one-on-one with bob mueller? i guess that's possibly a good question. meanwhile three separate anti-mueller narratives pushed by the president's allies, collapsed yesterday on capitol hill. they were good deflections. >> really. >> a deflecto-meter. >> a sound from bugs bunny, wah, wah, wah. i'm still trying, mike, to -- we'll show it in a second, i'm trying to wrap my arms around the fact that a united states senator from wisconsin, would talk about the existence of the secret society inside the fbi that was trying to launch a coup d'etat against the president of the united states. and when pressed about it, he said -- we're looking into it. and then we find out, it is one

text, that is a joke. is there a recall process for united states senators from wisconsin? because people, not only around this country, but our enemies across the world heard a sitting united states senator say that he believed that there was a secret society inside the federal bureau of investigation that was planning a coup d'etat against the united states president. this -- >> that's big news. >> it's going to be very easy for us this morning to laugh at the stupidity of it all. there's nothing funny about people using conspiracy theories to slur the men and women of the fbi. it used to be liberals that attacked law enforcement officers. certain liberals. and we conservatives were proud to defend the c.i.a.

we were proud to defend the fbi and the people who we believe defend us. now it is republicans that are slandering and slurring the fbi at every turn. >> so with ron johnson, it's clearly one of two things. either he is of such limited intellect that he couldn't pick up upon reading those text messages, that it was a joke in the aftermath of the election and was literally written right after the aftermath of the election. or it's with malicious intent that he and others have combined, in a cabal -- >> who are the others? you had trey gowdy. and who was he standing next to talking about the, the secret society? it's a secret society. we're going to look into it. who was it? >> you have elements of people on television, on cable netwo networks, with a concerted effort to destroy, the hope, the underpinnings the trust that

people have in the fbi. >> go ahead, willie and toss it to me. >> the republican senator from texas who was standing with trey gowdy. he gave a speech about the secret society and said i don't know if it's true. they're putting donald trump ahead of the good of the country. and for what? donald trump doesn't care about them. they get into a foxhole with a guy who will turn on them as soon as he gets a chance. >> he's going to leave washington, mika. and when he leaves washington, the music is going to stop and there are going to be a lot of fbi agents and a lot of conservatives, and there are going to be a lot of republican voters who are going to be staring at them and say wait -- you did what to defend donald trump? you claimed that a coup d'etat was being undertaken? and you based it on a joke in a text? and you let people believe for 24 hours that was happening? i know you have to get to devin nunez and what he's done.

he's trying to release a memo that the justice department doesn't want released, that the fbi doesn't want released, that nobody wants released except -- wait for it, wait for it, wait for it -- the russians! the russians are actually with the russian bots going hashtag #releasethememo while donald trump's justice department is saying, if you roo he lease this memo, the contents you don't even know about, you will damage united states' intel gathering. and yet devin nunes is not listening to justice, he's following the russians and their bots. >> so along with joe, willie, mike barnicle and me we have columnist at the "washington examiner" and "washington post" columnist, and politics editor, oh, really -- >> just turned the screen

orange -- >> can i say, can i just say something? >> yeah. >> there are no finer people in this world than the technicians at "morning joe." >> did you bring them coffee? >> i wasn't going to say anything, i bought coffee for them on friday. and i got an email this morning from starbucks saying that alex coursen had not opened my coffee certificate yet. >> now he throws me under the bus. >> i'm just saying. >> alex, can you turn him orange? >> we're working on it. >> let's go to a neutral screen. >> i think we brought him back too soon. three republican members of congress, each of whom chair powerful committees on capitol hill ran to the cameras earlier this week seemingly in a panic over secret societies, missing text messages and allegations of wrongdoing in the justice department. >> it is no coincidence in my

opinion that we're missing texts that run from when the russian investigation was launched, right up to the point where you have the mueller investigation being launched. >> what's missing is important. but also, what's there is important. it is manifest bias, not just against trump, but against his kids, against his business interests. there's a text where they hope that trump hotel fails. that is a level of bias that you rarely see and you never see from law enforcement officers. >> what this is all about is further evidence of corruption, more than bias, but corruption at the highest levels of the fbi. and the secret society, we have an informant that's talking about a group that are holding secret meetings offsite. there's so much smoke here, there's so much suspicion here. >> let's stop there. a secret society. secret meetings off-site of the

justice department. >> correct. >> and you have an informant saying that? >> yes. >> anything more about that in. >> we have to dig into it. this is not a distraction. again, this is, this is bias potentially corruption at the highest levels of the fbi. that is now investigating and now by the way, robert mueller used to run the fbi. he is in no position to do an investigation over this kind of misconduct. so i think at this point in time we probably should be looking at the special counsel to undertake this investigation. >> so, willie from his secret society, one text that was a joke, he's talking about corruption at the highest levels of the fbi. and says that because robert mueller bravely and honorably ran the federal bureau of investigation through the most harrowing domestic challenge of our time, 9/11, and because he did so admirably, ron johnson is

saying that this vietnam highly decorated vietnam war hero is unqualified to, to do his job? >> he just laid out their case. he just laid out the republican case. that the fbi is corrupt, bob mueller used to run the fbi. therefore bob mueller is corrupt. therefore the outcome and the results and the findings of his investigation will in some way be corrupt. based on a text about a secret society. you had john ratcliff, he said we learned information about a secret society. i'm not saying they actually happened. why are they putting it out there? if you have evidence, tell the country. but if you don't know what happen and you're speculating and are just throwing mud at the fbi -- >> that's a slur on the fbi. >> a separate congressional source has provided nbc news with the message between fbi lawyer lisa page and agent peter

strzok who were romantically involved and discussed politics, sent within hours after trump won the presidency. it shows the couple expressing concern in texts, about what lies ahead. seems kind ever depressing, maybe it should be the first yesterday, seeming to nervously walk back his earlier allegations. watch him. >> your informant confirm that these off-site meetings took place? >> listen, i never -- i the term "secret society" comes from strzok and page. all i said is it didn't surprise me, we are the committee the whistleblowers come to to talk to about all kinds of problems throughout the federal government. i had heard of a group of people within the fbi holding secret off-site meetings. i was kind of connecting the dots. it didn't surprise me when i heard that term. but that's strzok and page's

term, not mine. >> david ignatius, the conspiracy theories swirling around the fbi, the attacks, united states senator suggesting that there's quote corruption at the highest levels of the fbi. and that robert mueller is unqualified for the position which he holds. several other attacks happening yesterday. the same day these republicans find out that robert mueller wants to interview donald trump. can you talk about speaking of corrosive, just the corrosive effect that this has, not only on the united states, but also across the world? >> well i've been talking to former fbi officials, a few current fbi officials in the last couple weeks. and this is taking a toll. they feel like they're, being public target. their professionalism, which is what they care about most is being attacked. if you're at the fbi, your one

rule is stay out of politics. every day they get dragged deeper in it. you have to think about what's going on here. the fbi has been asked to investigate a conspiracy by our principal foreign adversary, russia, to meddle in our elections and to protect the president in that investigation, republicans are now alleging a conspiracy inside the fbi that, if you listen to them, is a treasonous conspiracy against the country. it's an extraordinary charge. the best thing that happened yet yesterday was that the department of justice, trump's department of justice, in the person of assistant attorney general steven boyd, sent a letter to the house intelligence committee saying the attempt to disseminate this material without having it reviewed by the fbi, would be extraordinarily reckless. those are his words, and further, that on the key area that these republicans have been

alleging, conspiracy behavior involving the completion of fisa warrants, that's what's in the memo that nunes is trying to circulate. that the justice department finds no evidence, is not aware of any wrongdoing in the completion of that process. so you have the bureaucracy, thank goodness in a time when people are trying to intimidate them, pushing back, speaking out. speaking for the department of justice, the integrity of the people there. that was one of the good events yesterday. >> it was. >> the campaign by johnson and the others -- extraordinary. >> and also, a deflection to what's really going on. that letter to congressman devin nunes renews the request by fbi director chris wray, that the chairman share the memo with the justice department for review. either to them or the fbi's inspector-general, since they are unaware of the wrongdoing it alleges and would like to investigate first. the letter states it would be extraordinarily reckless to release classified memo which has been urged by the

president's son, donald trump junior, as well as russian bots, according to the german marshall fund, a group that tracks their activity. >> so don jr. and russian bots want -- this means the russian intelligence services, want us to release a highly classified memo. and republicans, devin nunes, the head of the intel -- paul ryan is the person who put him there. paul ryan is the person who is responsible for absolutely everything that devin nunes does -- paul ryan. >> so nbc news reports that nunes has resisted sharing the memo even with the senate intelligence committee chairman. richard burr. and last night, on msnbc's "all in" ranking democrat adam schiff described how the letter revealed how little the house intelligence members care what is actually in the document.

>> what's so astounding to me about the fbi/doj letter is it reveals for the first time chairman nunes didn't read the underlying materials, after making this fuss and claiming all this conspiracy, he didn't bother to take the time to read the materials that he was characterizing in this memo. the only two member who is have read the underlying materials are myself and trey gowdy. and bear in mind mr. gowdy is the same one who brought us those endless benghazi conspiracy theories, none of which proved to be true. so when i moved in the committee at the time the republicans voted to provide this flawed document to the house, i made a motion to allow the members to read the underlying materials before they voted on characterizing them in such a distorted fashion. they voted that down. i moved to let the -- >> wait a minute, they chose to not allow to read the actual underlying materials that are at

issue that provide the ingredients for the memo? they actively chose to not read that stuff? >> that's exactly right. to a person, the republican members voted against allowing themselves to read the underlying materials that they were characterizing. >> so kristen, everything is upside-down now. you have evangelical leaders basically saying -- we don't care what the president does, the same ones that were skewering bill clinton are now perfectly fine with everything that donald trump does. and now you have republicans, conservatives supposedly, people who claim to be conservatives, constantly attacking our intel agencies. this is what we used to attack liberals for doing. with the church commission, and you know, constantly going after the c.i.a., constantly attacking the integrity of the fbi. it seems like everything is reversed these days. >> i don't think anyone should be immune from criticism,

because they wear a uniform, because they're in a sector of our government that deserves respect, doesn't mean you should be shielded from criticism. if something bad is going on, and there is evidence of it, then by all means, criticize the fbi. but when i read that text, i'm a believer that sometimes the simplest explanation is usually the right one. to me that reads people setting up, a couple frustrated folks getting drinks it could be something more than that. it might not be. but to sow the seeds of kpirscy theory, is this more than a couple of people wanting to grab beers and vent their frustration? if we don't know that, why stir people up with that information. i don't think we shouldn't be looking into things. i don't think anyone should be immune from criticism and scrutiny. i think if you're going to criticize, you should have solid evidence that it's deserved. >> sam stein, jump in.

>> this is not the first time that devin nunes has done something like this. you would have thought his credibility would have been burnt with the infamous unmasking scandal that happened earlier this year. and in fact he actually had to keep his distance from the investigation -- >> let's remind people that he held a press conference outside the intel committee. he said i am going to take information to the white house. >> yes. >> that is disturbing. and then he got to the white house and had no information. and was then given information from the white house. and then went back out -- >> presented it to the president, acted as if it was revelatory. in fact chairman burr of the senate accused him of concocting an entire scandal. would you think in normal times after that, your credibility would be irrevokably burned and no one would trust you again. but we live in interesting times. i would encourage viewers for a few minutes, at night, to turn on fox news to understand why

this stuff persists. because if you watch fox news in the evening line-up, they are having entirely different conversations relatively devoid of any logical underpinning. it's in that ether that we have things, like, a secret society, that gets credence. every night there are new questions about the veracity of the robert mueller investigation. which is ramping up and up. >> what did lou dobbs say a couple days ago? >> something about deep-state people and yadda yadda. >> we have to go to war with the fbi. >> yes. >> it's time to go to war with the fbi. that's why, go to war with the men and women who protect americans. from terror attacks. they're on the front line -- that would be like us saying domestically, they're on the front line. that would be like us saying we have to go to war with the united states marine corps.

>> imagine a good chunk of the populace is getting this message every single night and it's only ramping up as mueller's investigation winds down. so that explains a lot of this. there's a huge chunk of our population who is just utterly convinced that the deep state is out to get donald trump. and it's not bound to anything. it's bound to weird conspiracy theories that are floated by ron johnson. but it's there. >> is this why donald trump is there a method to the madness? is this why donald trump has been attacking nonstop, the intel community, even before he got into office and the media, from the very beginning? because he knew that this was coming? >> so off of that, joe, off of your observation, off of what david ignatius just indicated, over the past couple of days, i've talked to four different people, two from the intelligence committee, two from the fbi, formerly from the fbi. and each of them have a similar

strain of thought on what's going on. and it is this -- that a lot of what we read, a lot of what we end up talking about on cable tv, about these daily headlines, these daily stories, it seems every day we get two or three different eye-popping stories out of washington. there's an element of distraction to all of them. because at the root of this is an astounding fact, according to these intel people, and the former fbi people. and it is this -- that at the root of this, is russia's role in manipulating an election in the united states of america. russia. not our friend, not our ally, russia. still here, still actively pursuing disruption in our political system. and politicians from the president on down, say -- nothing about it each and every day. >> the answer to your question is -- of course, of course the reason he goes after the intel agencies and the media is to soften the ground for whatever is coming. he suspects something is coming and he does not want you to

trust the source, whether it comes from the media or now even the fbi. i would point out it was what, a year ago, a little more than the year ago that the shoe was totally on the other foot. that it was democrats who didn't like the fbi because comey put out the memo that they believe it cost hillary clinton the election. how quickly these things change. of course that's what donald trump is doing. he doesn't want people to believe their own eyes when mueller presents his findings. >> the other reason why millennials are breaking away from republicans as quigley as they are i can't believe ron johnson or devin nunes or any of these people making jack asses of themselves on tv are going to make millennial voters any more likely to say hey, i'm going to trust republicans. >> i don't think this discussion is particularly relevant to most of their lives or inspire them to want to engage in politics. it doesn't mean it's not important to investigate this issue. but it certainly not the sort of thing that people are going to be drawn to the republican party. >> what issue specifically needs to be investigated?

>> i just mean the idea of holding folks accountable. if it turns out that we as a country decide that it is completely inappropriate for folks within the fbi to have personal, political views, whether they are in favor of them or opposed to the president and we decide that's a big deal and we're going to say you cannot be involved at all in an investigation if you have any personal views, if that's the standard we're going to set and that seems to be the standard that republicans in congress want set. >> that's an impossible standard. we would have to have no bias -- >> i agree that's an impossible standard. >> this is something we've known forever. half the c.i.a. went after george w. bush over wmds. half the c.i.a. was outraged that barack obama weighed in on the hillary investigation. people have opinions. >> is it affecting their work? and to the extent that in this memo there's any evidence that suggests that there are folks who are not doing their job effectively, as christopher wray

said, please give me that information so i can act on it. to your question about millennials, i don't think this is the sort of issue that is drawing them to the republican party. >> david ignatius, is there any evidence, is there a shred of evidence? have you seen, this is your beat as much as anybody's in the world -- have you seen any evidence inside the intel community or outside the intel community, that bob mueller or any of his investigators' personal, political beliefs have impacted any part of this investigation? >> i have not. the strange thing is that a lot of this debate, republican series of attacks involves behavior at a time when what the fbi was doing was putting out information about hillary clinton at her most vulnerable moment at the end of the election campaign. and not putting out information about their investigation of donald trump. i mean, it really stands, what

happened on the end. but joe and mika, you would be wrong if you didn't think this is, this is penetrating. it's not just fox news, i collected the four top, four most-read pieces on realclearpolitics last night. here is the headlines. evidence suggest as massive scandal is brewing at the fbi. no choice but to appoint a special second counsel. the fbi is looking guilty as hell in the russia probe, the third. fourth is, the stench at obama's justice department and fbi. that's what the country is reading right now. by a very deliberate effort, as you said, to distract the next round that plays is mueller's actual conversation with trump. that's where we'll be in another week or two. i do think this, we're seeing the fog machine working full blast and it's obviously having an effect. >> and it shows that fox news

and also the russians continued attempts to impact social media. according to the most recent study. the russian bots is working, 43% of americans approve of bob mueller's investigation. 35% disapprove. but look at the independents, 68 democrats, 20% disapprove. look at republicans -- 26, 49. they're creating an echo chamber, an alternate reality. >> and they have changed in the past two years. dramatically. that network is very different network. it's -- yeah. i better just leave it there. >> dramatic change. still ahead, president trump says he can't quite remember whether he asked an fbi official about his political leanings. is the president practicing a potential nonanswer for when bob mueller comes calling? plus president trump offers yet another position on

immigration. this time suggesting d.r.e.a.m.ers can quote morph into citizens. with that breitbart ran the headline "amnesty don." we'll dig into that. plus republican congressman charlie dent and democratic congressman tim ryan join the conversation.

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president trump told reporters yesterday that he is unsure if he asked the then-acting director of the fbi andrew mccabe, whether or not mccabe voted for him in the 2016 election. when they met for a session in the oval office. after the firing of jim comey. >> did you ask mccabe who he voted for? did you ask him that? >> i don't think so. i don't think i did. >> i don't know what's the big

deal with that, because i would ask you who did you vote for? i don't think it's a big deal but i don't remember that. i saw that this morning, i don't remember asking him that question. >> is it possible you did? >> i don't remember asking him that question. >> should mccabe go? >> well mccabe got more than $500,000 from essentially hillary clinton. and is he investigating hillary clinton? >> should he go? >> did anybody here, many of my speeches, when i talked about mccabe, he was the star of my speeches. this isn't now. and i said, the wife got $500,000 from terry. terry is hillary. and yeah -- i mean -- >> do you regret having him as your acting fbi director, then? >> you know what? i keep out of it. you find that hard to believe. i keep out of it. that's the way it fell. he's been there, it's one of those things, but he was the star of many of my speeches, because he got from $500,000 to

$700,000. whatever the number was, got that money for the wife. and you know in virginia, in virginia -- it's very interesting -- in virginia, you don't have to spend the money. so i never checked as to whether or not they spent the money on the campaign. how much of the money did he spend on the campaign? >> so the records through the virginia public access project, show that mccabe's wife spent the funds on ads on tv and radio. also posted his personal correspondence related to the campaign. i'm confused, didn't -- so mccabe was, trump says the star of his campaign. but didn't trump sign off on mccabe being the acting fbi director? after he was president of the united states? a year after those campaign speeches? >> he did.

you have to remember the sequence of events here. trump has been pressing jim comby, the head of the fbi, for expressions of loyalty that comey won't give him. trump asked him, let go of the investigation of mike flynn. comey won't commit to that. trump fires comey. and tells nbc that this was because of the russia investigation and comey's role in it. mccabe then becomes the acting director in comey's place. what does trump do early in this process? he asks mccabe who did you vote for? which is as close to asking him if he's going to be loyal as i can imagine. he says, now he doesn't remember it. but that's not much of a denial. the point is from the beginning there's been this effort to take an organization that prides itself above everything else, on being outside of politics. and make it as political as possible.

that's what i hear fbi people, people who don't like comey, and people all over the map, people who think some of these texts are pretty outrageous, they really are upset by the way in which this nonpolitical law enforcement agency has been dragged every day now, into politics. >> you know, mike again, you go down the checklist, it's very ugly. you have a president who demands loyalty of, from an fbi director, you have a president who then tells that fbi director to drop an investigation against his national security adviser. who he knows, he admits he knows lied to the fbi and committed a crime. so he asks the fbi director to not pursue that crime, that he knows occurred. then he fires that fbi director. then he admits he fired that fbi director, to end the russian probe. then he asks the next acting fbi

director for another version of a loyalty test. asking, did you vote for me? this, children, at home, this is not america. this is not how the fbi works, it's not how -- let's put it all into perspective. if you don't know anything about history, i'm a very old man, about 84 now. ill feel like i'm about 104. 1993, george stephanopoulos and somebody else at the clinton administration had an fbi person come over to the white house. and they talked about a statement that the fbi was putting out. republicans raised holy hell this was the travel-gate scandal. republicans raised holy hell about that for months. just one meeting. just one interaction regarding a statement about travel-gate. and mike, here you have the president of the united states actually trying to end an

investigation where he knows, he admits that he knows a crime took place. and then fires an fbi director, because he would not drop that investigation. and then, demands a loyalty test or at least a loyalty quiz -- this is so out of the realm of what's acceptable in our democracy. it is hard to even put into perspective. because nobody has ever crossed so many lines. >> well actually the perspective is fairly easy to put it into perspective, based on the president's own words, where is my roy cohen. he protected his brother, the president. he references barack obama's attorney taking care of barack obama. he wonders where is my roy cohn. he views the justice department and the fbi clearly as elements of his own political arm. he's looking for his own personal michael cohn.

who is now his personal lawyer, who pays $130,000 allegedly to a prostitute. that's what he's looking for. he's looking for personal loyalty. that's what he's looking for. >> porn star. >> it's so gross. >> but it's, sometimes you let the trump comments fly by and there's so many it's hard to correct them all. when he says that andrew mccabe's wife quote essentially got the money from hillary clinton. it was a combination of terry mcauliffe's superpac, common good va. a little bit of a reach. terry mcauliffe, a friend of the clinton who is ran for campaign in 2008 and the democratic party of virginia that totalled about $675,000. he didn't become deputy director of the fbi, andrew mccabe, until february of 2016, well after her campaign had ended. that's when he had oversight over the hillary investigation. you have to pause and insert facts into some of the comments that the president takes just to remind people.

>> facts get in the way. >> the republicans' timeline is just -- askew. they are focusing on a time when the fbi was focused on hillary clinton. not on donald trump. so all of the going back to -- i have a lot of problems with how the fbi conducted the hillary clinton investigation. and i stated them in real-time. this time period, republicans are obsessing on predates so much of the trump russia investigation. >> it's a conspiracy theory from the republicans that the closer you look at it, rests on sand. it just is not, it doesn't have real effects. the one thing you asked earlier, that troubles serious people who look at the bureau, some of these texts between peter strzok and lisa page, strikes me as inappropriate. strzok was removed from the investigation, as he should have

been there are questions of appearance that every journalist thinks about, and every fbi agent should think about. and there are certain things you should put into texts, and others you shouldn't. i think that people can agree that those were over the line. >> david, they were over the line, they shouldn't have been done, but at the same time, as the talking heads would say, same as it ever was, same as it ever was. i remember being enraged by all the leaks that were coming out of the c.i.a. and the fbi during the beginning of the iraq war. i was enraged and actually warned trump not to take on the intel community, because they said they bled george w. bush dry. a leak here, a leak there. an off-the-record statement -- we're in america. we have people in these agencies that have political opinions. and some of them leak. and they always have.

right? >> they have. and i think the essential point here is that the minute that the fbi leadership became aware of these tweets, they took action to remove people from the positions they were in. it's -- this is now being resold by the republicans, as if they discovered it. but they didn't. they were provided these after-action appropriate action had been taken. >> by the way -- the fbi leaked after barack obama put his hand on the scale, at the beginning of the hillary clinton investigation, guess what? fbi agents leaked to "the new york times" that they were outraged that the president of the united states would say that there was no national security interests involved there. they immediately went and complained about then-president barack obama. >> all right. still ahead, the dollar tanked after comments by treasury secretary steve mnuchin yesterday. and then the white house -- >> why don't you go back to

hollywood. the dollar sunk, to like, at record lows, in like the past three years. because this guy that's involved in funding hollywood movies, is now our treasury secretary. we need a low dollar. guess what, you asked for it, you got it. >> you got your low dollar. >> we'll go live to davos. >> all the dollars that you and your wife posed with? half of them are gong. >> wrap yourself up like a cape? yeah, what was that, by the way. i can't let that one go. i know it's very unimportant. but that was like -- that was incredible. they posed. like -- why? >> anyway the dollar -- >> three-year low, way to go. >> because they have so much money?

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have you seen "absence of malice" yet? >> no irk saw three movies over christmas break. >> "absence of malice"? >> what three movies did you see? >> "all the president's men." >> that's the first time you've seen it? >> yes. i saw "the darkest hour." and i saw "the post."

>> rank those three movies. >> "the post." "all the president's men." "darkest hour." president trump is in davos switzerland for the annual world economic forum. he tweeted his goal for the trip is to quote tell the world how great america is. and america is booming with all i am doing. will only get better. our country is finally winning again. joining us from davos, nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell. kelly, good morning or good afternoon there. what do we expect from the president today? >> well we've already heard that the president according to the u.s. ambassador to switzerland was taken by his helicopter ride from zurich to davos. one of the most beautiful places when you're covering the president that you get to visit. so the setting is ideal. the reception, how this will play out is what we will be

watching. the president's views on matters of trade and nationalism and all of his impulses really go against what typically brings people to davos for the world economic forum. where there is free trade, globalism, very different point of view. today the president will sit down with the prime minister of the united kingdom and benjamin netanyahu, the prime minister of israel. and he'll have behind-the-scenes, not available for press coverage meetings, including a special dinner tonight. a way for the president to connect with some of the international partners who are also elected officials and the business community. got more than a dozen of his cabinet and top officials here as well. tomorrow, the big speech is something to watch. because the president will be bringing what we have heard him describe as his america-first agenda. again, in conflict with a lot of what others who come to this conference are talking about. and at the same time, we will also be watching for how the president relates to the leaders from the african union there are

some reports that there may be some representative who is will leave the president's speech as a sign of protest. because of his much-talked-about controversial comments in the closed-door meeting about immigration a couple of weeks back. you remember that episode. so the president has an opportunity here to try to bring some of the american agenda with him. but he's also got plenty of speed bumps along the way. it's icy in davos and it will be icy politically as well. we have the u.s. ambassador to switzerland. we have that going for us. >> isn't it amazing that the president has to go to davos to meet with theresa may. a couple of weeks ago he canceled his visit to london. >> i believe they didn't want him there. >> criticism about the embassy. >> what's the reception going to be like when he gets there? >> i expect it will be icy. to use the word that kelly used there are so many of our friends overseas who feel as though this is a president who has not

honored those relationships. and yet at the same time, president trump seems to be so eager to improve our relationship with countries that we have not had good relations with, such as russia. so for my perspective, i feel like he's going to get a bad reception there. if only because so much of the campaign is focused on the idea that the people that go to davos are the bad ones, conspiring against voters like you. >> before you leave, as a pollster, give the sort of state of play right now. between republicans and democrats. what's it looking like right now? >> republicans are feeling a little bet they are week than they maybe were a week or two ago. president trump's job approval had ticked up very slightly. it varies and within a very small window. he'll dip down to 38, 37%. it will go back up to closer to 40, 41%. but it stays in the very narrow space, he's toward the top of the space. what republicans should be worried about is the generic ballot question. if the election was held today,

which party do you want controlling congress. republicans have been doing very bad on that question, down by double-digit margins. that spells bad news if the numbers hold heading into november. what i most worry about is then. i'm most worried about the types of numbers. if republicans lose a bunch of seats in the house and senate the types of members we will lo lose, i worry folks that may be rising stars in the party, that is what concerns me about 2018 from a republican perspective. still ahead, much more on the so-called secret society text messages that some top republican lawmakers are latching on to as evidence of a deep-state conspiracy against president trump. the weekly standard's bill kristol figured it out yesterday tweeting "that was a hell of a pro-clinton conspiracy the obama administration, comey and the fbi were engaged in which culminated in comey tipping the election ten days out -- to trump." that's coming up on "morning

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we've been talking about a republican senator from wisconsin making wild claims about american officials subverting the rule of law against the common interest of the country. let's listen. >> last night, the committee voted to advise me to give the defense department information about the communists and defense plans, communists who are there as of this moment. while i felt that was a useless gesture because i knew they had all the information, nevertheless i complied with the request of the committee. i had my office staff call the pentagon last night and ask them if they wouldn't send a man over to get this information. i just received a call and was

informed that as of this moment they have not yet decided whether or not they will accept that information. >> whoa, that's the wrong tape. it's a different republican senator from wisconsin. we'll show you -- we'll get that for you. although you get -- kind of a -- we'll get you john johnson talking about the fbi's secret society. "morning joe" is back in a moment. your brain changes as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown

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we have an informant talking about a group that were holding secret meetings off site. there is so much smoke here, there's so much suspicious. >> let's stop there. a secret society. secret meetings off site of the justice department? >> correct. >> and you have an informant saying that? >> yes. >> did your informant confirm that these off-site meetings took place? >> no, listen, i'd never -- i -- the term "secret society" comes from strzok and page. all i said when i read that, it didn't surprise me because we are the committee that whistle-blowers come to to talk about all kinds of problems throughout the federal government so i had heard of a group of people within the fbi holding secret off-site meetings so i was just kind of connecting the dots, that didn't surprise me when i heard that term but that's strzok and page's term, not mine. >> hold on one second, let me bring in bill kristol. they have informants in the -- inside the fbi that tell them of

secret society meetings where they are planning, sir, for the -- coup d'etat against the president of the united states. and informant tells them there are secret societies, what say you? >> i mean, it's funny but it's sad. you watch the mccarthy clip you showed earlier, it's first time tragedy, second time farce in a way but it's not a farce. this is what strikes me. bannon is gone. the alt-right is discredited but bannonism is winning. look a at the hill republicans, the conservative commentators, they are in the possession of serious conspiracy theorizing paranoia hostility to basic american government institutions that i would have said would be impossible. >> you work at fox news, do you

recognize or would roger ailes recognize what's going on in prime time? >> no. >> i hold roger a little responsible for this but what everyone thought of it seven or eight years ago, it was not fully balanced, there were elements there -- >> there were a lot of bad things of going. >> you're in a different world with what's happening now. we look at john mccarthy but there are many other people. mccarthyism was bigger than mccarthy and the degree to which this paranoia and conspiracy theorizing, demonizing of people has just become routine. ron johnson was a normal republican senator. >> but we -- we joke about it a little bit but it's very serious. he is talking about corruption at the highest levels of the federal bureau of investigation and says they have an informant that tells them there are secret society meetings being held off site to plan for the removal of the president of the united

states of america. that's a united states senator, a sitting united states senator, accusing fbi agents of treason against the united states of america. >> yeah, i mean, fringy web sites have become mainstream fox news -- what fringy web sites once said is now said by fox news hosts. what losing primary candidates who got 8% of the vote in some republican primary somewhere once would have said is now being said by mainstream republican senators so that is what is upsetting. >> david ignatius, it's a virus that is spreading across the media landscape even though they are conspiracy theories and they are false you read the top four most read on real clear politics, right? >> yes. >> do you still have them to

read? >> i do and they're eitanishing to see what's out there. "evidence suggests a massive scandal is brewing at fbi." that's the "new york post." >> but there is no evidence, go ahead. >> no, but this shows the air going go into the balloon. "no choice but to appoint a second special counsel to investigate this business." >> who wrote that? >> i didn't write down -- >> rod rosenstein says there is no reason to put anybody in there. >> to continue, "the fbi is looking guilty as hell in the russia probe." at the very time we think robert mueller is about to interview president trump, here's the machine cranking to say it's the fbi looking guilty. it's the stench at obama's justice department and fbi. so that's what -- those are the

most-read items on a big blog, real clear politics, so this stuff is out there. >> and let's look at those items. >> and russian bots are promoting this. >> right. as was put out on twitter, no fewer than three different anti-mueller narratives fell apart in the last 24 hours. the first, that texts from two agents were deleted to cover up a plot against the president. turns out the glitch impacted thousands of fbi agents not just two. the second, that the fbi had some kind of secret society turns out that was a joke in one text. and the third that devin nunes has important information in his secret memo. turns out he won't even share it with his fellow republicans, let alone the justice department. and what about this informant that ron johnson was talking about? >> who is the informant that ron johnson is talking about? >> the mccarthy accusation. >> one of the worst things about this, the fbi does make mistakes

and there are problems and you want congressional oversight of our executive branch and this discredits legitimate efforts to say wait a second, let's look at this. >> this dirty pool being played by members of the senate and the house and the administration, you're undercutting the foundation of democracy because you're supposed to preserve it and you're using it to deflect from possible crimes committed by the president. >> and we talked about this yesterday, today somewhere in your state, somewhere definitely in your country there are fbi agents going around trying to get intel, trying to get information, trying to break apart terror networks of homegrown terrorists that want to blow up your church. that want to blow up your

synagogue. that want to kill you or your family or other people in your community and it's these fbi agents who stand between you, me, all of us and future terror attacks either by members of isis that infiltrate this country or homegrown terrorists. when these conspiracy theories are spread for political reasons and solely political reasons to protect the president who is not worth your protection with your lies, you are only making it more difficult for our law enforcement officers to protect your family and mine against islamic terrorism and homegrown terrorism that you supposedly fear so much. so just stop it. . get out of their way. let them do their jobs and let the chips fall where they may. if mueller overreaches, we will be the first to say so.

the press will be the first to somed say so. just stop with your conspiracy theories because you are making america less safe. >> i hope it's worth it to you. also still with us is politics editor for the daily beast, sam stein. and political reporter for the "washington post" and moderator of "washington week" on pbs, robert costa joins the conversation. good to have you on board. the trump justice department is warning the republican chairman of the house intelligence committee against releasing an unreviewed classified memo alleging fbi abuses and political bias in its russia investigations. the letter to congressman devin nunes renews the request by fbi director chris ray that the chairman share the memo with the justice department for review either to them or the fbi's inspector general since they were unaware of the wrongdoing and would like to investigate

first. the letter states it would be extraordinarily reckless to release the classified memo who has been urged by the president's son, donald trump jr. as well as russian bots according to the german martial fund, a group that tracks their activity. >> so there's don jr. again teaming up with the russians. way to go and suggesting something your own ferret's justice department said would be extraordinarily reckless and would also, of course; put our officials in danger. good on you. >> good for the family. >> nbc news is also reporting nunes is resistant to share the memo we have been senate republican intelligence committee chairman richard burr. he won't even share it with his republican counterpart. >> so you can just throw stuff out there. >> this is a man who participated in the clown show earlier this year he he put on. his own three-ring circus claiming he had important information about unmasking he

had to take to the white house, he was lying to the press when he was saying that because he had no information. he runs to the white house to try to get information from the white house and when they give him information he goes out and has a press conference. much ado about nothing, an absolute clown show. bob costa, let me ask you, if you could, best as you can, give us a reading. what's the barometer of republicans on the hill looking at ron johnson, for instance, claiming there is a secret society aimed at launching a coup against the president. devin nunes trying to release memos that russian bots want him to release, russian intelligence services want him to release but that trump's own justice department says that would be dangerous. what are rank-and-file republicans thinking of this madness? >> based on my reporting at the capitol, joe, it depends on which side of the capitol you're at. house republicans are starting

to share the nunes perspective and they are really a tight-knit group when it comes to this issue about the memo talking to the president with the freedom caucus. >> they were on the phone with him this week. mean while if the senate, senate republicans are much more in the richard brr caurr camp, they're of different kinds of questions of the country's justice department and the mueller probe and they are wary of the republican party moving to its right or whatever you want to call it on this issue and raising a clamor about these issues. >> mike, they're in such a bubble. i remember going to a state of the union several years ago and i talked to a guy that i served with who was a reasonal rational person that would sit in the cloak room and be reasonable and

rational. then a couple years later he was saying benghazi was the secret to everything, obama was going to be impeached, hillary clinton would never be elected, that benghazi was going to bring down every democrat in washington, d.c. and i just stared at him and i said, dude, you've been inside this chamber too long. get out of the bubble. but according to bob's reporting, you've got the house in that bubble, why does it matter? because it will make them even more vulnerable in 2018. with >> within your party -- >> former party. >> former party. a handful of republicans have managed to inject a fever into the body plolitic and a fehr tht seems to be growing. now you have a republican party largely in the house. consider this -- an assistant attorney general of the united states, steven boyd, writes a letter er tter to devin nunes

the justice department's view, the release of this memo, this self--created memo by devin nunes would be extraordinarily reckless, extraordinarily reckless. he's a republican appointee, steven boyd, the assistant attorney general. you have devin nunes refusing dick burr's request to see the memo. >> republican intel chairman from north carolina. >> yes, refusing to hand it over. so it is now beyond the pale. just beyond the pale. >> and what is the mem kno? it's devin nunes personal four-page summary of his investigation of the fbi and the justice department and their use of fisa, that's his view of what happened, as adam schiff, suggested, cherry picked and he won't show it to richard burr who would like to review it before it's declassified. let me play this soundbite. president trump said there was no collusion between his campaign and russia. here's what he said yesterday when asked how he defines collusion.

>> reporter: how do you define collusion? maggie asked this were. >> you'll define it for me, but i can tell you, there's no collusion. i couldn't have cared less about russians having to do with my campaign. the fact is -- you people won't say this, but i'll say it -- i was a much better candidate than her. you always say she was a bad candidate, you never say i was a good candidate. i was one of the greatest candidates, nobody else would have beaten the clinton machine as crooked as it was but i was a great candidate. someday you'll say that. >> that's really sad. >> gets to the heart of the matter. >> i couldn't have cared less about russians having to do with my campaign is what he said. >> he said after claiming no russians were involved with his campaign, sam stein, now he's saying those russians involved in my campaign? i couldn't have cared less about him. >> it's like the tapes, the watergate tapes except as ari mel melber pointed out, he just says it on tv.

>> lester holt, i fired him to stop the investigation. >> no collusion, obstruction. >> hey, russian foreign minister and ambassador to the united states from russia, i got rid of that nutjob, it will take pressure off of us. it's all there, sam. >> it's very dizzying because he said he would testify under oath and now he won't. it's tough to keep track of where his head is at any given moment. people say it's by design or not but there's something to be said about the fact that we've spent on this show like an hour and a half now almost cleaning up misconceptions and conspiracy theories and trying to correct records just to get back to an agreed upon idea of what the truth is. if that's where we are everyday in our political conversationings, imagine how difficult it is for the casual observer of politics to figure out what the hell is going on. and that is pernicious. we have a public that is willfully being uninformaled by

i its elected officials. we talked about nunes in the last ten minutes or so, but where we're missing the point is it's not just nunes, paul ryan, the speaker of the house as you alluded to, joe, has a lot of control over what devin nunes can and cannot do. if paul ryan wanted to clamp down on this he could. but if you ask paul ryan's office what they feel about this memo, they are largely deferential to what nunes wants to do here. >> they're more deferential to nunes than the justice department or the fbi who say this would cause considerable damage? >> as of yesterday when the daily beast was talking to paul ryan's office they were deferential to how nunes wanted to handle this. they called it his jurisdiction. now you can make the case he's being differential to the intelligence committee chairman.

but you know having served in the house that if the speaker wants to put the clamps on something, he can. >> donald trump can. look, the steven boyd memo is very important. this is the justice department officially saying this. he's the assistant attorney general but he only sends that memo if it's cleared by the attorney general himself and run by the white house chief of staff and counsel. that's a major statement by the administration that it would be -- what did he say? extraordinarily reckless? where's trump? trump has tweeted that it should come out. sarah huckabee sanders implied they wanted it to come out. will trump back up his own justice department against releasing something that they say it would be reckless to release or is he going to pander to people who -- is trump going to be a serious president or is he going to be a demagogue on this issue? >> demagogue. >> good question. >> the president's inability yesterday, he didn't want him to find collusion, he wanted to talk about the legitimacy of his

own election. according to your sources, your reporting, is it bedesign or not that he does this? is it a distraction? is it just he changes his mind every 30 seconds? >> in his comments yesterday at the white house, the president defined his actions, his conduct as "fighting back" and this is kind of the language you're starting to see within the republican party prepared for either the release in this memo or an interview by the president with robert mueller. in spite of civic fabric at risk of being torn in this entire experience, this republican party, this white house see this is as political war and when it comes to collusion questions or possible obstruction questions they were approaching it with a war-like mentality. >> so, bob, unlike republicans to watergate who understood the president had broken the law, you're saying these republicans have decided they're going to go down with donald trump

regardless of what he did? they're going to war with the fbi? >> if you look at the most critical voices in the republican party, senator bob corker after months ago calling the president and the white house adult day care, he's been praising the president's volatility on foreign policy. senate republicans who have broken with the president rallied behind his tax cut. there is not a goldwater 1974 type moment yet with the republicans going to the white house and raising serious concerns about the russia probe or the federal investigation. if anything i've heard in my reporting a change of tune. a chorus with this president and with this white house. >> robert costa, bill kristol, thank you for being on the show this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll be joined by two lawmakers from different sides of the aisle, republican congressman charlie dent and democratic congressman tim ryan. plus, a new threat against sanctuary cities by the administration has sparked a fight with mayors across the country. mayor mitch landrieu was part of

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the justice department announced it would subpoena 23 jurisdictions, so-called sanctuary cities, if they do not provide documents to show that they have not kept information from federal immigration authorities. the announcement sparked backlash from mayors and local authorities across the country. new york city mayor bill de blasio tweeted the justice department's move was a "racist assault on our immigrant communities." in response to the announcement, the u.s. conference of mayors called off its meeting with president trump at the white house. joining us is one of the mayors who refused to meet with the president yesterday, the democratic mayor of new orleans and the president of the u.s. conversation of mayors, mitch

landrieu. always good to talk with you. thank you for coming on. you knew president trump's position on sanctuary cities, so what happened yesterday that caused you to call off the meeting. >> it was weird. i'm in washington, d.c. with our nation's mayors and we have been negotiating with the white house for a couple days and ostensibly it was about infrastructure and jobs and the plethora of issues mayors are concerned about. about an hour before we were going to go into what we thought was going to be a constructive discussion the white house and department of justice decided to drop a bomb on 23 mayors, some of whom were supposed to be in that meeting, about a subject that we weren't supposed to talk about that, of course, you know is very volatile and is part of the immigration debate. i'd like to make a couple points. first of all, if congress and the president would do their job and get comprehensive immigration reform done, the may yo mayors wouldn't be in the middle of this. second, the white house has had a difficult job is having a transparent and reasonable

discussion about anything. and third it's bad manners to invite somebody for lunch to have a discussion about one thing and smack them over the head before they walk in the door. so it would have been a destructive meeting. it was wiser for that meeting to take place at another time. plus i've met with the attorney general on this issue on behalf of the mayors of america and it's not productive. >> the white house has been clear about sanctuary cities, couldn't you have gone through the meeting and tackled that issue and also gotten to your infrastructure? some people view this as a stunt? >> we viewed it as a stunt. we thought what the white house was trying to do was to somehow bring the mayors into the immigration debate that they had that was part of the shutdown of the government. mayors don't have time for political students. our number one priority is to keep our communities safe. on the sanctuary city issue, people need to understand that

the police chiefs of america and our federal folks with work with everyday talk about building a relationship between the people in the community and the police officers and if that thing is severed crime goes up, not down so it was very troubling to us because we look forward to having a constructive discussion about the infrastructure bill and it wasn't going to be. we'll be happy to meet with the president and his staff any time they want to have a constructive discussion and solve the problems of america but we don't want to be used as political problems. >> so for people who aren't familiar with sanctuary cities and what the justice department and this attorney general wants cities to comply with, what does the justice department want new orleans -- you're the full time mayor of new orleans, you don't go home, you're may 24 hours a day. >> 24/365. >> what do they want you do? >> here's the problem, it's very unclear and the attorney general himself cannot define what a

sanctuary city is so they keep moving the ball. everything they've asked for, cities have done. every time we get a grant from the federal government, mayors are obligated to sign an attestation clause that we're in compliance with the law and we have done that. new orleans wasn't on that list yesterday but every one of those mayors signed an attestation clause that they provided the information the attorney general wanted so if the attorney general and homeland security would put a definition down on the paper, we can help them. we work with i.c.e. all the time in our communities but one thing we won't do is let our police departments become civil deportation forces for i.c.e. that's what they do. we keep the community safe. i'll make it one antidote so people understand this. if a woman is raped and calls the police and the police show up, the if first thing they ask her is what her immigration status is and introduce her to the i.c.e. officer, she won't report that crime and the rapist will go free. that's what police officers are facing everyday and we have to keep everybody safe irrespective of immigration status because

our job is to keep the streets safe. the trump administration has cut funding for homeland security, they've cut funding for police departments across america, they've excoriate it had fbi and they're demeaning our police chiefs and the mayors are sending a simple message back that we're the warriors on the ground and we think that's counterproductive so if you want to have a good discussion, do it. but the best thing would be for congress and the president to pass comprehensive immigration reform, deal with daca, not put sanctuary cities in that mix because it's going confuse things. >> you've got four months left on the job if my math is right. >> about 106 days. >> and if my math is also right, you're a relatively young man with a lot of energy still. there are a lot of people who looked at you and the job you've done in new orleans and that speech you gave last year about taking down the monuments in the city of new orleans which was a speech about race and where we are in america and our history, they've hoped for higher things for you. what are you planning on when you leave office in may?

is running for president something you might look at? >> let me say a couple things. i'm thankful to the people of america for everything they did to help a great american city find herself again after some catastrophic losses. secondly, race in america is our achilles heel and unless we confront it directly we won't be able to move forward because we can't go forward if we don't go forward together. i'm flattered people think that i can find higher office. i don't have any intention of doing that right now and i'm not intending to run for president. >> but it's something you'd look at? we have time coming in may. >> well, evidently in politics you never say never, you never say no but i'm not going to run for president. >> the president of the u.s. conference of mayors, mayor mitch landrieu, thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me, appreciate it. >> so he's running? >> he's got -- i think he's 57 years old, done a good job. >> young guy. >> got a future. >> you know who's got a future. that eric garcetti. people talk about him running for president.

he -- boy, he's an attractive candidate. >> not only is he attractive -- >> and i'm not even talking about his looks. i'm not being sexist. >> but guys like mitch landrieu, mayors of cities who function 24 -- you can't run from the problems. you have to address the problems when you're mayor, unlike senators or congressmen. you have to address problems. >> still ahead on "morning joe," will we see another government shutdown two weeks from today? we'll ask republican congressman charlie dent and democratic congressman tim ryan. "morning joe" will be right back. then i realized something was missing... me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis.

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all right. also in yesterday's reporters scrum, president trump said he's open to a pathway to citizenship for immigrants brought to the u.s. illegally as children. >> reporter: do you want citizenship for dreamers? >> we're going morph into it. it's going to happen at some point in the future, i what does that mean? >> over a period of 10 to 12 years, somebody does a great job, they've worked hard, it gives incentive to do a great job, but they've worked hard, they've done terrifically whether they have a little company or whether they work, whatever they're doing, if they do a great job, i think it's a

nice thing to have the incentive of after a period of years being able to become a citizen. >> so the president prefers -- the president says right there that dreamers have the pathway to citizenship. >> president trump reiterated he would insist on an end to the diversity lottery system calling it broken. he says he wants $25 billion for a border wall with mexico and he wants to end chain migration but would work to allow immediate families to stay together. the white house says it will release a framework for immigration reform on monday. >> let's stop right there. that -- well, let's bring in a member of the house appropriations committees democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio. >> hi, tim. >> what he talked about there sounds like the makings of a deal that we were seeing the outlines of you talk about chain migration. >> it always sounds so good. >> republicans and moderate democrats would maybe say okay,

maybe we don't end chain migration but keep it to immediate families. that sounds reasonable to me, i'm sure people would be afe offended that it doesn't extend further to that. but that's a deal that can be done, ending the lottery system, immediate families, making it more based on qualifications to come to the united states but he's going further than i've ever heard him suggest and he's talking about a pathway to citizenship for d.r.e.a.m.ers in exchange for the wall. is that a deal that you think can passed the house? >> well, this is a deal with the 1985 donald trump which is much easier to negotiate with than the 2017/2018 donald trump. >> and also the january 24, 2018 donald trump, because he said it yesterday. >> 7:37 in the morning. >> this is lindsey's tuesday trump. >> i think that's the making of

a deal. clearly the republicans control the house, they control the senate so they'll get a good chunk of what they want, the president will get a good chunk of what he wants. >> are you ready to put the ball that there or money that could be appropriated for a wall so president trump could say i got the wall, whatever that means for border security? >> i would like to see the experts tell us what we need as far as border security and in my estimation when 90% of the drugs -- we were talking about the opiate crisis. 90% of the drugs coming into the country come through the port of entry so we need more border patrol on those ports of entry because that -- those are where the drugs are coming in. now we will need fencing and other things but let the experts tell us what we need, what's going on in ohio or new hampshire, we have to stop the drugs from coming in. that's not a wall, that's border patrol. >> we just heard the president of the united states. do you believe him?

>> no. i hate to say it, i don't take any satisfaction in saying that but clearly everybody has experienced him over the last year, two years, says one thing one day, it's the complete opposite the next day. until something is inked and signed, off question. >> talk about the degree in negotiating, dealing with the art of the deal when you don't believe the guy on the other side of the table. >> trust is everything. you're going to have charlie dent here who is a noble republican who i disagree with and when charlie dent gives you his word, take it to the bank. you can't function as a democracy without some level of trust. i can go on "morning joe" and they can go on fox news and people can beat each other up but at the end of the day your word has to mean something and that is 40-year track of him not keeping his word to labor union folks in atlantic city he never paid, small business people he never paid, those people he discriminated against over the

years oz is he has a career of not keeping his word and that makes it tough to make deals with them. >> sam stein? >> the interesting part of the trump state was the number ten to 12 years. because i understand it that is the timeline in the graham-durbin legislation for a pathway to citizenship. so it sounds as if i'm reading between lines as if he was echoing legislation put in front of him. that's not the question for the congressman. the question i have is democrats help fad sied facilitate -- you participated in the shutting down of the government over this issue. do you think that your party has hurt itself in terms of the negotiation standpoint in doing that and then reopening the government three days later? perhaps your bluff was called dorr you go into february 8 able to do something like that again in order to get this big

immigration deal. >> i think it hurt us. we went in as a party without a plan, without a strategy on how we were going to get out or what the end game was so we lost before it started in the sense that we weren't prepared in my estimation to figure out what it is we wanted, what did our senators who had to run for reelection, what could they handle? so at the end of the day it damaged our ability to get it done and i don't think we build a big enough coalition. i thought when the government shut down under bill clinton and he had two or three things he was saying "they're going cut medicare, they're going to cut medicaid and they're going to gut the environment." that's the consistent message that played across the country. we were talking about the d.r.e.a.m.ers. there's also truck drivers

losing their pensions, guys who have spent 40 years driving trucks missing baseball games and soccer matches for their kids and birthday parties, their pension will go from $3, 500 a month to $1500 a month. those men and women should have been a part of the negotiations. coal miners who are losing their pension, they should have been part of the negotiations, the opiate issue where we need funding. we should have standing on a stage with the d.r.e.a.m.ers, the teamsters, the coal miners and people who need addiction treatment and recovery. now you have a national coalition of people and say if you want to fight us and shut down the government, people who are getting their pension and d.r.e.a.m.ers and we're hanging together. >> congressman tim ryan, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> you heard congressman ryan say he doesn't believe the president when it comes to what he said about immigration. up next, we'll ask republican congressman charlie dent whether he believes trump. whoooo.

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so talk about the degree of difficulty in negotiating dealing with the art of the deal

when you don't believe the guy on the other side of the table. >> well, trust is everything in the negotiations. you'll have charlie dent here who's a noble republican who i disagree with who when charlie dent gives you his word, take it to the bank. there's a lot of senators who are the same way. >> you can't function as a democracy without some level of trust. they can go on fox news and i can go on "morning joe" but at the end of the day, you have to trust each other. this goes way back, the small business people he never paid, the the small business people he discriminated against, he has a career of not keeping his word. that makes it tough to keep your word. >> we begin a new segment on "morning joe" called "three minutes ago" we we take something that was thread on our show three minutes ago and spend the next 15 minutes reviewing it. willie, three minutes ago the

congressman said that. what say you? >> he sure did. by the way, he's absolutely right not to trust what donald trump -- don't you think donald trump said yes, pathway to citizenship for d.r.e.a.m.ers, got back to white house and stephen miller and others said "mr. president, this is not what we believe." >> his 32-year-old boss told him you cannot do that. let's bring in charlie dent of pennsylvania. charlie -- >> how do you do this, charlie? >> always great to see you. i want to read to you what lindsey graham said after the president made those surprising and hopeful remarks. he said this statement represents presidential leadership on immigration that will allow us to solve a difficult problem, appreciate president trump making it clear that he supports a path to citizenship for daca recipients. a path to citizenship would surprise people in the republican caucus in the house but that's a starting point, is it not, for some negotiations for all sides in getting an

immigration deal? >> yeah, joe, and mika, yes, it is. first, let me say this, we can absolutely pass a bipartisan bicameral daca deal with border security. there will be some kind of a pathway to citizenship for these young people. there's no question about this. this is within reach. the real challenge for us on this daca issue is going to be the house. once the senate passes a bill -- and i believe they will -- the house is going to have to take up that bill. right now the house energy is spent trying to pass a republican-only daca bill which is a fantasy. it has no chance of passing the senate and near zero chance of passing the house so we have to get serious and when the bill comes over from the senate, we need to take it up, whether we have a majority or not to vote for it, we have to take it up and do what needs to be done and send it to the president. >> so obviously there is the formerly called hastert rule, i'm not sure what it's called now, that you don't put anything on the floor that doesn't have the majority of republican

votes. if that rule wsh in place, this bill would be dead on arrival, do you suppose this is an instance where the president needs to get actively involved, tell paul ryan put the bill on if this is in fact what the outline looks like and then if paul ryan does that, is that something that passes the house easily? >> if a bill comes over from the senate with bipartisan support, i believe it will have more than adequate votes to pass the house of representatives. the question right now is what kind of bill will the president sign? still unclear where the president is. a statement yesterday that you referred to in the leadup. we need to know where the president is. regardless we need to sends the president a bill and make him decide. >> willie geist on another matter. so many republican colleagues suggesting there's a secret society at the justice department among fbi officials that they meet offsite and plot

i guess is theory goes the coup of the president of the united states. do you believe there's a secret society in the fbi. >> no, i do not believe there's an ill lum knotty at the fbi. we have members and others. i'm tell you what, we are the party, we have been the party traditionally of law enforcement. the state and local level and also at the federal level. we were mortified a couple years ago when going against police. now dealing with a party and ourselves suggesting that many people of the fbi are not as professional as they ought to

be. mr. ray is a republican apo appointee of mr. trump. i never heard of administration attacking his own government. that's essentially what's happening and my colleagues ought to cease and desist. they're out there put ting they're lives on the line every day. counterterrorism operation and crime and all sorts of issues. a lot of fbi agents in my district. they can tell you stories. >> congressman, you are now a free man. not running for re-election. we were talking about immigration bills, potential votes in the senate and the house upcoming in a couple of weeks perhaps and you keep hearing dire predictions about

any vote coming out of the house of representatives on any immigration bill. largely because of the freedom caucus and i was watching tv the other night, and the guy who doesn't own a coat from ohio or gym jordan, i don't know what the deal is there. >> he's busy mike. >> that particular group, the freedom caucus, seem to be concentrating on killing any immigration bill that comes over from the senate so what's going to happen with a bill that comes over from the senate giving the view of the small number who can tip a bill? >> this will be a test for the republican leadership. our leadership will be under tremendous pressure to bring up a bill, bipartisan daca border security bill from the senate. they'll have to bring it up notwithstanding whatever noise they're going to hear from some of our members. since you mentioned freedom, on the way over here this morning, i heard philadelphia freedom. i'm an eagles fan.

i'm psyched. you mentioned jim george from ohio. also mention tim ryan. the browns had a perfect season this year. and i just had to get that off my chest. >> understand. >> not even here to defend himself. >> i like the eagles too. you got to confront number 12 out there in minneapolis. i think he's going to have a tough time. he's going to have a tough time. we're haready for this. >> congressman, thank you very much for being on the show. >> thanks congressman. >> still ahead more on top republicans seizing on a text message that mentions a secret society. all to wage a war against the so-called deep state conspiracy against president trump. we now know the actual content of that text message on which they were basing that claim and it's far from the smoking gun. we'll show it to your. morning joe is coming right back. growing up, we were german.

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would you be willing to speak under oath. >> 100%. when they have no collusion and nobody has found any collusion at any level, it seems unlikely that you'd even have an interview. >> to reach a higher standard, you would do it under oath. >> absolutely. >> if president trump can stick

to his story when simply talking about an interview, what's going to happen when he goes one-on-one with bob mueller. that should be interesting. meanwhile, three separate anti-mueller narratives pushed by the president's allies collapse yesterday on capitol hill. welcome back to "morning joe" on this thursday, january 25. back with us nbc contributor mike barnicle. columnist at the washington examiner. columnist and associate at "the washington post" david ignatius and politics editor for the daily beast, sam stein. >> unbelievable. i still am trying to wrap my -- i'm still trying to wrap my arms around the fact that a united states senator from wisconsin would talk about the existence of a secret society inside the fbi that was trying to launch a

coup d'etat against the president of the united states. then we find out it is one text that is a joke. >> right. is there a recall process for united states senator from wisconsin? because people, not only around this country, but our enemies across the world heard a sitting united states senator say that he believed there was a secret society inside the federal bureau of investigations that was planning a coup d'etat against it will united states president. people are conspiracy theories -- it used to be liberals that attacked law enforcement officers and we

conservatives were proud to defend the fbi and the cia and the people who we believed defend us. now it is republicans that are slandering and slurring the fbi at every turn. >> with ron johnson clearly one of two things. either he is such limited intellect that he couldn't pick up upon reading those text messages that it was a joke in the aftermath of the election. right after the election. or it's with malicious intent that he and others have combined. >> who are the others. >> you had trey gowdy and who was he standing next to talking about the secret society? a secret society we got to look into it. >> who was it. >> you have elements of people on cable networks with an effort to destroy the hope, the trust people have in the fbi.

>> we're kind of backing into everything here, don't you th k think. gave a speech about a conspiracy and secret society that said i don't know if it's true. if you don't know it's true, don't throw that out there. they're putting donald trump ahead of the country. for what donald trump doesn't care about them. they're getting into a fox hole with a guy who will turn and as soon as he gets the chance. >> he's going to leave washington mika and when he leaves washington, the music is going to stop. and they're going to be a lot of fbi agents and there are going to be a lot of conservatives and a lot of republican saying, wait, you did what? why? to defend donald trump. you claimed a you d'etat was being undertaking and you based it on a joke in a text and you let people believe for 24 hours. i know you have to get to devin

nunez and what he's done. he's trying to release a memo that the justice department doesn't want released, that the fbi doesn't want released. wait for it. wait for it. the russians are actually with the russian bottoms going hashtag release the memo while donald trump's own justice department is saying if you release that memo, the context of which you don't know about, you will damage united states intel gathering. and yet, devin nunez is not listening to justice. he's not listening to the law enforcement officers. he's following the russians. and their bottoms. >> three republican members of congress, each of whom share powerful committees on capitol hill, ran to the cameras earlier this week seemingly in a panic over secret societies. missing text messages, and

allegations of wrong doing in the justice department. >> it is no coincidence in my opinion that we're missing text that run from when the russia investigation was launched right up to the point where you have the mueller investigation being launched. >> what's missing is important, but also what's there is important. it is manifest bias. not just against trump, but against his kids, against his business interest. there's a text where they hope the trump hotel fails. that is a level of bias that you rarely see and you never see from law enforcement officers. >> what this is all about is further evidence, more than bias, but corruption at the highest level of the fbi and credit society. we have informant talking about a group holding secret meetings

offsite. >> a secret society, a secret meetings offsite of the justice department. you have an informant saying that. this is not a distraction. again. this is bias potentially corruption at the highest levels of the fbi. that is now investigating and by the way, robert mueller used to run the fbi. he is no position to do an investigation over this kind of misconduct. i think at this point in time, we probably should be looking at a special counsel to undertake this investigation. >> so willie, from his secret society, because robert mueller bravely ran the federal bur rea of investigation through the most harrowing domestic

challenge of our time, 9/11, and because he did so admirably, ron johnson is saying that this vietnam highly decorated vietnam war hero is unqualified. bob mueller used to run the fbi. therefore bob is corrupt. the jouft come and the results of his finding of the investigation will in some way be corrupt. be based on a text about a secret society. you had john rat cliff you mentioned the republican from texas. he said we learned today of information of a secret society. i'm not saying that actually happened, but then why are they putting that out there. if you have evidence of something happened. by all means tell us about it. tell the country. if you don't know what happened and you're speculating and just throwing mud at the fbi, you got to be more careful. >> slurring the fbi. >> separate congressional source

has provided nbc news with the passenger between fbi lawyer lisa page and agent peter struck romantically involved and discussed politics. sent within hours after trump won the presidency. it shows struck and page expressing concern in text about what lies aide. quote seems kind of depressing. earlier allegations. watch him. >> did your informant confirm that these offside meetings took place. >> no, listen. i never -- i the terms secret society comes from strong and page. we are the committee that whistle blowers come to talk about all kinds of problems throughout the federal government. i had heard of a group of people within the fbi holding secret offsite meetings. i was connecting the dots.

that didn't surprise me when i heard the terms. >> david ignatius, the conspiracy theories that are swirling around the fbi, the attacks, united states senator suggesting there was, quote, corruption at the highest levels of the fbi and that robert mueller is unqualified for the position, which he holds several other attacks happening yesterday. the same day these republicans find out that robert mueller wants to interview donald trump. can you talk about speaking of corrosive, just the corrosive affect that this has not only the united states, but also across the world. >> i've been talking to former fbi officials, a few current fbi officials in the last weeks. this is really taking a toll. they feel like they're being

public target, their professionalism which is what they care about most is being attacked. if you're the fbi, your one rule is stay out of politics. every day they get dragged deeper. you just have to think about what's going on here. the fbi has been asked to investigate a conspiracy by our principle foreign adversary russia to metal in our elections and to protect the president in that investigation republicans are now alleging a conspiracy inside the fbi that if you listen to them, is a treasonous conspiracy against the country. extraordinary charge. the best thing that happened yesterday was the department of justice, trump's department of justice sent a letter to the house intelligence committee saying the attempt to disseminate this material without having it reviewed by the fbi would be extraordinarily

reckless. those are his words. and further that on the key area these republicans have been alleging conspiratorial behavior involving the completion of warrants that's what is in the memo that nunez is trying to circulate, that the justice department finds no evidence, is not aware of any wrongdoing in the completion of that process. so you have the bureaucracy thank goodness in a time when people are trying to intimidate them. pushing back, speaking out, speaking for the department of justice, the integrity of the people there. that was one of the good events yesterday. campaign by johnson and the others, extraordinary. >> still ahead on morning joe, even if republicans back off wild allegations against the fbi, the seeds of doubt they planted may already be taking root. david ignatius has more on how the american public is digesting the smears against the justice department. first u bill karins with a check

on the forecast. chilly forecast. temperatures warm up dramatically in the middle of the country and east coast. all the problems are now on the west coast. not fun in northern new england. here's the rain and snow that moved into central california last night. decedent snow around interstate 80. new storm coming on the west coast. that's the theme. one storm into another. eventually over the weekend and next week worry about the rivers in the pacific northwest. here comes the big storm. move in from the pacific friday night to saturday. bring heavy shot of rain. high elevation mountain snow with it. by the time that's done on sunday to monday. a lot of the rivers will reach flood stages. especially in the olympics and cascades of washington state. storm now currently on the west coast will move to the east. this is saturday. plans in the southeast, looks like a rainy saturday. louisiana, mississippi. light rain up in ohio valley. 8:00 p.m. on saturday. rain arriving from pittsburg and buffalo.

that steadier rain we track that right into sunday through the southeast. 11:00 a.m. sunday. light soaking rain over areas of north carolina right through the mid atlantic. d.c. to new york. northern new england clears out sunday afternoon. again, 5050 weekend for a lot of people. where you're going to have one nice day and the other day is going to be a wet day to get some of those errands done inside. new york city, cold 24 to 36 hours. like a lot of the east coast, a nice warmup coming for your friday and saturday afternoon. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.

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that letter to congressman devin nunez nez renews the requ to share with the justice department for review for them or fbi inspector general since they were unaware of the

wrongdoing it alleges and would like to investigate first. letter states it would be extrooe extraordinarily reckless to release a classified memo according to the german mar sth shall fund a group that tracks activity. >> don junior and russian bottoms want -- obviously this means the russian intelligence services, want us to release a highly classified memo and republicans, devin nunez, paul ryan is the one that put him there. paul ryan is the person who is responsible for absolutely everything that devin nunez does. paul ryan. >> so nbc news reports that nunez has resisted sharing the memo even with the senate intelligence committee chairman richard burr. last night on msnbc all in,

ranking democratic adam shift revealed how little the house intelligence committee members care about what is actually in the document. >> what was so astounding to me about the fbi doj letter it reveals for the first time chairman nunez didn't even read the underlying materials. after making all this fuss and conspiracy, he didn't even bother to take the time to read the materials that he was cha t characterizing in this memo. the only two members who read the materials are myself and trey gowdy. bear in mind, my gowdy brought us endless conspiracy theories. none proved to be true. when i moved in the committee at the time the republicans voted to provide this flawed document to the house, i made a motion to allow the members to read the underlying materials before they voted on characterizing them in such a distorted fashion.

they voted that down. i moved to let the fbi and department of justice. >> they chose to not allow to read the actual underlying materials that are issue that provide the ingredients for the memo. they actively chose to not read that stuff. >> that's exactly right. to a person the republican members voted against allowing themselves to read the underlying materials they were characterizi characterizing. >> have you seen any evidence inside the intel community or outside the intel community that bob mueller or any of his investigators, personal, political believes, have impacted any part of this investigation. >> i have not. the strange thing is that a lot of this debate, republican series of attacks, involves behavior at a time when the fbi

when what the fbi was doing was putting on information about hillary clinton at the most vulnerable moment at the end of election campaign and not putting out information about their investigation of donald trump. i mean, it really stands. what happened on the end, but joe and mika you would be wrong if you didn't think this was penetrating. it's not just facts i collected the four top, four most read pieces on real clear politics last night. hear are the hynes, evidence suggest massive scandal brewing at fbi. no choice, but to appoint second special counsel. second most read. fbi is looking guilty as hell in the russia probe. that's the third. fourth is the stench at obama's justice department and fbi. that is what the country is reading right now by a very deliberate effort as you said to distract the next round that plays is mueller's actual conversation with trump.

that's where we will be in ooin another week or two. i do think we're seeing the fog machine working full blast and obviously having an effect. >> coming up on "morning joe," president trump says he doesn't know why it's such a big deal for him to probe fbi officials about how they voted in the presidential election. we'll explain why that might be inappropriate at the very least. next on morning joe. why make something this intelligent... (engine starting up) ...when it can get by on looks alone? why create something that stands out, when everyone expects you to fit in? it's simple. you can build a car,

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asking mccabe whether or not he voted for him when they met for a get to know you session in the oval office after the firing of james comey. >> did you ask him who he voted for. >> i don't think so. >> you didn't. >> no, i don't think i did. >> i don't know what's the big deal with that because i would ask you, who did you vote for? i don't think it's a big deal, but i don't remember that i saw this this morning. i don't remember asking him that question. >> is it possible. >> i don't remember. >> should mccabe go.

>> mccabe got more than $500,000 from essentially hillary clinton. and is he investigating hillary clinton? >> should he go. >> do you remember did anybody here, many of my speeches where i talked about mccabe. he was the star of my speech. this isn't now. i said a man who was more or less in charge of her -- the wife got $500,000. from terry. terry is hillary. >> you know what, i keep out of it. yud find that hard to believe. i keep out of it. that's the way it fell. he's been there. it's one of those things. he was the star of many of my speeches. he got from 5$5-700,000. got that money. in virginia. very interesting. wait. in virginia, you don't have to spend the money. so i never check eed as to whetr

or not they spent the money on the campaign. how much of the money did you spend on the campaign. >> records from virginia public access do show mccabe's wife sent the entirety of the funds, more than $1 million on tv and radio. mccabe immediately sought guidance on conflict of interest and sought protocol. i'm confused. mccabe was trump says the start of his campaign. didn't trump sign off on mccabe being the acting fbi director a year after those campaign speeches. >> he did. you have to remember the sgens sequence of events here. trump has been pressing jerome the head of the fbi for expressions of loyalty that comey won't give him. trump asks him, let go of the

information of mime flynn. comey won't commit to that. trump fires comey and telling nbc that this was because of the russia investigation and comey's role in it. mccabe then becomes the acting director in comey's place. what is trump do very early in this process? he asked mccabe, who did you vote for. which is as close to asking him if he's going to be loyal as i can imagine. he says now he doesn't remember. that's not much of a denial. the point is from the beginning there has been an effort to pride itself on everything else being outside of politics and make it as politic as possible. that's what i hear fbi people. people who don't like comey and people all over the map who think some of these texts are outrageous are upset by the way in which this knob political law

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come into the united states. we have plenty of money, but i don't think i have to go. because they coming. >> president trump arrived in switzerland this morning for the annual world economic forum.

this hour, he's scheduled to hold a a meeting with british prime minster theresa may. and tomorrow said to address the full forum. cnbc notes trump his ideology will be in direct contrast. the new issue of time magazine just out is time to trump's trip and focuses on his rejection of multilateral world. editor at large for time magazine, karl vick who writes one of the issues cover stories joins us now. also with us, contributor and senior editor at large. your cover story is entitled america alone. and in it you write in part this, the u.s. president who in the name of makering ting the c great again has renounced the global architecture that the u.s. designed. championed and dominated for

generations. in america first inaugural address and every major speech since, trump has cast the world largely made by the u.s. as its greatest enemy. brutal zone of ungrateful allies, terrorists disguised as immigrants and east asians eating our lunch. start of second year in office, trump is still not one to shy from confrontation. with the federal government back open for business, he steered like saint george towards the dragon's cave to switzerland and the annual gathering of the world economic forum. >> what damage remains after four years and what is just going to be owned by donald trump during his terms. >> it's hard to say, but it's really hard to overstate this phenomena we've seen over the last year of u.s. withdraw. doesn't feel like a strategic

response. no logic behind it. it's an emotional response to down sides of globalism. displacement of jobs and movement of capital overseas and workers being at the mercies of these sort of title global tides, but, it is a world that the u.s. made. it's a multilateral world. it's. >> right. >> start with its obviously the rhetoric, but where we fact out comparison largely voluntary. what are some concrete institutions that we have left behind or caused damage. >> well, look at the he united nations which america essentially founded. fdr. really his great project. world bank inf. the paris accords as you mentioned. international migration treaty, all these things and tpp.

which has gone forward without america. when you look at swit lan switz with the president. >> i think they're made for each other. these are all rich people who think they are making the world a better place while in fact mostly making it better for themselves. remarkable data came out this week before it was starting. global top 1% extracted 82% of all new wealth created last

year. every new product invented. home extensions, restaurants started, 82% of all the new wealth created in the world went to the top 1%. representatives gathered in davos. >> and most made that by investing. moving money around. >> yes. so if you are a steel worker in indiana and you suddenly wonder why you job went somewhere else or got cut, unknowable chain of ownership up to the kinds of people meeting in davos this week who have made or world less stable. less fair. less equal. and created the kind of anger that people like donald trump have exploited. in some ways going to reunion of people who think they are safe yours who need to stop doing what they're doing and let the rest of us make the world a better place. >> some have began to express concern about the danger of that very statistic you cited. the danger that actually poses

not only to american capitalism, but global capitalism. we are here and we talk about the daily shocks to our constitutional norms. sults tha spreads across twitter. the racist comments he makes. and yet there are a lot of business owners that absolutely love what he's doing. a lot of people that run corporations who are quietly saying i'll put up with the crazy because i'm doing better now than i ever have before. >> that's absolutely true. business is doing very, very well right now. one of the things that's interesting is trump is a person of contradiction. america first. retreat from the world. he has on the forum policy front

committed to sending weapons to crew crane and on the business front, he has showered. he's anti-elite. business largely supports him. >> would you agree. >> business does. he's a businessman. he helps them. a little like the architect.

you don't really think it works. >> can we talk for a moment about young people. blind the numbers is a reality that in this country and many places in the world, if you are a young person coming out of college trying to make your life, business may be doing well. it's harder to find stable work. living a life of project and gigs. in debt that is unpayable. perhaps never be payable no matter what kind of career you get. this is happening around. this is why young people are so angry and gravitating to movements that channel their anger around the world. it's great rich folks are gathering in places and donald trump is going to make amends with them. i just want to think about who are the young people who are frankly have been screwed by the last 30-40 years of choices that older people have made. >> you talk about that, it's not just personal debt. it's the debt that the united states is s has accumulated where over $20 trillion in debt. they pass tax cut that's going to add another 1.5 trillion at

least to national debt. and if you look at the fact we're not addressing the retirement programs for the rest of americans, that debt is going to go to 30, $40 trillion and it will be millennials that will pay the price and have their economy, they futures crippled. >> absolutely. let's not forget the inequality and anger is what led to donald trump. let's not forget about that. the swell of the young people who are unlike previous generations in almost every way you can imagine, that's also business has realized they are important too and businesses claiming they're doing good. long discussion about that. one of the reason business has shifted so much for trying to be a force for good is because it's a little bit self serving. there are other reasons too. they need to attract this talent. they need to have a social purpose in their corporations

and many years ago. davos happened during the egypt uprising. had a colleague there and came back and said nobody even knew it was happening. i don't think that would happen today. at all. >> i don't think we need business if we did more good. i think we need them to be doing less harm. less tax havens. less tax evasion. less gouging workers and not paying them properly so they have to go on food stamps to supplement working at the largest companies in the world. >> that's the job of the government. that's the job of the president. that's the job of the politician who said look at these massive inequalities. i'm going to stand up to goldman sax. unlike hillary. i'm going to make -- and he's done none of that. in fact, everything he's done whether you look at health care reform as he called it, or his tax cuts. >> you're right.

compa exacerbate. >> dominique:. the dark genius is he the problem and he convinced people he was the solution. >> if you look at surveys. ed edelman put out trust barometer. not surprising trust in government has plummeted. lost faith in institutions. primarily our gft rigovernment now. trust in business has reached heights it's never been. there is a feeling that business has a responsibility to step in and try to do better and try to solve some problems. as we were talking about before, there is a line in the story saying that davos is such a weird place. in one day you see a sign for organization saying a day in the life of refugees and then right next to it, private car service here. so it is a studying contrast. >> really is. >> you look at the cover of time this week, america alone, you

ask who fills that void. well, it's china. >> we know who fills the void. >> donald trump's first year has been a huge win for china, has it not. >> he admires china. and xi jinping. he was treated very well. and china is building alternative international order which itself at the center. it's an authoritarian country moving ahead in artificial intelligence. aims to have the world's leading military in 2050. halfway through the sent have i. that's the world we will see created as the u.s. retreats and refuses to just take part and take responsibility. if that's what is happening. >> donald trump's legacy is a china first world. >> right. new issue of time magazine is america alone. karl vick, thank you very much. leigh gallagher, thank you. up next, u.s. spent decades

to contain moscow during the cold war. our next guest, says we've got to do it all over again. that is next and we're keeping an eye on davos. president holding a bilateral meeting with the british prime minster, theresa may. we'll be following those live pictures as well. we'll be right back. so, i needed legal advice, and i heard that my cousin's wife's sister's husband was a lawyer, so i called him. but he never called me back! if your cousin's wife's sister's husband isn't a lawyer, call legalzoom and we'll connect you with an attorney. legalzoom. where life meets legal.

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nominee of a president trying to use the intelligence committee. at no, when we would say no one would do that. well, look what they've done. the bottom line is, it was tricky as hell. it's easy now to say maybe we should have said more. but i ask a rhetorical question, can you imagine if the president of the united states called a press conference in october with this fella and bannon and company and said, tell you what, the russians are trying to interfere in our elections and we have to do something about it. what do you think would have happen? would things have gotten better? or it would it further look like we were attempting to delegitimize the electoral process because of our opponent? that was the constant battle. had we known what we knew three

weeks later, we may have done something more. >> that is of course former vice president joe biden speaking tuesday at the council on foreign relations. the council is out with a new report on how our government should respond to russia's attempts to destabilize russia's elections. joining us now, former official in the obama and clinton administration, phil gordon who co-wrote that report, and sums it up in a new piece for foreign affairs. writing, we will never know for certain whether russia's intervention changed the outcome of the 2016 election. the point is that it tried. vladimir putin seems to have made it a personal priority to weakenmeasures are needed to protect u.s. society and punish russia for attacking the united states. this response should not be confined to measures guarding against further election meddling. moscow will cease and

desoutheadesist only if it includes its paying a price. it is minimal sanctions have failed to sufficiently send a strong message. phil, it's good to see you. this is a bipartisan report authored with robert blackwell who worked under george w. bush and george h.w. bush. given all we know and all that's been out there about our conversations about russia for last year and a half or so, why haven't more been done, not on a bipartisan basis but protecting our democracy basis? >> that is a good question. that's what we're addressing here. a year in, every passing week, we see more and more evidence that russia interfered in the election and i would argue even more importantly continues to interfere in our country. so let's forget about this debate about whether they got trump elected or not. the president doesn't want to hear anything about this. and doesn't even accept the premise because he thinks it questions his legitimacy of his election.

that was a year ago. right now, as we speak, russia is still interfering in our country. through social media and paid advertising and bots and trying to fan the flames of the division in this country and that's where we're really vulnerable. that's why your question is right, why haven't we done more? we have a foreign adversary that has clearly indicated the seeking to weaken the united states abroad and undermine it at home. remember the first conclusion of the intelligence report that was released by the obama administration, it emphasized that the main russian effort wasn't to flip the election. they didn't think trump had a chance. it was to undermine our democracy and weaken it. and that's what we need to be protecting. and that's why it shouldn't be -- it's not partisan. >> so what's our response? what can we do that sends a sufficient message? >> i think a package of things.

russia still hasn't paid an adequate price for intervening in our country -- >> so the sanctions aren't hurting vladimir putin? >> they are hurting him and that's the point. they take a toll. they just haven't taken a sufficient toll. the reason we have any sanctions at all is that congress insisted against the president's efforts, again, he denied the premise. when obama took some actions late in the obama administration, for understandable reasons and vice president biden explained there was no support for that. the president has been fighting this all along. so congress has pushed him -- >> so what's next? >> congress identified a lot of areas where we can do more in terms of sanctions. different sectors of the russian economy. because the sanctions are having an effect. this is painful for russia. congress demanded that the administration identify by the end of this month a list of russian cronies and oligarchs

who are close to putin. once that list is out there, they will know that, again, this tool is at our disposal. they keep it up, they get hit. so i think part of it, a big part, is to increase the cost on russia for what they did. there's also more we can do in defending ourselves, right. that's the offensive part. but we need to do a better job of making it more difficult for them to do what they're doing, not just in terms of influencing our elections. obviously we have another one later this year. but in fanning the flames of these decisions. they're using these boths and trolls and paid people -- >> right, and we've seen it even this week. mike. >> phil what goes through your mind, what do you think when you consider the fact the american party, the american political party that controls all divisions of our government, most of its representatives say or do nothing about the fact that every intelligence agency has made russia culpable for

interfering in our election and still, as you indicated, still interferes daily in our country and in our culture and in our politics and they say nothing? >> you know, that's the astonishing and really unfortunate thing about this. there shouldn't be a more bipartisan issue than this. a hostile foreign power will is clearly indicated a desire to counter us and weaken us, interferes in a presidential election taand continues to interfere. >> even this week, you had the justice department yesterday saying to the republican head of the intel committee in the house, do not release your memo. it will do damage to the united states of america. and you have the russian intelligence agency obviously fanning the flames for the bots. on the side of the republican intel chair man. while trump's own justice department is saying don't do it. >> that's the problem. you can't raise, these days, you can't raise this issue without being put in the box of

attacking the president. there's all sorts of evidence. just this week also senator feinstein and schiff noticed that russian bots were pushing this release the memo thing. they wrote a letter saying we should take a look at that. we don't want outsiders, paid operatives trying to fan the flames of the division in the country. they also do it on left with immigration and dreamers. just trying to get americans angry at each other. you would think that raising that everybody on a bipartisan basis would say that's not good, we should take a look at that and try to protect ourselves from it. but immediately there's pushback. you're going after the president. that's what it comes down to in the end. the president himself, he won't accept the premise because every time someone suggests that russia is attacking this country, he says you're attacking my legitimacy. i beat hillary fair and square. i beat hillary. that's not it. we are not saying you didn't beat hillary. we are saying that a foreign adversary is trying to weaken our country on a daily basis and

we should protect ourselves and respond. and unfortunately the answer just keeps coming back. there was a senate report but it ended up having to be a minority staff report because the republicans wouldn't sign on. it's a very comprehensive deep investigation of russian efforts. that should be a bipartisan effort. >> right. >> saying someone's trying a attack us. >> i know you have not seen all the evidence. but you have studied this russian problem and russia interference very closely. do you find it plausible or perhaps likely russia would have had to have help to meddle the way they did in the 2016 election from a campaign perhaps? >> i don't think they would have had to have help, but there is enough contact, you know, the thrust of our report, no argument, is not trying to prove that. >> i understand. >> that's for bob mueller. but it is disturbing that the arguments went from there were no contacts with the russians at

all to okay, there's a bunch of contacts we denied but they weren't about helping the campaign, they were about other stuff, you know, adoptions to, okay, that stuff was offered, but it really didn't make a difference, to the very latest today in the tape with the white house reporters, trump almost seems to suggest that yeah, the russians were trying to help us but i didn't personally care about that. so again, that's not -- you know, we don't have the investigative tools on that. think about it this way. if the russians had this stuff and they have this goal, of course they would try. then it turns out they did try. it would be surprising if the trump campaign, give everything we know about the trump campaign, if the response was please we couldn't possibly work with you on that. >> they were, in fact, excited. phillip gordon, thank you so much. of course something the russians obviously want to know about is

whether oprah's going to run in 2020. before we go, this just in, from our friend laura brown, editor in chief of their latest issue. oprah winfrey, addresses speculation of running for president in 2020. i always felt very secure and confident in myself in knowing what i could do and what i could not. so it's not something that interests me. i don't have the dna for it. i met with someone the other day who said they would help me with a campaign. that's not for me. >> pretty definitive. >> that is definitive. >> so it's tom hanks then. >> it is tom hanks for president 2020. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. stephanie. >> oprah knows what she can do and what she cannot. in my experience, it seems like oprah, she can do anything. good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to hit this morning.