tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. he fires into the end zone. touchdown! alabama wins! >> my goodness. good morning, everyone, that was quite a fight last night. who stayed up for it? >> oh, i did. >> did you stay up for it? >> all right the room stayed up for it. >> you are a bulldogs fan, hold on, let me talk to aymon for a bit. he's fought happy, right? >> unfortunately, yeah. >> these alabama-georgia games, the two of the best college games i've seen, you remember the sec championship back in i guess 2012. >> yeah. it's a historic rivalry. sec football arguably one of the best conferences in the country, though. my brother is at ohio state.

he would argue ten sunny skies a bit better. >> so you stayed up for the whole game? >> i did, yeah, believe it or fought. they don't make it to the finals every year. there was this big thing. i went to atlanta. benefit mayer went to the game. there was a lot of excitement being in atlanta t. home crowd. >> you guy versus a great team. i can't believes i am sure you are with me. i can't believe nick saban pulled out one of their biggest players, 25 and 2 record and at halftime, you know what, i'm going with a freshman kid from hawaii that's never taken a snap this season. >> what was beautiful about the game is the future for both these programs looks very exciting. hertz is a sophomore. you got the freshman that started in the second half, jay from from georgia. he's a true freshman. i think safe to say they will have other programs.

>> jay fromme from georgia. here's a kid one of the extraordinary comebacks in history. i can't believe georgia was walking through the fourth quarter, he missed a couple passes he would have made last week. it has to be exhausting for an 18-year-old kid to play in i got to say two of the best football teams. >> two pressure cookers. >> two of the greatest football teams i seen in my life. this past week. georgia played in both of them. >> very composed to the future to the end remember a bright future for those guys. >> i fell asleep when i thought it was over for alabama. what happened? >> the nfl falcons game. we don't do that anymore. >> i get so many calls at the beginning of the fourth quarter from atlanta falcon fans that know i suffer. can you believe it? >> i learned my lessson not to do that until the game is over. >> especially if you are from

atlanta. you'd never say that i say that as an atlanta native. >> where is the roll tide gear in. >> this is sort of roll tide. >> animal hair. >> for me, a college football fan. alabama has won a few. i'm not as excited as the first two or three. i'm serious. i was so excited. the thing steve ratner that has i'm most obsessed with about the alabama football program, because i'm not really obsessed with the xs and os anymore, irhave other things to worry about, nick saban, last night said it was the happiest dave of his life. that's the only time he's expressed happiness at the end of a game. nick saban is a great -- because it's getting to the top is one thing. staying at the top in such a competitive field is unheard of. that's why nobody has gone what nick saban has done before.

but it's his hatred of losing that drives him more. he doesn't wake up at 2:00 in the morning going oh, boy, it would be great if i won a national championship? it's ki fought fail. it's pretty incredible. again just that drive. >> the drive is extraordinary, obviously, this season, in particular, it looked for a while they were going to be out of it. now they have come back and won the big one, yeah, hats off for somebody who believes in winning. >> quite run. okay. as can you see. >> i got a question. >> alex. >> the football game? >> getting the news now. >> i don't watch the football game. i'm kur uscurious was mika was cooking the pick or cooking with the pig? >> that's just my little pig. that's a christmas gift. but you remember yesterday in the show, richard gave us his recipe book. >> so i thought i would give it

a little play. we cooked up something good. not the pig. i love her, she's adorable. >> it's interesting, so we get a lot of, a picture, mika put it up on the instagram account. oh, it's so cute. one guy goes, dude, that is the ugliest dog i have ever seen. >> oh. >> in thing is hilarious. >> not his best angle. >> she's a jerk. i love her. she has quite a personality. with us as you can see, we have former treasury official economic analyst seve ratner, commentary magazine editor noah rothman, chair of african men studies at princeton university always speechless at us, eddie greyhound, jr. and associate editor for the washington post eugene robinson. >> hi, mika. roll tide i guess, joe. >> did you stay up?

>> you know, nick saban, those alabama teams in the first half, theyed good but not great. he se a second-half keep. i always said that. >> i tell my son or did started a couple years ago, you can't pay attention to the first half, that's him setting it up. but never like what happened last night. >> wow. >> he's never gone, you know, i will bench my star and bring in this 18-year-old kid. >> incredible. >> and the kid looked like a freshman at times and other times just so poised. >> then at the end of the game, he sat there and calmly thanked everybody. >> before we leave alabama. i have a present for you. >> oh, good. >> the other event. it's a doug jones poster. >> oh. >> moore and doug jones in selma, alabama office over the

break, i saw this and thought it would be great on your wall. >> i want it. thank you very much. >> 'bamma has had a good month. >> the great state of alabama. i'm taking to alabama. i am. it's good. >> it's about time. >> it's taken a while. all right, let's get to the news, there are plenty of questions over president trump's governing ability. he is comfortable clearly on the cane trail. did you see him at the game last fight? >> i did. >> the president hit the road in nashville yesterday doing what he does best, promoting his agenda and of course, himself. he spoke at the farm bureau's 99th annual gathering. the first president in a quarter of a century to address the convention. trump remained voters about his 2016 election victory and the recently passed tax bill on capitol hill. >> every democrat in the house and every democrat in the senate voted against tax cuts for the american farmer and for the

american worker. but republicans came together and delivered his toreing relief for our farmers and our middle class f. the democrats ever had the chance the first thing they would do is get rid of it and raise up your faction tax, sometimes by 40, 50, 60% higher than you are paying right now. we're streamlining regulations that have blocked cutting-edge biotechnology, setting free our farmer's to innovate, thrive and to grow. oh, are you happy you voted for me! you are so lucky that i gave you that privilege. the other choice wasn't going to work out too well for the farmers or the miners or anybody else. i will sign two presidential orders to provide broader and

faster and better internet coverage. make sure you look upiate realdonald trump. i have a feeling you get that anyway, actually. it's our only way around the media. fake media. it didn't turn out to be. there is no way to 270 and it wasn't, we got 306 or 304. there was no way to 2 seven. we ended up at 304 after two were taken away from us. we ended up having 304 you'll explain that to me some day. >> so gene i remember about a month or so after donald trump's election, inauguration, you actually had newspapers and columnists surprised that donald trump would still be bragging a month into it about hit

electoral win and saying false things and showing people the maps. this victory. so here we are the i know. >> almost a year later and he's talking about his electoral college win. i just, for some reason this time bruce springsteen song "glory days" i'm reminded of the guy talking about his high school picture. >> exactly. >> here we, are he's in the middle of, you know, crisis after crisis and he's still talking about beating hillary clinton. >> he made that touchdown throwing in high school. he will never let anybody forget about it. yes, he won an electoral college victory. he still talks about it more than a year after the election. it's incredible, but it z does give an idea of the more we learn again about the loop that plays inside donald trump's head, the more kind of concern

we get about that. because he talks about the same stuff over and over again. that's one of the things he talks about. >> noah, he certainly differently in the confines yesterday, he certainly had a receptive audience there among farmers who voted for him last time. if he runs again, will most likely vote for him next time t. question is, how does let move beyond 37, 38%? how does he start expanding this base or at least stwhoop appears to be coming in 20 -- at least stop what appears to be coming in 2018. >> the republican party today is a rural party. they understand i think that it's the suburbs that are going to deliver what looks to be now like a big blue wave. it ain't going to happen between now and november. that is what is in the card. yesterday, we had foreign affairs committee chairman ed royce retire. 13 timer, southern california,

orange county, sort of the heartland of the republican party and that is a seat that's probably gone. republicans will have to defend a lot of suffer. they have a triage resource, that's one where they probably can't afford to waste a lot of money. there will be a lot of seats like that. the republican party will be handed a suburban defeat to the extent that they have to think of it as an existential crisis t. party can't exist as a rural party afraid of the coast and a budding and urban area. it won't be sustainable. >> the president may be basking in his electoral victory. noah mentioned, house foreign affairs chairman republican ed royce of california is not sooebl seeking the re-election. he joins a growing list of republicans who have decided to not run in this year's mid-terms. royce's seat was considerle vulnerable after hillary clinton won his district by nine points

in 2016 after news of royce's retirement t. cooked political report shifted the race from lean republican to lean democrat. royce will be the eighth house republican committee chair to leave congress during of after this term. while some like royce terms are limited from keeping their gavels, others include -- that's quite a list. >>s the a list and noah even in the best of years when president's approval ratings are around 50%, the party in power gets walloped. now donald trump with historic low number, certainly for the first year.

how bad is this going to be in we continue on this trajectory? >> my predictions are as good as the paper they're written on, which is to say they're not written on paper, will you never find it. it doesn't look like it's any good. eseen in specials in the off years, last november, every democrat that can vote is coming out. republicans afternoon. republicans are staying home. there is this talking point on the reid right on the republican stalwarts that said the committee chairman are limited. they want to get out of there, they don't want to be here. that's nonsense, the bottom line is no one wants to be in the majority. >> i think there is a total of 19 republicans who said they will not run compared to only seven democrats have said that. >> and if you look again, what noah said, eddie, if you look at where republicans are under performing, it's in a lot of these areas where people are retiring and it used to be that

republicans would when by winning the suburbs and win by winning the rural areas, but they have, especially over the past year in the age of trump. now donald trump has taken over the republican party him at least over the past, you have been obliterated in suburbs. >> i think there is a general sense the two-party system is broken. the republican party is broken. the folks want their lives fundamentally transformed by the politicians that represent them. i think every politician across the board should be concerned even the democrats as we anticipate the blue wave as it's called. i also want to know, is this a part of the frustration, you were on the hymn, of the difficulty of governing in this moment? some people just don't want to put up with the nonsense and just retire? >> if i were there, i wouldn't want to put up with people asking me, congressman, today you cured cancer, you've scaled

the most dangerous cliff inside of mount everest and you broke the record for the one mime. tell us about donald trump's sweep. wherever ed royce goes, he's not talking about pakistan, he's trying to talk about pakistan or iran, if he campaigns, it's going to be all about donald trump. which what democrats had to deal with in 1994 with bill:what republicans had to deal with in 2006 with george w. bush again, gene, i think it's going to be far more difficult with donald trump because he has historically low numbers, but if you look forward, you see again we're getting into this pattern of a split government. >> yeah. >> where i could see, so donald trump wins the electoral college in 2016 democrats win huge in

2018. they tack too far left or they immediately come in talking about impeachment and donald trump is. >> yeah. >> i'm not saying this is going to happen. >> yeah. >> if you take the pattern going back to 2004, this is what seems to happen every two years and donald trump is re-elected. we are getting into this repeating cycle. >> yeah. we are. the asterisk here is that donald trump doesn't necessarily follow, you know, established patterns. he's not your usual republican president, but your general point is right. we do have this sort of back and forth and some people say, well, you know, it's overreach. one party overreaches and then there is a correction. i actually don't see it that way. i think there is a misalignment. i think the parties are fought aligned with where the country is. and where people are.

and it's, the political system is not responsive enough. >> that's such an important point that both sides, the base of both sides. >> they are. >> especially the people that give money to candidates that run for president especially on both sides are so much more extreme than 70% of americans. so it's one bad choice followed by another bad choice to offlet the bad choice you had to make two years ago and it just keeps repeating itself. unfortunately, it seems like our system is only capable, we hear, of producing presidents from two parties that are -- >> out of touch. >> so out of touch. >> and our entire political system i think continues to think of a sort of axis of from

liberal to conservative that's been around for a while that we all have in our heads. you know, we know the republican party is corn servetive. these are conservative policies the democratic party is liberal and it leads to these specific policies, so i think it's not so much the basis going too far one direction or the other direction. it's just that the access now goes in a different direction. i think that's one thing that allowed somebody like donald trump to win. donald trump was not espousing traditional conservative policies when he ran. he was talking about protectionism and trade, about at the beginning, universal health care. he certainly was talking about keeping entitlements. that's not what republicans are generally sound like and you know in that sense, conversely,

i think there might be an opening for a democrat who doesn't sound like a traditional democrat. but until we get the axis right and figure it out, we have this sort of back and forth i think. >> just on the democratic side, i think you have a slightly different dynamic which is that obviously hillary clinton lost, so now there is an enormous amount of pressure that say she lost because she was too close to the center. i think the momentum at the moment with the democratic party is torn. >> do you think she lost because she was too -- >> i'm not saying, i don't. >> i understand that there are really rich guys that fund democratic candidates and rich women that fund democratic candidates running for president that think that hillary's problem was she was too cent ricentrist do you take them seriously?

>> i don't think they're one part, joe. >> better way for me to state the question. do you think that's what the democratic party's rob was in 2016, that they were too centrist? no, i don't. i hopefully hope we remain in a centrist position. i think those that ahad vo advor sanders, if we had done that, we would have won. it's a counter factual. >> i don't think it has to do with ideology so much. i don't think it has to do with ideology. i saw donald trump walk on the football field last night. i wasn't particular losed with it. i turned no mika, look at that when he walks out like that i remember why he won. i remember why we were saying uh-o, the last month of the campaign, because the democratic party is so condevending and 90%

of the people in the stands have grown up watching tv shows and listening to the democratic candidates being what they consider to be condescending to them. i didn't like it. mika said it put me in the bad mood seeing donald trump on the football field for the first quarter. the democrats have to figure out how to win some rural vote, again. again, you look, eddie, at the map of where democrats won, where hillary clinton won, they're along the coastlines. they're confined to urban areas. you got to figure out how to move beyond. that maybe they will in '18? they certainly have some strong candidates running for congress. >> absolutely. i know we have to go to break. i think it's important. i don't think it's about ideology, at the heart of it. every day ordinary people made the point because the democrats had not changed their fundamental sessions. it was a judgment about the quality of their lives t. quality of their lives simply

have not improved. they were still catching hell t. democrats said they were in some way representing them. republicans said that they could effect their lives. nobody, the rich people were getting richer. every day ordinary people were catching up. >> i got to say how laughable before we go to break that donald trump actually convinced a lot of people that would normally vote for democrats. i understand the rich are getting richer the poor rer getting poorer. this is a scam job. wall street insiders, et cetera, et set remarks you look at health care, tax policy, it is the opposite of what he said he was going to do last year. >> all i'm trying to do is report. we can debase. i'm saying this is what's going on in the democratic party. but to my point, if the democrats were to nominate somebody like bernie sanders next time, it going to move beyond the coast? >> no. >> oh my god, no. >> no, we're not there yet. >> steve just reports, you just decide. >> still ahead on "morning joe"

the growing calls for oprah to run for president against donald trump in 2020 and why ivanka trump may even be excited by that idea. >> i didn't get that, mika. >> we'll explain that. or not. plus the president has plenty to say about the soaring stockmarket. what's really behind the numbers? steve ratner has a fact check. let's go to bill kierans on the forecast. >> bill, it warmed up a bit. >> it took 347 hours for central park to go above freezing since christmas. we finally did it last night. our attention turns to california, our fears are coming through the heavy rest yain rain is focused over where the thomas fire was. flash flood, 600 people under mandatory evacuation of the mudslides. between santa barbara ojai, and you can see the heavy rain.

this is like a thunderstorm band about to go over the top. it looks like a moon landscape. there is no vegetation to hold the mud and debris in place. this is bad news, as joe was mentioning, we finally warmed up a little bit. it's amazing how 33 degrees can be in d.c. and new york. today we're heading up into the 40s, yes, it will feel warm and balmy compared to how it normally has been late in the last two weeks. 39 in chicago. there is a lot of fog around tennessee, watch auto for fire and storms. beautiful weather from texas to colorado. temperatures are in the 60. that's your january thaw. it looks nice, new york city 41. that's as good as the number we will do. friday and saturday, we could hit the 50. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. whoooo.

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. >> the american dream is dead. >> maintain hope for a brighter morning.

>> when mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. >> any culture, geography, race, relidgeen. >> they're bringing drug, crime, they're rapists. >> they are the women whose names we'll never know. >> we have losers. losers. >> they are domestic workers. and farm workers. >> dumping for everybody else's problems. >> they're a part of the world of tech and politics and business. >> they're laughing at us at our stupidity. >> there are athletes in the olympics and there are soldiers in the military. >> i'm really rich. >> i want all the girls watching here and now to know -- >> thank you, darling. >> that a new day is on the horizon. >> i'm proud of my network. i've done an amazing job. >> and when that new day finally dawns. >> i'm not doing that to brag, because you know what, i don't have to brag. >> take to us the time when nobody ever has to say, me too.

again. >> okay. that is what the campaign ad might look like following her rousing golden globes speech on sunday fit. there has been growing speculation that oprah rin free will run for presidency in 2020. steadman graham told the l.a. times on sunday, quote, it's up to the people and she would absolutely do it. but a person in the know tells nbc news she has no intention of running for president. some democrats are excited at the prospect of an oprah 2020 ticket. former iowa state director brad earnedson tweeted at winfrey to call him and former obama administration adviser tina chen called oprah an amazing leader. but democrats were not the only ones blown away by opractice's golden globes speech, ivanka trump commented last night on

her remarks, just saw oprah's empowering and inspiring speech at last night's golden globes, let's all come together, women and men, and say times up. >> one person that's come together is john fedoris, you are a patriot. seems to be excited about the oprah booming. >> if you take a look at today's fork post. he has a great editorial. i called it. and he did and this is serious. this isn't some sort of publicity play. she real limits to do this him i think she is probably right. democrats need to decide whether or not they want their own donald trump and it seems like they really do. i can't imagine why. she gave a very good speech,py performance artists bore me. she has demonstrated no capacity to govern. she has very little policy knowledge as far as we understand it. i think somebody should be asking those questions if they are serious about having this person soak up 30% of the

electorate and push out all these people who we thought were rising stars who apparently don't have the stature we thought they did. >> you sound like somebody that watched a celebrity come in and 16 republicans. >> yes. >> suck up the oxygen. >> donald trump managed to secure his 30% of the electorate and slugged it out to may and managed to win the nomination. it could happen again, yesterday who disappeared, evaporated kirsten jill brand, cory booker, elizabeth warren, andrew cuomo. >> what do you mean they disappeared? >> all of a sudden yes, the euphoria of an oprah candidacy could take the national consciousness. >> i got an enormous number of calls from democratic friends, do you think oprah could do it. how would this work, this and that? i think what it represents is the fact there is no natural moment of the democratic party and democrats look around seeing 20 people all thinking they will be president, nobody really excited about. >> i will add one ting that

montage we saw there, during the last 84, i was havingen existential crisis. because the republican crisis was down on the future of america. contrast so stark with the democratic national convention, a staged love affair, military brarks flags all over the place, model and patriotism i gravitate toward as a conservative. >> i absolutely loved, i not just like you the democratic national convention hit all the notes. >> i like that message, contev servetives liked -- o conservatives leaked that message. i think it's continuity. >> i think it's inteet sweet of you to be worried about cyr sten jill brand and cuomo. i think what makes her a real potential part of this conversation eddie i'll ask you, i think that she connects with

people across america in the way no democrat on the forefront, no democrat you might have named you think has been pushed aside unfairly, because you know they'd lose, no democrat can connect like oprah. and to the very part of this country that feels overlooked by the left. >> one of the things about president trump running for the presidency is he was in folks' homes regularly. there was this connection he had through the reality television show he has had. oprah has been in folks' foams e homes for a while and has cut through therapeutic space to give voice to what's deep inside, their problems deep inside. but i want to say this, this is not what the d most needs, our democracy is in trouble. and the idea of a celebrity, which is really the kind of

logical extension of name recognition, politics is entertainment. has really been a part of the reason why we're in such trouble. we need at this point not someone who will tell us, who will give voice no our ideals in the way that she did, that's great. we need someone to enact it. to move through the mechanisms of government to think about and help us rebuild our institutions, because they're crumbling right in front of us. >> that's the part to be proved. >> i could not agree more. this isn't about oprah or tom hanks or people going out there. but it is how long is this going to take us to understand that we just can't say we will get out somebody. think of the last three presidents, george w. bush, barack obowl, now donald trump. all very different men. all very different policies, all very different skill sets. they all loathed washington. none of them really liked being

there. and didn't make much of a secret about it and gene back if 1999, i had a neurosurgeon operate on my back, open it up, said before, you know, three, four things could happen, three of them are really bad. i just have to tell you that. i was glad i was having one of the best neurosurgeons operating on mying ba. i would guess, i have no idea, i would guess extraordinarily hard to become a neurosurgeon and it's hard to become a great neurosurgeon. thank you, but why do americans, i mean, americans wouldn't even i just don't understand why americans think that they can go to the neurosurgeon like they want the best neurosurgeon. they don't care whether they like him. they want the best neurosurgeon

to operate on their back. hell they want the best dentist if they get a tooth pulled. they don't go you know what, he's not a dentist. but i like him. i kind of connect with him. so i'm going to let him do a root canal tonight. just for the hell -- i like this buy the. that's how we have been approaching governing and as hard as being a neurosurgeon and a dentist is and a plummer, as hard as being everything is. it's pretty dam hard to run the most consequential, frustrating, government on the face of the earth and the greatest government on the face of the earth. i want to know when americans will grow up and understand that they need to elect people who actually know how washington works and know how to make their lives better. because i'm sick and tired of this. we will get outside and say, hey, walk, look where it's led

us over the past 17 years. look where we are with donald trump. >> mm-hmm. look, joe, if problem is that those people -- the problem is that those people who are experts who know how washington works, who know how things happen have been in washington for a long time. our thanks in no small measure to republican party rhetoric, but also you could argue the democrats as well, washington has been demonized. washington has been sort of pigeon-holed as everything, where nothing good happens and a place of incompetence and a place of bureaucracy and as a result, that hurts you. >> that taints you. >> that expertise that you got in washington. so, you know, look, who knows if oprah winfrey really wants to run for president and whether

she'll really do it or fought. i got to say, that speech the other night, i mean, that was something else. >> oh, yeah, sure. >> that was something else. and that's number one. number two, i will just point out that she has been underestimated at every point during her career. she has never been good on television. you will do a syndicated show. that's crazy. you will do a network, that's crazy, so i am not going to underestimate her. i'm not going to do it. >> but, so much of what you have just said could have been said about donald trump two years ago. always underestimated. he had mad political skills on bizarre level that few of us understood at the time. he knew how to connect with people and look where we are. but just one other point just to add a couple names it to. now i will offend everybody here, that's fine. but, jeb bush, jeb bush, not the

warmest guy in the world. he's odd. george one. was a lot warmer than jeb was, jeb is the best per governor and probably the best governing force i've ever come across in my life, extraordinary. he was an extraordinary leader, even if you didn't like his ideology, extraordinary leader. all the oxygen was sucked. we know he's a bad candidate. well, he was a great governor and he would have been a great president. mitt romney, listen, i know people don't like -- mitt romney would have been a great president. i think romney would have been a great president. you go back to barack obama 2008, we said it here, after just about every other debate the two best people on the debate stage weren't hillary and obama. but that's all everybody is talking about. it was chris dodd and joe biden.

those guys were one or two or 3%, nobody wanted to pay attention to them. they were boring, creatures of walk. they both would have been pretty dam good presidents. there are so many great things personally about barack obama, even though his, so many of his policies drive me crazy. but barack obama wasn't in my opinion to be a president. he was as i said a glorified state senator. if barack obama stayed in senate and learned the frustrations of walk, he would have been a much better are the in my opinion. i was too harsh on marco rubio. the same thing with marco rubio, if marco rubio i know a lot of rubio people hate me because i was so hard on marco rubio. if he runs in 2020, yes, sir what, marco has been in walk. mashco understands the frustrationings of washington. he is not doing what barack

obama and so many are doing, i'm getting elected to senate. i'm running for president of the united states. it's hard where george bush said in the debate where he couldn't complete a sentence, it's hard. >> something that may be contributing to america's political dysfunction the notion of the things we talk about on a daily basis are cultural issue, not politics, not something a politician can address or washington can address, when we elevate these cultural avatars, they're not relatable. >> make politics boring again. i remember david stafford, a former chief of staff in congress along with bart and rachel and then it was david, david and i were driving over o to. what and mississippi post-katrina and we were just

dumb founded by the inadequate response on the federal and state level. david and i were conservative republicans, socially conservative, economically conservative. david as he saw the message, he said to me, you know what's got us here, he said when people elect a governor, they aren't electing somebody to govern us. they have boxes to check. are they pro choice? are they pro-life? are they pro gun? check. it's those cultural issues that people obsess over and as david said at the end of the day, occupy about 1% of your time in office. everybody talked about abortion on the campaign trail. i don't really remember voting in the thousands and thousands of votes i took over four terms, i don't really remember voting on abortion or guns, maybe once

or twice on key issues, but you are right, that's if obsession, that's why we like people over matched by the job. >> let's just play this out and sigh wams. coming up, a break through on the korean peninsula the north agrees to send a delegation to next month's winter olympics in the south. what this means for the nuclear threat and diplomatic relations between walk and seoul. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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. high ranking north and south korean officials sat down for talks along the border. south korea says north korea has officially accepted seoul's request that the north send a delegation of high level officials an athletes to the olympic games, which begin one month from today in pyongyang. easing military tensions and

families separated by the korean war were discussed. they have agreed to open a hotline, something initiated by the north. joining us now former nato allied supreme commander. retired four star navy admiral james stavretis. he's an analyst for msnbc and nbc. also with us gordan chang. good to have you both with us. >> admiral, is this maybe a bit of good news we've been looking for? >> i think, joe, it's a sliver. one swallow flying does not a spring make, but life is kind of compared to what? and compared to another hydrogen bomb going off over the pacific somewhere which is kind of the logical next step in the arms testing progression, yeah, this is good.

i think we'll have a hiatus between now and the olympics but the hard stuff will come after. the question is can we build on this? let's hope so. i would say there's still a significant 10% kind of chance of a war on the korean peninsula, but compared to where we were a week ago, this is better. >> gordan, what's your take on this? >> yeah. a sliver is a good word. the thing i'm concerned about is we have not seen a fundamental change in the outlook of kim jong-un. for instance, during his new year's address, he actually talked about how sanctions were hurting him. of course he wants to come to south korea and get sanctions relief. the other thing that's important is this is stage three in a four-stage process we've seen from the kim regime for about seven decades. first, you refuse to talk to south korea. then you make a bold overture. then you demand concessions. that's where we are right now. they're asking for stuff, and if you don't get what you want, throw a tantrum. at this particular time, yeah, it is better that they're talking to each other than killing each other.

>> so what's the play? >> well -- >> is it for donald trump to once again play bad cop? >> what he's done is con strstrd both koreas. he has u.s. ones and he's bolstered them. he told the south korean president you can't do things. in other words, giving money to north korea, because it will bust you in sanctions. that's the same thing that president obama said to moon when moon took office last may. when moon wanted to give the moon to the north koreans, and so obama said no, you can't do that. trump is doing the same thing. >> is that the right goal? >> it is. at this particular time they're very close to being able to put a nuke into any american city that they choose with a missile. so yeah, we have to restrict the flow of money going into north korea. >> gene robinson.

>> admiral, right now north korea has nuclear weapons including perhaps a rudimentary hydrogen bomb and pretty sophisticated missiles. is there any prospect that it will change? in other words, will they continue to be a nuclear power, and is that something that the united states is going to have to accept whether we like it or not? >> yeah. gene, in the end, this is the gut question in the negotiations. a good way to think of this is kind of like two streams of threat that are closing. one is the delivery vehicle, hardening miniaturizing the missile side of this thing, and the other is the nuclear weapon, the hydrogen bomb. hasn't been tested open area. it's like in ghost busters, you don't want the streams to cross, and they are going to cross sometime in the next 12 months, 18 months. this program has accelerated enormously. our intelligence community missed that. that's the gut question, can we live with it? there's still a moment to stop

this before the streams cross. i think if we can do that, then you could conceive of a situation where we could use a deterrent regime, freeze their program, reduce exercises in the south. you could kind of construct a rude negotiation. it's going to be very tough to put all this together. >> but there's not a chance that they're actually going to give up their nuclear weapons, is there? >> i do not think so. i think kim jong-un has gone to school watching what happened to gaddafi and saddam hussein. the message from that course, dictator 101 is don't give up your weapons of mass destruction. i don't think we will in the end. we're going to have to deter him and that is going to be very challenging to construct a freeze that we can live with, because the military option here is unimaginably bad, two to four million dead on the korean

peninsula. it's a bad set of cards. >> it sounds like you think however they got there, the trump administration is actually getting to a better place and done what they should do and there may be a way to play this with a bad cop saying if you don't do this, i'm going to blow the world up, versus the good cop. is that a fair assess. your mind, and also to the admiral, how do you think the movie ends? is there a way to denuclearize or are we playing containment? >> if we really wanted to exercise political will, i think we could change a lot of things. people say china will never do this. north korea won't do that. that's true under the current inventive structure, but president trump can change that. for instance, you were in the treasury. we could declare bank of china to be a primary money laundering concern under the patriot act. that's a death sentence for that

institution. we could do that for other large chinese banks. that would be a different political calculus in beijing a and beijing could go to the north korean regime and change the minds of those around kim jong-un and say we no longer support the weapons programs and no longer support the kim regime. i suspect that we would see amazing developments in pyongyang because of that. china has that overwhelming leverage over the north koreans. >> gordan chang, thank you, and admiral, thank you as well. still ahead, the white house continues to battle questions about the president's mental fitness. we'll tell you what the administration is saying and what they -- what will and won't be part of the president's physical that's happening on friday. plus new information about a possible meeting between president trump and special counsel robert mueller. and we'll speak live onset with former homeland security secretary jeh johnson. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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saturday trump called himself, quote, like really smart. and a stable genius. do you think he's like really smart and a stable genius? >> i think this. if he doesn't call himself a genius, nobody else will. >> he beat me like a drum. he ran against 17 republicans and crushed us all. he ran against the clinton

machine and won, so all i can say is you can say anything you want to say about the guy. i said he was a seen phobic religious bigot. i ran out of things to say. he won. guess what. he's our president. >> is he still all those things? >> in my view, he is my president and is doing a really good job on multiple fronts. welcome back to "morning joe." >> i'm confused. >> it's -- >> it's funny. no. i -- actually, i have -- i really like lindsey a lot as a person. i really do. i don't understand, though -- >> he must be getting something. >> how can we be a race baiting

xenophobia bigot. i remember one time when he called me up yelling saying joe, you know me. you know i'm not a bigot. i said well, you play one on tv, and i think that may be worse than being an actual bigot. >> i they that was the loudest call ever. >> playing one tv for cynical reasons. this is what i've never been able to square. and it's one of the reasons why i have a problem with the column that you loved today from david brooks. david brooks and everybody loves this david brooks column by me, i guess. david brooks has spent a lot of his career splitting the difference. and for my party, former party, and your party, when we had extreme edges, well, david brooks was a great guy to split the differences and i was glad he was a voice of reason out there. i just don't know how you split

the difference with somebody who you believe is a xenophobia racist bigot. i have to say early december of 2015, two or three months before any republicans voted, donald trump started talking about the muslim ban. i knew immediately at that moment, and i said it on tv at that moment. december, 2015. i could never vote for this guy. and asked is this what germany looked like in 1933, in 1934? now, did i think donald trump was talented on the campaign trail? yes. yes, i did. and we knew him for 10 or 11 years, but i knew at that moment, and said at that moment, i could never vote for that guy. i said i was going to vote for jeb bush, and i said. then i voted for john kasich.

gene, is gene still -- help me out here. i just -- how do you split the difference, and okay, i'll make democrats uncomfortable and make them hate me too. i want to be an equal opportunity offender. how do democrats split the difference on bill clinton when they knew or many believed and would tell me off the air that he raped a woman. how do you split the difference to move your political agenda forward when in lindsey's case, he knows this guy's a racist, a bigot, a xenophobe. >> not everybody is able to split the difference. in terms of trump, i have no idea. i don't know how you can listen to that campaign and see how he conducted it and listen to the things he said and say, well, okay, we're going to meet in the middle someplace.

if your position on charlottesville is that there are some very fine people in that crowd of torch wielding kkk and nazi supporters, that loses me. period. there's no way i can get over that fence or meet you somewhere in the middle on that. there's not a middle on that. but people can convince themselves of a lot of things and they can forget and lose their moral compass very easily if somebody is in office doing things that they like. >> look, i think they've clearly moved their moral compass. they've in effect made a pact with the devil. they have a tax bill, they're getting deregulation right and left, all the industries being deregulated. young people appointed to courts. we have this horrible guy, but

look what we're getting on the other side. >> which i must say democrats and gloria steinem and people on the left said in 1998 and 1999 and 2000 and were still saying it up to 2016 until hillary clinton lost. now, most of the people i agree with and i respect loved the david brooks column including you. tell me why i'm wrong. >> i can't speak for david. it strikes me that when this presidency gets conservative plaud it from people like rich lowry, he's not talking about donald trump governing us in campaigns. quite the opposite. donald trump hasn't gone to the populist of his party. he's come to rich lowry. it's incumbent on lowry to

notice he's come to him. it would be ridiculous if rich were to not acknowledge donald trump's successes because he's governing as he advocated he's governing for fear of the fact that -- the biggest problem with the presidency is the president. if donald trump's supporters were being consistent, they would be miserable, but they're not. they're saying -- >> but david brooks is telling us pay no attention to his racist tweets. pay no attention to what he said in charlottesville. >> is he in. >> yes. read it. he's basically saying look. talk about charlottesville specifically. i'm just saying -- he's saying look at what donald trump is doing ideologically. even though the president is a -- using lindsey's word, a racist, a bigot, a xenophobia person, and is hateful, look at

all the good things that we're getting from the trump white house. and i'm just saying -- i'm not being self-righteous about it. we all have to make our compromises and we're all pragmatic in our own ways. i don't know how you make this -- how you split the difference when somebody undermines the very essence of what america is. and that is a nation that is one out of many. >> not -- i'm among them. i don't think this is something that you can dismiss and i think this president would be made better if the president weren't a part of it. that being said, he is. again, i can't speak for david, but -- >> i'm not attacking david. i think it's an important piece. certainly for conservatives to discuss. >> i think what he's doing is staging an intervention for trump conservatives reducing their influence because they're not taking the presidency as a

whole. you have to take the good with the bad, and people who don't reduce their influence because they're speaking to an audience that they already have. >> there's a line in brooks' column where he said i sometimes wonder if the invisible white house has learned to use another white house to deck us while it changes the country. as if to say that trump in all of his nonsense is happening while behind it all there are policies that are not being dealt with. although we're talking about the tax bill,ing a al though we' alg at what's going on with deregulation and drilling and what he's doing, we're not really focusing actually, the country that is, on the policies themselves, because we're paying attention to the circus, and folks are comfortable with that. >> and the problem is -- >> that's not democratic. >> let's bring to the conversation the national

correspondent for the washington post and republican communications strategist, rick tyler. you're a communication. i don't know if you'll agree with me or not, but the presidency is so much bigger than the policies that are passed. i suggested before and i know it's heresy that barack obama may not have been ready to be president in 2009, but we just celebrated the anniversary of the iowa caucus. i don't think tell you how many people said they wouldn't vote for him, but they wept openly when he went up on stage with his children. it showed we were a country that finally fulfilled the promise of our founders. we have a long way to go, i understand that on race. donald trump proves that every day. but isn't the opposite of that

also true. donald trump sends a message about who we are across the globe with every tweet that is racially insensitive or attacks women or suggests that a sitting united states senator who is a woman would have given him sexual favors for campaign contributions? rick -- i just don't know how we split the difference on this. >> there's no splitting. >> i don't think you can split the difference, joe. it reminds me of when linking talked about the better angels of our nature which is why we're having this discussion about oprah winfrey today, because she appeals to the better angels of our nature. i think not all the other candidates notwithstanding, i think she is an inspiration. she started out with nothing, and i'm not here to promote here. i think she's an interesting person. >> we have you and padoritz who are going to run a campaign. go ahead, ted cruz former

campaign spokesperson. oprah for 2023, go. >> she started out with nothing and beat phil don hue on the first day out. what oprah does is she's always shared her struggles. she's shared her vulnerabilities and triumphs and failures. people got to know her. people looked at her on television and said she's like me. she talks like me. i don't want to compare donald trump to oprah, but there are a lot of parallels in the sense that they both have a brand. oprah has an amazing brand. that's why i would encourage her not to run. trump also has a personal brand. very few people have a brand like that. but oprah seems to unite people and drives america toward the better angels of our nature where trump continues to divide

people. having said all of that, look, there are a lot of things this administration and the congress is getting done. i know a lot of our viewers don't like that, but i think the tax bill is not a perfect bill, but the economy is doing well. the president is, i think, under-- well, let's say this. the polls for donald trump are artificially high. why? because the stock market is going well and a lot of people on this network, a lot of people don't own stock, but half of america does, and america is doing well. and i think the republicans have made a bet. they said look, the way the tax bill was scored we'll have a trillion and a half in deficit spending. i don't think that's true. i think without the tax bill, i think we would have gotten that kind of revenue. the problem is we're going to spend it all. i think we're having an argument about who we are as a country, and what kind of policies we want to have, but what's sad about this presidency is that it shows that america is still very

vulnerable to having arguments that divide us apart on race, on ideology, on any number of things, and so when someone like oprah comes along and speaks about inspiration and a vision and working toward an america that we can all embrace, and people all around the world notice this. that's what's dangerous. in a sense the north koreans and south koreans are talking because they're looking at donald trump saying we're getting no leadership here, and then donald trump takes credit for that. if that's true, donald trump can take credit for a lot of things he's not involved in. that's nonsensical. >> it appears he's working from 11:00 to 4:00 now. i want to say for our viewers out there that noah rothman is in the vast majority, i think. what i said, i haven't seen anybody else say about david brooks' piece.

i think to put perspective on this, mika, i think a lot of people agree with david brooks' piece. there is one part that i do get, and i am guilty of it. >> huh? >> he said that people who are against trump who believe he's a destructive force are insulated and isolated, and if they have friends or relatives who support donald trump, then they say let's just not talk about it, which, i must say, i have told family members, listen, let's talk about your kids. let's talk about my kids. let's talk about football. let's talk about red sox. but let's not talk about donald trump, because i want -- we even have a guy who is one of the smartest guys we know. we found out this past weekend, still supports donald trump. >> i know. >> and we were agas. i felt like the woman that was

walking around the upper west side who famously said richard nixon won a landslide and not a single person voted for him. >> if the goal is guard your influence among conservatives because you're going to be important down the line. when the crisis comes, they're listening to you. >> the crisis is here. that's the difference. i think that's the difference. that's a great point. he says the crisis is coming. that's what separates david brooks and me right now. i think the crisis is here. >> and it's been here for quite some time. >> i think it's now. >> i think it's also -- we're sort of talking around another aspect of this which is important. going back to the point you made about how democrats rallied around bill clinton in the late 90s. clinton wasn't up for reelection. donald trump was revealed as a donald trump he is today.

he took a hard line out of the gates. he got into a lot of public fights about immigration and built a core base within the republican party and said that's the rhetoric i want to hear. that helped him beat the 16. had it been one on one, he wouldn't have done as well. >> i remember when ben carson made an inflammatory statement about muslims. he talked about it, and i said the sad news is his poll numbers will probably go up. and guess what. his poll numbers went up. >> this is the question. and this is the question for republicans. what about that big part of the republican base which stands with trump because of who trump is? and we've seen polling. polling asked people who support donald trump why. was it because of his policy or his rhetoric. most of them said it's because of how he acts. that's the question. >> joe, i agree with you in that

the crisis is here, it's not coming. one reason is that i think this that you can have a presidency separate from the president is just not the way our system works. and i think inevitably, that just doesn't work. you might think it's working for a week or for a month, but ultimately we give enormous responsibility and enormous power to one person, to the president of the united states, and if the president of the united states is not fit to hold the office, that's -- that's not a sustainable thing. >> he's supposed to be a leader. >> that's not going to end well. no matter what, there's no way this sort of presidency can function around indefinitely without him being involved. he's the president. >> gene is a great columnist. this discussion proves, and i'm serious here, that david brooks

is a great columnist. he's written a column that we've been talking about for five minutes, and phillip, i think conservatives and republicans will be talking about it for a long time to come. that's what a columnist should do. >> i they you're right. david brooks, i think, he's in this weird position. a lot of republicans who oppose donald trump which this is the entire point of his piece, but i don't know that there's actually a resolution that he offers. he does do a good job of pointi pointing out, yes, there's these things happening but look at the decisions made by the trump white house made quietly and without anyone paying attention to them. all of that doesn't answer the question of what comes next. if donald trump were not to run for office in 2020, who does this republican party nominate, and does he embrace the same policies as donald trump? that's a key question. >> i brought up bill clinton in this conversation and republicans need to understand

that democrats in 2016 paid in part. >> paid a price. >> for turning a blind eye for 16, 17, 18 years. hillary clinton paid a price. america is paying a price. mark it down tuesday, january 9th, 2018, the bill will come due on republicans who think this is all worth it. if you think america trading in their values in all the way donald trump has traded in his values for a couple of points reduction in the corporate tax, or regulatory reform around the margins, understand there's no such thing as a free lunch. you and your party are going to pay for it. >> and the country.

gene robinson, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," what we're learning this morning about president trump's upcoming physical exam as the white house battles back against questions over his mental fitness. we'll look at what sort of president exists for presidents to go public with their health issues. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we offer our price match guarantee too. and if that's not enough... we should move. our home team will help you every step of the way. still not enough? it's smaller than i'd like. we'll help you finance your dream home. it's perfect. oh, was this built on an ancient burial ground? okay... then we'll have her cleanse your house of evil spirits. we'll do anything, (spiritual chatter) seriously anything to help you get your home. ally. do it right.

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president eisenhower had a heart attack in 1955 and a stroke in 1957, and eisenhower who tended to always put the national interest ahead of his own sat down and wrote a letter to richard nixon, his vice president, saying here's what we're going to do. if i'm incapacitated for a period of time, you step in, but when -- and this was the rub, but when i decide i am back in form, i'll take it back. that's the question. what if a president shouldn't be the judge of that case? >> right.

that was john meacham yesterday talking about the foundations of the 25th amendment who formalize the succession of the presidency during a health crisis. is it time to ask more of our potential commanders in chiefs to put into law what they tell us about their health? >> after fitness to serve became a closing argument at his campaign. >> she can't make it feet to her car. >> donald trump will go far physical evaluation on friday. >> give me a break. >> amid new concern over the president's stability. >> she could be crazy. >> after a shocking week with tweets about nuclear war. >> comparing the size of his nuclear button with the dictator of north korea. >> his mental abilities. >> genius, a stable genius at that. >> and devastating claims denied by the white house. >> trump failed to recognize a

succession of old friends. >> president trump's age? >> at age 70 you will be the oldest person to ever enter the oval office. >> and diet of fast food were raised during the campaign. >> kentucky fried chicken. >> and besides some additional details, the candidate only provided a letter with his doctor's bizarre claims. >> will be the healthiest individual ever elected. >> which even the doctor would distance himself from. >> is that the way you write most of your medical letters? >> no, but for many trump i wrote that letter that way. >> recent candidates released health records but like tax returns, there is no law formally mandating disclosure. presidents from fdr oh jfk to reagan have told the public only what they wanted them to know about their health. and with democrats in their early to late 70s if they run in three years. >> harry reid referred to the potential field as an old folk's

home. >> now may be the time to establish what we should know about the health of our president and presidential candidates. >> she could be crazy. she could actually be crazy. >> with us now, jeff greenfield and susan page. we didn't know so much about john kennedy's health when he was president. we didn't know ronald reagan's battles in the latter part of his presidency. should we? should we have a yearly medical checkup? >> you get into a real problem when you distinguish between physical and mental problems. most of the democratic party insiders knew in 1944 that fdr was not going to live out a fourth term. that's why the vice president's deal was so hard. you go to grover cleveland who had emergency cancer surgery. the public was kept in the dark. my concern is when you move from that area to attempting to assess an emotional or mental

state of a president, you get into dicey areas. you worry about whether or not the psychologists who might be doing the study or bringing their own political values. is it crazy to believe certain political views? they are in the shadow of the 1964 magazine when gold water was deemed unfit by a group of psychiatrists who never saw him. sued for libel and won. >> there's a reason why the gold water rule still stays with us. when you go from physical to mental, as you say, and as you go to mental with donald trump, this is something as somebody said yesterday, you'd better have national consensus, an overwhelming majority of americans. >> one psychologist wrote he's perfectly prepared to look at trump from a distance and say he's a narcissist times 100. that doesn't mean mental illness. and i'm one of those people who is very reluctant as a liberal

arts major to assess psychologically. i'm prepared as a journalist to look at what he says and say he's a fab you list. he makes stuff up. he doesn't know much. narcissism, my 8-year-old grandson can figure that out. i worry about how this is supposed to happen. >> you have to have susan page, it seems to me, objective evidence, the sort of objective evidence that we do not have and most likely will not have. and is it -- i mean, isn't that the problem when we start talking about the 25th amendment, what jeff said, the difference between physical element. w woodrow wilson has a stroke that makes him incapable of continuing his presidency effect live. and someone may be in the early stages of dementia. >> we knew something this was something howard baker talked about with his associates in the second term of the reagan

administration trying to decide if there was a need to do something. he decided there wasn't. the fact is even in the absence of a law, we've had an evolving norm that presidential candidates release their taxes anymore complete medical history than president trump did during his campaign. the ultimate check on a president is the one with voters. voters get to look at a candidate in stressful circumstances, in debates, and make a judgment about whether this is something they trust mentally, physically, politically, to be their leader. that's been the ultimate check in american politics. >> i had a question for jeff. it seems to me that one of the things we're dancing around here is the self-awareness involved in what happens. eisenhower sitting down and being aware of what was happening and the need to look forward with that. if the donald trump were to suffer a cognitive disability, it seems as though he, unlike most other presidents might be

reticent to establish i am facing this decline, and here's what should happen. am i misreading that? is there another way this can be evaluated? >> no, and while the 25th amendment purported to solve some problems, it's dicey to bring in in this case. assuming you can imagine this cabinet and this vice president saying you're not fit, and trump saying of course i am. congress then has three weeks to debate that, and you need two-thirds of the vote in both houses. it's harder to use the 25th amendment than impeachment. a president who is asserting i'm fine, i'm a genius, just like wiley cay o coyote, the only me is the 25th amendment. >> and it is such an extraordinary remedy. it needs to be more difficult to have more difficult barriers than impeachment, because you're

basically taking away the will of the american voters. a guy that's sitting at 35% is one thing. it seems to me it would have to be at 10%, 11%, and have most of americans know objectively if you're talking about a mental impairment, but this guy is just not mentally fit to continue serving. >> well, i'll make one quick point. i think we treat the elderly in this country terribly. i think it's a national conversation we need to have. i want to ask susan page if we're questioning donald trump's mental fitness, is it not donald trump who started the conversation by talking about being a stable genius and the fact that he's so -- wants everybody to think that he's so smart? could he have avoided this whole conversation? >> certainly his response to

"f "fire and fury" could have been different. he shined a spotlight on his fiercest critics selling books, and in fact, with his response, reinforcing some of the arguments that michael wolff was making in the book about his mental state. that has been surprising the last several days to see how the president's responded to this. he has, in fact, as you're suggesting, fuelled this extraordinary conversation we're having as a nation about the president's mental fitness. >> susan, rick, thank you both. jeff stay with us. coming up the president used his appearance in nashville yesterday to once again tout economic gains under his administration, but not everyone is reaping the rewards from wall street. steve rattner digging into that next on "morning joe." ♪

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how do the record in your opinion -- numbers impact most american's bank accounts. >> donald trump is twisting things and making them look better than they are. for the average american, it's not that great. the stock market, you can see only 50% of the americans own any stocks at all. this includes iras, retirement accounts. when you drop below the m midpoint, only 28% of americans own any stock. and you wouldn't be surprised to know the amounts they own are quite different. if you're a wealthy person in the top 10%, your average holdings are $365,000. in the middle they're $15,000, and it drop down from there. for the average american, the stock market is not the boom that it is for other people near the top. >> all right. people were clapping when he said i know you're happy about this. >> look, it's a good thing for

america, but it is not -- i don't think people totally understand who the benefits are going to. you can see it in the next chart. stocks are up 17% in this country since the end of january. by the way, they're up just as much around the rest of the world. for donald trump to take credit for this is besides the point. for most americans their biggest asset is their house. it's up 4% during the time period, and their wages which are up 2.3% during this period. if you're in the blue collar class, your wages are only up about 1%. people who own stocks are up 17% plus. people who own houses are up 2 % to 4 %. you can see it in jobs. trump was tweeting about how the high stock market is good for jobs. let's look at what he produced in terms of jobs. yes, he produced 2 million jobs since he started. but that is actually the lowest number of jobs in a year since back in 2011. and in fact, in 2014 president

obama's administration there were 3 million jobs created. >> why is consumer confidence so high right now? you can look to quite a few i indicators that suggest americans are more optimistic when it comes to the economy than they've been in a long time. >> it's part of a rising trend that's been going on for a number of years. the fact is the economy is going well. we are creating jobs. for the rest of the world, this is the highest growth frame for a decade. things are going pretty well. the thing you have to ask yourself is how much credit does donald trump get for that. he hasn't done that much, and also the fact that i don't think the stock market is what's going to make his base rich again. >> jeff, if you talk to business owners, they'll say trump is for us. he's on our side. we always felt like president obama was against us. we heard this all the time, and he doesn't have a single person in the white house that knows how to create a job. >> there's a story from the

kennedy administration where the secretary of the treasury is on a commercial airplane. a businessman said what about kennedy's tax plan. he said why i am against it? because i'm a republican. i think the business community sees the anti-regulatory and the tax bill is loaded toward what is left of the investor class. i don't think that's surprising. there's another chart that i just saw that said in terms of net worth, american still haven't fully recovered from the disaster of ten years ago. is that right? >> that's true. and it's in large part because most american's houses are their principle asset. in general they're not back to where they were. the business class is happy with trump for all the reasons we've been talking about. for the average american, it's not clear how well they've done. >> well, after the election there's a fascinating poll where

essentially republicans as soon as donald trump won, economic confidence among republicans spiked. alo along democrats it tapers off. we saw numbers which show that confidence among small business owners spiked immediately after the election. it's clear to me that there's some political aspect. >> first, i've seen that chart, and it's interesting. the flip in confidence if you're a republican or democrat was greater than it's ever been in another election. this was a highly partisan election, and if people liked donald trump, they believed it was great for the economy. if they didn't, they didn't. the business community is happy. they're getting deregulation and tax cuts and all this stuff. >> but you have long believed that the corporate tax rate is too high in america. you've written editorials for the op eds for the new york times suggesting you even go down to a zero percent corporate tax rate. >> i can never get over your

memory. how you can pull out -- crammed with alabama plays and all this stuff. >> i'm rain man. you should see me. >> you'd be surprised at what he forgets. >> just personally, not politically sthchlt. >> what the rest of the piece said is you should then take the money you save by lowering the corporate tax rate and use it to help average americans in terms of their tax bill, and in fact, and you should raise taxes on the wealthy by raising the capital gains. this does the opposite. >> my bigger point was it's not just republican business owners who like the corporate tax cuts. there are a lot of democratic business owners and democratic investors who also are more optimistic about the economy today than they were five years ago. >> going back to the earlier conversation, i know so many businessmen who are democrats who are never trumpers, and now they kind of say, well, you know, i still think the guy's a bad guy, but he's made me so much money. my stock price is up. my tax rate is getting cut.

so people do. the business community is happy with what they're getting. there's no question about it. my question is what has the average american gotten? >> fascinating charts. jeff, thank you for being with us this morning. up next, the threat of cyber attacks from abroad. an immigration fight at home, and a record breaking year for natural disasters. a lot to discuss with former homeland security jeh johnson who joins us onset next on "morning joe." my name's dustin. hey, dustin. grab a seat. woman: okay.

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we are learning more about president trump's potential interview with special counsel robert mueller. as we told you yesterday about the nbc news exclusive report that the trump legal team is discussing a range of options, those include written responses in lieu of a formal sit-down. "the washington post" is reporting muler is likely to seek a formal interview

according to two people familiar with the talks. mueller accompanied by his deputy raised the issue during a late december meeting with the president's lawyers. they cite a jay sole judge johnson secretary. seems to me getting lost from both sides and especially about the russian inquiry is integrity of voting system. the integrity of all -- of other systems in this country from the tax, whether it be from russia, china, or north korea. >> last year, 2016, should have been a wake up call for us. in terms of the cyber security of our election infrastructure. jim clapper and are i issued the statement on october 27, 2016 pointing the finger at the

russian government just before i left office. i designated election infrastructure as critical infrastructure in this country. we saw voter registration database across the country are exposed to cyber attacks. i'm pleased to see some states and this really is the responsibility of the states. some states have taken it seriously. they've heard the call. seep the threat and trying to address it. a number of others are not and at the national level, we're still frankly arguing over with whether or not we should do anything about it. and my concern is that we are as vulnerable now as we were a year and a half ago. >> mr. secretary, changing gears a little bit. yesterday the administration announced they were scaling back the temporary protected status for about 200 thousand salvadorians. another 100,000 some odd members of the international community in this probably on the block. i find it hard to imagine how

this happens. many of them have been here for 20 years. simply returning to the shadows. not going to be a deportation regime. how would this be implemented. >> first of all. temporary protected status is something that the secretary of homeland security has the authority to grant based off of a disaster like a hurricane or flood or earthquake. and we've got this in place for people in this country for a number of different places. and this administration has definitely taken a much harder line on tps. temporary protected status is supposed to be temporary. for a number of people existed for years and years. i actually ended tps for the nation's in west africa after we dealt with the ebola crisis and

ended it for certain class of haitians in 2016. it is supposed to be temporary. this administration is very definitely taken a harder line. i think we have to be sympathetic to the fact there are people who have been in this country for years and years with work authorization, the ability to work on the books, and when we terminate tps, we're basically as you say sending them into the shadows. contemplate lead leaving the country. leaving the kids behind. >> this is something that comprehensive immigration reform could address a path to citizensh citizenship. this is a population that estimated to be somewhere around 11.5 million. we've got to reckon with the population. they're not going away. more than half of the population has been here in excess of ten years.

they've become integrated members of the society. >> since we have you and it sort of speaks to the broad overview of dhs. so many topics to discuss. seems pretty clear we're going do nothing about climate change. and potentially take serious steps back. what would you say assuming the new president comes in in 2021. what would you wow say the united states need to do immediately to address the threat posed. >> my concern is climate change coupled with aging infrastructure in this koun tco this is a long-term challenge for nation and world. president obama wanted to address it very much. something he talked about all the time. it's something that the next president will need to come back to very definitely. it is a security issue. >> mr. secretary just to go back

to the first part of the discussion. why is it do you think this administration was so many people like general kelly and general mattis who understand if problems and understand the threats has done so little to actually deal with the substance of what happened in 2016 election. and in other times. >> well, obviously conflicted. president trump does not want to say anything that would acknowledge that his election was in some way subject to outside influences. i mean, you see that all the time in his own statement. his white house administration is obviously conflicted about that. >> let me ask you about that question. obviously the russians tried to influence the election. is there evidence that they actuality did? >> i'm sorry. >> influence the outcome of the election. >> oh. >> we've got evidence james comey did. i suspect james comey may have

more than the russians. >> i'm not a social sinetist. i'm not a pollster. i can't tell you whether votes were altered as a result of the russian hacking or some of the stuff we now see they put out there without atrickstribution. 2016 shown should be a wakeup call. my old boss say one of these days we're going to have a cyber pearl harbor. he said that in 2012. 2016 may have been it. now you're across the street. >> 1285. ierally walk across the

street. >> still ahead. president trump jumps back to campaign mode last night. telling a crowd at nashville how lucky they are to have the privilege of having him as president and having a chance to vote for him. also ivanka trump praises the speech that many democrats hope is the beginning of campaign to challenge her father in 2020. a trump versus oprah battle could look like in john me dora's dream. morning joe back in a moment. tomorrow, it's a day filled with promise and new beginnings, challenges and opportunities. at ameriprise financial, we can't predict what tomorrow will bring. but our comprehensive approach to financial planning can help make sure you're prepared for what's expected and even what's not. and that kind of financial confidence can help you sleep better at night. with the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant.

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as you can see, economic analyst staeve rattner. chair of the department of african studies at princeton university. always speechless. paren oi of questions over president trump's governoring ability. clearly comfortable on the campaign trail. did you see him at the game. >> i did. >> the president hit the road in nashville doing what he does best promoting his agenda and himself. he spoke at the farm bureau s 99th annual gathering. first president in a quarter of the century to address the convention. trump reminded voters about 2016 election victory and receiptly passed tax bill on capitol hill.

>> every democratic voted against tax cuts for the american farmer and american worker. republicans came together and delivered historic relief for our farmers and middle class. if the democrats ever had the chance, the first thing they would do is get rid of it and raise up your taxes. sometimes by 40, 50, 60 pkts hi% higher than you're paying right now. >> we're streamlining regulations that have plblocked cutting edge biotechnology. setting free our farmers to innovate, thrive and grow. oh, are you happy you voted for me. you are so lucky that i gave you that privilege. the other choice wasn't going work out too well for the

farmers. hate to tell you. or the minors or anything else. >> i will sign two presidential orders to provide broader and faster and better internet coverage. make sure you look up at real donald trump. it will only way around the media. fake media. turned out to be. there was no way to 270, and we got 304. we had 306 and ended up being 304. you'll explain that to me some day. >> i remember a month or so

after donald trump's inauguration, you actually had news papers and columnists surprised that donald trump would still be bragging a month into it about his electoral win and sayi ing false things and showing people the map. almost a year later and still talking about electoral college win. i just for some reason, this time. bruce springsteen song glory days reminded of the guy talking about his high school pitching. and here we are. he's in the middle of you know crisis after crisis and still talking about beating hillary clinton. >> he made that touchdown throw in high school and he'll never let anybody forget about it. that's, you know, yes, he won electoral college victory. he's still talking about it more than a year after the election. it's incredible. does give you an idea.

the more we learn, again, about the loop that plays inside donald trump's head. the more kind of concerned we get about that. he talks about the same stuff over and over again. that's one of the things he talks about. >> he certainly went to friendly confines yesterday, but he certainly had a receptive audience there among farmers who voted for him last time. if he runs again, will most likely vote for him next time. the question is how does he move beyond and start expanding the base or at least stop what appears to be coming in 2018, which could cripple his presidency for the next two years. >> yes the republican party is today a rural party. they understand, i think, that it's the suburbs that are going to deliver what looks to be now like a big blue wave.

anything could happen between now and november. that is what is in the cards. yesterday, we had foreign affairs committee chairman ed royce retire. 13 termser. southern california. orange county. you know, sort of the heart land of the republican party. and that is a seat that's probably gone. republicans are going to have to defend a lot of turf and triage resources and that's one where they probably can't afford to waste a lot of money. there's going be a lot of seats like that. republican party is going to be handed a suburban defeat to the extent that i think they have to think of it as a crisis. party can't exist as a rural party that is afraid of the coast and afraid of anywhere that's budding and urban areas. won't be sustainable. >> and the president may be basking in electoral college victory. some other signs that the midterms could be tough for its party. noah mentioned. ed royce of california is not seeking re-election. the 13 terms congressman joins a growing list of republicans who

have decided to not run in this year's midterms. royce's seat was considered as a rule vulnerable after hillary clinton won. after news of royce's retirement the cook political report leaned to lean democrat. royce will be the eighth house republican committee chair to leave congress during or after this terms. some like royce are limited from keeping gavels. others include judiciary chairman, financial services chairman. transportation committee chair bill. science committee chair lamar smith. house administration chair. diane black is leaving congress to run for governor. former oversight committee jason chavis left congress last year. >> it is a list. and even in the best of years, when presidents's approval

ratings are around 50%. party in power gets walloped. now with donald trump with his torque l historic low numbers certainly for the first year. how bad is this going to be? if we continue on this trajectory. >> my tricks are as good as the paper they're written on. not written on any paper. you'll never find it. doesn't look like it's going to be very good. we've seen in specials and offyears and last november every democratic that can vote is coming out. republicans rnts s aren't. republicans are staying home. there's a talking point saying committee chairman are terms limited going to get out of there because they don't want to be chairman anymore. bod lulg bottom line is no one wants to be in minority. >> total of 19 republicans who said they're not going to run.

if you look at where republicans are underperforming, it's in a lot of these areas where people are retiring and it used to be that republicans would win by winning the suburbs and they would win by rining the rural areas. they have. especially over the past year. in the age of trump. >> at least over the past been obliterated instead suburbs. >> there's a general kind of sense across the country that the two party system is broken. the republican party is broken. folks really want their lives to be fundamentally transformed by the politicians that represent them. i think every politician across the board should be concerned. even the democrats.

put up with the nonsense. >> if i were there, i wouldn't want to put up with people asking me. today you cured cancer, you scaled most dangerous cliff of -- side of mount everest and you broke the record for the one mile. tell us about donald trump's sweep. wherever ed royce goes, he's not talking about pakistan -- he's trying to talk about pakistan. if he campaigns, it's going to be all about donald trump. what democrats had to deal with in 1994. what republicans dealt with in 2006 and george w. bush. jean, i think it's going to be far more difficult with donald trump because his historically low numbers, but if you look forward, you see again, we're getting in this pattern.

i can see so donald trump wins the electoral college in 2016. democrats win huge in 2018. if we go back to 2004, this is what happens every two years and donald trump is re-elected. we are getting into this repeating cycle. >> yeah, we are. i mean, the asterisk here is that donald trump doesn't necessarily follow or establish patterns. he's not your usual republican. your general point is right. we do sort of have back and forth and some people say, well, you know, it's overreach. one party overreaches and there's a correction. i actually don't see it that

way. i think there's a misalignment. i think people the parties are not aligned with where the country is. where people are. and political system is not just responsive. >> that's such an important point that both sides, the base of both sides, especially the people who give money to candidates that run for president, especially on both sides, are so much more extreme than 70% of americans. and so it's one bad choice followed by another bad choice to offset the bad choice you had to make two years ago, and it just keeps repeating itself. unfortunately, it seems like our system is only capable we hear, of producing presidents from two parties that are. >> out of touch. >> so out of touch.

>> >> our entire political system i think continues to thi think. we all know the republican party is conservative and these are conservative policies. specific policies and we know the democratic party is liberal. and these specific policies. the axis now goes in a different direction. that's one thing that allowed some people like donald trump to win. donald trump who was not doing traditional conservative policies when he ran. he was talking about protectionism and trade. talking about at the beginning, universal health care. he certainly was talking about

keeping entitlements. that's not what republicans are generally sound like. a and, you know, in that sense, i think there might be an opening for a democratic who doesn't sound like a traditional democrat. until we get the axis right and figure it out. we're going to have this sort of back and forth. still ahead on morning joe, who could beat a billionaire tv mogul for president. how about another billionaire tv mogul. a preview that could be a race for the white house and what ivanka trump is saying about oprah. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. ♪

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culture, geography, race, religion. >> they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. >> they're the women whose names we will never know. >> we have losers. we have losers. >> they are domestic workers. and farm workers. >> dumping ground for everybody else's problem. >> they're part of the world of tech and politics and business. >> they're laughing at us and our stupidity. >> there are athletes in the olympics and soldiers in the military. >> i'm really rich. >> i want all the girls watching here and now to know. >> thank you darylen. >> that new day is on the horizontal. >> i'm proud of my net worth. i've done an amazing job. >> when that new day finally dawns. >> i'm not doing that to brag because you know what, i don't have to brag. >> take us to the time when nobody ever has to say many too

again. >> okay. that is what the campaign ad might look like following her rousing golden globes speech on sunday night. growing speculation that oprah winfrey will run for president in 2020. her partner, hinted at a possible run. it's up to the people and that she would absolutely do it, but a person in the know tells nbc news that she has no intention of running for president. some democrats are excited at the prospect of oprah 2020 ticket. former iowa state director tweeted at winfrey to call him and former obama administration adviser called oprah an amazing leader, but democrats were not the only ones blown away by oprah's golden globe speech. ivanka trump commented last night on oprah's remarks tweeting, just saw oprah's em

pourering and inspiring speech at last night's golden globes. let's all come together women and men, say times up. >> one person come together, john me dora. i think he's probably right. democrats need to decide whether or not they want their own donald trump and it seems like they really do. she gave a very good speech. she has very little policy knowledge as far as we understand it. somebody should be asking these questions if they're very serious about having this person come in and soak up the electorate and push out all these people in democratic party who we thought were rising

stars, but apparently don't have the statute. >> sure donald trump slugged it all the way out to may. -- elizabeth warren, andrew como, what do you mean they disappeared. all of a sudden the euphoria of oprah candidacy. >> look to take the nationshtio consciousness. >> i got enormous number of calls, do you think oprah could do it. how would this work. this and that. what it represents is the fact there's no natural leader at the moment of the democratic party. democrats look around seeing 20 people thinking they're all going to be president, but nobody they're excited about. >> i will add one thing. that thing we saw there, during the last year of democratic

national convention i was having a crisis because the republican convention was dougher and down on the future of america. contrast so stark with their democratic national convention which was a staged love affair with america. military, flags all over the place, kind of model and patriotism i grave at a tiitate this is not going to be the same convention. in is about continuity. >> i think it's sweet of you to be worried about elizabeth warren and come cuomo. i don't think you're worried about them at all. i think actually that what makes her a real potential part of this conversation, eddy, i'll ask you, i think she connects with people across america in a way that no democrat on the

forefront. no democrat that you might have named that you think has been pushed aside unfairly because you know they'd lose. no democrat can connect like oprah. and to the very part of this country that feels overlooked by the left. >> one of the points you made about donald trump when he was running for the presidency was he was in folk's homes regularly. there was this kind of connection that he had through the reality television show he had. >> right. >> oprah has been in folk's homes for a while. >> yes. >> she's cut across a number of demographics in doing so. she has been this kind of therapeutic space for folks to give voice to what's deep inside, problems deep inside. i want to say this. this is not what the democracy needs. our democracy is in trouble t. idea of celebrity which is really the kind of logical extension of name recognition politics entertainment.

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the way to santa barbara. already had report of five inchings of rainc inches of rain. once we get the pictures, not going to be pretty. u.s. one closed. very heavy rain in central portions of california. san francisco at three inches on rain. now in the east, warm up gone. d.c. is very foggy. warm air trying to move in. with that is coming a lot of low clouds. hopefully burn that off as we go throughout the day. see not a thick layer of fog. beautiful picture with the white house in the foreground and the monument. does make for dangerous drive conditions early today. this afternoon looks much better. finally in the 40s along i-95. been about two weeks. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.

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and into the light. >> right now we have the chance to be heard. >> it's really powerful that women feel em popowered to say something. i think the rest of us should just listen. >> people will be held accountable. we're sick and we're not going to take it anymore. >> i want the girls watching here and now that a new day is on the horizontal. celebrities wore black and times up pins and some brought social activists as their dates to show their support of the me too movement. >> before sunday's award ceremony, our next guess wrote a provacative and important column for the "new york times" entitled publically we say me too. privately we have misgivings.

contributing writer for the paper joins us now. editor and mary weiss. g good to have you. public versus private. what are the misgiving privately. >> i think it has a lot to do with the sense that there is no -- there's not enough room for distinction, for nuance. for -- you have to have a blanket opinion that all the -- that everything goes one way. so that in the differing instances. differing, whatever you want to call them. >> eric: even to discuss that seems to be off the record. >> it does.

and different levels which deserve a different conversation if you're looking at something traditionally. the crimes have different levels of punishment. i'm sure everything i saytwistey my best here. >> that's the point. >> people with talking past each over. you could have a great conversation about sexual harassment and look at it and the two sides are not actually hearing each other. which i've had some deeply personal experiences with that over the past few months. where we think we're trying to get somewhere, and we get absolutely nowhere was a of some explosion in the middle of it all. >> we see what happens when any sort of certainly columnist, but also public figures you know who are sort of writing a piece for the times saying i dress modestly to avoid unnecessary situations. you see people refusing to say.

you see matt damon making the exact point we're making now about differences between this sort of kinds of misconduct and these people are getting blurred publically. so if people like that, celebrities are getting hoaxed. you can imagine how much people that don't have that position of power are silencing themselves from the public conversation. >> you're right. the fact that such un -- one of the excerpts. the facts that such unwelcomed advances persist and often in the office is yes evidence of sexism. and the abuse power of the pay t patriarchy.

one could argue it's overdue. one could also ask why now? is this some form of massive collective displacement from trump. something i've wondered about a lot. >> me too. >> i don't know if it's to me some form of displacement. it's also siphoning off of you could argue outrage. since the movement specializes in outrage about bigger or at least as important issues. .

>> each of these individual cases being litigated in specific ways and trying to use them as a way to respond to this broader cultural moment. part of the challenge i've had over the course of the many too movement is how do we get to individual instances to a systemic critique of patriarchy. and how it defines the places we work. and how it defines how i'm socialized and how i interact.

how do we move from individual instances where we get into these messy distinctions and just blurring distinctions and have these kind of moments where x is the same as not x in some ways. how do we get to this discussion of patriarchy as such? >> one way to get to it is to continue right now it seems like there's one tool to dismantle the patriarchy and that one tool is pointing out sexual harassment, substance abuse, some horrible instances, rape. this is incredibly important part of it. it needs to move beyond that to the things that you're talking about. >> i tried to suggest that how we bring up our sons and daughters, it's a question i've had with my own daughter when discussing this. one of the questions, beyond the

question of did he -- did that particular person do something wrong or not. i'm not sure we figured out the larger questions. which is how do we change i guess in a way, how do we change some of the excesses of patriarchy. >> how do we change the culture. one of the big untold stories of this that i'm hearing about a lot from friends that i know, older friends than me in corporate america, is that the result of this so far is this sort of cult you culture of fea i know top partner of a law firm. went on a trip to argue a case. the critical other colleague of his working with him was a woman. he did not want to go on a trip with a woman because he was afraid of the perception of it. at the cost of the client, he brought along a male colleague that had nothing to do with the case. in a way, there's this rule and that's one of the big untold stories of this so far.

i don't think that's where we want to be going. >> no, there's so many different questions here. we'll follow this and have you both back if you will. i know it's tough. it's a tough conversation i think companies need to level the playing field on so many levels, not just actually this is what happens after the fact. >> right. >> it's how do you prevent it. >> how do you create a culture where the actual physical space where people work makes sense where it's fair, where it's open. where it's tans pareransparent. how is work conducted. how is it appropriate to do work. not the mike pence rule, but also let's level the playing field. it's definitely up to corporate america to do the right thing with this. thank you so much. our next guest says the president's conservative policy achievement would never make up for destructive shamelessness. joins us here onset next on

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joining us now. military foreign policy analyst and senior counsel at the foreign relations max boot. his new book is the road not taken. edward and the american tragedy in vietnam and it is fantastic to have you on the show this morning. first of all. steve rattner had a question about how long did this take

you. >> it took me five years. not an overnight project. >> that's the time. little different than michael wolff's book. >> little different. more facts. >> tell us about edward and why you devoted so much of your life to telling his story. >> he was an extraordinary secret agent. set to be the model for the quiet america and ugly america. one of the most amazing figures in history of foreign policy whose story has never been well told. he was a guy in the early 50s. helped defeat a communist rebellion in the philippines. went to south vietnam and helped create. really warned against a lot of the mistakes we made in vietnam. he was trying to tell the folks in the kennedy and johnson administration you're not going win this war with fire power. the one point he went into the office and dumped a load of weapons caked with mud and blood just very simple weapons that

they were using the people using these weapons are wearing pajamas. they don't have the sophistication we have. they are licking us and defeating us. you have to understand the ideas that motivate them. they thought he was an idiot. you can just reduce war to an equation. unfortunately there's a lot of that mind set which still prevails down to the present day. >> i was about to ask why his story is so important. >> i think it's incredibly important. when you think about why are we still struggling in the war on terrorism. we're able to kill a lot of terrorists. killed hundreds of thousands since 9/11. it's still generating more terrorists. comes down to politics. internationally it's about politics. about getting the politics for the countries right. that's something the headlines belief in. you're not going to defeat insurgency. you have to create a government what the people can support. that's something we don't focus

on because it's easier to go out and use drones and air strikes and kill individual fighters, but it doesn't achieve our results and unfortunately we still have not learned the lessons. >> is it lessons necessarily or the constraints of reality. hr mcmaster made his name. defining and describing. yet we have iraq, a stalemate now in syria in which we're receding a lot of territory to a government that's not legitimate and dealing with the world as it is rather than the world we would like it to be, no? >> i think we tend to deal with the world in the way we feel most comfortable in dealing with the world. we as the united states are best at basically technological solutions to our problems. we try to have technology for everything. spy satellites and drones and killing individual fighters, but it's much more a a struggle and very, very difficult to do in places like iraq, afghanistan,

syria, somali, et cetera to create stable political environments that can actually win the support and allegiance of the people. we throw up hands in despair. the point i make is we need mor weapon of war, who can go out there and engage individuals in these societies, understand those society, influence them. so we don't have to send american troops to do the fighting. so our local allies will do the fighting against our mutual enemies. >> you take vietnam, which at least in my perception was mostly a fight of vietnamese against vietnamese and trying to get america out of there. very different from afghanistan. where you've got all these tribal conflicts. let's just take it to a specific case. the president just announced he was going to send military to pakistan to try to get the pakistanis to cooperate with us. if you take this opinion, which essentially lawless societies, tribal violence. what would you do about it? >> i actually see a lot of

similarities with the kind of issues that landsdale dealt with in vietnam. but i think what we're seeing now is kind of the opposite approach. we're seeing what he actually protested against. which is this my way or the highway approach. and you can make the case for cutting off aid to pakistan but i would suggest a more fruitful approach would be to hug pakistan more tightly and try to influence their behavior in the way that landsdale did in the philippines and the way landsdale did in south vietnam. he was a leadership whisperer. and after he left, things kind of went off the rails. we've seen similar in iraq and afghanistan where we've been at odds with our own local allies. we really need somebody like a landsdale who can influence very difficult allies like pakistan in a more constructive direction. >> so putting aside the book the road not taken, let's look at

the road being taken now. your latest piece -- >> great segue. >> it's entitled never trump doesn't owe anyone an apology. >> well, this is my reaction to some of the triumphantalism you've seen from the trump supporters since they got a legislative achievement. you can have different perspectives. i'm not a huge fan of racking up over $1 trillion in debt but a lot on the right think this is a achievement that basically justifies the entire trump presidency. my reply to that is not so fast. yes, even if you're happy about a few policy achievements. i'm happy about a few things. i think we ought to be moving the u.s. embassy to jerusalem. i'm happy about the fact he's sending a few more troops to afghanistan. i think there's some positive things. i think it's far outweighed by the craziness and all of the incredibly offensive things he does. >> that were normalized. >> you can't just separate it

out. you have this president who is comparing the size of his nuclear button to north korea and risking nuclear war with north korea. you have a president who thinks that white supremacists are very fine people. you know, doing crazy, you know, attacking the freedom of the press on a daily basis, trying to undermine the rule of law, besmirching the fbi. you can't separate it out. it's not like an a la carte. it's like i'll take two things from the trump tray and ignore everything else on there. no, it's an all you can eat buffet. >> we've been discussing that. >> one of our themes this morning. the book is "the root not taken." you can read an excerpt at joe.msnbc.com. max boot, congratulations. up next, roll tide. >> roll tide. to make decisions when you know what comes next. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira,

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ah, turn it up. the host of the paul finebaum show, analyst paul finebaum. i just don't know where to start. how do you -- where do you put this alabama national champi championship in context with other championships? >> from an historical context, i think it removes any doubt. there wasn't much anyway. after last night, after the decision two years ago to onside

kick against clemson which won the game and then changing the starting quarterback who had only lost two games, i think nick saban is the greatest college football coach of all time and i won't hear any other conversation about it. >> can you think of any precedent in any sport where you had a coach at such a pivotal moment take out a guy considered one of the best players on his team, a quarterback with a 25-2 record, take him out for an untested rookie or freshman? >> you know, jalen hurst who started the game, started all the games after the first couple of -- last season, was the sec offensive player of the year last year. we were talking about him as a heisman candidate earlier. >> unbelievable. >> and tua tagovailoa, from hawaii, he had never been in a game where alabama had less than a double digit lead.

there's no precedent in sports history i don't think to put this in context. >> yes, what were your thoughts as you saw the final play and saw alabama pull this thing out? >> it was pure shock because on the previous play, the quarterback had been sacked for just a terrible almost game-ending loss. on top of that, for people who didn't stay up until midnight, alabama had a chip shot field goal to win the game and missed it. you could do movie on just the last quarter of the game, the improbable boost back and forth. the game's only 12 hours old, less than that, and i'm still searching for words. >> really quickly, how good are the georgia bulldog, kirby smart and how bright is there future? >> it's unbelievable. not only on top of what we saw yesterday. the quarterback, jake farm, just unbelievable in the first half. they are recruiting at a saban-like pace which is going

to set up a rivalry for the ages between georgia and alabama over the next couple years. >> all right. paul, thank you. >> thank you, paul. >> thank you for calling in. i can't wait to watch your show today. >> thanks, joe. >> great talent. >> always a pleasure. >> great to have you on. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. stephanie. >> thanks so much, joe. thank you, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover today starting with the dream team. democrats and republicans head to the white house to discuss a possible daca deal to avoid a shutdown. >> my friends on the democratic side are just dying to get somebody amnesty. i don't think the budget is the place to do that. >> while the president, still holding on to one non-negotiable, at least for them. >> we want a wall. the wall's going to happen or we're not going to have daca. >> critics say paying for the wall could take money away from the people paid to man it. and of course -- >> it's your job to gout