thanks for watching. we'll be back at 6:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. fly, eagles, fly! i had to say it. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. i got home at 1:30 this morning, back from that most wonderful upset victory anyone in philadelphia will ever want to recall. no one wanted to leave the stadium. no one wants to forget it today. i'm talking about the feeling that last night came to south philadelphia. more on that later. but first, the government shutdown is almost over. now comes the hard part, governing. democrats in the u.s. senate

backed away from their call to reject a temporary funding bill without a law to help the so-called dreamers. well, the bill passed today will fund the government through february 8th in exchange for a commitment from senate majority leader mitch mcconnell to take up the immigration debate, including the dreamers. well, this morning mcconnell gave this assurance on the senate floor. >> as long as the government remains open, it would be my intention to take up legislation here in the senate that would address daca, border security, and related issues. >> well, a few hours later senator chuck schumer, the democratic leader said democrats would vote to reopen the government. here he goes. >> i expect the majority leader to fulfill his commitment to the senate, to me and to the bipartisan group and abide by this agreement. if he does not, of course, and i expect he will, he will have

breached the trust of not only the democratic senators, but members of his own party as well. >> well, despite the fact that president trump seemed to be a nonplayer in the negotiations this weekend, the white house took credit for the breakthrough. here with sarah huckabee sanders. let's watch her. >> the statement here from the president of the united states that i will read. quote, i am pleased that democrats in congress have come to their sense and are now willing to fund our great military, border patrol, first responders, and insurance for vulnerable children. the president was putting pressure and standing firm on exactly what he was willing to do and what he wasn't. and it very clearly worked. because we're back where we basically started on friday. and the democrats have now allowed this to move forward. hopefully the house will move this through quickly and it will be at the white house for the president to sign. and then we can start immediately on discussions on immigration reform. >> well, that's done now. so did democrats cave or did

they preserve their ability to fight another day? senator chris coons of delaware voted to reopen the government. he joins me now. senator, thank you about this. this is already becoming a predictable right between the left and the center left. i understand the fight. the resisters want to resist. the people that want regular order, want regular order. who is going to end up doing the best job in that debate in getting the dreamers protected? >> well, chris, what we got today, you just replayed it, was a commitment from majority leader mcconnell on the floor of the senate, and then a private commitment as well to his own caucus and to many of white house worked across the aisle over the weekend in a bipartisan group that we will get a vote on the floor of the senate on a bipartisan bill that addresses the dreamers, daca, and border security. we have not had a vote on the floor of the senate in five years on an immigration issue. and i think we've made progress. our challenge now over the next 17 days is to come together and to build a coalition that will support a bipartisan bill that

can get more than 60 votes on the floor of the senate, and then put the pressure on the house for them to take it up and pass it. i know there were some in our caucus that were disappointed that we didn't keep the government shutdown longer. but i frankly think it was unrealistic to expect that we would get more than we got today. and the group that worked very hard this weekend built some trust and confidence amongst each other and in their willingness to work hard together to get this done. >> well, the pot of gold at the end of the rain bow here i would think is a clear up or down u.s. senate vote on whether the dreamers get protected or not. do you believe it's going to be a pure vote, or will there be something on border protection or so-called family immigration or chain immigration or something like that or something about diversity lottery? or will you get a clean vote, up or down? yes do, you support the dreamers being protected or not? what will you get? >> well, chris, i think what's going to happen is there will be a neutral base build, a starting

point for the debate. and then a series of replacement bills taken up and voted up or down. some of them will be far to the right. the bill that cotton and perdue, two senators have proposed. others will like by votes like a straight-up dreamer protection. that, if it got 60 votes would move ahead. but in the current republican dominated senate, i doubt that will get 60 votes. i think there will be a mix of border protection infrastructure funding and protection for daca and for dreamers. that's the art of the deal that over the next 17 day, if we can work our will in the senate, we can move forward. and the president's role here frankly will be largely i hope to stay out of it and toe not jerk the wheel back and forth on this issue as he has over recent weeks. >> in deference to chuck schumer's leadership, that's what you guys wanted in the first place. you were willing to give some wall to give protection for the dreamers. isn't that correct? >> that's what leader schumer offered friday. >> yes. >> and he thought he had a

constructive and positive conversation with president trump. and then general kelly's chief of staff called him and walked it all back less than two hours later. that's why i say part of what caused this whole crisis was the difference between tuesday trump and thursday trump. the one who invites a bipartisan group into the oval office one week on tuesday and then says great positive things, and then thursday in a famously expletive-laced conversation in exchange with senators durbin and graham threw the whole deal out. i think that we made progress in focusing on the senate and not relying on the president and in having a bipartisan group build confidence that we can get to that vote before february 8th. >> senator coons, thanks for that claritilitive. thanks for coming on. joining me senator kennedy from louisiana. senator kennedy, do you think that's accurate, that there will be a vote where democrats and republicans will be forced to say aye or nay on the question of the dreamers?

will that vote come to a clarity of decision? >> it's a little more complicated than that, chris. here is what we agreed to. until february 8th, we will work on an immigration deal and a budget. if we reach february 8th and we don't have a budget, and we don't have an immigration bill, there is going to be another cr. the democrats are going have to vote for that cr and keep government open. at that point, senator mcconnell said he will put the immigration issue on the floor of the senate. that means certainly amnesty for daca immigrants. but that also means everything else. sanctuary city, chain migration, wall, inland security, a commonsensical color-blind immigration system that looks like somebody designed the thing on purpose, like in canada, australia, diversity visa

lottery, everything is going to be on the table. if we can reach 60 votes on an immigration bill, that bill will go to the house of representatives. i have no idea what will happen there. but if it passes the house, it will then go to the president. i think what we've taken -- i don't mean it's an insignificant step, but it's a baby step. i don't want anybody to be misled there is not going to be a single bill on amnesty for our daca immigrants up or down. that's not going happen in our natural lifetimes. >> but this the course of putting together the bill in this senate, won't there be a lone vote at some point where you vote up or down on daca? on dreamers? >> daca i'm sure will be voted on. but it's going to be voted on in the context of a lot of other issues. and look, this is something i said two weeks ago. what we ought to do is suspend the rules and just put it all on

the table and let's start voting and see if we can get 60 votes for something. i want to thank senator schumer for what he did. there's an old expression that's something like life is easier if you plow around the stump. and i think chuck decided today to plow around the stump. >> right. >> and i want to thank him for that. we're kind of back to where we started, but it was very important for all of us that we get the government back open. and on top of it, we just extended the children's health insurance program for six years. >> i see that. >> i'm very pleased with that as well. >> senator kennedy, would you vote on an up or down motion? would you vote aye on the dreamers? >> no. >> you'll vote. no what will you vote for? what's called chain immigration or family immigration you would vote for that? >> no, here's what i want to do. >> what do you want this what do you want? >> this is what i want to do. i want to use this opportunity

to prevent another daca-like situation five or ten years from now. the problem we have in my judgment is that we for the past 15 or 20 years, we have had a bipartisan refusal by both republicans and democrats to deal with this issue. we need to deal with it. i'd like to come out of this, just what i said earlier, chris. i'd like to come out of this with an immigration system that looks like somebody designed the damn thing on purpose for a change. we are a nation of immigrants. >> that sounds good to me. >> well, we are a nation of immigrants. and i'm very proud of that. when is the last time you heard anybody trying to sneak into china? i'm happy people want to come to america. but we're also a nation of laws. and we've got to agree to a set of laws that we're going to enforce. and that means putting everything on the table. and i'm not minimizing the importance of amnesty. but there are -- you do -- everybody said well the

president will trade the wall for amnesty. great. i'm happy for the president. but -- and for the people who want amnesty. but that's not going to get the whole senate on board. >> okay. >> look, we want to go big here. moderation is for months, man. we want to go big here. >> thank you, senator john kennedy of louisiana, thanks for coming on "hardball." >> thank you. >> i'm joined by kasie hunt on the hill and eugene robinson with me. kasie, you first. you just heard an interesting conflict there, i think, and that's coons is optimistic they'll get a vote on the dreamers, and this guy, john kennedy, of course he is a conservative from louisiana, and he wants to have -- this is an opportunity, not to vote for the dreamers. he is going to vote against that part of it. but he is going to get the part he wants, which is called by the conservatives chain immigration and get rid of diversified -- diversity lottery, the things they don't like because it brings in a lot of minorities. your thoughts. >> i do think that we are headed for, chris, a debate that is

going to be a lot uglier than the kumbahyah moment that we had here in the senate today. and these 20 democrats and republicans got together in a room and essentially came out saying, hey, we trust each other. well like each other a little bit more than we think. and i got to tell you, i haven't had -- it used to happen when i was first covering capitol hill ten years ago. this is something that you saw regularly. i was standing outside of rooms that included democrats and republicans, waiting to see if they had a deal that has faded over time. and really, they have gotten to lawmakering inside their own party. the health care debate that we just went through, the tax reform debate was all about what were five republican leaders in a room going to do. now this issue of all issues is so incredibly difficult and has bedevilled everyone up here for so long. i am skeptical that they can get to the point where they can keep this kind of bipartisan mood going for precisely what john kennedy just identified there. and that is that the white house

is interested in making some very serious changes to our legal immigration system in the course of doing this that i think a lot of even some republicans weren't -- lindsey graham and jeff flake weren't signed to when to fix daca. it was going to be relatively limited. we're past that. and i don't know if it necessarily spells good things for the next three weeks. >> well, we'll see if the republicans can get 50 votes for those harsher measures. anyway, the message this weekend from trump, from the president and his allies played on fear, of course. this morning trump tweeted "the democrats are turning down services and security for citizens in favor of service and security for noncitizens. not good slo." that's pretty brutal. and democrats have shut down the government in the interests of their far left base. they don't want to do it, but

are powerless. anyway, this commercial released approved by the president. let's watch it. >> i spent my entire adult life looking out for the -- >> trump is right. build the wall. deport criminals. stop illegal immigration now. democrats who stand in our way will be complicit in every murder committed by illegal immigrants. president trump will fix our border and keep our families safe. >> well, meanwhile the vice president traveling overseas today had this message. a pretty brutal one for a group of soldiers he talked to over there. let's watch that. >> despite bipartisan support for a budget resolution, a minute in order in the senate has decided to play politics with military pay, but you deserve better. know this. your president, your vice president, and the american people are not going to put up with it. we're going to demand that they reopen the government.

in fact, we're not going to reopen negotiations on illegal immigration until they reopen the government and give you our soldiers and your families the benefits and wages you've earned. >> i'm sorry. we got the wrong tape there. gene, what do you make of this the fact that they're brutally using this, saying the soldiers are not getting paid, but the politicians were? >> well, a lot of tough talk. this was a base issue for trump. and whenever -- when he met with schumer, for example, and made a wall for daca, a deal, you heard the outcry on the right. you heard the outcry from his base saying you can't do this. you're abandoning, he is weakening. i think this is once again a base move, a base strategy to say no, no, no, we're standing firm on immigration. you know, the question, and i think we know the answer, are they going to redesign the u.s. immigration system in 17 days between now and -- no. >> the answer is they're not going to. >> but they're also going to blame democrats for any crime committed by anybody in this

country without papers. every murder, everyone is on the democrats' side, their account. i've never heard this before. >> that's an outrageous -- >> and another thing they're going to tell the soldiers, you guys are getting to dock your pay while the politicians fat and happy back in washington are getting their money. >> yeah, i know. look, democrats are in the situation because they're in a minority, right? you can't govern from the minority. and so, you know, the bill was engineered with military pay and a bunch of other stuff and. so they can be put in that position. you know, one thing senator kennedy said, though, i'm a little less pessimistic that he is in terms of whether there could be a majority or 60-vote majority even in the senate for daca. >> i think so. >> versus wall. i think there might be. i think people read that poll, 87% of people support it. yeah that. >> put them together. >> what do you think of these poison pills? do you think they'll pass these things like chain immigration they call it?

>> family reunification. they call it chain migration. that's really complicated. >> i don't think they get the votes. >> i don't think there is 50 votes for that. and i don't think you can do that in 17 days. >> i'm more optimistic about the good stuff. kasie, last question to you. do you think the good stuff will get through here? do you think it will get through, the dreamers' cause and not too much messiness? how it is looking right now? >> i do think, chris, that there is enough in theory, momentum around fixing this problem for the dreamers that really, i think just the realities is they can't do it, it's going show that the government really is incredibly broken. >> yeah. >> because the president has said this. he has said i want to do this for these kids. i don't want this to be a problem. paul ryan has said i want to fix this. everyone. that's why the shutdown was so remarkable. not only do republicans control the house, the senate and the white house, but it was over an issue that in theory everybody says that they support. and so we'll see if basically

those negotiations are riding on whether or not those 20 senators can continue to trust each other and figure this out. and that's going to -- the questions in my mind, is that going to carry the day? and what's paul ryan going to do. this is going to be a crucible for him potentially. a real leadership test. and i'm not sure. >> the house has always been the problem on immigration. it was problem back with boehner and hastert and all. they just can't seem to get it through the right wing seats throughout in the house. thank you so much, kasie, i think the senate looks better though, kasie hunt and eugene robinson. coming up, negotiating with donald trump is like negotiating with jell-o. even top republicans have no clue where the president stands on the issues right now. where has the president been to tend talks on the shutdown? he has been sitting at the white house like mrs. habersham. he didn't get his cake this year. he was supposed to have a big party on friday. he had to stick around in washington. that's all we know about him. he sun happy about not getting

his birthday cake. plus saying it's a good thing because it made democrats look bad. who s he right? who have the winners and losers. and "saturday night live" asked a serious question about donald trump. does anything he does even matter? let's watch. >> the president of the united states, refers to african hunts as pooh-pooh holes and says all haitians have aids. does it event matter anymore? >> that's really bad. i has to matter, yes. >> actually, it does not matter. zero consequences and everyone just moves on. >> it's funny stuff about a serious line across this country nothing matters that trump does. finally, let me finish with trump watch. he won't like this. this is "hardball," where the action is. driving ourselves to. be more. tough to make time for it all. but we can always find time to listen. to great thinkers, and fearless explorers. whose stories fuel our minds... and imaginations. stories that take us places our hamstrings alone can't.

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driving down the field, i thought that's what was happening in the beginning of the game. then something truly wonderful happened in south philadelphia. victory! awesome, spectacular victory. not losing by half a touchdown, but by winning 38-7. an astounding, historic upset in philly. now the eagles are headed to the super bowl, of course, something they're not used to at all, having most of the country watch this thing two weeks from now pulling for them, not the patriots that will truly be something. and i don't want to forget last night however ever my old city needed that win. boy did they need that win. and they won it in magical style. fly, eagles, fly. we'll be right back. there's a vacation at the end of every week. whatever type of weekender you are, don't let another weekend pass you by.

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i will bring america to a new level. i will negotiate deals that nobody can negotiate like i do. nobody. i know everybody that i'm rung against. i mean, nobody is going to be able to do the kind of things i can do. >> it's supposed to be you can get along with congress and you

cajole and you go back and forth and everybody gets in a room and we end up with deals. >> everybody gets in a room except you, mr. president. welcome back to "hardball." during the campaign, candidate trump positioned himself, as you just heard as a deal maker who can fix washington. but the events of the past several days have left many to wonder, where is that deal maker? and what does he actually want in this deal? throughout the weekend the president remained mostly silent and seemingly disengaged, only communicating with a fellow few republicans. the "new york times" reports the president was urged to step back from the fray, and for a second day he vented to aides that he wanted to do more to get involved. his lack of clarity overall seemed to complicate the debate. >> negotiating with president trump is like negotiating with jell-o. that's why this compromise will be called the trump shutdown. >> i'm looking for something that president trump supports. and he has not yet indicated what measure he is willing to

sign. as soon as we figure out what he is for, then i would be con finished that we were not just spinning our wheels. >> the tuesday, trump, if he comes back, then we'll get a deal. if they keep pulling him back, it's going to be hard to get this issue over. >> well, what has been difficult is dealing with the white house and not knowing where the president is. and that was what was holding us back and holdi mitch mcconnell from his commitment. >> how has that changed? >> i don't think it has. >> much of the weekend's drama stems from the president's vacillating comments. let's watch. >> when this group comes back, hopefully with an agreement, this group and others, from the senate, from the house comes back with an agreement, i'm signing it. i mean, he will be signing it. i'm not going say oh, gee, i want this or i want that. >> for more ruth marcus, deputy page editor for "the washington

post" and matt schlapp, chairman of the american conservative union. start with ruth and then to matt. i want to know how this looks because the president said if the house and the senate got together, i'll sign it. well, it doesn't happen like that. does dl is the position of the republican republicans and the democrats. maybe they'll reach consensus. doesn't he know that? >> well, they believe the leader of his water usually leads his party and doesn't sit there and wait passively for something to come to him. and that was a remarkable montage. not of democrats complaining about the republican president and not knowing his position, but of republicans complaining about the republican president and not knowing his position. >> is he against the dreamers or for them? he has said he is for them and he is not acting that way. >> well, he is for them. and from my point of view, he is allowing his support for the bill of love as he called it. >> yep. >> to be undone by people who are less for the dreamers than

the president has proclaimed tims to be. >> what is this, the hidden hand of eisenhower? who is he pretending to be here? >> i read that buy, by greenstein? >> yeah. >> what does this preshlg behavi presidential behavior like peter the hermit. what is he doing hiding in the white house? >> nobody who voted for donald trump thought he would be the legislative director for country. they all realized he was going to asset big picture, which he did. >> what is his big picture for dreamer? >> he would like to get to a big deal on dreamers. he would like to couple it with immigration which a lot of people have been talking for a long time. i think it's possible to get a deal. both sides are going to have to give. look, any amnesty on the republican side, even to dreamers is politically charged and is not an easy thing to do. he is willing to say i'll take the heat. but i want to see something done on the other side too so we actually control who comes to our country. otherwise you just have this amnesty question every decade. it's an unsane way to do your immigration part. shows. >> the president's position or

positions been helpful to achieving a dreamer deal here? >> we wouldn't even be talking about this, ruth, if he hadn't convened those senators in that cabinet room. let me tell you. you can make fun of it with jell-o and everything else. he won the showdown. it's trump, 1, schumer, 0. the question is now does this set the table to dull actually do real immigration reform? >> just for the record we wouldn't be talking about it if the president hadn't rescind daca sway program that is going on. >> that's not true. >> let's wind this back to reality. there is a bipartisan immigration bill which was pretty damn comprehensive when ted kennedy was still alive. it had the support of linlindse. >> who didn't it have is the support of? barack obama. he did not support the bill when he was president. >> it passed the senate. >> when he had 60 votes in the united states senate and could have jammed through anything through immigration, he didn't pick it up. >> where do you get this from? it passed the senate with his

support. >> ted kennedy was -- no back when george w. bush was president? >> i'm talking about five years ago. >> when he didn't have -- >> why are you saying the democrats are at fault when the house-led republicans. >> let me answer fast. i'll be fast. >> why won't they bring it gallup the house? >> my only point is when the democrats had the super majority that. >> could have gotten done. they chose not to i think it's going to happen soon. >> really? >> yes. >> so they're going to vote? that's good news. >> trump's going to make them do it. >> i think paul ryan also wants to do it. i'm not sure what the order is going to be, ruth, but i think the president is dead serious. >> by the way, no hastert rule. none of this thing about -- >> i didn't say that i didn't say that. >> wait a minute, you're going have is a have a majority of the republicans -- >> look at the details? >> why you guys so cagey? >> i'm not. >> you're laughing. you're lauflg as you talk. you think it's a joke. >> no, i think this is awfully serious. i'd like to see us gate deal. qing get a deal.

>> so you're for the dreamers becoming protected? >> i want to see the deal. i would be for it if you coupled it with a change on chain migration and a change on the lottery system. >> you keep coming up with the partridge in a pear tree that. >> i don't have to do the deal. but that's the dheel will get through. >> look, ruth you tell it. will there be a deal? will we get past this argument that never seems to end? >> well, the thing about jell-o is i think that senator schumer is a little unfair to jell-o because jell-o once it comes out of the mold kind of holds its shape. >> it gels. >> it gels, as it were. >> yes. >> and the president has changed what shape this deal needs to be. you keep sort of piling additional things in there. that's going to be really hard. >> consumer loss to jell-o. >> i think there is a deal there if they do the dreamers. the president doesn't want to be stuck with inimprisoning these people and then deporting them. it's not going to look booed.

you rebelian gonzalez. imagine innocent people getting kicked out of the country after being arrested. it's not going look good for him. secondly, i think you do something on the wall. protecting this country on illegal entry is something people agree on as part of the law if it's reasonable. thing is a deal there but you add all this other stuff. what you want to do is poison it sounds like to me. >> no. you shouldn't give out visas to come to this country in a lottery. should it be because they have the economic skills we need. we shouldn't be displacing american workers willy-nilly. >> did your grandparents have the economic skills when they came here? >> they came here legally and they passed every standard that we had. and you couldn't just walk over the border. >> my grandfather -- >> indenture papers from our ancestors. >> god bless them. >> he had $10 in his pocket. >> i know. thank you, ruth marcus, matt schlapp. matt, you're a tough conservative. i guess you're proud of that. up next, the president says the shutdown was good thing for republicans because it paint

democrats in a bad light. he right? at the end of the day, which side is coming out on top of these negotiations? that's to be decided. i think there is still a good chance for the dreamer, and i think mitch mcconnell has his head on this one. this shard bawl, where the action is. nt... (engine starting up) ...when it can get by on looks alone? why create something that stands out, when everyone expects you to fit in? it's simple. you can build a car, or you can build a cadillac. come in now for this exceptional offer on the cadillac cts. get this low-mileage lease on this 2018 cadillac cts from around $469 per month. visit your local cadillac dealer.

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side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. change the course of your treatment. ask your doctor about victoza®. >> what the president did clearly worked. the vote just came in, 81-18. i would say that those numbers are much more in the president's favor than in senator schumer's

favor. i'm not sure what other positive things came out of this weekend for democrats. >> she is so depressing. welcome back to "hardball" that is white house press secretary sarah sanders, paid for by your tax dollars, claiming victory for president trump after the congress passed their stopgap spending bill. trump also declared a win saying it made democrats look bad. he is not really an authority. let's put that into place before we listen to him. here we go. let's listen. >> you look at this whole government shutdown. the only reason they want to shut down government is to distract and to stop his momentum. i mean, my father has had incredible momentum. he's gotten more done in one year than arguably any president in history. so how do they divert from that message? how do they save their own party when they don't have any leadership that. >> don't have any good candidates out there that. >> don't have a message of their own? how do they do that? they destruct. they distract. they try and place game.

and it's the worst the government. honestly, i think it's a good thing for us. >> honestly, father knows best. but voters seem to disagree. a new politico morning consult poll conducted in the days leading up to this shutdown found more voters, 41% would blame republicans than democrats. only 36 blaming democrats. not a big difference, but a difference. the blame game over the shutdown could add to what already looks like trouble for republicans. and here is the big one. this is the one that matters. a new "washington post"/abc poll out today shows voters would prefer democrats by 51% when democrats ran the congress, 39% and that's 12 points that should be enough, even with all the gerrymandering and other crap went on for democrats to grab the house if they hold that number. that's after all the talking and barking. 51-39 democrats. let's bring in the round table. correspondent for pbs news hour now. boy, you're rising up. sam steiner, of course the daily

beast. and jonathan, oss. jonathan, let's lie think it. you try to figure out today. you saw mcconnell make some sort of deal, promising a vote. not a win, but vote. ayes or nays on the dream act and whether they're going daytona under law and codify it and take executive order of obama and make into it the law. these people get to stay here without the law bothering them. it is likely it will become law? >> so let's start with this. sometimes when you watch the senate, you're looking behind, you're looking at the people out front. you have no idea what happened behind the scenes to get to that point. today you're looking at the senate and you could tell by looking at the big fat smile on mitch mcconnell's face that he had eaten democrats' lunch. >> you think so? >> absolutely. >> he said he had an intention to bring up an immigration bill

if there is no bill before february 28th. when he does bring that up, he is talking about a neutral bill with an open amendment process that is highly unusual for senate. the idea that they're going to come up with something that way in some short period of time before march 5th to get it through is insane. could it happen? i suppose -- >> what about the 30 bipartisan senators who got together and are basically guaranteeing this deal? sam, they're saying according to, if you listen to dick durbin. >> sure. >> those 30 people from both parties are going to make sure this vote comes about. >> well, yes. so i'm a little bit more bullish than jonathan is on this. that being said, mcconnell did promise jeff flake that there would be an immigration vote in january, we know how that worked out. >> i mean, seriously? >> yes. i mean, he was to jeff flake. that's objectively true. i don't know how he is as a human being. but this is the case, which is what democrats are hanging their hat on. first of all, they erred in

probably getting into the shutdown mess to begin with. but now they're in it -- >> did you say that at the time? >> yeah. >> okay, good. i'm checking you. >> okay. for specific reasons. one was to get the children health care issue taken off the ledger so it can no longer be used as a political cudgel. and two because they feel like they have a slightly more advantageous perch by which to negotiate three weeks from. now i don't know if it's going to go anywhere past the senate. you need 60 senators to joy agree on one thing and nothing else to muddy the waters. it is possible. you can imagine a bill that is possible in which it's the contras of the durbin-graham compromise that can make -- >> some wall, a lot of dreamers. >> more wall because you need 60. dreamer protections, something on visa lottery, something on chain migration, thaeb you can county up, get a vote in the senate, assuming mitch allows a vote and then it dies because it never gets through the house.

>> that's it. that's exactly it. this only happens if mcconnell and schummer are behind it and there is a deal with trump. >> look, the trouble with that, and i understand pessimism sells. and i agree with it largely in terms of history. if that's the case, yammish, this president is stuck with the dreamers getting arrested and deported in front of everybody. >> there is one out. there is nothing that prevents trump from pushing that deadline further down the road. >> by executive order? >> he already hint head would do it. >> he could do that -- >> not president. >> get into all the -- but i think that the thing that i sit on is the fact that if there is going to be something which i see from my reporting is that the daca thing is probably going to be settled. i think they're going get their money for their border security. i think they want $33 million. i think democrats are going to give to it them. we going have a situation where you're going toned quote/unquote chain migration which is essentially every single

immigrant in this country came here. most came here by bringing in their families. i don't think there is any democrats that are going to be able to go back to their constituents and say i was able to end that. i was able to vote for something like that. >> that's a poison bill? >> yeah, that's a poison bill. >> i agree with you. i don't think the wall is. the round table is sticking with us. "saturday night live" asked the question that's on lat of our minds, what even matters anymore. at this point can this president get away with just about anything? well, the history so far suggests yes. in fact, yes. a little more comment.

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welcome back to "hardball." whether or not americans ultimately hold president trump responsible for the government shutdown, he has proven to be teflon don if you will more than once. trump has been able to stir up seemingly endless controversies without face anything consequences. this weekend, for instance, the cast of "saturday night live" tackled that issue with a skit called "what even matters anymore."

>> welcome to "what even matters anymore, the show where i tell you something our president did or said and you have to tell me does it even matter anymore. the president of the united states refers to african countries as pooh-pooh holes and says all haitians have aides. does it even matter anymore? >> that's really bad. that has to matter, yes. >> mmm, actually, it does not matter. zero consequences and everyone just moves on. the president has an extramarital affair with a porn star right after his wife gives birth to his son, then he pays the porn star to shut up. does it even matter to save his evangelical base? >> to evangelical, of course it matters. it's against everything they stand for. >> you'd think so, but. no they say he is just repented, and they forgive him. and mike pence is like this my dude. it doesn't even matter anymore. fake news, fake news!

>> i'm back with the "hardball" round table. it reminds me of the old jesse jackson skit with the question that is moot. remember? no matter what somebody said, the question is moot. this time around it makes a profound point. that he seems to be immune to the normal standards. >> i think it's because you're really drinking out of a fire hose there is this idea that it's constant news cycles, constant controversies. so i think we have learned when you have one controversy, a small one that might mike your mother blush, then it all gets blown up. but if you do 18 different things, it doesn't matter. >> you're all students, but i think i am too. but is this a message to all future politicians? just show no shame and move on. gary hart showed tremendous shame and got caught with a girlfriend with what's her name. and of course john edwards got involved, wilbur mills, richard nixon, they all had some element of shame. this guy kicks to it the side. >> there is something to the side that if you don't give in,

you'll survive. david visittter and his own scandals. >> her had home and away games. >> i do think it matters. we say he is teflon. but mid-30s popularity rating. we're in an economy. >> 39. >> well, generously. we're in an economy that is doing quite well. the stock market is doing quite well. >> why don't the conservative christian people care? barack obama given this song many times. it's true. he lives a clean life. he has never done anything wrong in terms of his marriage. he raise his kids properly. he uses good language. he does everything that very christian conservative people believe net. got no point. remember, that there are a lot of people that are voting on one issue, and that issue is abortion. there is that issue. >> so as long as he gives voice vois to oppositional abortion, just voice to it. >> but his background is a reality tv star which means his viewers expect less. >> women should be punished for

abortions. he didn't say how. i said oh, he is finished. he is finished. no! >> he was signalling to the base it's like the leadership in washington, those base voters is we never want to say that out loud. but there is a real belief in that. and it didn't hurt him. i think it helped him. [ overlapping dialog ] >> you mean brutally pro-life. >> that doesn't hurt him in a republican primary to be so pro-life. i think yamiche is absolutely right. it's a good point you made about abortion being the single issue with those voters. you asked if other politicians could take a lesson from that i don't think other politicians have the time to do as many things as donald trump has done that would shame and embarrass everybody else in the country. >> they believed that all this extracurricular behavior exposed over the years doesn't allow for abortion, that he never was involved in anything like that. they actually believe that? >> yes. >> okay.

thank you. >> i just want to say one thing. >> also voted for a quote/unquote wild card. i had so many supporters who said they kind of understood he was little bit of a guess, but they were going for him because he was interesting. he was the hot hampbltdnd. so people expected this to be a a little bit crazy. >> he firmly believes he has thicker skin, and if he can just last longer, take more hell than anyone else. >> on fifth avenue, he is clean. the round table is sticking with us. going to come up and tell us things i didn't know. we're coming right back. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira, we make sure you're in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. ♪ oh and at fidelity, you'll see how all your investments are working together. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. ♪ just remember what i said about a little bit o' soul ♪

when we come back, the hardball round table gives us the buzz tonight in washington. back after this. get ready for centrum micro-workouts. the bottle curl. the twist n' turn. the stretch n' grab. the gummy squish. centrum micronutrients fuel your body from the inside out. grab a centrum and join in. repeat daily. [ laughs ] rodney. bowling. classic. can i help you?

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whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? uh huh! let it go! whoo! get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover. i'm back with the "hardball" round table. yam mitiche yamiche? >> the fbi director threatened to resign amid pressure to fire his deputy. this is pretty big news. >> is this wray? >> yes, this is christopher wray. >> the current. oh my god, another one ready to fall. go ahead. >> i can't stop that axios scoop. as of 6:00 p.m. today, chuck schumer and donald trump had not spoken about with funding deal which does not give you much hope. >> what happened to this long talk down there? >> friday was big day for them. they haven't talked since. >> u.s. conference of mayors is in town this week in washington, d.c. there are at least four people who think they might be presidential material. eric garcetti of los angeles,

bill de blasio of new york, and mitch landrieu. that's going to be the hot buzz. >> i agree. we're going to try to get three at least there is only room for three here. thank you, yamiche alcindor, sam stein. jonathan allen. when we return, trump watch. you're watching "hardball." this is laura. and butch. and tank. and tiny. and this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what?

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trump watch.

monday, january 22nd, 2018. i believe president trump is headed where he doesn't want to gone oimmigration. if this deal between mitch mcconnell and the democrats holds, there is going to be an up or down vote on the dreamers. i expect it to carry well over 60 votes. so was where does that leave the president? if after the senate acts he does nothing or makes things worse for the dreamers, and the house of representatives fails to act, trump will have been the one responsible. he will have dropped the ball in the end zone. le he will not only be the bad guy. he'll be the one out there arresting the dreamers. he donald trump is the one whose name will be ordering the arrest and deportations. he, donald trump personally. i recognize the messiness and uncertainty of what will come before this. but in the end it will be trump who will have to live with a country without daca. whatever you say about donald trump, he is a marketer. the case of the dreamers sells. in a country that agrees on little, four out of five agree on daca. that's rare. and trump nose it. he doesn't want to build his reelection among the one in five

who hate any mention of giving legal status to people who didn't come here within the law. i predict trump will have to reckon with the dreamers before these 800,000 people will have to reckon with him. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> if there is a shutdown, i think it would be a tremendously negative mark on the president of the united states. >> democrats cut a deal. >> the great deal making president sat on the sidelines. >> tying the dreamers' fate to a promise from mitch mcconnell. >> do you trust mitch mcconnell to follow through? >> tonight thundershower, government shutdown ended in spite of the president. >> when this group comes back, hopefully with an agreement, i'm signing it. >> and can a government run by donald trump, john kelly and stephen miller actually do the right thing on daca? >> this is an amazing moment. and the massive resistance takes to the streets.