good morning, everyone. i'm alex wilt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york at the half hour. here's what we're watching for you. an even more fractured congress this morning o. nearly 24 hours since the release of that gop memo alleging the fbi and the justice department abused their surveillance authority to target a trump campaign adviser. and house intel democrats get ready to push for the release of their own memo. it's unclear whether there will ever be a working relationship with republicans on this matter. >> this all began on march 20th when james comey testified before our committee in the first open hearing and said there was surveillance going on of the trump campaign. they viewed that as utter

disaster, as did the white house. now, why is that a disaster? it's only a disaster if you view your job as basically protecting the president and not finding out the truth. >> these are the same democrats who never wanted to start an investigation. these are the same democrats who blocked our subpoenas or tried to block our subpoenas back in august. they tried to block our ability to go and get the records from fusion gps that led to a lot of discoveries in this investigation. so these are not honest actors. they were they're not being honest actors. >> ali, with a good morning to you. let's get a sense of the mood at the white house now in the aftermath of the release of this memo. >> well, good morning, alex. i think that the president actually was talking yesterday in the oval office as that memo was coming to be released to the public. and he said then it's a disgrace what's happening in this country. he said people should be ashamed. so he's not necessarily tamped

down on the politicization of the intelligence communities that this memo has lent to. and i think, you know, the white house cleared the way for its release despite intelligence community objections. the fbi said it had grave concerns about this memo coming on out because of some inaccuracies it has within it. this memo, this document is kind of a pick your own ending in terms of what you want to conclude from it. republicans like devin nunes and his group that wanted it to come out can say, look, there is bias against this administration and the fbi and the doj. on the other hand democrats like adam schiff and others who didn't want it to come on out is saying it is a partisan attack against our communities. it is one of those things where you have both sides of it. and it is kind of an op ed style memo in and of itself. when don mcgann said, when it was released, the opinions in this document reflect the opinions of the author and reflect the views and judgments

of the author. so it is kind of partisan on both sides and it gives a point of view. >> that last point really you can't forget that last point. it reflects the views of the author. are white house officials saying anything about what the president wants to see happen with rod rosenstein? >> you're not the only one looking for that answer. the president left it open-ended, which did leave some concern yesterday among people wondering is this the beginning of the end for rod rosenstein. white house officials publicly and privately are saying that's not the case, at least right now. the thing we're watching for is sometimes when white house officials talk for the president, that's not always what pans out. so you do have to weigh what the president himself has said, which yesterday when we asked about his confidence in rod rosenstein, he said you figure that one out, versus what white house officials are saying, there are no discussions about

firing rod rosenstein right now. so that's the case until possibly the next trump tweet. that is what we're watching right now. >> with your help. thank you so much, ali. let's bring in zerlina maxwell, director of progressive programming for sirius kxm. joe watkins, author of the new pc. joe, i want to get your impressions 5of this memo. do you see the president gaining anything from the release of the memo politically speak something. >> well, yeah. he's gained -- there's been an attack on the fbi. and clearly that hurts the institution. i mean, this is the first time in recent memory that the white house has gone after these investigative agencies.

overall it has an impact on the way in which the american public sees the fbi. so, yeah, donald trump gains something from this attack. i don't think it's good for the country. i don't think that it's right or fair to politicize these agencies. i don't think that the fbi is deserving of this kind of attack. but i think that it's probably been successful, nonetheless. >> what about, zerlina, since you worked for the clinton campaign, the role in that helping to fund the steele dossier? does it make the clinton campaign more or less culpable in everything that led up to the fisa warrant? >> well, i think even in the memo itself it talks about how the original fisa warrant that the fbi got on carter page predates his time on the trump campaign, it predates any of the counterintelligence piece of this investigation. and so the clinton campaign's

involvement was disclosed. not specifically saying the dnc and the clinton campaign are a part of the steele dossier. but the fact that it came from a partisan source was something, according to the "washington post" and other outlets, that was disclosed as part of the on original application. there are two reasons why this memo essentially is a sham. one, it articulates that the fisa warrant was renewed three separate times. in order to do that in this process, there's a high standard. and you need new information each time you come back showing that the wiretap bore fruit. ulle can't come back with the same original application. saying it was based on the dossier is misleading. on the last page of the memo it articulates in july 2016, the fbi had opened the investigation because of george papadopoulos and not carter page. so the memo undercuts its central argument in the text.

>> what george papadopoulos said to officials, and australian officials. >> right. >> and with the fisa warrant, it has to be reuped every three months. if there is not something, it goes away. that happened with paul manafort. he had a fisa warrant. it went away. another one was opened later because of new information that was found. again, this with carter page, they clearly thought they were getting something, enough to warrant the fisa warrants every three months. the thinking in the white house memo, rather from the white house on the memo, was its release would help bring the investigation to a conclusion. does that happen now? does it absolve president trump of anything? >> no. as i said on this program months ago, this was part of a campaign to undermine the fbi and law enforceme enforcement. it would be untenable to have fired mueller.

but that's the way sit is going. i'm dubious because this has turned into a clown show conspiracy. imagine this whole thing never had to become public. if the congress wants oversight on the fisa courts, they can do that. they don't need to release a memo. the only reason to release the memo is for one reason, it's political. we are supposed to be devin nunes, who is a politician, we're supposed to believe that his motives are pure and nonpolitical over a 27-year law enforcement veteran who after 27 years has become political. it is absurd. >> okay. that's a pretty strong statement right there and the way in which you said it. joe, speaking of the potential of firing mueller, are some asking whether the president wants to use this to get deputy a.g. rod rosenstein fired. look at this exchange between trump and a reporter yesterday. >> >> you figure that one out.

>> so i'm going to ask you to interpret that. have you figured it out? will we see at saturday night massacre? >> i would bet that the president is after rod rosenstein. i think it's fairly plain to say he is. and of course if he goes after rod rosenstein, then he gets to appoint somebody in rosenstein's place, and that person could see reason to fire robert mueller, which would trigger a constitutional crisis. mueller cannot be fired. his investigations should be allowed to go on unimpeded. rosenstein is clearly in trouble here with the president. >> i'm curious how the -- and i will get this to zerlina first. the response from christopher wray. here's part of the memo he released to the fbi community yesterday saying we speak through your work. we do that work and we stay laser focused on doing great

work, even when it's not easy, because we believe in the fbi. clearly it has got to be a morale issue. zerlina, what do you think the gop will do in terms of interpreting that? >> christopher wray is in a really tough position. he's a trump appointee, the person who came in after the president abruptly fired james comey. so he is supposed to be the person who is a trump ally, according to the white house, or at least in trump's mind. but he's correct. the fbi and the department of justice are separate entities and they should be independent from the political conversation that's going on. and i think that his memo was meant to seasonally say to the white house, cut it out, stop attacking our most precious institutions. we need u.s. attorneys and the fbi who are investigating all sorts of crimes all over america to have that credibility when they go into courtrooms and they go in and speak to grand juries and witnesses in their cases. >> rick, is that how the gop is

going to interpret that memo from christopher wray? >> look, i hope not. i'm sure will and some will want to use this memo for political advantage. again, this is a political document, not an investigatory document. it never had to become public. sit only out there to under nine, as joe says, rod rosenstein with the hopes of stopping this investigation. or at least if there is a finding by the mueller investigation detrimental to the presidency that they will be able to undercut it. that's the whole purpose here. someone has to stop it. jeff sessions had a little bit of a defense of rod rosenstein yesterday but it was a little weak-kneed. sessions showed leadership behind the justice department in support of the fbi. >> all right. you guys sit tight. i'll speak with you all in just a bit. coming up next, reactions from capitol hill on the nunes memo. the next hour, it is like the days of the cold war. new worries about the u.s. showing off its nuclear fire

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i've had several meetings with mr. rosenstein, and i like him personally. and i think that he can fix the problems over at doj and we're willing to work with him. >> so you don't think he should be fired from his job? >> well, look, that's not my decision. all i can say is that mr. rosenstein has a long career. but, look, he's never really been in washington, d.c. >> well, that was the house intel chairman in his first interview shortly after the memo he co authored was released. despite objections from the fbi and the justice department. joining me here is steve cone of tennessee. two weeks in a row. good for me. >> doesn't it sound like an oxy moran to say intel chair and nunes.

>> i'm not going to go there. i want to get your reaction. you may have just said that to what whaeur than nunes was saying there. when you listened to the president in the oval office yesterday, didn't it sound like rod rosenstein's job was safe? >> it's not safe. trump will do whatever he can to get away with what he's done with the russians. he knows what he did with the russians during the campaign. he knows what the russians have on him. that's affecting our government. that's why the sanctions were passed almost unanimously were not as imposed as quickly as they can. that's why he hasn't released his taxes. that's why he loves putin. just while about vladimir. we have a foreign entity, our most feared and re-viled enemy, russia, who despises the whole idea of democracy and free government and free press take over and have an influence over

our president that is harmful. it's disgraceful, so to speak. >> let's look at the last 24 hours. we have had time to pore over this memo. if it does not change the russia investigation as democrats claim that it may, what's the harm of putting this memo out there? >> well, it destroys the camaraderie, the fbi and the justice department. they've got to feel like they've been picked on, they're being attacked. >> christopher wray had to put out that memo to boost morale. >> wray is a great guy. it revealed sources and methods that never should have been released. this was something that was created. this wasn't created to help the intelligence committee. it was created to be released. and it was created to be released without the democratic memo to respond to it being released contemporaneously because it is all political show. government and the intelligence committee, which is supposed to

be sack row sanct is being destroyed. we don't think of it that way, and we won't again. this is simply a four-page, poorly drafted, shallow memo written for the purpose of he being disclosed and creating a side show so we won't talk with what trump has done with russia, why he doesn't want mueller to go forward, why he doesn't release his taxes and all the other things he's done. the election was tampered with by the russians. intelligence has told us know. we know it. we have done nothing to stop it. and pomp peyo said they're going to get involved in the 2018 elections and they have done nothing to stop it. this is the biggest story in the united states of america and we're talking about the side show which is what president trump wants and he learned from roy cohen who is resting in

hell. it will be discussed on monday. adam schiff will try to have it released. if it is, it will be great. it will let the full facts be out there and show all the information that the fisa judges had before them, they had plenty of information, knowledge that there was political operatives involved. carter page is a side show. you have to think why did trump hire carter page? nobody in their right mind would have hired carter page. with his russian contacts and his limited ability and questionable psychological state. it should have been released contemporaneously. the fact is, neither should have been released. adam schiff tried to get the intelligence committee to have a full hearing a questioning of the fbi before the entire congress in a classified setting as the republicans voted it down. they didn't want to question the fbi. they wered to create a show. this is like al capone taking on the irs.

it's absurd. >> i'm going to let that be the last word for now. steve cohen of tennessee, good to see you. >> two memphis kickers and justin great show from memphis. >> you are a happy guy tomorrow. that's for sure. thank you so much. coming up next, the alleged words white house communications director hope hicks may be regretting wixt they could give the appearance of obstruction of justice. ...it starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business, from the largest financial markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyber-attacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. keeping the world of business connected and protected. that's the power of and.

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new developments in the russia investigation, now "the new york times" reporting long-time aide to president trump hope hicks could be facing legal jeopardy in special counsel bob mueller's investigation. a spokesman for the president's legal team, mark corallo is set to be interviewed by mueller's team and he's going to tell them about an undisclosed call that took place between mr. trump and hope hicks after the trump tower meeting between trump advisers

and russia officials. hicks claims that donald trump jr.'s emails about that meeting quote will never get out. so rick, a lawyer for hope hicks responded to "the new york times" report saying in part she never said that. and the idea that hope hicks ever suggested that emails or other documents would be concealed or destroyed is completely false. so what are the chances in your mind this is all some kind of a misunderstanding? and on the opposite end what are the chances we're looking at a case of obstruction? >> well for her sake it better be false. because it is clearly an obstruction of justice. what's going to be important, a couple of important things, one, is you know, this i don't know that this call be corroborated. the president was on this call and hope hicks was on this call and it was, it's alleged that hope hicks said that she would, that these emails would never be seen, intimating she would somehow take steps to get rid of it. what we don't know is the

follow-up. what happened after that call? did she in fact take any steps to make sure those emails would quote never see the light of day. >> joe -- >> joe is my brother. >> that said, hope hicks, joe, is relatively new to the political world. here's a clip of her reflecting on that reality, before the president took office last year. take a listen. >> so i think now being a novice is much more jarring to me than being a novice on a campaign. because there's so many people that are new to it. they're all sort of trying to just figure everything out as it comes to you. i knew very little about politics, obviously. i wasn't expecting to take part in this. certainly not to play the role that i had. >> has hope hicks become a liability? >> well, it depends. clearly if, if what corallo says she says sticks, yeah, then she's a liability.

because there's a case for obstruction. if what she said is true. if her lawyer is able to make what she, to prove the case, prove the point that she didn't say that, then she's not in as much trouble. but this is a challenge. when i worked in the presidential campaigns, certainly the first one i worked in you didn't do anything without campaign counsel. and campaigns are manned oftentimes by young people who are ambitious, who are smart. but they don't always know all the rules. and this is clearly a case where not knowing the rules can clearly hurt you. if corallo is correct and corallo is a serious guy, a former justice department official during the yorj w. bush administration, if what he says sticks, she's got a problem. >> based on her lawyer's statements, there's a good chance of her version of what happened after that june 16 trump tower meeting that will conflict with mark corallo's version. so how does this play out?

>> i think that investigators are going to look at corroborating evidence. they're going to look at emails. it's very difficult to delete an email where an fbi investigator wouldn't be able to obtain it later on if necessary. so i think she has a number of different legal problems. i think that actually this is in line with previous actions that she's taken, though. there's been reporting that after the election she told the press, there were absolutely no contacts and communication with russia. we know that that is absolutely and totally false. i also think that there was reporting recently that the fbi reached out to her after the election around december of 2016, to let her know that russians were trying to communicate with her. in an inappropriate fashion. so the idea that she somehow is nai naive, i know she's young and inexperienced, for the record that's the first time i've ever heard her voice, which is unusual. >> i was thinking the same thing. >> eye never heard her speak before, i think that's very unusual. i think she's naive and

inexperienced, but she's also a grown-up. think when you're in this particular moment and in such an important position if somebody asks you to lie or to delete emails or to somehow cover something up, i think you need to question whether or not you should be there. and i think that she's in a lot of trouble. when we talk about obstruction, we always talk about the president. the president is not the only person who can be charged with obstruction. if t could be a conspiracy to obstruct justice, that involves multiple people, including hope hicks and mule certificate going to figure all of that out. >> two my saturday morning families, good to see you all, thanks, guys. coming up, dueling memos. latest word from the white house on the nunes memo and the chance that the president would approve the release of the democrats' memo. he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs)

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