coverage of the president's state of the union address beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern. brian williams and rachel maddow will anchor. special coverage of the speech including analysis with our panel of political experts. right now "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace begins. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the gop war on the fbi is being waged today against the backdrop of a day tautant with russia. "washington post" reporting, "the trump administration under fire from lawmakers for not punishing moscow over election meddling said monday it will not implement russia-related sanctions mandated by congress last year because the threat, itself, is acting as a deterrent." a deterrent of what? donald trump's own cia director, now concedes that russia remains committed to meddling in american elections. but it's the gop war on justice that's generating the most upheaval and drama this hour. speaker paul ryan in remarks

today about last night's party-line vote to release a memo crafted by house intel committee chairman devin nunes and his staff, a move that the trump-run justice department deemed, quote, extraordinarily reckless, said this. >> there may have been malfeasance at the fbi by certain individuals. so it is our job in conducting transparent oversight of the executive branch to get to the bottom of that. sunshine is the best disinfectant. what we want is all of this information to come out so that transparency can reign supreme and accountability can occur. >> paul ryan's platitudes about disclosing the republican memo written by nunes who according to democrats on the committee has not even read the underlying intel, comes on the heels of paul ryan rebuffing fbi director chris wray and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who fought to protect the country's most sensitive secrets. the "washington post" reporting that earlier this month, fbi

director chris wray, deputy attorney general rod rosenstein trekked to capitol hill in a last-ditch effort to avoid giving republican lawmakers access to intelligence they considered so sensitive that it could not leave their control. house intel committee chairman devin nunes has been agitating for information, which included investigative documents, interviews with top fbi officials, and texts between fbi employees. the "post" reporting ryan, however, was unmoved. nu in nunes' committee, he argued, deals with sensitive, raw intelligence and this case was no different. it's worth reminding our viewers nunes stepped aside from his committee's work last april while house investigators looked into ethics charges against him. the "washington post" writing last april that nunes has come under fire in recent weeks for speaking publicly about classified foreign surveillance reports he viewed on white house grounds. but that gave speaker paul ryan no pause. the "washington post" reports

that wray was also rebuffed by the committee when he asked to brief house intel committee members before they voted last night. the "post" reporting today, quote, wray, the fbi director, has seen the memo, but it's unclear whether the justice department remained opposed to its release. schiff said that wray raised concerns about the memo after viewing it and asked the committee to allow him to brief the members before voting on its release. they did not do so, he said. to help us better understand how these developments create a relatively unprecedented backdrop for tonight's state of the union address, we're joined by favorite reporters and guests for the hour. with us from the "washington post," white house bureau chief phil rucker. from "the new york times," chief white house correspondent peter baker. with us on set, republican strategist and msnbc contributor steve schmidt. kimberly atkins, chief washington reporter for the "boston herald" and msnbc contributor. and john heilemann, nbc news and msnbc national affairs analyst. phil rucker, let me start with

you, because it's your paper's superb reporting on all of these efforts by chris wray, the trump-appointed head of the fbi, who went up to capitol hill with rod rosenstein, made the case for not putting this information in the hands of devin nunes who one ultraconservative trump ally said to me if a left-wing plot to sort of infiltrate the fbi and doj were going to be uncovered it wouldn't be by devin nunes, not really highly regarded by national security establishment folks on the far right. talk about, though, what chris wray has been through in efforts to keep this information from being politicized. >> he's trying to protect the sources and methods at the department of justice and at the fbi that he feels would be compromised by the public relice of this memo, but he's also manage the white house and ultimate boss, president trump, who would like to see this come forward, feels like this memo would be a way to discredit the

overall russia investigation and expose what trump has felt all along has been political motivationbehis behind what he s a witch hunt here on russia. it's a pretty extraordinary moment, though, because traditionally the white house shouldn't have anything to do what the department of justice is doing and what the fbi is doing. but it's a very political situation and quite tenuous and has a lot of longtime law enforcement leaders quite upset and bothered by what they see. >> peter baker, i just hung up with a former, very senior national security official who worked in both the obama era, intel agencies for multiple presidents, democrats and republicans, who said he's sad and frightened. he said the fisa process is one of the most incorruptible processes. i wonder if you can speak to what we sort of set this up with, the fact that devin nunes was removed and investigated

because of his shenanigans regarding fisa intel. he's now refusing to let the director of the fbi brief his committee about raw fisa intel to help inform them before they vote. can you talk about to us just how plainly corrupted the house intel committee process appears from the outside? >> well, certainly isn't going to build credibility with president trump's critics that it's a party-line vote and a memo written by republicans that the minority doesn't agree with. that's, unfortunately, the state of affairs in congress these days where both parties take the same set of facts then see them through a completely different lens. it makes you wonder, okay, what are these facts, how should we evaluate them? we don't know because we haven't seen the memo yet. but are they presented in a dispassionate and objective fashion or are they presented selectively in a way that's intended to achieve a political

goal? is it possible the fbi, in fact, ba acted badly? the inspector general report hinted at in the last 24 hours suggests there may be some issues there that are worth investigating and worth evaluating. the problem is if it becomes a partisan thing, party-line thing, where one party is focused on it for its own goal, the other party is not focused on it, focused on it in a different way, it leaves obviously a lot of people scratching their heads trying to figure out what it is we're supposed to believe here? >> do you think the fbi director is one we should believe here? >> yeah, i mean, i think, look, he's a guy who's president trump's appointee. he's not obviously got a stake in the previous fbi leadership's handling of this. certainly you would think he would have a more, you know, more reason to be, you know, open about the previous regime's mistakes if he thought mistakes were made, but he's obviously representing the institution. the institution is concerned about the release of this memo

and concerned about, perhaps, you know, a version of the facts that might not tell the full story in his view. we don't know for sure, again, because we haven't seen this moem mo memo yet. the republican majority's refusal to allow the democrats to release their own memo which would take the same facts and present them in a different way. >> phil rucker, do you think the president enjoys seeing his current fbi director basically rebuffed and humiliated by being turned down by paul ryan when he and rod rosenstein went up and asked devin nunes not get his hands on this sensitive information and being turned down by the committee, by devin nunes, when asked to brief them? do you think the president delights in seeing his fbi director really publicly, i don't know another word, publ publicly humiliated. does the president enjoy the weakening of the fbi even under hisappointee? >> i don't know if he enjoys the weakening of this particular fbi

director personally, but certainly he agrees that this moem memo should come to light. he wants to see the nunes memo made public, thinks it will help vindicate his point of view on the russia matter, what he sees as the politicization of the russia investigation. and he's been highly critical of the fbi, and what he has called the deep state and short of the law enforcement community that he feels has been compromised throughout the past year and a half of this russia investigation. sure, he appointed the director of the fbi, but if, you know, his political ally in congressman nunes and chairman nunes is going to have his way over the fbi, i think the president's very happy to see that. >> steve schmidt, can you speak to just the president's complicit -- he's sitting there watching his fbi director make the case to protect classified information. he's watching this. i understand from democrats on the committee that there's constant communication between the president and devin nunes. the president could simply have picked up the phone and backed

up or reinforced his fbi director's case about classified information. obviously, the president wants sensitive, classified information in the public domain and this former national security official, you heard my end of the conversation, saying he's sad and frightened. this is is not a man who frightens easily. >> no. what we're seeing is a complete abregation from devin nunes. obvious ga obligation to conduct appropriate oversight over the nation's intelligence agencies but to support in the end their strengthening as institutions that are necessary to protect us from foreign threats. including from the russian federation that beyond certainty interfered in the united states election process and maybe in a way that materially benefited the president. there's an investigation under way that has already indicted three top trump advisers, and we

know that there have been a series of dishonest statements from the president, the vice president, the attorney general, discounting their relationships with russians, and we've seen the political smearing, attack, and firing of the deputy director of the fbi or his resignation precipitated by these political attacks. this is not normal in a democracy, in a republican democracy, with fidelity to the rule of law. we have traditions of independence in h these agen agencies. the reality is the fbi, the concept of the rule of law, and the justice department, they have been now attacked directly and fiercely by the republican majority in the congress, abe d by a television network spinning all manners of conspiracy theories alleging a deep state

conspiracy that's subverting the constitution and all aimed at one thing, which is undermining the integrity and the findings of the mueller investigation. this is a very, very serious moment in this country. and it's a serious moment because the institution that is designed to guard the american people in the constitution in this case is the congress and the majority party from the speaker, to the chairman, is utterly failing in that duty. >> all right. someone who's not failing, let's bring in democratic congresswoman jackie speier, a member of the house intel committee. thank you so much for joining us. i wonder if you have trust and confidence in chris wray as director of the fbi. >> well, i want to believe that i have trust and confidence in him. i wonder to what extent he, like so many other republicans who used to stand up to the president, have shrunk from their responsibility to put the american people first. >> have let me -- >> i think time will tell. >> i want to ask you about this

reporting that he went up to the hill and he and rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, trekked to capitol hill on a last-ditch effort to avoid giving republican lawmakers access to intelligence they considered so sensitive it could not leave their control. he was rebuffed by paul ryan who said, oh, you can trust devin nunes, never mind he had to recuse himself and was investigated by the ethics economy for his handling of classified fisa intel. really the most sensitive kind of information you all deal in, right? >> that's correct. and the department of justice said in a letter to the committee, to devin nunes, that it would be reckless to release this very sensitive document to the public, and furthermore, said that it violated the agreement between, or among, the speaker of the house paul ryan, the hipse committee, the intelligence committee and the department of justice. so they have just absolutely

thrown out their word, the constitution, the respect for the department of justice and the fbi, they are on a vendetta. they are going do stop at nothing less than trying to tear down these two institutions, department of justice and fbi, and more specifically, the mueller investigation. i think once the transcript of our open hearing comes out tomorrow, it will be perfectly clear, it is stunning how the chairman refused to answer the question. did mr. wray ask that any element be somehow redacted? or was any element not supposed to be made public because it was too sensitive? he would not answer that question. the chairman would not answer the question. he asked, furthermore, one of our colleagues, asked furthermore if they had been in communication with the white house. with anyone in the white house. again, they would not answer the

question. so, it's pretty obvious, i think, to most people that this is all part of a quilt that's being woven to promote the messaging, the script, from the white house, and to shut down the mueller investigation. meanwhile, we've already had two guilty pleas and two indictments. so, the mueller commission is delivering to the american people under the constitution and the last thing we need is to have it put down. >> do you think that's all related to what has been a waning interest from republicans in the house and the senate to back legislation to protect mueller and permit him to take his investigation to its conclusion? >> i think so. i think what we have seen is that, you know, members lose their backbone when the president speaks out critically about them, and so we have seen

many incidents over the last few months where members who have shown a great deal of conscience have somehow lost it over the course of a couple of tweets from the president. >> i stopped believing in coincidences about 15 months ago. i wuonder if you believe it's a quince debs coincidence there's news out today reported by the "the new york times" that the sanctions against russia won't be imposed, they don't need to be imposed because just the threat of sanctions is adequate, which was certainly not the case advocated by democrats or republicans when it came to sanctions for russia. or anyone else, frankly. >> this is a truly stunning act by the white house. you have the congress of the united states, democrats and republicans, overwhelmingly support the imposition of sanctions on russia and a number of other countries, and it was a veto-proof bill that the

president felt compelled to sign but there was one little language piece in there that provided that it could be waived if there was evidence that the cyber activities by russia had diminished. well, there's no indication that the cyber activities from russia have diminished. so how is it that a bill that was signed into law by this president is not being enforced? >> it's a stunning setup for tonight's state of the union. i appreciate your spending some time with us. please come back. we appreciate you. >> all right. thanks, nicolle. >> thank you so much. kimberly at kins, your thoughts? >> well, you know, very much in line with thereaat, i was speak to a former department justice person, what do you think the point of a constitutional crisis comes? he said, no, we're already in the constitutional crisis. it's not like watergate where one or two incidents sort of fueled this. this has been happening in slow motion, in real time, for

months. the undermining, first, of intelligence agencies over -- >> before his inauguration. >> right. over whether or not there was actual russia meddling. now the systemic undermining of the justice department and the fbi. the firing or threats of firing, i mean, how many people, sally yates, james comey, christopher wray. >> rumors about rosenstein now. >> rumors about deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. it's this constant steady drum beat. now you have the republicans on the intelligence committee are falling right in line and providing cover for this very systemic effort to undermine all the agencies that pose at least in the president's mind any threat to him moving forward. so there are people who are terribly, terribly concerned about this. that this is already at the point of constitutional crisis. >> heilman, you asked a question this morning that lit social media and television on fire about whether some of these people are agents of the russians. it's a plausible theory when you -- i suppose it could all be

a coincidence that we're not going to enforce our russia sanctions, that devin nunes was investigated by the ethics committee for mishandling fisa intel and now he wants to have a vote on fisa intel without letting the director of the fbi, who sort of stewards and shep d shepards fisa intel -- i suppose they could all be coincidences. the stakes are nothing less than understanding the extent and degree of the russia question. >> the greatest foreign policy, national security scandal, of our lifetimes, maybe the history of the country. look, i raised this question this morning, i was not, perhaps, as precise in raising it as i might have been. you don't have to think devin nunes is a russian agent to think there's a possibility he's been compromised by the russians. talk to people in national security circles, intelligence circles, former fbi agents, they don't much suggest he's on the payroll of the kremlin as the possibility that he's a useful idiot and a dupe who is doing the kremlin's business in how he's prosecuting this case. i asked the question of a couple

of democratic congresspeople who all said, well, we don't want to ascribe motivation to him in sort of i hope not, one democratic senator, one democratic congressman. no one laughed me out of the room. no one said it was absurd to suggest that. the reality is there are a lot of people in intelligence circles talking about it all the time and talking about it since devin nunes began the parade of ridiculousness and corruption that has been his role in this investigation from the very beginning. from the moment that the house intel committee started on the russia investigation, devin nunes has behaved like a partisan political hack who is not concerned with getting to the bottom of what happened in 2016, but with protecting the president at a minimum and with doing, whether implicitly, explic explicitly, intentionally, unintentionally, the good business of russian interest in the united states. again, i don't have any particular insight into the man's -- into the man's backgrounds, but i will say that whether or not he's been compromised, whether or not he is in some way working

explicitly and consciously for the russians, he is doing their business right now. and that is the important thing. it's also one of the many things we get distracted about here. in the end, there's a lot of questions about the fbi. they're real questions. we should all greet this i.g. report about the fbi. the clinton campaign -- >> there's no indication that christopher wray hasn't. >> the clinton campaign wanted to see the i.g. report. they had questions about how jim comey handled her investigation. >> right. >> republicans should want to see it. we should all want to see an independent investigation of the fbi, but this is not what we're now in the business of. we now have this house committee and devin nunes trying to say, forget about the i.g. report, we, in a partisan way, are going to investigate the fbi. that is dangerous. >> a quick last word to peter baker who spent time in moscow, knows a lot more than i do about russia. if you look at all the people contacted by russians, they are certainly more like carter page and george papadopoulos and i don't want to ask you if you think devin nunes is a dope or a

dupe, whatever heilman just said, but the idea of whitting r unwitting accomplices, devin nunes and the public-facing actions he's engaged in, would it? >> well, look, there are lots of reasons why devin nunes might be acting as he does. he has an interest as a republican with a republican president. he may sincerely believe that the fbi has mishandled these things. not for me to get into his motivation absent reporting on that. but i think that, you know, it's fair to say, you know, does this have the effect of, you know, muddying up the water? yeah, it probably does. that's the real question, is it going to confuse things? is it going to undermine the credibility of an independent investigation? if so, is it doing that because there's genuine issues there of concern or because it's a political defense tactic for the president? and that's, you know, that's the question a lot of people are going to asking, looking forward

to seeing what this memo says when they do release it. >> phil rucker, peter baker, thank you very much. when we come back, breaking through the gop fog machine. we'll show you what axios is calling the no knowns of the russia investigation. also ahead, a former trump opponent weighs in on the gop we war on the fbi and doj. and all the president's women. new reporting on how allegations of a payout to porn star stormy daniels have rocked the president's marriage. stay with us. today, the new new york is sparking innovation. you see it in the southern tier with companies that are developing powerful batteries that make everything from cell phones to rail cars more efficient. which helps improve every aspect of advanced rail technology. all with support from a highly-educated workforce and vocational job training. across new york state, we're building the new new york. to grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd.ny.gov.

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interviews, after reviewing records, the only thing they come back to is that, no, we haven't found anything yet. frankly, i think the people that are frustrated most isn't the president, it's the american people. they're stiickand tired with being inundated with russia fever. >> some stuff. the white house laments russia fever, republicans work to undermine the institutions investigating trump and russia, but through all the fog roll in from the right, the known knowns as axios put it in the russia investigation remain unchanged. the trump campaign worked with the republican party to weaken its anti-russia platform for the first time ever. trump revealed highly classified information to the russian foreign minister and ambassador in a white house meeting. top trump campaign officials met at trump tower with sketchy russians who had offered dirt on hillary clinton and said, i love it. on air force one, trump helped his son, don jr., prepare a misleading statement about that meeting.

trump admitted to nbc he fired fbi director jim comey because of this russia thing. michael flynn talked privately about sanctions of the russian ambassador during the transition and denied it to mike pence. flynn who pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi and works for bob mueller failed to disclose payments from russian-link eed entities. trump has repeatedly defended him. during the transition jared kushner spoke with the russian ambassad ambassador, a secret communications channel between the trump transition team and moscow. attorney general jeff sessions then a u.s. senator spoke twice to the russian ambassador then didn't disclose those two contacts during his confirmation hearing. and of course, what we all must remember, is republicans worked to discredit the entire american law enforcement apparatus when bob mueller was named special counsel, republicans widely praised him. "the new york times" justice reporter matt apuzo is back with us after his big scoop

yesterday. the truth is the most generous interpretation of how much focus is paid to the russia investigation is that "a," as you know better than any reporter, it's a very active and well-staffed investigation into russian meddling, and mandated by rod rosenstein. any other crimes unearthed. and two, it's far from over, and far from fruitless. >> well, look, let me -- i can take your list and i'll add to this. we also know that the trump justice department and a federal judge found probable cause to believe that a former trump adviser, carter page, was acting as a criminal agent of russia. that's how you get a fisa warrant. we know that there's been an indictment of two campaign aides, paul manafort and rick gates, for acting as unregistered foreign agents. we know that -- we know that george papadopoulos, a campaign aide, was targeted as part of a russian influence operation and

was told ahead of time that the clinton campaign e-mails have been compromised. and all of the other things you just mentioned and we know that the former trump national security adviser michael flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi about the conversations with the russian ambassador. we learned a little bit in the past year. >> is it still -- yeah, go. >> i want to say one thing quickly. here's the great thing about the list. mike allen put it together this morning. he added some stuff to the list. you know what the defining characteristic of everything on that list is? none of it's in the dossier. none of it -- >> great point. >> not none of if is contested material, the trump dossier, conspiracy theory. those are all big, huge, undisputed facts reported that no one denies. these are all just facts. and they're all big giant things that have happened. they're not the product of fever dreams or conspiracy theories or the trump dossier. and if it you lay them all out together and you have those things in the obama administration, bush administration, the clinton administration, the opposite

party and the party of the president, all of them, would have been up in arms in washington, d.c., in unison looking at this and saying, this is a gigantic problem and, yet, the republican party right now in -- obviously the trump administration, but the republican party right now says -- >> in toto. >> no big deal. the republican party's attitude is nothing to see here. >> what is wrong with paul ryan? i agree with john's characterization of the republican party, but why is the man who was the vice preside presidential nominee of the republican party, why is he where john just described, nothing to see here? you had sally yates coming -- i mean, these are -- what all the people that have been fired and smeared also have in common is they're all career public servants. matt has covered some of these people were as long as he's covered the justice department. it the there are people who've been in the offices, moved around when you get different directors and different presidents who have different priorities. these are -- i mean, what sally yates, andy mccabe, jim comey,

the general counsel baker was his last name, the people who have been fired all have in common, they were all witness to the interactions of a new president who was at best bizarre, at worst, on instructing justice in an ongoing way. >> sure. look, step back for a second. there is a global information war that is under way that is being directed by vladimir putin and the russian federation, and it is aimed squarely at the western democracies. not just the united states, but it's acutely focused on the united states and the aim of that campaign is to weaken the faith of the american people in vital american institutions. the point of the campaign is to sew chaos. when trust in institutions collapses, what happens next is there's faithlessness in the systems. free market american capitalism, republican democracy. all of these things become

questioned into the material benefit of the russian federation. what we're seeing now, and i don't know what devin nunes' most investigation is, i do believe he has a record of acting in bad faith. >> uh-huh. >> but clearly, the actions of the republican majority are lined perfectly with the interests of the intelligence services of the russian federation with regard to this matter. and now we routinely see on a cable news station calls for senior law enforcement officials to be locked up. political opponents to be locked up. and the bottom line is this -- >> and investigated. >> -- you can bring political pressure and crush the independence of the american justice system, the department of justice, concepts of the rule of law. that makes the united stat states'mistates' military vulnerable to political influence. makes other independence

agencies vulnerable to political influence. if you were to look in turkey at erdogan and his blueprint for establishing a turkish autocracy, it begins with the attacks on the fake news and the press. and then the relieving of senior military officers. and then the relieving and questioning of judges and prosecutors. >> right. >> the weakening of institutions. that's what's going on. these are the banana republicans. >> matt, the "washington post" has matched some of what you were reporting yesterday about the role of the i.g. report and andy mccabe's decision to step down. i wonder if you have anymore insights since we talked at this hour yesterday about what went into that decision, because since his news of his departure, i have had more people from republican and democratic administrations weigh in on his integrity, on the way he supported and had the backs of field agents that often what becomes political inside the fbi, i don't know why i'm saying

this to you, you know better than me, is when the field agents have a case and they take it to maine doj, sometimes that's where things get political. mccabe always had the agents' back. can you tell us if you have any more clarity on what led to yesterday's news of his resignation? >> well, look, it's no surprise -- it's going to come as no surprise there's an inspector general investigation that is close to issuing a report. that is not going to be kind to the fbi of 2016. i mean, we anticipate, obviously, that it's going to be very critical of senior fbi officials including jim comey and mccabe's decision to hold that press conference criticizing hillary clinton but not charging hillary clinton. we expect they'll probably be critical of the decision to send that letter to the hill. basically publicly re-opening the investigation the week before the campaign. lots of decisions along the way. i'm sure that those text messages between the fbi agents, you know, where they were

criticizing donald trump are going to come in for criticism. this isn't going to be a kind inspector general report, and that's what oversight's about. if andy mccabe's going to get beat up in that report, hey, that's, you know, that's what the i.g. is about. and, again, if you're the fbi director, and you know that's coming and you want to move mccabe into a different position, or you want to sideline him, that's his right as the fbi director. where this gets all dicey is because donald trump has repeatedly inserted h i eed himo this process and made public comments and people like nunes and the republicans on the hill have so gotten their hands into the career people of the fbi that decisions like this that, you know, in other administration might be fine, all have that, like, whiff of politicization to them. it's very hard to decide, wray making a smart decision ahead f of a damaging report and what is political meddling by the white

house? >> i want to ask if you've heard an example of an fbi director asking the speaker to withhold some sensitive intel from the fbi and being rebuffed then asking a committee about to vote on the release of sensitive intel to be rebuffed by the republican committee? have you heard of that happening to an fbi director who goes to the hill and asked for two things and is denied on two fronts in recent history? >> nicolle, add that to the list of things nobody's seen before in recent history. i mean, that's just -- just another day in washington. >> unbelievable. matt, thank you for spending some time with us. we appreciate you. our next guest is old enough to remember when bob mueller ran the fbi that protected the united states of america after september 11th. we'll ask him why the rest of the gop has come down with amnesia, among other ailments. that's next. this is laura. and butch. and tank. and tiny. and this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails,

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remember, why was america created? it was created because of the use of patient of power, capricious use of patient by a leader thousands of miles away. that's why america was created. this is 100 times bigger. >> what we're seeing here, sean, is what we would expect to see in a third-world country. >> sean, this is bigger than anything anybody can imagine. >> when you say that, this makes watergate like stealing a snickers bar from a drugstore. >> just like that. wow. that was quite an assessment of a document that none of those people have read. at least not legally. and let alone verified. while that kind of reckless hyperbole is weaponized for some time by those on the far right, moderate republicans have tried to take a more measured response. just today, paul ryan urged his colleagues not to oversell the facts in the memo, but considering what we just watched, is that directive too little/too late? joining us now is ohio governor john kasich. i wonder what you make of the

fact that chris wray, someone that a lot of people, you and i have worked with in the past, like and respect and consider honorable, was rebuffed by paul ryan when he went and said, hey, let the fbi and the doj hang on to this incredibly sensitive information, don't give it to devin nunes. why would paul ryan say no? >> i can't tell you, but there's two things that i am increasingly concerned about. the justice department and the fbi, you know, for me, they're almost like beyond reproach. now, if somebody does some monkey business in there, then it's up to the people that run the place to get rid of them, to sanction them. but we can't start trying to discredit the justice department and the fbi and then we're seeing everybody trying to discredit the press. if you discredit these institutions, they're the foundation, the bulk work of our country. and it's really becoming a great alarm to me that this is happening. you know, we can criticize the

press, they can say, oh, nicolle, you're bias, whatever, fine, but just think if you weren't around, if any of them weren't around. any of them. even the people that you showed speaking. the thing about freedom of the press is, it's the first thing autocrats want to do in other countries, they want to shut it down. and let people have their say. again, in terms of the -- let me tell you about the intelligence committee. i was in the congress for a long time. the intelligence committee, you just didn't mess with it. the chairman of these -- of the intelligence committee, when i was around, you just didn't -- you didn't do anything that was inappropriate. >> right. >> it was like a double secret -- >> they were republicans, right? after 9/11, i remember all of the programs that have since become very controversial, but in the months after 9/11, everything from the metadata collection program, remember how political those programs were? all of the democrats and all of the republicans who ran those committees were briefed almost concurrently with their creation and implementation. >> and a great concern out of

the intelligence committee was always leaks. and i remember there was a staff leaking out of the senate intelligence committee, and people went crazy, as they should have. >> yeah. >> and the fact is is that as a committee, that has to be above it all. they just have to provide leadership because they've got all the secret stuff and, you know, it's -- look, i was on the defense committee and we took briefings, things that were really very serious. i didn't talk about them. i didn't get casual with it. you can't do that. so this is the crossover in partisanship that we're seeing today in this country, which is, you know, it's really serious. >> so your name gets floated a lot in these kinds of conversations. juliana glover with a piece out today that says "a viable third-party candidate say someone with credibility inside one of these parties who bolts from it would have appeal to voters across the spectrum. there are many republicans wary of a second term for mr. trump, yet right now they're entirely reliant on the democrats to deliver a winning centrist candidate out of a primary process that almost made bernie sanders their 2016 nominee."

would you run as something other than a republican if you ran again? would you consider that, if you crossed the threshold to running -- >> nicolle, i'm a republican, it's been my vehicle, not my master. i see it slipping. what do i see it slipping on? trade. we just have -- we're kind of pulling ou ining out of asia an the chinese move in. we've always -- >> making china great again, right? >> yeah. well, we've always been a party that's been for free trade. at times i've been a skeptic of it, but we're free traders. we believe we should get our products. look, this started before we even had a president, continental congress sent adams and franklin and jefferson to go and do diplomacy and trade. it's really, really important. houb how about immigration? this one i don't get at all. i -- look, we are a country of immigrants. when they come, they bring vitality and energy and everybody wants ph.d.s. i'm all for ph.d.s. my grandfather couldn't speak

english. he wasn't a ph.d., but he contributed mightily to our country. so, yeah, you want to have a little bit more of a merit-based system, fine, but don't shut these other people out. and then this whole daca thing, i'm -- you know, here's the thing that i don't understand being in the congress. somebody needs to stick a stick in the spoke of the bicycle to say that we -- this has to get done. i can remember when -- >> george bush tried, president obama tried. i mean -- >> that's what i'm talking about the hill now. what are they doing up there? >> what you just described puts you out of step with your own party. >> no, no, no. >> would you run as an independent? >> no. >> donald trump ran against the things you articulated. >> it was a moment in time. >> you think what i just aired, you think the party, that doesn't represent the party? >> i think the party, there is a far-right angry part of our party, but i don't think that's where the bulk of party is.

you're a republican. >> i'm a nonpracticing republican. >> okay. the fact of the matter is that -- >> need practice, nicolle. >> let me tell you another thing, we're the party that is concerned about debt, we're the party of immigration, we're the party of free trade, we're the party of -- >> donald trump is against all those things. >> okay. that doesn't mean that i have to believe that. i have a right to define what it means to be a republican. >> save the country, run as an inde inde independent. say yes. i have to go to commercial break. >> i didn't hear the question. >> steve, you got a question for the governor. >> when you look at what's going on in the congress right now, paul ryan, abdication of responsibilities in my view, is he being faithful to his oath of office in this moment when we know a hostile foreign power, a great power with nuclear weapons, has interfered in our election process, and is engaged in an information war aimed at weakening -- >> i think what paul needs to say is let's get on with this

investigation. let's find out -- let it go where it needs to go and get it completed. it's like, okay, so it's been -- i don't know if it's been a year, but, you know, these things -- they're not overnight. >> right. >> these things take time. >> he's a constitutional officer. what is he -- what does he say to devin nunes in that speaker's chamber when he calls him in? >> what i think he should say is stop it, knock it off. maybe that's what he will do. i hope so. i know paul. he was actually a staffer when i was running budget committee. he's a very good and decent guy. i hope that's what he's going to do, going to put his country first. >> will you stay for the rest of the show? we have to sneak in a break. >> i don't know. unless heilmann is going to ask me a question. >> i can protect you from that. >> i got a boomer for you. >> all right. when we come back, the state of the union is often a showcase for the ties between a president and his first lady. with news accounts surfacing about donald trump's lawyers paying hush money to a porn star, the question -- the

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wish we got money back on gym memberships. get money back hilarious. with claim-free rewards. switching to allstate is worth it. . did you have a sexual relationship with donald trump? >> it's not just donald trump's state of the union that will have people turning on their tv's tonight, stormy daniels, the porn that that allegedly had a sexual relationship with donald trump will be on jimmy kimmel tonight. [ applause ] trump and the president have had a -- melania trip that skipped

the president's trip to davos will attend the state of the union. kimberly, let me start with you, some of the most powerful moments for the state of the union, democratic and republican presidents, are those interactions between president obama, michelle obama, the first lady's box is a part-time seat. all eyes will be on melania trump after this story broke about the president paying push money to a porn star. are you picking up anything about her attendant tonight? >> the first lady comes out, think usually gets a big applause, so it is so surprise that she is choosing to go and do that. beyond that how she is handling this incredibly personal moment,

i think she should be given the freedom and privacy to deal with it herself. i think someone parading their affair with a married person is gross. i think a lot of people will be pulling for her and whatever she chooses to do. >> donald trump often putting her in this position and people admire her stoicism, and two, believe as kimberly does that she should be given some sort of personal space to deal with the indignities of being married to donald trump, but no one gave hillary clinton much slack. >> i think they did. >> it's part of the conversation because the story was in the wall street journal before it became a topic on the news. >> i think it is partly -- it's

hard to answer that question. there is still, for all all of our culture, there is still some degree of renaissance about people talking about this. there is also i think -- trump, so much of his bad behavior related to women, and alleged bad behavior is priced into the stock. people kind of expect it. there is also just so much going on in the world right now. not to be labor the point but we're in the middle of an obstruction of justice charge if is hard to get oxygen in the room when those things are playing out. it seems, and is, in fact, trivial to the larger questions. >>. >> i think character should matter in everything.

>> did opportunity matter to the evangelical leaders that backed trump. >> don't lump them all together. let me say something about the state of the union tonight. one spaesh, no matter what it is, won't change anything. it took me a long time winning an election to be able to build support among the people from across the board. there is soe much polarization that the left won't listen and no matter what the right will like it. it is just a mess and i have never soon it like that. it is just really a shame. you know what hope is, though? those people in the middle who are neither far right nor far left reacted to trump an the people in the middle, and there are so many of them, and the my

len y -- millennials and gen x may need to make the changes. >> i think tonight when you see women lawmakers wearing black, a record number of win running for aufts, i thi office, i think that is bringing oxygen into the room. let's talk about the behavior of the actors. the president and these other people that were the wrongdoers. i think that is what the lawmakers coming into tonight want to put the focus on. >> michelle goldbeirg says plea, for the love of god, don't pass him for just staying on prompter and not being ludicrous. >> the great act of optimism was lincoln's insistence that the

capital dome be completed in the civil war. this is at the center of american democracy. we see the sue board nation of the rule of law. insu assaults on institutions by a major party. we see them willing to defend the president on all costs. the president of the united states walks into this chamber tonight in an hour of growing crisis and the assault, the assault that is being directed with the misinformation and vital american institutions and no matter what he says tonight, his loss of moral authority that occurred in the last year in charlottesville. it does nothing to unwind those things. >> yes, we see lowering the bar

in politics, but we have a crisis across the country in sports, business, religion, that is what we have to think about and how do we fix it? bottom up, we have to do what i we do to make things the better they are. are they under fire, are they under attack. >> cavs or warriors? >> cavs, some things i have to do. we need to go out in the draft though. >> we started with christopher ray, talking about unprecedented for an fbi direct tore be rebukes and rebuffed. >> i think the speech tonight is close to meaningless and it is close to meaningless because we saw him give a speech last year.

his first big speech to congress, and it had less than no connection with anything that followed in the next year. whatever he says tonight will have zero connection with the course of last year. theater, great, but real consequence, zippo. thank you to my guests, that does it for our hour, i'm nicole wallace. special coverage of the state of the union is continuing with my friend here chuck todd. >> i have friends down here, we could get you down here, come on down, it's a blast. >> if it's tuesday, the state of our union is increasingly fragile. this is none