why? because information is powerful. that's our closing thought for you. and that does it for "the beat." i also want to say a big thank you to ayman mohyeldin and chris jansing for anchoring all last week. i will be back here at 6:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. big bad wolf. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. well, the president spent the weekend defending his mental stability. and look, i've been away for two weeks and ucome back to that kind of news. and perhaps more telling, his defense of his military -- or mental stability only raised more questions about, you guessed it, his mental stability. and then there is the new hope of the resistance. like other heroic figures, she goes by one name and one name

only, oprah. >> what i know for sure is speaking your truth is the most powerful tool we all have. i want all the girls watching here now to know that a new day is on the horizon! >> well, the tv legend received the cecil b. demille award last night at the golden globes. and last night oprah 2020 began trending. she seems to be everything the current occupant of 1600 pennsylvania avenue is not inclusive. she includes everyone. calm, always grown up and nice. she seems to care. and that brings us to donald trump and his formidable new adversary michael wolff, the big bad wolf of journalism, whose best-selling book gives us the whispers that he, donald trump doesn't have the mental stability for the job as

president. on saturday, president trump tweeted, actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being really smart. i went from a very successful businessman to top tv star to president of the united states on my first try. i think that would qualify as not smart but genius. and a very stable genius at that. that was the president over the weekend. well, the president told reporters he tweeted about his stability because of the charges in michael wolff's new book. >> i consider it a work of fiction. and i think it's a disgrace that somebody is able to have something, do something like that. the libel laws are very weak in this country. if they were strong, it would be very helpful. you wouldn't have things like that happen where you can say whatever comes to your head. but just so you know, i never interviewed with him in the white house at all. he was never in the oval office. i guess sloppy steve brought him into the white house quite a bit.

and it was one of those things. that's why sloppy steve now looking for a job. that would be steve bannon, of course. another guy he doesn't like. according to michael wolff, the author of the new book, the people around the president think something is wrong with their boss. let's watch. >> everybody in this white house, and i keep saying this 100%, because it is 100% of the people closest to the president, to donald trump, believe that there is something wrong here, something -- something fundamentally wrong. something that scares them. as a matter of fact, they went from if there is any reason they stay in the white house now, it's because they are scared. they believe they have a responsibility to the american people. >> well, that scarce you. meanwhile, axios report there's is actually much less to the president's schedule than meets the eye. jonathan swan sitting to my left here writes president trump is starting his official day much later than he did in the early days of his presidency, often around 11:00 a.m.

this is largely to meet trump's demands for more executive time, that's in quotes, which almost always means tv and twitter time alone in the residence. trump's days in the oval office are relatively short, from about 11:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. and during that time he usually has a meeting or two, but spends a good deal of time making phone calls and watching cable news in the dining room adjoining the oval office. for more i'm joined by jonathan swan -- i didn't mean to be sarcastic. jonathan swan of axios along with susan page and "washington post" eugene robinson. this is a great group to start me back. i have to tell you, when you're away for a couple of weeks and you've been reading all this stuff, what the hell is happening? the president of the united states is out there tweeting his mental defense, claiming he would pass the kind of competency test you would get when your relatives put you away. i mean, is he commedemented? your reporting. >> my own reporting is there are

white house staffers that question his stability -- >> is it mental stability or iq? is it brains or stability? >> i would say it's both. >> really? >> however. it is complete nonsense that it is 100% as michael wolff claims. that is just an second-degree murder. >> give me a percentage. . >> it's hard. it's hard to know. circumstances it high? >> i would say it's reasonable. it's a reasonable percentage there are senior staff who are -- who deride him privately, who i would say have contempt. >> why are they still there? i worked in politics for years. and you worked for somebody. you were loyal to that person. that's why you were working for them. i mean you always need a job, but that's why you were working for them. how do you defend why these people are still if they're dumping on their boss? >> it's better that you have good people there protecting the country. >> so they believe he is a little nuts and they got to protect the country from him? >> 100% there are people who believe that, yes. >> susan, you are reporting there are people in the white

house who believe this president is unstable and part of their patriotic duty is to be there to keep him from going off the rails? >> yes. i think that's some of the reason people are at the white house and in senior administration feel. >> you know what you're saying here. this is historic. i think we've had people like president wilson who got sick at the end, his wife had to be his caretaker. we had people who had deep depression like abraham lincoln, gene. >> yeah. >> but we didn't have anybody like this, this people thought he was starkers. >> not that i can remember. >> and nixon at the very end when he was drinking too much. >> right. nixon at the very end. and toward the end of ronald reagan's term, there were questions about, you know, whether he lost a step, right. >> but not unstable. not unstable. >> not like this. nobody to my recollection has questioned, number one, a president's basic fitness for the job in terms of his ability. >> is this 25th amendment stuff? is this the sense that maybe says somebody we'll have to come in and take him out some day

under the constitutional amendment, where you basically have the cabinet vote him out? . that is the dilemma with those who think the 25th amendment is how this ends. you need the vice president and the cabinet that the power should be transferred to the vice president. i think that is a very hard thing to envision. >> it's a left wing fantasy. this 25th amendment is a left wing fantasy. >> because? >> because susan just laid it out. there. >> is a reasonable number of people in the white house who think he sun stable. >> not 25th amendment. >> unstable? >> well, irrational, volatile. michael wolff says the 25th amendment is discussed every day in the white house. absolute nonsense. absolute nonsense. >> i agree that 25th amendment is not going to happen. it's just ridiculous to assumele that, unless he is just barking at the moon. literally, unless he is clearly off his rocker.

>> okay. >> it's not going to come up and it's not going to happen. >> impeachment is more likely than the 25th amendment. if the democrats win control of the house and the special counsel comes back with a damning report, it is conceivable, politically conceivable to have impeachment. >> more likely than any of that is -- >> look out. i think next time if the democrats win their house this fall, the subpoena power will be used next spring. >> exactly. >> and they will act. >> subpoena power. >> they have a huge number of democrats who want to impeach him now. by the time this thing goes its course, trump must know. >> congress has a power to restrain and constrain an out of control executive. and i think if the democrats were to win control, that would be the most likely thing. >> let's take a look at this. white house advise wed all watched this today. it was on yesterday. but it's been around all day. stephen miller defending his boss on cnn in an interview with jake tapper. they quickly grew heated, i'd

say. let's watch. >> the only other tragedies of this grotesque work of fiction sets portrayal of the president. the reality is the president is a political genius, a self-made billionaire who revolutionized reality tv. >> i'm sure he is watching and he is happy you said that. >> that's a snide remark. let me tell you something. look, you can be as condescending as you want. it's part of your mo. >> i'm trying to get to the president's fitness. >> i'm getting to the issue -- >> stephen, you're being -- >> you're not going to give three minutes for the american people. >> i get it. there is one viewer that you care about right now, and you're been obsequious, you're being a factotum in order to please him. no. >> i wasted enough of my viewers' time. thank you, stephen. >> you know who i care about? >> the president tweeted shortly after that program, jake tapper of fake news cnn just got destroyed in his interview with stephen miller of the trump

administration. watch the hatred and unfairness of this cnn flunkie. is trump actually watching this in realtime, or does stephen say guess what? you got to see how i did on cnn. he is the president of the united states and he is watching this stuff over the weekend. isn't he playing golf or doing something like that? >> chris, if you don't think this whole thing was orchestrated for exactly what we saw, they haven't jake tapper -- they have not given jake tapper on cnn, they have not given him a single senior administration official for weeks. to send stephen miller, the most provocative one out, there it was blood sport. >> they went no to provoke this. >> of course, of course. >> jonathan is absolutely right. they obviously wanted this fight. they're not in the habit of providing senior administration officials to gone jake tapper's show. they just don't do that. >> this is the 39% still with donald trump. >> just for donald j. trump. >> it's for him.

>> one of the reasons he was on was to publicly behead steve bannon. that was one of the purposes of him going on that show. >> you mean -- turkey, go on there -- for stephen miller go out there and gut him. >> the sloppy steve he calls him now. anyway, he was his hero. in a statement, steve bannon backtracked a bit from his criticism in the wolff book of the 2016 trump tower meeting with the russians. remember that? in june of '16. he called it treasonous and unpatriotic. yesterday bannon wrote donald trump is both a patriot and a good man. my comments were aimed at paul manafort, a seasoned campaign professional with experience and knowledge of how the russians operate. he should have known they were cunning and not our friends. according to michael wolff, however, that isn't true. let's watch. >> i like steve. i'm grateful for the time he gave me, the insights he gave me, and i don't want to put him

in more hot water than he is already in. >> that statement was false? >> it was not directed at manafort. it was directed directly at don jr. >> meanwhile, the steve bannon statement doesn't seem to have helped. according to bloomberg, trump's aides are tracking who came out with full throated criticism of bannon over the weekend. and they put out the word that the president is keeping score. bannon hoped his statement would begin to put the episode behind him. a half dozen source describe almost the exact opposite. trump remains angry at the disloyalty of his former strategist. susan, put this all back together. what is going on? is there anybody still -- i keep thinking. i was away. and i kept watching all that is going on in this country, i kept thinking this reminds me of the shakespeare play "julius cease

so caesar." eventually he had no real friends. he had sycophants, but he had brutuss around him. who is besides the sycophants who get paid and do what they're told, is there any grown-up person around twloump is still a trumpite and is still loyal to him? who gets on the phone i like the guy, he is smart, he is running the country well. are there people like that? tom barrack? people like that? >> who are not from the trump world, who have independent standing and who are still close to him. i think the chief of staff kelly is one who comes closest. someone who can tell the truth to trump and have standing with trump. >> does he believe in him, though, or does he believe he has to contain him? >> i think that's a fair question. i think he has recognized the limits of his ability to contain trump. so i think he tries to do what he can do. and he actually seemed to be more a defender of trump than you might have expected when he took the job. >> let's go back to how we started the segment. you secretary of defense reasonable number of people in the white house don't think the president's got it together. >> to be clear, they don't think

he is mentally deranged. they think that he is not up to the job, that he is unqualified for job, i. >> unfit for the job. >> doesn't have the requisite knowledge. you could use the word unfit, but again, they're not making psychiatric diagnosis. more he is ignorant and things like that. almost everyone who cover the white house hear that privately with all that conversation. >> the outside view, at least i do, i'm watching this. i watched presidents since i was born practically, since ike. and i never heard a president who seems to be so reactive. he cares what anybody says. he is the opposite of say ike who said the hell with that guy. >> exactly. he is super sensitive to any sort of criticism. and that's the way he is. i got to say, though, that i have spoken with people who've known him for many, many years who think he's different now whom. think he has -- that something isn't quite the same. that he he's more sensitive, th

he's got more of a hair trigger, that he is less able to digest and sort of process complicated information than he was before. now i have spoken with people who have said that. and i haven't known him for 40 years. so i can't evaluate that that's out there too. >> the pressure of having so many people dislike what he is doing. he has done things that make himself very unpopular. anyeyes, could say it's not the first time a president's mental fitness has been questioned. in fact, back in 2014, not a million years ago, donald trump tweeted i'm starting to think i there is something seriously wrong with president obama's mental health. why won't he stop the flights? psycho! that's trump talking. he was talking to the u.s. response to the ebola outbreak. he wanted the president to stop travel from west africa. he was using the words about mental health and psycho. i mean, he really doesn't have much to defend here about what people are saying about him right now. >> there is an old saying, there is a tweet for everything. literally everything trump says, you can go back and find where

he said the opposite. >> and that would be the truth. thank you, susan page. i saved that. you european robinson, it is great to be back. jonathan swan, you're back from aussie land. program note. michael wolff, author of "fire and fury" which they even want in nigeria, everybody wants a copy, inside the trump white house will be our guest here tomorrow night on "hardball." i can bet we'll open the show with him. coming up, the russia investigation goes on. trump keeps saying there is nothing to see there. but talks are under way about a potential interview with the president and special counsel rober robert mueller getting together, i think under oath. plus, after that impassioned speech last night at the golden globes, there are a lot of people seriously talking about oprah winfrey to run for president. and it does make sense. she has the charisma to take on a trump. something the rest of the democratic contenders may be lacking. by the way, they haven't proven any charisma yet. i'll say that. and the "hardball" round table with three big scoops that you'll be talking about tomorrow.

finally, let me finish with trump watch. i'm back. this is "hardball," where the action. with zero dollar copays on select plans and reward points on prescriptions. so no matter where you're going or who you are, it's worth the trip. we'll help you find low cost prescriptions including zero dollar copays on select medicare part d plans. walgreens. trusted since 1901.

in addition to defending his mental state, the president this weekend also announced he was postponing his fake news awards, so-called, originally planned for this evening. tonight the president tweeted the fake news awards, those going to the most corrupt and biased of the mainstream media will be presented to the losers on wednesday, january 17th rather than this coming monday. he said that. and the interest in and importance of these awards is far greater than anyone could have anticipated. unbelievable. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "hardball." with all the concern over president trump's fitness for office, the bigger existential problem for president may be what is he hiding when it comes to exposure in the russian probe and what did he know and when did he know and better yet what did he do and when did he do it? speaking out this weekend, the

president denied he is even under investigation and said the probe reflects badly on this country. >> if robert mueller asks you to come and speak with his committee personally, are you committed still to doing that? >> just so you understand, just so you understand, there has been no collusion. there has been no crime. and in theory, everybody tells me i'm not under investigation. we could have done it two ways. well could have been very closed and it would have taken years. but sort of like when you've done nothing wrong, let's be open and get it over with. because honestly it's very, very bad for our country. it's making our country look fullish. >> well, now nbc news is reporting, however, that initial talks are under way for a potential interview between the president and robert mueller's investigators. three people familiar with the matter say the president's legal team is discussing a range of potential option for format, including written responses to questions in lieu of a formal sit-down. but they're also seeking potential compromises that could

avoid an interview altogether according to two of the sources. simply "the washington post" is reporting an interview could come in the next several weeks. the white house declined to comment, only saying it's continuing its full cooperation with the office of special counsel in order to facilitate the earliest possible resolution. i'm joined now by joy ainsley and former independent candidate for president in 2016. and jill wine-banks was an assistant prosecutor during watergate. jill, let me ask you about this. why is the president of the united states unlike bill clinton and people before him, jerry ford had to go before the congress and be interviewed. why d why does he get to set obstacles and conditions? well, i might want it in a written form. i don't want to hear crap about written. you come in and answer my questions. what is the president allowed to do there? can he just say no? >> no man is above the law. so he should be subject to

coming in for an interview. and the written sport ridiculous option. usually when you have written interrogatories, they're answered by lawyers. they deal with specific kinds of facts. the kind of thing like please identify all documents that you have. or give me some data. it wouldn't be asking for what did you do and when did you do it, what did you know and when did you know it. those are things you have to do under oath and in person, not through any other form. and he should not be any different than bill clinton or anybody else who has had to answer questions from a prosecutor. so he should be subject to that. i would look forward to that and think it's an essential step in resolving the full terms of this investigation. >> joy, one of the sense i had coming home from being abroad is this -- it's not hysterical, but this craziness in the white house. something is going on. everybody is pointing fingers at each other. everybody is trying to get out

of the trap of being blamed for something. that because they sense this is getting to somewhere, the fact that mueller now wants to talk to the president? he has heard enough to challenge him with tough questions. like did you get economic help from the russians when you built those hotels? were you getting secret money from them to lander? very direct questions that could be perjurious. >> we know that mueller's team met with president trump's team in late december. and now we hear how they are talking about how they might want to negotiate. they're in preliminary and ongoing discussions about whether and how the president would sit down with mueller's team. and they're trying to avoid that to some extent. >> he is lying. he has something dirty he doesn't want discussed. whoa what are the options he doesn't want to talk? >> think of the client. this is a president who mouths off a lot. he could very easily incriminate himself even if he doesn't have anything to hide. even if there is nothing to

hide, he is someone who could say something that could backfire against a legal strategy. and really, any defense counsel would not want their client to speak to the prosecution. but in this case it's the president of the united states. politically he can't plead the fifth or it looks like he has something huge to hide. >> the reason we all went to school, you don't want a pop quiz when the teacher asks you to your face. i'll do a take-home and look at a book. the fact that he wants it in writing would seem to me he is afraid of a surprise question. >> absolutely. >> he has no idea what they're going to ask him. >> and i think his attorneys are rightly concerned about that. but look, president trump will have to sit down with mueller or with his team. it's a political imperative, especially as we head into 2018. you're right. it's a quiz. it's not a pop quiz, but it's a quiz. if this quiz is failed by the president, then it has serious implications in 2018. the thing, i think he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. thing goes very poorly for him. but if he avoids it, that's also a disaster.

>> let me go back to jill on this. it seems to me, how wide a question can you ask? can you say to a guy in the witness chair who is basically the target of the investigation, how many conversation and when were they, and i want them listed when you talked to anybody about the russians? i want to know in the last year who did you talk to about russians? just russians. just get it all on the paper. all the meetings, all the conversations with the people working for him, whether it's jared, his son-in-law, whoever it is. everything you talk to anybody bad about russia, i want the answer. they do that in court? can they do it in a deposition like this? >> in a deposition you could. in court you would have to be probably a little bit more specific or you'd have relevance options. but right now i would say that any conversation he had with any member of his staff or with any russian directly would be relevant. the one thing i want to go back to something julius said, which is if you have written questions, they can be answered by the lawyer and frequently are

written down by the lawyer. in the case of this one, i'm not sure that's a big advantage to him because right now john dowd, his lawyer, is taking credit for the very incriminating tweet that said that he had fired flynn -- i'm sorry, that he had fired comey because -- i'm sorry. i'm back to flynn that he fired flynn because he had lied to both the vice president and the fbi. which is very incriminating. so i'm not sure he is better off having his lawyers draft the answers. but she is absolutely right that it is very dangerous for him to answer questions because he says whatever comes to his mind. and it could be very incriminating. >> well, trump's lawyers appear to want to minimize the risk involved here, as i said in an interview with their client and the special counsel mueller. however, the president said publicly in june that he would be willing to speak to robert mueller, at least to dispute james comey's testimony. here he goes. >> would you be willing to speak under oath to give your investigation -- >> 100%. >> so if robert mueller wanted

to speak with you than? >> i would be glad to tell him exactly what i just told you. >> in spite he is told he is not under investigation, trump stated on twitter last june, i am being investigated for firing the fbi director. he said that is so ridiculous. he is under investigation. his lawyers are arguing what kind of testimony he is going to give, how he is going give, whether it's in writing or in person. and then he still holds off the fact he is not being investigated. what is going on? >> we can go back and look at the clips. he says he is not being investigated, he is. i don't think there a lot of rhetorical strategy going into these tweets or legal strategy into what's happening here. he wants to say that he is not under investigation, and he may be told that by his legal team because they want him to keep calm and not write more tweets like this. but we know at the heart of any investigation into whether or not trump in the campaign colluded with prussia, i don't have you to talk to the candidate.

>> tell session he can't recuse himself. he wanted to van attorney general who would defend him. he didn't want an attorney general investigating him or helping an investigation. is that obstruction? it seems to be certainly politically it looks like it. >> it just seems like everywhere you look, trump is trying in a different way to block this investigation. he said if sessions was going to recuse himself, i would have -- if i had known that, i would have selected a different attorney general. so that's pretty damning in and of itself. i will say in trump's continued representation of this phrase, "i am not under investigation," he hedged on that on friday. he said in theory i'm not under investigation. i think he is becoming so patently obvious for the reasons julia mentioned that he is part of this investigation, that even he can't get away with saying it anymore. >> evan, didn't you wish you knew this when you were rung against him? >> sure. >> and jill wine-banks. i love reporters these days. reporters are the best. up next, oprah's speech has

calls for her to run for president in 2020. and one guy who talked about her holding national office is donald trump. we'll get to my whose quote from my program. it is acknowledgment that democrats like a proven star, someone with charisma to take on trump? i think that may i be the back story here which they need somebody like her. they haven't found somebody like her, if not her. this is "hardball," where the action. what comes next. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira, we make sure you're in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. ♪ oh and at fidelity, you'll see how all your investments are working together. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. ♪ just remember what i said about a little bit o' soul ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." seemingly under siege after the release of the scathing new tell-all "fire and fury" by michael wolff, president trump is striking out. this time against a new round of questions surrounding his mental health and fitness. here he is on saturday. >> this morning you were tweeting about your mental state. why did you feel the need to tweet about that this morning? >> only because i went to the best colleges or college. i went to a -- i had a situation where i was a very excellent student, came out, made billions and billions of dollars, became one of the top business people, went to television. and for ten years was a tremendous success, as you probably have heard. ran for president one time and won. >> isn't that the way your mother and father told you not to talk? anyway, it's not the first time the president has felt the need to out the his accomplishments. >> so here i uam, great schools,

great brain, great success. >> i went to an ivy league school. i'm very highly educated. i know words. have i the best words. >> i was a good student. i always hear about the elite, you know, the elite. they're elite. i went to better schools than they did. i was a better student than they were. >> and then they say is donald trump an intellectual? trust me, i'm like a smart person. >> i know words. anyway, with trump's popularity stuck in its usual place, the upper 30s, democrats are looking for a break-out star to take on the president come 2020. last night at the golden globes, oprah winfrey broke through. the media mogul who was being honored for her role promoting strong female characters on and off the screen delivered this powerful speech. >> i want all the girls watch hearing and now to know that a new day is on the horizon! [ applause ]

and when that new day finally dawns, it will be because of a lot of magnificent women, many of whom are right here in this room tonight, and some pretty phenomenal men fighting hard to make sure that they become the leaders who take us to the time when nobody ever has to say me too again. >> almost immediately, twitter lit up with calls for her to run for president. a source close to winfrey, who retired from her daily television show way back in 2011 has told nbc news that she's got no intention of rung. but today her long time partner stedman graham told "the l.a. times," it's up to the people. she would absolutely do it. back in 1999 during a "hardball" college tour, oprah got an early endorsement, albeit from a different job. it came from a potential rival, donald trump.

>> would you consider a woman for your running mate? and if so, who? >> well, i would consider. and as chris can tell you, i threw out the name of a friend of mine who i think the world of. she is great. and some people thought it was an incredible idea. some people didn't. but oprah. i said oprah winfrey, who is really great. and i think we would be a very formidable team. >> well, does oprah have a shot? stay tuned for the hardball round table. we'll talk about her chances of actually running and wing. we'll be right back. thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes!

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we danced in a german dance group. i wore lederhosen.man. when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree. i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. the big surprise was we're not german at all. 52% of my dna comes from scotland and ireland. so, i traded in my lederhosen for a kilt. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com. i don't want to lie down. i refuse to lie down. why suffer? stand up to chronic migraine with botox®. botox® is the only treatment for chronic migraine shown to actually prevent headaches and migraines before they even start. botox® is for adults with chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month each lasting 4 hours or more. it's injected by a doctor once every 12 weeks. and is covered by most insurance. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness

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here she, i know people have talked to you about whether or not you want to run. would you ever? >> probably not. but i do get tired of seeing the country ripped off. >> why would you not? >> i just don't think i really i have the inclination to do it. i love what i'm doing. i really like it. >> also doesn't pay as well. >> no, it doesn't. >> so is this a matchup we're going to see in 2020? let's bring in the "hardball" round talk tonight. this is not heavy lifting. clarence page and jenna johnson, white house reporter for "the washington post." and david catney. i don't know when stedman graham, her long-time partner said you know, it's up to the people, it sounded to me like he is throwing her hat in the ring. for real. >> i don't know who "the l.a. times" sources were, but they claimed two sources. and i would guess the other one is probably gayle. >> gayle king. >> gayle king, exactly. word has been around for a while that oprah has been interested in this. and she has had political inclinations in the past.

remember, she testified on capitol hill in favor of the child protection act. and she has been quite active on some issues involving south africa where she has a school down there. >> that's right. >> she's had some activism over the years. so she is not totally green to this. >> jenna, go on here. this is something that tells me a lot about our country. it shows we don't have any tall trees running for presidency yet. i think bernie would do well. elizabeth warren would do well. but nobody looks like the person who has closed the field and said there is no opening here. >> people are just rallying behind her today. every time i looked up at the tv, there she was. i mean, in the past 24 hours, we've seen how so many democrats are just eager to find a big personality to get behind. and she is not any big personality. she is someone who can kind of challenge trump on his own turf. >> how so? how would that look if the two of them went on stage together? would she let him stand behind her? i mean -- >> would he try? >> what the hell are you doing,

buddy. >> he can only do that once, i think. >> when he talks about the billions and billions of dollars that he has made, look at the empire that she's built, all on her own. and she was born into poverty. she didn't have parents giving her a million dollar loan or chipping in here and there and things like that. he talks about the success of "the apprentice" that was on air for nearly 12 years. look at her show, on the air for 25 years. and popular in a way that "the apprentice" never, ever was. but the big thing that we saw last night was she got in front of an audience to accept an award. trump would have talked a lot about himself. oprah got up there and she talked about the people who inspired her when she was a kid. she talked about civil rights icons. and she talked about people who she felt like had been kind of left out of the me too. >> i want to be the values here. first of all she is a nice person. i hope that doesn't put somebody down to say they're nice these

days. she is inclusive. it's all about everybody. she is rooting for everybody in trouble. she is always rooting for men and women. mostly women. but i've watched her. the reason we love her is she seems to care about the person watching her on television. she seems to have empathy, which trump doesn't. >> it's the liberal vacuum for anybody that can stand against trump. this is the democratic party that doesn't have an obvious leader. and here is someone who does a killer speech, who has 100% name id, who most people like. i think most people like oprah. what was the most fascinating thing to me today and watching how this unfolded was that people -- serious democrats embraced it. >> i know. >> you had people from the clinton campaign coming out there saying i think she should run. she would be great you. had barack obama's iowa director from 2012 said oprah, call me. i can introduce you to some county chairs in iowa. now it's a little bit of a media creation that gets behind these things. but many people that were out there saying do it. a lot of people said no. the answer is not a celebrity.

serious democrats said look, this is too far. she gave one speech. we need someone that knows issues that has experience. we can't match a celebrity that doesn't know what he is doing with another celebrity that has no experience. >> i wouldn't say she doesn't know what she is doing. >> well, she doesn't have government experience. >> it's the oprah winfrey candidacy got a boost today from one democratic senator, hawaii's macy her rona. >> i love the fact that oprah winfrey, who i really like and really loved her speech last night because it's time to put an end to harassment at all levels. if she wants to join the group of wonderful people oning for democratic presidency, i say great. >> well, that was soft. if she wants to join the other people. that wasn't quite an endorsement. but jonathan allen wrote delivered the kind of inspirational and aspirational message at the golden globes that hillary clinton had trouble hammering home in the 2016

presidential election. you know what i think? the question for me is what is trump going to do right now? is he dopey? i'm not going to ask that. that's the wrong way to put it. is he stupid enough to attack her? or is he smart enough to lay back? >> he won't attack her until he feel likes she say tacking him. you now how he is. >> he gets quiet. >> that's right. what i was reminded of watching oprah's speech is barack obama back at that 2004 convention in boston. you remember that? he lit that place up. democrats at the time were demoralized. they were feeling down in the dumps. they were worried about al sharpton. >> and who came on right after he spoke said you have just seen the first african american president. >> was it me by any chance? >> no more bragging. the crowded trump field in 2020 where she would have run. just as trump did in 2016. one of his vanquished rivals lindsey graham was asked today

the questions surrounding the president's mental stability. let's listen. >> anyway, saturday trump called himself, quote, like, really smart. and a stable genius. so do you think he is, like, really smart and a stable genius? >> i think this. if he doesn't call himself a genius, nobody else will. >> that's his friend talking. what do you make of that? >> i mean, we're sitting here laughing. >> what else are you going to do? >> exactly. >> the lindsey graham who is the local, the most loyal guy right now saying if he doesn't call himself smart, nobody else will. >> i mean, the fact that this has gotten away from the white house in the way that it has, trump latched on to michael wolff's book. a lot of people would have looked away, and he went right for it. and here we are, having this conversation about his mental health. something that we avoided until he went there and started talking about it himself. >> you know why? just a few days ago he was talking about his nuclear button being bigger than the north

koreans. the guy with little hands talking about a big button. that's loony talk, to talk about the potential of nuclear war. i got a bigger button than he does. anyway, the round table is sticking with us. up next three, scoops people will be talking about tomorrow, all three of them. you're watching "hardball." and if that's not enough... we should move. our home team will help you every step of the way. still not enough? it's smaller than i'd like. we'll help you finance your dream home. it's perfect. oh, was this built on an ancient burial ground? okay... then we'll have her cleanse your house of evil spirits. we'll do anything, (spiritual chatter) seriously anything to help you get your home. ally. do it right. to help yhey, need fastme. try cool mint zantac. it releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster.

you know, during the 2016 presidential campaign, donald trump repeatedly drew a bleak picture of african american life in this country. here he goes. >> you're living in poverty. your schools are no good.

you have no jobs. 58% of your youth is unemployed. what the hell do you have to lose? >> well, now donald trump is taking credit for turning things around. this morning he tweeted "african american unemployment is at its lowest ever record in our country's history. the hispanic unemployment rate dropped a full point in the last year and it's close to the lowest in recorded history. dems did nothing for you but get your vote. #neverforget." while it is true it has dropped to a record low of 6.8%, that number also fell steadily under president obama. it peaked at nearly 17% during the -- actually after the financial crisis. but by the time obama left office, it had dropped more than half, down to 7.8. obama deserves a lot of credit. we'll be right back. due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but no matter where i ride, i go for my best. so if there's something better than warfarin,

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which means everyone has access to our real reviews that we actually verify. and we can also verify that what goes down, [ splash, toilet flush ] doesn't always come back up. find a great plumber at angie's list. join today for free. find a great plumber at angie's list. yea, s#stuffynoset this cold #nosleep i got it... #mouthbreather yep, we've got a mouth breather. well just put on a breathe right strip and... pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone so you can breathe... ...and sleep. go to breatheright.com today to request a free sample. we're back with the "hardball" round table. starting off is clarence. tell me something i don't know. >> you remember dwayne "the

rock" johnson. >> of course. he was there last night. >> well, people were talking about how what happened to his campaign. he looked around, saw that his booked up for movie production up into 2021. now he says he is looking at 2024. along with kanye west. the way is now clear for hollywood picking. >> upon this rock we will build our hopes. there you go. >> months ago, vice president pence's team started planning this big trip to the middle east. then the president made his big jerusalem decision. the trip was postponed. it was postponed again. it was delayed. it was postponed a little bit more. as of today, they finally have dates on the calendar. >> how did they get around the christian groups that didn't want him to go? >> they're not meeting with them. he is going to go to egypt first is going to be the first stop on january 20th and then to jordan, which is a new stop that wasn't on the original schedule. two days in israel, and then back to the united states. >> okay. go ahead, david. >> another house republican

retirement today. hanging a it up. >> why are they quitting? >> they see a blue wave coming. there are new 30 house republicans that are retiring or resigning, not choosing to run in their seats next year. democrats need only 24 pickups to win. you now have a real scenario. operatives on both sides think you could have a democratic house still have divided government. >> david, if they get the house, they get subpoena power, impeachment starts a year from now, right now. the clarence page, thank you, jenna johnson and david cantonese. when we return, i got one. i like it. hope you do too. you're watching "hardball."

i got some financial guidance a while ago. how'd that go? he kept spelling my name with an 'i' it's bryan with a 'y.' since birth. well, i happen to know some people. do they listen? what? they're amazing listeners. guidance from professionals who take their time to get to know you.

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trump watch. monday, january 8th, 2018. when you're away from this country as i've been the past two weeks, you get a distant but in many ways deeper look at what's been going on here in the u.s. also, the stakes. we are not like the french or the chinese as each of you know an ethnic country. what unites you and me, all of us together isn't the same religion or folk songs passed down by our ancestors or ancient tribal memories of loyalty tis and adversaries. no. what unites us as americans is our shared belief in certain principles. rule of law, for one. think of any other country with a leader who had done something like john adams had done, gone into court to defend the very british soldiers who had fired on our patriots in the boston

massacre. that's what made us different, really different. we were going to be the kind of country where even soldiers were going get the protections of law because we wanted those protections for ourselves. we wanted everyone to honor the law. think of george washington, who after serving two terms as president could easily have ruled this country like a dictator, who gave up all the trappings of office and went back to virginia. this is not some place where a guy who fightser for independence was going get the chance to become ruler for life and grab it. we're going to be a country where power, even out of our popular hero, was going to be limited. think of our free press, of people like thomas payne who wrote a pamphlet called "common sense" who demanded this country have independence. and more than that, we were going to be the kind of independent country as thomas jefferson advised where people if having to choose would demand a free press over any kind of government trying to deny one. these are the american principles which are now under stress, of course. more than, that the world is watching us. less than a year ago, we were the country the world looked up

for these principles of rule by law, no one above the law, of limited government, of a free and independent press. and now we're the country of donald trump. it's the country's democratic principles that need to get back into power, don't you think? and that's why i'm here, and that's what "hardball" is for. thank you for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> mr. president, if robert mueller asks you to come and speak with his committee personally, are you committed to still doing that? >> mueller time is coming. >> just so you understand, just so you understand, there has been no collusion. there has been no crime. >> nbc news exclusive reporting. donald trump may face questions from robert mueller in a matter of weeks. tonight, why trump's lawyers are trying to avoid a face to tase sh showdown. then as the self-described very stable genius pours gasoline on