oh, if only you could have heard the conversation we were having on the break. oh, no. we have to get out of the chair so she can sit with you. >> keep the conversation going. hello. from msnbc headquarters from new york. steve bannon back tracking on the comments made in "fire & fury." and the president saying sloppy steve is trying to make amends. president trump calling oscar wolf a fraud as he stands by his

comments on "meet the press." >> this is worse than anybody thought. if i left out anything, it was probably stuff even more damning. >> it's that bad? >> that bad. >> a never ending story with the president's tweets. will the administration turn the page on questions about the commander-in-chief's mental state? we begin with breaking news of transformation from sloppy steve bannon to, sorry, steve. steve bannon apologize together president about remarks he made in "fire & fury." donald trump jr. is both a patriot and good man, relentless in the advocacy for his father and agenda that helped turn our country around. his support is unwaivering for his agenda and i'm the only one to preach the message of trump and trumpism and stand in the breach for the efforts to make america great again. that apology shortly after wolf's latest defense on "meet

the press". he uses this in the metaphor, the wall. >> i think the entire narrative of this presidency and this candidacy, and then presidency, has been, it's going to hit a wall. and the thing that keeps everybody's attention absolutely riveted with global attention, is that if the train keeps going but the wall is still there. >> the train keeps going but the wall is still there. >> jeff live, with the apology from steve bannon, what did he have to say? >> the seven-part statement that never uses the word apology. steve bannon is said to be as stubborn as president trump is when admitting past mistakes. but his statement gives regret to president trump and apology to donald junior.

saying the meeting that donald junior attended at trump towers over the promise of hillary clinton, saying it was treasonous and unpatriotic. bannon saying the statements were directed at paul mania faf and that as a seasoned campaign runner, should have known better. the mercer family has cut ties with him and president trump said under no uncertain terms that steve bannon lost his mind. bannon's power, we should say, reflts rests on his proximity to the president. >> returning from camp david, there over the weekend republican congressional leadership, what was the white house said about what we accomplished at the retreat in maryland over the weekend? >> we met on the big ticket items from national secure it to immigration to coming up with an election strategy for 2018 mid term. the president tweet bed it

writing this, leaving camp david for the white house. great meetings with the cabinet and military on many important subjects including border security and desperately needed wall, the ever increasing drug and opiate problems. you can see the tweet on the screen. on the last issue, daca, protection for young people brought to the country illegally, saying that dominated many meetings at camp david. even though democrats were not present at those meetings, president trump said he intends to work with democrats as much as possible this coming year. that's a reflection of reality. republicans in the senate have the slimimist of majority. if they are passing any big tickets items, they need democratic help. >> thank you very much. to remind you as to what steve bannon quoted in the book "fire & fury", the three senior guy he

in the campaign thought was a good idea to meet in the conference room 2075th floor wi no lawyers. even if you thought that it was not traenousous or unprtic or bad, expletive, i happen to think that it's all of that. they're going to crack don junior like an egg on national tv. this is all about money-laundering. their path expletive trump goes right to paul man fort, don junior and jared kushner. it is as plane as the hair on their face. let's start with this apology from steve bannon here, after the sunday show finishing their tapings and live broadcast. what do you make of the timing and what steve bannon had to say? >> bannon wanted to apologize sooner immediately after the allegations documented in the

book came out. but i do think that you know, him losing the mercer funding, essentially is the driving force between now, his contrition in terms of some of the comments. but i think some of the comments is what was reported at the time. it is not that there are new revelations, it is just an insiders few into what is going on from the firsthand accounting inside the white house. we all know that what was going on based on reporting and now it is the people inside telling us what is going on. >> rachel, let me just get your reaction to the apology this morning and help me understand the role you think steve bannon will play going forward. solidly in the fold of of the trump administration. ex communicated the last few days. will this give him influence with the republican party? >> president trump famously accepts groveling as a means of

apology. but i think bannon is instrumental in some respects in taking trumpism and making it a message that resonates with people. to the extent he continues to do that, that's a matter for the president to decide. i think it is possible you see him back in the fold in the near future assuming there is no groveling in between. >> david jolly, about that word, that trumpism, do we have a definition of it and how much of that definition is created by steve bannon? >> it is steve bannon. listen, no secret these two will make up and be a team going into 2018 where donald trump lost for fame, steve bannon lusts for full power. he knows that comes by being close to donald trump. they share sympathy for neonationalism. there are people who question reporting in michael wolff's book. and he stands by it. but there are people who have questioned it. early story out of book is all about what steve bannon said about donald trump.

it is all about steve bannon's distancing himself from trump, criticizing the trump family. if steve bannon is the one person who begins to say none of that is true, i didn't say that, then it comes time for michael wolff to play tapes or not and allow donald trump to continue this beratement of michael wolff. >> i want to play an exchange that miller, adviser to trump, with jake tapper on cnn this morning. talking a bit about steve bannon. let's listen to what he had to say and what was a very heated exchange with jake tapper on cnn. >> the book is best understood as a work of very poorly written fiction. and i also will say that the author is a garbage author of a garbage book. the portrayal of of the president in the book, to my own experience having spent the last two years with him -- >> that continues about 12 minutes. let me ask you about the

president's tack here. he is talking about this book allot, engaging with what is in the book, said about him in the book. by all accounts that's adding to the sales of the book, popularity of it. what did you make of that strategy? how wise is it for this president to keep engaging with it? >> very unwise. but they smell blood. that's stephen miller trying to demonstrate he can be a stable genius to use the president's terminology. but steve bannon is the one person in the white house through loyalty that can fill steve bannon's shoes and he knows that. the stephen miller show bass wa an audience of one, ats and that's for the president. with the neonationalism that is the doctrine doesn't change just because bannon leaves the white house. this is the only clinging of power that donald trump is able to do to keep his base happy and he knows that. without it he is nothing. >> so much of the focus here son the president's mental stability in part because he keeps talking about it. but something else through this

book is his engagement with policy decisions. what he cares about. >> right. >> what he holds as dear or important. what did you take away from looking through this book about that? about the role of policy in this administration and to this president? >> essentially the president will agree on policy if you told him something five minutes ago. one of the things we've seen on not just in the reporting but also in this book is that president trump especially will argue for whoever five minutes ago told him that position is correct. that's a very troubling thing because we know by watching the president that he does not understand policy or the underlying details that good into making policy. but to the overall question about this book, the existence of this book and access that michael wolff got to these folks inside the white house is evidence of the argument and thesis presented in the book. the incompetence tense demonstrated in this book is evidence of the fact that he had the access in the first place. as former com staffer from the

hillary campaign, i cannot believe they allowed this reporter to essentially hang out inside the white house and just essentially be a fly on the wall. no press staffer said, why is that reporter here? why is he here? is he ochb the record? does he have a recorder? is he taking notes? those are basic level questions. the fact that he has documented the incompetence tenis evidence got access in the first place. >> how he acts and what he cares about and also a picture of the disfufrp dysfunction that was just mentioned within the white house, so so little of his attention seems to be centered on that, on defending the way his administration works or doesn't. >> i think michael wolff crossed a lot of lines when he wept after the president's family. i don't think anyone can blame president trump for being angry about that. i think michael wolff has hard time knowing what was true or made up. he told the post in 2001 he will say anything.

i think there is a lot of credibility problems with this books. when you look at the policy process what has come out of the white house in the last year it has been mammoth for a first year president. he has done almost everything he said he would do on the campaign trail. that's not reflective of what michael wolff presents. what we have seen is reflective after coherent strategy, policy staff that's competent. and i think the results speak for themselves. as far as i'm concerned the michael wolff book is tabloid fodder. >> how do you respond? we see the open questions about daca and immigration. he still talks about the wall. poolcy priorities he hasn't been able to go to. where do you see us going undfr here? >> we didn't have much done that the president can take credit for and yes contrast with democrats going in. here is the telling part about michael wolff's book.

he did most of this on deep background. which is the challenge for the author of the book. but this is most telling, the president himself is questioned about his mental fitness. in politics, if you are explaining, you ain't campaigning. if he is having to defend his mental fitness before the american people and world stage he has lost the message, he is losing the american people and is doing very poorly entering mid term election year. >> does he have to do it? does this have to continue? how do we see legislation coming back to washington. looking ahead to the prospect of government shut down in, what, 12 days. is this going to continue to this point? >> absolutely. with robert mueller continuing to work as we sit here today, robert mueller is working and his team is working. as long a the russia threat and investigation hangs over the head of the president, he is going to be acting more radically because it is clear that with the indictments and plea agreements we've seen so far he is getting closer and closer and closer to the top man and that definitely is make the

president feel some sort of stress. now, somebody who is mentally stable is not going to tweet things that could potentially lead closer to war with north korea. i think there is enough evidence in the president's own behavior that leads us to question his mental stability regardless of what is in this book. >> just about the relationship between the white house and republican leadership in the congress, looking at the press conference yesterday, studying the facial expressions behind them, i'm sure many would not have elected to be there talking about the president's mental acuity. there is a seamless connection between the president and members of congress on agenda items like daca, like immigration, like funding for the government going forward. >> you know, i that i relationship is always challenging between a president and his party leadership. going back to what congressman jolly said about trump not repealing and replacing obamacare, those are things congress failed to get done, not the president. i think trump has delivered on

his promises and so i think to the extent that congressional leadership can take a cue from trump that would be good. i think congress failed to deliver on a number of things. they need to step it up in 2018 if they get, save the head wind coming in the mid terms. and i think trump and the leadership are committed to doing that together. so i do think on that front they are going to work hand in hand more this year than they been. >> david jolly, quickly. >> that's a personality of the trumpism. he gets all of the credit and congress gets all the blame. that is trumpism. >> thanks to you all. still ahead, president trump'strump trying to keep fire and fire /*

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if they were strong it would be very helpful. you wouldn't have things like that happen where you can say whatever comes to your head. >> trump furious about the new book, "fire & fury." most people don't get mad, they get even. but in the president's case, when he gets mad, he sues. his lawyers sent a cease and desist letter to michael wolff's

office. then candidate trump was involved in 3 p 500 lawsuits, a number unprecedented for a nominee. the suit against the miss america contestant for defamation. against bill mar for jokes. another for low-balling his net worth. tim o'brien, you bring important experience here. you brought this book and the president reacted with this lawsuit. how much can you sympathize or empathize with michael wolff? >> i hope he has recordings and that will help his case. i empathize with anybody in the media and he gets his work done because of a very hostile administration toward the press. i think it's good that people who were the subjects of profile have the courts at their deposal to take on the people of the media who act responsibly or

irresponsible. i think it is good that that venue exists. it is on the press to make sure their work is done. actively and responsibly. i think with trump you have an unusual character because he is enormously thin-skinned. i think most attorneys pull their hair out when they have to advise him because he doesn't take advice. he is often times his own worst enemy. i suspect he is doing cart wheels every time trump threatens to sue. >> i wonder how you interpret threats he makes to journalists, institutions, foreign leaders. do you process them differently than you might other threats. >> he has a long history of doing it. he is a big saber rattler. more often than not trump doesn't follow through on legal threats. it is not just the media. historically he threatened to sue business competitors, and

media. he has done this at the foot of roy cone. he taught trump how to legalize the system and use it to intimidate people that trump wanted to intimidate to get or achieve a goal. i think from a media perspective, the media should stand strong and tall when the president bleeps about this kind of stuff because most of the time he won't follow through. >> he did call you a whack job and did follow through. >> he did. >> what did you learn interest this process fulling? >> in my case, i was at the "new york times" at the time. i touched own issues involving his net worth. only three pages of the book but that set him off. he is deeply, deeply insecure about his wealth. that's one of the things we learned fa this litigation is from a number of issues that he can't bear criticism around. his intellect, which is why he

says i'm a smart guy. his wealth, which is why he is always saying, i'm rich. his attractiveness to women, which is why he always says i can get dates. and of late, his mental stability. most of the times when he complains about those things is that he is insecure about them. we had the opportunity to put facts in front of him. he deposed him for 16 hours of deposition. put his own bank records, own tax returns, own business records. and he wasn't able to avoid the fact that we caught him lying on at least 30 different topics. that's the danger of trump in a lawsuit, he has to go through discovery. my publisher hired great attorneys. that's often not available to every writer. i think anyone covering him has to make sure they resource up if they go to war. >> have the army behind them. >> yes. >> you look at what has come out the last few weeks, the book certainly. other reporting that calls into question the work of his

administration. you see him tweeting about the stock market. tweeting about employment numbers. most recently, have you republican members of the senate judiciary committee. and a referral about steel. how does he use distraction when something like this happens? >> i'm one of the people i don't think he is in strategy. i don't think the president is a strategy thinker. i think most of the time he is randomly tweeting or jumping around between multiple topics is because that's who he is. he is really a 7-year-old grown old in many ways and he lacks the constraints of adults have to deal with stuff in a m methodicallyic way. sometimes it works to his benefit because it does change the topic. this week we began with consideration of whoever he would try to bomb north dreea and to finish the week about

whether or not he is stable and in between steve bannon and michael wolff. it's been a busy week. >> you look at the portrait and excerpts, and i know you are working your way through the book as well. there are so many moments in the book that highlights his eccentricities. he likes to eat at mcdonald's. he likes to get his friends' opinions at night about what he has done or not done. is there a lot here that is new to you? >> no. this book rings true to me. regardless of michael wolff's methods or how he went around getting interviews, this is a very authentic portrait both of how chaotic the white house is and how difficult it is to manage trump as a boss and policy maker. trump has always loved to eat junk food in front tst v watching sports or movies. he doesn't like to socialize.

he doesn't heed the advice of other people. the idea to get adults into the west wing with trump and they will manage him, i don't think anyone believes that that is going to happen. and certainly this book shows that on a day-to-day basis it hasn't. so i think this is a book that rings true. >> from everything i have read, there is weirdness to the orbit around president trump, people come in and come out. steve bannon issued this apology after being cast aside by statements made on twitter by the president. what get these guys back into the full fold? >> have you corey lieu win you lewandowski and kellyanne conway, and they had their own resume-building in mind. i think he saw trump as someone who embodied from of his own

goals. i think the way bannon left the white house is very different from others and i think it will be hard for him to come back in. >> all right, thank you very much. >> thank you, david. >> michael wolff continuing to unbook his book here tomorrow on msnbc. we will welcome him for his first cable tv interview. then he will sit down with lawrence o'donnell for a more in-depth conversation. visit msnbcnews.com/wolffbook. changing his tune on north korea, mr. trump claiming he got the rogue nation to the table. mom, i have to tell you something. dad,

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welcome back. on tuesday, north korea and south korea will hold official talks for the first time in more than two years. in the participation of the pyongyang winter olympics. >> about all of the failed experts weighing in does anybody really believe that talks and dialogue would be going on between north and south korea

right now if i wasn't firm, strong and willing to commit our total might against the north. the author of american tragedy in vietnam, we will talk about that book in a moment max. what we are seeing from this vis-a-vis north korea, you have many saying it is diplomatically led at this point. yes, there may be points for some military action but the focus is on diplomacy. how do you balance that with what we see, from rhetoric from the president of the united states? >> i think it is hard to say there is some kind of grand strategy here. it seems like trump is basically saying, anything that pops into his head. pretty striking on the issue of talks for example or consistently he was knocking down rex tillerson when tillerson was trying to have negotiations. leave it alone, rex, we've got it, stop talking. now there is a little bit of conversation going on between north and south korea and he said oh, all me. i'm going to take credit for it. i think that's a straech.

i think there's something going on between north and south korea to lead them to want to have discussion about the olympics but in terms of what trump is doing it is dangerous and destabilizing. there are good things that he is doing, ratcheting up talks about north korea. but saying my nuclear button is bigger than your nuclear button. it is inimaginable that any president would talk like that. >> there are moments of pu punctuation in the first year of his term, a big speech on afghanistan policy for instance, has he conveyed that successfully? do have you a clear form of what the policy is for this president? >> i think there are multiple. the impulses of donald trump himself is isolationist, protectionist, hostile to american allies and other foreign policy like hr mcmaster and professional civil servants in the white house and department of defense and so forth who believe in american

international leadership. there are those who think we should work with our allies. and so for example, in the national security strategy, they could be written by the professionals, sounding a lot like previous presidents. but no previous president would possibly come out and say you know, my nuclear button is bigger than yours. that's a uniquely trumpian plug. you have this tension going on between the president and the rest of the administration. >> looking at your book here a little bit, using afghanistan and iraq as a pivot point, there is a hardy debate, you weighed in on that many times over. edward lansdale, how much genesis has to do with what he did? >> a legendary cia strategist who helped to put done a communist serve ancy in the philippines in the 1950s then went to vietnam in 1954 and helped create the fate of south

vietnam p. he was a pioneer in what we call today counter insurgency. his belief is you would never defeat an insurgency with bombs and bullets. you have to beat it politically. you have to over the people a better alternative to what inturjents are offering. unfortunately his advice was ignored in vietnam. where moreland and the american military high command thought they could bomb the viet cong into oblivion. now i think you see what they dealt with in the 1950s and 1960s where you see corrupt government, ill illegitimate government, and insurgent groups as as americans our fall back reflex is to go out and kill insurgents. we are good that. we kill a lot of insurgents. today with drones rather than b-52 strikes. but we still tend to lose site of what lansdale was talking

about, which is the need to outgovern the other side. but the people will follow. and his bottom line is you will never defeat unsurgency unless can you do that, offer the people a government they want to follow. our failure to do better that is why there are wars in iraq and afghanistan, libya, somalia wab syria a syria and on and on and on. >> for isis, the geography that u.s. has taken and yet geography was important to isis to begin with. what is the effort of lansdale today? >> i think lansdale has a lot of resonance. he was a pioneer in the tactics we need to used to if we are truly going to defeat isis or the taliban. you know, one of the things that lansdale was a genius at was cultivating foreign leaders. something he did with ramon in

the philippines and siem in south vietnam. that is something we struggled with over the last 15, 16 years in afghanistan and iraq where we got side ways with our own allied and he was a seenus in working with people like that because he wouldn't lecture to them, he would listen to them. it sounds simple. but we americans love to lecture. and we love to lay down nonnegotiable demands that often back fires. the lansdale methodology was to gain their confidence and then listen to them and basically rephrase what they were saying and subtly transmit their own ideas instead of beating them over the head with it. this approach is much more effective. it is better than the intervention with hundreds of thousands of troops. you can buckle up a leader, gain

their confidence, and have them fight the battle instead of sending in your own troops. that is something we can learn today in the jihadist battle fields. >> thank you very much for the time. that's the author of "the road not taken", over the tragedy in vietnam. >> time sensitive issues on the trump agenda and some he did not mention. is the best way to get that fish to your plate safely. (dane chauvel) sometimes the product arrives, and the cold chain has been interrupted, and we need to be able to identify where in the cold chain that occurred. (tom villa) we took our world class network, and we developed devices to track environmental conditions. this device allows people to understand what's happening with the location, but also if it's too hot, if it's too cold, if it's been dropped... it's completely unique. (dennis woloshuck) if you have a sensor that can keep track of your product,

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into the white house quite a bit. and it was one of those things. that's why sloppy steve is now looking for a job. >> everybody tells me i'm not under investigation. maybe hillary is. i don't know. but i'm not. but there's been no collusion. there's been no crime. we need more republicans so we can really get the rest of the make america great again agenda passed. so i will actually be working for incumbents and anybody else that has my kind of thinking. >> president trump tackling an array of topic during hi trip to camp david. january kicks off a busy month for the commander-in-chief. on friday, president trump will undergo his first presidential physical exam. it'll be released publicly after it is conducted. they must pass a bill to fund the government or risk partial shut down at the end of the month. there will be joint sessions of congress.

scott, and shelby, shelby let me start with you. what happened last week when two members of the senate judiciary committee did a refers of christoph christopher steele. what is likely happening. >> it is getting increasingly political and ugly. at the end of the day everyone says mueller is driving this investigation. he is doing it privately but mueller will have ultimate say over what happens with president trump's presidency and also his aides and people around him who have been charged and could be charged in the future. so there's that. you also have this really ugly partisan debate shaping up over government funding and daca and millions of other things that congress has to get done. i thought that clip you just played is telling because president trump decided will campaign for incumbent. that will help with republicans in congress which is not always a smooth relationship.

i think that will really give the republican party a bit after boost heading into the mid terms. >> we sought president at camp dave wid many members of the republican leadership. what is it like as you talk to lawmakers between the white house and congress. this is pack aid genered agendat enumerated. how is it with republican members at the white house? >> that's the interesting thing about the michael wolff week and the questions about is the president stable? is the president engaged in policy? does he spend all day raging at cable news? going into 2018, president trump, mitch mcconnell, paul ryan and republicans were going into the year on a high note. they passed the tax overhaul. massive accomplishment that their base and their donors and they themselves have been wanting to get done for years. they were feeling good about themselves. now it is a week of conversations about how is the white house being managed. you saw out of meetings they don't have a clear agreed upon

game plan for for the rest of the year. some people want to do welfare reform. there don't seem to be enough votes for that. it is clear and the next few weeks are jam packed with government funding and some sort of solution or no solution on the daca issue. >> the president tweeting, great meetings with the cabinet and military on many important subjects including the border security and desperately needed wall. the ever increasing drug and opioid problem. do you sense that there is a clear message here about what white house would like do first. >>? the white house wants to do a lot of things. so clear message, i mean, the tweet speaks for itself. i do think that president trump made it clear his priority is a border wall and continues to be a border wall. he is using that leverage when it comes to passing daca. he said no daca deal without a

border wall. which is an $18 billion price tag. democrats have to decide whether or not that's worth it. we are hearing democrats split over this. some say it won't be worth negotiating with the president. they should obstruct and some are are laying markers out saying daca is an emergency and we need to get this done. ? terms of the white house and what we hear from paul ryan and mitch mcconnell, there is no clear message. we know paul ryan want to deal with reform, mitch mcconnell isn't interested. it will be interesting to see if trump drives the this year or if he sits back. >> what is your thoughts on the prospect after shut down? >> democrats say we are willing to bolster existing border security and instfrastructure. i think where you lose willingness to make a trade is if you expand hundreds of millions of miles of wall.

that's what this plan is. that's where you see dick durbin and bernie sanders saying that the an unacceptable trade. the problems democrats have is their only real leverage is to shut down government and leaders don't want to do that for this issue. still ahead, stars and scandal, one of hollywood's biggest nights overshadowed by sexual harassment and it marred the television industry. how the golden globes could be the opportunity to continue the conversation. er does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management.

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welcome back. i'm david gura. tonight the 75th annual golden globes on nbc will be unlike previous awards shows. many attendees plan to send a powerful message standing together. they are set to wear all black on the red carpet in solidarity for victims of sexual misconduct. dozens of women are expected to participate, even actors like the rock and tom hiddleston participating as well. host seth meyers addressed how he will tackle the elephant in the room, telling "vanity fair," "for as bad as the stories we've heard have been bad, and they've been really bad, i feel like there's a chance, and this idea, that there's a moment of empowering happening and maybe this course of history is going to change, hopefully we can talk about it and the way it is drawing attention and what it means going forward. here is eric deggins.

let me get your sense of how the me too movement, the times up movement, how they're going to intersect with tonight? >> they'll intersect in a lot of ways. as you mentioned, many high-profile actresses have said they're going to wear black in honor of recognizing this movement. we've also heard that some actresses connected to the times up movement, which is an antiharassment movement that involves stake a legal defense fund, they're going to bring activists with them on the red carpet so that when they're interviewed about their projects, they can also let these activists speak to the issues directly to the media that will be covering the event. there are also going to be some pins circulated that will have the timesup logo featured on them, and i think there's a sense that everyone is going to be talking about this, because it's the issue that faces hollywood right now. and generally, the golden globes is a chance to celebrate hollywood. it's one of hollywood's finest moments. but there's this issue on the

table that is one of hollywood's darkest moments. and so, the balancing act is going to be how do you celebrate some of the best in motion pictures and television while also talking about something that is one of the worst scandals to affect hollywood in recent years. that will be the balancing act we see tonight and it will be interesting to watch it play out. >> eric, how much is it in the water, how much agreement is there about this being a big issue hollywood needs to deal with? in the "post" today, unnamed member of the board of governors of motion picture sciences saying they were quickly forced to get rid of harvey weinstein. what does that say to you about where hollywood is at this point? in other words, a few months after these allegations first broke in "the new york times," where do things stand with that conversation? >> i think you can't underestimate how entrenched this culture in hollywood is that prioritizes and advantages males, especially white males. and so, i'm sure there's been behind-the-scenes resistance to

talking about this and questioning whether there's been a rush to judgment in some cases. but i think by and large, what we've seen is stories that have been whispered about, things women have said to themselves or to people close to them, they're finally becoming public. and when they do become public and the court of public opinion gets to see this stuff and judge it for themselves, they understand how ugly it is, they understand how unfair it is. and so, whenever you have a paradigm shift like this, there are going to be people who feel uncomfortable, people who feel scared. but frankly, it's more than about time to have this conversation. and i think the horse is out of the barn. it can't be held back now. and now the question is, is it a moment, or is it a movement? and i think we have a lot of women, a lot of activists are pushing now to make sure that it's a movement and not just a moment in time. >> yeah, on that point, how much does this matter, an awards ceremony like this one? i think back two years to the uproar about diversity in the movies presented to the academy for the academy awards, the oscars so white movement.

did that have an effect? when you look at the tv and movies that have been made since, did that protest or active uproar lead to the change that we're seeing? >> it's interesting. i'm primarily a tv critic, and what i've noticed is there's been much more progression in television. there's been sustained protests, i think, about black diversity in television and in movies, but there seems to have been more ground made in television. and one of the things that surprised me, for example, about the golden globes nominations, is that they weren't very good in terms of ethnic diversity, particularly on the tv side. we did see a lot of great nominations for women, though. and you know, "big little lies" on hbo is expected to do well, got six nominations, the most nominated tv show in the golden globe awards. so while some progress on some fronts, we also don't have enough progress on every front. and this is something that's very important. sometimes it's hard for hollywood to focus on multiple things at once, but i think it's

important for people who have been marginalized to find their voice and to be featured fairly. and that's all that i think people are wanting right now, and that's what they're pushing for, both for women and for people of color. >> eric, always good to read you, to hear you, great to talk to you as well. eric deggans from los angeles, ahead of the golden globes. unwatch "the 75th annual golden globe awards" tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern. steve bannon sends an olive branch to the oval office via mike allen of axios. the aftermath of the tell-all "fire and fury" in the white house. can the romance be redind kinkr? hey, need fast heartburn relief?

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hello, everybody. i'm david gura at msnbc headquarters in new york. expressing regret, breitbart's steve bannon writing an apology to president trump, but after attacking his family and his leadership style, will it be enough to put the person the president's called sloppy steve back in good graces? not holding back after a weekend of mapping out 2018 with republican leadership, the president puts his intellect, the media, as well as the book he calls fake front and center. >> one of the things i think about this book and why it's hit such a chord and become this cultural moment is it's given everybody this focused opportunity to say, holy crap. >> political football. alabama and georgia taking