see how invisalign® treatment can shape your smile up to 50% faster today at invisalign.com tonight, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. welcome to 2018. this is "kasie dc." ♪ welcome to "kasie dc." we are live every sunday night, 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern from washington. 2018 is shaping up to be a sequel to 2017. or is it another chapter or is it just groundhog day? tonight, inside the biggest book to hit washington since this town and the news worm hole that followed. plus, i talked to senator cory gardner. he's threatening to block justice department nominees and is an open feud with the

attorney general over marijuana. and the president tries to kickstart his agenda for 2018. will d.r.e.a.m.ers get to stay? congressman joaquin castro joins me live. plus, reports the clinton foundation and clinton e-mails are being investigated again. congressman eric swalwell joins for that. and brand-new reporting on natasha viselitskaya apparent meeting with ivanka trump. we start with the president and his administration making the case that he is like really smart. a very stable genius who is more than fit to be president. it is a question raised by michael wolff's new book that the president felt compelled to answer. >> well, only because i went to the best colleges, or college. i went to a -- i had a situation where i was a very excellent student. came out, made millions and billions of dollars. became one of the top business people. and went to television and for

ten years was a tremendous success, as you probably have heard. ran for president one time and won and then i hear this guy that doesn't know me at all. by the way, did not interview me for -- he said he interviewed me for three hours in the white house. it didn't exist. it's in his imagination. >> i would have been delighted to have written a contrarian account here and donald trump, this unexpected president is actually going to succeed. okay. that's not the story. he is not going to succeed. this is worse than everybody thought. >> michael wolff says he did interview the president although it's fair to say his book has its shares of mistakes and inaccuracies. perhaps no one worked hard to make that point and settle the question of the president's fitness that senior policy adviser steven miller. this morning with jake tapper. arguably talking to an audience of one.

>> the author is a garbage author of a garbage book. i know it brings a lot of you guys a lot of joy to try to stick the knife in but the reality is page after page after page of the book is false. the reality is the president is a political genius who won against a field of 17 incredibly talented people who took down the bush dynasty, the clinton dyna dynasty, took down the entire media complex with its 90% negative coverage. all these so-called political geniuses in washington, whether it be at the big lobbying firms or -- >> the only person who has called himself a genius in the last week is the president. >> which happens to be a true statement. self-made billionaire who revolutionized reality tv. >> he's watching and happy you said that. i get it. >> there's one viewer that you care about right now and you're being obsequious in order to please him. >> you know who i care about?

>> i think i've wasted enough of my viewers' time. >> with that, the interview ended. after a break, jake welcoming his viewers, all of us, back to planet earth. as it turns out, the president was watching tweeting this morning in response to miller's appearance. joining me tonight to talk about all of this and more, politics editor at the daily beast, sam stein, national political reporter for axios, jonathan swan and reporter for the soerk associated press, catherine stein. >> what did we just say? >> i promise not to treat you the way steven miller did with jake. >> what did we witness there? i'm not sure if there are adjectives to describe it. it was performance art. obviously, donald trump -- i mean it was so obvious what was transpiring in the moment. we all anticipated that was going to transpire in the moment. when it happened, it wasn't that shocking that trump would tweet out that he was delighted with

the whole interview. but if the white house is objective this week has been to prove that donald trump is a sane, rational human being, they've done things that i just don't understand. for instance, sending out the senior policy adviser to watch him berate and go after a cable news host is not a sane thing. even that whole thing in the white house briefing room where sarah huckabee sanders played a video message from donald trump when he was 200 feet away down the hall is not a sane thing to do. so they are taking steps that only reinforce -- put aside donald trump's twitter feed. they are taking steps that only reinforce this notion that the president has something going on and is a little bit obsessed with cable news and vindictive toward his former aides. >> jonathan swan, you predicted this. we showed your tweet essentially saying this is what steven miller is going to go do. did he do that for the benefit of the white house? for the benefit of himself? he was viewed as being very

close to steve bannon, which jake tapper also pressed him on. >> so it was for the benefit of trump. trump was saying to people, he was calling people up this week saying you've got to choose between me and bannon. he's like, it's an easy choice. people were making that choice. what trump wanted them to do was go on tv and, quote, bury bannon. steven miller, who is perfect for trump because steven miller has been historically associated with steve bannon. they worked together on their hard-line immigration policies. but the fact is steven miller has not been close to boannon fr a long time. i'll give credit to the daily beast because they reported this months ago, and it was true. he reported that steven miller and julia had both turned against bannon. the white house denied it. they falsely denied it. the story was accurate at the time. everyone knew it and steven had this hilarious quote saying my friendship with steve is closer than ever.

that was laughed at by anyone that heard steve talk about bannon. he's been saying he's a self-promoter a leaker. this was his coming out party. >> quite a party it was. i want to talk about some reporting you did earlier today. after days and days of waiting, steve bannon appears to finally understand just how much damage he has done to himself. he released a lengthy statement today to jonathan swan backtracking the comments attributed to him in michael wolff's book. he says he, quote, his support is unwavering for the president and his agenda. wolff, of course, quoted bannon as calling donald trump jr.'s meeting with russians at trump tower in 2016 treasonous. bannon's statement reads in part, my comments were aimed at paul manafort, a seasoned campaign professional with experience and knowledge of how the russians operate. he should have known they are duplicitous, couning and not our friends. those comments were not aimed at don jr.

you cover the white house every day. is -- this seems like too little, too late to me. >> obviously, but -- >> i want to get your take. >> obviously the question is why now? after days of questions, days of open conflict and clearly there have been people around him probably encouraging him to do more sooner. and -- >> i love that face you make. >> but -- >> kicking and screaming towards that statement. >> and that statement is not a full apology. it's an expression of regret, but for steve bannon, this is a lot. it's a lot for him to make any. >> don jr. was too dumb to get blamed for that meeting. that's the underlying message of this statement. it's not an apology. he had to do this because the money and the support for his position at breitbart were very much threatened by this. >> he had to do something. the question is, does it -- what does it get him now as he's lost contact with the president, as he's lost a key financial backer? >> jonathan, you were alluding to how he got to this point.

what pressure has he been under from the white house? >> from the white house it's been clear they've said to everybody, you need to make that choice and sending people out to napalm steve bannon. his closest aides and allies have been begging him for days to issue this exact statement. >> what took him so long? >> his own pride. he's similar to donald trump. for steve bannon, this is a humiliating backdown. he sees this as a sign of weakness. he didn't want to come out and do this, but ultimately, he was completely crushed. he had no allies left. even his closest aides were bisically ready to abandon him. >> an interesting comparison to donald trump because it struck me and some on our team here that perhaps steve bannon's cardinal sin all along in the eyes of president trump has been to put himself in the spotlight. "fire and fury" isn't the first example of bannon going out and talking like this. in february of 2017, just days after president trump was sworn in, bannon graced the cover of "time" magazine, which labeled

him, quote, the great manipulator. michael wolff wrote, quote, for weeks after the "time" magazine cover story featuring bannon, there was hardly a conversation in which trump didn't refer to it bitterly. he views "time" covers as zero sum, said roger ailes. if someone else gets on it he doesn't. fast forward to july and josh green's book "devil's bargain" was released. and a day after his firing in august, bannon told the weekly standard, quote, the trump presidency that we fought for and won is over. he also did an interview with "60 minutes" and then took his show on the road pushing his agenda in speeches from japan to arizona to new hampshire. and then a few days before christmas, vanity fair's gabe sherman reports bannon is considering running for president in 2020. bannon told sherman he felt liberated once leaving the white house saying, i have power. i can actually drive things. in a certain direction. and, of course, there were

reports that the mercers pulled -- had been pulling their money away from him even earlier, before the book came ourkts partly because he was telling people they'd fund his bid for president. >> you lose a little of that image of the cunnikingmaker whe flirt with being the king. it's interesting. he is a fascinating character. he is a fascination for a lot of reporters. the question always has been, in my mind, how much do our fascinations with the reporting of his power correlate with reality? how much power does he hold? maybe we prop him up too much. but it's clear now in the wake of this book, at least, and with the mercers breaking off with him and everyone forced to choose a side and choosing trump that he feels, at least internally and is perceived as diminished. and whether he can turn that around is a really open question right now. there are a host of primaries that are coming up, senate and house primaries, that he and his political thiefdom are supposed to be big players in.

you're seeing candidates who would have begged for his support say, you know what? maybe i don't want it anymore. that's a remarkable turn around for just one week. >> if they have to make that choice you were talking about, between trump and bannon, it seems the choice for that is obvious. >> it's a clear choice. up until recently if bannon got on board with you it came with certain things. the key one being he was perceived with a line to the white house and that's no longer the case. it's important to note he was weakened politically after moore lost. that was a big blow for him and his political operation. >> roy moore in alabama. >> yes. >> i don't see how he's a factor in 2018. that he's the force that he was going to be to take on the establishment and mitch mcconnell. and a lot of these candidates saw steve bannon has access to big money as well. it was their conduit to the mercers and all of these other donors like the home depot founder. a lot of these people were connected to bannon. now that he's no longer that -- >> that's my big question in 2018 because it was really for some of these insurgent

candidates, it's the difference between 2010, when all of this was a surprise and now when suddenly they have have been well funded and had inf infrastructure behind them. perhaps the mercers will still continue to give them that. ken dilanian joins us with his brand-new reporting. the latest twist with na tallia viselitskaya and it involves ivanka trump. plus former governor haley barbour on the uncivil war that could break out in his home state. first, threats to block the trump administration judicial nominees. this time, the call coming from inside the party over marijuana policy. my interview with senator cory gardner. and as we go to break, then-candidate gardner on the campaign trail back in 2014. >> colorado is one of the first states in the country to legalize recreational use of marijuana. have you partaken since that -- >> no, i haven't. >> -- went through? >> no. and when it comes to the issue of marijuana, the founders of our country intended our states

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welcome back to "kasie dc." in perhaps the most controversial quote from michael wolff's book "fire and fury," steve bannon calls the infamous 2016 meeting with rush russians at trump tower treasonous and unpatriotic. a quote that bannon seems to walk back today in his apology. now nbc news has new reporting on that meeting involving ivanka

trump. let's bring in nbc news and intelligence national security reporter ken dilanian. walk us through this new report you have. what happened at trump tower that day that's new and does it matter. >> sure. the lawyer at the center of all of this, viselitskaya, has given an interview to nbc news. she told us she ran into on the way out of this meeting a blond haired woman she thought was ivanka trump but couldn't be sure because she wasn't formally introduced. i talked to a source who confirmed that was ivanka trump. my former colleagues at the l.a. times published a story that robert mueller was very interested in this encounter with ivanka trump. it shows that mueller is scrutinizing every detail of this trump tower meeting. what's interesting is he's doing it, we think now, not so much because he thinks this was evidence of collusion but more in the service of his investigation into obstruction of justice. because he's trying to figure out why donald trump months

later on july 2017 crafted a misleading statement about it on air force one where he says it was about russian adoptions and it manifestly was not. >> of course, the steve bannon, the claim that steve bannon made in this book is that there's no way that these people would have come into trump tower and not be taken up to that -- his office and introduced to the man himself. but they say jonathan, that that never happened? >> steven miller didn't deny it on tv today. i thought that was curious. i don't know if that's because he doesn't want to -- >> he claimed he didn't know. >> that's possible, i guess. i guess i actually e-mailed ty cobb, the president's lawyer after that exchange and just said could you clarify this? and he didn't respond. >> so we're reporting that we have a source familiar with the account given to the grand jury that that did not happen. what we don't know is when donald trump learned about the meeting. what his son told him and when. that's not been reported anywhere as far as i know. >> system, from your reporting you think the significance is in

him trying to build a case around obstruction of justice? >> exactly. >> attorney general jeff sessions took broad sides from all sides of his party this week. jim jordan and mark meadows penned an op-ed calling for sessions to resign over leaks out of the justice department's russia investigation. to add insult to injury, the attorney general was somewhat conspicuously left off the list of attend eaees for the republi retreat at camp david. sessions also took criticism for reversing obama-era marijuana policy. federal prosecutors can now decide how aggressively to enforce federal anti-pot laws, even in states where it's legal. i spoke to senator cory gardner who vowed to fight fire with fire. >> i was under the impression the attorney general didn't have an interest, wasn't going to -- didn't have intentions to rescind the cole memorandum. >> so what did the attorney general tell you when you met with him about what he was going to do about this? >> this is something i set up

specifically to address with then senator sessions to talk about how he'd approach marijuana, how he'd handle the issue of marijuana and colorado. it was clear this wasn't an agenda item and he had no plans to do this. and i believe he went back on his word. i believe this is a different policy that we just learned on twitter without any debate or dialogue with congress. >> why is this issue so important to colorado, to voters in your state? >> in colorado, years ago, 2012, 2013, they passed a legalization. passed overwhelmingly and it would do so again. it would probably pass by an even wider margin. if put before the voters. this is a laboratory of democracy. so that's what makes this issue important. our states were designed to be labor tos of democracy. colorado finds itself deep in the heart of the laboratory. when president trump came to colorado in 2016, he says it was a state's rights decision. >> so you think colorado should be able to do what it's doing. >> i think it's up to the

states. i'm a states person. it should be up to the states, absolutely. >> what i'd like to know from the attorney general is what has changed? what is different in president trump's opinion today? >> and this potentially could cost your state thousands, millions of dollars? >> hundreds of millions. this is a $2 billion industry in colorado right now. a lot of health impacts. i've supported legislation, sponsored legislation on cbd oils which can help children with epilepsy and other conditions. this would impact tens of thousands of people in colorado. it's about state's rights. what colorado had decided. and something that i believe went back on its word. what i'm asking for is to live up to the commitment made to me prior to his confirmation. >> what plans to encourage the attorney general to change this decision? >> what i told the attorney general today and i spoke to him, i told him i'm going to place a hold on department of justice nominees until he lives up to the commitment he made to me prior to his confirmation. no more nominations getting through until this changes. >> and have you -- has the majority leader decided this

will go along with you? >> people who are not going to be pleased with that decision but there's millions of people in colorado who aren't pleased with that decision either. >> will this cover judges or -- >> it's the doj appointees. u.s. marshals, u.s. attorneys as well. >> have you ever smoked pot? >> no, i haven't. i haven't. but, obviously, there's a lot of people in colorado who haven't smoked marijuana but still supported legalization. that's one of the most fascinating things about colorado. people didn't want to use it. they never used it. they wouldn't use it but still supported legalization. state's rights issue. >> sam stein, have you ever smoked pot? >> yes. a lot of people smoke pot. >> i'll have to be more specific next time i talk to you. >> i was struck in a way -- this isn't all that serious but i'm struck at how defensive even republican politicians now are about marijuana. especially, obviously, when their states are laboratories of democracy and have legalized or partially legalized or allowed

it for medicinal use. it goes to show you this is an issue that an enterprising politician would be wise to get in front of. it polls overwhelmingly popular in gallup opinion polls and i'm also surprised there are not more democratic presidential aspirance beyond the cory bookers and bernie sanders of the world who are pushing for full-on legalization. i do think one of the -- >> recreational use? >> yes. one of the outcomes of session' policy will be a backlash and you'll see more people go and say, you know, we should have a federal recreational legalization. >> ken dilanian, i want to ask you about jeff sessions more broadly and kind of the place that he finds himself in within this administration. is there a sense among the department of justice, the sources that you talk to, that he still is in real danger? or that the administration has sort of decided we're going to let this lie because at the end of the day it would be worse off for us in the context of the russia investigation if we fired

him. >> there's a lot of people deeply, deeply concerned that trump will go all in. and attempt to fire robert mueller in some way. and do that by removing jeff sessions and putting in an acting attorney general who could then reassert control of the russia investigation. sessions is also getting it from republicans on the hill who want him to more aggressively investigate hillary clinton scandals. and he's doing it actually. and they are happy with that. it's been -- it was reported this week the fbi is reopening an investigation into the clinton foundation. and we reported they were taking another look at the uranium one scandal. so sessions is throwing them a little red meat but not quite enough. he's getting it from all sides here. >> he can't win. the most telling quote, we think it was "the new york times," that reported that donald trump says, where is my roy cohn and roy cohn was his -- frankly, a thug. >> roy cohn being the -- >> joe mccarthy's defender was trump's lawyer. very hard-nosed guy. had mob contacts and would go to

the mat to do anything to defend trump. trump wants his attorney general to do the same for him. he doesn't want to understand the importance of situation there. he recused himself because he wanted to create that situation and now, you know, he's trying to throw trump these bones and sort of these leaks he's now looking at the clintons again. but it's never going to be enough because of the original sin which trump has still never forgiven him for. >> i find to hard to believe that he could find an attorney general who was actually more loyal to him, that would ever, under any circumstances, get through the u.s. senate. >> it is interesting because jeff sessions has been such a long, loyal supporter. has been with him for so long. this is happening. but you mentioned he wasn't invited to camp david this weekend. and his office was fairly terse in their explanation. they weren't invited. didn't really elaborate. the white house says it's got nothing to do with any kind of

politics. the toings topics he works on, issues weren't being addressed. lots of cabinets weren't going to be there and we, the media, are politicizing it. many did note that. >> ken dilanian, thanks for being with us. catherine loos catherine lucey. eel get to the president's shrinking schedule. we'll get him to explain. and states of play. inside the mad cap world of mississippi politics. the former governor haley barbour is standing by to talk about that and the state of his party as the midterms approach. he joins us live, next. [ gasps, laughs ] you ever feel like... cliché foil characters scheming against a top insurer for no reason? nah. so, why don't we like flo?

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roger wicker is mcconnell yes man. and mcconnell is hardly a conservative. his score is conservative review was a 48. that's better than wicker's. but it's not what we need in the united states senate. and that's precisely what mississippi is saying. mississippi expects conservatives to fight for us in the senate. not to go up there and rubber stamp anything mitch mcconnell says. right now we consider mitch mcconnell part of the problem. >> no state has more political intrigue heading into 2018 than mississippi. with the possibility that both senate seats could be on the

ballot in the fall. it's widely speculated that thad cochran will retire from the senate some time soon. at the same time, mississippi's other senate seat will be on the ballot. that seat held by republican roger wicker who could face a primary challenge from chris mcdaniel who you just heard from. of course, mcdaniel had been a favorite of steve bannon. joining me, former mississippi governor and former rnc chairman haley barbour. thank you for being here tonight. i really appreciate it. the race with chris mcdaniel is a kind of narrow way of looking at a broader problem that your party has been grappling with for some years but under president trump it's gotten particularly acute. do you think that -- what is the future of the republican party? you once led it. did doesn't seem to look much like the party you were in charge of anymore. >> if you take what you all are talking about there, mississippi, those who think senator cochran is about to step

down, i think have another thing coming. he's a lot tougher than people think. he has had some health issues but he's -- >> you don't think he'll retire before the end of the year? you think he'll not retire before the end of his term? >> i would be surprised if he does. he believes in getting the job done. he's been doing it for us, this is his seventh term. as far as wicker is concerned. who knows if mcdaniel is going to run. he hasn't made a decision, he says. and he will find, i think, this time that unlike senator cochran whose team really took it for granted. senator cochran had been re-elected by 50 points in the past and they weren't prepared. senator wicker is prepared. and he works hard. chairman of the republican senatorial campaign committee last time when they did very well. so i'm not sure mississippi will be the interesting state that some of y'all think it's going to be. >> it does seem as though

mcdaniel has put off, we were expecting him to announce a decision before now or based on the reporting i was doing behind the scenes. the one argument may be the difference would have been infrastructure money. he didn't have that when he ran against cochran. that is what steve bannon was promising. big superpac money from a family like the mercers. that would be a potential new twist. >> in the primary, when senator cochran ran in 2014, cochran was outspent $7 million to $4 million by mcdaniel. 90% of that. he did have that kind of money the last time. he did outspend cochran in the race and cochran finally took it seriously after the first primary and won the election. but we'll see what happens. and i thought it was interesting. mcdaniel did nothing for trump. you can't find one newspaper

story where he went out campaigning for trump. ted cruz's chairman. he didn't go out campaigning. our governor phil bryant went all over the country campaigning for president trump in 2016. you won't find one article where mcdaniel did that. >> so you would say that perhaps roger wicker is the pro-trump candidate in that race? >> i would just say this. wicker has been a very good member like cochran has been a very good member. when donald trump needed him, they've been there over and over and offver because that's what e people of mississippi want. >> talk to me about mitch mcconnell. he's becoming kind of the -- he himself has said he doesn't need republican candidates across the map to say hey, you're with me because they are getting pressed in many places where there are potential primaries about mcconnell essentially being the evil member of the republican establishment, the darth vader, if you will.

do you think that mcconnell is helping the party from that perspective, or does he need to take a step back? >> of course, he is really helping president trump in the senate. until you look at the nominations, the judges that have been confirmed and the democrats fight him every step of the way. there is no bipartisanship. >> do you think president trump knows what mitch mcconnell is doing for him? >> he's increasingly started to say it, but any time you are the leader and you've got tiny, tiny, tiny margins, i think peop people ought to be proud of our leadership. two-vote margin, we were able to pass tax reform in a matter of months. i was in the reagan white house when we passed the last big tax reform. it took more than two years. so i never thought they'd get it done last year. but they did. it's a huge accomplishment. they're going to go back to health care reform because they only lost by one vote on health care for them. it took the obama people 14

months to do obamacare. and they had 60 democrat senators most of the time. we've never had more than 52 in this administration. >> you did lose one in alabama which brings me to another question and sort of more broadly across the landscape. republicans seem to be looking at a potential bloodbath in 2018. potentially losing the house. do you see that as a realistic possibility? >> look. in every election, everything is a realistic possibility. you know, one of the things we understand here, the republican majority in the house is rather small. we only have about a 23-seat majority or something like that. >> democrats need 24. >> the democrats on the other hand in the senate have 25 democrat senate races. we've only got nine. now three of our nine are going to be open seats, because -- and there may be more. but the map actually favors the republicans. i think it's very hard for the democrats -- >> so you don't see a wave? you don't see an anti-trump wave?

>> not all of america is like suburban washington. >> okay. what about what we've seen in alabama? you write that off as roy moore being so deeply flawed? >> i write off alabama that the person who was appointed by the governor got beat in the primary because the governor was so unpopular, and he resigned under scandal. and that's what beat senator strange. and then, of course, what came out about roy moore, i don't know roy moore. i don't know any of those -- never heard any of that before, but the people of alabama believed that. and they had every right to believe that. and the guy still only lost by one point. >> and what about virginia? the results in virginia where you saw this democratic -- >> the republican candidate for governor got more votes than any other candidate in virginia in the history of the state except for the guy who beat him. >> right. >> when bob mcdonnell got elected governor of virginia, he won by 18 points and got fewer votes but --

>> you don't see -- >> all of america is not suburban washington. suburban washington's recession-proof. so where most of america the economy is the biggest issue, it's not in washington. >> okay. so you think that republicans keep the house, keep the senate? >> it's a long way before you say that. but i think the idea that there's a foregone conclusion, there's a wave election, is something that goes way beyond what i consider credibility today. we'll see. we won 63 seats. we won 63 new republican house members in 1994 when i was chairman. net gain of 54. we didn't know it until the next day. the idea that you know a wave election is coming ten months before the election -- >> unrealistic. one final question, yes or no answer, do you believe president trump is fit for office? >> yes. better than hillary clinton.

>> governor haley barbour, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. still to come, renewed interest in clinton world. democrat eric swalwell joins us next. "kasie dc" is back after this. except for these two fellows. this time next year, we're gonna be sitting on an egg. i think we're getting close! make a u-turn... u-turn? recalculating... man, we are never gonna breed. just give it a second. you will arrive in 92 days. nah, nuh-uh. nope, nope, nope. you know who i'm gonna follow? my instincts. as long as gps can still get you lost, you can count on geico saving folks money. i'm breeding, man. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

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>> welcome back to "kasie dc." it's january of 2018. and the daily beast reports the department of justice is taking yet another look at hillary clinton's use of a private e-mail server. the report sources a person described as a sessions ally familiar with the thinking inside the justice department. the doj spokesperson declined to comment for the story. meanwhile, in a new report, law enforcement officials and a witness tell the hill the fbi has launched a separate investigation into the clinton foundation to see whether it engaged in pay to play politics or illegal tax activity while clinton served as secretary of state. administration officials tell nbc's pete williams that investigation has been going on for months. the clinton foundation spokesperson issued the following statement to nbc news saying, time after time, the clinton foundation has been subjected to politically motivated allegations. and time after time, these allegations have been proven false. of course, there's this.

by the order of jeff sessions, justice department prosecutors have begun asking fbi agents to explain evidence related to what has become known as the uranium one deal. let's bring in democratic congressman eric swalwell who is on the judiciary and intelligence committees. of course, back with me, sam stein and jonathan swan as well. congressman, thank you for coming in tonight. >> of course. >> can you explain, put in context why this is happening. what is going on. and in your view, this -- this seems to be just a distraction from the russia issue at hand. what do you know behind the scenes on capitol hill? >> it looks like you see actors of jeff sessions and others at the department of justice who are bending to the president's campaign promises by investigating hillary clinton, reopening the uranium one questions that were put to bed and no evidence was ever shown. it's not clear on the clinton foundation investigation what is driving that. if it's facts on the ground, that's fine. they should investigate it. but if it's because the

president or jeff sessions asked them to do that, that's wrong. and i think jeff sessions should come to our committee, the judiciary committee and answer questions about just what exactly is driving these investigations. >> the chairman of the house intelligence committee devin nunes has been pushing the doj for documents, testimony around the issues that are not entirely in the public eye but that are related somewhat to this. also to some other questions. is the information that nunes and he and the house speaker came to an agreement with rod rosenstein who came in to meet with ryan at the capitol i guess last week and they came to an agreement to give you some of this information. is that information that they're sharing with democrats on the committee in do you know what you're going to see? >> we're going to find out about that tomorrow when we return to the hill. we should see it. chairman nunes' interest in this case is about what and how the dossier was prepared. who paid for it and whether it was used by the fbi.

he's not concerned at all about what was alleged in the dossier that donald trump had been banked by the russians that donald trump's team was working with the russians and some of the other allegations. i think, you know, if he wants to understand who paid for it, fine. but what was alleged is pretty concerning as to whether the russians have something on the president of the united states. >> you mentioned the dossier. senator lindsey graham actually appeared on "meet the press" and told chuck todd why he wants the doj to take a closer look at that firm that put together the infamous trump dossier. here's what graham had to say. >> i want a special counsel to look at not only how mr. steele conducted himself, what the fbi did with the dossier, whether mr. ore whose wife worked for fusion gps alongside mr. steele, what involvement did he have in the dossier? and i want to find out if the lead investigator of the clinton, mail investigation had a political bias against trump for clinton to the point it was a sham investigation.

>> this sort of -- it's almost an obsession over the steele dossier from the republicans. >> senator graham looks like a man possessed. he was something, you know, who i think understood who donald trump was when he was candidate graham. and now to see him just parrot these talking points that you're seeing from devin nunes and conservative voices where it seems there's no end or floor of the fbi building they wouldn't be willing to burn down just to advance the narrative of the president. >> sam stein, that was your reporting. >> well, the bigger picture here is, at least in my estimation, a delegitimizing of the investigative bodies looking into donald trump. i don't think it's hidden. i think they're doing it in plain sight. separately from those investigative bodies, there's the committee that you sit on which is doing its own investigation, which is having its own difficult time trying to come to a valid and agreed upon conclusion. as you sit here right now, what do you -- what is the percentage chance you put on your investigation being closed down, put to it by the majority at the

end of the month? >> i hope not but it feels that way. we don't have many witnesses scheduled beyond the next couple of days. there are many witnesses we should hear from. the majority of the witnesses have come in, not under subpoena. a lot of them will just say, i don't want to answer that. we have no way to force them to answer. >> let's say they do shut it down. we're done. we've gone at this for almost a year. we've gotten to a place we're comfortable with our conclusions and you disagree and the minority disagrees with those conclusions. what powers, if any, do people on the minority, such as yourself have to make their opinions known or to maybe even counteract that report? >> we're united as democrats to get as much information out as possible. whether it's in a cohesive way or not. >> okay. >> congressman eric swalwell, thanks for coming in tonight. when we come back, your first look at jonathan swan's latest scoop. we've been resisting talking about this so far all show.

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but he hasoke up wwork to do.in. so he took aleve. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. welcome back to "kasie dc." jonathan swan, we've been talking about this all evening.

explain your latest scoop. the president's schedule is rather abbreviated now? >> yes, it's been secretly shrinking for a number of months but the public doesn't necessarily know about it. there's two schedules, the schedule that they release to the media and the public and then the real schedule, which has all of his time actually blocked out. trump has a big block of time in the morning, 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. labeled executive time but the reality is it's spent in the residence watching tv, on twitter, making phone calls. his first meeting of the day is 11:00 a.m. that's when he walks into the oval office. >> that sounds nice. >> this isn't pacific time. 11:00 a.m. eastern standard time. >> what would you do with your executive time? >> i don't know why this story is affecting me so much, but it is fascinating, enraging, wonderful and insane all at once. i suppose if you're someone who feels like you don't want this

president to have his hands on the buttons, this is a good thing, right? like, you don't have to do much. >> you reported that he essentially -- this is the time that he watches tv and tweets and is unsupervised. >> my father is retired. if you replace john kelly and my mom and replace h.r. mcmaster and -- they have the same schedule. they literally watch about the same amount of cable news and have the same schedule. i don't think my retired father should have the same schedules a the president of the united states. i just think that's insane. now, if you think you don't want trump to be doing all of this work, maybe that's a good thing. >> jonathan swan, it's interesting to me that people inside the white house felt compelled to share with you the details of the president's private schedule. that's not necessarily something that we are privacy to every day. >> no. >> okay. we're going to have to leave it there. sam stein, thank you so much. still to come tonight, another hour of "kasie dc." we're going to talk about the

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to anyone who thought president trump's second year might be a bit more relaxed than the first, two words. "fire and fury." >> "fire and fury."

>> "fire and fury." >> "fire and fury." >> the reports are that some of his top advisers don't think he's up to the job. >> declining intellectual capacity. >> declaring himself as a very stable genius. >> a very stable genius. >> saying he's a stable genius. >> quote, like really smart. >> and being, like, really smart. >> this is worse than anybody thought. this is 25th amendment type of stuff glchlt stuff. a pure work of fiction. >> you could be condescending. >> i'm not being condescending. >> that's a snide remark. >> settle down. >> holy crap. >> fitness to be president. >> completely failed. >> no one questions the stability of the president. >> look, i don't think there's

anyone who congress who does not concur at least privately with those observations and concerns. >> i don't think he's crazy. >> if he asked you to serve in his cabinet, would you say yes? >> no. >> has this book weakened our country, our standing around the world? >> no. >> all right. let's move on. >> has anyone here sitting around the table questioned the president's fitness? i got a hand from you. welcome to "kasie dc." moderator of washington week on pbs and msnbc political analyst robert costa. political reporter for axios jonathan swan and msnbc contributor kimberly atkins. thank you all so much for being here. i want to start with this overall question, jonathan swan,

let's breakdown how, from your behind the scenes reporting, how much do the events that are chronicled in this book and kind of this portrait, is this something that's going to be a turning point for this white house or is this going to turn into just another moment of noise in an already noisy first year? >> i tend to think the latter. because it's to fren nernetic. and it's brilliant writing and very sharp observations with fiction. some of the scenes just didn't happen. i know from my own reporting. his account of election night just didn't happen. melania crying. i mean, i have sources in the room. i mean, this stuff didn't happen. mitch mcconnell didn't blow off trump to get a haircut. so you have to distrust a lot of the reporting and then, of course, there's breathtaking

access that he got. so some of it is true. he was allowed into the west wing in this bizarre sort of scenario earlier on in the administration. i mean, i've been in the west wing and seen wolff hanging out on the couch like this. it's incredible. >> bob costa, what's your view of what we've learned from this book and what we should not pay attention to here and to jonathan's point, the fact that michael -- that wolff was able to get such access and what that says about the judgment of the president perhaps. >> what we're seeing you today is a republican party still on the sunday shows, whether their at camp david, they continue to stand by the president. so when did the private concerns about whether he's unpresidential or not even fit for office, when do they start to become more of a public clamor. michael wolff's book section

employeis explosive and the political cost of this book remains to be seen because the republican party, for a variety of reasons, continues to stick by this president because they believe he's useful politically and some of them even like president trump and that's why this book is an intriguing political moment. it's not cascading in a way that is unraveling the administration. >> do you have a sense that there might be a breaking point for republicans? because i have to tell you, every time you think there's going to be one, it fails to materialize and i don't really see it happening before 2018. do you? >> the breaking point would be for many republicans if the president chose to fire robert mueller. there's a sense that republicans say, please, mr. president, they tell in a private conversation, let this probe move forward. if the president, for some

reason, began to lash out at mueller and saw him fire mueller or shake up the justice department in a significant way, it would be very hard for republicans to stand there and say, we'll continue to allow this to move forward. >> interesting. the fallout between president trump and steve bannon had already started spilling over to gop primary races before bannon apologized for what's in that book. the president's evisceration of bannon on wednesday has freed gop candidates who didn't win bannon to attack those who have. dean heller is facing a primary challenge from the bannon-backed businessman danny tarkanian. heller avoided attacking bannon until the president did on wednesday. "danny tarkanian and steve bannon are frauds whose only skill is losing elections and costing republicans seats." we've seen a similar back and forth play out in virginia where

bannon has endorsed patrick morrisey in his primary campaign against evan jenkins. once excerpts were released, general kins released a scathing statement that west virginians will know what president trump said of bannon today, he's only in it for himself. and this week, including the family of hedge fund magnet robert mercer, president trump posted on twitter, "the mercer family dumped the sloppy steve bannon." smart. i spoke with republican senator corey gardener and asked him how he views bannon's impact on the midterms. what do you think steve bannon should do in the 2018 midterms? >> look, steve bannon can do what he wants but i hope it doesn't cost us any more states like alabama.

>> do you blame him for that loss? >> i supported senator strange. most people who wanted to support senator strange and what we have to do is focus on candidates who represent their state and they'll win elections. >> are republicans at risk of losing the senate in 2018? i'm excited about 2018. whether you look at public polling, whether it's missouri or florida, north dakota, republican candidates, republicans are in very good positions in a lot of states around the country. >> and do you think eventually republicans will turn on president trump because he's so unpopular? >> if you look at the states where he's running in 2018, if you look at those states, they are states that he won. ten states held by democrats today that president trump won. this is about doing what is right for the american people and continuing our successes in policies. if you're parents of a single family and a child is earniearn

$41,000 a year, that's going to make a real difference and people will notice that by november 2018. >> do you think your candidates should support mitch mcconnell? >> candidates are going to have to do what they need to do. there's no risk to senator mcconnell and i think everybody knows that. >> rick tyler, i want to go to you on this. how does steve bannon's self-mutilation affect chris mcdaniel, for example? we talked about that, contemplating and counting on money from the mercers and now that's all gone. does that make it -- how much harder does it make for somebody like mcdaniel to run a primary campaign? >> it depends. if you have a connection with the mercers like mcdaniel does, because they have put money into his super pac, 1.1 million in that pac reported and so in that case it won't. but if your connection to the

mercers and breitbart was steve bannon, you're probably in trouble. >> look, i talk to a lot of republican strategists who are very, very happy this week because they had been fretting about the prospect of steve bannon backing folks like roy moore and the vain of that, people who were not vetted very well and were called cooks and stuff like that. that would make it hard in a midterm election where the map and everything else is in republicans' favor even if there is this sort of wave of support for democrats showing in polls that made it a really perilous time and worried that steve bannon's support both political and from the president evaporated within a week, gave them a lot of relief. >> in politics, there's the bark and then the bite. with bannon, he is a disruptive force in the republican party but it's a little more complicated because he's

announced publicly and he's discussed publicly how he's cut a deal with the national republican congressional committee to stay out of house primaries so this was really a senate story. bannon has worked with steve styier who runs the nrcc to say, let's stay out of the house. >> the anger is still there. >> right. >> the anger hasn't gone away. a lot of viewers are furious at the establishment and incoup incumbents. my guess is, yes, it can. it's maybe not just as focused as it was when bannon was in charge. >> rick tyler, what's your connection between the electorate and president trump himself. it was interesting because he first listened to the advice of mitch mcconnell in washington and backed luther strange who then lost and then he sort of went all in for roy moore, kind of sort of, he went to a city right across the border. and put his foot on the scale

there. and roy moore lost. what is -- how much is this about president trump and is he sort of transferable to these candidates or not? >> look, the same could be said about barack obama. barack obama lost about a thousand seats of all the ticket over his tenure, right? he didn't have coat tails but he was enormously popular. the president is enormously popular with his base but can't seem to -- it doesn't matter who he endorses. luther strange, he lost. roy moore, he lost. and i think the 2018 election, for good or bad, will be centerally about trump and these poll numbers hover around 41%. i think that's artificially high. why? because the stock market just broke 25,000. now, a lot of people like to say people don't own stocks or a lot of people don't own stock but half of america does own stocks. they are very happy.

>> they have 401(k)s and -- >> right. we have a very low unemployment rate. you would think a president should be in the '60s and owe 7 ohs after the first year but he's not. he's in the '40s so he's not going to be an asset in a lot of these races. in some of the races, he will. in a lot of the red states he'll be an asset. and to make the difference, he won't be. and historically, history is against him. normally when the president has power it's in the white house and the other team wins seats. >> and part of this is his liability, of course, is the conversation that we've been having about this wolf book where the president has felt compelled to defend his own smarts, calling himself a genius. this is not new throughout his career and throughout his presidency he's repeatedly sought to reassure americans that he's up to the task of being president. >> and then they say, is donald

trump an intellectual? trust me, i'm like a smart person. >> i'm like a smart person. >> i'm like a smart person. >> i happen to be smart. i'm like a smart person. >> i think, you know, in class i was a smart person. >> i went to the best student and all of this stuff. i'm a smart person. >> i'm really smart. really, really, really smart. >> what compels him to feel as though he has to -- >> it's clearly an insecurity. i don't understand why he would be so insistent upon repeating something unless you have some sort of an insecurity about that issue. >> kimberly? >> it was pretty revealing that he went to that argument being questioned about mental capacity, which has nothing to do with intelligence but i think it was pretty revealing that there is something that he is insecure about and he went straight for that, i went to a good school and i'm like really smart in response to this basic question which, honestly, if i were president and people were

questioning my mental capacity, i would be much more worried about that and that wasn't in any way anything that he addressed. >> robert costa, this question of mental fitness is one that historically it's been a very difficult thing to cover, to talk about. even if you go back into history and look at john mccain facing questions about his health and they ended up putting out a lot of medical records of his to try to push back against that. at what point do you think this turns into something that people talk about in a more open and aggressive way? we have sort of started to with the news about this yale psychologist visiting members on capitol hill, et cetera. >> i would say it's pretty open right now, the public discussion about president trump and his fitness for office and one thing to pay attention to in the coming days is his scheduled physical. >> right. >> and how the white house chooses to handle that will perhaps be reviewed on some

fronts because of the michael wolff book, what do they say about the physical as the document is released and does the doctor speak publicly or not. these are unusual questions, usually asked when a president gets his physical because of the circumstances this year they will get more attention. >> and it's dangerous politically. i think democrats moving down this road, in the end game, even if there are questions about his mental instability, the only way to do something about it is if it's instigated by the vice president and cabinet and ends up with two-thirds votes in both the congress and the house. if democrats start meeting with psychologists who have never examined him, they run the risk of this becoming a political football that is only going to be used against them at some point in the future and make them look like they are politicizing what would otherwise be a serious issue. >> last word. >> the public record needs to be corrected. michael wolff said the question

of the 25th amendment is a live topic in the white house every day. it's just not true. it's just not true. i cover the white house every day. it's not something that's discussed. >> 25th amendment has the same hurdles as impeachment. >> harder. >> so the idea that it's some magic bullet to get rid of the president is not true. >> the only person i've heard say the 25th amendment is steve bannon who is quoted in the book as saying it. >> and who's stock has fallen significantly. kimberly atkins, thank you. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. still to come, what is mitt romney up to? will he plan to run for orrin hatch's seat in the senate? first, daca hits a wall. >> we want to get rid of chain migration. very important. and we want to get rid of the lottery system. after the break, we'll ask congress nan joaquin astro about the president's ultimatum and

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i don't expect to have one. i certainly don't want to have one but if the democrats want to shut down the government because they can't get amnesty for illegal immigrants, then they're going to have to defend their actions to the american people. they didn't do that last night and i suspect they didn't do it because amnesty is not popular and it would be unhelpful to their cause. >> joining me now, a member of the house intelligence committee, texas democratic congressman joaquin castro. congressman, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> i want to start with what senator cotton was talking about there and we've been hearing a lot about the negotiations over that democraaca program. they have been, before the break, according to all of the people that i was talking to on a decent track, they were bipartisan negotiations ongoing

and everybody seems to think this is something that is going to get solved. now, those negotiations seem to be going by the wayside and falling apart. i'm wondering if that's your view of where things stand right now. >> well, i'm still optimistic that the congress can come to some kind of compromise on daca so that we can make sure that 800,000 young people who have only known the united states as their home are not subject to deportation. i'm still optimistic about that. i think we have to be optimistic about it. i've heard discussion about a border wall. but bear in mind, this is no longer a matter of convincing the american people to do something for the daca kids. 83% of americans support daca relief. it's a matter of convincing president trump and the republican majority in congress to listen to the american people and do the right thing. >> is there any circumstance under which democrats could accept a wall on the mexican border to pay for that wall in

exchange for helping these kids or would you -- do you think that the government should shut down over that? >> well, i don't see -- i think that's going to be a very tough deal for the president to make. we don't want to trade the lives of 800,000 people for a wall across the united states and bear in mind also, again, that the majority of american people and the majority of people in texas, for example, did not support president trump's border wall. so we believe that this is an issue that is unto itself, that daca should be handled with a clean bill act and if there are elements of border security that up ares and the president want to pursue, they can pursue that in separate legislation. >> i want to ask you sort of one more time. do you think that democrats should withhold votes from a bill to help dreamers if it includes funding for the wall? >> i will certainly vote against it and i know most democrats will vote against it. i can only speak for the house of representatives, of course, in the senate.

they have different rules and it's a different matter. but i would suspect that you will have the overwhelming majority of democrats vote against it, yes. >> can i also ask you about the politics more broadly? tom cotton alluded to this essentially saying it's not a winning issue for the democratic party across the map to take a stand on democraaca. do you think that's the case? >> yeah. i don't know where you get that sentiment because over 80% of americans believe we should do the right thing by these dreamers, people who came here to the united states through no fault of their own and find themselves in kind of a legal limbo. i'm not sure exactly what he's talking about or who he's talking to, but the numbers speak for themselves. >> let's switch gears just a little bit and talk about farther on future for democrats in 2018, 2020 and beyond. i want to start by asking you about your twin brother, who is often discussed as a potential

presidential candidate in 2020. is that something that's on the table and, if so, what do you think he would potentially bring to that race? >> well, you're going to have to invite my brother on the show to have him answer these questions. >> you guys talk all the time. >> i, of course, will support him in whatever he does. i think he did a great job as may juror of san antonio and he's out of politics but i think has a bright future. >> i want to play for you an interview that joe biden, former vice president under barack obama, did recently. he's been kind of out front in the public eyes. take a look and then we'll talk about it. >> i'm not saying i won't run but i don't have any concrete plan to run. >> is age a factor? you will be 78. >> it's a totally legitimate factor. >> howard dean said this morning, the old people in the party need to, quote, get the

hell out of the way and -- >> tell howard i can take him physically, okay? >> do you think the democrats need somebody younger than joe biden or bernie sanders in 2020? >> i think there's going to be a place for every democrat who wants to run for president in 2020 to get up on stage and explain their vision to americans and to democrats and so whether it's joe biden or many other talented people, i think the more the merrier. let them make their case to the american people and may the best people win the nomination. >> one thing i will say, congressman, the argument that you are making now ahead of this -- well ahead, i will say, and the republicans back in 2015 they had what they referred to as the deepest and most talented bench that the republicans had had in a long time and many were

unhappy that president trump ultimately won their nomination. is that a risk bearer for you? >> i don't think so. i don't think you're going to see an equivalent of donald trump in the 2020 presidential field for democrats, at least i hope not. we're going to have a very talented group of folks, different ages, different backgrounds and experiences who decide to step forward and step up and run for the presidency in 2020. >> i want to finally just talk a little bit on -- you sit on the house intelligence committee and are familiar with where that investigation stands. where are you in the course of your investigation? do you expect it to wrap up soon and, by all accounts, we've heard that democrats and republicans don't plan to put out anything a joint product in the wake of this investigation because things have gotten so partisan. is that your sense of where it stands? >> although i can't say that for sure right now and i certainly wouldn't want to speak for the whole committee or even for the democrats on the house intelligence committee at this point, but you're right, there

have been several bumps in the road and eventually we'll have to decide whether it's going to be a joint report or there's going to be a minority report. i don't think that we're anywhere near being done with this investigation. we still have many witnesses to interview and just as importantly i believe that we need to go back and follow many of the leads that the witnesses who have come in front of the committee have already given to us and that if we don't follow up on those leads, then this investigation really is not what it should have been. so there's still a lot of work to do and when i hear some folks say that it should be wrapping up in a matter of weeks or even a few months, i really strongly disagree with that sentiment. >> congressman joaquin castro, thank you for your time tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, a romney reboot? senator orrin hatch's retirement has opened the door for one of the biggest critics to run for his seat in utah. that's when we return.

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in mitt is tough, he's smart, he's sharp. he's not going to allow bad things to continue to happen to this country that we all love. >> there are some things you just can't imagine happening in your life. this is one of them. being in donald trump's magnificent hotel and having his endorsement is a delight. >> oh, the memories of the i was actually in the room for that moment, which was just over four years before the tumultuous relationship between romney and president donald trump would turn sour and begin a new trend of ups and downs. insul insul insults slinging.

as "the new york times" reported that day, the two men, quote, locked in a long and showy handshake. but four years later, romney voiced opposition to trump during the 2016 race, offering a litany of comments from the presidency? things got ugly. >> there's plenty of evidence that mr. trump is a con man, a fake. he has neither the temperament and the fake to be president and his personal qualities would mean that america would cease to be a inshouldishining city on a >> i backed him. i backed him. he was begging for my endorsement. i could have said, mitt, drop to your knees. he would have dropped to his knees. >> they remain at odds until november 29, '16 and then reince priebus and trump and raomney hd

a dinner and now orrin hatch has announced his retirement and romney is looking for a possible reboot, eyeing a run for his seat and if he wins, he'd had a powerful voice to irritate the president. a favorable approval rating for romney is at 69% and only 22% disapproving. romney is also beloved for bringing the salt lake city olympics back from a state of crisis. and winning 89.5% of gop votes. bob costa, what do you think this dynamic would be like? if romney decides to get in this race, it seems as though he has a pretty clear path to winning and that could potentially set him up on this stage here in washington opposite the president. my sources are saying that we might be surprised by how much he might not go after the president but what's your sense of how that dynamic would play out and what it would mean? >> if elected, romney would have

to make a choice, would he be a foil for president trump, would it be someone who at this stage in his career really wanted to be a voice for the republican establishment and a more moderate, global form of politics or try to be a party leader and he's younger than many people in the party are still leaders on both sides and so while people close to him say he'd be a statesman, he'd work with the president when he wanted to and disagree like he did in charlottesville, he'd weigh in. . and people really say he sees that as a possibility. if trump does not run for reelection, he sees himself ready and willing to come into that and a lot has to happen before we get to 2020 but you never really lose that taste for the presidency. >> you absolutely don't. rick tyler, what's your take on romney? >> well, look, they've had a rough relationship, but the president pumped romney.

there's no question about. that he had no intention of giving him the secretary of state. he put him through the paces to say, i'm in charge here and i'm not hiring. now, the reason trump -- and i don't want to get too deep into his psychological profile here, but the reason trump doesn't want someone like romney 5,000 miles from the white house, trump is insecure about having competent people around him. romney can read a teleprompter. he has high approval ratings. he's everything that trump would like to be but is not and trump does not like to have people around him. i don't think romney will take him on or try to avoid it because romney doesn't like being in the mud. trump does like being in the mud so there's no winning situation there. >> romney would bring a star power to the senate that we don't have in the current senate. we've had it with someone like marco rubio but he's a diminished figure. >> and john mccain before he got ill. >> yes. and in some ways he would almost

be the figure head of a parallel party, a parallel party standing for free trade and traditional reliances around the world and perhaps a more moderate view on things like climate change and some of these issues and he would become a tribune for that and a collision course with the president, just knowing rahomne it's hard to see that. >> we've seen jeff flake play that role and it's worked to varying degrees. jeff flake is leaving the senate because of that but he's in a different situation. if romney were to win in utah, he could likely have that senate seat. >> it's a smart point made by jonathan about how he'd be a spokesman for a wing of the party and probably not going to play that corker or flake role and corker and flake, those two senators are choosing to retire. they are leaving their seat and while it's a vacuum for someone to play that role, romney is the

kind of person who represent as more traditional persona inside of the republican party. ideologically, he's with the tax cut, with the president on many things. it's about the presentation, his style and it's a battle going back to goldwater versus rockefeller, going back to the 1890s and 1900s. >> i have to tell you, having covered both of these men and having covered when we discussed it at the time when romney and trump were in that room, reporting that he was going to go with newt gingrich, less like oil and water from a personality perspective. i've said this about moitch mcconnell before, i'm not sure that you could have two men more different than donald trump and mitt romney, especially he is somebody who puts a very high premium on civility. >> i think the republican party would welcome that because the choice has been bannon or mcconnell. that's not a great choice. or trump and mcconnell and now it's mcconnell, trump versus

bannon. and so a romney trump juxtapose and i think romney provides that contrast simply by showing up and being competent. he doesn't have to take on trump and a foreign policy. >> and a foreign policy. that's when i think his advisers are particularly focused on. we have to leave this here. coming up, in memorium, we dig deep into a story you may not have heard much about given all the other news coming out of washington. undercover is up next. patients that i see that complain about dry mouth they feel that they have to drink a lot of water. medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. dry mouth can cause increased cavities, bad breath, oral irritation. i like to recommend biotene. biotene has a full array of products that replenishes the moisture in your mouth. biotene definitely works. it makes patients so much happier. [heartbeat]

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first, the issue of voter fraud. >> voter fraud. >> voter fraud. >> voter fraud is very, very common. >> isn't it amazing the way they say there's no voter fraud? >> just like they said how can donald trump complain about voter fraud? there's no voter fraud that goes

on. really? really? watch. watch. be careful. watch. >> we watched and we waited. but after six months of its existence, president trump has ended his voter fraud commission. and that is our undercover story tonight. on wednesday, the white house put out a statement saying that after "many states refused to provide the commission on election the president signed an executive order to dissolve the commission." president trump blamed democratic states for refusing to hand over data but a quick fact check out of the 23 states who refused to comply with the pam's request, nearly half of those states voted for trump in the 2016 election. take, for example, mississippi. a republican who told the commission to, quote, go jump in the gulf of mexico after the commission asked states for information on voters, including partial social security numbers, names, birthdays and voting

history. since its inception, the commission has been tied up in legal battles and negative hidelines including the arrest of a commissioner for child porn charges. one of several democrats on that commission is joining me now. mr. kening, thank you for your time tonight. i appreciate it. >> my pleasure, kasie. >> let's start with why it was there was so much resistance for turning over this data. behind the scenes, what was it that had these states completely uninterested in participating in this commission? >> you know, kasie, this predated my appointment to the commission but as best i understand it, it was based on privacy concerns and states have different laws and rules on releasing information like this. it's my understanding in alabama there's a price tag that goes with this. it's a $30,000 price tag, is what i've been told.

and so unless the federal government wanted to pony up the money and pay the money to alabama, then our balm baalabam secretary of state said we're not going to release the information. that's the issues that been reported in alabama. >> what can you tell us about how far the commission got into its work? were you at the point when there were any conclusions that had been drawn? did you have enough evidence to get a sense as to whether there actually was any voter fraud during the 2016 election? >> kasie, from the get-go, this was a bad idea, quite frankly. listen, i've handled 43 major elections in jefferson county, been involved in 50 elections total during the time i've been probate judge. former president of the alabama probate judge association. i know elections. i know local elections. i know state election. i'm a member of a national

group. i know election officials all over the nation. listen, this was not a good idea. all this talk about widespread voter fraud, it's not there. there are other issues facing this nation a lot more important in dealing with elections than voter fraud. i've used the word urban legend. this was an urban legend, quite frankly, from the get-go. >> mr. king, robert costa has a question. >> good evening, sir. >> sure. >> when you look at what has been engaged in this process, is it different when it comes to privacy laws and has that snagged up that commission? >> well, i really don't know the answer to that question. that would be based on each state. i know how alabama works. i know what's been reported in the -- well, in your newspaper and others, but i don't -- i'm -- i don't know the real answer throughout the nation on

why secretaries of state chose not to release information to this commission. >> mr. king, one final question for you. one concern that so far the president has dismissed, i would say, but is very real for many other elected officials across the states and in congress that i've talked to is the question of potential foreign interference in the 2018 elections. from what you saw do you know whether or not states are prepared to deal with potential attempts to interfere from foreign powers in 2018? >> at the first meeting of this commission in july in d.c., when it came time to introduce ourselves, that was one of the main things that i brought up. first of all, i said, a, there's not any widespread voter fraud, in my opinion, but i would treat this like a judicial case and see what testimony was

illicited, what evidence was found and i brought up the point that this nation is not ready from a technology standpoint. we see advances in technology all over the place, from smartphones to pcs to laptops, in the legal profession with evidence being int roduced so wy should elections be any different? just in the 17 years that i've been the probate judge in alabama county, we've had several improvements in election machines. most states now have what is referred to as e-poll books. technology is on the move. it's there. we can't run away from it and states and counties, quite fram frankly, we need to confront this. whatever you want to call it from d.c. to filter down to the states. >> mr. king, thank you so much for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. and to all of you at home, tweet us the stories that you think

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now i have nicoderm cq. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. it's the best thing that ever happened to me. every great why needs a great how. many stars wearing all black to the ceremony in support of victims of sexual harassment. a mix of activists joined meryl streep and others on the red carpet. their goal to shift the focus back to survivors and solutions. among them, the woman who started the me too movement. it was center stage throughout the ceremony, starting with the opening monologue from seth meyers.

>> they tried to get a woman to host this show. they really did. they said, hey, how would you like to come and be judged by some of the most powerful people in hollywood and women were like, well, where is it? it's at a hotel -- long story short, i'm your host tonight. i was happy to hear they're going to do another season of "house of cards." is christopher plumber available for that, too? i hope he can do a southern accent. kevin spacey sure couldn't. is that too mean? to kevin spacey. i do the setup and you do the punch line. >> is that how it works? you are explaining something i already know. is this the man explaining part of the evening? >> i don't think it will work without a setup. >> i'm glad to know what you think. thank you for telling me what you think. secondly, i'm a woman in hollywood, seth. we've all been through a lot. i don't need a setup to make a

pun punch line work. you are sadly mistaken. >> this character i played represents something that is the center of our conversation right now, abuse. i do believe and i hope we can elicit change. >> this protest, obviously, and this story that we have been talking about that's consumed politics in washington in addition to across the country, it did start with harvey weinsteine ed and the takedown there. we have seen the entertainment industry making political stands about various issues. this particular movement, there were questions about just how effective it would be to -- questions about whether this will make a difference. what's your take? does elite opinion in hollywood necessarily translate? >> look, i tend to think these campaigns -- the more, the

better. if you get awareness of these issues out there. if there's only a couple of women out there who see this and feel a sense of solidarity, you know, that's a great thing. i also tend to think a guy wearing a black suit isn't a huge kind of deal given that they are probably going to wear it anyway. i think the reason that hollywood angle has resonated is because hollywood has been in a way a tribune of liberal morality for the rest of the country. i think that a lot of people seized on that hypocrisy. that's why it really resonated throughout the country, throughout the middle of the country as well. >> one thing we should note is that it includes a fund for women who are working in perhaps less visible areas of hollywood, not necessarily in front of the camera but behind it, since they face a unique struggle on this. i will say i am happy to be somebody who is wearing black on the air tonight. coming up what to watch for in the week ahead. the stories that are likely to

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before we go, i want to talk all of my panelists, reporters and strategists about what you are walking in the week ahead. >> what does it mean to have a border wall? that's going to be part of the discussions over the dreamers program. what will democrats be willing to accept in the coming days as they talk with republicans who control the house and the senate? if anything. will they have a major standoff on that issue? >> rick, what are you looking for? >> i think stephen miller's appearance where he had to be -- it has been reported he had to be escorted off the set is a good reminder with the fake news media wars coming on wednesday. i think we need to reflect on 60

reporters gave their lives -- at least -- last year covering the world. our reporters aren't always in danger here in the united states, but they are abroad. we need to focus on protecting journalists. this president and stephen miller are undermining -- it's his job to answer those questions, not to avoid them. >> we should also point out that nbc news has not confirmed that steve bannon was escorted off the set of cnn after that interview -- excuse me, stephen miller. >> it's not getting a lot of attention, but there are trade discussions happening behind the scenes in the white house, in the situation room and also weekly in the roosevelt room. trump wants tariffs. he told them many times. he also wants to use this very controversial trade law. it's called section 232 of the '74 trade act. it says the overproduction of steel is a national security threat, which allows to you do

extraordinary things, hugely controversial. >> i'm with you. i'm interested to see how the negotiations play out. that does it for us tonight. we will be back. for now, good night from washington. it was the evening of october 1, 1969, when i first smuggled seval