ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you. so we're doing it. yes. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we help all types of businesses with money, tools and know-how to get business done. american express open. welcome to "politics nation." late last night president trump took to twitter to shamelessly drag democrats on daca. an his precious border wall and the race to avoid another government shutdown. setting up a testy atmosphere just two days out from his first state of the union address.

will we see the relatively presidential trump we saw on his za vo davos trip this week? or will he revert to his twitter type with all guns blazing? should the congressional black caucus meet two weeks after the s-hole comments about mostly black nation? we'll ask two members that are in the black caucus. what are their plans? and all of this as fallout mounts over reports that president trump tried to fire special counsel robert mueller last june over his russia collusion investigation. but the president is pushing back, and so are we. joining me now, matt walsh and corine john pier of moveon.org.

karine, let me go to you. where i come from, when somebody wants to get rid of the prosecutor, it's usually that they are afraid of what the investigation may unearth or reveal about their them. so we hear that the president who wanted to fire the fbi director, wanted to fire robert mueller. my antenna goes up here. am i out of line ear? >> you are not out of line. good morning, first of all. it definitely plays into the line of, what is he hiding? why is it that he keeps wanting to fire people? or obstruct justice. he's been doing that from the moment he stepped into office. and we keep learning over and over again. and not only that, he's not behaving like an innocent person. innocent people don't fire the

first fbi director james comey over the russia thing. and now this report that we learn about seven months ago, and we're learning about it now. which i believe is only the tip of the iceberg. but this is donald trump who abuses power every day. and at this point, i do believe it is up to congress to make sure that mueller is protected. >> but matt, is there a logical reason other than hiding the concern about something. is there logical reason from the trump defenders that he would even have the discussion that they would meet. >> this investigation is an irtans. it's going too far and going into the family business in a way that's improper and based on a conspiracy theory not true. >> oh, they are worried about conspiracy theories. >> this is a bad week for

republicans to talk about democratic conspiracy there reryes for sure, but that's what the logic of the trump defense would be. it's hard to imagine that because we had a week and season of secret societies. we have missed 50,000 text messages. this is worse than watergate. the problem with the republican tax, not really in the trump legal defense, but undermining the mueller investigation, they are doing it in such a way to undermine their with a i to discredit this. >> i want corine to weigh in, but does this not undercut t the -- you can choose who is

there, the fbi, based on -- how does it look to the american public and the rest of the world? >> i'm libertarian. so i don't mind people have the -- >> i'm an aboritionist but go ahead. >> it's amazing the extent to which people are talking about, secret -- do it in a hand-held way, i think. you can choose a narrative, a line of attack that is rich and mine that one. but that's not what they're doing. one single text proves it all throwing that against the wall. when matt doesn't work, he'll have to pick up here.

>> then they attack the media for reporting they were trying to do things like fire mueller, and what does trump do in davos? attack the media. you attack the messenger when you can't deal with the substance of the message. >> and i think that's exactly right. i think what is happening is robert mueller's clearly getting closer and closer to the oval office. he's knocking on the door of the oval office and republicans are seeing that. just look how the year ended for donald trump advisers. people who worked closely with him. people on his campaign were indicted. we know flynn is talking to robert mueller open, someone who travels with donald trump for almost two years. sessions sat down with mueller.

there are things that we continue to learn that are leading closer and closer to donald trump. and what republicans are doing exactly what you guys were discussing. they want to undermine robert mueller's investigation because something is coming. something is going to happen. and when it does, they want to be able to say, oh, well, you know what? you can't trust the be -- the crazy thing about this, we're talking about the republican party, which is supposed to be a law and order party, right? they are supposed to have the moral high ground. >> good luck finding a law and order party, man. i mean, do you think that the president does go in front of mueller and answers the questions voluntarily? or is he putting this out there saying to the crowd, i would love to go, under oath, whatever you want.

while lawyered over there. >> the answer is, are his lawyers working for him? or is he working for his lawyers? >> i think that he thinks in his mind and he can do this. but he thinks he's innocent here. any lawyer allowing donald trump to continue malpractice, but he's the president. >> corrine, i have known donald trump for a long time, more bad than good, but he's a salesman. he fails at an overpriced property, condos, whatever you can. we are way over the value of it. he thinks he can talk anybody into anything, so he probably

does think, let me talk out of -- >> i think that's exactly right. he believes he's the only one that can fix this. he believes he's the best salesman and only he knows how to talk about things on his behalf. he kind of says that all the time when he wants to go out and talk to the press. he knows the she secret. you can't lie to the fbi. if you do, it's a crime. i just don't know how he does it. i think the only thing he'll say that is true is that his name is donald j. trump. >> we'll have to leave it there. thank you to matt welch and corine jon-pierre.

i'll ask congress. this is "politics nation" on msnbc.

some say no matter who the president is, members of congress aught to respect them and go. >> i cannot sit and watch the president and give him that honor. i believe that the state of the union message is an honor that

is afforded the president by the speaker who invites him to deliver the state of the union. and i don't want to give him that. >> with president trump's first state of the union address in just two days, just over two weeks after his alleged s-hole remarks about developing black and latino american nation, the congressional black caucus is unified in this outrage but tactically split. with maxine watters and fred rica wilson saying they will not attend. while cedrick wilson has called for the president's sensor over the remarks, but it's yet to find out whether he will boycott the address as a group. joining me now is new york congressman gregory meeks, a member of the congressional black caucus. congressman, first of all, thank

you for joining me this morning. >> good to be with you. >> you and i have known each other a long time. we have come through the new york politics, national politics together, so we have always respected our different roles. mine, outside activist and you a member of congress. there are two trains of thought here. one, how can you sit in the room with the man who has said racist things? and the other thing is, he's the president, you have to respect the president's seat and we sent you down to engage and not put yourself in a situation where you couldn't. so this is not an easy call for any member of congress, black or otherwise. where are you? >> that is correct. i will tell you first that for members of the congressional black caucus, everybody has a deep personal conviction of one way or the other. the way i am is i come from the school where my mother taught me. if someone does not give me

respect, i cannot give them respect. i'm not going to bow to them. this president, we have given him opportunity for respect. >> right. >> he's not given me or my constituents or my people any respect. he can get on a script, which he will do, and read and people will say, oh, maybe he is presidential. and then the very next day you will see who he truly is. he did that with the television piece on immigration. you remember he had everything? and then the very next day when people gave him proposals, he e reniged. so i will be in my office listening very attentively. i will go back to the media and my constituents afterwards to give my response to what the president has to say. but for the sake of the

institution, can i not give this man who does not respect me the respect to be in that audience. >> okay, let me understand this quickly, congressman gregory meeks, where donald trump comes from, you are a congressman in the year he was born. and you may have started in your district. so his home congressman is saying he will not be in there when he gives his state of the union address. >> that's exactly right. i will not be there. he has not -- let me tell you -- >> better from home, mr. president. >> i'm given him a chance. i was one in the beginning when he was being inaugurated as president of the united states. and so therefore i'm going to go for the office of president of

the united states, whether you talk about charlottesville, whether you talk about immigration, whether you talk about his expressions toward haiti and africa, whether you talk about the policy he's put forth and how he talked about former president obama, there is at every opportunity he has the suspected me and digital to look like me. can i not respect him. i am a member of congress and have to do things for my district. i will bill district-wise. >> a district that includes a state where he comes from. >> that's exactly right. let me bring in another member of the congressional black caucus, congresswoman sheila jackson lee. congresswoman jackson lee, congressman meeks, the president just announced here he's not going inside of the state of the

union address. he will not be in the hall that night. he will be in his office and do his duty. other members of the congressional black caucus have said they will protest in other ways. in fact, you have roots in queens as well. your mom's funeral was in queens. >> we talked about the people who don't know their roots. what do you think? >> let me just say the con gres gresgre gregs congressional black caucus is a family. they are very diverse. our passion and concern is for them. therefore, when we have an administration that has consistently shown ongoing disrespect or nonresponse, we have to respond ourself. we have to respond to the state of the union because the state

of the union is a time for the president to speak to all of america. that has not occurred over the last year. the responses of the actions of this president do not speak to all of america. and as i listen to my colleague, he's right about the issues. we are not offended by this president personally. we have our our courage, integrity but we do need admiration. for example, the people suffering in houston, texas, all those suffering from disasters had his attention. right now my community has yet to receive the supplemental disaster relief. and the fact that the submission came from mulvaney who does not like government, that's the o&b director, it is not even enough. so i start from that premise as to whether or not the president has made his commitment to the

united states, you do not. i am a well-seated texas, but i'm also a daughter of immigrants. my grandparents came from jamaica. they came through panama. and i don't know whether they would meet the merritt test, but i tell you, i have a young woman who wants to go to yale university. i want that for all those who want to do good in their country. he doesn't seem to see that. and then i would say this, i believe that the crucial part of this nation is its underpinning in democracy and social justice, voting rights, the criminal justice system. we have not heard one positive word about the importance of the civil rights. >> congressman meeks, you

announced that you're not going home. looking at this tweet coming after democrats, he made punk members on the other side of the track. you don't know what he's going to say. those that do go risk getting their finger wagging by this president. you don't know which donald trump is going to show up? >> you never know. first off, he's a conman and what he's done all his life. if you look at his policies, in queens, he had over 800 people come out. so he makes even with his tax cuts and makes you think because you people are talking $11,000 that someone gets back.

they let you win the first game, but in the long-term you're going to lose everything. social security, medicaid, medicare, in the end you will lose everything. i don't want to be part of his kaun gam con game. i've got to move on, thank you, both of you, congress woman jackson-lee. coming up, the president clai claims business and the economy are doing well. that's next, be right back.

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downturn. not exactly a winning global strategy for a guy who made his name by plastering it all over buildings worldwide. but the united states, the second most population destination for foreign travel, is now down to three, surprised by spain in the number two position. and still behind reigning champ france in the top spot. this, even as international tourism has risen by 7% globally. but before the apoll jusogist s rev, let me hear from the experts on this. okay, sure, because for the past year, tourism experts and insiders have criticized the president's misguided travel

ban, compaxenophobia language a sending a wrong message to the earthling. and just after obama's election in 2012, tourism was up more than 6%. guess the rest of the world wasn't so hung up on that birth certificate. president trump, you promote yourself as being the consonant businessman, but i think if there is one bridge too far, even for you, it will be messing with the bookings at one of your overpriced but undervisited hotels. but if you keep this up, you might just look up and see those international flights bypassing new york for nigeria with an extended layover in haiti. in the meantime, i've got a

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the idea that the president of the united states and the justice department would arrest any one of us for believing in our ideals and carrying out the law of our city is wrong, fundamentally wrong. >> you can threaten subpoenas,

you can threaten arrest and we'll keep abiding by the cost tu constitution and keeping our town safe. >> i will not be attending the meeting. >> as i said last week, the best examples of political courage and resistance , could the trum agenda continue to be at the local level? and more than 200 mayors across the country met in washington for the united states conference of mayors, with many of them publicly declining a white house invitation to meet with the president on wednesday. citing the justice department's recent threat to subpoena more than 20 so-called sang ware cities. joining me is steven k. benjamin, mayor of columbia, south carolina, and the mayor of dayton, ohio. both went to washington to

participate in the mayors conference this week. may mayor worley, the president invited participants from all over the country, but then the same day dropped this attack from the justice department on seasoning wa sanctuary cities. was it the message to say, i'm in charge and i'm not taking any nonsense for those that don't go along with my policies. or was it that they are so inept that it was bad timing? >> well, i think only they know that at the white house. but for us coming together really trying to solve the problems in our communities, working together to do that, and seeing how even this invite was questionable before the drop from sessions on wednesday that really showed us that we are not in a normal, kind, relationship

with the federal government. this is not how the obama and clinton administrations ever behaved with the conference of mayors or the mayors from across the country. and certainly as mayor benjamin continues to speak with one voice, when you attack one ma r mayor, you attack all of us. and we are making sure we protect our citizens in our communities. >> now, let me go to you, mayor benjamin. you know, this is not -- because i know many of the mayors that didn't go. i know you and i worked together in the fine city on several issues, including fighting crime. if not that you as mayor and your colleagues disrespect the president by not going to the

state of the union address, but it's as if the president really stepped outside of the boundary of where anyone can respect the office without looking like they're really in effect co complicit with what he's done with the office. >> thank you for having me on. thank you for having her on, she's a great leader in our organization. what you saw in washington this past week as we gather at the end of january, over 200 local leaders from cities large and small from new york city down to the smallest cities in america had come together to solve the problems of america. it's so important to recognize that what we're talking about here, 85% of our citizens live in cities and metropolitans. 91% of america's gross domestic product is created in cities and metropolitan economies. you have some of the most creative men and women from all across the country on both sides of the aisle coming together to

address the opioid epidemic. talk about how to put young people back to work. how we get unsheltered citizens inside. it's amazing while we are busy focusing on major issues that we can get distracted by, just downright silly politics. i've had the opportunity to sit across the table from the attorney general jeff sessions, across from general kelly when he was at homeland security. this whole sanctuary cities is nothing but that, it's meant to confuse people. the reality is there is no city in america right now in violation of the u.s. constitution. the white house, the department of homeland security, the justice department, can't get any consistency to determine what a sanctuary city is, but they know it's a great wedge issue that drives people apart. we are about getting the work done, getting the job done. >> you said it right.

a great wedge issue. and mayor worley, you know, they are playing politics affecting hundreds of thousands of millions of people. we do need to deal with infrastructure and jobs. and to throw in wedge issues when we have people in real need is about as cynical and in my opinion as insensitive as you can become. >> i agree, reverend sharpton. mayor benjamin talked about the issues really affecting our communities. having panels and discussions about the opioid epidemic raph annualing the state of ohio and states across the country, working to figure out ways to deal with automation in our countries that changes the definition of work. this is the kind of things the mayors conference talks about. instead, the president decides to meet with us and bring us

together like three former presidents have done like sanctuary cities on wednesday morning. it shows politics and what is going on in local communities. >> seconds ago president trump tweeted, somebody please inform jay-z because of my policies that black unemployment has just been reported to be at the lowest rate ever recorded. now, you know that i know him from new york. and jay-z is not stupid. if you are in an ocean, in a storm, and you guide the boat around the storm and finally bring it toward the shore, and the last wave a new captain takes the ship, he can't take credit for taking you around the storm. and he can't take credit for the

wave. president obama started that steering the ship around the storm. and the waves toward low block in your city of columbia where you started to deal with unemployment, that started happening under obama. can you think of any policy donald trump has put in to help bring about employment down? >> who ever thunk i would be on "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton talking about a tweet between president trump and jay-z. >> three new york guys. >> in our city, we work diligently over several years and certainly starting in the obama administration to get unemployment advantage below the national average. we created an environment with

sector capital, a record number of putting kids back to work, a record number of putting kids in parks, all these are happening because of policies and trends that started long ago. it's great to want to take credit for everything, but i'll tell you what, that is not the case. >> all right, well, thank you both, mayor benjamin and worley. a stance for political leaders and their continued support for the president after reports of alleged harassment and affairs. be right back.

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♪ he's not a perfect person, no, and neither am i. and we certainly don't hold him up as the pastor of this country and he's not. but i appreciate the fact that the president does have a concern for christian values. he does have a concern to protect christians, whether it's here at home or around the world. >> each week we learn every day we learn more about the president's alleged extra

marital affair with stormy daniels in 2006. the evangelical christians who defended president trump despite his multiple marriages and explicit statements and generally liberty past find themselves facing charges of hypocrisy. as the public questions, how can they give trump a pass on inpropriety? well, past democratic presidents like bill clinton and even a standard-free barack obama caught to use church parlor -- a member of president trump's evangelical advisory and "washington post" reporter eugene scott. let me go to you first, reverend burns.

you and i debated on "morning joe" and others. we disagree politically, though we respect each other. how can evangelical ministers condemn some behavior of a bill clinton or others and just keep on giving a pass, not even discussing the behavior of president trump? how do you have it both ways? >> well, reverend, again, you're right, we disagree politically, but surely being on your show as a forerunner for our people and our nation. but let me just say this. and you and i abound, grace abounds. >> where was the grace when clinton was being impeached? it seems like grace abounds starting with trump, according to some. >> that's not true. that's not true because obviously president nixon was

also -- president nixon was also forced to resign. and it was by members of his own party. so i don't think it has to do anything like -- >> it was not on moral issues like this. gene, me and other clergy may disagree, but the things they condemn clinton on and others insist on is the exact same thing they pardon the president on. i'm not talking about things i say, i may say there's nothing wrong with certain things, but things they condemn is what is being raised here, you jeeugene. >> and the perfect example is robertson who said bill clinton turned this reminiscent of the 1960s. he's gone on to say he's proud

of trump. and the evangelicals overwhelmingly support him. it is important to realize that it is white evangelicals that overwhelmingly support the president. the majority of black, brown and people of the presidency, not primarily because of economical issues but moral issues. >> the majority of -- you've been on the trump train, even rung the bell going choo choo a couple of times. you're there. do you see anything wrong with the president's behavior? let's take it out of the -- with him calling african countries s-holes and haiti s-hole and fine people among neo-nazi. do you find anything that you can condemn this president on, anything? >> reverend al, i think it's sad the majority of african-american black christians in america are not focusing more on their faith and focused more on the race.

because in fact, i don't see how any preacher of the gospel can support anyone or any party that will support the abortion of the death of babies. we talk about love thou neighbor, how about love the unborn baby -- >> the question that we -- i think the question that i asked you -- >> we're talking about reverend, it's a good attempt to duck president trump. >> we both speak and do it well. so i asked you whether you found anything that you could condemn the president and you go condemning ministers. >> we're talking allegedly. >> i'm not talking allegedly. i'm talking about what we know. forget the allegations, i'm talking about what we know he said about about haiti and what we know he said about charlot charlotteville. >> there's a complete difference what bill clinton went through -- >> you're going to try outtalk, eugene, let me go to you.

the problem is they cannot defend the inconsistent scy andp pock krascy, that doesn't work with me because i've been overtalkingers all my life. >> is there anything you can condemn if you want to get back in, will you say there's anything you can condemn on this president? i'm not talking about your opinion of other black clergy. that wasn't the question. is there anything, yes or no you can condemn this president on? >> if president trump, we're talking allegedly because you're speaking as though you know because you were not in the room, nor was i. >> i'm not talking about the room. i'm talking about any -- anything said and done -- i'm talking about -- >> reverend al, i can't talk. >> i love you too much to talk over you. >> said there were fine people among the neo-nazis, do you

condemn that? >> absolutely condemn that. absolutely. i've said it openly over and over again. but that's not -- but president trump wasn't talking about the kkk or white supremacist people. there were other people in those groups. >> you don't condemn him saying that. >> white supremacy -- >> you do or don't condemn him saying that? >> i love you too much to try to overtalk you. >> i love you as much as you love me but do you -- are you condemning what he said or not? >> i'm condemning the fact that we're not giving the president the same respect that we've given other presidents who obviously changed our relation. that's what i condemn, the mainstream media making about black and white and not about red and white and blue and green so we as a people can -- >> red, white, blue, green. y eugene, i think it is a classic example of what we're talking about. that is -- there's got to be some kind of moral consistency

and i think -- >> absolutely. >> we can disagree but we got to at least agree with ourselves, eugene. >> there is a moral standard and if it -- >> whoa, i'm talking to eugene. calm down and let eugene respond. >> when we talk about moral standard, something that evangelical leaders have to be mindful of is the impact their support for the president has on their witness beyond the white house and beyond this administration. many evangelical leaders praised president trump for opening the white house to them and giving them access they've never seen before. this could seriously cause the evangelical faith and popularity and support from people outside of its tribe and that should be the priority of evangelicals. >> i thank both of you, pastor

mark burns, you fought a good fight and lost, but you fought a good fight and you jeeugene -- >> i didn't lose, i didn't get to talk. >> stay with us. piled high with good eats, like creamy mashed potatoes, corn, and shredded cheese under a savory blanket of home-style gravy. you might think it's over, but it's not. because we rounded up crispy hunks of all white meat chicken, fried 'em country-like and loaded them on top for an impressive 19 grams of protein. now that's mega. when heartburn hits fight back fast with tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum tums chewy bites.

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tuesday night president trump will make his first state of the union address. i don't know what he's going to say. i don't know what attitude, style or mindset he will have.

congressman from where he was born in queenz announced on this show earlier, he's not going to attend as others won't. i support that. but the president has an opportunity to really turn all of this around. i remember when i ran for president, dr. walker who passed this past monday, he was the executive director for martin luther king's organization, chief of staff and he was the first chairman of the board of my group, national action network some generation later. he told me when you walk on that stage, you can either confirm or dispel what everyone has been told about you. take the high road and define yourself. well, mr. trump, if we're wrong in our text and miscasting you, you have the opportunity in front of the world to define not only the state of the nation but the state of the president of the nation and bring us to a

place where we can all come together and solve the problems. you have the big stage now, mr. trump, it's up to you how you perform on it. that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here next sunday. now to my colleague, alex witt. >> to which i say, here's hoping, rev, thanks so much. >> good morning, i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is 9:00 a.m. in the east and here's what's happening, secret russia memo, president trump reportedly wants it released but the justice department says that might risk national security. new details on that fight this hour. >> of american greatness is now beginning -- >> the state of the union, president trump's first official address of its kind of the nation. what message will he deliver and will he stray from the script. the d.r.e.a.m.ers battle, do new