that's a wrap this hour. i'm alex witt. but right now, sit back down, it's time for "am joy" with my friend joy reid. >> i'm very highly educated. i know words, i have the best words, but there's no better word than stupid. >> wow, good morning and welcome to "am joy," on tuesday donald trump will deliver his first state of the union address. if his inner monologue, it will be the biggest, best, huge estate of the union addresses in history. >> would you do it under oath, mr. president? >> you mean like hillary did it -- who said that? >> i said that. would you do it under oath. >> oh, you did say it. you say a lot. i'll gave you an idea, she didn't do it under oath, but i would do it under oath.

>> to reach a higher standard, you would do it under oath? >> i would do it under oath, absolutely. >> you heard it right. trump actually said he wants to speak to robert mueller under oath. of course, his lawyer ty cobb walked that back saying trump was speaking hurriedly and not planning to answer questions in front of a grand jury. if he does speak with rob mert mueller, he'll have more explaining to do, like asking the deputy director of the fbi andrew mccabe how he ordered, or his ordering mueller to be fired in june, a report trump is denying as fake news. now this, trump has, according to "the washington post," urged the justice department to, #releasethememo. the memo written by devin nunes accuses the fbi of using politically motivated sources to justify secret surveillance during the early stages of the

russia investigation. when trump takes the dias on it is he'll be under the shadow of the latest sexual misconduct scandal, steve wynn resigned among accusations of decades of sexual misconduct. here is rnc chair ronna mcdaniel's statement. today i accepted steve wynn's resignation. i'd say there's a strong chance of big storms in the political forecast. joining me now, timothy o'brien, msnbc contributor and author of "trump nation, the art of being the donald" tiffany cross managing editor of the beat d.c. e.j. dionne columnist from "the

washington post." ladies first, donald trump saying he would like to testify under oath. i'm wondering how much of a cloud does the russia gate scandal, the on going scandal hangover his state of the union? >> i think it's going to be a huge deal. not for his base, but certainly for the democrats and the world is watching. i think he has done a really great job of maintaining a consistent story. there was no collusion. sometimes journalists have to ask him, mr. president, the question was, where are you headed today? i do think this is going to be a huge saddle over the state of the union. i think our friends and enemies are watching. his aggressive language has put him very much on the world stage. i don't think he's going to be able to get away without having to address some of these huge scandals he's been involved in. >> 30 times in depositions when he sued you telling how much he

earned or how much he's worth. does the fact of his reputation for not being honest and truthful, how much does that hangover -- a president's state of the union -- how much does it hangover? >> i think it hangs over his entire administration. one of the things unique about this presidency is we have a president who is a serial fabulist. he lies willy-nilly, not up to speed on policy issues. he's degraded the office because he's unable to stick, not only to the message, but to the truth. of course, it's going to hangover the state of the union. presumably they'll have him on script from going entirely off the rails. it's a black mark on the whole administration. >> just staying on script is not in and of itself presidential. you can't become president by staying on script. e.j., the polling going into

tuesday is not good. on the question of whether he is honest, the latest pquinnipiac says no, he's not honest. whether he cares about the average american, 57% say no, he doesn't care about the average american. those are not good poll numbers. the numbers we put up before, in the nbc "wall street journal" poll, americans were asked about their feelings about donald trump. 38% said disgusted. 24% said scared. only 23% said hopeful. is there any other way to spin this other than saying donald trump is digging himself out of a very deep hole? >> i think that's exactly right. if you look at some of the news sto stories, it seems the folks in the white house are aware of this. for 20 years now, viewership of the state of the union has

become very partisan, that the people who watch it tend to be the people who already agree with you, and the people who don't watch it are the people who are unpersuadable. there aren't that many persuadable people in that state of the union audience. as you suggested, trump sees sometimes to get favorable reviews if he reads successfully off a teleprompter. i hope that doesn't happen this time. i think the notion being put out by the white house is that he wants to hit themes of national uni unity. boy, that's going to be tough for him. as those numbers you just read suggested, he's got about a third of the country with him and that's it. everything he says about mueller, and everything he says about this investigation is divisive. it's going to be very curious whether he chooses to address that or not. personally i think it's no win

for him even to mention the mueller investigation. personally i'll be surprised if he does. i'm often surprised. >> caitlin dawson, it's true that donald trump maintains 37%, 36% of the electorate, but hasn't really been able to get a single additional supporter. today is the 32nd anniversary of the challenger tragedy. that is the kind of ceremonial duty of a president, that they can bring the country together in times of national tragedy, that people can rally around him even if they don't degree with him. when it's needed, they can step up into the pulpit of the white house. donald trump doesn't seem to have that ability. in your view, it's also in his interest to just stay partisan, keep his base and try to help republicans win in the midterms. do you think it's worth him trying to reach beyond his base? can you do it? >> i'm not sure he can do it. he has a solid base of support with the president.

he has an opportunity with the state of the union to add some decorum to the office and deliver a message of what we get frustrated back home with on what his policies and politics have done, especially the tax package and the ramifications we're seeing with jobs and increases and people's paychecks growing and possibly quit stepping on the message of the policies that we as republicans think have been outstanding. with that being said, with everything surrounding the president, the russia probe, the mueller probe, there's so much out there that i see in the polling data right now, there's a lot of confusion. i think the president does a good job of adding to that confusion at times in trying to represent himself, protect himself. again, the country elected a person who has never been a politics and a real estate developer. that's what i elected and what i voted for. at the end of the day, we'll see if we can do a presidential reset. donald trump is a very competitive and aggressive person as we know. he's changed the decorum of the

presidency. we see that in the poll numbers. also remember, the poll numbers showed us he wasn't going to win last time. we've also seen, joy, the president's popularity inside races does not transfer in these special election races, that we have won most of them as republicans, but they've been very tight. the president is not on the ballot in 2018, but he will be judged by the results of 2018. 33 senate seats up is a big deal. a lot of competitive ones, more that should be competitive. right now elections are a week at a time and politics is a week at a time. we're dealing with the finance chairman who stepped down. we're dealing with a lot of things that the country is seeing right now. i can't tell you that everybody is euphoric. i can tell you the people i saw at the muffler's shop on friday who got $40 more in their paycheck take home were pretty excited. >> tim, i want to play steve

wynn. we talked about the finance chair. no one is talking about him. he seems to be a non-entity. this is steve wynn talking about donald trump on fox news back in 2016. >> it seems to me that on the subject of the presidential sexu sexual behavior, being oversectioned seems to be a qualification for president. this is a distraction. >> particularly gross now that you know what he's been doing for the last several decades. katon made the point that the country elected a, quote, businessman. you know he wasn't particularly a good one he had to be bailed out by the russians. do americans -- they kind of ask for this. this is a reality show actor. not even an actor-actor. >> i think what americans thought they were electing was someone who was a skilled dealmaker and capable businessman who is going to come to washington and shake things

up and make things for the better. i don't think they thought they would elect someone who had relationships with porn star, a congenital liar. that's the reality of the trump presidency. if he sends down with robert mueller, he's going to get scorched. he can't help himself but to overinflate his own image in front of people, including someone deposing him under oath. if he goes there, it's going to be very dangerous for him. the second issue, on steve wynn, he also in his own statement about the sexual harassment -- it's not even harassment, it looks like it's assault and possibly rape allegations. he also described those as a distraction. of course, they're not a distraction. we know what happens in vegas doesn't stay in vegas. this has blown into something that questions the whole republican mantra around family values and respect for women. this undermines all of that.

they're going to have to deal with that. the other thing is all the money steve wynn raised for the gop got him something. remember last october he hand delivered a letter to the white house asking the white house to go easy on a dissident chinese businessman that the chinese wanted to return. steve wynn represents about 0% of his casino revenue from macau. >> they can't think they can escape the ghost of steve wynn. >> i hate to disagree with everybody, but we have to say we have to stop judging republicans by the same standards we judge ourselves. for the past year, we've said the republicans have backed themselves in a corner this time. time and again, just like this president, they grant this party a mulligan yet again. the president has probably averaged a scandal a day over this past year. when you look at the rnc

fund-raising, the leader of their party who has been engulfed in scandal, they have broken fund-raising records over the past year. i feel like on the left and the media, we're like charley brown kicking the football. i don't think this will help the republican party, i'm not convinced it will necessarily hurt them either. >> last word to you, katon, because you're leaving us after this segment. does nothing matter to your party? >> a lot matters to us. trying to cage this as a political partisan activity. this is not the last powerful man who is going to have sleazy behavior. >> but none of the powerful men in your party have paid much of a price. the base doesn't seem to care. democrats ran al franken out of town. republicans just sort of shrug off the sexual assault allegations, silence on wynn.

>> as i said earlier, joy, we've talked about this time and time again. this behavior is unacceptable. i applaud the women for bringing it forward, but making it political gets a little uncomfortable. a lot of times uncomfortable makes for a good result. the end of the day, the public is tired of all of this. it's become like an anesthetic where you see so much e every day. in church this morning where i was an usher, we now look out for people with guns. that's what we were doing this morning. not to change the subject, but we've got the voting public turning the tv on and turning it off quickly because of what we see. i won't go with this is a republican issue. steve wynn resigned, removed himself from the controversy. the courts will judge him. again, this is not the last powerful man in sleazy behavior, whether it's harvey weinstein or

whoever else it is. to make it like the republicans are not taking it seriously is disingenuous. >> we'll talk later in the show about how much tolerance there is among the republican base. we thank you, katon. timothy o'brien and katon dawson. more on donald trump's first state of the union address and a response from camelot. you're watching "am joy." (vo) i was born during

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how would you describe the state of the union -- >> now or -- >> now or in a year. >> now it's a mess. i think if i'm there in two years and making a speech, i'm saying we're getting better fast. >> if white house says the theme of the first state of the union will be building a safe and strong america. he's facing the growing cloud of russia gate and boycott from lawmakers. >> massachusetts congressman joe kennedy iii, member of the country's most famous political family. joining me shermichael singleton and msnbc contributor jonathan capehart. shermichael, i'll start with

yo you. >> democrats skipping the state of the union so far, maxine water, gregory meeks. this is congressman meeks this morning on "politics nation" explaining what he will do instead. >> ' giving him a chance. i was one in the beginning when he was being inaugurated. i said he's the president of the united states. so, therefore, i'm going to go for the office. but since he's been the president of the united states at every opportunity he has disrespected me and individuals who look like me. >> shermichael, that is a congressman from donald trump's hometown of new york. what do you make of the small but pretty significant boycott here? >> well, you know, i guess it's sort of leads creed dense to the fact that we're divided. i think that's undeniable.

i think the white house has sort of released that the president wants to have a speech that unites the country. that's going to be pretty difficult considering his most recent statements about africa, haiti and countries south of the border. even throughout his presidency or can't da see. i understand why those folks are protesting. i don't necessarily agree with it. i would actually love to see them there to say no, we are going to stand up and against this type of vitriol, this type of rhetoric in numbers, but i do understand. i think for the president, it's going to be really difficult, joy, for him to speak to the individuals who feel marginalized, who don't feel they're part of the conversation. with donald trump, he's pretty decent when he reads from a teleprompter, but the next day he'll tweet something or say something ridiculous that diminishes everything he stated in the prepared remarks. i think a lot of the people in the white house will be sitting on the edge of their seats trying to see if he'll stick

with the script. >> jonathan, justice ruth bader ginsburg won't be there. she has a speech she has to give. you also have the fact that democratic women are going to wear black, those who are actually attending in honor of the me too movement which includ includes donald trump who has 19 sexual accusers. the symbolism is going to be pretty heavy. >> right. this is a moment when the president of the united states is -- one of the many moment, probably the premier moment when the president of the united states talks to the american people, gives a report card of where we are as a nation both from the hard core data points from safety and economics to who we are as a people and the struggles that we are dealing with. the people who are going to be in that chamber on tuesday,

dreamers, democratic members wearing black. this is a form of protest, including those people like congressman lewis, who aren't going to be there. i think democrats have to lose this characteristic of always being reasonable, always being the adults in the room. i think tiffany was saying in the last segment that, you know, we've got to stop looking at this president and this presidency from a normal lens, and people need to have their voices heard. joy, under normal circumstances if donald trump were a normal president, he would be able to stand there in the well of the house of representatives and actually crow about the stock market, about the unemployment rate, about knocking isis on its heels. but the problem is he will be a hollow shell of a man standing there in the well of the house of representatives. there's moral rot in the oval

office. he and his party are engaging in an incredibly destructive undermining of the trust of our institutions, particularly law enforcement, when it comes to the fbi. there's fear rampant through the country because there are 800,000 dreamers, up to 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country who are worrying right now as to whether or not they will be able to stay in the country, many of whom, they've never known any or country. it would be great if donald trump were able to stand in the well of the house of representatives and bring this nation together. but as shermichael said, he could read really well from the prompter. i will defer with shermichael, it won't be a day later that he stomps all over his message, it could be hours before his twitter thumbs get in the way and stomp all over anything that he's just said. >> tiffany, i'll go to you first

on this. this is unprecedented. the resistance to normalizing donald trump is not just because he can't stick with the prompter, it's what he's doing. he's inspired a historic level of resistance. it almost feels like we've been transported back 50 years and you're seeing an act of resistance to his policy agenda which feels so hostile. the latest quinnipiac poll shows in addition to the fear he's inspired, 53% of people say they're embarrassed rather than proud to have him as president. this isn't a normal state of the union. >> definitely not. i think it matters to all of us on the panel, to the media punditry. my fear is despite this resistance movement, there are a significant amount of people in the country who have been normalized to this assanine behavior. the next day they have lunches to pack, kids to get ready for

school. i'm not sure everybody is going to have this rallying cry. i don't know that it's going to create a hiej movement. i think the state of the union actually doesn't matter as much as the democratic response. >> e.j., you and norm ornstein got together and wrote a book about surviving the trump era. which side do you fall on? is this being normalized? the press has this incredible power to normalize trump. at the same time you have so much of the country that is literally in fear for whether their family members will be deported, if they leave to go home for school. it is an unprecedented on the see. should we not elevate the state of the union to this level of importance given that it's trump? >> i actually think the state of the union is the state of the union and we should treat it as such. i think what's really scary is we've normalized this abnormal

cycle, that trump is the only politician in our history who fends off one scandal with a new scandal. and we have just become accustomed to this cycle and, therefore, each particular thing isn't taken seriously enough, and it rolls off our back. if i could, joy, i would like to point out, as i think we're going to get to it anyway, the reply to the state of the union this year is going to be particularly interesting, and not just because it's being given from my hometown of fall river, massachusetts, which i'm very proud of. we're a place that's been really battered economically. an old factory town, our unemployment rate hit 14% at the peak of the great recession. it's down now, but still higher than the rest of the state. i think picking joe kennedy as the responder sends a really interesting message, a, even

republicans see him as a real political talent. secondly, he kind of symbolizes the need that democrats have to speak to working class people across racial lines. white people, african-americans, latinos and asians. so it's the worst job in the world to reply to a state of the union message. it really is hard. but i think the democrats have sent a message that they really want to speak to a very broad constituency in response to trump including white working class people who are disillusioned by him. >> quickly around the horn. can nostalgia be the anecdote to trumpism. >> i love e.j. so i hate to disagree with him. i think the democrats failed here. go out in baltimore or cleveland or detroit or alabama and ask the average person, what do you think about joe kennedy, and

they're going to say who? i'm not sure he'll be the one to champion this. this is a chance for democrats, we have to change our messaging tactics the way donald trump has taken advantage of this reality tv atmosphere, i think they could have gotten all their all-stars. this is a different day and age. we don't have to play by the old role. get cory booker and kirsten gillibra gillibrand, get them altogether. if the democrats create a dope response, it could be televised, instagramed, shared on twitter and facebook. i think they've missed the boat with this. >> jonathan, your thoughts. >> i'll be curious to see what congressman kennedy does. as you said, joy, he comes from probably the most famous political family in the country. you take the nostalgia still in the country for his family and you add to that whatever he says policiwise a about the how

democrats view the country, view where it needs to go, specific policy ideas, it could be the thing that gets people to wake upnd see that democrats aren't just sitting around saying trump is bad, trump is bad, trump is bad. it's trump is bad, we're good and here is why we're good and here's the policies we will push to put in place if you put us in charge of the house and please, baby, please, baby, please the senate in november of 2018. i'm going to hold out hope. >> we didn't even get to trump going after jay z. darn you, clock. up next, evangelical blind spot for trump. ♪

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he embraced himself and the most conservative party platform ever, and yes, evangelicals, conservatives gave him a mulligan. they let him have a do-over. they said we'll give you a second chance. >> this week we learned that white conservative evangelical, the supposed stewards of american morality have discovered a new biblical doctrine which apparently only applies to republican men, the mulligan. joining me frank schaffer, religious reform activist. frank, it's an interesting sort of concept. this is a little bit more of what tony perkins had to say about why evangelicals give

donald trump a pass on so many of the things that he has done. >> conservatives and even some with no strong ideology are tired, tired of being kicked around by barack obama and his leftists. and i think they're finally glad that there's somebody on the playground willing to punch the bully. >> is that what we're seeing, people on the religious right want someone to punch the billy, the bully being barack obama apparently. >> i guess barack obama was a bully because he was black. you have to remember that everything that has happened since his presidency is a reaction by a core group of white voters. let's remember when we talk about evangelicals, in 1958 jerry falwell senior was denouncing integration and started a white private school academy to get around the new rulings from the courts.

so if you fast forward right now, it isn't that this history doesn't have a context. the context is american racism. so right now when tony perkins who, by the way, i grew up with these guys. i knew tony. he got into politics because of my evangelist father francis schaeffer who challenged him to take a stand against these issues. he seems to have forgotten the basis of christian theology which is to be forgiven in this tradition, you need to confess first. donald trump never confesses to anything. the one time he apologized for molesting a woman in a criminal assault which was caught on tape, he tried to take the tape back, said he would sue the women who claim he assaulted them and call them all liars. this is not a confession. tony perkins forgot his own theology and replaced it with a theology of revenge on people he disagrees with politically. that's what's going on here. revenge of white american,

evangelical right-wingers and who they want to punch in the mouth is not just black americans, to put it in the president of the united states' words, who live in shit hole countries. so they're willing to put up with anything when it comes to moral degradation to see those ends achieved. i'm glad he put it in terms of revenge. at least he misspoke from his point of view but told the truth. >> i want to talk not just about the words and things donald trump has done but the policies as well. the quinnipiac polling outfit asked whether donald trump is a good role model for children. everyone but republicans said absolutely not. 9% of democrats said no, 67% of americans said no, 71% of independents said no. 72% of americans said, yes, donald trump is a good role model for children. he still maintains a 61% approval rating among evangelicals. that is down. it was 78% last spring.

but do you cut all of that down to this race issue and immigration, or is there some other reason they're clinging to him? >> it's kind of like the frog that gets boiled to death and never realizes it's going to die. this is more like the opioid crisis than a political movement. it started with reaction to what they felt is real pain of exclusion in losing the culture war on issues like abortions and gay marriage and so forth. now they've simply become addicted to this angry and vicious lashing out and reaction. at this point they can't kick the habit of the they're in deeper than they ever imaginmag. when tony perkins says something like what he said, if you ran the tape back 20 years ago, he would be aghast at anyone saying it. it's crept up on him. >> jerry fallwell junior tweeted something pretty shocking. he said jesus said love our

neighbors as ourselves but never told caesar how to run rome. he never said roman soldiers should turn the other cheek in battle or caesar should allow all the barbarians to be roman citizens or caesar should tax the rich to help the poor. that's our job. he got quite predictable blowback on twitter. he followed up by saying all the clowns commenting on my tweet below with mayor bowels is an uproar, should relax. you can be a good christian whether you vote conservative or liberal. what do you make of that? >> it amazes me. franklin graham went further to the right than his dad ever was. billy graham was pro choice in the 1970s when we talked to him about abortion as was dr. chris wall of the southern baptist convention.

evangelicals went from sending medical teams to haitis with the samaritan's purse which franklin graham started to defending aa man who called people living in black countries and brown countries, people living in shit hole countries. this is the same guy who said there were some good nazi's watching. again, it's the frog getting boiled to death. evangelicals switched from being who advocated to traditional reality to the chief american defenders of not only relativistic morality but all that used to be considered sacred trashed. they're defending a man who trashed fidelity in his own life and with the words he speaks nationally. they have trashed truth telling and have embraced this idea of everything being fake news they disagree with. they've even trashed common decency. what we're now watching, joy, as kind of an appendage of the trump presidency is one of the

greatest downfalls of a religious order, if you want to put it that way, we've ever known. only comparable with the breaking news of the vast phenomena of child abuse inside the roman catholic church. at that time the leaders themselves were saying, yes, this is bad and pretending not to go along. now the evangelicals have gone to the next step, become the instigators of evil themselves. when franklin graham defended donald trump, he's defending a man not only destroying the reputation of this country but has become the figurehead for, in a bad sense, the me too movement. the president himself a criminal assaulter of women who bragged on it and called anyone who accused him a liar. in a party that now represents the grossest underbelly of human prime mate behavior. how's that for the end of a movement talking about saving babies, remaining virgins until marriage, the sacredness and so

forth. it's a reversal that's mind-boggling. >> to say nothing of the idea that the evangelical movement is supposed to be preaching the word to the poor, the women, the immigrant. thank you. appreciate it. >> you're welcome. >> up next, the trump apology tour. es on every purchase, every day. not just airline purchases. think about all the double miles you could be earning. (yelling) holy moly, that's a lot of miles! shh-h-h-h! ( ♪ ) shh! what's in your wallet? man: shh-h-h!

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nothing says i'm not sorry quite like an extended from rex tillerson. on thursday donald trump announced in a letter to african leaders his secretary of state will visit the continent of africa which trump recently compared to a disposal for human waste. he said he deeply respects the people of africa. he tried to sidestep one diplomatic rift where he started another one. let's start with the africa visit. how might that play for rex tillerson to do the apology tour for trump? >> i think it's ridiculous that your foreign secretary does an apology for something that you stated and you said yourself, not credible. but not only that the president

of the united states in davos was complaining to theresa may that the press in the uk is very tough on him, that he would not show up in the uk if there are protesters. that she should plan protesters. he has no notion what democracy looks like and how it work. free press, separation of power, fr free protesters. imagine sending your secretary of state to african nations. he reminded me of persberscolon. this is the same nightmare we're seeing. african countries are offended but guess what? america depends on certain african countries for their national security and we have a

lot of soldiers down there. imagine these soldiers -- imagine if these countries do not share intelligence with the united states or share certain details about jihadist groups and others. we will all pay a price because of this recklessness. >> not only that you have china which is romping around the world and all over the african continent. trump just went to davos. >> he got bored also. >> yes. >> booed and laughed at. we remember pberscoloni. china is the biggest winner at this moment. other countries are making great deals with china. he made china great again because of his delusional nationalism that never worked.

nationalism for donald trump is cut tax for rich which davos is very happy about. but it will never be translated in to economic trickle down to the poorest people. we won't see that in the paycheck and the fact that the poor average man has nothing. what he can offer them is some scapegoats against brown people, against african nations, against immigrants, latinos. this is all he can offer them. some of them venting their anger against somebody else. the real anger should be vented against the people who are robbing your future from you. >> let's talk about the palestinians. this is the other thing donald trump has tried to -- he thinks he can solve peace in the middle east by sending jared kushner who has no experience and b, by threatening them. how will that play? >> i've been traveling around the middle east recently and jared kushner supposedly went to

some middle eastern countries and palestinian authorities and offer them the following. we'll give you a piece of jerusalem which is a neighbor outside of jerusalem and we will put a bridge that connects you to your holy site so you can visit and go outside of those holy sites. this is the genius peace plan that was rejected because it's preposterous. it's as if we're here on "30 rock" and all african-americans have to go to new jersey and we'll build a bridge for you to go "30 rock" and then go back. you just took the whole table out. you blew the whole table away. abbas is most moderate. i'm not a big fan. he's the most moderate of all the leaders we had so far. however he couldn't sign off on any of those things because trump is holding one thing over his head which is money for the poor. it's the money to protect

israel. let's remember and this is what most americans don't understand. america decided to give israel $39 billion but then give the authority some money so the poor cannot be so poor and desperate and have some kind of schooling. if we have freedom in palestinian we don't need to give them money, basically because you have a free market and a free economy and people can do whatever they want. instead we're enabling the occupation with more money to israel and some money to help the palestinians contain their people so they are not desperate enough to rise up against israel. >> it begs the question if the united states is no longer leading the free world who is? >> there's three or four countries. emmanuel macron gave the best speech in davos. he rejected trump. he talked about globalization

that should not hurt the workers. europe is back. basically we donated the middle east to russia. putin is king maker in the middle east. china is winning chi inning eco. >> thank you very much. we had you do the whole world. thank you. coming up we check in with earth two, cable personality sean hannity. that's next. my bladder leakage was making me feel like i couldn't spend time with my grandson. now depend fit-flex has their fastest absorbing material inside,

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. at this hour the "new york times" is trying to distract you. they have a story that trump wanted mueller fired sometime last june and our sources and i check with many of them are not confirming that tonight and the president's attorney dismissed the story and says, no, no comment we're not going there. how many times has the "new york times" and others gotten it wrong? >> welcome back to am joy. what you just heard was uber trump defender sean hannity on thursday about an hour after the "new york times" broke the story that trump had tried last june to fire robert mull terrify special counsel overseeing the russian investigation. but then about 40 minutes later after saying those words on his show, hannity was forced to admit on air yeah, okay, maybe that "new york times" story wasn't so fake after all. >> so, we have sources tonight confirming to ed henry, yeah, maybe donald trump wanted to fire the special counsel for a conflict. does he not have the right to

raise those questions? we'll deal with this tomorrow night. a shocking video of the day. this footage comes from arizona where you see that red suv, high-speed police chase. >> yep that really happened. squirrel. hannity pivoted right past the breaking news about trump wanting to fire mike mueller to show a high-speed car chase. joining me now is tiffany cross. jonathan capper and others from "the washington post". the whole "the washington post" contingent. the diligence and discipline over at fox by which they are maintaining this idea that donald trump did nothing wrong is kind of spectacular. but for sean hannity, that had to be painful. >> this is what surprises me -- not surprises me outrages me. i made this point on friday but it bears repaegt.

the hypocrisy of the right. how dare you disrespect the law enforcement by take knee. they are the loudest voices about talking how valuable law enforcement is to this society except when it comes to investigating the president. your people are tearing down the fbi. this is a disservice to their viewers. aren't we all patriots. don't we all want to know? our democracy was attacked by a foreign adversary and again like you said no. look at the shiny car chase. don't you want your viewers, these patriots who are flag waving, blue lives matter know exactly happened. they don't see their own hypocrisy. it's hard to swallow. >> you've written some columns this week talking about the evangelical right defining morality whatever trump is doing is morality. they define criminality as anything that can hurt donald

trump. you have sean hannity going after the "new york times" after he was hum lie it aed on that air. he said i'll never run with "new york times" anonymous sources. he said on the show that he had his own anonymous sources that were saying it wasn't true. >> right. >> dana? >> listen, joy, as hannity would say let's just deal with this tomorrow. i think it's unfair for you to point out this inconsistency and embarrass poor sean hannity on the air waves. what's going on here at fox, it's like a case of the right hand not knowing what the far-right hand is doing. within fox news, you have legitimate journalists like ed henry. you may disagree with him but keep up with some integrity. then you have the entertainment wing led by sean hannity who has admitted he's not a journalist then going out claiming he has

source, i guess, maybe it was his producer speculating in his ear or something like that. so we see this over and over again. even before this, this week, you had fox going crazy with the secret society and the missing cell messages going back and forth and why were they missing from five months. then you find out via a fox news exclusive oh, actually it was a technical glitch and there were thousands of fbi employees. it wasn't just these two. so they like quietly debunk their own conspiracy theory. >> it's bleeding over into the political people too. it's not just the fever swamps of right-wing media. senator ron johnson, you know, occupying the dignified position in the united states senate of wisconsin, having to walk back his own sort of insinuations that there's a secret society in the fbi saying okay maybe the two love birds were just joking. that is embarrassing and

humiliating for a united states senator. that's where we are. >> going back to something tiffany said, i'm still having a really hard time getting my head around the idea that the fbi is some kind of left wing organization. i mean, you know, maybe i've been misled for all of my life into thinking that the fbi is something other than a left wing organization and i think johnson is right. what's troubling, we expect fox news to be fox news, it's not a fact, oops it's a fact, i don't care. let's talk about it tomorrow. it's really getting into republican elected officials who are willing to put themselves out there essentially advocating the obstruction of a legitimate investigation headed, by the way, a man who himself is a republican. the republican party as a whole has now put itself in the

position where it is going to pay collectively an enormous price for trump and they didn't have to go there. early on a lot of people hoped will there will be republicans who will say no we want to follow this investigation through to the end. and now there are very few who have been really willing to get out there and be very outspoken and say we support what robert mueller is trying to do. and i think that's going compound the troubles they could face in the fall elections if the polls stay where they are now between now and november because they've totally wrapped themselves around trump's efforts to stop this investigation. >> not only that, jonathan they've gone a step forward. the white house is at odds with their own justice department. the justice department has said releasing this staff memo that was produced by devon nunez's staff at the house intelligence

committee which used some sensitive materials, some of it so sensitive that andrew mccabe the fbi director would only show it to mccabe personally himself, the rest of which they had to come to a room, a special room to view it. then nunez goes and takes this information to concoct a memo not to help the gage but to try to smear the fbi. now donald trump, he has to obey and further the laws of the united states wants this memo released even though the justice department says it could compromise national security. what's what the republican party is up to now. >> we now have a president of the united states who doesn't revere the constitution. doesn't revere the office that he holds, the presidency. everything that this government is posed to be doing to his mind is about him, about donald trump. the justice department is supposed to serve him. the fbi director is supposed to be loyal to him.

the attorney general is supposed to be loyal to him. it's all about him. when he put his hand on the bible and put his left hand on the bible and raised his right hand he swore to protect and uphold the constitution not to protect and uphold himself. this earth two thing is actually even more sinister than i think our viewers realize and understand. i might be saying something that might get me in trouble with our bosses, joy, but there's a reason why fox news per peripetn of the earth, two this done matter, most americans watching cable news are watching fox. so you have a whole chunk of the country that has been fed falsehoods and ugliness for years, if not a couple of decades since they came on the air and so they have been able to bat back all of these things,

all of these credible stories, credible allegations, and have a whole chunk of the country believe them. you know, it should tell something to people, whether they are watching us here or any cable channel that if a newspaper, the "new york times" or "the washington post" comes out with a story and then that story is reconfirmed by the other paper that didn't get it first within minutes, including fox news is able to confirm it on their own within minutes, that should tell any thinking person, any person with judgment, any person with any manner of discernment that there's a there there. and right now earth two is floating around in sheer ignorance and those folks there -- not that they don't care. i don't think they know enough to care. >> it's an interest being point. i'll ask a question about this scenario. there's one way in which earth

one and earth two their orbits intersect. you're seeing an argument from some people who are considered on earth one that maybe there should be more accommodation with the folks on the other side of that sort of universe, the plane. there was a very much maligned piece in the "new york times" yesterday in which he essentially argued that people who want immigration reform ought to sit at the table with steven miller who we all know his back brown, this person was a white nationalist, opposed to nonwhite immigration. let's go back to the 194 immigration act. so the idea that the answer to this sort of strangeness on the right is to accommodate and appease it. do you find that to be dangerous proposition or is that the only way to operate? >> it's a dangerous proposition. we saw this when trump got elected and all these people trying to extend an olive

branch. even dave chappelle who came on "saturday night live" and said we have to give trump a chance. we can go one step further steven mill certificate a racist. >> all the way back to high school. >> this is somebody who is ingrained in racist believes. the idea you can sit across a racist person and have a reasonable discourse about immigration reform is assinine. >> that's the problem where democrats find themselves. donald trump just said the entire continent africa, 55 countries are shit hole countries. i wonder if they are freight an

unrealistic frame. >> that assumes we're dealing in an ordinary time where you have to sit down with people who disagree with you. not about sitting down with people who disagree with you, it's about sitting down with people who are operating in this sort of a parallel universe. you can't make progress if they are not dealing with the same set of facts. we in the media also need to look at it and not say on the one hand, on the other hand. that's where like the conservative immediate area you're always going to have people out there who are alleging conspiracy theories. when you get up there on fox news and bless it without looking into it and say, well, trey gowdy said there's a secret society. or do reporting like others did the context of that secret society was in a text message discussing a beef cake calendar of vladimir putin not wearing his shirt. it takes on a slightly different meaning. it's our job to show some

independence from the zany things out there that will always be out there and not sit at a table with it and legitimatize it. >> that's the concern. that there's a strong normalizing desire among the media itself. thats to normalize trump. wants to have him have a moment where he's a norm jatal president. you won't have people accommodate, appease. >> i do that after the state of the union as we talked about earlier. but i think there's been a move, slight move away from that over time as the facts have built up. but on this argument about negotiating, i think we already tested this when lindsey graham and dick durbin and jeff flake and some others came up with an immigration proposal, they were actually trying to give ground to trump and say, look, we need to protect the dreamers.

you have said at least once in a while that you agree with that. here is a proposal. the problem with steven miller is that he blew up that proposal in the white house so he made the very accommodation that was talked about in that column impossible. so, if you're going say you need to negotiate in order to get a bill, well, sure, that's always true even in a strange administration. but they've shown no signs of wanting to engaging a normal negotiation. >> thank you. up next the man who could replace texas' favorite senator. shawn evans: it's 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave

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house? would you like them with a mouse? i do not like them in a house. i do not like them with a mouse. i do not like them here or there, i do not like them anywhere. i do not like green eggs and ham, i do not like them sam i am. >> hello. i was remimi hiy -- just rememb about the 2013 shutdown led by senator ted cruz. >> look we should not be shutting down the government. i have consistently opposed shutdowns. in 2013 i said we shouldn't shut

the government down. i went to the senate floor repeatedly asking consent to re-open it. >> senator cruz is up for re-election and faces a buzz worthy democratic democrat. he joins me now. thank you very much for being here. >> good morning. >> so, ted cruz denied that he had anything to do with 2013 shutdown. do you plan to use that very odd denial against him in his campaign? >> we were both elected to congress in 2012 he to the senate, i to the house. in that time i was holding town hall meetings with my constituent each and every single month so i could be accountable to them as i work on bipartisan legislation to expand mental health care access tofor

veterans. he was absolutely connected to and led the shutdown. folks in texas remember, understand and are going to be taking in mind when they go the ballot box in move to. >> let's talk about the most recent shutdown in which democrats denied mitch mcconnell the votes he would need in order to, you know, fund the government for that short term continuing resolution. did you support democrats move to withhold their votes? >> i did not vote for the cr. the last vote we took in the house was the fifth continuing resolution, short term budget funding proposal for three weeks since october 1 of last year. we should be able to fund the government for the full year. we should also be aabble to address the other issues. whether it's the children's

health insurance program. or ensuring 800,000 plus dreamers, who are in every way that's meaningful just as american as i am or you are, are able to stay in this country, thrive and contribute to their full potential ultimately as citizens. we're capable of doing all that stuff. i want to make sure we're working with republicans and democrats alike to make that happen and i'm not going to continue to vote for short term funding programs that don't allow us to realize our potential as a country. >> sounds like you were for the shutdown. is that an inconsistent position to blame ted cruz for the shutdown in 2013 but essentially been in favor of the shutdown this time? >> no. i'm in favor of funding our government for a full fiscal year. it's absolutely the lowest bar over which we should be able to pass. and if we continue to enable this kind of reckless governing we have on the part of the republican majority in the house and senate, the republican who is in the white house we'll get more of the same. i think it's time for democrats

to stand up and own those things that we care about, fiscal responsibility, being at the top of the list and meeting this moral moment and ensuring these dreamers are able to stay here in this country without fear of deportation and cricket to their fullest potential to our greater success as a country. >> let me get a few rapid fire questions to take your. chip is off the table. chip is off the table now. if the republicans do not bring a dream act bill to the floor on february 8th should democrats withhold their votes for another continuing resolution? should they shut the government down? >> we got stay strong, and make sure that we're standing up for those that need an advocate in congress. the first order of business, again, as i said earlier is make sure we fund the government for the full fiscal year. >> very good on message. should democrats shut the government down if there's no

daca deal? >> no. government should not be shut down. i don't think democrats can shut the government down in minority in both chambers and not have a democrat in the white house. we should work with republicans to fund the budget and keep those dreamers here in our communities. >> let's go through your poll numbers. your favorable rating the 16% in the latest polling in the texas tribune, unfavorable 13. don't know 15%. you have a lot of room to grow. in a head-to-head, ted cruz's favorable are pretty bad. 38% favorable, 45% unfavorable. don't know 6%. a new public policy poll matches the two of you up. he's at 45, you're at 37. texas is a tough state. hispanic voters, latino voters are large in population but tend to vote in low numbers compared to their population share. how do you do in texas what was done in alabama and change what we're seeing on the screen right now and get latino vote toers

turn out for you? >> on that poll when respondents know i don't take any help from corporations we're ahead on ted cruz. hispanic texans in our state -- spe [ speaking foreign language ] -- ending racial gerry mamander. we're going to every commune to make sure no one is taken for granted. everyone can participate in this critical election. our victory great for texas and critical for this country. >> if you got into the united states senate and the house were to return impeachment articles against donald trump, in your mind do you believe that donald trump has committed impeachable offenses? >> i believe there was the effort to collude with russia to

decide the 2016 election. i believe there was an effort on the part of the president to obstruct justice, firing the principle investigate orwho was looking into that potential collusion. i think there are grounds for impeachment certainly and i think as a member of the senate i would need to see all the facts but what we know so far is pretty much damning and i would like to see bob mueller be able to continue and complete his investigation and follow those facts as far and as high as they go so that we can make an informed judgment about what has happened and what we need to do going forward for this country. >> good luck to you sir. thank you for being on the show. >> thank you for having me. >> more am joy after the break. friends, colleagues, gathered here are the world's finest insurance experts. rodney -- mastermind of discounts

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it is i, george w. bush and you might remember the w. stands for what's up? >> former "saturday night live" cast member will ferrell returned to host the show last night and remind us of the last republican president pre-trump. >> i feel for donnie, i really do. i'm not a trump sceensitivizer.

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we're not just going say it's fake news and move on. mull sister best person to look at it, not me opine about something i don't know. i'm sure there will be an investigation whether or not president trump trierd to fire mr. mueller. if he tried to it would be the end of his presidency. >> senator graham made little news this morning with his agreement yes bob mueller should investigate reports that donald trump tried to fire him last year. yes trump should be the one getting fired if mueller concludes the story is true. joining the panel, david fromm. you're thoughts on whether or not this new piece of information that donald trump wanted to fire or attempted to fire bob mueller, do you think that that changes republican behavior, vis-a-vis protecting mueller and this investigation >> does it change their behavior? >> yeah. >> no, it does not.

the party will rally around him. there's a big difference between wanting to fire mueller and trying to that all kinds of -- a lot of republican defenders of donald trump are suggesting this was just an idea that flinted through his brain. we all have ideas. this was an order he issued to the -- that he wanted to issue to the white house counsel and only countermanded when the white house counsel indirectly not to his face threatened to resign. the ugly fact is the worse the situation is for mr. trump the more tightly the party rallies around him. >> not only that, tiffany, you have members of the administration doubling down on essentially denying what now has even been confirm by white house news. this is mark shore on fox news earlier today. >> i'm not aware the president

ever intimated he wanted to fire robert mueller. robert mueller is still the special counsel. don mcgann is still head of the white house office. there's no proven of collusion thus far with russia. the white house don't cooperate in every manner providing any document that special counsel has asked for. we've continued to comply fully. robert mull certificate still special counsel. >> there's a question of how far people would go to lie for donald trump. what he denied was confirmed by fox news. >> denying it on fox news. why would we think donald trump tried to fire robert mueller. not like he fired james comey or asked people who they voted for or denounced his own attorney general. it's ridiculous. i don't expect his administration at this point to say anything truthful. it's a painful process to watch sarah huckabee sanders come out every day and spit propaganda at

people. the base has not moved. i'm not sure it matters. it does and should matter with the republicans who have to go out and run for re-election. why would they fall on the sword for this and not speak out. there's a few, a republican from florida has spoken out about it. so there have been a few. silence from the leadership. not acceptable. >> kevin mccarthy on "meet the press" saying there's no need, actually has been one republican co-sponsor of a bill put forward by democrats to try to protect bob mueller from being fired. here's kevin mccarthy the house majority leader saying it's not necessary. >> legislation to protect mueller. >> i don't think there's need for legislation to protect mueller. if there's an issue to arise we'll take it up. >> do you see there's no need to create legislation to protect

mueller and bob rosenstein from being replaced with a flunky. >> house majority leader kevin mccarthy as normal as usual has his head in the sand. and as part of this whole -- kabul is not the right word -- but collective amnesia within the republican party or unwillingness to do anything that will rile the president, that will seem critical of the president because of what we were talking about in the last segment that folks on earth two have the people who apparently are in leadership positions on earth one afraid of what they will do. so kevin mccarthy has to, you know, placate those people in his base, within his congressional district but also within the base of the republican party. look, i think senator graham is right. if the president does, indeed, actually fire bob mueller in

however way he's able to do it, it will be the end of his presidency, i think for at least a lot of the american people, but even then you have to wonder, the only people who could really do something in terms of ending trump's presidency, either through impeachment are people in the republican controlled congress. and, again, these are the same people who have not seen fit to do anything that would hold this president accountable. under normal standards. i'm not some raving, you know, left wing liberal saying that the president is a bad guy simply because he's a republican. no, we've seen stories from moment one, from president-elect through now where he's done things that a normal president would be held accountable for if not impeached for. >> let's go to donald's golfing buddy lindsey graham.

here's lindsey graham on whether or not republicans should return mr. wynn's money. >> do you believe that money should be returned? >> well give a day or two to figure out, we should do of ourselves what we ask of the democratic party if these allegations have merit. i don't think we should have a double standard for ourselves. >> dana? >> well, look, in a general i find these things silly when each party gets the other one to purge the donations of whoever it was over time. but, you can go through the harvey weinstein period with the republicans demanding everybody return every last cent and not expect the same thing to occur here. he was the finance chairman of the republican national committee. he gave some $5.2 million in recent years, the vast majority of that to republicans. so, of course, it's fair game to

ask the question. will anybody do anything about it? we've seen over a long period of time here that in the trump era the usual responses, not the current response. >> speaking of, you know, strange adjudicatijuxtaposition. he was asked should trump get credit in the reductions in the jobless rate for african-americans. >> does he have a point that maybe the democrats have been giving us good lip service but no jobs, maybe you can say terrible things. put money in your poke. does that make him a good leader? >> no. money decent equate to happiness. you're missing the whole point. you treat people like human beings. and then, you know, that's the main point. >> good answer.

donald trump decided to attack him on twitter. please inform jay-z that because of my policies black unemployment is reported to be the lowest rate ever recorded. negative north america any aside that black diplomat has been going down, donald trump wants credit for that. your thoughts on that and him attacking jay-z. >> first, i should say, joy, i'm self-apointed honorary co-chair of the beehive and we don't take kindly -- >> i'll be careful. >> i don't know why he would upset jay-z followers. when the beehive buzzes it's a problem. it's buzzing. short sighted again. again his twitter is full of falsehoods. you do this on the eve of the grammys. so we saw what happened the last time when eminem dropped it, it went virtually. jay-z is a bigger star than eminem. beyonce is a bigger star than

everybody. it's stupid on his part to attack this group that has a huge fan base that's much larger than his fan base. i've never been more excited about the grammys than i am tonight. >> this is donald trump city. he did poorly here in the elections. the grammys are in new york. they are at madison square garden tonight which means you'll have two or three hours of potential -- donald trump used to have his name dropped in hip-hop. it's not like that any more. it's the opposite. >> yeah. those were the days, right? listen, two things here. one, jay-z -- this is the first time that the president of the united states has actually punched up. he is picking a fight with someone who is more popular than he is. someone who is richer than he is. someone who is even more powerful than he is.

i mean this is -- it's amazing to me. but the second thing is and i'm glad you mentioned this, the grammys are tonight. president trump is doing what he always does. he's trying to keep himself front and center in whatever conversation. so now the entire nation is going to be watching the grammys and talking about donald trump at the same time trying to figure out who is going to take him down rhetorically from the stage. and so trump wins from trump's perspective. >> well, let me go the executive vice president of the beehive, dana. does he win or wind up getting roast ed for three hours. who in the white house is advising this guy that you're literally going to invite the scorn of, you know, kendrick lamar is nominated. you have a lot of opportune for him to just get roasted. >> possibly.

this is the case of him firing up his own base, furthering the culture wars just like he does with the nfl. you can see this happen time and again. it hardly bears saying but, of course, the substance of what he's saying is ridiculous. before whenners campai he was c he said the employment rates are ridiculous. the same pattern continues. the unemployment rate continues to go down for blacks and everybody else. the stock market continues to set records. and all of a sudden he's taking credit for it. >> thanks obama is what most americans are saying. thank you very much. david is vying to be in the next election to be vice president of the beehive. shawn evans: it's 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day

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>> according to my next guest the global decline has come to america by the rise of donald trump. i recommend people take a look at this. you say in the second chapter, david, that donald trump did not get here on his own and you name a number of people that you believe enabled him from his fellow candidates, the republican party apparatus, the donor elite, the congressional party. do you think that there's a bigger enabler, meaning the republican party itself in its history over the last 50 years? >> he is part of a system and this is, i think -- i have two big arguments in this book that i think are important for people to understand. the first is as spectacular as the personality of donald trump is, presidents do not rule alone and the threat to democracy does not come from the high-handed

actions of one individual. they need to be part of a larger system. the trump ocacy is the system of donald trump's power. the second idea i want people to take away, donald trump is not aheaa hea heart attack to american democracy. it's not like he's going to overthrow the system in one night. this is slow decay. it's gum disease. it is a festering rot that will have its effect over months and years. >> you write in the book about donald trump ran on this idea also on the democratic side as well that the whole thing is rigged, everything is a scam, the system is rigged against us, whoever us is. you write that in the united states as in other countries, the great threat to congressional democracy has not been the demands by many but the fears of the few, the reduction of voting rights after restriction was intended to

thwart local majorities voting themselves such benefits. is that he's running to tell the common man that meez fhe's fixi system for the man. >> part of the trump idea is you don't have to -- the way to control democracy in the modern world and we're seeing this globally, you don't overthrow it like in the 1930s. that's counter productive. small suggestions can have the same effect as the abolitions all together. you win with less squawking and less attention. >> is trump an autocrat? >> trump is a would-be automatic craft ' autocr

autocrat. >> you wrote a piece called exit from trumpocracy. if his political party are refusing to con train hstrain h do we exit? >> elections matter but so do civil engagements. i end this book that there's hope. 2014 had the lowest voter turnout. widespread attitude of i've got two bad choices, maybe i won't participate at all. in 2017 we're seeing intensifying levels of civil engagement, demand for information. everyone who works in information media sees that people are interacting with our work with an intensity unprecedent unprecedented. >> it's interesting to watch yourself and other people who are truly republicans get slammed as rhinos by people who have given into trumpism.

how much pressure has there been on yourself to change your mind? how much pressure is there on your guys to change your mind, give in? >> you can see your friends succumbing one by one. donald trump does sometimes sign and the congress passes things that if you're conservative you're going to like. i think it's better that the corporate income tax rate be 21% than the old 35%. it's important to distinguish between your political ideas. i like lower corporate income taxes, less regulation of business, and your constitutional ideas which is i want to see those things done democratically. one of the things that i would say on the liberal side, imagine if the shoe were on the other foot, if you had jeremy corbin-like figure in the united states who was behaving in an autocratic way for left wing goals.

when liberals stood up to him, it would be ridiculous to say you're standing up to this leader but you don't agree on school choice, therefore we don't want to hear what you have to say. the tdecline of democracy is a scary challenge. if you ask the question is it essential to you personally to live in a democracy, that figure has been declining generation by generation. only 25% of scary times. >> yes. >> good book though. congratulations on that. the sub head is the corruption. thank you. >> more after the break. i just got my cashback match,

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download the xfinity my account app or go online today. that is our show for today. up next my friend alex has the latest. are you going to be watching the grammys tonight? >> i sure am. can i say i hate it when you leave because we have so much fun. >> yes. >> we were singing songs, if only people could see that. >> and they don't get to. good day everyone. it is just about 9:00 a.m. here is what's happening. secret russia memo. president trump reportedly wants it released but the justice department says that's reckless. the president getting some support at this hour. >> i think it would be

appropriate that the public has full view of it. >> the president's words to fire robert mueller. the stiefate of the union. president trump's 23irs official kind, what message will he deliver? what does america want to hear from the president? we'll hear more next. we begin with reaction to the washington post report. it alleged it may have relied on politically motivated to justify it's request early in the investigation. here is house majority leader on why republicans should defie the justice department and release the memo to the public. >> they have been doing their