>> how are you going to build a 1900-mile wall? >> i'm a builder. >> they say things during the course of the campaign that may not be fully informed. >> what's more complicated is building a building that's 95 stories tall. >> the wall just got ten feet higher. >> even the wall. once we briefed him. >> by the way, mexico can pay for the wall. >> mexico is not going to pay. >> one of the groups is saying you can't get mexico to pay. how foolish. >> we have some ideas on how things like visa fees -- >> of course they'll pay. if you have the right guy negotiating, they'll pay. >> it's possible that we could get the revenue from mexico. but not directly from their government. >> we're not going to be the stupids any more, we're the stupids, we're known as the stupids. >> the white house chief of staff says the president was quote fully informed about his central pledge on the campaign trail. not fully informed, that is. meanwhile, the senate's top

republican says he's happy to consider an immigration deal quote as soon as we figure out what trump actually supports. and by the way, one day away from a government shutdown. good morning, it's thursday, january 18th. with us we have white house reporter for the "associated press," jonathan lemiere. incoming national political reporter for nbc news, heidi pryzbila and moderator of washington week on pbs. robert costa. >> i love what the "new york times" has done today. >> the opinion section. instead of the usual voices that are, i think the opinion writers are critical of trump. they have decided that they were going to open up their page to letters to the editor from trump supporters one year in. >> and i think it's pretty critical.

for those of us who think that donald trump has destroyed or is trying to destroy constitutional norms and has lied day in and day out. there's a reason why people support him. and it's good for us -- >> to try to continue -- >> get out of our bubble. there's always liberals are always say, i don't care what they think. well then you don't care whether you win in 2020 or not. you need to figure out why people are supporting this guy. in spite of the horrific behavior that he exhibits. i'll just read you one from jason peck. in holtzville, new york. i voted against hillary clinton more than i voted for donald trump. that said, president trump has exceeded my wildest expectations, yes he's embarrassing and picks unnecessary fights. but he also pushed tax reform through, he has largely defeated isis in iraq. has named a number of solid conservative judges, his

prioritized american citizens over illegal immigrants, has gotten us out of several bad international agreements, removed wasteful regulations. his reined in a number of out of control agencies and so on and so on. i love george w. bush but he failed on policy over and over again. if it takes uting up with mr. trump's brash ways to see things get done. that's a deal i'm willing to accept. i'm not sure he would have accomplished what he has so far without being an unrelenting public bully. and that's jason peck. then there's one from steven senabria from oakdale, california. who basically says the same thing. and it ends by saying the entrenched interests in washington which have done nothing but glad-hand one another and both political parties are angry and afraid. who knew all it would take to make progress was vision, chutzpah and some testosterone. >> chutzpah.

>> that's how we say it in southern baptist churches. willie, it reminds me of when you, worked on vanderbilt. as many people in new york city in 2004 thought george w. bush was hitler, as think donald trump is hitler now. they just did. and anybody that says that they didn't has a very short memory. it was extraordinary. i have always talked about, you know all the images of george w. bush as hitler, being sold on the streets of the upper west side. you went down to vandy, you said well wait a second. some of my friends really like this guy and they're not evil. so -- yeah? >> the biggest shock before donald trump becoming president, the day after the election was the morning after the 2004 election. i'm talking about in new york city. people waking up and going wait, i thought we all agreed, we didn't like george w. bush, and then he was re-elected. i thought we didn't like donald trump. it's good to get out, donald

trump received 63 million votes, fewer than did hillary clinton. but 63 million votes is nothing to thumb your nose at. and heidi, this dovetails with a we're talking about here in the "new york times" with what we just saw about the wall. which is to say a lot of people i talk to who voted for trump say, i don't know if we ever thought the wall was going to be made. it was a metaphor that he was going to give us the country back and keep out people we didn't want here and focus on our country and not the outside world. there are a lot of people hanging in with him. >> i will say when it comes to the wall and when it comes to these images, that we're all looking at about these families being torn apart, there is a segment, and not a small segment of the republican base that looks at that same occurrence and says you know what, cross-border crossings on the southern border are down. we are sending a message to some of these countries, and some of the people who might want to make that dangerous trek to not

do so. and so it is good to maybe get out of our bubble and see that where we are seeing these heartbreaking images. there are people on the other side, who believe that this is a good thing. that donald trump is cracking down on our immigration laws and in terms of the base, itself, the tax cuts you know, they're starting to tick up a little bit. in the survey monkey poll. they're still not super popular but here's what democrats are worried about, willie. i've spoken about them within the past week or two. with obamacare, the democrats really did not have a fat walleted funder behind them to go out and sell those. president obama didn't really do a lot to go out and sell it. he wanted to move on to his next agenda items. this white house and this republican congress are going to make that a priority. and they have a lot of deep-pocketed donors behind them to try to go out and sell those tax cuts now.

>> mika, we from time to time are asked by administrations, or by campaign, hey, how are we doing. a lot of people in the media are. and we always give our advice, remember to barack obama, the advice was you have to do more theater. but to those close to barack obama. you have to do more theater, you can't just assume everybody is going to figure things out. >> i like how you said it on the air. >> i said it on the air and then i said it to them off the air. was insistent about it. saying he's just, you know, he's assuming way too much of the american people. donald trump, heidi talks about the border. right? holy cow, she's right. under donald trump's america, there were fewer border crossings -- but wait, hold on. that was going on with barack obama. for years. but barack obama didn't want to admit it. because, he had, barack obama had a really tough immigration policy.

but he didn't want it go out and provoke hispanic americans. but that was the case. the economy doing well. barack obama, saying i have the greatest economy, ever, i, me, my, my, but donald trump is pushing that. there is also just the fact that we're going to be upset, jonathan, by when the president talks about the media as being enemies of the people. i'm, i'm going to get really upset. and i'm going to know that this is what tyrants do when they're trying to move towards being autocrats. people out there, you know, where i've lived my whole life, are kind of like, eh, i'm taking my kid to little league. they're busy working. it sends chills up my spine when the president questions the legitimacy of federal judges. that rule against him. when he tries to denigrate the

american court system, which has been what basically separates our constitutional republic from every other constitutional republic in the world, that independence? that frightens me. a guy who is working his ass off or a woman who is trying to make enough money to send their kids to college? they don't have time to be frightened by that they want to know, they've got two kids, they're having trouble making their mortgage payment. are they going to be able to send their kid to college? >> this president is going to be the showman, he's going to be the salesman. he's going to make the pitches of what he's accomplished. we know that every night on twitter. we see it every day, he's going to be outside pittsburgh talking about the benefits of the tax cut. he is someone that, you're right. that his supporters, you know, they believe he is a disruptor. they believe he is some sort of connection with them. you're seeing that in the "times" letters today in the op-ed page. the idea that these are folks

with day-to-day concerns, this is what the president believes, that he is speaking to them. they think while things are bad for me, the government has worked against me. the media doesn't understand me. he has put his finger on that and believes there's some sort of connection. so yes, there is absolutely moments where it feels like he is challenging really important american institutions. the fake news awards were last night. yet another example where the president has -- >> i believe we were ripped off, mika. we didn't get an award. we deserve one. >> to that point, bob costa, i think isn't that why any other presidency, the porn star story would be front-page headlines. which it has been. but it hasn't resonated. there's this porn star that apparently trump lawyers paid off, what, a year after he married melania. do you know what i'm even talking about? it's not interesting for some reason it's not even passing the smell test as news.

what's going on? and is it part of what jonathan is talking about? where he sort of desensitized the entire ecosystem. with unbelievable behavior and accusations of the news being fake. >> well on that particular point, more reporting needs to be done. the president's conduct for any president is always something that's under scrutiny. >> it doesn't seem to be here. >> bob, it would have destroyed any other president. >> i'm going to see if one trump supporter in this group here even -- >> in a week. and this does go to evangelicals. who were so judgmental about bill clinton and his behavior. and you heard it from preachers day in and day out. how can we live in a country that blah blah blah. evangelical leaders. you know, jerry falwell. i'm sure jerry falwell junior at the time. now these evangelical leaders and so many of the people that

worship at evangelical churches are totally fine with it. >> when you look at the republican party we have to stop being surprised that president trump broke it as a candidate, now he owns it. and he continues to show how he owns it. in the way he deals with congress and different officials within the republican party. you don't see any kind of exodus in the gop among all these different controversies as they pop up. they continue to trot along, trying to achieve their different agenda items. that shows the president's conduct, his behavior, his statements are not driving this republican party apart that could have a real cost for them in the mid-term elections if some of these suburban voters say issues of temperament and judgment do matter. it's not just the policy gains being made by the republicans. >> there's going to be a hell of a hangover for the conservative movement, for the republican party and for evangelical leaders. after they finish selling their soul to this guy. but mika, you know, remember

last night, i said, hey, you know, i just kind of getting this feeling, i said to her, i said if history is any guide, democrats are going to win huge in 2018. and donald trump is going to play off of that and get re-elected in 2020. because he's sitting at 37, 38, 39%. he really should be at 25%. given, given everything, given his behavior. given his racist outbursts. but he's not. and his numbers at 37, 38, 39%, not really any lower than they were six months, three months before he got, two months before he got elected president of the united states. >> no, and it's something that everybody needs to watch. i think we, we in the bubble of the bigger cities on the east coast, may see something big happening. but just like the conversation we just had, to start off the

show -- i don't think people are, are taking a measure so closely. they're looking at their lives. gallup is taking a measure of how the global community views america under president trump and the numbers are significant. germany has replaced the united states as the top-rated global power in the world. the u.s. is now on nearly even footing with china. and barely more popular than russia. and obama's last year in office for example, the u.s. led germany by seven points, china by 17 points and russia by 22. median approval of american leadership across 134 countries, and areas, stands at a new low, willie, of 30%. >> and willie, this matters because the next terror attack, we need allies. the next terror attack, we need people stepping in the gap and defending us, supporting us. they're not going to do that. >> that number is a reflection of donald trump's rhetoric. but also of his policy of withdrawing from tpp,

threatening to withdraw from nafta, his constant criticism of u.n., nato, international organizations and his america-first explicit policy that we're going to focus on us, not you. i'm not surprised to see those numbers. but there's a cost to that as you say. we're going to have to lean on those countries in a time of crisis. we don't know what that crisis is. but there will be one, you can guarantee in the next three years. >> willie, you remember this well because we went through it day in, day out. donald trump's approval rating, even through the general election campaign, was at 34, 35, 36%, 37%. so for those of us, looking at even at 36, 37, 38% thinking he's going to get his. no, that's about where he was before. >> his approval rating isn't much different than it was on inauguration day. his disapproval numbers are a little higher. i think it's all reflected in the letters you just read which is trump voters are able to ignore what they view as

rhetoric. as him talking trash or instigating or inflaming. and focus on the fact that they believe the economy is doing better. that isis has been beaten up. all the things that judge gorsuch is on the supreme court. those are solid, concrete things they can point to as achievements from president trump in their eyes. they believe everything else is just noise. >> think the challenge every day for us is what we were, we when we did -- the katie couric podcast. understanding that the media is in many ways, biased towards this guy. because it is hard to separate out concerns, about his autocratic ways. it's kind of like i said to some republican contributors. i said how much are you willing to sacrifice of this country's constitutional norms and our democratic values for a 5% cut in the corporate gains tax? and i just don't know -- i do

know. the dow being at 26,000 is not worth having a president who is racist. >> i'm not sure everyone feels that way. >> i know they don't. that is the challenge. how do you say hey, the gdp went up .2% over the third quarter. and then in other news, donald trump hanging out with porn stars and making racist comments that insult the entire -- you know continent of africa? it's a balance and it's a real challenge for, i think for news outlets. i think getting more direct news. >> tomorrow they're going to be hearing from trump vote who are are now disillusioned. it was a great conversation, a lot of news to cover, still ahead on "morning joe" -- which part of the president's interview with "reuters" should we tackle first? where he blasted a bipartisan

plan on immigration after pledging to sign whatever lawmakers came up with? where he promised to spend five days a week on the campaign trail? or where he suggested he could solve the north korea crisis because he aced the cognitive test during his physical exam. >> this cognitive test showed him a picture of a lion, a rhino and a giraffe, and a pig. >> he got the pig right. >> he did. >> that's really good. so -- yeah, he's, he's -- the smartest president ever. because he can do what a 5-year-old can do. that's great. >> we're going to talk with a report another sat down with the president in the oval office. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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>> let's go now, we are going actually to -- where's the tweet desk in copenhagen? >> there's a delay. >> i don't know whether most people in copenhagen are white or not. however, our correspondent, willie geist -- >> he is white. >> willie, can you tell us, look out the window. are most of the people in copenhagen white? >> starting to look that way. yes. >> we'll have to pass that along to scandinavian nations. they're mainly white. willie. so anyway, tell us at the tweet desk in copenhagen -- >> tell us what you have on the tweet desk? >> we're just talking about the wall -- >> you can't look at me. >> we're talking about the wall, there's a delay, the wall we're talking about -- the president of the united states is now talking and writing about the wall. tweeted this -- the wall is the wall. it has never changed. or evolved from the first day i

conceived of it, parts will of necessity see-through. never intended to be built in areas where there are natural protections, such as mountains, wastelands and water. >> so willie geist -- >> the see-through wall. >> the president of the united states deciding to use the twitter. >> is that aimed at john kelly. we can break this wall down. >> now he's back. >> what is that, is that john kelly? is he whacking john kelly? is that john kelly covering up for saying he doesn't know what he's talking about. >> i don't think he liked his chief of staff saying he had been uninformed during issues of immigration during the campaign and it was unrealistic to think that there would be one wall across the entire southern border and unrealistic to think that mexico would pay for it which were two central promises of the trump campaign. >> heidi, this is not a surprise.

the general went on capitol hill when he was testifying, trying to become secretary of homeland security and said the same thing, that a wall would not work. >> and even some of the biggest hardliners in congress and many congressional hearings predating the trump presidency said the exact same thing. that there are natural barriers. and that in terms of securing the border, you would want increased surveillance, increased patrols. but not necessarily a physical wall. but it was a good campaign talking point. when somebody ticked them off like you saw on the clip earlier, he would say the wall just got ten feet taller. i think this probably is a suting slap-back to general kelly for calling him uninformed. it comes at the same time that other people in his party are saying we don't know how to negotiate with this president, we don't know what his bottom

line is. >> we're back, let's go back to copenhagen. willie geist at the twitter desk. willie -- more tweets from america's president? >> yes, the tweet continues, wall will be paid for directly or indirectly, or through longer-term reimbursement by mexico. which has a ridiculous $71 billion trade surplus with the u.s. the $20 billion wall is peanuts compared to what mexico makes from the u.s. nafta is a bad joke. so sneaking in a hit at nafta as well. >> so mexico where more people are leaving to go back to than ever before. >> inside the "reuters" interview with jeff mason coming up next and what an interview it was. here's the story of green mountain coffee roasters sumatra reserve told in the time it takes to brew your cup.

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joining us now is white house correspondent for "reuters" -- that's what you do off the air. >> i'm throwing in willie's. >> willie is in copenhagen, where are you right now, jeff? >> i'm in washington, d.c. >> very good. we were guessing on the graphic. we got that one right. >> a lot of highlights from your interview with the president. exclusive interview in the oval office. what stands out to you? >> you know, that's a great

question. there were so many things that stood out. it was about a 50-minute interview with me and a bunch of my "reuters" white house colleagues. we talked about everything from policy on immigration, to north korea, to his exercise habits, the day after his doctor had talked about -- >> what are his exercise habits? >> well he doesn't have many. >> i'm curious, jeff, i -- i would like to have that much girth and weigh about 30 pounds less than i should weigh. so. >> you weigh the same as the president, according to your doctor. >> 6'3", in the mid 230's. >> that's weird. >> that's strange. i don't get it. but anyway, go ahead. what's his exercise habit? >> he talked about the fact that he likes to play golf. but he conceded that he doesn't usually walk on the golf course, he usually takes a golf cart. he could probably get more exercise that way. he said i walk at the white house, i'll run over to the

other building on the white house complex. i get more exercise than people realize. so -- i don't think he's going to embrace his doctor's advice that he start using the white house gym. he did, however, say he's open to changing his diet. reducing portion sizes. that was one smaller part of the interview. he also talked about his, his comments about the immigration deal. he didn't, he wouldn't -- say specifically what he said in that controversial meeting, but he made very clear he didn't like the deal that was presented by dick durbin and graham. >> i remember him telling us why he doesn't exercise. it was -- >> we can't repeat it on the air. >> willie -- >> that's part of your interview, that maybe is part of a reemerging narrative. he just tweeted about it a couple of minutes ago. that was the threat to terminate nafta. you guys asked him about it. he said we're renegotiating nafta now, we'll see what happens. i may terminate nafta. we haven't heard him talk much

about nafta in a while. is that something he's focused on again? >> he's gone back and forth on nafta. something that the canadians and mexicans are very interested in. what direction he's thinking, where he's going. one of the things he said yesterday in addition to i may terminate nafta. he said many people would be unhappy if i did. but they don't realize if we did terminate nafta, it would lead to baa better deal. some of those people who don't want him to do that, may have been in the room with us yesterday. gary cohen, his top economic adviser was there, and he's been getting encouragement from economic advisers, not to mention lawmakers and trade groups, not to do that. >> first of all, let me say that the conspiracy over the president's weight. i enjoyed the girtherism term. i think that's pretty good. but the president is bound for pittsburgh area today. the white house, it's not being

designated a campaign rally. he is going to appear with a local candidate there for a house seat. tell us a little bit about what he had to say in his interview with you yesterday, about his plans for campaigning ahead of the mid-term elections? >> he said he intends to spend four to five days a week helping republicans win. whether that means going out on the trail that much, i'm a little skeptical that that's what he meant. but i think he, he is going to be out on the trail for sure. probably less during the republican primary season. more after the primaries are done. but he plans to be out there. he says we need more republicans. he certainly feels that way for his own policy agenda. and he's going to be either making calls, doing fundraising or going out and doing these big rallies. >> bob costa, can he help? [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] >> okay. >> he lost his mic. >> he still has -- a base,

right? >> yup. all right. thank you, jeff, greatly appreciate it. great talking to you. >> thank you, jeff. >> i got to read this dana milbank column. i'm glad somebody wrote about this. because you know the white house doctor and this isn't girtherism -- this isn't girtherism -- >> he was president obama's doctor, wasn't he? >> and the obama staffers spoke well about his ability. >> i'll read you some of the dana milbank column. the doctor has taken on the, the lifeform of other lifeforms inside the trump white house. he sounded like a sycophant. >> the doctor was so effusive in extolling the totally amazing, superbly stupendous and extremely awesome health of the president, that the doctor sounded almost trumpian.

quote the president's overall health is excellent. excellent. hands down, there's no question that he's in the excellent range. i put out the statement that the president's health is excellent. because his overall health is excellent. overall he has very good health, excellent health. and how excellent is the excellent excellency's health? incredible cardiac fitness. he has incredible genes, he has incredibly good genes, it's just the way god made him. after sanjay gupta pointed out that he was borderline obese, the doctor replied -- that trump's heart is in the excellent category. and not just his heart. the doctor praised his energy and stamp in a. he has more energy than just about anybody and trump is very sharp, and very, very articulate. very, very sharp. very intact. absolutely no cognitive or mental issues whatsoever. the president did exceedingly well. but they said well he is borderline obese. to which the doctor said if he

had would have eaten better over the past 20 years he might live to be 200. >> god, what did he say about obama? >> the president's cholesterol is a little high. >> was it as effusive? i think obama worked out every day. >> i'm sure this guy is a great guy, great physician, blah blah blah. he shouldn't have sounded so trumpian first of all. second of all -- >> did he write it? >> he works in a white house where just about everybody who makes public statements lie. so if he's shocked and then somebody is going eh, okay. well the white house spokesman said we weren't going to have a cognitive exam. made a point to say -- and suddenly we have a cognitive exam? and he can tell what lions and rhinos and giraffes and little monkeys are? great, okay. that's fine. but it was -- i don't know. it was -- it was trumpian. to say the least. and two-thirds -- if that guy

weighs 239 pounds, then -- there are a lot of nfl players that are doing the wrong thing. >> it does seem that everyone who steps in the white house sort of catches the disease of over-the-top rhetoric. this is, he is a real doctor. he is not that bornstein guy, the crazy guy from the upper east side who trump sent the limo to pick up the medical report. but he did say something where he was talking about how much sleep president trump gets, he said he gets four or five hours a sleep a not. he went on to say, i think that's probably why he's been so successful. which i thought, odd that a doctor was in commenting on his accomplishments as a president. >> do you know what else is also odd, willie? you won't find a reputable doctor in america that will tell you getting four hours of sleep a night is good for you. they will all say the same thing, get four hours of sleep a night, over time your cognitive abilities start to degenerate. not a single respectable doctor

in america would say what he said. so are we questioning his integrity? no, we're not. i'm just questioning his motivations. does, maybe he likes eating at the white house mess. i don't know. but his own words are not the words of a physician. they're the words of a political hack. >> it was certainly unprecedented to get in some ways that much level of detail. he was up at the podium for nearly an hour, far mother than the briefings we would get say after president obama's physicals. i think there are moments where because he was up there for so long it almost felt like he was just sort of filibustering, and maybe that led to some of the excess. but it's certainly right, they released a lot of the things that he said the president himself asked for the cognitive test to be part of the exam, as part of the push-back of the stories. >> i don't know if he didn't do as well on the cognitive test, whether we would have even heard about it. >> that's a question for the doctor, i guess. but it was striking that he was up there speaking so candidly

with so much flourish about the president's health. >> so effusively. >> this guy is obviously obese. he's overweight. he doesn't exercise, he eats fast food. >> no fat-shaming. just speaking reality. >> he's 71 years old. he gets four hours of sleep a night. he has one of the highest stress jobs in the world. nor guy to come out and whitewash all that and say that he's in great shape and -- he could exercise a little bit -- oh, he could do -- but if he ate better, he could live to be 200 years old what extraordinary genes, et cetera, et cetera. come on, that's just shameful. coming up, axeos is reporting that steve bannon made one con conspicuous slip-up in

an interview. >> when i'm speaking in front of 15,000, 20,000 people, i'm using a lot of motion, i guess in it's own way it's a pretty healthy act and i enjoy doing it. a lot of times the rooms are very hot, like saunas and i guess that's a form of exercise. ( ♪ ) ♪ one is the only number ♪ that you'll ever need ♪ staying ahead isn't about waiting for a chance.

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is the co-founder of axios, mike allen. before we get into it, i have to return a favor to you, happy birthday to axios. your first birthday today, right? >> one year of smart brevity, thank you very much. >> smart brevity, congratulations, mike. let's talk about what you're calling bannon's botch. his alleged slip-up. admitted he had a conversation with reince priebus among others. fill us in a little bit. >> when steve bannon was in, i

thought you were about to play a clip. when steve bannon went up to the hill yesterday, he had very specific instructions from the white house, and that was, you can't talk about anything that happened in the transition or in the west wing, because we're going to invoke an executive privilege on that can you talk about the campaign, but not anything that happened when you were on the job. and he mostly stuck to that. but in the first 90 minutes of his testimony, as you said, he did slip up. he said that he had talked to reince priebus, the chief of staff. sean spicer, the press secretary. about the meeting in trump tower, june 2016. such a focus of the russia conversations, because that's what investigators say, if there's something that suggests the campaign was willing to collude with russia, that meeting was a telltale sign. >> when steve bannon sits across from bob mueller and has to give

his testimony, will the white house also try to exert some form of executive privilege or whatever you want to call it, that they believe covers steve bannon's testimony? or will he be free to let it rip? >> willie, we're told that steve bannon plans to tell mueller everything. and jonathan swan reported that even though he's going to hold back on congress, his legal team says that they have no restrictions from the white house when it comes to mueller. and the theory there is that mueller was appointed by the justice department, so it's within the executive branch. so you're not waiving any executive privilege by conveying the information within the executive branch. and so now bannon becomes trump's most dangerous man. almost everybody else who is being interviewed by mueller wants to maintain ties to trump. almost everyone there is trying to keep their access. wants to stay in the family. but of course, steve bannon, as

you're viewers know, has burned every bridge he has. is perfectly willing to say everything. and as you guys know, he saw a lot, heard a lot and knows a lot. and now we know he's willing to say a lot. >> and bob costa, i'm sure you were hearing the same thing i was hearing, even before news started to break in the "times" and other papers. that jared kushner had ties with certain russian interests that he didn't report. steve bannon was going around bragging that kushner was going to be taken down by russia. so obviously he had inside information that even the media didn't have for some time. so does jared kushner have a reason to be concerned with steve bannon's testimony? >> there were comments to that effect inside the wolff book. you do have to put aside the drama at the house intelligence committee, about steve bannon. there is this question legally, constitutionally, about what members or former members of the executive branch can tell

members of congress in this type of proceeding. mike is right, once steve bannon sits down with robert mueller's team inside of the executive branch, part of the justice department, whether it's the topic of jared kushner or the topic of president trump, there's not going to be that kind of legal or constitutional question that prevents him from being candid. as you know, joe, the rivalry, the acrimony between bannon and kushner has been longstanding. >> let me ask you, bob, then we'll go back to mike. bob, what's it looking like on the government shutdown. i know the house is trying to cobble something together. but the senate still seems pretty far away. do you think we're going to see a government shutdown tomorrow? >> they're going to rush to try to cobble something together. you saw the republicans put an extension to the children's health insurance program as part of a package. trying to tempt democrats. democrats shrug that off. they say if you want to deal with us, deal with us on immigration, let's find a d.r.e.a.m.ers' fix. they got to figure out can they get the votes from the republican hawks though want the increase in defense spending.

can they get some democrats, whether it's on c.h.i.p. or d.r.e.a.m.ers, to put together the 218 votes they need. it's a challenge not only for president trump, it's a test for speaker ryan. can he figure this out in a bipartisan way. >> mike allen, it's jonathan lemere. let me put a similar question to you, what are you hearing about the negotiations in terms of is there anything that seems remotely close on daca? there's been such a breakdown in talks it seems in the last couple of days. is that still going to be essential to a deal here? will democrats cave on that? do you think the government is going to shut down tomorrow in. >> we saw something very fascinating online. we saw democrats, including pod save america starting to press democrats here, to vote against this. to go ahead and tank this. so there's going to be a great war to define who shut down this is. republicans know they will mostly be blamed in the country, and that's why they've been work sog hard to avoid it. but the chances, went up yesterday, 24 hours ago i would

have said they're going to figure it out. now that looks much less likely as you're reporting also suggests. >> mika, if pod save america is saying, that they need to shut it down, the -- what do they sa willie? as goes pod, so goes -- france, is it? >> copenhagen. >> copenhagen. >> as goes pod -- >> very diverse. >> as goes pod, so goes copenhagen. >> mike allen, thank you. we'll be reading axios, geopolitical predictions of 2018. a year of global rupture. happy one-year birthday -- >> i love the pod guys. >> smart brevity. still ahead on "morning joe," the chairman of the house freedom caucus, mark meadows, plus democratic congressman eric swalwell and senator ed markey. "morning joe" is coming right back. (dog) mmm.

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bob, republicans obviously very concerned about any election that's being held in 2018. there's a big one coming up in a solidly red part of pennsylvania drawing the president over there today. >> pay attention to this district. connor lamb, the democrat, he may not win, but he's a marine veteran, a former assistant u.s. attorney, 33 years old, the kind of person democrats are trying to recruit in these red districts across the country. if he can do pretty well in

march it may show democrats have a possible wave on the horizon. >> heidi, are we going to see a shutdown? >> well, i'll share a vignette with you yesterday that may tell where you say we are. there was a democratic caucus meeting yesterday in the senate, not a single democrat got up and acknowledged they would vote for this. to your point, yes, democrats are feeling emboldened because this would be probably the first time when you have one party controlling the white house and both chambers of congress and you have a shutdown, that tells you who is most likely to be blamed in this and so the democrats, i think, are feeling like they can really hold the line here, especially when you have members of the republican congress like lindsey graham already saying that they're not going to vote for it, either. >> bob costa, heidi przybyla, thank you so much both for your reporting this morning. coming up, searching for leadership on immigration reform. >> i think my positions are going to be what the people in this room come up with.

i am very much reliept ant on t people in this room. >> i'm looking for something that president trump supports and he's not yet indicated what measure he's willing to sign. >> that's extraordinary that the -- first of all, the president says i'm going to trust the people in this room, then, of course, he spews vulgarities when people in the room come back and have a deal and now the republican leader is saying we have no idea what the president wants with. >> well, who would? while america stares down a possible government shutdown, republicans in control of washington seem to be staring at one another. we'll talk to the chairman of the conservative house freedom caucus, mark meadows. "morning joe" is coming right back. [ click, keyboard clacking ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ click, keyboard clacking ]

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>> the big story is still trump's physical. trump's doctor says he got a perfect score on the montreal cognitive assessment. we got our hands on trump's

answers and they went a little easy with the grading. first question is, what is similar about a grape and an orange? trump said "they're both types of soda." [ laughter ] it's correct but -- >> yeah. >> next they ask what is 30 minus 7? trump said "my approval rating." >> welcome back. top of the hour, welcome back to "morning joe," it's thursday, january 18. we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire back with us. national political correspondent for nbc news and msnbc steve kornacki and "new york times" washington bureau chief elizabeth bumiller. good to have you on board this hour. lawmakers in washington must pass a measure to fund the government before tomorrow's deadline. will they do it? house republican leadership aides tell nbc news they're confident they have the votes to pass the short-term government funding bill that would keep the federal government running until

february 16 but the prospects in the senate are much less optimistic, making a shutdown a very real possibility. republican senator lindsey graham announced yesterday he would not support another stopgap spending measures telling reporters enough is enough, that a fourth short-term extension since october is too many. with graham against the measure and fellow republican senator john mccain absent because he's in treatment, cancer treatment, senate republicans need the support of 11 democrats to pass it. in a interview with reuters yesterday president trump said a government shutdown could happen and insisted democrats would be to blame? okay. >> well, i -- >> maybe, i guess, in some ways. is that a strategy. >> jonathan, republicans own washington, d.c. donald trump has said we need a good government shutdown. there's no way democrats are going to be blamed for it. >> so it's a stretch.

>> that's a hard sell for the president to make. you heard sarah sanders defend that yesterday, defend trump's comment saying it would be good, but the white house the clearly sending signals, particularly in the last 48 to 72 hours that they want no part of a shutdown and they want a deal done and i'm sure the president will attempt to blame democrats as his is wont for anything that goes wrong under his administration but that will be hard sell for american voters who see that republicans control both chambers of congress and the white house. >> elizabeth, republicans have a monopoly in washington, d.c. and enough votes to pass any spending measure they want to pass so are you skeptical democrats would take the blame for this and also what is the likelihood we'll see the government shutdown tomorrow? >> better than it was 24 hours ago. there's obviously votes in the house to pass this, the senate is the real problem. the issue here is there's a lot

of senate democrats running for president, they are leaning to the left of the party right now, cory booker, kamala harris, elizabeth warren, they're not inclined to support this measure and they're fed up and they're getting pressure in their home states about supporting the d.r.e.a.m.ers. so those are the politics but i agree with you. it's very hard to see how the country blames the democrats when the republicans totally control the white house and both houses of congress and this is what trump campaigned against, that he was going to make washington work again. now more of this and look what happened. barely a year into his new administration. >> but sometimes, steve corps nag -- kornacki, sometimes he says things that he thinks are reality and his base agrees. what are the numbers? does it look likely? >> if you look at how people

have been assessing political blame so far and how voters have been assessing political responsibility so far, it's been bad news for the trump party and good news for the democratic party. when you don't have the white house, you don't have the house, you don't have the senate you become the de facto vehicle for objection about protest. there's a lot people can object to. you look at the two politically climatic shutdowns in the last generation. the dynamic was the same. in '95 you had a democratic white house, the clinton white house and a republican congress and the politics of that shutdown ended up working out to bill clinton's favor, helped him win reelection in '96. if 2013, you had the obama white house and republican congress. the politics in the moment, the republican party took a very big hit in 2013 in terms of their favorable/unfavorable rating in 2013. you could play that out a year later and say the republicans had a good midterm in 2014. >> but as i have to remind people who say that was good for the tea party, no it was horrible for the tea party

because after the 2013 shutdown, all of the big republican money givers said enough of the tea party guys, we're going with mainstream republican candidates and you look at the people who won in 2014, one tea party challenger after another was beaten in the primary. >> and it's hard to look at -- if you look at where the republican party stood during the shutdown and where they stood on election day 2014, it's hard to say they were in a better position in 2014 because of the shutdown. it was more incidental to the political success i think they had a year later. joining us from capitol hill, a man who has a voice in this, chairman of the house freedom caucus, republican congressman mark meadows of north carolina. congressman, always good to see you. your criticism of the proposed cr here is one i think most americans would probably sympathize with which is that we can't have the this system where every couple of month wes pass a short term bill and that gets us through a couple months and we get to the next one. what would you like to see or what has to be in this bill for you to vote for it? >> you know, we were negotiating late last night and you're right, the american people are

fed up with just one short-term answer after another. i'm fed up with it. i believe that as we start to look at this, the most critical thing is at what point are we going to go ahead and address the critical issues? we've got to continue to fund our military men and women and not hold them hostage. the additional aspect of that is that we can't grow the size of the government more than we're growing the size of people's paycheck back home. right now what's being contemplated is a 13% increase in the growth of government and that's unacceptable. a lot of your analysis was accurate this morning. i can tell you the president, i was on the phone with him last night, he does not want a shutdown, he made that very clear. we still don't the votes in the house. we made good progress last night, hopefully we'll get there today but it's critically

important we make some decisions and start running the government like you would your household or a business. long-term planning makes for good solutions. >> will there be something at the end of the day if you avoid a shutdown by midnight, there l there be something inside of it that takes care of the d.r.e.a.m.ers which is a sticking point for many democrats, that they need to be taken care of or else they won't vote for it. >> well, the interesting thing is i don't see that being part of this but i do think we're making good progress. i spoke to the president last night, he wants a solution, he wants to make sure that we not only address this issue of the daca recipients but in addition to that, add a merit-based immigration system and so i spoke to leader mccarthy very late last night, who's been involved in those negotiations, we're making good progress. there won't be an answer today but i do believe both conservatives like myself and some that are perhaps moderates

and democrats can find a way to address this and make sure we have a secure border and address this issue. >> so if there is, congressman, some provision to secure the border and get things you want on immigration, you believe that daca recipients will be protected at the end of the day in this deal? >> well, at the end of the day i do believe daca recipients will be protected provided we have those other three parameters that the president has laid out on border security and chain migration and visa lottery. there is a real growing consensus that we can get there and i know i've talked to more democrats and moderate republicans in the last 72 hours than i have in the last 72 days. it's critically important we get it across the finish line. >> joit's jonathan lemire. the president reiterated yesterday if he believes there is a government shutdown democrats will be to blame. you have voice add similar opinion in the past.

republicans control the white house, both houses of congress. make the case why democrats will take the blame in the mind of the american voters? >> well, you guys, this is not your first rodeo. you understand how this place works and it comes down to what are nine democrat senators going do in the senate or what is mitch mcconnell going to do in the senate? if it's about a 50-vote threshold in the senate on a shutdown and mitch mcconnell wants to go with a simple majority to keep it open i would applaud that but if not we need nine democrats to come across and if they're willing to shut it down over an immigration issue and hold our military hostage, that's an argument that i'd be glad to take back home and show the difference there. we're making good progress, let's don't undermine it for those daca recipients at the 11th hour in trying to make a political win. >> so joe scarborough here, congressman. let me just show you and your

friends in the freedom caucus. republicans always get blamed for government shutdowns. >> you know that, you were here. >> there could be one republican sitting in a cloak room and everybody else could be democrats and that one republican would get blamed so it's the way of the world. i want to ask you a question on my pet peeve, as i think you know, when we're talking about budget matters. you are going to have to decide and the freedom caucus is going to have to decide whether to race t raise the debt ceiling. when that time comes, is there a chance that somebody will bring forward a proposal that will save social security, save medicare and save millennials from our crushing national debt? >> i don't see that happening, joe, you're right. you've been a champion of that particular aspect, as have i. i do believe we'll end up raising the debt ceiling without

significant reforms. i spoke to secretary mnuchin a few days ago on this very issue. it's chrisally important we get this going because we can face deficits that we have never faced historically for a sustained period of time if we don't get that in control and it is about saving medicare and social security and those things that people count on and so we're working national guard the freedom caucus, we have three or four different proposals out there. i don't see that being part of this particular debt ceiling negotiation that will happen within the next 60 days or so. >> all right. congressman mark meadows, thank you very much. >> good to be with you. >> good to have you. as for the fight to save daca, in an interview with reuters, trump described the senate compromise on immigration led by republican lindsey graham and democrat dick durbin as horrible for security. and very, very weak on legal chain migration adding "it's the

opposite of what i campaigned for." trump told reuters that senator graham "meant well." "but i said well, how many republicans agree with this?" yesterday four additional republican senators got behind the deal -- mike rounds of south carolina, lisa murkowski of alaska, lamar alexander of tennessee and susan collins of maine. but senate majority leader mitch mcconnell said he would only bring a vote up for something he knows that the white house actually supports. >> i'm looking for something that president trump supports and he's not yet indicated what measure he's willing to sign. as soon as we figure out what he is for then i would be convinced that we are not just spinning our wheels going to this issue on the floor. >> elizabeth, what a remarkable thing for a republican majority leader to say about a republican president one day before the government shuts down -- "we

don't know what our own president wants." >> that's not surprising given the president has been all over the map on this one. you saw in the roosevelt room the other day he seemed to be very receptive to a deal on dhaka. seemed very open to immigration. you see what happened two days later when he made the comments about how he didn't want certain immigrants from certain countries here and what he said about them. it's hard to know -- he's also said he will sign anything put in front of him so it's hard to know where the president is. people who cover the white house who cover this closely say they think personally the president is where he was in the roosevelt room when he was receptive to a deal but he gets pulled back by the tough on immigration people in the white house, steve miller who tell him you can't do this, senator cotton. it's hard to know. where he is is where he was in the roosevelt room but he sees

that as bad for the base. >> and that would be his chief of staff, john kelly as well. also from what we're hearing very tough hard line negotiator on immigration. >> although he said he was optimistic about a deal on daca so i don't think kelly -- yes, i agree with you, he's tough on immigration, he's not quite as tough as steve miller or tom cotton. >> so steve corps knackty today the president is going to pennsylvania. it's going to be fascinating, a solid red district that republicans any other year would win going away but this year it's quite a matchup. >> look at the special elections for the house that we've had since president trump became president and there's been with one exception a consistent pattern, that's double digit movement. so you had this district in south carolina last year around rock hill, the fifth district of south carolina, trump won it by 19 points in the election, they had a special election last

year, it was three points for the republican. republicans win but that's 16 points of movement. we saw 20 in kansas, you see this pattern. so you take this district in the southwest corner of pennsylvania. when we talk about trump country this is a good microcosm of it. this is a district trump carried by close to 20 points in the 2016 election so if you see the kind of movement that we saw in south carolina, the kind of mutual we saw in kansas, the kind of movement we saw in montana, if that replicates itself, off close race. elizabeth bumiller, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thanks. still ahead on "morning joe," steve bannon could be headed back to the hill to testify in the house intelligence committee's russia investigation today. the question is whether he'll answer their questions. we'll talk to a member of that committee, democratic congressman eric swalwell, "morning joe" is coming right back. ( ♪ ) ♪ one is the only number

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>> did the white house tell him to invoke executive privilege? >> no. no. steve has had very, very little contact with the white house since he left. i know steve a little bit not very well, he was -- he left the white house and has never returned to the white house and with the exception of a few phone calls here and there very, very little contact with the white house. and i certainly have never spoke to him since he left. >> is the white house afraid of what steve bannon might say? >> not that i'm aware of. i think we've been pretty clear what our position is in regards to this entire process, that there was absolutely no collusion but in terms of what he might say i can't answer that, i can't speculate on that, i can simply tell you that we're following the procedure, whether it was in this committee or any other committee down the road, this is a process that's

important to protect and that's important. >> that's the white house, sarah sanders talking about steve bannon's testimony before the house intel committee. a top democrat says the white house effectively issued a gag order for steve bannon on capitol hill but administration officials insist bannon was not instructed to invoke special privilege. on tuesday, bannon refused to talk about his time inside the white house and during the transition. the a.p. reports during the testimony bannon's attorney was on the phone with the white house counsel's office relaying questions and asking what bannon could tell congress. according to a white house official and a second person familiar with the interview. meanwhile, corey lewandowski cited his own reasons for not answering the committee's questions. according to nbc news he said he simply was not prepared to provide certain answers and offered to return at a later date. joining us now, a member of the house permanent select committee on intelligence and the house judiciary committee,

democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. congressman, good to see you. >> good morning. >> your congressman adam schiff expressed great frustration with steve bannon's and corey lewandowski's unwillingness to answer questions. how frustrating was it for you? >> quite frustrating. it would be at least be lawful for mr. bannon to say he was invoking executive privilege but that isn't what occurred. he said he was told he couldn't talk which is unlawful for the white house to not stand on any legal authority but to just muzzle a witness and to keep that witness from talking to us and then the very next day lewandowski comes in and refuses to answer any questions, says he talked to the president the night before but wouldn't tell us neigh occ-- anything that occurred after corey lewandowski left the campaign and sitting ten paces across from the room where corey lewandowski was being interviewed was an executive branch official who worked on the campaign, worked on the transition and currently works at the white house and

that individual said he was under no restrictions, that he could talk about anything. so it looks like they're selectively choosing who can tell us what. >> so general kelly said the white house had no communication with steve bannon, didn't instruct him to do anything with his testimony one way or the other but now we have this report about steve bannon's attorney relaying questions aqaba to the white house and asking whether or not bannon could answer. did you see that happening? >> i did. i saw bannon's attorney step out multiple times to talk to the white house and report back to us that the white house was telling mr. bannon that he could not talk about the transition, he could not talk about his time at the white house. he could not even talk about his time after he left the white house. also keep in mind, bannon's attorney also represents don mcgahn, white house counsel, which i think is a monumental conflict of interest and i suggest these guys are working together to advance a narrative to protect the president. >> so when john kelly says the

white house at no time spoke to steve bannon or his counsel, that simply isn't true based on what you saw in that room the other day? >> well, that would have been pretty bold for that lawyer to come into that room and state to congress -- you can't lie to congress -- that he was talking to the white house when he was indeed not. >> so the white house is not telling the truth there? >> that lawyer represented he was in contact with the white house and our staff was in contact with the majority staff with the white house so we were all on the same page as far as what the white house's position was. >> congressman, jonathan lemire has a question for you. jonathan? >> congressman, that real-time consultation that the a.p. reported about and you are discussing with bannon, there are other members of the white house who are going to be appearing before the committee in the days ahead, hope hicks included. is this something that you and members on both sides of the isle aisle will try to prevent?

is this hindering your ability to get to the truth? >> well, my republican colleagues want to be consistent. if any witness comes in and asserts a privilege that doesn't exist like we did with mr. bannon, that's what we did with mr. bannon. yesterday, though, mr. lewandowski was asserting white house privileges or was saying he talked to the president and now he wasn't willing to talk to us, we should have subpoenaed him yesterday, we didn't. we have additional executive branch witnesses coming in and if they're going to selectively decide what they can tell us and what they won't, we should have the will to subpoena them otherwise we'll have a very incomplete investigation. >> congressman, this is steve kornacki. you have your issues with this committee, you were talking about steve bannon potentially cooperating with the special counsel, with robert mueller, with that investigation. that raises a question to me that if you have this mueller investigation, you have all the power that mueller has to investigate this into whatever area he sees fit what does your committee position to expose or

reveal or discover that the special counsel with all of that power isn't? >> our job is to tell the american people how russia was able to pull this off, understand what the u.s. government response was so that we can prestlent from happening again. mueller can find all the crimes in the world but that doesn't fix vulnerabilities that we have in our election systems, our ability for the federal government to assist the states or duty to report laws that probably need to go into place that would require individuals if they're contacted by foreign nationals to report that to the fbi so there's a lot we can do from what we've learned that bob mueller doesn't have the authority do and -- which he's not being asked to do. >> congressman, before i let grow, a two-parter for you. will the government be open come midnight tomorrow night? the second part of that, will it include some protection for d.r.e.a.m.ers? >> i hope yes to both. certainly keeping the government open while federal workers toil away for our safety and the troops who serve abroad, that has to be a priority but i won't

support any short-term extension that doesn't do the hard work of having parity in the defense and domestic spending that protects the d.r.e.a.m.ers who are here and also takes care of children's health care. we can do all of that. we're called to do big things and it's time to stop living incrementally. >> we'll. see congressman eric swalwell of the house intel committee, congressman of california. thanks so much as always, we appreciate it. coming up, tom brokaw had advice for a pair of republican senators who couldn't quite recall what the president said during last week's immigration meeting. he said "costco has a good deal on hearing aids. just saying." tom joins us when "morning joe" comes right back. ( ♪ )

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>> even conviction politicians accept the need for compromise from time to time. this is how the american republic was built and we remain a nation defined by our diversity, a coat of many colors and a healthy respect for those with whom we may agree to disagree. >> that was elizabeth dole whose husband, former senate majority leader bob dole, was honored on

capitol hill yesterday with a congressional gold medal of honor, congress's highest civilian honor. with us, tom brokaw. tom, i think for me looking back at bob dole's career, other than, of course, his honorable service to this country and his sacrifice to this country is the fact that bob dole could be the toughest, sharpest partisan when he needed to be and would just cut to the quick but when it was -- >> i was on the other end of that. >> you were on the other end of it. but when it was time to sit down and make the deal in the best interest of america, he put it aside and did that. >> he was very clever. i remember he came to california in the height of the nixon era and he was going in to talk to the california republicans and i saw the text in advance and it was "take no prisoners." but outside was the press. he was charming and funny and everything and i finally said "wait a minute, senator, this is how you're playing to us, you're not going to let us go in and hear the red meat speech on the

other side." and he looked at me and said "you caught me." it was always honesty about him as well. then i think he evolved over the years. i've talked to him a lot. i wrote about him in "the greatest generation" and i think he has mellowed and he's heartbroken by what's happened to the idea that you can't have bipartisan approaches. he worked with tom daschle. i remember when they were in the minority, the press would meet during the state of the union and bob dole would bring in the republicans and say "what do we need to hear from you? how can we have a good exchange about what's going on here?" so he grew. and if you really want to know about bob dole, go to the university of kansas, go to the dole institute, look at the photographs of him as a freshman. he was an adonis, he was an astonishingly great athlete, he was a track, basketball and football player. then, of course, he's gravely wounded and he has to live with that for the rest of his life but he's done in the the most heroic way and i now sometimes

say "bob, i don't want to take a call for you. you want a big favor." at the moment it's about the eisenhower memorial, they want to get it done and get on the mall. >> still fighting, still working, doing all he can. >> never stops. never. >> so let's talk about white house chief of staff john kelly. he tried to get the administration -- he tried to clarify things. >> tried to clarify their position yesterday, maybe softening up a bit in some areas but seemed to take a whack at donald trump, not really knowing the issues. what do you know about john kelly who we hear behind the scenes is about as tough on immigration policy as donald trump himself? >> he's a marine. the marines know if you go into combat you have to get everybody on the same team. you can't go into combat with divisions going on. you have to have a concentrated idea about the objectives. i thought the meeting with the

hispanic caucus was one of the most important ones because they found a way to talk to each other. america's tired of tribal warfare. that's what we've got going on now. that meeting last week, the disputed meeting about what the president said or didn't say blew up an important part of what we need to get done about daca, wherever you stand on it, we have to find a way we can have common ground and not have everybody go to the respective corners and only come out punching at each other. >> right. >> i think if somebody were to do something dramatic, if the black caucus, for example, which i thought made a terrible error. one of the members said after that meeting "donald trump could lead the ku klux klan." that's not what it's about. ku klux klan murdered people, they were in white sheets, terrible reputation. so instead of doing that, put together a small group in the black caucus or any of the other caucuses and say to the white house "we'd like to come down and have a conversation with the president in a private meeting so he understands what we're thinking and we have a better

idea about what he's thinking." that's what the country wants to hear. they want to hear and see them able to talk to each other. >> i think they're -- well, here's john kelly after the meeting on fox news. as. >> as we talked about the president and how he wants to take away the daca issue i told him -- you know, there's been an evolutionary process this president has gone to and i pointed out the the members that they all say things during the course of campaigns that may or may not be fully informed. he has evolved in the way he's looked at things. campaign to governing are two different things and this president has been very flexible in terms of what is in the realm of the possible. >> but then this morning president trump tweeted about the wall "parts will be of necessity. see through. it was never intended to be built in areas where there was

natural protection such as mountains, waste lands, tough rivers or water. the wall will be paid for directly or indirectly or through longer term reimbursement by mexico which has a ridiculous $71 billion trade surplus with the u.s. the $20 billion wall is peanuts compared to what mexico makes from the u.s. nafta is a bad joke. >> in all that time as response to what general kelly said. he's responding to his own chief of staff on twitter. >> i was in touch with some people in the west who were big trump supporters. except for the tweeting. they say shut up, let's get the job done. we still like your agenda but when you do that thing, you run contrary to everything we believe we need to get done here. general kelly doesn't go into combat as a marine with everybody going in nine different directions and everybody gets a vote on it. he wants to put the group together so donald trump can't

be controlled i can't understand why as a guy who read the country pretty well in terms of what it wanted in the campaign that he keeps doing this because the base is getting smaller and smaller and smaller frankly. on the other hand, democrats, if you listen to them, they think all they have to do is show up to get the congressional majority back in. they better have a plan. and the plan is not to go hard left, by the way, the way they'll be left by elizabeth warren or bernie sanders. they have to have a scheme that addresses the old democratic middle. people who are the working class democrats and unless they get to the that they can get beat. >> i wonder you were saying the idea of folks being tired of tribalism. when i see that response from president trump what i'm sensing is among other things a politician who is worried about his base in the sense that hey, am i going to look like i'm

selling out my base because i won this nomination? and when you talk about democrats on capitol hill reaching out for a private meeting with trump i wonder if the thing that holds them back is the fear of their base. will it look like they're selling out the resistance? the idea that folks want to -- i would like to believe most people want to overcome tribalism but do you look at our politics over the last five years, ten years and wonder, maybe we don't? >> the fact is we don't know until we dry. that's the whole thing. the current system is not working the way it is. not working for the democrats, not working for donald trump. my idea was that you throw the long ball. you play vikings football, frankly, and you say maybe we can get a touchdown out of this if we went down there and did our version of seventh heaven which was the play that won the game for the vikings the other day. by doing something really daring and saying mr. president, we want to have a conversation. we here in this together. if he turns them down or abuses them in the meeting or whatever

but i think the country longs for some kind of reasoned conversation going on on the political spectrum because washington is playing a different game than they are out there. you can go into any community in america and they find a way to make the board of education work or the city council work or the chamber of commerce work by finding ways to get together and everywhere i go they say the same thing, left, right more to the middle, can't they talk to each other? >> nbc's tom brokaw, thank you so much. great to have you on. up next, it seems the term "fake news" is becoming popular among the world's strongmen. the leaders of syria, the philippines and venezuela have been quoted using the president's signature phrase. we'll discuss what happens when those kinds of world leaders take cues from donald trump. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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>> it's a testament to the condition of our democracy that our own president uses words infamously spoken by josef stalin to describe his enemies. it bears noting that so fraught with malice was the phrase "enemy of the people" that even nikita kruschev forbade its use telling the soviet communist party that the phrase had been introduced by stalin for the purpose of "annihilating such individuals" who disagreed with the supreme leader. what matters is the daily disassembling of our democratic institutions. we are a mature democracy. it's past time to stop excusing or ignoring or worse endorsing these attacks on the truth. for if we compromise the truth for the sake of our politics, we are lost. >> senator jeff flake is looking worldwide at the impact that

donald trump's rhetoric is having on free speech and the free press. joining us now, harvard university teachers who wrote a book called "how democracies die." they wrote "this is how we tend to think of democracies dying, at the hands of men with guns, but there's another way to break a democracy, it's less dramatic but equally destructive. democracies may die not at the hands of generals but of elected leaders, presidents or prime ministers who subvert the very process that brought them to power. the tragic paradox of the electoral route to authoritarianism is that democracy's assassins use the very institutions of democracy gradually, subtly, and even legally to kill it." wow. >> so steven, looking back over the first year of the trump administration the president has

shown tendencies of an autocrat. you can objectively find examples of that. >> you can see echoes of everything that i just read. >> but how are america's institutions fighting back? how are we doing? what would you grade america fighting this? >> i would say mixed grade. american democracies survived the first year of trump. trump has not destroyed american democracy because we have strong institutions and in particular i think the media gets a good grade. the courts and our rule of law get a good grade. i would give a much lower grade to congress and the republican party specifically. congress is supposed to be a check on executive power and the ruling -- the governing party, the republican party, is not showing an inclination to engage in the oversight. >> we've heard this an awful lot and i've said before that our founders put in place safeguards

against a tyrannical leader. what they never allowed their imaginations to be darkened by was a compliant congress in the face of a tyrannical president or one who had autocratic tendencies. but daniel, i love what jeff flake said yesterday, i agree with what jeff flake said, i love what john mccain has been saying. truth to power. but there have been many people like james fallows of the "atlantic" that said "great speech but we only need two of you guys in the senate to stop donald trump's most extreme measures." and yet we can't find two republican votes in the senate whenever the president oversteps his bounds. >> so the speech was a great speech but at some level it's just words and really what needs to happen is the republican party needs to step up to play its constitutional role. one of the things we've learned studying other countries around the world is that if one of the major parties in a political

system doesn't play its constitutional role then democracies are in danger. >> you two wrote a piece a month or so after the election of donald trump that i think probably sparked this book where you talked about whether or not donald trump would, in fact, be a threat to democracy and one of the conclusions of your piece was that those threats, the possibility that he could be a threat to democracy were nput i place long before donald trump was elected. what is it? that the presidency has become too strong and powerful? >> well, most importantly there are a set of norms, of unwritten rules of american democracy that were quite strong throughout the 20th century that we see eroding over the last couple decades. one is what we call a norm of mutual toleration where each party accepts the other party as legitimate, as patriotic, as loving america, not being subversive or criminal. and the other is what we call forbearance, or using restraint in the exercise of power, not using the letter of the law to undermine the spirit of the law.

and those two norms were pretty strong throughout the 20th century. what helped us -- what helped our checks and balances work when we had presidents who did threaten to to overstep their bounds, fdr, nixon. we worry the norms are much weaker today. >> what do we do post trump? if what have we learned from the first year? have we learned that perhaps an attorney general has to get two-thirds of the vote of the senate? or two-thirds of the vote of the senate and the house? but what have we learned? >> that's the real danger that we face. there's a kind of escalating spiral where each side views the other side as overstepping its bounds and so each side then in turn wants to feel -- doesn't want the play the sucker. the fear going forward, for instance, is if the democrats regain the majority in the senate and when the supreme court nominee comes up, the democrats may now do to trump

nomination exactly what the r republicans did to the obama nomination is block it. >> i don't think we've learned very much. i don't think we've learned how to correct the problem. we're focused on trump. >> did you write this because you feel our democracy is in danger as you assess this and look at countries around the world, is our democracy in danger? >> yes, it is in danger we have confidence in our institutions that there's no democracy. that should give us more confidence. there are certainly worrying signs. fascism is not around the corner. certainly deep ailments we need to address. >> steve. >> one of the counter arguments would go something like this, rhetorically your point is taken about donald trump about saying his opponent should be sent to jail. that kind of thing. we haven't seen this breaks norms. raises all sorts of alarm bells. in terms of actual actions as president, you're sort of all

bark, no bite. and if you compare to democracy decay in turkey over the last decade with erdogan, you have a politician who is disciplined, rigorous, has been pursuing a program that has eroded and undermined the democracy there. whereas you have a president here who main main. >> erdogan was elected in 2002. if you went back to first year in aufoffice, you would say all year no action. it took years to erode. one of the things we saw looking at other cases is the vast majority of leaders whose rhetoric is authoritarian before they come to office and who used threatening language to take action in practice. now in the united states it's much much more difficult for trump. our institutions are media, are much stronger than turkey. this is not turkey. >> i've got to say. i remember back around 2004,

2005 whenever erdogan was moving towards power, a friend of mine from turkey said watch this guy. he's going to be dangerous. he's going to get in there. go after the generals. go after the press. and i sat there thinking, yeah, whatever. and sure enough, step by step by step, but it takes awhile. >> if you had taken a snapshot after one year, you would say he hasn't done much. >> that's what is dangerous about it. it seeps into the ether. you don't see it coming. >> suddenly you have -- i hate to pick on tom cotton, but suddenly you have senators who are aping the behavior of the president of the united states who are lying about a fact that has been admitted to by the president of the united states, a racist comment. >> by conservative thought leaders, by fox news, by the white house. >> and yet he still is going out and lying just like donald trump. >> for donald trump. >> for donald trump. >> another affect of just words.

donald trump is beginning to erode the credibility of our core democratic institutions. donald trump is repeated the line over and over again for a year now that our elections are fraudulent. right. that our press is conspireing to bring him down. press is deliberately lying. the free elections and independent press are core institution of our democracy and a large number of our citizens believed donald trump. now medical leave if you look at surveys, don't believe our elections are free. >> that is how it's seeping in. >> don't believe our press is acting in a legitimate way. >> the point about congress. i just wanted to make a point. congress is supposed to serve as a guard dog. and it's become a lap dog. >> they've taken the oath. >> that's really what we need to be concerned about. it's driven in fact by this polarization of politics in american politics. long run process that we're witnessing the results of. when we see a president trump, he's part a cause of worry and

also a symptom of deeper underlying problems. thanks so much. >> thanks for having you us. still ahead, mitch mcconnell says he still doesn't know what the president wants on immigration reform. the latest on the scramble to avoid a government shutdown. also talk to one of the rioters reporters who took part in wide ranging interview with the president. plus, first they marched, now they're running. we'll talk about the surge of female candidates in the age of trump. "morning joe" is coming right back. no longer can we come poipo tax on truth. no longer can we turn a blind eye or deaf year on assaults to institutions and mr. president, an more than president who cannot take criticism and must constantly deflect and distort and distract, who must find someone else to blame, is

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[ click, keyboard clacking ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ click, keyboard clacking ] ♪ good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours. i'm a builder. >> they all say things during the course of campaigns that may

or may not be fully informed. >> building is 95 stories tall. >> he is changed the way he looks at a number of things. >> the wall just got ten feet higher. >> even the wall, once we briefed him. >> mexico can't pay for the wall. >> one of the groups is saying you can't get mexico to pay. how foolish. >> we have ideas on how things like visa fees. >> of course they'll pay. you have the right guy negotiating. they'll pay. >> it's possible we could get the revenue from mexico, but not directly from their government. >> we're not going to be the stupids anymore. we're the stupids. we're known at the stupids. >> the white house chief of staff says president trump was, quote, not fully informed about his central pledge on the campaign trail. >> it happens. >> meanwhile the senate's top republicans said he's happy to consider an immigration deal, quote, as soon as we figure out

what trump actually supports. by the way. >> he doesn't know what he supports. >> no, he doesn't. by the way, one day away from a government shutdown. >> good morning, everyone, it's thursday, january 18. we have white house reporter for the associated press. national political reporter for nbc news. and reporter for "the washington post" and moderator of washington week robert costa. >> i love the "new york times" has done today. >> yes, in the opinion section. >> instead of the usual voices that are i think in all the opinion writers. letters to the editor. it's my b

you think donald trump has destroyed or is trying to destroy constitutional norms. and has lied day in and day out. there is a reason why people support him. it's good for us. to continue to get out of the bubble. i'll just move on. from jason, in hotelsville new york. i voted for hillary clinton more than i voted for president trump. president trump has exceeded wildest expectations. yes he's embarrassing. defeated isis and iraq and named a solid number of conservative judges prioritize american citizens over illegal

immigrants. control agencies and so on and so on. i love george w. bush. failed on policy over and over again. takes putting up with mr. trump's brash ways to see things get done, that is a deal i'm willing to accept. to be honest, i'm not sure he would have accomplished what he has so far without being an unrelenting public bully. and that's jason peck. and ends by saying lastly the entrenched interest in washington which have done nothing, but glad handle one another and both political parties are angry and afraid. who knew all it would take to make progress was vision, shuts paw and test tos erroneousoster

and anybody that says they didn't have a very short memory because it was extraordinary you aye always talked about all the images of george w. bush as hitler being sold on the upper west side. you went down to vandy, he said wait a second. some of my friends really like this guy. they're not evil. the biggest shock before donald trump becoming president was the morning after the 2004 election. i'm talking about in new york city. people waking up and going, wait, i thought we all agreed we didn't like bush and he was re-elected. it's good to get out.

this kind of dovetails what we're talking about in the "new york times" with what we saw about the wall. a lot of people i talk to who voted for trump say, yeah, i don't know if we ever thought the wall was going to be made, but it was kind of a metaphor he was going to give us the country back and keep out people we didn't want here and focus on our country and not outside world. there are a lot of people despite everything we've talked about for a year now hanging in with him. >> i will say when it comes to the wall and when it comes to these images that we're all looking at about these families being torn apparent. there's a segment and small segment of the republican base that looks at that same occurrence and says, you know what, cross border crossings on the southern border are down. we are sending a message to some of these countries and some of the people who might want to make that dangerous trek to not do so. and so it is good to maybe get out of our bubble and see that

where we are seeing these heart breaking images, there are people on the other side who believe that this is a good thing. that donald trump is cracking down on our immigration laws. and then in terms of the base, itself, tax cuts, they're starting to tick up a little bit in the survey monkey poll, they're not super polar, but here's what democrats are worried about. i've spoken with them within the past week or two, whereas with obamacare, selling obamacare, the democrats really did not have a fat walleted funder to go out and fund those. president obama didn't go out and sell it. he wanted to move on to next agenda items. this white house and republican congress are going to make that a priority. they have a lot of deep pocketed donors behind them to go out and try to sell the tax cuts now. >> you know, mika, we from time to time are asked by

administrations or by campaign, hey, how are we doing a lot of people in the media are, and, you know, we always give advice. to barack obama the advice was you have to do more theater to those close to barack obama. >> you said that on the air. >> and then i said it to them off the air. and was insuperintendaistent ab he's assuming way too much of the american people. donald trump, heidi talks about the border. holy you. she's right. under donald trump's america there are fewer border crossings. hold on. that was going on when barack obama was president for years. barack obama didn't want to admit it because he -- barack obama had a really tough immigration policy, but he didn't want to go out and provoke hispanic americans, but

that was the case. he didn't go out and say i have the greatest economy ever. me me my. donald trump is

this president is going to be the showman. he's going to be the salesman. he's going to make the pitches of what he accomplished. we see it everyday. he's going to be in pittsburg outside today talking about the benefits of the tax cut. he is someone that you're right. that his supporters, you know, they believe he is some sort of connection with them. you're seeing it in the times letters today. the idea that these are folks who have day-to-day concerns and with the president blooefsz that he is speaking to them.

they think while things are bad for me, the government has worked against me. moments it feels like he's challenging really important american institutions. fake news awards last night. yet another champl. >> we didn't get an award. >> to that point. >> the porn star story, would be front page headlines, which it has been. there's this porn star that apparently trump lawyers paid off a year after he married melania. do you know what i'm even talking about. it's not interesting. for some reason, it's not even passing the smell test as news. what's going on and is it part of what jonathan is talking

about, where we sort of desensitized the entire eco-system with unbelievable behavior and accusations of the news being fake. >> on that particular point, more reporting needs to be done. president's conduct for any president is always under scrutiny. >> doesn't seem to be here. >> >> evangelicals who were so judgment about bill clinton and his behavior. you heard it from preachers day in and day out. how can we live in a country. evangelical leaders, i'm sure at the time. now these leaders and so many of the people that worship an evangelical churches are totally fine with it.

when you look at the republican party, we have to stop being surprised that he owns it. he continues to show how he owns it in the way he deals with congress and officials within the republican party. you don't see any kind of exodus in the gop among all of these different controversies as they pop up. just continue to trot along. trying to achieve their different agenda items and that shows that president's conduct, his behavior, his statements are not driving this republican party apart. that could have a real cost for them in the midterm elections. if some suburban voters say issues of temperament, judgment, do matter. not just the policy gains being made by the republicans. still ahead on "morning joe," from ripping up nafta to hitting the campaign trail, president trump had a lot to say about a lot of things, but how much of it lined up with his previous promises? of the official white house position. we'll talk to the reporter who sat down with the president next

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willie is in copen haggen. where where are you right now, jeff. >> i'm in washington, d.c. >> we got that one right. >> bingo. >> a lot of your highlights from your interview with the president. exclusive interview in the oval office. what stands out to you? >> that was a great question. so many things stood out. about a 50 minute interview with me and a bunch of my rioters white house colleagues. we talked about everything from policy on immigration to north korea to his exercise habits the

day after his doctor had talked about his physical exercise habits. >> what are his exercise habits. >> he doesn't have many. >> i'm just curious. i would like to have that much girth and weigh about 30 pounds less than i weigh. >> you weigh the same as the president according to the doctor. >> yes, 63 and i'm in the mid 23 230s and same. that is really strange. i don't get it. >> what's his exercise habit. >> he talked about the fact he likes to play golf. conceded he doesn't usually walk on the golf course. usually takes a golf cart. could get more exercise that way. i walk at the white house. i'll run over to another building on the white house complex. i get more exercise than people realize. i don't think he's going to embrace his doctors advice that he start using that white house gem. he did however say he's open to changing his diet. reducing portion sizes. that was just one smaller part

of the interview. he also talked about his comments about the immigration deal. he didn't -- he wouldn't say specifically what he said in that controversial meeting, but he made very clear he didn't like the deal that was presented by them. >> reemerging narrative. threat to terminate nafta. renegotiating nafta now. see what happens. i may terminate nafta. haven't heard him talk much about nafta in a while now. is that something he's focused on again. >> he's gone back askand forth nafta. that's something that the canadians and mexicans are interested in. one of the things he said yesterday in addition to i may terminate nafta, he said many people would be unhappy if i

did. they don't realize that if we did terminate nafta. that would lead to a better deal. kind of a window into his thinking, but he made clear again while saying i may terminate this deal that a lot of people don't want him to do that. some of those people may have been in the room with us yesterday. gary cohen top economic adviser was there. >> hey, jonathan here. first of all let me say the conspiracy of the president's weight. i enjoy the girtherism terms. that's pretty good. bound for pittsburg area today. not being designated a campaign rally. appear with a local candidate for a house seat. tell us what he had to say in interview with you yesterday about his plans for campaigning ahead of the midterm elections. >> yes we talked about that. he said he intend to spend 4-5 days a week helping republicans

win. now, whether that means going out on the trail that much, i'm a little skeptical that's what he meant. i think he is going to be out on the trail for sure. probably less during the republican primary season. more after the primaries are done. he plans to be out there. he said we need more republicans. feels that way for policy agenda. >> thank you. up next, axios says steve bannon was tight lipped with house investigators, except for one significant slipup. mike allen explains that on "morning joe."

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joining us now, cofounder of axios. i have to say, happy birthday to you. one year. >> one year of smart brevity. thank you so much. congratulations, mike. >> let's talk about what you're calling bannon's botch. alleged slipup. admitted he had conversation with reince priebus among others. fill us in. >> when steve bannon went up to the hill, he had very specific instructions from the white

house and that was you can't talk about anything that happened in the transition or in the west wing because we're going to invoke executive privilege on that. you can talk about the campaign. not anything that happened when you were on the job. and he mostly stuck to that. in the first 90 minutes of his testimony, as you said, he did slip up. he said that he had talked to reince priebus, the chief of staff. sean spicer, the press secretary. mark, the legal spokesman, about that meeting in trump tower, june 2016. such a focus on the russia conversations because that's what investigators say if there's something the that suggests they were willing to collude, that meeting was a tall tell sign. >> as he sits across from bob mueller and has to give testimony, will the white house also try to exert some sorm of privilege that they believe

covers steve bannon's testimony or will he be free to let it rip. >> we're told that steve bannon plans to tell mueller everything. and jonathan swan, reported that even though he's going to hold back on congress, his legal team says that they have no restrictions from the white house when it comes to mueller, and the theory is mueller was appointed by the justice department so it's within the executive branch. you're not waiving any executive privilege by conveying the information within the executive branch. and so now, bannon becomes trump's most dangerous man. almost everybody else who is been interviewed by mueller wants to maintain ties to trump. almost everyone there is trying to keep their excess. wants to stay in the family. of course, steve bannon as your viewers know has burned every bridge he has. is perfectly willing to say everything and as you guys know,

he saw a lot, heard a lot, and knows a lot. now we know he's willing to say a lot. >> he's so great. >> certainly is. >> we're heading for a showdown. and the democrats are not going to blink. so will washington really go dark on friday night? the massachusetts democrat joins the conversation, next on "morning joe." ( ♪ ) ♪ one is the only number

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short-term extension since october is just too many. with graham against the measure and fellow republican senator john mccain still away for cancer treatment, senate republicans need the support of 11 democrats to pass it. lets bring in senator of massachusetts. thanks for being with us senator. >> thank you, good morning. >> all eyes are on the senate. does it look like we're going to have a shutdown. what are you seeing. >> it's largely in the hands of the republicans. they control the house. they control the senate. they control the presidency. we're really not on the room right now in that broad way play hamilton, the best song is in the room. we don't know where the room is. they're handling this the same way they handled the health care bill last year, the tax bill. they want to try to run the government all by themselves. and the democrats are saying, we want this to be bipartisan and thus far they have not been

willing to do it. it's going to be up to president trump. if he wants the government to stay open, he's going to have to sit down and negotiate a deal over the next two days. >> president trump says it will be the democrats fault if there's a shutdown. >> well, the president is missing the point that he's not on the outside anymore. the republicans aren't on the outside as people who can just criticize barack obama. he is now the president of the united states. the republicans control the house and the senate. the republican paradox is that they don't believe in government, but they have to run for government in order to make sure that the government doesn't work. now that they control every single part of the government, they're still pretending they don't have a responsibility to make the government work. to keep it open. we're in our fifth month of this fiscal year and we still don't have a resolution of daca, of children's health, of community

health, of opioid funding, of insuring the disaster relief to puerto rico. it's five months and they keep wanting to pass a cr, continuing resolution. in the republican control, cr really means can't resolve. just can't decide amongst themselves and they're going to pay a big political price unless they come to the table to try to resolve the issues the way the constitution intended them to be resolved. >> senator, it's will lie geist. i have a long line of questions. daca, presidential election for daca must be a part of that bargain. do you believe without daca, without a protection for those res recipients there can be a cr

signed. >> no, i don't. i think the time has come. this brinks mmanship that the republicans had been engaging in has to end. we're not going to blink. the democrats want a showdown. we want to resolve these issues. the american people want to resolve these issues. there's a poll out this morning that says that over 90% of americans want a path to citizenship to be created for these dreamers. so all of the country is saying finally to washington, do your job as bill belichick will say to the patriots this coming sunday. just get it done. finish it. you can't go the whole year and deal with central issues. the democrats are ready to say to the republicans, do you job. sit down with the democrats and put all these issues on the table and finish it and have

donald trump ultimately sign a bill, but the problem is of course that mitch mcconnell himself is saying, that he doesn't know exactly where donald trump is on these daca issues, these dreamer issues, and that makes it very difficult because when the leader of a body doesn't know what he wants, then the rest of the party is left there without a capacity to be able to cut a deal with the democrats. >> so to be clear before we let you go, without daca protections, you will not vote for continuing resolution tomorrow. >> i am absolutely not voting for any bill that does not have protection for the dreamers. it is time for us to morally discharge our responsibility to these young people. they are innocent. collateral damage to political paralysis which is gripping washington. we cannot allow them to be held hostage any longer. i will not vote for a continuing resolution that does not protect these young people.

>> senator ed marky, thank you very much. thanks for being on. ahead this morning is chief of staff john kelly at risk of having his steve bannon moment. we'll explain that, next on "morning joe." and sometimes, i don't eat the way i should. so, i drink boost. boost high protein nutritional drink has 15 grams of protein to help maintain muscle and 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d. boost high protein be up for it

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so i'm trying to picture this. the president is still in residence on executive time. i'm sure john kelly is at work. they're in the same building. i get the president is yelling at him on twitter. so the president has tweeted

again. minutes ago he wrote, we need the wall for the safety and security of our country. we need the wall to help stop the massive inflow of drugs from mexico. now, rated the number one most dangerous country in the world. if there is no world, there is no deal. last night. white house chief of staff john kelly appeared on fox news discussing how the president may not have been fully informed on major policies during his campaign. >> he has evolved in the way he's looked at things. campaign to governing are two different things. this president has been very, very flexible in terms of what is within the realm of the possible. >> said changed his attitude on issues like the wall. prompting the president to tweet this morning this, the wall is the wall. it has never changed or evolved. hours earlier, a white house source close to the president told axios last night that kelly, is risking a steve bannon

moment. the source told reporter jonathan january last night kelly has finally ventured into steve bannon territory. when it comes to trying to create the perception that he's the great manipulator. saving the country from trumps ignorance. the difference is steve tried to develop that reputation in off-the-record conversations with reporters. kelly did it openly. on t on the country's most watched cable network. the subtle difference between humorous and arrogance. susan, good to have you. i was hopeful when john kelly got the job that maybe he could take the phone away. there is no one who can stop this president from doing what one could argue has been the most destructive part of his presidency, and that's tweeting. is there? i think that general kelly came to the job not thinking he could control the president's tweeting.

that he would try to pose discipline. making decision making smoother in the white house. from the start was realistic about the limits he could do. now in a dangerous place. this is not a place anybody wants to be with their boss and especially if your boss is donald trump and i just have to say one more thing. damage not only to his relationship with donald trump, but damage to his ability to go to the hill and be seen adds speaking for the president. met with democratic members of congress yesterday to talk about the wall he made the comment there that the president haed not been fully informed when he talked about the wall during the campaign. now those members of congress will be thinking the president immediately rebuked him. can we trust what general kelly has to say to us about where the white house stands. >> so jonathan, you covered the white house. this is an amazing. you know the horror film where they say the call is coming from inside the house. the tweet is coming from inside the house. he is tweeting at the guy downstairs.

>> john kelly said something out loud on fox news, there wasn't going be a physical wall over the full expanse of the border or that mexico was going to pay for it. his chief of staff says that out loud and this goes to the rule that donald trump likes you as long as you like him. as long as you're nice to him, he'll be nice to you back. the minute your own chief of staff says something that goes against the grain of that narrative, he comes at you hard. even if you're the man who is his rights hand. >> that's right. the president throughout made the wall the central issue of his campaign. hates any attempt that he feels like he's being undermined and thinks clearly a reaction to what john kelly said last night. feels like he's rebutting against the idea he's being manipulated. if not he's -- he's not having a steve bannon moment. he's having rex tillerson moment. publically undercut on twitter by the president. this sort of out in the open disagreement that is sort of unheard of among white houses. no question that there disagreements between the scenes

in any white house, but to see it spill out like this at 140 or 280 characters at a time is pretty remarkable. >> also feels like trump is trying to navigate and figure out what the politics of immigration for him are. because this is a candidate who found sort of a political opening to get to the presidency to get to the republican nomination, but going very hard line on immigration. field of 17 candidates. that's the issue more than any other. he used to distinguish himself into credibility with the base of the republican party. the most hard lying rhetoric we every heard from a nominee in the modern era. you have signals and indication from kelly. the nature of negotiating capitol hill and possibility of compromise. takes a step or sees administration take a step towards compromise and gets a little bit of flak or senses a little bit of flak from the base and trying to compensate for that. still trying to figure out how do you compromise and get something done in washington and

still be the guy you were on the campaign trail. >> what would be the motivation behind wanting to feed the base so fervently and so directly because 35 is not 65. 35 is 35 or 34. you know, depending on how it went. there's -- what's the problem with the math in his mind or what's the motivation behind feeding the base in the way that he does. >> such a great question because it's been one of the puzzles of the trump presidency starting almost a year ago or almost up at the one year anniversary of nogs inauguration. remember american carnage, he chose to speak to base. not the larger public. the president has never tried in a serious way to reach out to the people who did not vote for him. he tries -- even when he does things that seem headed in that direction, he ends upcoming back to talking to the people who were with him from the start. so that must be part of a political calculation although if you look ahead to a

re-election campaign, the only way you win with 36% of the vote is a three way contest. otherwise you're going to lose for re-election. that is a great question. one we've been asking now for a year. >> this white house schizophrenia that we're seeing this morning is part of the reason you had the republican majority leader, mitch mcconnell, coming out before cameras yesterday and saying we have to wait and see what president trump believes before we make our move on immigration. in other words, he says one thing one day and another thing the next. lindsey graham get together on a bill. say we're coming together on the white house. great. let's seen it. when he arrives, he meets a group of steven miller and other conservatives in the white house hard lined against it. they don't know where the president stands. therefore it's impossible to negotiate and deal with him. >> wasn't it remarkable yesterday senator mitch mcconnell. that was by the way, about as mad as identify seen senator mcconnell be in a public setting. that was like a deaf con one for senator mcconnell. and you think also about bob

dole being up there on the hill to receive the congressional metal of honor. when he was senate majority leader, he negotiated some tough deals that required reaching across party lines, things that were hard to get, but now we're in such a different world that i think it is very hard to calculate how the government manages to stay open starting on saturday. president trump will start if that happens, if there's a partial government shutdown, president trump will start second year in office with a government shutdown and republicans taking a brunt of the blame. >> susan, stay with us. up next, the so-called pink wave. women are jumping into political races in record numbers. what it means for the midterms and beyond, next on "morning joe." i'm looking for something that president trump supports, and he's not yet indicated what measure he's willing to sign. as soon as we figure out what he is for, then i would be convinced that we were not just

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it's been nearly one year since the women's march became the largest single protest. the new issue of "time" magazine takes a look at the women who aren't just marching but running for office. joining us now, the writer of that cover story, national correspondent for "time"

magazine, charlotte alter. charlotte writes, this, call it payback, call it a revolution, call it the pink wave inspired by marchers in their magenta hats. there is an unprecedented surge of first-time female candidates. in 2016, they were ordinary voters. in 2017, they became activists. now in 2018, these doctors and mothers and teachers and executives are jumping into the arena and bringing new energy to a democratic party sorely in need of fresh faces. sorely in need of fresh faces and real leaders. so how are we doing? there's a number of women that you think have a real prospect of winning ration ning races? >> absolutely. what we know is when women run, women win. the biggest obstacle to getting more women elected is we simply don't have enough women willing to step up and run. that's changing now. the women's march has led to a

pink wave of women who are not professional politicians, not political operatives but are throwing their hat into the ring. >> why are they doing it? is this a response to the trump era? >> you know, i think that trump drove women into the streets a year ago but i think what's causing -- what my reporting has suggested is that most of the women who are running say it's actually the health care bill and the gop attempts to repeal the aca and the subsequent hiding from constituents that have motivated. >> you have ten races to watch. i like virginia seven because of the back story you told us. >> yes, so dave bratt rode the tea party wave into office. and this, the anti-trump resistance, is compared and, you know, often to the tea party wave. there are often a lot of similarities. indivisible, which is the

biggest engine of the resistance, is specifically modeled off of the tea party. dave bratt said the women are up in my grill. about all these women confronting him about the affordable care act. the woman running in his district was one of five women running against him and now a couple have dropped out. >> our politics hasn't just been in need of more women for just this year, it's been all generations. what's been in the way of that? why haven't more women previously stepped up and run for office? what do they tell you as you spoke to them? >> most women i spoke to, i spoke to over 50 candidates and organizers and activists who are working on this and sort of new to this. it's that they don't feel -- they said they didn't feel qualified until now. but basically, this election or last year's election was a huge paradigm shift. because if you could have the most qualified woman ever to run for president, in fact, the only

woman, and she loses to a guy who has bragged on tape about grabbing pussy, maybe those qualifications aren't important. what a lot of women said to me is, you know, regarding trump and regarding their specific members of congress, is like, hey, i could do a better job than that guy. >> susan, the piece does a nice job of outlining not just women running for office, but also women organizing, women trying to set up political organizations, trying to raise money and so on. do you think that's going to be effective? we're seeing there's so much energy on the democratic side. at least in terms of the rnc and dnc, far more of the money remains with the republicans. do you think this is an effort that can help with that disparity? >> money is only one aspect. as you know. of whether you're going to win in politics. energy and enthusiasm is the number one attribute you need. the numbers we've seen, it's not

just an increase in the numbers we're talking about who are running for office and running campaigns, it's an explosion. it's twice as many women running for governor as we've ever seen before. three times as many women running for house seats than we've seen before. these are extraordinary numbers. i think -- i'd be interested in what charlotte thinks, this reflects a broader cultural movement that we've seen explode in the past year that affects, you know, not only women running for office but also the me too movement. >> absolutely. i mean, yes, it's, it's fully informed by that. almost every woman i talked to said this is just -- it's not like they've stepped up and decided to run in a vacuum. i mean, they were at the women's march. they were organizing town halls for their representatives. they were, you know, just having these discussions about me too with their friends and their neighbors and their colleagues. this is all part of a -- of a movement. she's absolutely right.

the numbers are extraordinary. and actually one of the things i found to be most interesting in my reporting was that these new groups that everyone's hearing about, indivisible, swing left, sister district, flipable. those groups are created and fuelled by women activists. those are not -- you know, so they're helping people get elected but they're not just helping women get elected. >> it's amazing. the new issue of "time" magazine is the avengers. first they march. now they're running. charlotte, thank you very much. before we close up, the president has tweeted again. >> he just tweeted, i'm not in copenhagen, but the tweet is, a government shutdown will be devastating to our military, something the dems care very little about. >> he wants to blame the dems a lot. do you think they'll be a shutdown? >> i still -- we've had so many moments in the last few years where we've walked up to it and gotten the countdown clocks out and it's been averted. i could see it happening but i still say something will happen to prevent it.

>> you heard ed markey say that he will not vote for it that doesn't include protections for daca. i don't know how you get that. >> what do you think? >> i'm thinking there will be one. i feel like the president can kind of shift the blame. i'm worried about that. susan page, what's your gut? >> i think there's no trust. that enables you to get to a deal. i think the odds favor a shutdown. >> and republicans need 11 democrats in the senate, is that right, to keep the government open? i mean, i just don't see how that happens. i would hate to be those 11 democrats that helped donald trump scrap daca. >> there's not much of a political incentive for democrats to help republicans with anything. this is almost a test. if there's anything you're going to help, keep the government open. the momentum is certainly this is the closest we've come. my prediction will be a last. minute deal to avoid it temporarily but we're close. >> i kind of think there's going to be a last-minute deal.

>> okay, we shall see. >> what about you? >> joe. >> you've been through this. >> yeah. >> yeah, but not with donald trump. >> it's so unpredictable. >> that's true. >> listen, i think the republicans have to be desperate. i just don't know how you line up with what they're doing in the house over with the senate so probably short-term shutdown. >> that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> hello, i am chris jansing, in for stephanie ruhle. a shutdown this morning looming large. but the blame game over daca could kill any chance of a deal. not to mention the president's tweets. just the past 15 minutes. >> it makes no sense for democrats to try and bring us to a shutdown. >> it will fall on the majority leader's shoulders and the president's shoulders. >> this morning, the president is taking shots at his own chief of staff over what he said about the