we'll be back 6:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. attacking the messenger. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. for the past year, the country faced a spectacle of the commander in chief waging a war against the members of the press. and even the concept of a free press. he's turned fake news into his go-to punch line. anytime he sees a threat to his presidency, whether it's on the question of russian collusion or a poll number he dislikes. let's watch him. >> you see there's the fake news back there. look. fake news. >> i call it fake news, fake polls. >> look, the media's fake. we're doing so well in so many wanz nobody talks about it. >> i like real news, not fake news.

if the press were not fake and if it was honest, the press would have said what i said was very nice. wait a minute. i'm not finished. i'm not finished, fake news. the press honestly is out of control. the level of dishonesty is out of control. the public doesn't believe you people anymore. now, maybe i had something to do with that, i don't know. >> as you know i have a running war with the media. they are among the most dishonest human beings on earth. >> the media. in other words, the fake news. any media that dislikes what he's done. today, the president received a double rebuke from members of his own party. in a column for the "washington post" senator john mccain said president trump is sending a dangerous message to the world. he wrote "the while administration officials often condemn violence against reporters abroad trump continues his attacks on the integrity of american journalists and news outlets providing cover for repressive regimes to follow suit." on the senate floor this

morning, mccain's colleague jeff flake criticized the president for using a term associated with the former soviet dictator joseph stalin. let's watch. >> the enemy of the people was how the president of the united states called the free press in 2017. it is a tes tament to the condition of our democracy that our own president uses words infamously spoken by joseph stalin to describe his enemies. this alone should be the source of great shame for us and this body. especially for those of us in the president's party. for they are shameful, repulsive statements. when a figure in power reflexively calls any press that doesn't suit him, fake news, it is that person who should be the figure of suspicion, not the press. we know no matter how powerful, no president will ever have dominion over objective reality. no politician will ever get or tell us what the truth is and what it is not. and anyone who presumes to try to attack or manipulate the

press for his own purposes should be made to realize his mistake and to be held to account. >> those where is two impressive statements but at the white house briefing today, sarah huckabee sanders dismissed his speech as a cry for attention. >> he's not criticizing the president because he's against oppression. he's criticizing the president because he has terrible poll numbers. and he is, i think, looking for some attention. i think it's unfortunate and certainly i think our position here at the white house is that we welcome access to the media every day. >> that was pathetic. then there was the theater of the absurd for weeks, the president has been teasing in an award ceremony of sorts for the most dishonest or corrupt media awards of the year. he wrote subjects will cover dishonesty and bad reporting in various categories from the fake news media. last week, he wrote the fake news awards, those are going to

the most corrupt and biassed of the mainstream pedia will be presented wednesday, january 17th. that's today. at her briefing today, sanders promised something later today. as of this hour, it's still a mystery what it is. that's the absurd. here's the reality. according to committee to the protect journalists 42 were killed last year doing their jobs. another 262 were imprisoned, 21 arrested on charges of false news. those were the phrase used. i'm joined by senator richard blumenthal of connecticut, columnist eugene robinson, and katie townsend, the litigation director for the reporter's committee for freedom of the press. i want to start with katie. congratulations on your organization. thank you. tell me what's the danger of the press, just using the press as his tackling dummy because he doesn't like objective reporting, not opinion like eugene. he's afraid it seems to me of front page facts that are thrown

out there as part of regular daily reporting. he doesn't want that objective reality confronting his behavior. >> these relentless attacks on the credibility of journalists, use of the fake news term repeatedly calling the press the enemy of the people, these have real world effects, not just here in the united states where we've seen an uptick in threats against members of the media just simply doing their jobs but also abroad. i think as both senator mccain and senator flake pointed out today, the president's words matter. they have an impact when the president of the united states uses the term "fake news" to criticize reporting that he doesn't like, that language is used as a license by people like assad in syria, duterte in the philippines to call reporting -- they don't like fake news. >> senator, when he uses this as a broad brush when he doesn't win the popular vote. there's not a single person that believes he won the popular

vote. he says he did. he said the only reason it's not counted that way is because all these people that added to hillary's popular vote were foreigners illegally will voting in the the country. he lies like that. that's his idea of news. >> when the history of this time is written, chris and i've said it before, the heroes will be our free press and the judiciary bulwarks of our democracy. when the president says he won the popular vote when he says that the crowd at inaugural was the biggest ever, the president has stood up to him. think about what we would not know now about russian meddling in our election, about the attempts to cover up and obstruct justice, whether it's the air force one statement or the trump tower meeting, and katie is right. the real world effects are staggering, not only abroad where 262 journalists have been

imprisoned over the last year alone, the most dangerous year to be a journalist in the world. here at home where dismissal of that russian meddling as a hoax or a witch hunt puts our national security literally in danger because the russians will continue doing it. and belittling the russian threat is a disservice to our democracy. >> you served all over the world reporting. latin america, countries run by people called strong men. >> yes. >> and their attitude is i am the state, they decide what the truth is. and they beat the hell out of anybody sometimes literally who dares challenge them in the press. >> exactly. >> this is what trump is emulating. >> this is the official press and they censor press voices that they don't like. i covered chile under pinochet. that's what it was like under pinochet. we have been doing this for a long time. as a journalist you have to have a thick skin because guess what, if officials love everything you write, then you're probably not

doing a very good job. you're supposed to hold them accountable. what president trump is doing is something different. he's trying to erase the line between what is true and what is not true. erase the line between reality and his own convenient fantasy, his own version of reality to have a democracy, we have to have a chronicle of events that we all agree on. we have to have an encyclopedia of facts we all agree on. then we can argue what to do with those things and what those events mean and what those facts mean. but he's trying to warp reality to suit his own political purposes, and his own ego half the time. i think it's more psychological than political. but it's very dangerous. >> senator. >> it is dangerous because it's also different from past presidents. anybody like me or anyone else in public life has to also have a thick skin and answer tough

questions. and past presidents have sometimes disliked what has been written about them. harry truman threatened to punch the music critic of the "washington post." >> because he made fun of his daughter's performance. >> and john kennedy canceled the herald tribune. >> canceled his subscription. >> what's different here is the relentless repeated attempt to erode the credibility and trust. >> anybody who writes on the front page of a newspaper writes the budget news on the evening news. senator flake today said a leader threatening to style of criticism is corrosive to our democratic institutions. this is the arizona republican senator talking. let's watch. >> an american president who cannot take criticism who must constantly deflect and distort and distract who must find someone else to blame is charting a very dangerous path. now we are told via twitter that today, the president intends to announce his choice for the "most corrupt and dishonesty

media awards." beggars belief that an american president would engage in such a spectacle. but here we are. >> katie, my daughter-in-law works with your organization. these are journalists, you're helping journalists. you're mostly lawyers going after to defend them. tell me what needs to be defended against this kind of line by the president. >> chris, i think that -- i want to underscore too that senator flake is absolutely right in how important it is that republicans as well as democrats speak out against this type of rhetoric. this is a bipartisan issue or it should be or a nonpartisan issue. press freedom is not only a bulwark of american democracy, but it's also i would say an american value. and i think in terms of what needs to be done, as i said, we've seen the uptick in threats against journalists not only threats to take them to court but physical threats and attacks on journalists not just abroad

but here in the united states. and so i think this rhetoric we're seeing from the president underscores precisely why it's important for organizations like ours to continue to support journalists. >> i'm telling you as a consumer of print, you're a consumer, you get up and have your coffee at 7:00 in the morning usually. you look at papers like "the new york times," an amazing newspaper, it covers the world. it's all there in print. you just open it up. it covers everything. you get "the washington post" with the best political coverage. it's all over the coverage. you learn so much in maybe an hour at the breakfast table. by the time you've had your cereal and coffee, you're damn informed with pretty damn objective facts. i don't know anywhere in the world we benefit from this system and to have this clownish leader making fun of one of the best things we have in the country, it's wonderful. especially if you have curiosity like we do. >> go to cuba and spend a week reading the official cuban newspaper. and see how well informed you

are. >> it's the latest from the castro brothers. the bad brothers. >> but the point is very important to make that more than words are necessary here. just last spring, the president of the united states threatened to jail reporters asked his attorney general to consider jailing reporters if they will published classified information. we all know prairie strant and that kind of action is unconstitutional, but the threat of it is chilling. and my republican colleagues as well as democrats need to do as well as say what they mean to protect the free press. >> then the absurdity of the president of all people calling out fake news. he seems to treat rumorsen an tabloid fodder as reliably as his daily briefing from the cia. let's watch the president in action. >> trump comes along and said, birth certificate. he gave a birth certificate. whether or not that was a real certificate because a lot of people question it, i certainly

question it. >> his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald's being -- you know, shot. i mean the wholening is ridiculous. that was reported and nobody talks about it. >> i guess it was the biggest electoral college win since ronald reagan. >> why should americans trust you when you accuse the information they receive of being fake when you're providing information that's. >> i don't know. actually, i've seen that information around. >> earlier you said president obama never called the families of fallen soldiers. how can you make that claim. >> no, i was told that he didn't often. i don't know. what do i know about it? all i know is what's on the internet. >> all i know. gene, a willingness to spew out nonsense about a political opponent. i'm no fan of ted cruz, nor is anybody but his father helped kill kennedy? how can you throw that crap out and your troops your 38% believe you? >> how do you work with a guy after he said that about your

father. you know. >> because he's. >> it's difficult to know how much of this is deliberate toward a political end and how much of this is just donald trump. he trafficked in wild ridiculous con spiry theories long before he became a politician. this is who he is on some level. he's willing to believe this stuff. >> how can he say things all i know is what i read in the "national enquirer." he's saying his iq is about 3? why would you say you believe all that stuff? senator, explain that. you must have some trump voters in connecticut? >> we have a fair number of trump voters in connecticut. >> what do they make of this clown show? >> i think that dismissing it as a clown show is a disservice to how threatening and how dangerous it really is because it is undermining angkor rosive to our democracy. and the real threat here is that people will lose faith although

frankly, what i hear in connecticut is that folks are watching msnbc. >> right. >> they're watching this show, watching other cable. they're reading at levels never before seen, and i think it is that kind of reaction that should be inspiring to many of us. >> also bad clowns. thank you, senator, blumenthal. eugene robinson, katie. coming up, learning more about steve bannon's bizarre testimony yesterday in the russia investigation. his attorney was on the phone with the white house in realtime with white house attorneys instructing bannon apparently on what questions he could answer and which he couldn't answer. democrats say the white house trying to gag bannon. maybe he wants to be gagged. there could be collusion between bannon and the white house. plus, it's even worse than you think. that's the title of a new book by david k. johnson about what donald trump is doing to our country, some of the secret stuff in the regulatory era we

haven't paid enough attention to. we will tonight. he joins us. and trump's racial language derailed hopes of saving daca and avoiding a government shutdown this friday night. we heard it last week from the president. today we got similar talk, this time from his attorney general. let me finish with trump watch. he won't like it. had is "hardball" where the action is. about medicine, but we know a lot about drama. from scandalous romance, to ridiculous plot twists. (gasping) son? dad! we also know you can avoid drama by getting an annual check-up. so we're partnering with cigna to remind you to go see a real doctor. go, know, and take control of your health. it could save your life. doctor poses! dad! cigna. together, all the way.

♪ keep it comin' love. if you keep on eating, we'll keep it comin'. all you can eat riblets and tenders at applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. senator john mccain defended the freedom of our press. for more than that, far more than that, he has also developed a warm relationship with the media, one that has evaded our current president. that relationship by mccain with the media was most clearly on display during the 2008 presidential campaign when he spoke at the al smith dinner up in new york. let's watch. it's fun. we'll be right back. >> some advocates for senator obama are less restrained in our enthusiasm, even in the media.

usually is at table 228 for example, is my old friend and green room pal chris matthews. he used to like me but he found somebody new. somebody who opened his eyes so body who gave him a thrill up his leg. and we've talked about it. i told him maverick i can do. but messiah is bob my pay grade. is above my pay grade. you know, it's going to be a long, long night at msnbc if i manage to pull this thing off. >> he has a sense of humor. a good man. i don't agree with him on a lot of stuff but a good man. we'll be right back.

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for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. welcome back to "hardball." former white house strategist steve bannon is at the center of a growing showdown whether the white house can effectively gag witnesses in the russia

investigation. during his 11-hour appearance before the house intelligence committee yesterday, he said the white house instructed him not to answer questions about his time in the white house or in the transition. in an effort to compel his testimony, the committee subpoenaed bannon on the spot yesterday. however, nbc news reports now that after the subpoena was issued bannon attorney william burke conferred with the white house officials who continued to insys that bannon should still not answer the committee's questions. despite following those orders for the most part, axios is today reporting bannon made one conspicuous slip-up. "bannon admitted he had had conversations with reince priebus, sean spicer and legal spokesman mark corallo about don junior's, that's donald trump jr.'s infamous meeting with the russians in trump tower in june 2016." they were all talking about that meeting at the white house. meanwhile, after the special counsel also served bannon with a grand jury subpoena last week, a source close to his lawyers tell nbc news now that bannon

will now be questioned by robert mueller's team instead of testifying before a grand jury. let's get to what that means. i'm joined by about denny heck who sits on the house intelligence committee, julia ansley, reporter with nbc news, and joyce vance, a former federal prosecutor. talk about this congressman. what about this slip-up where yesterday in his testimony before your committee, steve bannon admitted they had talked in the white house about that meeting at trump tower involving donald junior and jared and manafort and the russians. >> well, after 11 hours anybody is bound 0 let the truth out a little bit, chris. the question here that has prompted this, what are they trying to hide? we shouldn't be surprised. this is an administration that is the first in american history at least modern history not to disclose the president's tax returns. now evidently he is instructing witnesses before the intelligence committee to withhold information. what are they trying to hide,

chris. >> let me get back to what you must think. that surmise i think appropriately is what bannon himself said in the book, michael wolff's book. they're worried appropriately about money laundering involving jared and donald junior, the whole bunch of them because somehow they might be involved with having a criminal enterprise on the way to the white house. some way to make money as they run for president. i assume that's what steve bannon says they ought to be worried about. that's what he said. >> i'm not going to get into the specs of what he said by committee policy. but i will say this. whether or not he gets away with stiff arming the intelligence committee, he's not going to get away with stiff arming bob mueller. chris, i don't know that you know this, but you know what bob mueller's nickname was when he arrived at the department of justice? it was bobby three sticks. robert mueller iii, robert mueller the hockey player and robert mueller the boy scout. he is straight as they can be. he it's his lunch at his desk every day, a decorated marine

veteran who i think won the purple heart. this guy is laser focused in on getting at the truth and steve bannon nor the white house is going to stand in his way. >> bannon's refusal to answer questions at behest of the white house spurred debate over executive privilege which allows the president to keep certain white house communications private. the white house is not officially invoking that privilege yet but lawmakers tell us it reserved the right to do so. last night the ranking democrat on the committee, adam schiff, we know him well, accused the white house of gagging a key witness in this investigation. >> the scope of this assertion of privilege, if that's what it is, is breathtaking. it goes well beyond anything we have seen in this investigation. this was effectively a gag order by the white house preventing this witness from answering almost any question concerning his time in the transition or the administration and many questions even after he left the administration. >> however, white house press

secretary sarah huckabee sanders said today the trump white house is only following the same procedure she says as past administrations. >> this white house is following the same practice that many white houses before us have that have gone back decades that there is a process that you go through anytime you have congressional inquiries touching upon white house, the congress should consult with the white house prior to obtaining confidential material. executive privilege is something that goes back decades because it's something that needs to be protected. whether it's during this administration or one 20 years from now, we want to make sure we follow the process and the precedent. that's all that's taking place here. >> there's the meat of the story tonight. you're on top of this, julia. it seems to me the president is worried. his people are worried. he was sitting around in the oval office, we've seen pictures with his feet up on desk going, sitting around shooting whatever. talking about the whole question

of what they're facing. what's what people do in politics. how are we exposed. >> what happened in the meeting? what did donds junior do? who set up the meeting all that stuff and all the time there's bannon in the room with them. bannon has all this in his head. trump knows it. he's fired bannon after trusting him for all those months. he must be scared to death. what did i say while he was in the room and what can he bring against me to bob mueller when the time comes. >> that's exactly the argument. that's why the white house is so worried what bannon might say. he expos him to a lot of vulnerabilities not only because he was in the room and around during the campaign, transition and into the white house but because bannon is not implicated in a lot of this. just from the fact he was subpoenaed, he's not the target of this investigation. therefore, he can go forward and say a lot. he can talk about the conversations that he had with

priebus and spicer like what he slipped on yesterday. it's almost a warning shot. >> the meeting in june at the trump tower. >> to say look what i know. >> his attitude towards jared and donald trump jr. he doesn't think much of these nepotism types. >> yeah, that all came out in the book, obviously. if you think about it, bannon and kind of the breitbart band, people who come from the outside. they don't like nepotism, they don't like the swamp. he would be against someone like a jared kushner. and, of course, priebus, as well. he wants to kind of establish himself as an outsider and he's always gotten under their skin and now he's in a position to do it more than ever. >> he has the truth, a memory and he's a pretty smart guy. steve bannon reportedly told michael wolff he doesn't believe claims of executive privilege can protect the white house from mueller. according to wolff's book, he said there's no executive privilege. we've proved that with watergate. they're sitting on a beach trying to stop a category 5.

joyce vance, what do you make of this, we've been through nixon, we've been through cases where they've tried at the white house to say we can't talk almost like a husband can't testify against his spouse or something like that. how hard is that principle of executive privilege here? >> you know, executive privilege is one of those amorphous legal topics not fully fleshed out. it develops over time in the case law. so the question, does it protect these kinds of testimonial experiences that the white house is trying to apparently shut down? the most interesting aspect of this problem is that so far, the white house has gotten away without having the president actually invoke the privilege. and so none of these witnesses can --s are obligated to avoid answering the questions. bannon could have gone ahead and testified because the white house had not invoked it. we won't see a real test of the privilege until it's invoked until it comes before a tribunal. one thing i do think is correct

is he'll have a lot less success in front of bob mueller than he'll have had on the hill. >> tough question now. suppose steve bannon wants to tell the truth and the white house reaches outs to him and says you can't. what's to stop hip? what penalty would he face if he decided to tell it all? regardless of what the white house lawyers say about executive privilege. >> he won't face any penalty whatsoever in front of the grand jury. he can go in, he can testify, the rules of evidence have very limited application there. if they were still on the hill, the white house could perhaps go to court, file some sort of a temporary restraining order to keep him from testifying until the privilege issue was decided. but here's the double-edged sword for the white house. once they start trying to keep a broad brush of bannon's testimony out of the view of investigators, it really looks more and more like they have something to hide. executive privilege should have a narrow focus on deliberative type issues. it's not meant to entirely

exclude the activities of an administration from start to finish from investigators' view. >> okay. we've got a republican supreme court, however. we'll see. the congressman, thank you denny heck of washington state and thank you julia ansley of nbc news and joyce vance. thank you for your expertise. up next we'll speak to a journalist who has covered trump for decades. david johnson is out with a new book saying the trump administrationings is destroying our book. "it's worse than you think." that's going to be interesting. this is "hardball" where the action is. prestige creams not living up to the hype?

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we've begun the most far-reaching regulatory reform in american history. so together, let's cut the red tape. let's set free our dreams and yes, let's make america great again. so this is what we have now. this is where we were in 1960. and when we're finished, which won't be in too long a period of time, we will be less than where we were in 1960, and we have a great regulatory climate. okay? >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump last month literally cutting through the red tape of government regulations. in his new book "it's even worse than you think," what the trump administration is doing to america," david johnson writes this is an administration that looks for the least qualified on

the most aggressive termites to eat away at the structure of government. he notes the trump administration has rolled back environmental and worker safety protections with the occupational safety and health administration even removing data on worker fatalities. people that get killed on the job from its website. and has proposed reducing spending on science, education veterans. he's nominated people like environmental protection agency administrator scott pruitt who himself sued the epa14 times as oklahoma ag. and just last night, "the washington post" reported that more than three-quarts of the members board at the national park service quit out of frustration that interior secretary ryan zinke key refused to even meet with them or convene a single meeting last year. i'm joined by author david k. johnson. i just got a note from the head of the peace corps. she just quit the park service board because they never meet. i get the sense one of the reasons the dow jones is going up, it's generally good news but in this case i wonder if it

policy. it means all the stuff we rooted for for the last 40, 350 years, the clean air and water act, are being termited to death, being killed by administrator who's want the government to fail in its mission. your thoughts? >> exactly. and chris, there's no free lunch. if you're not going to enforce pollution laws, you're going to have more people get cancer, children develop asthma, more people with heart disease. if you're going to stop making sure that we do the best we can or at least try to reduce worker deaths, 4800 a year in recent years, and withdraw the data, more workers are going to die and more marginal employers are going to pay less respect to safety practices. plenty of places i would be thoroughly in favor of redoing or simplifying regulations but that's not what they're doing. they're putting the people from the industries that are affected in charge and letting them

remove the regulations that are designed to protect public health, public safety. >> you know, every time people say they don't like regulation, i say when you open up a can of tuna fish, you open it up, you want to know if it's safe and how you know? you don't like regulation. >> you want to get on an airplane that's not safe? what do you mean you don't want regulation. write in your book donald trump's manifestly unfit to hold any public office. he lacks the emotional stability, knowledge, critical thinking skills and the judgment to be commander in chief. how do you know that? >> from knowing donald for 30 years and from his own behavior. i mean, donald is just paulingly ignorant about the world. this is a man on his first foreign trip goes to saudi arabia and praises them for fighting against terrorism in the saudis? the biggest funders of terrorism in the world. >> 15 of the guys on the airplane, was it 15 or 14 of the 19 on the planes on 9/11 were saudis. >> exactly. and so donald -- look at the

tweets he does and the things he says. the key thing to understand is donald trump's presidency is unlike every other because instead of trying to make the country better and some failed and some succeeded at that, donald's presidency is about donald. he wants to you go oh, the great and glorious leader. thank you, donald. let's go around the table and see how much we can do to praise the glorious leader. that's not how you operate in a democratic society. >> you opened up your book by calling him a nar sissist. people get the wrong idea what that means. they think you think you're good looking. no, you think you're the center of the universal. that's what it is. >> donald's narcissism unlike that of the mythical narcissus has so far done him very well, got him all the way to the white house. >> what do you think are his deepest values. >> his soy hole word about the poor countries i'm going to close the show tonight by saying he judges people by the value of the real estate they live in.

if you live in a period neighborhood, you're no good. if you live in a hice rice like him, you're a good person. the more money you have, the more he likes you. the less money, the less he represents you. it's literally true. when it has to do with race it, often does. >> eric trump just said yesterday that all his father cares about is green, is money. that's basically. >> that's a defense. that's his defense. >> yes, but it's also a revelation. and an admission. and donald judges people by the content or presumed content of their wallets. when he was in business how much he could get out of your wallet without pulling his part of business bargains. who does he rely on. >> robert mercer the hedge fund guy who helped women with targeting voters perhaps with the help of the russians and mercer says human being's worth is entirely basened on net worth and his cats are worth more than measures because they give him pleasure. that's the values donald has. >> i hope the voters between

2020 and 2018 in fact, pay attention, them have to google the tax bill he just signed. see what it does to them. thank you, david cay johnson. your book is "it's even worse than you thai," which is really worse. up next, trump's comments about african effective countries have upended immigration talks. general jeff sessions says a good nation doesn't need il literal immigrants. you're watching "hardball." ksil. and how do you feel? [sighs] like a burden's been lifted. those other cards made you sign up for bonus cash back. then they change categories on you every few months. then you had to keep signing up! you...deserve...better. now get out there and keep earning that 1.5% cash back on every purchase everywhere. thanks, doc. i'm not a doctor. what? [whispers] time to go. what's in your wallet?

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welcome back to "hardball." this weekend will mark the one-year anniversary of president trump taking the oath of office. unless lawmakers can get their act together and him too, it will mark the first government shutdown since 2013. the first trump shutdown. anyway, the congress is currently careening toward a shutdown as republicans and the president refuse to deal with democrats on daca to help the dreamers. late today, the president

criticized a bipartisan immigration proposal telling rioters the deal is horrible. he said it was pretty good last week and "the opposite of what i campaigned for." progress on an agreement had stalled following the president's comments about african countries. trump's allies lined up to defend him. let's take a look. >> what good does it do to bring in somebody who is illiterate in their own country, has no skills and is going to struggle in our country and not be successful. >> my father sees one color, green. that's all he cares about. he cares about the economy. he does not see race. he's the least racist person i've met in my entire life. it's nonsense. >> a new quinnipiac poll shows a majority of americans do not agree with the son. 59% think trump does not respect people of color as much as he respects white people. for more, i'm joined by heidi press bow la, "usa today." eugene scott, political reporter for the "washington post" and

tamron keith, white house correspondent for npr. let me just ask you the simple question, how is his use of the word he used african countries and haiti, what has that done to the chances of the democrats wanting to sign on to any deal? heidi? >> aside from the language, there's the language itself and there's the erratic behavior of seeming like you're going to accept this deal. you invite them all to your office and trash it. so that basically introduces this element of total unpredictability. they feel like schumer said yesterday they didn't feel like they could deal with him anymore. then the use of the s-hole word upset everyone on capitol hill. now you see many lawmakers trying to work around him on this. and even mitch mcconnell saying that the president has to tell us what his bottom line is. even the republicans feeling like they can't read their own leader. >> eugene, who wants to fight and who wants to deal? you can usually tell. i don't know if i can tell. who would like to have a deal by

friday night and who would be quite happy to have the fight? i think the democrats want a fight over daca. that's my hunch. >> i think they want to stick to what they put out there saying we believe that the plan and ideas we have that we've proposed before trump got into the white house would be the best option for the american people. but i think ultimately, everyone who is up for re-election or who thinks they can lose their seat is who wants to fight. they will be held accountable for this in november if they don't get a deal. >> government shutdowns don't happen accidentally. so people have to do it with purpose. it's not clear right now based on what we're hearing from the hill whether people really, whether democrats really do want a shutdown or not. >> i think they do. >> what is clear is they want to make republicans take the hard vote. >> don't they want to see a country where the hispanic vote which grows every year and will grow our entire lifetime, it's the way things in terms of

population, reproduction it, all adds up to a higher and higher percentage maybe, it will be 20% some day fairly soon. why wouldn't the democrats want to have a lock on that community by standing up for young people who came here because their parents brought them here and be noticed taking the good fight for them and let trump oppose them? how do they lose? >> as a party at large, yeah, they're probably all with you. i think there are some red state democrats who feel like this could be used as a kuj counsel against them at the state level. if you're a joe manchin, claire mccaskill, heidi heitkamp, look what this guy did, he held up government funding over helping dreamer kids. there's a segment of their population. >> there's steny hoyer who basically said we are united 100% on that. >> absolutely. we saw the president express once again little interest in speaking with the black caucus about this deal as a whole. the black caucus to many people's surprise has a vested interest because daca is not

limited to immigrants from mexico an latin american countries. >> as we've heard. >> new polling suggests voters are poised to blame republicans if congress fails to keep the government working. the poll conducted by the democratic leaning firm hart research associates surveyed voters in a dozen battleground states and found 42% of americans would blame the president and the majority, only 31% would blame democrats. a whopping 81% of the battleground voters say any agreement should include a deal to prevent the deportation of undocumented dreamers. >> here's the thing. we're not talking about all democrats. all you need, you know the makt, is about 10 democrats in the senate to vote for this. and you know, they can kick that can, pump that football, whatever you want to call it. and not deal with daca. >> give me ten games. i understand constituency politics. hispanic people are very

sensitive, reading the paper, watching the news who is on our side. we saw what happened in california a decade or so ago. good-bye to the hispanic vote out there about the republican party kissed good-bye if you want to be blunt about the hispanic vote. the latino vote. the round table is sticking with us. we'll see what the buzz is in d.c. what's new for us and what's new pussycat. you're watching "hardball." i was wondering if an electric toothbrush really cleans better than a manual. and my hygienist says it does but they're not all the same. who knew? i had no idea. so she said, look for one that's shaped like a dental tool with a

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into the 2018 midterms they got one last night in wisconsin. catch this. democrats flipped the state senate seat held by republicans for 17 years. democrat patty schachtner defeated her opponent by 11 points. trump carried that same district by 17 points. that's a turnaround of 28 points since a year ago. anyway, govern skos walker up for re-election this year sounded the alarm last night. minutes after the race was called he tweeted the senate district 10 special election win by a democrat is a wake-up call for republicans in wisconsin. he knows his business. they're in trouble. we'll be right back. of my parents and my grandparents. i was getting all these leaves and i was going back generation after generation. you start to see documents and you see signatures of people that you've never met. i mean, you don't know these people, but you feel like you do. you get connected to them. i wish that i could get into a time machine and go back 100 years, 200 years and just meet these people. being on ancestry just made me feel like i belonged somewhere.

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especially in some of the latino dominated states like california, so significant that this is a state that should pick up seats they could actually lose seats if this goes forward. >> go ahead, gene. >> first polling numbers back from oprah, trump match-up. oprah 52, trump 39. >> is this adults or registered voters. >> it's adults and she's leading. >> i don't know about adults. i want to see likely voters. give us a nice number. >> a new npr poll out. as you were talking in your first segment about the president's attack on the media seems to be working especially among republicans. 90% of republicans polled have little or no confidence in the news media. >> bless their hearts. anyway, thank you, heidi, gene, and tamron. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." ande dog grooming palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what? so, she turned to legalzoom.

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trump watch wednesday, january 17th, 2018. donald trump i've noticed judges people by the price of their real estate. he doesn't want people from poor places. he wants them from the better off parts of the world. nigerians, stay where you are. norwegi norwegians, come on in. like so many of us i have grandparents who came to this country for a better life for hope leaving behind levels of real estate he might view as sub par. the real matter at hand here since we're talking about the head of state is how he sees not the price of land or a piece of land but the value of an individual human being.

good leaders talk about people. they root for people no matter their condition. some very good leaders root for those people that have it the hardest all the harder. bobby kennedy whom i just wrote a book about made a point of exploring places where poor people live, the mississippi delta where kids with distended stomachs barely survived on a diet of molasses. families of california workers where their employers refused to let them organize. native americans living on reservations. he learned what he could. imagine walking in their shoes and called those conditions unacceptable in this country. what a far cry from this president who simply dismisses such people from human consideration. my book is "bobby kennedy a raging spirit," now ten weeks on the "new york times" best seller list. the president we have is donald trump. close to a year in office but not a step closer to learning his duty to all the people either those who live on a block along fifth avenue nor hold a

kumpbt membership in sunny mar-a-lago. that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on "all in." >> i think my positions are going to be what the people in this room come up with. >> the president rejects a bipartisan solution to the problem he created that he said he would sign. >> i mean, i will be signing it. i'm not going to say gee, i want this or that. i'll be signing it. >> tonight the looming shutdown and the democratic plan to call his bluff. >> mr. president, mr. president. >> then. >> mr. bannon, what did they ask you in there. >> the white house admits they were on the phone with steve bannon during his russia hearing testimony. >> is the white house afraid of what steve bannon might say? >> what we know about what bannon said and how he reportedly slipped up. and as stormy daniels goes on the record, just how big a problem is it for the president? >> the count is growing