we're out of time. thanks to michael crowley and betsy woodruff and david jolly. i'm nicolle wallace, "mtp daily" starts right now with katy tur in for chuck. >> i love the monday. you are just across the studio. >> we're going to ino vat -- innovate a walking handoff. >> and then i'll trip and it will go on youtube. and if it is monday, t -- no me, no problem. tonight memo versus memo. democrats want their version out but will the president try to stop it. >> i'm concerned he won't sign off. i'm concerned that he will try to redact or change the memo. >> plus a bipartisan immigration

bill heads to the senate. the president calls it a waste of time but what happens when time runs out on daca. and the dow tanks with the lowest point drop in history, will it change the president's tune about his economic wins. >> you can work hard but if you don't have the right leader setting the right tone in all fairness, and i'm not even saying --ine nonbraggadocios. >> this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. ♪ ♪ good evening. i'm katy tur in new york in for chuck todd. and we're following breaking news at this hour. the house intel committee is meeting behind closed doors right now to vote on whether to release a democratic rebuttal to the controversial republican memo that was made public on friday. president trump said the gop memo totally vindicates his claim that the entire russian investigation is a sham.

it proves no such thing. and you don't have to take my word for it because the president's own justice department isn't even standing behind the republican memo. some republican lawmakers say the memo has no bearing on the russia investigation as well. a democratic memo is going to dispute the republican claim that the fbi unfairly spied on carter page. a former member of the trump campaign. gop leadership won't move to block it from being released but president trump could if he wants to. the white house said they're going to be fair but as they say that, the president is ripping into the top democrats involved in the russia investigation -- arguing they, quote, must be stopped. folks, president trump and his allies have latched on to the argument that the justice department under trump's own appointees is a deep state trying to undermine the president. a democratic memo is not going to change that. the republican memo compiled by devin nunes who worked for the trump transition was a big roar

shack test. he said it cleared him and republicans weren't so sure and democrats said it was a nothing burger on an epic fail and both sides pointed to the rhetoric on the other side as proof that their side was right. now it could be everyone's turn to see what they want to see in the democratic memo. and as they vote at this meeting, democrats are in the awkward spot of arguing that the best way to combat against releasing sensitive fbi information is to release more sensitive fbi information. this right here is how you get trapped in a trump conspiracy theory that goes after an institution like the justice department. as my favorite bands say, you'll never get out of this maze. democrats might not want to go further down a hole. a sensational dossier and the funding behind it, but they might not have much of a choice right now. just a few minutes ago i spoke

with mike quigley of illinois who is a member of the house intel committee and i began by asking him if he was concerned that president trump might be trying to block the democratic memo from being released. >> i do believe the house select committee on intelligence will vote today to have the second memo be released. my concern is that the president of the united states would do something to obstruct this investigation, absolutely. because the best indicator of future activity is past activity. and he's done nothing to facilitate this investigation. and let it go forward freely, so it is a great concern that once his staff reads our memo, and sees how affective it is, he will not want it to see the light of day. >> i use the word block and you use obstruct. why? >> because blocking was when he said there was -- he made up

this bogus wiretapping claim that president obama wiretapped trump tower. his tweets, those kind of things are blocking. directing mr. comey not to go after general flynn after he knew he lied about his involvement with and sanctions against russia and that is obstruction and firing comey and attempting to fire mueller and those are elements of outright obstruction. >> if he says no to releasing this, you believe this is another example of the president obstructing the investigation. >> i think it is a horrible thing to do but i think -- when you are trying to develop a case of whether or not the president obstructed, it goes to his intent and it is never one thing he said or does. it is a pattern of speech and behavior. so besides it being a horrible thing to do, i would like to think his lawyers would press him that this would be just one

more case in the element of obstruction. >> well what would democrats do if he does try to block it or in your words obstruct? >> all we have is public pressure and pressure from republicans. already the speaker of the house and growing number of republicans have said that both memos should be released. they haven't shown a lot of profiles encouraged and this is the time for them to step up. so we would be under the law at the mercy of this president to release the second memo. >> let's talk about the democratic memo. because the democrats big argument for not releasing the nunes memo, the republican memo was that one, it was a partisan document and, two, that it was going to release sensitive or classified information. is the democratic memo a partisan document? >> well, first of all, we asked the justice department to vet our memo to make sure we're not

releasing information that would be inappropriate. the republicans didn't do that. so it is also ten pages, a foot note, extraordinary well documented, i would compare it to master's thesis while the republican memo is the kid didn't read the book, he's on two red bulls in the morning trying to write a report. so i'll let it stand on its own if it gets to see the light of day. >> i'll get back to the partisan aspect of that question in a moment. has the do. o.j. advised some parts of the memo be redacted. >> not to my knowledge. we haven't had the meeting yet today so i'll find out shortly. >> do you see that this is -- this is a partisan memo. but my question is do two wrongs make a right and what are the -- what does the american public trust. if the criticism is that this

was partial and republicans said it did not, just fyi and the democrats are saying that we're going to release our own, are you in affect saying that two wrongs make a right here. that we have to release our own in order to even out the scales? >> we rely on the fbi and the justice department to keep us safe. they're remarks about the first memo are that they have grave concerns about its accuracy. they said it was dangerously reckless in terms of the information that it was revealing. that would not keep us safe. i think to your point, neither memo should be released. the only thing more dangerous than the republican memo being released is that it is out there standing on its own. it needs our second memo to correct the facts. i believe it will go beyond correcting the facts. i believe when people read the second memo it will enhance the credibility of this investigation.

>> a lot of folks looked at the republican memo, the nunes memo, analysts and legal analysts, especially legal analysts and said there was nothing here. this was a big nothing burger to use a frad that is used way too often. why not just let this thing go and move on? >> unfortunately despite what some republicans have said, it does attack the integrity of the fbi and the justice department. and it says a lot of things that are extraordinarily wrong. besides misleading and cherry picking, it is dangerous to let that go out there and not be rebutted. so, look, i would rather be working on the investigation. let's remember what is happened here. the pattern of distraction and deflection, delaying and obstruction continues. we're probably going to waste three or four weeks when we should try to find out what the russians did and how to stop it again. >> what are you doing to stop the russians? you're talking about a bu-- bruh

of distraction but there is a counter memo from the democrats to push back against the prosecutors and what can you tell the american public that you are doing to stop russia from meddling in the 2018 election, did you it is rapidly approaching. >> i'll be there any day they schedule meetings to interview. i'll continue to review documents. there is a lot of work to do. steve bannon of all people is the one that said this is all about money laundering. i was in cypress for a reason a year ago to investigate the issues here involving money laundering. but the republicans have made that very difficult. mr. nunnes has refused subpoenas on key witnesses. so if you are asking what -- we want this process to go forward as quickly as possible. >> what are you looking at in money laundering? are you saying there is money laundering between the russians and the trump campaign? i mean, i asked about russia meddling in the election and you brought up money laundering. where are you going with that?

>> think i think we could talk about all of those things. the russians hacked into board of election and we haven't spent a dime to prevent against. >> that i'm introducing legislation to address that. in terms of money laundering, the trump financial world does an extraordinary amount of business with deutsche bank. deutsche bank was fined $610 million for its role in helping the russians launder $10 billion. so i would just suggest that is the tip of the iceberg. we need to delve in so much deeper. >> congressman, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. and joining me now is john mclaughin, the former acting director of the cia and an nbc news and national security analyst. thank you for being here. you served nearly 30 years at the cia and when you look at what going on right now, what is your takeaway? >> well, katy, it is just extraordinary. of course in those 30 years, i

was subject to congressional oversight. and since i've been away from the cia, i have observed congressional over sight. i've seen it wax and wayne. i've seen it in good times and bad times. but i would say what we see going on here with the house intelligence committee is the worst i've ever seen in terms of failure of oversight, a partisan atmosphere in oversight and so forth. so the fact that we have these dualing memos is really just tragic for the fbi, i think it makes it harder to be an fbi officer, it is tragic for the collection tool that this fisa process represents. the process of getting warrants through the court. and also foreign intelligence services looking at this have to have much less confidence in the united states than they typically would in normal times. so it is a bizarre circumstance. >> do you think the democratic memo should be released?

>> absolutely. and a couple of thoughts on that, as i was listening to congressman quigley, it appears that the democrats have gone through a routine declassification process which i gather the nunes memo did not. that probably means, normally, there are some redactions or things blacked out to protect sources and methods. so i think that is making it harder for the president not to release it. but he's shown a tendency to be able to easily set up self destructive scenarios so if they chose not to release this memo, it would put the speaker of the house in a terrible position, it would put the fbi director in a terrible position. and it would expose what everyone assumed this could be. and when it comes to congressman quigley whether two wrongs make a right, no they don't.

this is a situation we should have never arrived at. we are here and we are where we have because of what representati representative nunes has done with the support of the white house. and therefore to not put the democratic memo out is -- will receive the record muddy, unclear, and very partisan influence way. >> given that we are where we are, that there is this republican memo, there could potentially be the democratic memo, both sides if you wanted to argue, both sides could say these were partisan, even though the democratic memo is rebutting the republican memo, do you think in the interest of full transparency all of the sunlight that you could get on something, that the underlying documents to superintendent the fisa warrants for carter page should be made public. with chafr redactions they need, but to show the public what the fbi did and the intelligence community did in order to justify a fisa warrant on this

american citizen. >> i think that would be a difficult thing to do. i used to sign these occasionally when they had foreign intelligence dimension. we're talking here about something that -- the size of what many people will remember as a phone book often, 50, 60, 70, 100 pages. so by the time you redacted everything, i think it would be a frustrating document for most people to look at. a better alternative might be in the interest of transparency, since this created a lot of confusion i think, is for someone in the intelligence community or in the justice department to put out some kind of statement about exactly what the warrants are and how they are put together and what are the ingredients and examples without detail, and among other things they are in tended to protect the privacy of people who are involved in this em. which is another reason why it is tragic to have this all thrown out on to the table. >> so the remedy would be partially the fbi putting out

more information about how they do it. what about the public -- >> that would be my thought. or -- or there are people involved. there are the director of national intelligence, the head of the fbi, the justice department, probably most importantly. >> what about the public's trust in congress being able to oversee the fbi or the d.o.j. or the intelligence community. >> well i think that is the real -- that is the real tragedy here. these two committees that oversee all of the intelligence agencies, were created in the 1970s, in a circumstance in a way similar to what we're going through now. it was right after watergate in the midst of scandals involving cia and the fbi. these committees were set up with the understanding that the speaker of the house or the majority leader of the senate would pick the very best people, nonpartisan people and the bargain was they get everything

out of the intelligence community in -- in return for make intelligence better to hold the feet to the fire. but to assure the public that there was no -- no games being played here. that when this particular part of our national tool kit was nonpartisan and on the up and up. and so i think the american public must look at this current spectacle and say who is overseeing these agencies and who is in charge? it is not supposed to work this way. >> understatement. john mclaughlin, thank you very much. appreciate your time. >> you bet. ahead, we'll be back to break down this -- the latest twist in the memo drama with the panel and plus wall street whiplash as markets plummet violently. the dow down 1500 points at one point today. we'll go live from cnbc coming up. ♪ one is the only number

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welcome back. what was build as a tax reform speech by president trump in ohio today sounded like a vintage trump rally complete with the attacks on the news media, bragging about the 2016 election, and shout outs to the crowd and of course very strong rhetoric against the democrats. the president suggested at one point that the democrats who did not clap during his state of the union were somehow guilty of a capital crime. >> you have the other side even on positive news, really positive news, like that, they were like, deaf. and unamerican. unamerican. somebody said treasonous. i mean -- yeah, i guess why not. can we call that treason? why not. i mean, they certainly didn't seem to love our country very much. but you look at that and it's really very, very sad.

>> even if he's not serious about treasonous, you can't deny the sentiment behind that. if you don't clap for me, you don't cheer for me you are not on my side and not on the american public side. don't forget in that same state of the union the president called for democrats and republicans to set aside differences for the good of the country and if you could believe it, that address was less than a week ago. more "mtp daily" right after this. e about- i really want to help. i was on my way out of this life. there are patients out there that don't have a lot of time. finally, it was like the sun rose again and i was going to start fighting back now. when those patients come to me and say, "you saved my life...." my life was saved by a two week old targeted therapy drug. that's what really drives me to- to save lives.

so allstate is giving us money back on our bill. well, that seems fair. we didn't use it. wish we got money back on gym memberships. get money back hilarious. with claim-free rewards. switching to allstate is worth it. welcome back. let's bring in tonight's panel. eddy glot the chairman of the center for african-american studies at princeton and susan is a republican strategist and nick comp is a reporter for the new york times and a msnbc contributor. let's talk about intel and then we'll get to the economy. the democrats are trying to push back by releasing their own memo. it is part of the maze you get into when you are dealing with donald trump. he gets you into a conspiracy theory and you end up releasing more sensitive information when

you've just said we shouldn't release any sensitive information. is this going to be enough to counter the narrative or are we already too far down the rabbit hole to where people look and say i can't trust anything anyone is saying in congress right now. >> i don't know if it is enough to correct the record, given how the waters are polluted, to mix that up. something strange has happened. distrust is no longer a kind of one of the background context for political engagement. distrust is become political currency. and so you have parties leveraging distrust for their own political ends. so the republicans, the deep state republicans are leveraging distrust over deep state, the conspiracy theories to achieve -- donald trump is doing it, in order to provide cover for himself. democrats leveraging distrust of what republicans are doing. in order to make political gains. and so what happens to the policy when distrust is the currency of the day. so this is just one of the

examples of a deeper, deeper sickness at the heart of our democracy. >> what does trump have to lose by saying okay to releasing the democratic memo? >> i think it just goes against his nature. this is not a president who is like, oh, sure let me have something that goes out against me because he'll figure the democratic memo is anti-trump and an attack on him or he'll make it sound like that if he's forced to do it. but both of these memos are ridiculous. these memos are a commentary on something that most people have never read and most people will never see. so to what end did we actually go through the declassifying process for the first time in our history to have this information. it is so disappointing. i expect the it from trump but not from speaker ryan. >> what do you think, ryan? if he said no, regardless of whether or not it is a good idea to release the memos, he's

released the republican one and we're -- we're down this rabbit hole and if he says no, does he pay a political price. >> i think he does. his entire frame is that the memo is a critical piece of evidence against the case against him. right. and second, that there is a massive cover-up happening at the fbi and at justice. if he said, no, i'm going to stuff the memo, and it can't be seen, i'm going to keep it secret, that cuts against the narrative he's trying -- i think there is probably some cost to him. not with his partisans but with other peoples. >> but just -- go ahead. >> it doesn't matter because the harm has already been done. to eddie and nick's point, people show left trust in the fbi right now than ever before. >> republicans -- >> republicans. and that was the danger -- that was the horrible thing that trump created. >> and devin nunes said that is the next one and the next one is the state department.

do we have that sound bite? >> are there other memos that will come out? are there other memos. you said this is phase one. >> yeah. so this completes just the fisa a -- abuse portion of our investigation. we are in the middle of what i call phase two of our investigation. which involves other departments, specifically the state department and the involvement that they had in this. >> state department? >> i have nooid -- >> they have an oversight of the state department. >> can we draw a conclusion he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. >> what has the state department done. >> the head of the state department has said he's a moron so that would be a certain thing. but look, obviously he's part of the environment that thinks that the government is full of resistance people who are against the president and they should be investigated. it is preposterous. but the point is, he doesn't have oversight over the state department. and if his hands aren't full with running the house

intelligence committee, maybe speaker ryan should give him his own committee to do his own investigations on something -- and have something else -- >> and what role does the speaker have in this. >> he has every role. he picks the members of the house select committee. >> and what role does he have in the releasing of the memo. should any fingers point to paul ryan. >> he's given nunes the space to do what he's doing. >> he should have shut this down. he should have -- >> let me be clear. there is a moment where libertarians come together and we have should have a debate about the scope of the surveillance of american citizens. we should have adebate around the fisa court. and that should have happened before we renewed it. >> last week. >> some of us to the left of -- pelosi was pushing. so we need to have that debate. but to fold it into the russia investigation it seems is just -- >> and we need independent investigations of the fbi. but real investigations. >> let's talk about the economy.

donald trump was in ohio outside of cincinnati touting his tax plan. this was at the dow was plummeting. half of americans don't have any money in stocks so let's put that aside and talk about the economy. donald trump had a couple of people come on stage and say what they would do with their thousand dollars bonus. one said they would try to start a family and i looked and found out how much does it cost to start a family, to give birth in ohio, it is over $5,000. that is a lot of money. nobody is arguing that a thousand dollars will not help you start saving. but a thousand dollars is not the amount of money you need for -- for just $1,000 from a one time bonus is not the amount of money in the long haul. how is he able to celebrate these one-time $1,000 bonus instead of companies raising wages with the amount of money they got in the tax plan because corporates benefited a lot more than the middle class. >> all they want to talk about is the bonuses.

because the bonuses are good news. people like getting money and for a lot of people a thousand dollars is real money and they are glad to get it. but the way to think about this is how much of the pie are workers getting out of this huge tax cut passed. companies like to give bonuses because they happen once and that is it. what they don't like doing is raising wages or sal riz. i think the way to evaluate is over the next years do we see wage growth and companies pass along the take from this tax cut to the workers and if the answer is no, i suspect that in three or four years people will not remember the thousand dollars they got in this year and they'll wonder how come i haven't had a raise. >> when you go to the department store and you put your clothes there and you are going to buy them and they say do you want to open up a credit card. we'll give you an additional 30% off and you take it and then realize the interest rate on the credit card is 30%.

so you get your thousand dollars up front with the tax cut about when you look at the level of inequality from the tax bill and the cost that will come from this, you will see you pay for it down the line. >> everybody is getting a tax cut. people are getting bonuses. nobody will argue with that but the people getting the most are the very top and the re rich and they are corporations. and the individual tax cuts expire, the corporate tax cuts do not. that is the point of that. eddie, susan and nick, stay with us. we'll come back and talk about that treason thing that trump mentioned a moment ago. ahead, here we go again. the countdown on to another possible government shutdown. can lawmakers reach an immigration deal before thursday, two leads senators say they have a solution. my experience with usaa has been excellent. they always refer to me as master sergeant. they really appreciate the military family, and it really shows. we've got auto insurance, homeowners insurance. had an accident with a vehicle,

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is another government shutdown looming on the horizon? that is ahead. but first we are following a record shattering day on wall street with the market wrap. >> a long awaited selloff triggering a volatile trading day. at one point the dow experienced the biggest point drop in history, plunging more than 1500 points. the dow finishing 1175 points lower and broke below 25,000 dipping into correction territory. the s&p shed 113 points losing 4% in the worst day in six years.

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welcome back to "mtp daily." as yogi berra might say, it is deja vu all over begun. government funding and shutdown looming lawmakers are trying to get a deal done on immigration and once again the white house is not on board. today two senators, john mccain and chris coons unveiled a bipartisan compromise tied to a bill in the house. offering some dreamers the path to citizenship and increases border security but wouldn't fund a border wall. it also doesn't address two other priorities for the white house. family-based legal immigration or the diversity lottery and president trump already indicated this kind of bill is dead on arrival. so what happens from here? let's bring in democratic senator tom carper of delaware.

senator, thank you very much. what are your initial thoughts on the bill? >> you mentioned -- you quoted yogi berra and he said when you come to a fork in the road take it. and we've been at a fork in the road and we need to take it. one of the things missing is leadership from the president. he co-wrote the art of the deal and we need him to foster and make a deal take place. >> well listen -- >> this is not all that hard. it is not all that hard. chuck schumer laid down a week or two ago and said we don't want to build a wall. we think it is foolish and wasteful but we'll willing to put that on the table and the president has a hard time saying yes. >> the white house said this bill is a nonstarter. they said it is even worse than the lindsey graham-durbin deal which they did not like. if it is a nonstarter for the white house and they won't budge, why bother with this

legislation? >> there is three good groups -- bipartisan groups working on something. they are similar in some ways an different in other ways. the stock market -- we've been following the stock market and we've been reporting on it. down 1100 points and last week down 900 points and this is because of a lack of certainty and predictability here in washington and the fear of the budget deficit is now going to scream upward. and we have to pass a bill. c.r. is a terrible way to do a bill. it is demoralize for employees. we need the tuesday president not the thursday president. >> let's talk about the c.r. because thursday the government funding runs out again and there is talk of another c.r. would you not vote for that? >> i'm not interested in voting for c.r. unless i'm convinced it will get to a long-term budget agreement for the balance of the fiscal year to stabilize this and put the kind of priorities -- fund the

priorities for defense and nondefense spending but make sure we stop wasting money in other areas. >> how much does the solving immigration and daca factor in for you in government funding, should it be tied together? >> think people on our side and others, they look at the dreamers and say the morally right thing to do here, these were kids that came over here and they were young and their parents brought them here and grew up here and work here and we have a moral responsibility to them. that is true. having said that, there is an economic imperative here as well. today when folks went to work in this country, there is still 2 or 3 million jobs unfilled. nobody is there to do the job. they don't have the education or the work still. they can't pass a drug test. and one of the reasons why i think the stock market is gyrating is because we're at full employment. and the time when we have all of these jobs, are we going to send 700,000 or 800 people back home to the country they were born and to pass a drug test. why would we do that.

it is economic insanity and the business communet is saying that to the administration and those in congress and we should focus on that economic side as well. >> what about a one-year deal, a t temporary deal that extends daca for just one year or would you be open for that or does it need to be a permanent solution. >> i think permanent solution is much better than a one year deal. the -- some people think the daca dreamer deal is amnesty. it is not. the idea is like a 12 year pathway to get there and folks have to stay out of trouble and like a lot of us do. and they have to stay out of trouble with the law. all kinds of things over the next 12 years. get in line behind other people here before them. i think -- so doing a deal with the dreamers is as much about -- as i said, as much about making sure we have the folks who could do to work tomorrow. >> let's talk about what you would be willing to give up to get a deal. right now the white house and hard-line republicans are on a

very different page than the democrats and even the moderate democrats and the moderate republicans were coming up with bills like the john mccain or coons bill and there is sunlight between the two places and would you be willing to give money for the wall? >> yeah, i think the natural agreement or the deal is one of border security which i think most of us are for. i was the chairman of homeland security a couple of years ago and the idea that there are places along the border where a wall makes sense. not 2,000 or 200 miles -- >> $25 billion like the president wants. >> no. no. i submitted to john corn irn and dick durbin about a half billion dollars of -- everybody said it makes sense. the customs and border patrol says it makes sense. >> but the president doesn't say that and he is the one that signs this legislation, if can could get through the senate and the house. so you are talking about a different number than the president. let's talk about the other two

things on the president's wish list and you tell me if they are nonstarters. to end china migrati-- chain mi what they call it. would you be willing to end that. >> i'm not prepared to do that. should we talk about it? sure. i think the natural trade is border security for the dreamers and -- the border security doesn't have to cost 15 or $20 billion could cost less and the president -- what chuck schumer said, mr. president, we're willing to authorize a wall and we're willing to start up with guaranteed funding and get started with it. i think that is a good offer. it is an honest officer. >> what about the visa lottery. >> i'm not going to stand here on television and negotiate the deal. we have folks trying to negotiate a deal. i think the key -- i served as governor of delaware for 12 years and you have a point of time for negotiations in a state and point of time of negotiations for a country.

it is very helpful. and be the honest broker. this president can do this. he worked -- he co-wrote the book. we need that president to show up and help make this deal. >> but let's see because there is daylight between the two plans. senator, thank you for being here. we appreciate your time. >> thank you, katy. and coming up, we'll talk about the comment from president trump calling the democrats reactions of the state of the union treasonous. plus the philadelphia eagles fly into victory and their fans fly into sheer chaos.

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shh-h-h-h! what's in your wallet? man: shh-h-h! welcome back. the city of brotherly love is definitely feeling the love after super bowl sunday. the philadelphia eagles stunned the new england patriots last night winning 41-33. this is broad street, the main drag in town where thousands of fans flocked to celebrate the big victory. want to see how they did it. they climbed on to a hotel awning until it and they came crashing down. we believe everyone is okay. we hope so. these fans flipped over a car that was parked nearby. others yanked down traffic lights and smashed them to smithereens. philly just announced it will hold a parade for the birds coming up this thursday. hopefully by then the city will be able to clean up from all of the aftermath of last night.

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welcome back. it is time for "the lid", eddie and susan and nick are here. he. earlier in the show we showed the president calling democrats who did not support hem duriim the state of the union, didn't clap for him treasonous. >> donald trump has no real commitment to democracy. >> i keep going back to this moment from the campaign. it was december 21st, 2015, and he was on stage in grand rapids, michigan. and he says everybody who goes e against us, it's x, x, x, anybody who doesn't cheer for him isn't on his team and is not american. >> he has an ability to distinguish between himself and the institutions of our country. he thinks he is the state.

it's something he can't quite figure out as president. if the standards he would impose were imposed by barack obama by him, he'd be in jail. he'd be a political dissident, he would if barack obama felt this way about the criticism of the president. >> look at football when he talks about football players kneeling. it's un-american as well. not solutialuting the flag. is it about the flag? the anthem? because's taking some personal offense to that, it is something criticizing him. >> when it comes to that, i think he enjoys being in the pop culture environment. i think it's where he feels he's getting the most bang for his buck on his message if you will. it's when he reaches out more to his base and does it, again, very controversial issues. but just to get back to what nick said, i keep thinking that donald trump thinks that the state is there to serve him. he doesn't understand this is

public service, and he is there to serve all of us. >> how does it help in negotiations when you're calling the other side treasonous? >> that's not exactly what i would do when you're facing a government shutdown later this week. >> donald trump is calling s-hole countries, trashing democrats on twitter, blah, blah, blah, blah, on and on and on and on. >> and he gets away with it, and it's really frustrating. >> and congress is despite all that trying to figure out a way to pass legislation. is he noise to everybody, including democrats? >> the difference in the health care debate when he ended up calling the house version mean and then he kind of took a back seat on the tax cuts, that's where they like him. they like him not speaking so they can negotiate and get done what needs to get done. >> what happens when the president is just noise? >> in some instances he's noise and provides cover when people are pursuing their ideological

agendas. so for example i'm thinking about this in relation to daca. there's a lot of noise coming out of the white house with regards to the dreamers. democrats, if they fold and allow the steve miller wing of the white house to in effect overturn how we think of immigration. >> why do you say steve miller and not donald trump wing? >> it's donald trump, absolutely right. if he's going to upend legal immigration on the backs of dreamers, and they're going to fold, they're going to fold while they're point being are noise of trump. they're going to pay in 2018. >> he has no values. he campaigned saying he wants to build the wall.

he's been hard-line immigration for quite a while. it's one of the things he's stuck to regardless of everything else. he has been hard-line about his desire for that wall. he fluctuates on whether he want it is to be a cyber wall or fence here and there, but he wants a wall. he doesn't want any, he wants to get rid of, deport illegal immigrants. he's sort of soft on daca, but not really. not his actions. >> is it because he feels strongly about it or did he know was a great way to campaign issue and something to run on. he has not been an immigration enthusiast for decades. >> so he's campaigning for 2020 right now. >> i don't think so. you can look back decades to the '80s and see him voicing similar views on trade. >> trade is different. >> in this era, he sees a trade and immigration as two sides of the same coin. with trade, it's people taking from us, or with immigration

it's people coming to the country and taking from us. >> appreciate your time. thank you. what is not my area of expertise whatsoever. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information

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in case you missed it, this is not jeopardy, but here's daily double anyway. this organized sport draw rabid excitement from millions of fans and deafening silence from

bewildered contess tasttants. any guesses? it was football. they showed off their complete lack of football knowledge by standing there quietly and waiting for it to be over. >> option play? ryan? >> football, 400. >> i can fell you gutell you gu football fans. tom landry perfected the shotgun formation with this team. >> dallas cowboys. >> do you think we should go to commercial? fair catch. let's look at the thousand dollar clue just for the fun of it. if you guys ring in and get this one i will die. >> remember players, always answer in the form of words. that's all for tonight. chuck is back tomorrow. for more mtp daily, "the beat"

with ari melber is next. alex trebek is cold. >> he's cold and it made me wish for the will farrell alex trebek. >> the pen is mightier. >> i have a cold. i forgot to take my cough drop out. i think i'll do it now while you're on camera. >> an album cover also a good category, therapists. >> i don't know, i lost, what are you talking about? >> our viewers know, and they will mock you endlessly on twitter. >> they do that anyway. thank you for the talk. let me tell you, my viewers, we're chasing two developments, the first, the market cratering today. the second, new clues about where bob mueller's russia probe is heading, some of them pretty interesting. we start with the dow falling 4.6% today, tha