to be a criminal investigation of christopher steele, the author of this dossier. let me ask you first, the evidence that they say they've encountered that justified this investigation, have you seen

that evidence, are you aware of what their referring to here? >> i have seen no evidence. none whatsoever that would justify this criminal referral and i know of no such evidence stunningly and sadly this first major action by the republican leadership or the judiciary committee is aimed at someone who reported wrongdoing, rather than committed it. and very, very strangely it's apparently based on evidence that the department of justice already has. and may well have been provided to them by the department of justice. so it seems more like an effort to distract from the real priorities, what should be the priorities of the committee, namely looking into obstruction of justice, collaboration between the trump campaign and the russian meddling and even to discredit law enforcement agencies like the fbi. >> i'm just trying to get a

sense of what life is like on that committee right now. is this something you found out reading about in the press, is this something the committee has been discussing, have republicans been raising this. you haven't seen the evidence. are you at least vaguely aware of what they are rougher -- referring to or just hit out of the blew with this. >> that is a very, very important point. the fact that unfortunately that there was no consultation and no collaboration, which really runs against the grain of what traditionally should be a proper bipartisan investigation. there has been no real collaboration in this referral and in fact the efforts here should be focused on the committee's priorities, the russia meddling, obstruction of justice, the possible oversight of the department of justice, which is our mandate and our bipartisan purview. >> and lindsey graham said -- his argument is he wants mueller

to proceed unimpeded and thinks there ought to be looking into this issue of russia meddling and thinks there needs to be a kind of investigation into this dossier, into the whether the fbi was relying on what he sees as opposition research work. in terms of the russia meddling piece of it, do you think he -- do you think the republicans on that committee are taking that seriously? >> there is a really indisputable fact here which is that the fbi investigation of that russian meddling and the trump campaign collaboration was triggered by information dependent from fusion gps or christopher steele and we know from excellent reporting that it results from information from within the trump campaign, george papadapoulos talking to the australian ambassador and other intelligence sources. so this seems like a distraction

and a deflection of attention. >> senator richard blumenthal. a member of the judie -- judiciary committee. and thank you for joining us. and the president was unable to top the attorney general from recusing himself he said he expected his top law enforcement official to safeguard him. mr. trump then asked where is my roy cohn referring to his personal lawyer and fixer. he been mccarthy's top aide, his reference to roy cohn raises questions about how he views the independence of the justice department. in the mccarthy era worked for trump until he was disbarred in 196-for dishonesty, fraud and deceit and misrepresentation per "the washington post." i'm joined by political analyst and mia harris political and legal analyst. mia, let me start with you. in terms of the new reporting on

trump, a couple of pieces here, number one leaning on the white house counsel, don mcgahn to tell sessions you don't need to recuse yourself, you don't want you to recuse yourself. we know sessions did recuse himself. did he have to recuse himself in. >> well, i think it was politically atenable for him to stay in the role after the revelations. but in terms of the recusal you want to look at whether or not somebody has conflict of interest if you have a family member involved in the investigation, a financial conflict of interest. so there can be an actual conflict of interest, but it is also important whether there is an appearance of a conflict of interest. and then in this situation attorney general sessions was involved in the campaign, and he also had his own russia issues. in that he had failed to disclose meetings with russians during the campaign and then testified under oath that he no meetings with russians and so in terms of the integrity of the investigation, public confidence

in the investigation, he really had to recuse himself from this investigation. >> and matt, you've been reporting on this. take us through -- we have the anecdote, a window maybe into how trump views the department of justice, the attorney general and how he thinks the role they should be playing. he sees a role of personal profection -- protection. and there was i quote where he said he thought eric holder acted to protect barack obama, hint, hint there. jeff sessions you should be doing the same to me. >> it is remarkable given the republican criticism of attorney general eric holder during the obama administration, was pretty roundly that -- that he was just too chummy with president obama. and so it is interesting to see that that is what was most attractive to president trump about the holder era. there is no shortage of criticism from president trump about the obama era but he likes the fact that the attorney general was seen as a close ally

and friend of the president. it just does speak to what the trump administration, what the president sees the role of the attorney general is. we've heard donald trump say i have the right to do -- to do what i want and in the justice department and make decisions in the justice department and the reference to roy cohn is a reference to his own lawyer. where is the guy that will protect me. and jeff sessions was bound to recuse himself. in addition to the regular recusal, the justice department regulations are clear on questions if you are part of a campaign, you don't get to investigate any part of that campaign. so he was pretty far down the track of recusal when the pressure from the white house began, saying, no don't recuse yourself. >> and the times is saying the talk of firing james comey unserved in inside of the white house counsel and even led one of his deputies to mislead the president about his authority to fire the fbi director. in effect the lawyer led the president to believe he needed

to cause to fire comey, despite conducting research that showed he did not. maybe you could offer a little bit of a tutorial here for folks for me about the role of white house counsel and we're seeing the president going to mcgahn to play that more personal role, that personal protector role but the white house counsel is not supposed to enjoy that kind of' relationship with the president, is that correct. >> it is not inappropriate for the white house counsel to speak to the attorney general. that is the appropriate line of communication from the white house to the justice department. but what -- what is inappropriate is for example you gave the example of the deputy white house counsel, there is a fact of the propriety of what he did. as well as the sort of fact of what it illustrates and what i mean by that is that his role is not the private attorney for the president. his role is to be the attorney for the presidency. and in this instance, it looks like he was attempting to help

perhaps the save himself from himself. he understood that it would be problematic potentially under the circumstances for him to fire the attorney general. and so in that situation, his role is actually to provide candid, accurate truthful advice to the office of the presidency. but what i also thought was interesting about that snippet from the new york times article was what it illustrates in terms of everything else we're hearing about donald trump and the presidency and the white house. and the way that people who work directly with this president do not seem to have confidence in his ability to take information and process that information and to exercise reasonable judgment and discharge his duties as president. and in the situation in some ways this deputy white house counsel was probably the smartest person in the white house counsel office because he probably anticipated what it was that trump would do with that information and understood that it was headed nowhere good. >> it sounds like there was a strategic component to the

thinking there and then a projection of what the response would be. mia and matt, thank you to both of you for joining us. and up next, for your consideration, stephen colbert and the rest of the late night hosts launch bids to take home president trump's fake news awards. those are coming on monday and this is shou s"hardball," where action is. found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump tweeted this week,ly be announcing the most

dishonest and corrupt media awards of the year on monday at 5:00. subjects will cover dishonesty and bad reporting in various categories. from the fake news media. stay tuned. in response, late night hosts have submitted their own for your consideration ad like seen for the oscars. stephen colbert took out a billboard in times square on his show calling them the fake-ys. >> i'm excited for the most dishonest and corrupt media awards of the year. or as we call them in the business, the fakies. because nothing gives you more credibility than donald trump calling you a liar. i'm hoping to be nominated in all categories, including outstanding achievement in parenting george soros' talking point, best sound mixing, best chex mixing, least breitbarty, the eric trump memorial award for disappointment, fakest dishonesty, corruptest fakeness,

dishonestest corruption and smallest button. >> trevor took out an ad in the new york times tweeting donald trump prove you're not semi literal by reading our full page ad in the failing ny times. and samantha bee tweeted, nice try, the late shouw and daily show but we are sweeping and i'm joined by the cocreator of the daily show. this feels like an extension of what we were talk about at the top of the show where donald trump sends his lawyers after michael wolff in this new book and the best publicity this book could have and goes after the media with an award like this. they are salivating over this. >> what is so funny. the brick doesn't fall far from the wall is how that goes. but it is so amazing that donald trump would actually have np award show the day after seth

meyers will scory ate him at the golden globes. he doesn't think things through and why there needs to be categoried because all of this is about one category. least supporting actor in a media role. because that is all he cares about, is loyalty towards him and he just wants to try to point fingers at people who didn't support him when if you are going to talk about -- if any of these late night hosts thought they were going to win, they clearly are going to lose and it is a sweep by michael wolff. >> well it is -- it is interesting, talking about late night, just because they seem to ginned up, the trump presidency and i think it was colbert and i was reading stories struggle to find a direction and taking over after letterman and maybe the ratings were weren't there. this is grift for late night

hosts. >> it is almost overwhelming. because in these kind of situations, there would be three times a week where you would hit a story that you could milk it for two or three days. and now when things happen every 20 minutes or there is a tweet storm, what is the date today? the fifth of january? and we've already had this explosive book, his tweet storm earlier in the week, and it is really hard to keep up and also and just follow things through. because it is like you write it and it goes away and it is dead. and so conceptionally, it is really fun to have something to hang your het on that goes to the awards on monday. which i can't witness for the red carpet. >> we're very curious if this is a ceremony or if he will say something on twitter or not. i'm curious, talking about late night television, it has gotten so political, so trump, there is a huge audience clearly out there for it. do you worry ever that it may in some ways further the divide because it is so built around trump and if you are on that

anti-trump side of the divide, you got late night television. but basically half the country was there voting for him, half of the electorate was voting for him. does this further the divide between that side of the country and the rest? >> i mean, i think that if the divide -- if you are still doubling down on defending trump, after the amassive amounts of falsehoods that he and his administration brought forward, and the terrifying brink he's bringing us to nuclear war, i think that that divide -- you're not going to bridge it by talking to people. you need to marginalize trump and do everything you can to prove that he's ridiculous. and so i think also it is pretty hard to not have it be politicized because trump weighs into everything. there is not a story in the news that happens that does not have his perimeter on it. he either have created the -- the mess or he's stepped in and dragged it around the world. and so that is what we're faced with as comedians.

by default you are a political satirist. >> and on 5:00 monday. liz winsted, thank you for joining us. up next, fresh off his feud with steve bannon, trump holds a meeting at camp david to plot the republican path in 2018 and it comes amid word that the president spoke with mitt romney, are the two ready to bury the hatchest. you're watching "hardball." ds... ...you could learn you're from ireland... ...donegal, ireland... ...and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes. just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com

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liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. switch and you could save $782 on home and auto insurance. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. welcome back to "hardball." president trump departed for camp david this afternoon following a week in which his ugly feud with steve bannon may have left his former strategist out in the cold for good. the president will huddle with republican congressional leaders this weekend. they're going to try to chart a course for the 2018 mid terms. meanwhile, a possible 2018 candidate, mitt romney out in utah spoke by phone with the president on thursday night. this is amid speculation he will run for the seat orrin hatch is

retiring from. politico saying the president wished romney best of luck in his future endeavors. and haley burns and former new york republican congressman nan heyworth from the independent women's forum and strategist tara doudel. thanks for being here. le me start on the news of the phone call between romney and trump. romney trashed trump during the campaign. romney may have been secretary of state after the campaign. now it looks ike he's doing to be' u.s. senator. he's a rock star in utah. utah republicans are not too crazy about trump. what is the white house's thinking about the prospect of romney coming to washington is this. >> well i think they anticipate if he were to come to washington that he could be this kind of thorn in the president's side. he's been a very outspoke ep critic of this president. that is no secret but there is a question of whether he would be. you've had people like jeff flake, bob corker, all having

scathing criticism and voted for major pieces of legislation like tax reform and health care and so forth. so i'm taking this call for what it is today. because remember that famous dinner that we saw the two of them at, only for romney to come out. but i think it is serving him well to show when he distances himself from the president and in a place like utah and when he agrees with him. >> i'm trying to figure out what romney has in mind here. because does he want to be sort of an elder statesman and take a senate seat and hold it. and when they run they get that potomac fever. does part of him think i go there to the senate, maybe i stand up to trump on something, maybe i get some good press and a year later, maybe it is a republican primary, maybe it is an independent. is there another run for the white house. >> i'm not thinking that romney is thinking about 2020. he is the type of man who i think is compelling to public service. he won utah by 72 -- 72% of the

vote in 2016 -- in 2012 rather. so his prospects are suburb that he will be the next senator but i think he is mission driven and sees this as an opportunity to serve. i don't think he's going there seeking to usurp the president. >> and romney's prospects look good in utah. but they are out there at camp david and republicans think tax reform at the end of the last year might help them. signs the economy -- it is moving along in a positive direction. they think maybe that could be their benefit at some point. as a democrat, are you looking ahead to the year. >> democrats are feeling positive about 2018. it is a measured positive reaction from democrat. they are going to hammer republicans on this tax bill. on this tax scam. that is what that is going to be the talking point, the continued hashtag, gop tax scam and what democrats have on their side is that the bill is unpopular,

we're at a time when there is amounts of wealth being held by 1% of our country, 40% of the wealth in the country is held by the top 1%, 60 years it hasn't been like this in 60 years. and so democrats will push that message and it is resonating because the bill is oun popular. >> and the word that is floating around, democrats -- maybe some are scared to say it is waive. they are hoping this is a wave election in the mid term and dozens of seats and get back the house. you wan in a wave election year. you got elected 63 republican pickups in house. >> it was amazing. >> do you feel an opposite wave -- a blue wave forming right now. >> i think the response to the tax bill -- the tax cuts is going to be overwhelmingly positive. there are lots of commentators who ordinarily wouldn't be disposed to support the president or the republicans who have expressed even to their somewhat astonishment that

people will benefit. they will start seeing the benefits very quickly in their paychecks. 2 million americans have been put back to work in just 27 20 17 under president trump. the economy is booking. and employment is at a record low. i think the democrats are dreaming if they're going to have a wave election. i just don't see it happening. >> 24, the imagine number for demes, they get the house back. the round table staying --. up next, joe biden responds to trump's taunt that he had a bigger nuclear button than north korea. you're watching "hardball." ♪ when i touch you like this

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in a new interview with "the new york times," new jersey governor chris christie reflects back on election night saying at time he expected to be heading to washington with president trump. he said his wife looked at me and said, are we going to washington and i said, i really don't know. but get ready. the governor adds, i think both of our expectations at that moment was that he would offer me something that i was willing to leave office to do. but in the end he never did. we'll be right back. abdominal pain... ...and diarrhea. but it's my anniversary. aw. sorry. we've got other plans. your recurring, unpredictable abdominal pain and diarrhea... ...may be irritable bowel syndrome with diarrhea, or ibs-d. you've tried over-the-counter treatments and lifestyle changes, but ibs-d can be really frustrating. talk to your doctor about viberzi,... ...a different way to treat ibs-d. viberzi is a prescription medication you take every day that helps proactively manage...

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with other world leaders. >> when we engage in activities like "let's compare the button," they all for different reasons and different motivations lose confidence in us. they wonder, do we know what the hell we're doing? i'm boar reworried they decide going to find separate ways to figure out how the do this. this can't be done in a way that doesn't have all the players in the game on the same page and i just think that -- and the other thing is, you know, you draw these lines and you don't respond, it diminishes your credibility. and it's just dangerous. >> a little interesting to hear him throw in the line at the end of the syria red line that obama drew in 2013 at one point. but joe biden tried to run in 2008 with his calling card being national security experience, authority, command on that.

all the concerns that are being raised about president trump, interesting to see joe biden inserting himself into this debate. >> well, remember joe biden's history, which i know you know very well, is he was also an expert on georgia and russia, right? so before there was ukraine and russia, before some of these other issues there was georgia and russia and that was something that joe biden was very much intimately involved with so his history and knowledge of russia and that region is very deep. the problem with trump is trump is trump and he's his own worst enemy. speaking of buttons, every world leader knows what button to push if you want to manipulate donald trump. the saudis know you just give him everything and make him feel good and put regalea on him and celebrate him. they know how to take advantage of him. the chinese know how to take advantage of him. russia knows how to take advantage which, by the way, russia was giving oil to north korea recently despite all of the efforts to try to tamp them down. and they can do that because there's no strategy. and people know that donald

trump is not serious. all of his business is on display on twitter for the world to see and these guys are very smart. all of our world leaders, men and women, are very smart and trump is easily manipulate and they see that. >> also in the interview, biden would not rule out a run for president in twen2020. he took a swipe at a democrat calling out another of the party's older contenders, vermont's bernie sanders. take a listen. >> howard deep said than said tg "the old people in the party need to get the hell out of the way." >> tell howard i can take him physically, okay? >> this is an interesting dynamic here, but biden -- >> the infighting is already starting. well, howard dean was talking about this during the dnc chair race. he backed one of the younger candidates for that. i think democrats are anxious already for 2020 and reasonably

so, they have to get through the midterms and an anti-trump strategy certainly works in the midterms because it will be a referendum on the president but in 2020 it's a different kind of bag. it's more of a vision and there are a lot -- i think democrats will have this problem of a lot of people interested in this race and a lot of people in this field. and biden, i think, there is -- he's inserting himself into these debates and he's making himself a presence and others are angling as well. >> biden against trump, if that's what it was, is that a strong or weak candidate for the democrats? >> i think it's a very strong candidate for president trump because what does vice president biden represent? he was the vice president for president obama whose -- who president trump is reversing in so many ways and proving, in fact, to our adversaries and/or friends that he is building our united states economy, he's building our military, he is showing great strength in leadership at the u.n. through nikki haley and through our relationships with other nations so i think he's going to

continue to build strength through to 2020 so if vice president biden wants to take him on as a symbol of the failed past, i think that would bode very well for president trump. >> that's the white house trump republican perspective right there on a biden/trump race. there's about 28 other options for democrats as well. round table staying with us. up next, three things you'll be talking about this weekend and michael wolff will be chuck todd's guest this sunday on "meet the press." you're watching "hardball." and cardiovascular risk? i asked my doctor. he told me about non-insulin victoza®. victoza® is not only proven to lower a1c and blood sugar, but for people with type 2 diabetes treating their cardiovascular disease, victoza® is also approved to lower the risk of major cv events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. and while not for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight.

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"hardball" round table. nan, tell me something i don't know. >> steve, stem cell therapy to combat ageing is going to be a growing field. dr. joshua hale at the university of miami has performed successful infusions on 30 elderly people and helped make them stronger. so look to that, look to stem cell therapy for combatting ageing in the months and years to come. >> kaitlin? >> big news in the senate map. republican josh mandel backed out of the ohio senate race today. republicans don't really have a top-tier challenger for sherrod brown which is important because trump won ohio by eight points and sherrod brown is talked about as a potential 2020 -- >> yes, one of the 28 names out there. tara? >> we need good news with the chaos and scandals so fewer people are getting cancer and fewer people are dying from cancer. so fewer people are getting cancer and also fewer people who get it are surviving. >> both pieces of very good news. great news to end the week on, as a matter of fact, tara,

thanks to all of you for joining us. that is "hardball" for now. thank you for being us and "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in,". >> senior advisers, family members, every one of them questions his intelligence and fitness for office. >> "fire and fury" is released. >> let me put a marker in the sand here. 100% of the people around him. >> reporter: the author of the book the president doesn't want you to read is speaking out for the first time. >> i will quote steve bannon "he's lost it." >> tonight, the full interview with "fire and fury" arthur michael wolff. >> i work like every journalist works so i have recordings. then my interview with the former trump adviser who called the president an idiot and a fool. >> trust me, i'm like a smart person. plus, the growing case for obstruction as the justice